Inside A Coven’s Degree System: Roles, Skills, Responsibility

Titles don’t make priests; habits do. We open the curtain on how our coven’s degree system really works, from the first step as a neophyte to the long apprenticeship of third degree, and why no one “graduates” just by finishing classes. Advancement in our tradition is a spiritual recognition, grounded in presence, character, and service, and affirmed by leaders who watch how you show up when it counts.

We start with the basics: what we expect from new students, how we teach the structure of our temple, history, ethics, and meditation. Instead of handing out spells, we dig into magic theory and the witch’s pyramid, connecting principles to practice so you can understand cause, effect, and responsibility. You’ll hear how our 300-plus-page lecture materials fit into a living tradition, and why the “why” matters more than the “what.”

Then we move into the deep water of second degree. This is where timelines stretch, because readiness isn’t a date on a calendar. You choose a field of expertise and build meaningful competence—whether that means turning herbalism into apothecary-level safety with drug interaction knowledge or studying music theory and sound’s impact on the brain. Alongside the technical learning comes pastoral care: counseling skills, legal boundaries, confidentiality, and the crucial ability to say, “This is beyond my expertise.” Reliability and follow-through become the quiet metrics of leadership.

Finally, we talk about the real apprenticeship of third degree: sitting inside the messy, vital conversations that keep a temple healthy, aligning materials with belief, and choosing the needs of the whole over personal preference. Third degree often points to running a temple or succeeding a leader, which is why it can take years. Many choose to remain at second—and that choice is honorable. If you’re called to this path, let curiosity, service, and consistency be your compass.

If this resonates, subscribe, share with a seeker who needs clarity, and leave a review with the one question you still have about the path. Your questions shape what we explore next.

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Chapters

• 0:15 Welcome And Listener Support
• 0:25 Why Explore The Degree System
• 1:01 Degrees As Spiritual Recognition
• 3:04 What A Neophyte Really Is
• 5:46 First Degree: Foundations And Theory
• 10:55 Ethics, Meditation, And Mysteries
• 15:20 Curriculum Scope And Materials
• 18:17 Enter Second Degree: Depth And Timing
• 22:56 Choosing A Field Of Expertise
• 28:35 Real Standards: From Herbalism To Apothecary

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Welcome to Peggy and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Alright, so a while back we did a podcast on starting your own coven.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Yes.

Degrees As Spiritual Recognition

SPEAKER_03 0:31

And we covered a lot of things in that podcast, briefly for the most part. Yeah. It was very brief. Right. It was just an idea of where to give starter points and things to help you get started along the way, right? Right. So we sat and discussed this, and we thought, well, why don't we cover the degree system for those who were wanting to start. Right. And follow a degree system. Why don't we cover it a little bit more? All right. And of course, again, disclaimer. This is the way we do it. This is the way we follow it. It's that's just it. It's just a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

It's only set in concrete for us, not everybody else. Right. All right. Again, for those who want to start their own temple and be more traditionalist, yes, we do a degree system. Right. All right. Now let me start off in preference this, all right? And our tradition. All right. Getting a degree or not getting a degree is not dependent on you finishing classes. Right. It is a spiritual matter which is left up to the high priestess to decide. I'm not saying that the priest doesn't have his input in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Right. And some sometimes she'll she'll rely on, you know, some of the second degrees, if they've had especially if they've had some interaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

So it's it's not This isn't school, this isn't high school, or just because you complete the classes does not mean you graduate. Right. Please understand that there is a spiritual component to this for us.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Right. And just because you don't get initiated doesn't mean we don't want you.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Doesn't mean we don't want you around or that you know we don't expect that somewhere down the line you will get initiated. Just a process.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Just a process. You're just not there yet. All right. Trust the process. Trust the process. So again, just because you got turned down the first year doesn't mean you might not be able to in the second year. Right. And no, I can't give you a straight answer on what those are and not.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

The reasons vary depending on the person. Right. And we can't it's so hard to specify any of those.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Right. Because again, it is a personal that's very to that person. It really is, yeah. All right. And that's for all three degrees.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Mm-hmm.

What A Neophyte Really Is

SPEAKER_01 3:02

All right. No offense to anybody. You start out as a neophyte.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

All right. So at least that's what we call you. And w what's the definition of a neophyte?

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Well, for us, hang on a minute, I'll get that. But for us, a neophyte is just simply a student. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Someone seeking of knowledge and as at lacks experience.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Right. So the official definition, or one of the official definitions of neophyte, is a person who is new to a subject, skill, or belief.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Again, not an insult.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

No, not at all. And it shouldn't be taken that way.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

All right. No, there's not too many requirements to be a neophyte. No. Besides show up.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

I mean Have an interest. Have an interest. Uh uh, you know, show a real interest. Yeah. And show up.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Well, again, again, yeah, the the only the the only requirement there is our initial meeting with you. And right. We're we're getting you to ask us questions. What do you want to know and what you don't want to know? And right.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

And we're also trying to get a feel, and this is good advice anyway. And I think we've covered this before as well. It's also a chance for the priests and the priestesses to get a feel for that person, see how they might interact with the rest of the group. It's also a chance for that person to get a feel for us to see if they even might, you know, see if they might clash.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I mean, they they could look at us going, okay, y'all just crazy. They've yeah, they've I'll just little cray cray and I'm moving along. We've had some people do that.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

And it's all right. It's okay. And it's fine. We know we're not for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

All right. Now, again, and that's all the real conversation is, and we sort of fill each other out. Right. So, I mean, that's neophyte, if you want to think about that as a degree.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yeah, and we don't and for our neophytes, we don't expect anything from them except for you show up to learn. To learn.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

That's your job, is to learn.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

You know, we don't expect you in the beginning, we don't expect you to follow protocol or anything like that until you've already learned about it. Once you've learned about it, we expect you to follow that.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Other than that, there's no real expectations for neophytes.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

No, there's really not. All right. And and again, I will admit, you know, yeah, in our temple, and if you listen to our first degrees, yes, neophytes get away with a lot.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, all right, and which we have to re which I normally have to at some point have to remind most first degrees. They were a neophyte and they got away with and they just don't realize it because, well, now they don't. Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

It happens.

First Degree: Foundations And Theory

SPEAKER_01 5:45

All right. But mainly when you're when you're when you're learning first, when you're learning first degree, you're most temples teach you how they function. Right. This is when you're teaching the way we're casting circles, what we believe in, the history. Um it's not very detailed.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

No, but what we are doing is we are preparing you to be a functioning priest or priestess within our group.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

And one of the big things we're telling you is why we're doing what we're doing. All right. And again, at the end of the day, those are those big mysteries everybody keeps on going, hey, what do you it it it's the why we do what we do. Exactly. You know, why we believe this and why we don't believe that or this. All right, it's as simple as that. Those are traditional mysteries.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah, and it's it's a chance for those things to come to light. It's a chance for the students to put those puzzle pieces together. Yep. And ask those questions and just again, put it all together. Put it all together.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

You know, it's it's seems simple, but it's not because again, we just rewrote our lecture series.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

And now it is a hold on.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Well, they we now have supplemental material for our lecture series, and it's a nice little book, and it's probably what, 400 pages?

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Well, the last page I see here really with writing on it is like 371. 371 pages. All right. And I'm not saying there's like a Ford, there's no Ford or anything in this book either. And that's just our tradition. That's not, you know, Celtic mythology and history and all that. That's a different book. And again, what what sort of things are we teach? What sort of things are we teaching in first degree? Generally speaking, not giving away. We normally first thing we do is we teach some history and some protocol and some boring stuff at the first. Then we also teach our history, which well, what we call witchcraft history, and then Celtic history or myth and legend. And then we teach, we sort of move into modern days a little bit. Right. So pretty dry subjects. Then we normally go over our ethics and morals, and that's a little bit more detailed oriented. Right, that's where things start getting interesting. Yeah. So um we do teach magic theory. Right. All right. No, we don't teach magic itself. So again, coming and asking me for a spell. I'm gonna look at you going, go buy a book. There's thousands of books out there. Go get a book. You know, well, hell, with the way it's going now, hell, you can ask AI to write you a spell and right.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Go to Reddit, go to Reddit, whatever. Or whatever form you can think of where people are willing to supply that stuff and just go ask.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Have at it. I mean, we're gonna teach you magic theory. What the reason we think it works and how it works and what it is, all right. Basically the witch's pyramid is what we believe in. So that's what we sort of teach the theory of.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Right. All right, now but that but that also ties into other aspects, not just magic.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

The witch's pyramid is more is more than just magic.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Right. I mean, it it does bring some of our ethics and morals into what we're doing and why. Anyway, again, still traditional mysteries that we're not gonna discuss. Right. All right, big old jerk circle there. Round and round we go. So uh let's see, what else do we teach? We of course we go over the the Lady Sheba laws, pretty much, and other things. You know, uh we teach some divination in there and of course meditation and stuff like that. Matter of fact, meditation comes pretty early. Yes, it does. So we want to get you meditating the way we're used to it and getting you there, which we've discussed in multiple. Let's see, what else do we teach, dear and what other subjects do we teach?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Oh, well, there's the the God experience, yeah, which goes along, sort of goes along with the meditation question.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

And stuff like this, you know, experience and deity, how we view it, how we don't, right, stuff like this. That's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Uh that's pretty much it for the basics. We call those the basic classes.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Or at least the basic subjects. I mean, again, right. We get into a whole lot more depth. There's a lot of stuff here we're skipping.

Ethics, Meditation, And Mysteries

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Right. All right. I mean, we we teach our circle casting. Right. Our way of doing things. And you know, we briefly cover death. Yeah. You know, your thoughts on that. And we kind of give you some stuff to think about and stuff you can go back to later and re-examine. Re-examine.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

So then we go to the second degree. Right. Now second now, second degree's a little funky. Because we'll we'll sit there and we'll we'll sort of try our best to do our classes for first degree within one year. Try to. It's a give or take. It's a give or take. All right. So roughly first degree takes about a year, right? Roughly speaking.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Second degree, on the other hand, could take as long as nine years to say it could take as long as the person wants it to or you know, needs it to.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Needs it to. Right. And the reason we're kind of vague on this is there's several reasons. A, it depends on when that person's ready.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Well, yeah, it depends on when they're ready to start.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

And and ready to actually dig their heels in and because again, you're not we are not going to try to push you to take your second degree. Or at least we're not going to try to. We may try to have conversations and see if you're ready.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Right. We might encourage you, but we're not going to push you.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Per se.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

So if we if we if we see that potential, then yeah, like you said, we're going to try to have some conversations with you, kind of nudge you. Right. But if but if you resist, if you don't, you know, I say resist, but uh if you just don't show any interest or you just not ready. We're we're not right.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

We're not gonna push you into it. You know. So again, that's why a second degree is a little funky. All right. Well, that's one of the reasons. That's one of the reasons. Another reason one of the biggest reasons though is that you have to pick a field of expertise.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

And we expect you to be proficient in that. All right. So it's not something where in the world you can go take a weekend class, we're not talking about something you go take a weekend class with right quick and come back. We're we're talking, we want you to understand this subject. Right. Hate to put you on the spot. What would i i if we had someone come up to us and go, hey, you know, my field of I want my field of expertise to be music, what do you think we would again, I we would turn to you, you're our music person here. What sort of things would you expect that person to be able to understand music?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Well, I would suggest.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

I mean, I'm trying to put that a little bit in context though.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yeah, no, I would suggest trying to find some uh courses somewhere, and I know there are some available outside of actual college degrees that you can take to kind of understand music theory and kind of how it works.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

There are some Say I I would sit there and say, I would I would want you to be able to explain to me who doesn't know anything about music theory, I would want this person to be able to the level it to explain music theory to me.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Right. There's um I know there's there is an online school that deals with um sound therapy. Um so I would suggest doing that because sounds make up music and knowing how those sounds kind of affect the brain, right? That's always good information to have. Um, you know, so I'd say that's a good place to start, and then whatever you can find on your own, because again, that's another thing that takes so long is we expect you to do this on your own.

Curriculum Scope And Materials

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yes. Nobody's gonna again. Well, you see, like, you know, when Lady Keegan came to us and said came to me and goes, okay, I'm ready for my second, and I want and my specialty is going to be herbalism. Right. What did I encourage her to be? I didn't encourage her just to go grab some books on herbalism. No. What did I do? I know I want you to find a certified class and learn apothecary. Yep. Is what I want. The way I'm looking at it, and I'm again, if you're an herbalist or anything, I'm not trying to be insulting, but herbalism to me is high school where apothecary is college. Right. That's the only way I'm seeing the difference of it. You know, the difference between being a doctor and a and a doctor's and a and a fit physician's assistant.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

I see herbalism more as it's more like a basic. Well, I won't even say basic. It's not basic. Um herbalism is more like the earthy side of it. Somewhat, yeah. Um, and also dealing with some of the metaphysical. Apothecaries go beyond that. That right. Like Lady Keegan, she deals with the metaphysical side of things, but she deals with drug interactions.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

So if you go to her and you say, Well, I'm on these medications, this is what I'm asking for. Right. She researches all of that, and then she knows what herbs you can take that won't affect your medications.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Exactly. So again, this this is the kind of expertise we're talking about when we encourage.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

So again, again, yes, if now if you want to stick with the metaphysical side of things, that's fine, but just be aware there are drug interactions that you should probably be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Be aware of and understand. Right. So again, now again, with that said, you know, I'm sorry, yes, if someone came up to me going, hey, I you know, I'd like to make counseling or therapy part of that, then then that would be the expectation is that you would go to school and learn as much as you can. Right. And it's not just some fly by night situation. Right. Now, with that said, are are some of the things that I mean again, there's no fly by night to learn blacksmithing. You know, I mean there are people out there who will teach it and knows it and all this, but you're not really going to find a are are you with me?

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah, you're not gonna find somebody who's just gonna teach you in a couple of days.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

No.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

You know. So go figure. But then depending on your area, finding a blacksmith is gonna be the tricky part. Right. Because that blacksmith may be four hours away from you.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Might be. So again, so again, a lot of options here.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

All right. So again, our second degrees have to have a field of expertise. Now, as far as training and stuff go, now our second degrees are allowed to counsel. Second degree, when you actually get into our the actual temple teaching classes, right? Again, there's a lot of stuff on counseling there. How to counsel people, how to talk to people. You know, when do you when do you protect craft over someone else's psychological problems? And when do you Right. And and I know that sounds really weird, but you know, there are situations in which we have to ask those questions, you know.

Enter Second Degree: Depth And Timing

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Well, and and you know, and you have to be aware of the legalities of confidentiality. As a priest, you you have a confidential aspect to your conversations with people. And you also have an obligation to be a first reporter if you know there's something going on. So you need to know the legal implications of what's going on there. So there are some things you need to be aware of, and this is this is kind of what we teach you.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I mean, it's it's counseling.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

I mean, you're you're missing we're we're literally messing with people's lives here, so you can't just No, it's a huge responsibility. It is. So again, but this is a big part of second degree. Mm-hmm. All right, because again, you're you're starting to learn how to interact with people and how personalities work.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

This is also a good time to start learning that phrase. This is not my area of expertise.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Just putting it out there. This is where you you you can throw that in.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

All right, because you need to understand, okay, no, that no no. I'm account, I'm counseling you on a spiritual level. You seem to need more of therapy. Right. No offense, but this goes beyond my field of expertise. You need to go to a therapist for this problem.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Here, I'll recommend one.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

And it's nothing against anybody else. I mean, it's just know your limits. Yeah. This is this is all part of that second degree training. Know your limits. Know your and you know, know where you can and can't go with things.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

You know, people get people get upset about stuff like this. And it is a fine line, and we have to be careful.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

All right. So again, I'm not I'm not going to sit there and say I ain't never had a second degree, walk up to me going, Hey, can we talk? I just had a conversation, counseling here. This is what I told them, this is what they said. What do you that's completely understandable because to me that's like you asking another cop would be it like. Like one therapist asking another therapist to do that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Again, not breaking any confidentialities, not no names, no nothing, just hey, this is what we talked about. I need some advice.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Advice. All right. Let's see. What what else do second degrees do? I'm gonna tell you now to just even start your second degree. I mean, there's gonna be some requirements there too. So you're gonna have to like maybe well for us, you're gonna you're gonna have to show that you you can cast circle without any issues. Right. And again, it's a practice thing. I'm sorry. There's nothing else you can do about that.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Right. Because again, we're we're preparing you for larger responsibilities within the priesthood.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Well again, we're we're we're prepping you at second degree, not becoming a sec not becoming a but when you're training for that, to work behind that altar. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Well, yeah. That's that's what I meant.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah, we're we're we're we're turning you into more of a spiritual leader. Leader. I mean, you're already a priest or a priest, priest or priestess then.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

So like I said, it's more extensive duties and responsibilities within the priesthood.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

We're also looking for behaviors and stuff like that. Yes. Seeing how you handle yourself in certain situations. You know, I'm I'm I'm sorry if you you're you're a person that don't tend to follow through a lot. We're not going to because again, the expectation is is when you're in that position, the person that's coming to you as a spiritual leader is going to expect follow-through.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Right. All there is to it. Right. And that may not that may not even be with the counseling, it could be with anything. It could be with anything. It doesn't you just you're you're expected, like you said, to follow through.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Regardless of what gre degree you are, priest and priestesses cannot drop the ball. No. All right. That is the best way to for anyone to look at you and going, why should I follow you?

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

You gotta think. Can you handle that responsibility?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

This is also a reason there's a lot of people just take first degrees.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Just saying. Just saying. I'm and and again, no sh no no shame there. No, absolutely not. All right.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

I mean, we need those people.

Choosing A Field Of Expertise

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Now, getting your third degree. I don't I haven't getting getting your third degree, it is it's a little it's a little bit even more complicated. Is it a little more on your own? It it's it it's a whole lot more on your own. Okay. All right. I I hate to put it this way. It it's more like it's more like being in more like a apprenticeship. Okay. All right, or being an intern. You know, the expectation is is if you're gonna be a third, you're you're you're gonna be shoved up to either your priest or priestess's butt all the time. Okay. All right. I mean that's that that's the only way to learn. You're gonna be sitting there when you you're gonna be sitting in the room when me and the lady are going at it with each other.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Right. And uh so I'm I'm gathering that this is more of this is like prep work for actually.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Actually running a temple. Well, again, and I'm and I'm gonna put it to you this way, and no offense to anybody, I do not see the reason to give someone their third if they're not going to be running a temple. Either you're hiving off to uh from us or you're taking mine or the lady's place. Right. Or so you're with me. Otherwise, what's the point of third degree?

SPEAKER_03 23:43

So theoretically, you could be in training for third degree for ten years, fifteen years.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Possibly. I mean, it really depends on the person. You know, especially if you have no plans of hiving hiving, and you're just waiting for one of us to, well, retire or really retire. Nobody wants that. And and again, that's not an offense to anybody. I mean, our hope is is either A, we got enough people interested to where, hey, can you go start your own temple?

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what every founder and every high priestess hopes for hopes for. Is that, oh, look, my children have gone off and done their own thing and still under my umbrella.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah. Third degree is not that complicated, but it is at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

So it's more about um how would you say it, the mechanics?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Well I well, I want to I'm gonna be honest with you, the the biggest part of learning third degree is to put yourself on the back burner a lot. Okay. All right. It's not my needs, it's the needs of the temple. Right. And again, it's not the needs of this one individual or that one individual, it's the what's the need of the whole entire group.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Oh shit. That means I've been doing it all along. I well again ever since I got myself.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Well again, that that's the big and again, but that's also hard for some people to learn.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Well, I think And then and to always th and to always think that way when it comes to this.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Yeah, and I it's well, and I think it's easier if I think it's easier if you've got somebody who is very active, who's always there, who's always helping, always contributing and who's always a gooch. I'm your sponge. Yeah, and nobody's gonna get that reference. Thank Anti Mame.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Anti-Mame.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Resolute, watch it. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yeah. You're Agnes Gooch.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah, that's literally what it is. That's you know, if you if you want to become a third, yes, you have to become an Agnes Gooch.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Right. You're always there, you're taking notes, you're you're helping.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

You're just sucking it all in.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

All right, because again, you you're you're sort of learning with what how we interact and how we talk and stuff like that. I mean, you've been in you've been in the center of those conversations between me and the lady. Yeah, I have. Some of them can go on and on and on. And the sad part is there's a lot of times, I'm sure for you, it sounds like we're going around in circles, but then you're like, wait a minute, how did they go from this to that is beyond me, but it happens.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

It does. And usually when I'm sitting in those conversations, which hasn't been in a while, but usually somewhere along the lines, she'll turn and look at me and ask me something. I'm like, what? I was not part of this conversation. But then she'll expect my input.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah. So I don't know how to explain those conversations. And again, I don't I do not know any other way for people to learn those.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Well, those conversations, I would say those conversations are more about the tedious things from Run and Temple. It's the classes, it's the material.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

It's it's making sure that the material reflects what we actually believe in and not some ideal. Right, but it's we would like everybody to put that.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

But it goes beyond that. It also, you know, you're also discussing your first degrees, your second degrees, your neophytes, you're discussing interactions, you're discussing, oh, well, this went well last time. Maybe we should try to incorporate that into everything else.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I'm I'm surprised that if people don't sit there and listen, go, this sounds like a conversation between teachers or educators, because again, because it is because it's exactly what we're doing. We're we're talking, okay, I got this first degree that needs to learn this, this neophyte that needs to learn this, blah, blah. Here's where they're deficient, here's where we need to go back. How in the world do we get how do we get this individual to circle back to this?

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Right. And sometimes you realize you just you can't, or you, you know, you it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

It's not gonna happen. So again, there's no way to understand that until you're in the mix of that, until you're actually in the soup.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Right. It's it's another one of those experience related situations that's more important than anything else.

Real Standards: From Herbalism To Apothecary

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Right. So is there anything else about our degree system a degree system?

SPEAKER_03 28:36

I don't think so. You know I mean I think that pretty well covers it.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

You know, because as far as basics go. Basics go. You know, I know first degree, I know when you're first degree, you're always thinking you're stifled.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

And then you get your second degree and you're like, hey. Like, hey, I got some stretching room. No, what was it? No, what was that that Lady Maya always said about it? Everybody's ready for their first.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Nobody's ready for their second.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

No, no, no. Everybody, everybody's beyond ready for your first. Ready for their second automatically. And then nobody ever wants their third.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Yeah, something like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, something like that. So again, that's normally the that's really the normally the way it goes. You know, once you become second degree and you're starting to see behind the curtain a little bit more, you're like, most people are like, no. That's a must. I'm gonna stay right here in second degree. Stay right here, and I'll be fine. You know. You know, if I knew back then what I was, I'd stay on that floor with them damn Legos.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

I'm ready for some coffee. Let's get some coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media: Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

We travel down this trodden path, a maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyres, and so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning.