Wisdom from the Frontlines of Emotional and Spiritual Guidance

Imagine being on the front line of emotional warfare every day, dealing with addictive emotional bleeding, clerical burnout and needy group members—all while trying to maintain your own mental health. That's the reality of being a spiritual advisor, and we are here to share our experiences, advice, and a few humorous anecdotes. 

We dive deep into the art of setting boundaries to avoid becoming someone's emotional dumping ground; recognizing when someone is draining your energy and addressing it with compassion and firmness. We shed light on the importance of nurturing potential and identifying the future members of the craft. Shifting gears toward the end, we explore the clergy's role in mental health, discussing how to safeguard against emotional burnout, keeping personal emotions in check whilst serving others, and focusing on mental health protection. Hear us ponder on the motto "Do no Harm, Take no Shit". This candid conversation is filled with enlightening insights, don't miss out!

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:25

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Lady Alba and Lord Knight.

Speaker 2 0:33

So as Priest and Priestesses we often give advice yes, alright, but there is a problem in doing this, and that is that we wind up getting everybody's emotional baggage. So how do we prevent from being someone's emotional tampon?

Speaker 3 0:53

Well, so the first thing we have to address is that there is yes, priest and Priestesses do deal with a lot of different subjects, things, problems, complaints, right that people bring to them, but here we're talking about emotional bleeding, or emotional hemorrhaging, which, first of all, is addictive. Yes, because anyone who's had a good vent and felt better afterwards, yes, you become dependent on that process and so, as priests and priestesses, because we get it on an even more raw, more open level from people, sometimes, yes, it feels like they're hemorrhaging all over you, and I will never forget. Lady.

Speaker 3 1:44

Maya, right years ago, telling me just that you are not an emotional tampon, that is not your job, is not to stop the bleeding. No, which admittedly right. It's a fucked up thing to say, because you go if someone's bleeding out. I want to stop the bleeding, I but, but again we have to make that distinction emotional, not physical. No one is actually dying.

Speaker 2 2:14

No.

Speaker 3 2:15

And that's the hard thing. When we see someone in distress, when we see someone in an emotionally or mentally compromised place, we want to fix, we want to stop it, we want to help it, we want to yeah we want to fix it. But what are we sacrificing to do so and what does it do to us?

Speaker 2 2:38

And at what point does anybody actually believe we can fix other people's problems? And there's that.

Speaker 3 2:47

Clergeical burnout is very real. Oh God, yes, I've taken sabbaticals. I know many other priestesses who have taken sabbaticals.

Speaker 1 2:57

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 3 2:58

I've known more than a few priests who have taken sabbaticals. I don't think you ever have no, not technically.

Speaker 2 3:06

Not technically.

Speaker 3 3:07

No, you had a move. It's different. You had a physical move, that kind of forced the sabbatical, but it's not really the same thing. But yeah, there's times where we just have to go OK, any break. It's too much and usually when that happens it's yeah, because we're trying to sop up a blood bath and we're getting nowhere.

Speaker 2 3:31

Because we believe people have the ability to fix their own problems, because they are the source of their problems.

Speaker 3 3:40

Yes, and we're on the other side of the coin, right, because we are spiritual advisors and we feel responsible for someone's spiritual growth.

Speaker 2 3:55

Well, we jokingly do this sort of. Sometimes. We refer to our Neophyte, sometimes between me and you, as our kids. Yes, but they are, because we think of them like this. They need our help. They need our guidance.

Speaker 3 4:10

We are considered spiritual mothers and fathers and throughout the community, I've never met anyone who's not referred to their initiates, their Neophytes, as their kids. Because that is what you're doing You're giving guidance and you're helping this person on this path. Now, unlike rearing an actual child right, we have to continuously remind ourselves these are adults.

Speaker 2 4:43

These are adults.

Speaker 3 4:44

They have gotten this far in life without us. We do not suddenly have to, yeah, step in and fix all the things for them. This is great, because this happened to me not that long ago. A friend of mine was sort of bearing his soul. He was saying something that it felt disparaging. It felt like he was kind of shitting on himself and I went no, no, no, don't say it, right. So immediately I'm like trying to sue that right, the mommy comes out. You got it like no, don't do that, Don't say that. And oh, it was such a brilliant moment. He stopped me and he said it is okay to let me feel my feelings and not feel responsible for them, or like you have to do anything. And I went you asshole, you just priested me and you're not even a pagan, but it was a brilliant moment. It really was.

Speaker 3 5:50

And he, really he was like you don't have to do anything. He's like I am allowed to feel these things, to say these things, to express these things, and I expect nothing from you in return other than to just hear me. And I went wow, that's a very emotionally intelligent human. Now the problem is sometimes, when we're dealing with the kids, they don't all think that way, no. So they come to us with an expectation of we Fix, we Fix.

Speaker 2 6:27

Well, you see, but we don't really, let's get back to this, we don't fix, okay. I remember this priestess who came to my house one time. All right, she's this lovely woman, lover to death.

Speaker 3 6:41

All right, she says this. He's talking about me.

Speaker 2 6:43

By the way, this is pretty obvious With her boyfriend at the time in which they proceed to sit here and we go through some counseling stuff, right? All right. Now this wasn't that bad. Y'all left, y'all were happy, right. But it was basically like marriage counseling.

Speaker 3 7:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:01

And then, a couple of days later, you come back for your class in which I sit here. Start to explain to you. This is how we counsel. This is what we do, and I don't fix your problems, if you've noticed. All I ask you is how did that make you feel? Why did that make you feel that way? Right, I never actually did anything, and when I told you I didn't fix anybody's problems, you look like you were going to if you had a dagger on you. Well, yes, you were going to stab me.

Speaker 3 7:27

Because there's an irony right that we are. Most people, most congregants, are so removed from the clergy. It's almost what we've been taught to believe that clergy does that, and no, they don't. Most clergy's only job is to propose a different way of thinking, a different viewpoint, or to really get you to accept your own feelings I'm the subject, yeah, and to stop fighting yourself, and that's about it. You can almost take God out of the equation and go. Yes, it's a minor form of psychotherapy. Are we psychotherapists? Absolutely not, but it is a similar process. It's also how group therapy works, right? Aa, na, any of the yeah, any of those, any support group of any kind. That's the group collective. The difference is we aren't always operating as a group. A priest or a priestess might be operating independently.

Speaker 2 8:38

Right.

Speaker 3 8:40

And that's the rough part, because there can be one of us and 20 of them.

Speaker 2 8:46

Oh God.

Speaker 3 8:47

Maybe more.

Boundaries and Needy Group Members

Speaker 2 8:48

Maybe more yeah. And I will say, we know those elders who get ran by everybody, everybody's temples.

Speaker 3 8:57

I will say if you, if you are clergy and your group is too large, deal with it. There's a reason why many, many covens cap their numbers at 13. Because 13 is about all you can reasonably juggle. If you are by yourself, yes, and even that's a lot Pushing it.

Speaker 2 9:20

Yeah, that's pushing.

Speaker 3 9:23

Because until you get to a place where, yes, you have other clergy that have gone through the ranks and you know you have peers in that whole, your phone will never stop ringing and your emails will never say it's constant and it can feel like you're being suffocated by other people's stuff and, of course, because we feel right, we dwell on it, we think about it, we, we ruminate on it. It's hard, it's hard to separate.

Speaker 2 9:57

It is.

Speaker 3 9:59

But it is two things that are critical, and you have to put the old metaphor right You've got to put your oxygen mask on first.

Speaker 2 10:09

Right Before helping anyone yeah.

Speaker 3 10:12

You are no good to them If you yourself are not in a good place. So if you are the one who needs some guidance, then, god damn it, go get off your ass, tuck your tail right, put the ego aside and make the phone calls and do what you need to do to reach out. I've had to do it many times where I have called other priestesses and I have literally started the conversation with the priestess needs a priestess? And they go ah, okay, because they know exactly what I'm asking them in that moment and I'm saying do not treat me like another third, do not treat me like no, no, I need you to treat me like I am A neophyte or a first degree right now. Right, dumb it down and work with me, you know.

Speaker 2 11:02

You know, I have my, because, again, most people don't understand it, me and you, we, high priest and priestesses, have their own issues. Oh God, yes, on top of all of this, jesus.

Speaker 3 11:12

That we have to deal with, and it's. It is funny because we do. Admittedly, we put our shit aside, yes, but that also is I mean, it's a mantra for many groups it's the good of the collective, not the benefit of the one. So we have to put our own crap aside, whatever it might be, and proceed with a group activity ritual, whatever it might be, with that knowledge in mind that whatever is happening with us is not that important right now. No. So, yes, there's many times where we've had Coven members come in and go hey, how is it Great, great, everything's so great, it's fine, and we are lying through our teeth and that's okay.

Speaker 2 12:04

I would put it to you this way you might have caught on before other people did. But there were times we would do ritual at our place and you could tell me and Lord Oswin had just had a fight before everybody got there. Oh sure, but to your face I don't know. Everything's fine? No, because we're still humans.

Speaker 3 12:22

I mean, it happens. I used to get so worked up when I first was running the group. I never got to hive right. I never did that technique. I could, but I haven't had a reason to, but I never really got to hive. When you moved geographically, I took over the existing temple and continued to run it in your absence, as you were kind of settling in to your new life and and so we appreciate you all being so humble. Thank you, lord Oswin. Bye. Now, I used to be so wound up about all the minutiae and little things that I remember right being drilled into me as a Neophyte in a first. Or the floor is clean, is everything vacuumed, is you know? Or the litterbox is clean, does the dog stink? I mean you like it was all. Is everything exactly where it needs to be, as it should be? Is it perfect?

Speaker 2 13:27

Now right, many, many, many, many, many years later, Let me say thank the gods she art this lesson.

Speaker 3 13:36

Yeah for sure. Many, many years later. Yeah, I mean, do I keep my home presentable anyway? Right, I don't really give a shit as much anymore, do I care? Yes, but am I going to stress myself out and fret and freak out about all the little things? No, because the irony of why that was drilled into us at first is because that is the service component of being a first degree. Is that if they have the time, the ability and the wherewithal, they can volunteer to come do some of those things. If they failed to do so, I get to just shrug my shoulders and go, okay, yeah, no it, yeah, it's. Yeah, the whatever room is a little my bedroom. Right, it's a little messy because I didn't get to put on my laundry away. Okay, it is what it is right, I mean with.

Speaker 2 14:35

That said, though, it's not like people are in your bedroom.

Speaker 3 14:38

No, and I mean, and I mean sure you know you clean up but it's just not making is insane and effort anymore Not. And I think that part of that definitely frees us up emotionally, spiritually, to be in a better place to assist, to assist, but that, that bleeding component, man it some in some people inside of a group.

Speaker 3 15:09

Well, they take up more time than others yeah and sometimes they're taking up more time because you see the potential in that person and you realize that their future in craft maybe more involved or invested than others. Yes, yes literally, you're Basically going. I'm looking down the barrel at a third, yeah, some point in the future this person has that capability.

Speaker 2 15:38

I want to nurture it. Well again. What most people don't understand is we're always hunting for a replacement.

Speaker 3 15:42

Well yeah, Versus Right, right, the individual who really truly is just a little needy, Maybe a lot needy.

Speaker 2 15:53

Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:54

Yeah, and it's. It's okay to set boundaries. That's, to me, the biggest way to stop this might wind up being a tampon.

Speaker 2 16:05

This might start a different conversation. All right, not trying to, but how do we stop that? How do we stop that member from being that person?

Speaker 3 16:15

so to me again, that's, that's boundary setting. I think it's an understanding of if they're Taking up too many resources or eating up too much of your time or taking too many liberties you really have to Without. I prefer to do it without singling them out right. Address it to the group about these are my office hours, now, or this is when I'm available for this sort of thing. I you know, guys, you can't text me at all hours of the day and night because my phone is constantly going and it's stressing me out. It's creating a boundary Game with all that said.

Speaker 2 16:59

There's a difference between sitting there, going okay if you have a legitimate.

Speaker 3 17:02

Merging sure, sure, sure, sure, but yeah, but under normal circumstances, yeah versus. I just broke a nail and and sometimes it's also directing people in a new way to approach it. You know, instead of calling me every single time, start putting it in a journal.

Speaker 3 17:20

Mm-hmm and once a month we will sit down and we will address the things that are still occupying space in your mind, right, because those are the most important ones, and you start to, yeah, wean them off of some of that. But it can. It can be hard, and I and I think the worst part is when you were faced with the decision of having to Let somebody go. Right, yeah, you're not, it's not a firing. It's a very strange thing when we have to do it, but it's basically letting someone know that the Group is no longer a fit for them, right, and or vice versa.

Speaker 2 18:05

I mean that stuff does happen, yeah.

Speaker 3 18:10

Yeah, and if someone is is just that much of a vampire, you may have to make that decision you know, I mean I'm sorry when, the, when the same people sort taking up everybody's ritual time and and we've got time and all this other stuff.

Speaker 2 18:25

Mm-hmm, you have to sit there and go. No, yeah, everybody has to get.

Speaker 3 18:30

Yep, disruptors are very real, though, and it's very, yeah, it's very real to have a me me, me, me me kind of person. I mean, I remember, you know, lady Maya just going salt bath, and just you know, because it was like you need to go ground, you are. Untethered. You are floating around as you like, go ground your shit and leave it outside, but some people never quite get the hang of that. No, some people don't.

Speaker 3 19:00

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of sad and it's it's in its frustrating, but we it's one of those things we have to accept. Yeah, it's always been a really fascinating topic of what does it, and I mean this really is truly the priesthood in action, right?

Speaker 2 19:21

I mean because I mean this is what we do. Yeah, I mean it's we're supposed to be there and it's we're supposed to be the craft of the wise. You know, people are supposed to come to us for advice.

Speaker 3 19:34

But sometimes it's just too much, it's just too much, or you feel like you're saying the same thing over and over.

Speaker 2 19:43

And the same person to the same person, that it and I'll admit that, yeah, when they're coming in, it's the same problem as last week, as the week before, as the, and we're not moving on.

Speaker 3 19:55

Have you ever advised that someone actually go seek counseling? Oh God side of you.

Speaker 2 20:01

Yes by the fact where we keep a list local, yeah, therapist and some by scales, other people don't yeah, which I probably need to go get that updated.

Speaker 3 20:13

But Hmm, easy enough, but yeah, it's. Sometimes it really is beyond us and someone needs that, and Other times we can partner people.

Speaker 2 20:27

I think that's because people don't understand. Our advice is spiritual advice, right? Not mental advice, right? So hence the reason why, in the world, we should be Mm-hmm sending people to, yeah, seek out therapy when necessary if you feel like you are suddenly acting as an armchair therapist.

Speaker 3 20:47

No, it's. It's time to to accept that that's not your area of expertise and call in a pro. I've also I've also partnered people before meaning almost like, almost like mini sponsorships, like going this person is dealing with X. Well, this person over here also dealt with that previously. They've done a good job with it. Let me see if I can buddy them up right, and sometimes that works out really this this really works out good for alcoholics anonymous.

Speaker 2 21:25

So this, this because it gives somebody, it gives them somebody in the temple that understands. Absolutely what they've been through and some of their experience and some of their experience and they also understand the religion, and you ain't got to go back and do that. Mm-hmm cuz I remember I went. When I went to go see a therapy, I always found it more aggravating because I wound up spending more time trying to explain to them how my religion works.

Speaker 3 21:46

So they could be give me better therapy see, ironically, I think for me therapy has been amazing. I'm a better priestess because of therapy, right, but what? What I do find funny in what you just said is it's kind of that I Just feel like a lot of people when they think about their clerical duties or what they're actually going to be doing versus what happens right, it can be a little bit of a surprise. But Okay, here's the real question I'm getting at. I I have heard other members of the clergy not in our church, but other members talk about warding themselves from everyone else in the group.

Speaker 2 22:43

Right.

Speaker 3 22:44

What's your thought on that?

Speaker 2 22:49

I can understand the thought behind it, because you, when you're sitting there and you're working with people like this constantly, and all this and they have issues. Real issues not.

Speaker 3 23:03

Yes.

Speaker 2 23:04

Alright, it can tend to rub off on you. I mean again, clergy, we're not therapists.

Speaker 3 23:12

Yeah, my only concern there is if you're doing it in ritual space, you, yeah, you're warding yourself from them, but you've cut yourself off, yeah, and that is kind of messed up, because how can you be spiritually accountable and open and vulnerable in those moments if you're locking yourself down?

Speaker 2 23:42

If you're standing there in a suit of armor.

Speaker 3 23:43

Right, yeah To not to basically deflect everything, everything else. So that's, that's dicey. I could see maybe doing it one on one. I can see it one on one.

Speaker 2 23:56

Because, again, that would be. My only concern is, yeah, taking that in or being exposed to that energy for too long Might make you a little bit more depressed.

Speaker 3 24:07

Might make you. It can influence, sure, it can influence. Yeah, their emotions can rub off. There's no doubt about that. You know it does happen.

Speaker 2 24:15

I mean, don't get me wrong, I still believe one's will determines how they're gonna act but, yeah, well, I just yeah.

Speaker 3 24:26

I think the other thing is clergy would would benefit greatly from doing a little bit of research into what exactly therapists and psychiatrists and people in the mental health fields do to not be plagued by their work Right and to, yes, to be able to put it down at the end of the day and walk away and not have it, not let it affect you.

Speaker 2 24:56

Yeah, I mean, I've worked at a hospital and one of the one of the one of the places that one of the areas I had to manage was the psychiatric floor.

Speaker 3 25:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:06

Now, while I might not have talked to many patients, but talking to some of the stuff I've heard from the nurses rough there. These people have problems.

Speaker 3 25:15

One of my favorite, favorite mottos. It comes from the psychiatric nursing community Do no harm, Take no shit. I used to have it on a t-shirt, but literally it's the motto of psych nurses, because that's how they have to operate. They're like I will do anything to prevent my patients from undergoing harm, but at the same time I'm not going to put up with a bunch of crap. And psych nurses, man, they are tough as nails.

Speaker 2 25:46

Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 25:48

But when they go home they let it go. And that's an amazing skill, because, man, these people see some shit.

Speaker 2 25:57

Well, I mean cops have to do the same thing.

Speaker 3 26:00

True, they're around people, that are not the most nice as people.

Speaker 2 26:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and then not being able to not taking that home.

Speaker 3 26:10

It's rough. It's rough. It's just like if you've ever been in a relationship that wasn't you know like you got your heart broken and then the next person you got where you took it all out on them right you know you kind of write like they became the target, because I mean, I'm just being honest here, people do it Right, it's a. It's a very common thing when you, you, you, it's sort of the same, it's, it's like how do I break down?

Speaker 3 26:37

that bleed over, right? So that am I. I'm not letting what has I've seen or what I've been through start to bounce off me on to other people. Yeah, it's kind of wild, but yeah, no, we are not tampons. It's not our job to stop the bleeding. It's not our job to soak it all up.

Speaker 2 26:57

It's not our job to fix it. No, it is our job to guide.

Speaker 3 27:01

Yeah, Once in a blue moon. I will say it once in a blue moon. Yep, we're putting on a tourniquet for somebody, but it is literally, it's the emotional equivalent of any year Right. This is not a permanent fix. This is to keep you stable right now, and tomorrow we're bringing in professionals. Yeah, we're bringing in real help, exactly.

Speaker 2 27:27

We're blowing this all up.

Speaker 3 27:28

It's going to be all over the place. Yeah, because we have to know our own limits if we are going to be effective. And it's what I find interesting. And I think that there is a different like, as we, as clergy ages to we become more humble because we've seen more of it, we've experienced it, you know, and every now and then we meet the new, very new priest or priestess, very newly titled, and they're we're like oh, you haven't seen it yet?

Speaker 2 27:59

Oh, it hasn't happened.

Speaker 3 28:00

It's coming. Oh, I can't wait.

Speaker 2 28:02

Don't you worry, I can't wait for that first time, yeah.

Speaker 3 28:04

Yeah, they're just there again A little bit. A little bit too much ego, a little bit of just there, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:12

I mean, listen, man, I not like you very, haven't ever sat there going. I give her two weeks and I'll be getting a phone call. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. But sometimes that's what we have to do.

Speaker 3 28:26

That is, ironically, part of it, and I think when you and I especially I won't speak for others, but when you and I look at somebody and go, you're a witch, you figure it out, even though it seems a little harsh. That's basically what we're saying to them yes, yeah, we're putting it back in their corner and going you have the skills, you have what you need.

Speaker 2 28:48

We have given you so many classes and all this. We have taught you all this stuff. Use these tools Right, that's what you have them for. Use these tools first.

Speaker 3 28:56

If that doesn't work, then come back to me.

Speaker 2 28:59

But ironically, yeah, I'd say almost 100% of the time the tools work, the tools work and then, the majority of the times, this is what winds up happening is that first person comes over to your house and you go. Well, have you tried these tools? They look at you go oh, so I just came over here and wasted.

Speaker 3 29:17

Yes, yes, you did, because I'm going to send you right back out.

Speaker 2 29:19

I'm going to send you right back out.

Speaker 3 29:21

Now, that being said, if you are clergy and you are not investing time into those sorts of classes, into what I'm going to call problem solving and life counseling methods, then, yeah, you got a problem on your hands.

Speaker 2 29:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3 29:40

Because, of course, you're inundated. These people don't have a direction.

Speaker 2 29:45

No, and you have. No. You've never been taught any skills or anything to deal with this.

Speaker 3 29:50

Which means now is an excellent time to start looking at guest speakers and other priests and priestesses, or even somebody from outside of the pagan community, to start imparting this knowledge, and then you'll start to see a big difference Now let me ask this question when you do get that phone call, when you do get the and it is a serious phone call, yeah, someone's about to hurt themselves.

Speaker 1 30:15

Right, somebody has Right.

Speaker 2 30:18

Really bad feelings. Whatever what that phone rings, you answer it, you say hello, what? What follows next? For for us as priests and priestesses?

Speaker 3 30:29

If it's, if it's that extreme, it really becomes about stabilization. In that moment we, we are, even though it's an for many groups again, I think it's an unwritten rule. I see it the same way that many medical professionals do. Teachers, government workers we are are mandatory reporters. Right, we have to be. We cannot ignore a member of the congregation, right, even vitally, making a threat to harm themselves or harm someone else or anything.

Speaker 3 31:11

No, so we have to, yes, inquire, ask the right questions, do what we can to try to stabilize that situation. But beyond that, again, it may very well be calling law enforcement for a wellness check or, you know, inquiring at a local hospital, because that is yeah, that's our number one responsibility.

Speaker 2 31:35

Yeah, I mean, and again, as priests and priestesses, both of us understand there can be some heat in us doing these from certain family members and stuff that might not understand what's going on. Sure, so again, you, you, you're sticking your nose out there and I'm trying to warn people. If you're doing this, you know you need to kind of look at all the consequences of what you're doing Absolutely, but normally I think.

Speaker 3 31:59

I think for most situations, it is allowing that person to express themselves, allowing them to vent, to feel the feelings, to get through things and not necessarily to again to fix it, to judge, to do anything, just to hear it, To to be an ear and then, depending on the severity of the situation it is doing, check ins.

Speaker 2 32:24

I need you to call me.

Speaker 3 32:26

Right In an hour. I need you to call me in four hours. I need you to call me tomorrow morning first thing. But it's having a plan in place, right, right, because if I don't hear from you tomorrow morning, then a wellness check is required.

Speaker 2 32:41

Right, because then we're we got a process we're going to go through, yes, and again we're going to go through. We're also sitting here and encouraging these people. No, you need to seek out therapy, you need to talk to somebody, but sides, just me.

Speaker 3 32:53

Yeah, I I've met a few potential neophytes over the years that I have had to, unfortunately, say to them and I, I, one girl, I mean my Lord, she broke my heart. I still remember her. I will never forget her. I had to. She was so young and I had to say I really think that you need a bit more time In therapy and to deal with, you know, some of some of the things that you're going through, some of the issues that you're having, before starting to take classes, before pursuing this, because I don't quite think you're stable enough yet for that. You're getting there, right, you know, but you're not where I'd like you to be. And oh, my goodness, I mean, she was a baby, she was, you know, 18, 19 years old. She was just making, I mean, oh, but, because I felt like I was breaking her spirit in that moment. But I know, in the grand scheme of things, it was probably the better, the right decision.

Speaker 2 34:04

The right For her. Yeah, this for the future, to make a better priestess.

Speaker 3 34:10

Or to just make for a better person.

Speaker 2 34:12

You know and a more stable, more well rounded, human.

Speaker 3 34:16

I mean she? Yeah, she was. She was so young and dealing with so much trauma that I didn't want craft to become a replacement for doing the other work that she needed to do.

Speaker 2 34:31

That's sense, yeah, and I can see where in the world people would use this religion to put off Any religion any religion has that ability.

Speaker 3 34:39

We can. We can hide behind God very easily which is, you know, it's good. I mean the God singular plural. However, you want to write crouching behind them. Super easy, super easy, mm hmm.

Speaker 2 34:54

I think I'm about a coffee.

Speaker 3 34:55

Okay, let's get some more.

Speaker 1 34:58

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit. Walk with me till morning.