Pagan Coffee Talk

Magic Helps Most When It Changes You First

• Life Temple and Seminary • Season 5 • Episode 15

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Magic works best when it isn’t your first move. We dig into the real questions that make spellcraft effective: how to choose duration, when timing matters, which forms channel your focus, and why spells should always start with a clear reading and a dose of honesty about your role in the result. 

We explore timing without dogma. Urgent needs don’t wait for the moon, yet aligning with the waxing and waning cycle gives your intention a boost. We talk through seasonal rhythms, planetary hours, and the Chaldean order for those who love precision, while stressing that complexity isn’t automatically stronger. The goal is flow, not friction: work with nature when you can, and move when you must.

We push back on “spell-a-day” culture and highlight the limits of magic: it won’t break physics, and it can’t replace responsibility. Spells amplify momentum you create—job work after you apply, healing alongside treatment, love after you show up. The deeper truth we land on is that most magic changes the caster first. Shift mindset, align behavior, and the world responds. If that approach to spellcraft speaks to you, subscribe, share with a friend who practices, and leave a review to help more seekers find the show.

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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to Technic CopyCon. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.

SPEAKER_06:

All right, so you go and you decide that you need to cast a spell. Now, again, we've talked about this before. In our arsenal of stuff, spells are like the last tool that we use.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. It's a last resort.

SPEAKER_06:

It's a last resort. All right. It's not the first thing we pull out or we go, hey, just cast a spell for this. But when we just do decide to cast a spell, I think there's some decisions. And let's discuss how in the world we make those decisions, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure.

SPEAKER_06:

All right. So you're casting a spell regardless of what it's for, all right? Well, I guess it really does depend on what it's for. I think it does. Depending on what you want to do. I guess the first thing we need to decide is the length of the spell. How many days is it going to take us to complete the spell or not? Is it a one-shot wonder spell or is it going to be a day spell?

SPEAKER_02:

I was going to say, is it going to be done in stages?

SPEAKER_06:

Right. I mean, because there are some spells that can last what, six months to possibly a year?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

To some extent.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, and well, I was going to say, I think when it comes to that, I think that's um that's a personal decision. I mean, how much effort do you really want to put into it? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06:

True. Well, well, again, we we have we do have items. Like we have a jar that there's a spell on to never make it empty or full. It's just a change jar. And again, it's still a permanent spell, but every so often we do reinforce the spell.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Sometimes. Yeah, are you with me? It's not we do it once a year or anything, but we do occasionally reinforce it. So is that still an is that still an ongoing spell that's been going on for years now?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. I mean, I mean it is, but I I think I think for something like that, yeah, you're gonna have to do some reinforcements every once in a while. You know, if you've got a quote unquote permanent spell going on, I think you still need to reinforce it.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, like like some people do that whole entire spell where they have keys that they don't own the lock to, that you touch each window and each door, say a little incantation, and then hang this all above your door to help ward off thieves. Now, again, while we would sit there and go, hey, you know what else wards off thieves? Locking your doors. Have an alarm system.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Ignoring all that for a second, but the idea there is to give it a little extra protection, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Look at reinforcing on long-term spells. Look at reinforcing like maintenance on your house.

SPEAKER_06:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

You've built the structure, but every once in a while you gotta go back and you gotta maintain it, otherwise the structure's gonna fall.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, but my question is is since you're only doing the spell for the for the sake of argument for what we're talking about here, once a year, is that each year it's a new spell, or is it just that one spell keeps on going forever? Are you are you see what I'm saying asking?

SPEAKER_02:

It's it's a stack effect.

SPEAKER_06:

I I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you.

SPEAKER_02:

If you've okay, like with the with the change jar. It's been set up so that it never goes empty.

SPEAKER_06:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

So that's that's gonna, it's an ongoing, but every once in a while, again, you gotta maintain it.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. I mean, again, there there's no contract made here. There's no you're not giving your word or anything, so you're not enslaving or bargaining with something else.

SPEAKER_02:

No, we're not we're not we're not working with outside entities or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06:

Outside entities or anything like that. So again, if you happen to miss it one year or you know, a month or you know, if you always did it in December and the next year you happen to do it in January, it's not really gonna mess up anything.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_06:

The spell's just going to continue. It's just refilling up the you're we're looking at it more like refilling up the gas tank at this point. Yes. We're going this long.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_06:

All right. Now, unlike if we were going to do if we were going to do a healing spell, I I would probably do a seven-day healing spell versus just one shot.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Any particular reason?

SPEAKER_06:

Because of the well, just because of the nature of healing spells that, you know, you heal one thing and another thing, and doing so it shows a problem somewhere else and so forth and so on.

SPEAKER_02:

I gotcha.

SPEAKER_06:

Healing spells also take a lot of energy and stuff like that, too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_06:

Doing a less intense healing spell for seven days might be a little bit easier for you to physically handle versus a one-shot which is going to drain you all completely at one time.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. Yep, and that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_06:

And which, you know, you that person might, depending on the illness, might need all that extra energy over a longer period of time.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and it's also, I mean, you look at it, if you expend it all at one time, then you're not getting the full benefit, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_06:

It's sort of like it's sort of like the doctor sitting there telling you to take all you make sure you take all your antibiotics, even if you feel better.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Well It's sort of the way I look at these seven-day spells for healing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but I was gonna say it would be kind of like it would be like taking the maximum dose on something and then having to wait an X amount of time before you can take something else, because if you don't, then you'll overdose.

SPEAKER_06:

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02:

So I think it's kind of like that. So it's better to kind of spread it out. I mean, when you recover from surgery or whatever, you don't do it all in one day. So why would why would this healing spell be any different?

SPEAKER_06:

All right. Well well, what about something like a a job, a spell for a job? I mean, are you gonna do a one-shot thing, or is this something we're gonna do for seven days? Or shoot, I've even seen the spells where in the world you put a spell on a plant with maybe coins in the dirt to, and as the plant grows, your prosperity is supposed to grow. And again, that's not that's more of a long-term spell, and what happens when the plant dies.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Well, you know, that's something different. You know, I mean, you know, not everybody's got green thumbs, and no, but I think I think for a job, I don't know, I've done a spell for a job, and I just did a one-shot deal.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I had already put in all the applications, and the only thing I was looking to do was to increase my visibility on those applications. So um, you know, I wasn't trying to push anybody out of the way, even though I know I probably did somewhere down the line. But uh, you know, but doggone it, I needed a job. Yeah, I don't think you need to do a long drawn-out thing for that, because again, for something like that, there's your effort also has to be put into that.

SPEAKER_06:

All right. Well, when we're considering spells, the next thing we need to consider is timing. Correct. I mean, again, why no, I don't think you necessarily have to wait for a specific solar astrological event or moon phase or any of this stuff to necessarily cast a spell, but on the other hand, there's a difference between working with the flow of water and trying to work against it.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, sometimes sometimes spells have to be, and sometimes it again, if it's for illness or sickness, you're not gonna wait, you know. I'm sorry, you you can't die quite yet. You need to wait another month until the full moon's back so I can cast.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

It's not something we're gonna do. No, you know, again, if if you were truly desperate to get, you know, money or something like that, you're gonna cast the spell right now and not wait until the right day of the week and the time of day, sun hour, right, or the lunar phase and stuff like this. But I also will sit there and tell you if you can wait and you can work with nature, it's better.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But it's not necessary because again, I I believe those things give a slight boost. You can tap into energies that you normally can't.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, sure. I mean, you know, you you look at uh surfers, they don't go against the wave to you know to to actually ride the wave. You can't do that. But well, I mean you probably could, but it's not gonna be easy. So I think I think in uh in a lot of ways, yeah, it's the same thing. It's always easier and it flows better.

SPEAKER_06:

When you're working with nature, right, when you work with it. And again, when we talk about all these cycles, well, we're talking about like the lunar cycles, you know, from from a a waxy moon, right? You know, so a waxy moon going from new to full is a good time for spells to of increasing. Going from full to new is a good time to get rid of stuff, right? Do spells of banishment and stuff like this.

SPEAKER_02:

Typically speaking, yes.

SPEAKER_06:

But we also see the same pattern within the larger count or in the larger will of the year. So, like anything after Sawin is considered the dark half of the year, and this is a good time to do those spells to get rid of stuff even without the moon's influence. Regardless of the moon's influence, that dark time or the winter time and the fall time is a good time to get rid of stuff. And if you are doing it with getting rid of stuff during that time, along with the timing it with the moon going from full to new, you get double the boost, sort of.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

And of course, the same thing would be said for the summertime and going from full, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Right, from new to full, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, and again, you I'm not sitting there telling people don't sit up there and look up the planetary hours or don't use them. I'm just saying if you got the time and the patience to do that, great. But I think I've done it with for one spell in my whole entire life where it's it had to be done between this time and this time. And I was doing it for seven days and I had to calculate each single day where I was in the was in the right planetary hour. Now, how do we do that? Now, just to ask, do you remember how to do that? How to calculate the planetary hours?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I don't offhand, but um, I'm sure there's plenty of information out there.

SPEAKER_06:

If I remember correctly, and you can tell me if this sounds right, you take the hours of daylight and divide it by the number of planets, which are 12 or the 12 zodiacs, or the or the planets, or by the nine planets, I believe. And because the the planetary hours do not match up with clock hours, they're not just 60 minutes long, they can be longer or shorter than that, depending on the length of the day. Hang on. Yes, if we're gonna cut out the part where we're doing research in the middle of I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, find sunrise and find sunset. Okay, so you look up your sunrise and sunrise for the exact location of where you are. Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. You need the length of day for your location.

SPEAKER_02:

So then you divide your daylight into twelve equal parts. Same thing for night.

SPEAKER_06:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Each day of the week is ruled by a planet. The first hour after sunrise is always ruled by that planet. So then you follow the Chaldean order: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon. And then you repeat it.

SPEAKER_06:

Right, because again, the length of day can keep on repeating over and over as long as you got daylight.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Because again, day the length of day changes over the year, so that changes how long one planetary hour is.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06:

All right, and then the same thing at night, because again, when the night starts to lengthen, it changes and makes them longer or shorter accordingly.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_06:

How complicated is this? But again, what we're we're starting to there here's this line. We're starting to get into that high magic.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's well or slow magic. Yeah, it's what we we call high magic.

SPEAKER_06:

High magic is it is what we're talking about here is that you you you're gonna make a one out of a out of a tree or out of the wood that best harmonizes with the spell you may use.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. So if you're gonna do that and you're gonna follow this pattern, then you need to find out what planet rules the wood. Wood. Right. And then you need to find the planetary hour for that planet to do it during the day.

SPEAKER_06:

So again, this is how complicated spells can get. I mean, spells can get as complicated as waiting for certain astrological events to happen where certain uh star constellations rise or at the sunset or at the sunrise, or a certain planetary alignment, and stuff like that happens, all right. So again, working with these energies can be that complicated, or that or you can be as easy as, hey, I'm just gonna put this crap in a jar and say a few words and bury it in the backyard and it's done.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean you can go as simple or as complicated as you like. You know, but uh but just keep in mind, just because it's more complicated doesn't necessarily mean it's better. No, and just because it might be a one-off doesn't necessarily mean it's better either.

SPEAKER_06:

No. No. But again, depending on what you're doing and why you're doing it, you may decide to pick one of these. Now, what about forms? All right, and what do I mean? Are you gonna do candle magic? Are you gonna do a witch's ball? Are you gonna do a witch's bottle, or are you going to, you know, just take a coin down to the river and do a sort of a wishing well type thing?

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

What helps you pick those things, that style? I mean, and again, I'll admit most witches find a style that they like that works for them and they stick with it a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of times, yeah. Yeah, I think that's you like I think that's trial and error. If you know, I've done some things that interested me at the time, found I didn't really like the way it worked, and tried something else. You know, I I think trial and error is the best way to figure out what works best for you.

SPEAKER_06:

Do you think it's fun? Do you think it's more fun or more intense when you have to pre-do something for a spell? Like if you're gonna, if you're gonna use a witch's ladder, all right, which is nothing more than taking some cords, braiding them together, and then taking that braid and start tying objects into it, you know, feathers, stones, uh, other things that make you think of what in the world the spell is. By and the idea here is by doing this, by doing the actions and thinking about what you're doing, each thing you're doing is putting more and more energy into this thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, and what you do with it afterwards is either A, you hang it up somewhere where you can see it all the time, or you take it out to the yard and bury it, or even sometimes even throw them into rivers and stuff like that, let them be carried away and nature to unravel it.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

So uh what what what makes you well? I guess what makes you pick something like that versus just doing, you know, going outside and taking bird seeds and spreading them on the ground to in a symbol that you think best represents what in the world you want and charging that up just for the birds to carry off the spell to make it work.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think I think it depends on what your goal is and how and how invested in that goal you are. But I also think that if you're if you're doing a spell for something, you're already gonna be pretty invested in the goal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I do find that when you're doing things and it's repetitive in nature, like doing the witch's ladder, it can help put you in a in a frame of mind where um where each action reinforces that goal.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think and I think in some ways it can be more powerful. If you don't have time to do that, that's a different story.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. Well then the one thing, no, the one thing I will sit here and say, you should always do before casting a spell is do a reading on the spell itself.

SPEAKER_02:

Of some kind, yeah. You need to meditate, you need to do a reading, you need to do some type of divination.

SPEAKER_06:

You need to do some form of divination. Is this is it even worth doing the spell or not? All right, or or trying to figure out, you know, okay, if I do this spell, what's gonna happen? Give yourself sort of a heads up to even, like I said, to see if it's even worth it, because again, there's a lot of spells where you go and do it and you you have unintentioned consequences. Our famous one we like to use is the lady that wanted the fresh start, and then wounds up, you know, her whole family pretty much abandons her and she's just left with her clothes in the car. And then when she asks, everybody's kind of like, Well, how much more of a fresh resort do you need? You know, again, again, things you gotta think about, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I I I was gonna say, I think in in everything you do, even if you have a pretty good idea that it's going to work and that it's you know that it will work in the way it's intended to, you still have to understand that there is the chance of unintended consequences in everything you do.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, well, again, we we talked, well, you just said it earlier, you know, you you do a spell for uh a job, we believe it just puts your resume just on top of everybody else's. That's just as qualifying as you are. Doing a spell for a job you're not qualified to do might get you the job, but it's sure nor not going to keep you the job.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Again, you still have to do your part.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. The the whole entire thought there is you're out there, you're putting that in applications. Nobody's gonna come to your door and go knock, knock, knock. Hey, I got this hundred thousand dollar job. I I I came just to track you down. It doesn't happen. Not in today's world. You know, you get you got to be one of those highly intelligent, super genius. Probably. Which none of us are. So what else can we talk about when it comes to spells? I know we don't teach spell work and blah blah blah and all this, but we don't tell people not to use spells either. And we tend not to teach them because again, there's 50,000 books out there. Now we will teach magic theory how we think it works, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think we've covered the biggies.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. I mean, and again, if you're going out there just to cast a spell every day, like, hey, I'm working out, I I don't think it actually works that way.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, you mean like a different one every day? Like a seven-day challenge.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, yeah, the well, you know, people were doing for a while there, like during I think COVID, I kept on seeing a lot of the spell a days. Somebody, somebody kept on doing one spell a day, every day, for like a year, and I'm like, okay, no. Doing doing this is not helpful.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that's that's spreading yourself really thin. Yes. You've you've got too much energy that's divided in so many different directions, it's nearly impossible.

SPEAKER_06:

And you got and you and you got the possibility of spells conflicting with other spells.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06:

So, you know, so forth and so on. And how how do you know it didn't work because you cast a spell that just does the complete opposite of what you just did? Because you're too busy trying to cast the spell instead of thinking about what you're doing, right? And why?

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. So I I think that's I think that's an important thing to remember as well.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, what can't a spell do? There are, I mean, are spells, do you believe spells are just completely 100% all the time? You know, again, I've said this before. There I I've never seen a spell or anything that's gonna make the earth start to rotate backwards.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

There's not too many spells that I know of that's gonna get rid of a mountain.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. They're not gonna they're not gonna work against the laws of physics, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06:

Spells are not a cure all, they can't fix everything.

SPEAKER_02:

No, they can't.

SPEAKER_06:

Healing spells, while is great. At some point, the healing spells don't work anymore just because it's that time.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

There are limitations on spells.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

But again, you hear a lot of these people talking, they're like, oh, it doesn't really seem that way. They sort of girt around that issue a lot of times, or they pretend like it doesn't that that limit isn't there at some point.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I I I think you do have to recognize that there is a limit to everything that we do. So Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Well again, you you you may cast a spell to find love, but it doesn't help that you're not dating anyone or trying to date anyone.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. You know, so I like I said, for most for most spells, I think there's a bit of effort that has to be placed on your part, or I should say on the caster's part. Right. If you're just if you're gonna do it and not do anything physically about say it's for a job or you know, a situation or whatever, if you're not gonna do your part to get out of that or to change that, then that spell's not gonna do you any good.

SPEAKER_06:

What's the point of me casting a spell to heal your liver if you're just gonna go out and drink a fifth the next night?

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

You know, I uh there is some responsibility there too. So, you know, how how does that actually help? Not changing behaviors just because you cast a spell doesn't make no sense to me.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

So again, there yeah, there's a little bit of a psychological thing that you gotta do here. You gotta sort of help yourself.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and I I've said it before, and it's probably a hot take. Me personally, I think spells are it's uh it's a way to change your mindset on something that allows you to actually make said change.

SPEAKER_06:

The argument I want to get there is you know, most spells we cast on ourselves to twist ourselves to get through that shape that we need to get through that hole that's going on there.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Get to the other side. I just we're doing more to ourselves than we are to the actual physical world. Yes. When we cast spells.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, and I and I think that's the key takeaway to the whole um idea of changing your reality.

SPEAKER_06:

Right. It's literally changing your viewpoint or your thoughts on reality, not changing reality itself.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06:

There is an objective truth in the world, you know. There are there they do exist. The sky is blue, and yes, you know, trees are green and brown, and and I don't care how many times you sit there and try to call a horse a cat, it doesn't change the fact that it's a horse.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

But I do hear a lot of people, and they seem to want to talk about some of this stuff that we do so abstractly and forget that there is an objective truth to reality.

SPEAKER_02:

Hmm. Well, I don't I don't think you can. I don't think you'll be successful that way.

SPEAKER_06:

Well, I don't think you will either. I mean, it is a problem. I and I guess that's my hot take, you know, on all of this is we got people out there that do that and want to make it and want to make it seem like spells and magics can fix everything. When it really can't. So all we can do is work on ourselves.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I mean, that's know thyself.

SPEAKER_06:

Go figure. You're ready for I I I do know one thing. Are you ready for some coffee?

SPEAKER_02:

I am ready for some coffee.

SPEAKER_06:

All right. If you like this, like, share, leave a comment. Right. Rate us, review.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media. Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00:

We travel down the stroden path, the maze of stone empire. Just hold my hand as we pass by steel blazing fire. And still it is the end of our days, to off with me till morning great. And still it is the end of our days, top with me till morning.

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