Plant Power: When Magic Meets Medicine

Herbalists and apothecaries. While both work with plants and natural substances, their approaches couldn't be more different. Herbalists typically focus on magical properties and spiritual applications, while apothecaries delve into the science of plant compounds and their medicinal effects on the human body. After all, many pharmaceutical drugs—from aspirin derived from willow bark to powerful opioids—originated from plants long before modern medicine isolated their compounds.

We also tackle the serious business of working with an apothecary. A qualified practitioner will conduct thorough consultations, ask personal questions about your health history, and ensure their remedies won't interact negatively with your existing medications. Unlike the instant results sometimes promised in magical contexts, natural remedies typically build up in your system gradually, requiring patience and consistency. This realistic approach stands in stark contrast to the quick-fix expectations many bring to natural medicine.

Your health journey should be a team effort with you as the leader. The best outcomes often come from apothecaries who work in conjunction with conventional medical practitioners, recognizing that both approaches have their place. Whether you're dealing with chronic conditions or seeking preventative care, understanding this balance helps you make informed decisions about your wellbeing.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:20

Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Hey, lone Knight. Hey, how are you?

Speaker 2 0:29

I'm fine.

Speaker 1 0:30

How are you? Other than a sinus infection? I'm good.

Speaker 2 0:34

Oh.

Speaker 1 0:35

But you know, maybe you should go to the doctor, hmm, well, why would I do that?

Apothecaries vs Herbalists Explained

Speaker 2 0:40

What? Can't get an appointment? Probably not. Well, you know what you could do instead If you can't get an appointment. Probably not well, you know what you could do instead if you can't get an appointment with the doctor uh-huh, go see your local apothecary.

Speaker 1 0:50

Oh, you know, I could do that. Now. That raises a good question though okay, is that just an herbalist?

Speaker 2 0:56

no, what's the difference? Uh, the level of training, level of training, level of training, level of training, level of training Most herbalists deal with more magical usage of herbs Okay. Where apothecaries deal more with the compounds found in the herbs. So it's more medicinal, it's more medicinal. There's no magic required to use herbs as medicine. Okay, does it help? Maybe Right.

Speaker 1 1:31

Not going to rule it out.

Speaker 2 1:32

Not going to rule it out, but is it required? No, all right, and before anybody states the obvious on this, all right, I'm just going to bring up the following plants Cyprositilin, marijuana, cocaine and opioids.

Speaker 2 1:50

All come from plants, right. Nothing else. They're not engineered. The original forms come from plants, right. So again, if you don't believe that there's compounds in here, that I'm sorry. The drugs preview wrong, right, all right. I just want to stake that out because there are people out there for some reason. I've ran across them and I even remember lady keegan even mentioned that a few got into her class where literally they were sitting there talking about some of the compounds and one woman raised her hand and was just like wait a minute, but we ain't even charged or magically done and everybody in the class just looked at them and the teacher goes let me see after class. Basically, I don't think this is the class for you.

Speaker 1 2:40

Yeah, I mean, I could totally see that.

Medicinal Properties of Common Plants

Speaker 2 2:43

Because we're dealing with real compounds that can be found and broke down in plants. Right, and you know drug interactions and all that other stuff so yeah, yeah, I mean, there's a drug I take. I cannot eat large amounts of ginger, right, or they'll interact with each other and not in a good way, right, definitely don't want that. All right. But yeah, or they'll interact with each other and not in a good way, right?

Speaker 1 3:06

Definitely don't want that.

Speaker 2 3:08

All right, but yet I hear all these people sit there and we'll sit there and say the same thing, but yet not realize that you go to the doctor's office to get a pill or an injection known as Coumadin added to you to thin out your blood.

Speaker 1 3:25

Oh yeah, coumadin, Coumadin yeah.

Speaker 2 3:27

All right, and we do realize you can buy this in the grocery store, right? Technically? Yeah, again, it's the same herb. The only difference is the amount. When doctors give it to you, they're giving them to you, a very large amount.

Speaker 1 3:44

Well, and I think it's also got something else in it, some other things in there to concentrate the things needed to thin your blood.

Speaker 2 3:53

You know, that's just like we get aspirin from the tree bark of, I think, whipping willows. Is it whipping willows? Yep? Whipping willows bark has aspartame in them.

Speaker 1 4:09

Okay, I'll take your word on that one because that's, if you have to, you can fact check me. Well, I don't Hold on. Hold on while we do some little fact check.

Speaker 2 4:23

Aspartame exists, in what plants, where?

Speaker 1 4:27

does there we go? What plant?

Speaker 2 4:32

It comes from multiple plants.

Speaker 1 4:34

Salicylic acid.

Speaker 2 4:36

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 4:37

Compound found in several plants White willow, wintergreen and birch.

Speaker 3 4:43

Hmm, it's a willow bark Will.

Speaker 1 4:45

It's a willow bark.

Speaker 2 4:46

Willow bark, white willow bark.

Speaker 1 4:49

I don't know if that's the same as the weeping willows, but it's still a willow tree.

Speaker 2 4:52

Yeah, it's still a willow tree. Okay, so I mean specifically that. But again, this is where we get aspirin from.

Speaker 1 5:02

Right.

Speaker 2 5:04

Again back in the day you had a headache. Yes, they would tell you to damn chew on a piece of bark. Well sure, all right. But I see a lot of people in the pagan community. They don't seem to want to believe that these compounds exist. They just want to think it's just magic.

The Magic-Medicine Disconnect in Paganism

Speaker 1 5:19

Just magic. I don't know that I've run across that, but I know there is a lot of the magic aspect that people want to follow. Yes, Kind of like with the crystals.

Speaker 3 5:35

Right.

Speaker 1 5:36

You want to do the magic aspect, and I think that's the love affair with magic.

Speaker 2 5:42

Maybe I mean don't get me wrong, I mean quartz crystals do have their purpose in magic.

Speaker 2 5:48

They act more like regulators. We can put a lot of energy into them and energy will slip out of them slowly over time. Well, sure, hence the reason we use them for protection crystals. We can put a lot of energy in there and then it will just slowly release it over time, leaving that protective barrier. Sure, all right. But, and again, just like plants, same thing with plants. All right, I mean, for crying out loud. They just rfk, just decided to try to ban all the artificial flavors and colorants and right and already they're starting to research natural alternatives to the dyes.

Speaker 2 6:26

And it's funny how that is Right, you know, funny how in the world. I've even seen certain companies and I'm not sure how true it is where they've all of a sudden able to go out to all natural dyes overnight. Right, who was that? Was that Sprinkles? I don't know, the Sprinkles for your cupcakes or whatever.

Speaker 1 6:46

Oh, was it? Yeah, I think you read. No, I don't think I saw that story, but yeah.

Speaker 2 6:51

So I have to ask so what is it in the pagan community where we don't seem to believe that we are what we eat or that these herbs actually have what causes?

Speaker 1 7:03

that disconnect. I think a lot of it has to do with the love affair, with magic. I think it's a um. I think it's more caused by hollywood right and that whole aspect of the magical life. Right, you know, live your magical. And then everything that we've got, from posters to little metal signs that we can hang up in our house, to stickers and everything else, it's all magic related and it's what's been pushed on us and I think that's kind of divided, that line between magic and medicinal and science.

Speaker 2 7:45

yes, all right I mean because I I'm not going to sit here and tell you I don't see them on facebook and twitter, the little things you know. Oh, february, magic month here, these herbs and blah, blah, blah and on and on and on right again, it talks about the herbs, but not the medicinal aspect of anything.

Speaker 1 8:04

You know, and unfortunately we don't see a lot of apothecaries nowadays and even if we did, they're not putting themselves out on Facebook, no Saying you know, actually these herbs are very medicinal and da-da-da, or this or that.

Speaker 2 8:25

And again, don't get me wrong, it can be a little confusing when you start to try to study this stuff, because there's so many and so much right to be able to identify, learn. And I mean, I'm sorry, if you can't identify a plant, you you got a problem there, your, your ability to be an herbalist or even an apothecary just dropped dramatically, right, because if you cannot distinguish a poisonous plant over a different plant, right, you're gonna have a problem yeah, and I mean, you know I'll be the first to admit I would be a terrible herbalist, I'd be a terrible apothecary, because there's only certain plants that I can identify.

Finding a Trustworthy Apothecary

Speaker 2 9:07

I've been working on that, but I got to ask All right, now there's certain rules or certain laws right About making certain products in every state, whatever. You need to learn those, whatever. But in the paying community I don't. A lot of the stuff's done. A friend of a friend made this for me, or anything like that. Should you be concerned? Would you be concerned about who your apothecary is? I mean I would think so I mean, are you with me?

Speaker 1 9:39

because you're you know again, you're dealing with a more medicinal aspect and you do have to worry about drug interactions. I mean, let's face it, even your pharmacist at your local pharmacy.

Speaker 2 9:51

What medications you own.

Speaker 1 9:53

Well, yeah, they want to know what other medications are you taking and if you look at any pamphlet that comes with your drugs it will always say watch out for these interactions. You know there's some medications you can't take heartburn pills with, some you have to take specific pills with and you have to be like 12 hours apart.

Speaker 2 10:14

Right. And then there's some.

Speaker 1 10:16

you're not supposed to eat certain foods with the Right, but now a lot of those pamphlets won't put that information in there.

Speaker 2 10:23

No, not directly, but now a lot of those pamphlets won't put that information in there.

Speaker 1 10:26

No, not not directly, so it's so I mean it all comes down to know you know what you're taking. So yeah, I would think if I'm going to an apothecary it's not going to be just joe, blow down the road, right, you know, I want somebody, I know you want somebody who's licensed, trained right and really knows what they're doing right.

Speaker 2 10:48

I think one of the best ways to know if you're really dealing with a good apothecary is when you first sit down with them. They're going to have a quite long conversation with you. Oh yeah, they're going to be asking you personal questions and sitting there taking notes the whole entire time. And they're going to be asking you questions and some of them are going to be quite personal.

Speaker 1 11:09

Yeah, I mean be prepared to answer those personal questions, because why it matters.

Speaker 2 11:15

I mean you've got to treat this person just like you do your doctor. You can't sit there and abscond or color the truth about certain.

Speaker 1 11:24

You're with me, right? No, because if you do that, then, yeah, you're potentially misdiagnosing yourself.

Speaker 2 11:33

Right. So again, if you can't be honest enough, or you don't feel honest enough with these people that you can tell them everything, there might be a problem there, right? So maybe you should find a different apothecary or somebody like that.

Speaker 1 11:51

Or just go to your doctor instead, or just actually go to your doctor.

Speaker 2 11:53

I mean again, I don't want to knock down the apothecaries, but most of the good apothecaries I know work with doctors.

Speaker 1 12:01

I get that a lot of people want to take a more holistic approach, right? That's where, yeah, your herbalist might be able to tell you well, you know this herb's good for heartburn or this herb's good for blood pressure, but they're not going to be able to tell you dosing. They're not going to be able to tell you if it interacts with any medication you might or might not be taking at the time.

Speaker 2 12:30

I mean again, the dosing does become a little different because most pharmacists are dealing with scientific chemicals, right, and they know the potency. I'm sorry when you make up rose oil or an essential oil or something you sort of know, but it doesn't necessarily depends on how well the plant grew that year and water, but again you're consulting with an apothecary who's already been taught to understand these things and how to adjust.

Speaker 1 13:03

Right and chances are they're probably going to start you on a low dose anyway.

Speaker 2 13:07

Just be on the safe side Most apothecaries I know give you an herb and and go here rub this on your hand, right you know here. Rub this on this sensitive spot right here. Does it itch? No, then you're not allergic with it. Now we're going to move on to another thing here. Taste it? Do your lips stout? No, then you're good, right I mean it, just it.

Speaker 1 13:28

It's common sense to work with, not against, the people that you're entrusting your medication to. You know Right.

Speaker 2 13:39

Let's skip over While we're on this, just healers in general.

Speaker 1 13:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:44

All right, there's this wonderful story Lord and Men used to tell us about a friend of theirs.

Speaker 1 13:48

Uh-huh.

Healing Practices and Their Limitations

Speaker 2 13:49

That was part of the coven or group or whatever, and he would come in every so often with a medical complaint. They would do a healing ritual and move on and didn't think nothing else about it. And they kept on doing this over and over again for a while and I remember the guy wound up in the hospital about to go into a diabetic coma with none of the symptoms of being diabetic right, because they cured all the symptoms so the doctor couldn't diagnose them. So, and again, in a way, here we are trying to heal someone, but at no point did anybody ever go. Wait a minute. What's the underlying problem? Right, we're not doctors. We haven't diagnosed that underlying problem.

Speaker 1 14:30

Yeah, I think that's a very valid argument because there's a lot of people.

Speaker 2 14:37

There's a lot of symptoms that can mimic other symptoms for other problems.

Speaker 1 14:41

Yes, yes, that's exactly where I was going with that Because, let's face it, even flu, right, you take the flu, flu-like symptoms, hello.

Speaker 2 14:56

The common cold can represent flu-like symptoms.

Speaker 1 14:59

Could be the common cold. Could be allergies. Allergies can present as flu-like symptoms.

Speaker 2 15:05

Come on people, and we call them flu-like symptoms, because it's something common, everybody understands, right?

Speaker 1 15:12

So if you're not, again I'm back to what you said If you're not diagnosing, you're not getting to the root of the problem.

Speaker 2 15:20

No, well again. I mean it's like the whole entire problem with Reiki. Reiki works. I believe it works All right, I've seen it work.

Speaker 3 15:29

It can relieve pain.

Speaker 2 15:30

It can relieve stress. It can relieve stress. It can do a lot of things, but the one thing it don't do is it don't normally fix the root of the problem.

Speaker 3 15:39

No.

Speaker 2 15:39

And the problem just comes back and you have to go back. It's like continuously having to go back to the chiropractor.

Speaker 1 15:46

Well, I see Reiki as more of and I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong but I see Reiki as more of. It's kind of like taking a pain pill.

Speaker 2 16:00

Yes.

Speaker 1 16:01

You're not getting rid of the root cause, you're just relieving the symptoms. You're relieving the symptoms and it's not even eliminating the symptoms. Again, it's masking.

Speaker 2 16:13

Well again, even acupuncture, to a certain extent, I believe, does the same thing. I believe some ways it can help heal. Okay, all right, because they can direct energy to a part of your body to help heal naturally Right right. That I understand. That makes sense to me. But the fact that it could just instantly do it just because you put a needle in one spot, I don't well, no, and I see all of these therapies the same.

Speaker 1 16:41

It's, uh, the same as the herbal approach to things. Herbs take a while to build up in your system again.

Speaker 2 16:50

it's all like exercising Right. For the yoga to work, you've got to do it for a long period of time.

Speaker 1 16:55

Right.

Speaker 2 16:55

For the Tai Chi to work, you have to do it.

Speaker 1 16:57

Right, and the same thing if you're taking any herbal supplements. You know I take fish oil, I take whatever else. It takes a while for that to build up in your system, for it to do what it's intended to do Right. So you have to give it time. You're not going to see those overnight results like most people expect. No, even if you're following back to the whole magic aspect, even if you're following a magical aspect of this, you're not going to see overnight results.

Speaker 2 17:27

No, never, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 17:30

So give it time, be patient.

Speaker 2 17:34

You mean? I mean you want me to sit here and say strange things have never happened, or anything like that, and it happens.

Working With Doctors and Apothecaries Together

Speaker 1 17:41

Strange things do happen every once in a while.

Speaker 2 17:43

But sitting there betting the boat on it is not something I would do. No, all right. So there is a difference between herbalism and apothecary Right. A good herbalist will be able to point you to the right tea to drink and all this other stuff, and maybe the right herbs to burn or incense.

Speaker 1 18:05

Right.

Speaker 2 18:05

Where apothecary is going to be able to tell you okay, you take this much rosemary and you might not have to take this pill Right, or you might not have to take this pill right or you might not have to do this drug.

Speaker 1 18:16

We can do this more naturally here by the time we get you off more the artificial medicine and back onto a more natural thing you might do better, right, and they'll also and, like we mentioned earlier, they'll also be able to tell you well, because you're taking this particular medication, I can't give you this set of herbs no but I can give you this me personally.

Speaker 2 18:40

I've had to take ibuprofen yeah over a long period of time. This hurt my kidneys yeah because of all the swelling and stuff I have. But I found a more natural way to do it that it doesn't hurt my kidneys as much. Right, and still get the effect of that with that herb that I take to help with that.

Speaker 1 18:59

Right.

Speaker 2 19:00

I'm not saying it works for everybody, it works for me.

Speaker 1 19:03

But Right, but that's my point. I mean, it's just your apothecary is going to be able to tell you, yeah, on a more scientific, scientific, more medicinal level.

Speaker 2 19:15

That's the biggest difference between an apothecary and your herbalist but at the end of the day, I'm still not going to sit there and tell you to completely ignore your doctor either no, I know all of this should be done in conjunction with your doctor you know I I have a condition that I was diagnosed with and I went to my apothecary and I said hey, what can I take for this?

Speaker 1 19:34

She said, hey, take this. It's not going to interfere with anything you already take, but it's really good. Take this and this dosage this many times a week. I did. I was starting to see some results after a while and my doctor was like no, I'm not seeing that. I'm not seeing the improvement. I would like to see some results after a while. And my doctor was like nope, I'm not seeing the improvement I would like to see. I want you to come off of that. I'm going to put you on this. I consulted with my apothecary. She was like well, you should listen to your doctor. So guess what I did?

Speaker 3 20:06

Did I like that decision? No.

Speaker 1 20:08

Because what the doctor gives me is synthetic, right, and I don't like that, but it's given me the results that I need physically, physically. So you should always be consulting with your doctor. Yes, relay your information to your apothecary. That's how this works.

Speaker 2 20:28

I know.

Speaker 1 20:29

Think of it as a team effort in your healthcare.

Speaker 2 20:30

I know Except you're the team team effort in your health care, I know, except you're the team leader.

Speaker 1 20:33

Right.

Speaker 2 20:34

Don't ever think that they are the team leaders. You are. It's your health.

Speaker 1 20:39

Right.

Speaker 2 20:42

They can only make advice and suggestions. So I think that's about it for this.

Speaker 1 20:46

Let's get some coffee. Oh God, yes, Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter of stone and mire.

Speaker 3 21:14

Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning.