Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Is Technology Killing Our Ability to Connect?
Have you ever wondered if there's something fundamentally wrong with our world today? In this thought-provoking episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, we tackle this question head-on, revealing that the issue isn't with Earth itself, but with humanity and our increasingly distorted perceptions.
We dive deep into what some might call a "crisis of ego" sweeping across society. Through candid conversation, we explore how digital communication has created a dangerous disconnect between people. When we interact through screens rather than face-to-face, we lose the essential energy exchange that makes us truly human. Even video calls fail to bridge this gap completely, leaving us increasingly isolated despite being more connected than ever before, amplifying our worst tendencies. Everyone believes their opinion matters most and must be heard, leading to heightened emotions and diminished capacity for civil disagreement.
Perhaps most importantly, we discuss how growth requires discomfort—a reality many people actively avoid. From difficult conversations with children to engaging with challenging perspectives, our collective unwillingness to experience discomfort has stunted our development as individuals and as a society. The solution begins with recognizing our shared humanity and focusing on what unites us rather than what divides us.
Join us for this enlightening discussion that challenges conventional wisdom and offers a pagan perspective on humanity's most pressing challenges.
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Speaker 3:Hey, neera, I've got a question for you. What's that? What's wrong with the world? Please consider donating and following our socials. Of itself, there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with the trees, nothing wrong with the grass, nothing wrong with the air, nothing wrong with the rivers, the oceans what about?
Speaker 2:what about global warming? Is that wrong, or is that it's?
Speaker 3:accelerated by man, the world goes through the earth itself goes through cycles. That goes through cycles. We went through an ice age. Wasn't very many people around for that?
Speaker 2:actually we're to some extent we are still going through a slight yeah sage, because the poles are still covered in ice.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So that technically is a.
Speaker 3:Kind of I mean just in the extreme parts of the world, yeah, there's still ice. Like we went to Alaska one time, there are still icebergs around.
Speaker 2:There are still glaciers icebergs there's.
Speaker 3:There are still glaciers, even though alaska just got a 85 degree heat advisory in the place that's supposed to be the coldest part of alaska.
Speaker 2:Well, again, the same thing's been also argued is because of the magnetic field is starting to weaken around the earth, allowing more solar radiation into to hit the earth but that's caused by? That is caused by pole shifting, which is a nothing anybody can do about.
Speaker 3:It's a natural process yeah, we can't do anything about that.
Speaker 2:That's the earth doing what it does that's what all magnets, all magnets like this even the sun goes through this process yeah all right. So again, is it really? Man-made or is it just? I think we are helping it along at an accelerated pace all right, let's talk about the insanity of humanity, though that because here lately, here, lately a lot of wars been going on, a lot of conflicts. I mean, I'm not saying there aren't conflicts always going on on the earth there is.
Speaker 2:It's through the dawn of time all right, and some are smaller, bigger, but it seems to be a little bit more here lately. Everybody seems a little bit more on edge.
Speaker 3:So what's wrong with the?
Speaker 2:world is that. Is there something wrong there? No, with the world, is there something wrong there?
Speaker 3:No, with the world itself. No, there isn't. The fault is with humanity.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And most of these wars it's under the guise of religious reasons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've got a lot of religions that are sitting back going, hey, there's something wrong with the world. We've got to wait for our Savior or Messiah to come and fix everything. No, no, no, no Pagans we don't necessarily believe that, I don't buy that one bit.
Speaker 3:I mean not in the sense that Jesus is going to come from the east in the sky wave his hand and make everything okay.
Speaker 2:I've never seen any myths or prophecies where the Twafidate and on are going to split the sky open again and land their magical city in the middle of.
Speaker 3:Ireland again.
Speaker 2:We don't have anything like that. So again, the world is what we make out of it.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 2:We don't even believe it's necessarily going to end.
Speaker 3:No, I mean scientifically speaking, it will. Yeah the sun will expand Millions of years from now. I did see an article recently where scientists estimated the exact year. I can't remember what they said because my memory sucks, but they did estimate a time. It will eventually.
Speaker 2:It will eventually die, but pagans, we don't believe there's going to be an apocalypse. No, not in the sense I think the closest we get is Norse mythology, with Ragnarok.
Speaker 3:Yes, but not in the sense that the Christians believe no.
Speaker 2:No, there's a new beginning after Well, even the Christians believe after the apocalypse.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or after revelations that Christ is going to come and make a brand new sparkling world for everybody, or something?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but here's the thing If heaven exists, why do you need to remake the earth?
Speaker 2:Got to ask the question. But yeah, you're right. I mean, from what I remember of my Christian upbringing is that Revelations, so many people were supposed to be called up to heaven to avoid it. Well, the rest of us pagans have to sit there and go through it, supposedly Right. But the thing is why are you bringing them back to earth? You took them to heaven, where heaven's supposed to be perfect in and of itself.
Speaker 3:Yes, Like why would you want to come back to earth when you're already in paradise? Why would Jesus need to come back and remake it?
Speaker 2:well, when do we even have to be here?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, we don't have to, we don't have to be here, so again if the if, those are right, that's where all that ends.
Speaker 2:So that don't make no sense to me. I'm like you it's. Why do they have to remake the earth if heaven's just fun?
Speaker 3:I mean, that's um. It's just one of those things right there I mean but.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day, no, we don't believe somebody's going to come along and save us or stop a war or you know, or necessarily life is going to just suddenly die off just because we do have a war.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or something terrible does happen, a polar shift or whatever. I don't think humanity just dies off. We've been through all this stuff before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in the past. But as far as the Christian worldview goes, I think, because one of their things is that you're not supposed to be of this world. Right one of their things is that you're not supposed to be of this world, right? So something must be wrong with the world if you are not supposed to be of this world.
Speaker 2:All right, let me take this down to a little bit more different thing is there. Do you believe there is something spiritual going on or something? Because, I'm sorry, I've tiktok social media in general. We see these people and some of these people aren't quite, they're not right in the head.
Speaker 3:No, they're not.
Speaker 2:There's a lot more of them and people get into a whole lot more emotional and trigger the whole nine yards. Is there something else going on here spiritually that's causing do you believe that might be causing this up war?
Speaker 3:I think some of it is the fact that we live in a world where every single well just about every single person on the face of this planet has the ability to voice their opinion. Yes, my opinion has to matter. My opinion is the greatest opinion ever.
Speaker 2:You need to hear it, you need to believe me, and if you don't, I'm going to get really emotional and angry go on and say and I'm going to go on a tirade you must believe and live your life exactly the way I live mine, if you're not.
Speaker 3:You're not worth it. Yes.
Speaker 2:Now again, is this a spiritual problem or is there something else going on here that's causing this disconnect of community?
Speaker 3:again. I think it is the fact that every single person can disconnect and essentially reconnect. I think it's too much individual. I don't want to really want to say it's too much individuality. It's too much of I'm the only person who's right, and people are kind of seeing examples of people who are world leaders and people get highly emotional if they disagree with their favorite little world leader. Um, I, I don't know. I wouldn't call it spirituality, I'd call it a crisis of ego crisis of ego yes over anything else yes all right, I can see that.
Speaker 2:I can actually see that that that's more of a crisis of ego and this may be something asymptomatic of you know everybody gets a trophy. Everybody's perfect, I'm sorry. Not everybody's perfect of everything.
Speaker 3:No, my goodness. No, we all have our flaws, but there are some people in this world that people think are perfect, like nothing they could say could ever be wrong. They're never going to do any wrong, and if you disagree with me that they have done something wrong, you're evil, you're the opposite.
Speaker 2:You deserve to have all of your rights taken away, but it does seem like here lately that people seem to be more I don't like you, so I want to attack you.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Faster than when I think me and you were younger people had more conversations. Yes or debates about this without really trying to get mad at each other.
Speaker 3:I think it's the you're behind the screen effect, because when you're face to face with somebody, you see them as a human being, right, I think a lot of times when people are arguing with somebody over the internet, there is a mental disconnect, like on the surface, but I mean, it's not a person you're talking to, even though it is I feel I can even feel that slight disconnect on like zoom when we're
Speaker 2:doing meetings even when you're there with people that you know personally, there's still this slight disconnect, because they're on a screen, yes, and they're not in the room for you and again it's.
Speaker 3:I think some of it is energy like you're not. If you're arguing with somebody on the internet, you can't feel that person's energy. You can feel their anger but you're not feeling their actual personal energy well, again is it was the.
Speaker 2:It's the same argument like with emails and stuff like that. Why I could write an email and say something to me sounded me being sarcastic and witty. Somebody else might think of it as being me being an ass yeah, because you are typing.
Speaker 3:It's hard to convey sarcasm, humor um that kind of stuff. It's hard to convey that just over typing right and and then.
Speaker 2:But now video you get a little bit better, but there's still somewhat of a disconnect there because body language is important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if somebody is trying to make a point and all you're seeing is what they're typing and what they're typing has come across angry, but in their face if you saw their faces, they were typing that you might be able to see their frustration. You might be able to see their sadness regarding the topic. You might be able to see, you know in their eyes what they're.
Speaker 2:They're struggling with something else but I hate to be this way. Now, look, having a conversation on the phone with someone, though, isn't the same no, it's not are you? Are you with me? Why you can actually feel more connected just having a phone call with somebody versus over the internet yeah, because? Because you can put emotion in your voice okay, well, I mean, you're getting through the voice, through the video cam, and yeah, so you're getting all that, but yet there's still that disconnect with video. Again, you see what I'm asking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Again, it's because for there to be a true human connection, you have to be in a same space with somebody sharing your energy with them and them sharing their energy with you. And we're sharing our energies right now, talking to each other, right, and we're sharing our energies right now talking to each other.
Speaker 2:Right, but again, could it be that the fact is that the electronic devices don't necessarily allow those energies to come across as a little too much, especially when we're talking about computers and electronics. Unlike a phone, where it was a little bit more basic.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. It's block, it's just blocking all the humanity, where all you get is just I don't. It's not raw emotion, it's just emotion on paper and people. It's easy to rip up a piece of paper.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But it's not easy. It's not as easy to go. I disagree with you, so I'm just going to punch you in the face right here. Yeah, it's a lot easier to call somebody an idiot on the Internet than it is to see to call somebody an idiot to their face. Because if you call somebody an idiot to their face, chances are you're going to see that emotional response and you're going to feel bad about it.
Speaker 2:Well, sometimes You're not going to Well sometimes.
Speaker 3:If you're calling somebody an idiot over the Internet, right, whatever they type is not going to hit you as hard as if you were face-to-face.
Speaker 2:Again, it's easy to sit at home and become the chair coach in a game and sit there and yell at the TV yes, because it's not going to really make a difference.
Speaker 3:It's not going to make a difference. But what's going on, I think, especially with what's going on in the Middle East, is they've always been like this. That's a long line. It's a long line there's religious history and everything, and the fact that I think we are, as a society, losing our ability to communicate effectively because we don't communicate face to face anymore, Because even these world leaders can type a tweet out that says you guys suck.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And the whole of that country has a visceral reaction to that.
Speaker 2:You know, but I mean I had to be this way. Yes, in a private maiden you turn around like it's someone. No, you suck yeah, can actually start a conversation.
Speaker 3:You can start a conversation. It's it's on on twitter. It's like you suck, that's the end of it. There can be a million comments underneath that, but there's it's still not an actual conversation. It's just people commenting their thoughts on a computer, not face-to-face Right. That is one of our biggest issues. It's not something that's wrong with the world itself, not with the earth, it's humanity. I think we are losing our humanity.
Speaker 2:Could this be a self-fulfilling prophecy? Because you get tired of going out there getting beat up. You don't care anymore. Then you get a little bit more ruder yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can see that. Are you with me there? Because we're living so much of our lives online, so many people can just beat you up one, up one side and down the other. That's gonna affect you, that's gonna really affect you. And yeah, in turn, when you come back at them, you can come back at them 10 times worse and it just escalates the situation but again, I still think the problem there is is everybody keeps on thinking that everybody should live their lives like they do.
Speaker 2:Yes, Instead of realizing I live my life like this for me and you live your life for you.
Speaker 3:The majority of people think like that. Well, that's not how I would do that. You're weird Because you're weird you're wrong. Because you're wrong. I'm going to make sure you pay for it.
Speaker 2:Right, if you ever watch Scooby-Doo and the whole weird combinations of food that they talked about, all right, here's. The sad part is there are people out there who like those combinations of foods.
Speaker 3:But that doesn't make them wrong.
Speaker 2:No, it's just what they like.
Speaker 3:I you know and let's say, because I like tortilla chips just dipped in sour cream. A lot of people think that's weird, but it tastes good to me. Well, I mean, do I deserve to have a stone thrown at me because I like that?
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's at least one person out there who would like pickled flavored ice cream.
Speaker 3:And it exists. There's mac and cheese flavored ice cream and I'm sure somebody out there is like that's the best ice cream I've ever had in my life. That doesn't mean I'm going to call you a pariah and just exclude you from ever interacting with me again because you like that macaroni and cheese flavored ice cream.
Speaker 2:But I mean it's true, I've seen people do that Like I can't be friends with someone who does that.
Speaker 4:Why not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I find it funny because the majority of times I hear this, all I can keep on thinking about is when I came out of the closet. It's still the same thing. You just found out new information about me, so we can't be friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the same. Yeah, okay, so you like pickles and ice cream?
Speaker 3:You're a little freaky, yeah a lot of it is just focusing too much on the differences and thinking that you're just wrong for being different, instead of just thinking about how strange what that person likes is, ask yourself but what do we have in common? There is not a single person on this planet that you don't have at least one thing in common with, because we all have to eat, we all have to breathe air. We all have to drink water. We all want to live under a roof. Right.
Speaker 2:There's certain things that are required for living.
Speaker 3:We all are just working toward being happy, most of us at least. I mean, there are probably some people on there who that's their joy in life is making other people unhappy, but most of us we're just working toward being happy so.
Speaker 2:So what do you think the mindset is of these people who who sit back and think that you must live your life the way I do?
Speaker 3:because here now we're taught that you can't be wrong, like, oh, we can't be wrong. It's like I can't admit I'm wrong. I can't admit that what I'm doing is strange.
Speaker 2:See here's what's confusing me about this? Because we have this going on in society, but why at the same time?
Speaker 3:oh, live your own truth but when that person goes to live their own truth and it's counter to someone else's truth. Oh geez, here we go, like I can't associate with you anymore right.
Speaker 2:so again, that's the hard part that just really freaks me out, because when you're telling someone to go off and be a unique, weird individual and then condemning them at the same time, yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 3:Why are people so quick to condemn?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I mean, don't get me wrong If you think the best lifestyle for you is to go off and molest little kids. No, that's my line right there, as long as how, or if you think it's all right to go out and force yourself upon oh, absolutely not whatsoever.
Speaker 3:No, my theory is as long as you are not physically harming another human being or emotionally harming another human being, I don't give a shit how you live your life.
Speaker 2:So where do you think we should draw that line? When does individuality and the group or the community behavior needs to be more in line with each other?
Speaker 3:physical. It's, like I said, just physical and emotional harm if something you're doing, if you're infringing on someone else's.
Speaker 2:We all should believe, if we infringe it on someone else's rights, that we don't want it done because we don't want somebody else to infringe upon our rights but then you're left with some people view other being able to practice other religions in America as infringing on their right to be a Christian Right.
Speaker 3:But it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not. It's not Again us being pagan does not infringe on the rights of Christians.
Speaker 3:No, we're not telling them that they can't, but some of them are viewing like oh, I can't force my Christianity on somebody else. You're infringing on my right, but you're not.
Speaker 2:Technically, if you look at the Christian, they have a mandate in their religion to preach the Gospels, to go out, and they do Again. So that is part of their beliefs, alright, and again, don't have a problem with them doing it.
Speaker 3:Yes, but at a certain point. But you're crossing a line as an individual.
Speaker 2:No, if I look at them, say no, I do not want to participate in this and that's when they take offense, that's when they're when, that's when they go.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're infringing on my rights because you don't want to hear it you.
Speaker 2:You can sit there and preach it all you want, right here on this street corner. I can go down to the other street corner and keep on going.
Speaker 3:But because you just ignored them and walked down the street corner, some of them will go. Oh, you're not listening to me. You're infringing on my rights to be Christian.
Speaker 2:Right, and I realize there are always going to be somebody out there to push it. I mean've met pagan. I've met some pushy pagans over the years too oh yeah, there's pushy people in every religion that will sit there and go oh my god, no, you mean, you don't see this. Oh my god, I mean, don't even get me started on the whole initiation, and yeah self-initiation and all the trouble that brings up.
Speaker 2:So again, I still see it there too. But when is it appropriate for a community regard, regardless for christ or not, for us?
Speaker 3:to all go.
Speaker 2:Okay, when you are emotionally harming someone is when you should draw that line. All right, so, but some community? So again, this is all a little confusing for everybody, because we're sitting here saying that there are some times where, yes, we have to all act and behave the same to a certain extent, all right. Why, at the other time, no, we need to all act and behave the same. To a certain extent, all right, while at the other time, no, we need to be individuals and we often have a hard time separating those two.
Speaker 3:There's a difference between the way I act at home when I'm eating dinner versus the way I act when I'm having dinner at a friend's house or out in public. Yeah, because I mean you have to be mindful of other people when you're out in public.
Speaker 2:You know you still have the whole entire argument of how far you're going to push this with the oh, the two teenage lovers. You know when does it go too far, when doesn't it go too far? And again, depending on who the person is sitting in front of them, it could go too far and might not go if it's just holding hands versus them. Look like they're about to do a sex act in the middle of the living room.
Speaker 3:That's when you have to maybe take a step back and really look at the whole situation.
Speaker 2:I think we need to think of these things as a community. What we do put up with what we will tolerate you know out in public versus what's in private.
Speaker 3:It's yeah in private Say you and your husband are walking down the street, you just casually grab each other's hands and somebody behind you throw something at you. That's crossing the line, I can see that's intentionally making someone else's life harder than it needs to be I can see.
Speaker 2:I mean not that we've ever had that I know, but it's a hypothetical, it's a hypothetical that, yeah, it, it could happen. And yeah, you know, depending on my mood at the time, yes, there are multiple ways I might handle it.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's intentionally making someone's life harder than it has to be. If you don't like it, all you have to do is look the other way, because you holding a hand with your husband in public isn't actually harming anybody.
Speaker 2:No, no. But then you do have those people that go around. Well, you know, I don't want my kids to be exposed to this.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, that's just you not wanting to have to explain to your child there are other types of love in this world other than heterosexual.
Speaker 2:Well, again, when you're going out in public, things change. There's a certain there's a certain level where, yes, I I may want to protect my kids from all the bad stuff, but if I take you out in public, you're going to be exposed to things you normally are not used to seeing yes, and at that same, like you have to be willing to parent your child in all these situations, yes, but I think some of that is parents don't want to have to parent this situation. Okay, they just don't want to. I'm done adulting.
Speaker 3:They're like I don't want to have to explain this to my child, when you really should be explaining this to your child.
Speaker 2:You know well, you know well, they're good friends it's like it's, I'm sorry
Speaker 3:looking at a six-year-old when they see a couple going. No, they're just really good friends okay it's your job to make that person, to make your child a well-rounded human being, and avoiding having to explain things like that to them is counterintuitive to making them a well-rounded human being is that just because we're uncomfortable with these things, kind of like, you know, actually having the sex talk with kids?
Speaker 3:yes, it's because they're uncomfortable. It's not a topic they particularly know a whole lot about. They don't want to take the time to get educated on it because it does make them uncomfortable, when really the education is the cure to the uncomfortability. Right.
Speaker 2:It's to learn about it.
Speaker 3:Yes, but they don't want to. I think that is one of the big problems humanity is having. You can't grow if you stay in your comfort zone.
Speaker 2:No, you can't, can you?
Speaker 3:No, you cannot If you don't take the time and make yourself uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Learning should be uncomfortable At some point.
Speaker 3:yes, uncomfortable learning should be uncomfortable at some point. Yes, you have to be uncomfortable. Yes, to grow as a person yes, you're gonna deal with concepts that you might not like you're gonna shut yourself down and say no, you're wrong, because you don't want to make yourself uncomfortable and learn this person's other point of view.
Speaker 2:Makes no sense to me.
Speaker 3:I think that's really what it boils down to. It's everybody just being comfortable in their own bullshit.
Speaker 2:So, at the end of the day, what we're saying is there's nothing wrong with the world.
Speaker 3:It's humanity.
Speaker 2:It's only humanity and our perception of what in the world is going on.
Speaker 3:It's absolutely humanity and their perception. And with the world is going on, it's absolutely humanity and their perception.
Speaker 2:And with that, let's go get some coffee.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and.
Speaker 4:Reddit. See your blazing fires, and so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks, thank you.
