In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust

In this episode, we are discussing what is perfect love and perfect trust and why it is so important in what we do as witches. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to I can copy talk a traditional working podcast or we will discuss topics effect and I can make traditional work effective topics we did not effect from my medical hands by degrees and first deployment.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. I'm Keegan with Lord Knight, and our subject from the magical hat is in perfect love and perfect trust.

unknown 0:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

How are you today?

SPEAKER_03 0:52

As good as you are, I think.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

There you go with a bad attitude. So what would you like to know about perfect love and perfect trust?

SPEAKER_03 1:03

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

It means a lot of things to different people.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

What does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:11

It means you actually, when you're entering into ritual space, that you honestly and truly trust these people. Not only with your life, but with your spiritual and emotional well-being. That if by chance you're around one of these people in your spiritual family or coven or whatever you want to call it, and nobody else is around, that if you looked at them and said, Oh, by the way, uh, as you're dying.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

As you're dying, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

As you're dying, look at them and go, hey, there's actually a billion dollars in this account that I've set aside for the kids. Make sure they get it. And nobody else. You wouldn't be doubting your decision to ask this person to do something.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

It does. It does to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Because if you don't have that love and trust in circle, how in the world are you going to grow spiritually? If you're not relaxed, to the point to where you can actually be yourself.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Well, that's the trust part.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yes. You know that no matter what in the world you say, that none of these people are going to judge you or I don't want to say make fun, but won't be going to go spread your business somewhere else.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Because there are some rituals where we sometimes reveal very private things about ourselves to each other. Things we might not want other people to know. We have a custom, especially when we're talking about our kids, and children that are, you know, I I don't want to say members, but are technically part of temple via their parents.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

To where we choose hidden names for these kids. And okay, probably everybody that's listening to this don't know this, but you are very protec uh very protective over your children.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Yes, yes, I am.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

And most people in temple are very protective over your kids.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

And if something were to happen to you where you were hospitalized or something, and your husband didn't want to leave your side and you really wanted your me and your high priestess there, that we could turn around and look at another member of Temple saying, Hey, you need to go get the kids.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

If they weren't there. Well, that member of Temple could actually go to these kids very easily say this name to them.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Their hidden name.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Their hidden name to them. And you've already taught, I know one of your kids that if you hear this name by certain people that they don't know, they should be they automatically know you should be able to trust this person 100%.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Because I'm not going to tell anybody this name that I don't trust.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

100%.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

100%. And again, this name's not used outside of temple or in general public. So it's not a quote unquote nickname.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

It's just a name. But again, we're still back to in rituals, sometimes we do reveal certain things, aspects of ourselves that most people wouldn't I don't want to say understand or know about us, but it's very personal. And if you don't have that perfect love and perfect trust, how can you do that?

SPEAKER_03 5:14

You can't.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

You can't. Well go ahead. What I was gonna say is where a lot of that I mean, that's that perfect trust. So what's that perfect love?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

What is the perfect love?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, I'm I'm I'm asking you, what do you think it would mean? Or what does what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 5:37

You know, I get so hung up on the perfect trust, I kind of mix the two together and I don't see that big of a difference between the two. Personally. Because I can't love you if I don't trust you. And I can't trust you unless I love you, unless there's some degree of love there.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Well, that perfect love to me is loving someone enough to put their happiness above you, regardless if it hurts you.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

I'm looking it up.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Well, what I mean by that is basically you would be happy as long as those other people are happy and fulfilled. So give you an example. You and your husband, y'all care about each other and all that, but let's decide let's say y'all decide for whatever reason to separate.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

For you, that perfect love for your husband would be okay, if him leaving me would make him happier and more fulfilled than what he is now, that itself would make me happy.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Because I mean, let's be honest, when we look at our viewpoint of love, is love can be one of the most insidious of all the emotions. You hear throughout time and time again the phrase, ooh, no, it's the love of money that's the worst thing in the world.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

It's the love of drugs, it's the love of power. Right?

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

What do all these phrases have in common?

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Love.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Love. Everybody concentrates on the other part, like the money or the power or whatever, but it's the love. Love is so insidious if you care about something, you might not want to let it go. You might want more of it, to where it becomes this overwhelming force in your life. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

It does.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

From love, we get what jealousy, anger, envy, you know, pride, and all this other stuff. It this is where you know you see in like a lot of the uh movies and books where you get that phrase, well, if I can't I love you so much, if I can't have you, nobody can.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Everybody misses the point of how bad love can be.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

But to me, perfect love is enough to let something go and to be happy for.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

So if you enter that circle in perfect love and perfect trust, what you're saying is I know that these people care about me more than I care about myself, and I trust them with everything that I love, and in turn, I feel the same way toward these people.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Right. You that you are gonna do everything you can to make them happy, and yes, the thought on this is it's a spiritual happiness we're looking for, right, versus just regular happiness. I'm gonna sacrifice my time and effort to make sure that my fellow coven members are happy. And you do, and you do, and that you're gonna put their needs above yours spiritually in a loving way. And I mean, this is a really hard concept for a lot of people to understand. People go around this stuff all the time and don't actually understand what we're talking about, right? Don't get me wrong, it's not an easy topic to explain to some people because it's hard to explain what love is. Right. Well, I mean, because to me, in my role in temple, sometimes that perfect love is telling my coven members when they come to me with a problem or something, some of the truths they don't want to hear about themselves. It might make them mad at me and all that, but I I can handle one of my covenant members being mad at me if I know in the long run it's going to help them.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

It's what's best for them.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

It's what's best for them. But they know when I'm doing this from a place of love. Like when I'm training people, yeah, sometimes I can get a little rough on training and stuff like that because I know there's bad people out there. I want y'all to be prepared to run across those people who use craft in more of a left-hand path.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I mean, we can't completely deny that. I mean, it's the same thing with our kids. If you go around thinking, ooh, everybody in Wicca or the craft and all this are kind, caring people. They're not.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

No, they're not.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

They're just as diverse as anybody else. There's bad players out there. I want to make sure y'all are prepared when y'all find these people, that y'all see those warning signs that y'all are able to protect yourselves and each other.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

You can make me cry.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Why?

SPEAKER_03 11:21

That's that's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Well, I mean, it's not sweet when you're going through it. I'm, you know. Because let's be honest, how how how many times have we over the years, me and you've had conversations, and by the end of it, you're actually kind of mad at me.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Kinda.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Okay. You slamming down the phone or walking out of the house. I so help me if I see him again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm never talking to him again. Blah blah dah, dah da.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

It's it's temporary and superficial.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

And then, you know, a couple of days later, you're like, I'm sorry. After you've had time to think about what I've said to you or whatever, and you go, uh, yeah, uh I sort of see what you were talking about. I don't know if you're exactly a hundred percent right, but I'm not quite mad at you.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Yeah, it's not I don't think it's ever anger, true anger toward you. I think it's just anger that I take out on you. You know, if I don't want to deal with something or if I'm doing something, you know, that's difficult for me. It was directed toward you, but I don't think I was angry with you. But you know, your subconscious is crazy. It'll just pick anything and anybody to blame stuff on.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Well, no, I mean, we joke all the time. You blame me for everything under the sun.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And I I do not think you're the only person in our temple that does that.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

We all do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Oswin blames me for a lot of things. But then he has to live with me, so it's different, isn't it? I have joked over the years, you know. I I I get blamed when I'm at work or talking to people. Yeah, I get blamed for everything. The whole Adam and Eve things, War I, Two, the Hindenburg.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Your fault.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

The burning of Rome, my fault. But that's okay. If that's what y'all need, that's what I can be.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

You are gonna make me cry. I don't like this subject.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Why not? It's a wonderful. Uh there are some emotions there. I mean, like I said, you know, you're encircled with these people. These are this is your spiritual family. If you can't be open and honest in front of them, and you can't in ritual say some of the most private things. Ooh, here, I like to do this and not worry about judgment. Me and you joke a lot, no kink shame.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

No kink shame. That's right. We're not joking though.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

We're not joking.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

We're not joking.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Because we're we're still back into our mind. How can we judge people?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Me and you cannot.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I mean, I I can't. I it's just not something I can do. I mean, we've had some interesting people in temple over the years who have had really personal problems and issues. If you do not have that perfect love and perfect trust for each other, and I don't display that to y'all, how in the world can I get y'all to display that to me enough to where when y'all have a problem, you feel comfortable enough, I can go to him. I can go tonight and sit down and go, Here's all my problems. No matter how personal and yes, even stuff I don't necessarily want to hear.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Oh, you're gonna hear it. You're hearing it anyway. Shameful.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

And that y'all know I'm not going to go back and repeat these things. Now, with that said, you know, you gotta understand my position compared to the high priestess. There's sometimes y'all might come to me, and yeah, I might go to her and go, hey, person A has this issue, and I don't know what to tell them.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

And you need that advice.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

What what's your opinion? Right. And even though y'all know I do this, you know as soon as I have that conversation with her, it's not gonna go no farther than me and her.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Because you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna be the first one to sit here and say this. I mean, if you think I know all the answers, I don't.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Mm-hmm. Sure, pal. On the other side, this is from your point of view. From my point of view, from the student's point of view, I trust enough that you're going to teach me correctly. That you're not going to give me false information or negative information or something that's detrimental to me, you know. I think a lot of that a lot of the trust comes from that too. I mean, from the very beginning with the training.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah. It takes a lot of trust for me to be able to sit there and go, hey, by the way, we teach this meditation class in our studies, and during that, I'm like, okay, y'all, y'all are gonna do this for the rest of your days.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

And even I still do it. I'm not asking y'all to do nothing I don't do myself.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And then I'm gonna sit there and go, okay, as y'all do this, you're gonna have issues. Past issues that come up that you think you've gone over and dealt with. But guess what? You probably really haven't done it to the level what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

If you even know the issues are there.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Right. And that's and I think that's where that starts to build that trust.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Because eventually y'all will come to me and go, hey, in my meditation, I keep on focusing on this part of my life, and it starts off with just a little bit of opening that book, going, This is what I'm having an issue with. And maybe not tell me tell me what causes that issue, and we'll talk about it for a little bit. Then over time, y'all will come back and go, Well, I'm still having this issue, and about that time I can probably say, Okay, let's get to what started this issue. And then that book opens up a little bit more. The type of trust we're talking about, yes, is built up over years and years, and yeah, can be easily broken within two seconds.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yes. It's the weird kind of trust. It is not trust, it's like once it's broken, it's broken.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

It's broken.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

I don't think you can fix it, it's broken. But once you have it, it is the strongest trust, it is like the deepest trust. But I think too, that type of trust, because it's so deep, can be broken so easily.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah, and rebuilding that trust when we talk about over years, okay, just to give people a glimpse here. We've known each other how long?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

What year is it? It feels like 17 lifetimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

All right. Let's be serious.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Seven, seven years.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Seven years.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Around seven years.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

How long did it take you to trust me to where you could feel like you could tell me anything and everything?

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Oh, that had to be built. It started uh with the meditation though. The issues I was going through with meditations, and you know, is when it started. When I started to build that trust.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I I do trust these people, and it's not like going to a therapist.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

You know, I I can get down deep, down dirty.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And say the things that I barely even mentioned to myself.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And sometimes to have somebody just to sit there and go, you know what, there's nothing wrong with the way you're looking at things. Or have you looked at it this way?

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Or just listen.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Or just the listen. You know, I know we've had many conversations where you've sat there and rambled on, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, yeah, uh, I guess I answered my own question. Never mind. Never mind. And I've gone, oh, I'm sorry. Were you done?

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Someone down, what'd you say?

SPEAKER_00 21:05

What'd you say? Glad I can help.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Yeah. You know, it's a type of trust too, you don't even think about it. You don't question it. You don't I never hesitate if I have something to tell you, or if there's something I want to talk about, I never hesitate doing that. Or I never question, oh, can I trust him with this? It's just I just know that I can.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

You know, and I and I think us by trying to remove guilt helps a lot. Or judge let me rephrase that judgment. Once you realize, okay, I can go to these people and say, Yeah, I I like to dress up, you know, like this and parade around the house. Go home, I dress up into a Wonder Woman costume and walk around the house all day.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

And you know, the worst thing you'll probably get to me is Well why? How does that make you feel? Why do you think it makes us makes you feel that way? Uh it's not. Oh, that's weird.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

No. No, there no, no, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Anything else you'd like to know?

SPEAKER_03 22:22

About dressing up as Wonder Woman.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

No, about perfect love and perfect trust.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

When does that end? Is it only during temple functions or is that outside of temple functions?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

It doesn't end. It doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

In and out.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

In and out. Everyday life.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Yeah. I would agree with that. Did we hit everything?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

I think so, because I'm running out of coffee here. So I guess we'll pick this up next week with a different topic.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Thank you for listening to Peggy and Coffee Talk. I hope you join us next week.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning break. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning.