Magic or Delusion? Part 1 of 2

In this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, Lady Keegan is joined by Lord Chase Night Smith, Elder and Third Degree High Priest, for a deep and often humorous discussion on a critical question within the Craft: where is the line between real magic and delusion?

Drawing from traditional Wiccan teachings and definitions—including the classic idea of magic as the “art and science of causing change in conformity with will”—this episode explores how practitioners can distinguish true magical practice from wishful thinking and self-deception.

The conversation dives into the reality that magic is often subtle, working as a manipulation of probability and outcomes rather than dramatic, Hollywood-style effects. Lady Keegan and Lord Chase Night Smith break down how subjective experience vs objective reality plays a role in spellwork, and why grounding, logic, and self-awareness are essential to avoid falling into delusion.

Key topics include:

•  The difference between magic, belief, and delusion
•  Why spellwork should support real-world action, not replace it 
•  How traditional Wiccans view ritual vs spellcasting
•  The importance of personal responsibility and measurable results
•  Misconceptions around crystals, paid spells, and online “spell services”
•  Why real witches encourage self-work over dependency

This episode also challenges common ideas in modern witchcraft, emphasizing that true practice requires effort, discipline, and alignment with reality—not just intention or purchased rituals.

Perfect for Pagans, Wiccans, witches, and spiritual seekers, this episode offers a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on what magic is—and what it isn’t.

Join us on
Discord:  https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk, a traditional Wiccan podcast where we will discuss topics affecting the Pegging community from a traditionalist perspective. The topics we discuss are picked from our magical hat and the discussions are unscripted. The talk will be led by Lady Keegan, second degree priesthood. She's joined by Lord Chase Knight Smith, Elder and High Priest of Third Degree. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Silmaron.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. I'm Kegan, and as always, Lord Knight. The topic today, magic versus delusion.

unknown 0:58

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:00

What's the delusion?

SPEAKER_03 1:05

I've got to get another definition. Please hold. Okay, look. Alistair Crowley defines magic as the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

And I think we would agree that that's what we consider magic.

SPEAKER_05 1:26

Yes. That's one of the 50 billion definitions of magic, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Yes. But I read another one recently, and it says magic is the means by which the physical and emotional selves can be aligned with divinity inherit in our world.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

That sounds more like religion side of what we do. Well and less to do with quote unquote magic.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

How do we know what do you mean what we do is magic and we're not just deluding ourselves to believe something that's actually not true? Because we have subjective reality and objective reality.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Right. We have a biased to want to see things in a certain light. I think the majority of the times we question ourselves more if it's working or not. Yeah. Or if or I think we question more of the along the lines of are we perceiving reality or are we perceiving something through the filter of our own bias?

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Subjective reality.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Right. I think we ask that question the more than the average. You can tell me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Oh sure. I think so. Do you not? I try not to.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

You try not to, but you know you do.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Is it because we we know that there's a fine line between delusion and magic, and we know our toes are there and it's very easy to get delusional, so we have to keep grounded and be with objective reality. Right. But doing that, do you think that hinders the magic itself?

SPEAKER_05 3:21

No, because we're looking at the aftermath of a spell. Mm-hmm. Hence the reason I like to use the definition of magic as a manipulation of the odds. It's easier to then look at something objectively without bias.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

If you think about it as manipulation of the odds.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

Right. You do a spell for a job, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

Can anybody say for 100% the spell was the final percentage that pushed you over the edge to get that job? Or was it your abilities?

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Well, there's no way that objective reality can discredit subjective reality. It's your reality, it's your experience.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

Right. But again, if you're using a spell to try to get a job, right, that you're not qualified for, right? So if I went out here and fell out an application to get a job as a mechanic, how's that gonna help me keep that job? I mean, you know, again, if I get the if I cast a spell to get this job, right, and I go through the whole process and I actually get the job, me not knowing anything, so it's not based on my skills, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 4:47

Then we'd have to say it was the spell.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

But the other way around, most people would sit there, go, No, is your skill or your experience level, your education. That's subjective reality. Right. It's hard to tell. That's why I said casting a spell to enhance your odds of an outcome of a future event.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Um, what you're talking about, I think, or to me, what I hear, the saying, it's an old adage, says herbs heal our bodies, spells to make our spirits whole. To me, that says you're gonna do something physical to help that spell. You're gonna take the herbs medicine to help your body heal, but you're also gonna cast a spell to enhance. But you have to have both. So if you're looking for a job, you can cast a spell. You also have to put resumes out.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Maybe you have training.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

But then on the other hand, in our tradition, we'd be the first one to sit there and say, your spiritual life is in order, everything else seems to fall into place. The need to cast spells seemed to diminish.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Well, is that because spiritually, once we get spiritually balanced, anything that you go, oh, I need to cast a spell for, to us, we kind of go, Well, it happens and it's not that big of a deal. There's not a need to cast a spell. We can get over this. Right. So we can handle we can handle that.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

What we wind up getting trained to do is, okay, let's say we put in for a promotion, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

And we don't get it. Our training and stuff automatically kicks in, and our first thought is, okay, I need to find out what I need to do to guarantee that next time that a position like this comes open, I can get it. Right. Either A through more education, more hard work, doing certain projects or whatever. What does upper management need to see from me so that when that position or position like this comes open again, they're gonna go, I want this guy.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

And it's because we're trained to take responsibility for our actions.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

For our actions. Again, this isn't no spell or anything. Again, this is our automatic assumption. So we go and have that meeting with that boss. As actually somebody who has done this before, you get really weird looks from bosses when you do this. Because the majority of times what they're used to is well, what did that person get that I ain't got? I got more experience. They don't deserve this, right? I think I've made a horrible mistake. What? Think about the difference of thought process here. Am I making any sense there?

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Yeah, it's me, sure.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

The difference is, is it's all their fault or the person who got the job's fault. And it's a slight against the individual. Our thought is apparently this person's got some skill or some extra experience or whatever that I don't have.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

That's our first thought, yes.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

Right. So I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna ask, hey, what do I need to do to guarantee this? And we're probably not gonna leave that meeting or anything until we got some objective goals, measurable goals, something we can sit there and go, okay, well, you need me to have more education in this field. Or I need an associate's degree or a degree or bachelor's degree. We're not gonna leave there with, well, keep doing what you're doing. What? Right. Because I mean, to me, you know, if you sit there and say that, okay, you hired this person because they are related to you somehow, or they're a friend of a friend, or the friend of the boss. And happen that happens though. And I mean, and it happens, and you know, you can't necessarily blame those who are going, yeah, I don't want this person, I'd rather have this person, but but then those people normally don't stay in those positions quite that long.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

What about other types of magic? What about other uses for magic besides spell work? I know in the witch community the first thing people think is spells, spells, spells, but spell, spells, spells.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

And here's what's really confusing the same method that we use to cast the spell is the same method that we use to cast that circle.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

And that's where I was heading.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

All right. Why we're not referring to rituals as spells, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Right.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

That these are times to celebrate a god, and if you're doing something, we have a hard time about doing spell works and certain rites and stuff during certain Sabbaths. Mm-hmm. Per se, because you know, our belief is that, hey, these times are set aside for the gods.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Yes, particularly Bell Tane.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Right. You know, especially when we're talking about the grants.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

But that same method that we use, at least for casting the circle, is the same thing as magic, but we're not really doing spells in ritual.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Uh, no.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

We're doing the celebration of the gods, trying to glean their wisdom and knowledge of what we need to know then, you know, what lessons need to be learnt and move on. Communicating with the divine, the divine, you know, attuning ourselves to the cycles of nature, not casting money spells, not casting love spells, not casting spells. Oh, I need peace and tranquility. Meditate more. Right, right. Do the work.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Do the work. But when we cast circle, how far can I take this?

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Just remember, and of course, everybody, everybody's gonna get a Twitter over this. Uh the howls are the mysteries.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

The howls, okay. When we cast circle, we do warp space-time. Right. Would you call that magic? Yes. But that's not manipulating the odds. That is warping space-time. That's objective to me.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Well, yes, but in doing this, you are warping the odds. What's the odds of this happening?

SPEAKER_03 11:31

She's talking about mechan qu quantum mechanics?

SPEAKER_05 11:34

Yes. Who knows? Who knows? Right. I guess a lot of people seem to misunderstand this is most magic works on the quantum level versus the actual physical level.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Oh yeah. The quantum level is the fun level.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

Yes. No, you cannot break the laws of physics and nature and but when you go to a quantum realm, the rules change a little.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Just a tad.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

Just a tad. You might not be able to bend a spoon with your mind, you know, as if you were grasping with two hands and blah blah blah. But there is a chance that with enough concentration and enough energy built up in the whole nine yards that you can excite the sub-atomic particles in that spoon to cause a reaction. Oh, yeah. To either weaken the metal to heat the metal up so it will bend. Uh, yeah. But again, we're talking about the difference between a delusion and magic. Right. In in our tradition, this is where we're going to get into a lot of problems. Our tradition that we pretty much follow is old guard paganism. And in our logic is that as long as we are leaving and adjusting and attuning ourselves to the cycles of life and the universe that we don't need spells as much.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

No, we rarely work with spells.

SPEAKER_05 13:13

Right. We're sitting back, okay, I'm fed. I have a roof over my head.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Family'sh.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Yeah. Ish. We're not sitting there going, oh, but you know, it's not a five-bedroom house and multiple car. No.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

We have a roof over our head, we're warm, we're fed. We're fed.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

No, it's not steak tartare or um fle mignon.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Filet mignon. Yeah, I don't like filet mignon anyway.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

I mean it's not that expensive steak life.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Give me ground beef, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

At the end of the day, it is that simpler is better.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Yeah. And it's not that we frown upon spell work. No. Spells are great. If you want to talk about doing a spell all this and all day long, I will do them. They're fine. We just that's not the first line of defense that we go to.

SPEAKER_05 14:11

No. No. Because a lot of the backlash and stuff that people talk about could just be the emotional falling out. I mean, because you actually to power a spell, you actually have to build up some emotions. If you want it to work. If you want it to work. But to think that doing these intense emotions like that don't have a physical effect and a mental effect and an emotional effect on you.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

All right. Well, let me paint you a picture here.

SPEAKER_05 14:44

Okay. Paint me a picture.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

This dude wants to fly.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

This dude. This dude wants to fly.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

He wants to fly.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Get on a plane.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

No, no. He wants to fly. He's going to be a bird. So he studies aerodynamics and he finds a cliff and he goes to the top of the cliff. He's going to use magic and he's going to jump off this cliff and he's going to fly. I think we would agree. He's delusional.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Well, again, the odds of this actually happening is an astronomical number.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

So you're saying that it's odds that he could, in fact, fly.

SPEAKER_05 15:20

Anything, okay. First of all, anything is possible. And this is where a lot of people get confused. Anything's possible. You name it as outrageous as you think, right? But you don't want to open that door now, do you? Well, for as outrageous as any idea is, it is a possibility. The likelihood of this happening might be 1% to some astronomical number.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

So you're saying that we manipulate the odds to change objective reality. Yes. Which goes back to Alex Crowley's definition. Look at you, you keep going back and forth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:03

When you start thinking about this, okay, how much can you change those odds? How much can you change objective reality? Right, right. You might be able to, we're back to the whole entire winning the lotto. Oh, if magic really works, all witches would be rich because we'd all be able to win the lotto. Okay. But let's look at the odds of the lotto and how to win. How much effort does it take just to change those odds by five percent in your favor?

SPEAKER_03 16:39

How much uh five percent of what?

SPEAKER_05 16:42

Of the odds to win the lotto.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Well, that's gonna change, I guess, depending on how many people are playing.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Right. You know, but they have some typical odds. You could look up the odds right now. I mean, it's like one to some astronomical number.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Get in a getting struck by lightning in the house you won by Ed McMahon, I think.

SPEAKER_05 17:04

Yeah. Your thought there is, okay, I can cast a spell and get five percent on my side. Well, when you start looking at the odds there, ooh, having five percent more chance than anybody else really doesn't make you win.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 17:22

I think you have to play to win as well.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

I don't know many of us that play.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

No, because we know there's no sense in it.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

There's other ways if you want.

SPEAKER_05 17:33

There's more sure ways to get money. Otherwise, right. Other avenues to get money, it might not be the level of what you want, but Don't you have to ask yourself why do you need that amount of money? Right. Is really what you gotta ask yourself. Why do I need that money? Do I really need that money? Do you need that money?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Do you want that money?

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Right. Do I really need 50 altars in my house when one does just fine?

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Everywhere. And I need the money to buy 50 rooms to put the 50 altars in.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

The 50 altars in, and the fact that I've over the years, even though it's been a little bit here and a little bit there, I have spent enough on crystals and rocks and stuff to already have bought a car. Mm-hmm. To put on my 50 altars.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Mm-hmm. Good looking crystals you got there. It's a shame you hungry.

SPEAKER_05 18:32

So it makes me wonder how effective are these crystals then? You got all these on your altar and all that, but is it actually changing anything?

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Well, I guess you could do a spell and manipulate the odds to get them to work.

SPEAKER_05 18:47

Well, yeah, you can.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

That's uh that but that's easy. Leave the crystal alone, do the spell.

SPEAKER_05 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

At some point or another, yeah, you're gonna have to leave the fo you know. So would you believe you think that that would be the delusional part if they're deluding themselves to think that these rocks are giving them power?

SPEAKER_05 19:09

Yes. Who you know those uh those who delude themselves here, I'm gonna be even ballsier and probably get us all in trouble and have everybody up in an uproar and people doing all sorts of bad comments going. Y'all are so racist. The real the real delusion, okay, that's gonna make everybody mad, is those who go out and buy spells and these crystals and spend all this money on this stuff thinking that this in and of itself is gonna work.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:50

I mean they do, and they are out there and they're and they this is the delusional part. You really believe that paying this guy to light a candle in your honor, five dollars, two dollars, let's think about that for a minute. Are you sure? I can take a video of myself lighting a bunch of candles up and keep on sending that same video to everybody for like six months before hopefully before they figure out it's the same video over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Okay, so if a person online pays another person three hundred dollars, let's say, to say an your name in their next full moon ritual, that's delusion.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

Yes. Then it's gonna do something. Here's how you find the real witches, all right? When you're talking about spells and stuff like that. It's not gonna be the person sitting there going, Oh, well, here you need this, you need to say this, or blah blah blah. It's gonna be the one that sits back and goes, Okay, and what kind of spell would you like to do? Oh. And how do you think that would go? Okay, well, write that down. Keep going. Huh. Okay, right there's your spell. All right, thank you. Uh not realizing that they just wrote their own spell. Well, it came from a real witch, see. Uh no, it didn't. It came from It has to work. It came from you. It's getting a real witch is going to encourage you to do the spell yourself. Cause you sure don't want me to do it for you.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

I would say, why do you need it? What's your problem that you have to have it? Right. And I want a better car. Okay, why do you need a spell to do that? Right. Because the fact is we do work with the physical laws on the physical plane here. Right. At least if you're a muggle and you're asking for a spell. Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

You know, I'm I'm sorry, if you sit there telling me you want a spell for a new car, here What here's going to be my suggestion. Okay, here's what you're gonna do. Every time you get your paycheck, you're gonna calculate 10% of it.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

And put it into a savings account.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

And I want you to do this for the next five years. Yep. It's one of them long acting spells. It's a long acting spell. And then when you start thinking of it, that that 10% is probably on average the cost of an actual car payment. Mm-hmm. Right. And the longest terms I've seen is what? For buying a car, what, five, five to six years?

SPEAKER_03 22:40

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:41

Yeah, that you basically probably after doing that could probably go in and lay the money down and pay cash money for a car. Right. Oh, here's a little bit of knowledge. If you go in with cash money into a car dealership, you'll be surprised at how fast they will drop that price. You're talking about being your friend. You're talking about being your friend. When you walk in there and go, hey, I got like 40,000 and subscribe of dollars. And I want to and this is what I want this car for. Yep. Oh, cash? Oh, hell yeah. Give me the cash.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Your best friend now.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

Hey, you're my best friend now. Yeah, we're gonna get that price down real low for you. You're gonna trade in this car, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Well, did the spell work?

SPEAKER_05 23:35

Did the spell work or was it just the fact that we tricked you into saving?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

See, it's that that line: magic and delusion. Don't delude yourself into thinking things work the same on this physical plane.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Well, see, I remember Lord Men told me about this guy whose lover went away on a business trip. This guy shows up and it's just like, okay, no, no, no, no, no. I need him to come home. And the way he was saying it, first of all, it was like this guy was making it out like this guy had packed up all his shit, moved out, and moved to some foreign country. Right. Come to find out, he went on a business trip and would be back in about three days.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

What?

SPEAKER_05 24:19

All right, but this guy's having a fit. So here's what Lord Men does. Well, you know, you're gonna get two candles. One candle represents you, one candle represents him. And over in I want you to light them, keep them like three feet apart. I want you to move them halfway the next night, and then the next night move them another halfway, which as soon as they're together, your love will return. Right. And the guy goes, Well, it'd be three days, he'll be back then. See, it works. It's a working spell. It's a working spell.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 24:56

All right. Because real witches are going to try to get you to deal with the problem.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Or at least change your focus.

SPEAKER_05 25:05

Right. We're gonna try to get you to work on the issue here. The issue is he's gone for three days on a trip. Why do you need him to come back tonight versus in three days?

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

What's the real reason for this? If you have an issue that, you know, he might be fooling around or cheating on you, or blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

You're casting the wrong spell.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

You're casting the wrong spell. What you need to do is work on y'all's trust in y'all's relationship.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Oh, see, I was gonna say axe throwing, but sure. Trust.

SPEAKER_05 25:44

Well, I mean, again, this is an unfounded fear. Just because somebody goes on a business trip doesn't necessarily mean that, hey, they're just out of sight, so therefore they must be at an orgy somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, that does. That's a trust issue.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

That's a trust issue.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Yeah. However, if they are fooling around on you, I say you want a spell to acquire weapons cheaply. This that would be my spell. I need a spell. I need a battle axe. Oh God, what for? No reason.

SPEAKER_05 26:21

God, can't you just hire a lawyer like a normal person, please?

SPEAKER_03 26:25

No, no.

SPEAKER_05 26:26

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Gotta use battle axe.

SPEAKER_05 26:32

I'm not sure that he's cheating on me. I just want to put it like right above the door.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

Or right beside the door, so I, you know, I can grab it at any time just to remind him.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

I love him.

SPEAKER_05 26:47

I I got this and I love you.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Right. I love you. I have this axe to prove it.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

I have this axe to prove it. That could just be me. It might be. It is possible. Just saying.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that the magic is actually going to work. You know, I'd have to actually use the axe. Yes. You can't just cast a spell on these things.

SPEAKER_05 27:24

You know, I mean, and again, you've heard me teach this before. Magic, most magic is very subtle. Yeah. It's not very blatant. Um, you know, it is not this Hollywood TV hyped up stuff where you cast a spell and lights materialize out of nowhere and blah blah blah. It don't happen. There's not gonna be no thunderclap, no big blue guy popping out of nowhere going, uh, your wish is granted.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Oh, you're talking about a genie. I'm like, yes, blue guy. What blue guy?

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Blue guy, genie.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Oh my god. No, or otherwise that's a delusion. Right. But we believe that our magic works. Do we believe it? Do we know it? Scientifically, I can back up these reasons how this works.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

You know, all I can say is in the driving around that I do in my little town, I don't stop for a lot of red lights.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Right. Right. See, that's subtle. It's subtle.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

That's subtle.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

It's subtle.

SPEAKER_05 28:44

It's subtle. Or I don't sit quite that long.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

It still requires effort. Right. You can't get online and just ask for a spell, someone sent it to you in the end.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Right. Again, it's a manipulation of the odds, and what you have to, when working with spells and stuff, forget the whole entire, you know, hey, am I manipulating this or am I manipulating that? The answer is yes. They're in some people's minds are going to be winners and losers. Yeah. I mean, I hate to be that way, but the these things happen anyway.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:28

You know, if you're doing a spell for a job and there's this wonderful company everybody wants to work for, they get 50 application. Out of them 50, only one person's going to get the job. Right. Yeah. I mean, do you see what I'm saying? Yes. So in some cases, you can sit there and go, okay, well, 49 people lost. There's only one job at this particular company. Does that stop these other 49 people going out and finding jobs somewhere else?

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Okay, what about love?

SPEAKER_05 30:05

What about it?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Casting a spell for love. Not on someone. But just I'm lonely and need somebody and I'm gonna cast a spell. Not my mate, but for love to find me.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Here's where a lot of people screw up on this is sometimes some specifics need to be there on love spells and stuff like that. Sometimes. Yeah. A lot of times. If you're a woman and you're and you're straight and you're wanting to find another guy, it might be good for you to put somewhere on there, hey, I don't want a gay guy, I don't want to fall in love with a gay guy.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

No, well no, this spell is that love finds you. Love's gonna find me.

unknown 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

Well, I mean, again, it it's still this whole entire thing. If you cast a spell and then sit at home and watch The Bachelor all the time, I doubt you're gonna find love.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

So then you're back to the other definition. You're balancing the physical and me.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

Well, again, you're gonna have to go out. You're gonna have to go on dating services. You might have to socialize. You might actually have to socialize. You know, most people who ask me this, I tell them about this place, this website about called Meetup. You go off and do stuff you like with other people, you might not know.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Oh, Meetup, is that the website you use?

SPEAKER_05 31:32

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I suggest this to a lot of people. I suggest this to a lot of people. Nobody ever listens to me though.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

There's other websites too.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Well, I mean, there are. And Meetup is not a dating app per se. It's hey, you know, well, I mean, it's groups. So, you know, if you like to go hiking or camping or do macrame, this is where you find these groups where you can sit down and socialize with other people who like to do these activities.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Oh, sure. Because there's nothing safer than going out with a group of people going camping in the woods. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:18

I mean, again, you're gonna get to know these people.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Yeah, you know personal as they're chopping your body into bits. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

There's other there's other groups out there. But again, you're going out, you're you're meeting these people. I think you got a higher a better chance of finding somebody like this than versus going on what, Grinder or TikTok or people on Grinder or um or any of these other dating apps. Because it's going to be more organic.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Organic. Oh, yes, yes, definitely organic.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Versus going to go see then going on to a dating app, you know, swipe left, right, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Organic. Yeah, it's organic.

SPEAKER_05 33:15

You know what you're getting into this, and you know, you're gonna be Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

So if you're doing that, you would cast a spell to manipulate the odds to not be chopped up into bits. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

See.

SPEAKER_05 33:31

Again, again, you're assuming people are gonna go out there. Oh, well, never mind. I said use I was thinking use common sense, but you know we're talking about people. Some people won't do that. Oh yeah, we need to sue him. I listened to his podcast, he suggests meet up. I went on to a and they chopped me up with an axe. Right. Because, you know, I didn't like, you know, read the fine print there or try to meet these people in a public area, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Or take your axe with you.

SPEAKER_05 34:03

Or going on a camping trip.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Take your double bladed, don't cast a spell, take your double-bladed axe, your battle axe. Every good witch should have one. Join us next week as we continue the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Thank you for listening to Peggy and Coffee Talk. I hope you join us next week.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

We travel down the strode stone in fire. Just hold my hand as we pass by us.