Natural Law as Pagan Foundation

In this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, we explore the idea that nature itself is the unshakable foundation of truth. We discuss how natural laws—like gravity and boiling points—remain constant and observable, forming a universal language of truth that requires no translation, with examples like “gravity works everywhere the same” and “the answers that we hunt for in our own lives can be found in nature.” This episode positions paganism as a philosophy rooted in direct experience, cause‑and‑effect, and verifiable feedback rather than abstract or theoretical belief systems.

The conversation also traces how early humans learned consequences and patterns by observing animals, plants, and the environment, shaping both survival and emerging moral frameworks. We argue that modern society has drifted away from this natural alignment, contributing to rising mental health issues, loneliness, and disconnection. The emphasis of this conversation is that returning to nature—whether through homesteading, time outdoors, or simply stepping away from urban noise—creates a reset that restores clarity and emotional balance. 

Ultimately, the episode encourages listeners to reconnect with natural systems, rethink modern living, and rediscover truth through direct interaction with the world around them. By grounding ethics, spirituality, and personal well‑being in observable reality, we present paganism as a practical, nature‑aligned path that helps individuals make wiser decisions, understand consequences, and live more authentically.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Big Question

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. You recently did some research and uh it was dealing with um natural laws and and how they're like an unshakable foundation for truth.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Right. Basically that nature itself is the uh foundation of truth in society or in this realm of logic. Okay. In this world we live in, nature is the truth.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Right. So how does that relate to what we do? Is this is this going back to the uh like last week's episode where we talked about the debates and well th this gets along the lines of this is where we get our truth from.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

This is where these are the fundamental things that do not change. When we're talking about nature, gravity works everywhere the same. So you so you're saying it's no it's an it's an um it's an innate, observable reaction to uh we're able to sit here and observe actions and reactions in real time in life itself. That's truth. If I drop a rock off the top of the Empire State building and another rock off the top of the uh uh top of a very large mountain, they're both going to follow the exact same. Gravity works the right.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

It doesn't care about your opinion, it doesn't care about anything else, it just it follows it follows its own logic.

unknown 2:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Well, like bullying water example, bullying water. Well, bullying water pulls at a certain temperature at ground level. Now science will sit there and go, hey, at higher levels it may boil faster, at lower levels it may boil at lower.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

But that's all about pressure, not some variable that just changes for no reason. It's not like the laws of science just stopped working whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

So pretty much this is uh what makes it as uh like an undeniable authority, if you will, is that it it's consistent. It's consistent. Its principles don't change.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

There's no interpretation of it. There's no, oh, I could see it this way or see it that way. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

The unchangeable principles. Can any of that be corrupted in any way?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

I don't see how. How can you corrupt the water bowls at a certain temperature? How do you corrupt, you know, all of a sudden, you know, gravity not working?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Good point.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Nothing ever falls up

Natural Laws And Unchanging Truth

SPEAKER_00 3:24

per se, all right?

SPEAKER_02 3:25

I guess I was asking it from like a scientific perspective, or like if you're doing if you're doing experiments, there are certain scientific experiments that you can corrupt the data.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

You you have a problem here. Okay, let's explain this, all right? There's a difference between correlation and causation that we have a problem with in human behavior. Okay. Okay. So let me explain this. Basically, uh a guy gets up, uh, you're living in a society, and every morning you get up, and the priests have already been up before the sun, burning incense, doing chants. That causes the sun to rise. This is all you've ever known your whole entire life, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

That this ritual causes the sun. Now, me and you would sit there and go, okay, that's stupid, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah. I mean, that the ritual, doing the ritual or not doing the ritual will not will not affect the sun one way or the other.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

True. Well we're not going to be able to do that. We know this scientifically, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

We know this scientifically. My point here is we would like to sit here and look at our ancestors and go, okay, they were stupid for thinking about this. But really, were they? Because I argue we humans still do this to this day.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

All right. All you got to do is ask any uh athlete whatsoever. Any anyone that's gotten hurt, and I'm I'm sure this is what you'll hear. Yeah, that one time I didn't pray before I went out on the field and I blew my knee out.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Or yeah, you know, that one time I didn't pray, I I got sacked or I got hurt.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah, and like all the little superstitions, you know, like you have a certain pair of socks on game day or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

This is the this is actually the same behavior as the guys in the old days burning the incense, trying to make the sun come up.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Okay, yeah. I mean, that makes

Correlation Vs Causation In Belief

SPEAKER_02 5:22

perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Are you are you with what I'm saying? That that's where in the world that comes from. But where we get real causation and understanding in the first basics of what we would refer to as rational thought would have probably happened along the more along the lines of this way. Back in the day when we were cavemen, right? And I'm talking about no language, no clothes, and we were just grunts. The only time we got meat is if we right. If if the only time we got meat is if the large animal happened to have left it behind, all right. We were scavengers. Right. Well, about this time, this is when these wolves that were less scared of us started to approach us and be closer to our accounts. All right. And if you look at the record, all right, if you look at the geological record, proto-dogs happen, and then it doesn't seem like that long after humans start to develop a whole lot faster. And here's why I think why. As humans, I can have sex with a woman, get her pregnant. It's gonna be it's gonna be three or four months before I realize before she starts even showing. So the connection between sex and pregnancy, probably for humans, were not made for a very long time. Probably not. Until we started to see these proto-dogs, where we would see them mating, then see them swell up and have babies within a matter of weeks of each other. The time bless is compressed. This suddenly gives man a new understanding beyond anything else. Consequences to actions, long-term consequences to actions.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I start to realize if I take all the eggs, I won't have eggs for tomorrow. This is what I think separates mankind from what humans do. Animals are only worried about the now. They don't think about tomorrow. And I think this is the lesson we were learned that we were taught by the gods.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

So basically you're saying that I mean it's it's just verifiable feedback.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Exactly. That's it. That's all that's all paganism is, is we are basing everything on just basic living and standards. And it and I hate to be this way, yes, it does form our morals and everything else. And those higher morals do come out of these things.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

So do you think do you think that we as humans we are basically designed to operate within these natural systems?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yes. I I do. I think I think that's exactly what we this is what we've done our whole entire lives. Ugh, again, I love pucking on Ug, all right. Ugh Ug gets a stomachache, all right? The old lady in the tribe might notice, okay, Ug gets a stomachache and then he eats this herb and he feels better. When he doesn't eat that herb, it don't feel better. She's starting to realize cause and effect. So that way when Ug comes up to her saying, I got this stomach ache, she automatically knows which herb to give him. That is a cause and effect. Now, yes, this also means this primitive type of science here, you get our correlation with causation, which you'll get the funny rituals and stuff like this that really don't make a difference. But over time, we keep on refining this over and over. Because again, this is how it started. And then you got to remember what in a couple of thousand years we suddenly sort of have apothecary, right? And then we suddenly have alchemy and all this other stuff. So again, this is just nothing more than an evolution.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Okay. Yeah. Are you witnessed?

Paganism As Observable Feedback

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah. I mean, to a certain extent, you could think of science as the most purest form of magic theory there is.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah. Um, of course, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I mean, to a certain degree, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Well, and I think I think this also presents um the uh a whole new perspective, maybe not a whole new perspective, but it it creates a different perspective when you look at dysfunction and disease and um and things like that. Lord Man always had a thing that disease is dis-ease. Ease.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

And it is.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

And I think if we look at paganism as a return to this natural alignment or the original design of our of our human selves, that um you you can observe the consequences of not being of not being aligned.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Well, let's think about it this way. All right, there was a change in society where where in the world humans started to think of themselves as above nature and not part of nature.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Then we start getting these places now. Look at society now, all right? Mental health is on the rise, mental problems are on the rise, crime's on the rise, all this other because we're not, I don't believe we're actually living in more natural lifestyle like we're supposed to. We shouldn't be living in big cities like New York. It goes against our nature, right? All right. I I believe humanity needs to spread out. We don't need to be so clustered together. And I I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand cities and towns and stuff like that, but the world we've made is so sick and twisted. All right. It really is. Nobody's ever expected, nobody's ever exposed to the natural world and the wonders of it.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

All right, unless you go, unless you go to the park. How are you really getting away from our current life? I mean, seriously, I mean, let's take like again, New York or these big cities where you have a park in the middle of a big city. In the middle of Central Park, I'm sure there are places you can still hear the traffic and everything else, and it's still the smog, and it's not real fresh air.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Right. Yeah, it's not really getting away from the city or anything. It's just it's a pretty place to visit.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

It's a pretty place to visit. Until you go, until you go out to the mountains and to a cabin where I don't know, your nearest neighbor's a mile away or something, and you can really go out there. I'm sorry, everybody feels that connection as soon as they're out there.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I hear about it all the time on TV and from other places. You got to go out into nature, get reconnected and get away from we tell people all this all the time and not realizing that's our spiritual connection. That's back, that's us communicating with the gods again.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Communicating with nature, getting those feelings, getting that energy back into us.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

I remember we took a trip to um Grandfather Mountain, and um we rented a Airbnb. The owners were they were close by, but they weren't. Right. And but it was it was beautiful, it was secluded. It was, I mean, it was just I mean, we stepped out on the front porch and there it was. We were just surrounded by nature.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

We looked like we were on the middle of a farm. Yeah. We were in the middle of farmland, we were in the middle of pastures. Yeah, it was nice. No, nobody really around us or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

No yell, no screaming, no nothing. No, we couldn't hear traffic, we couldn't even hear farm equipment. I mean, we were it was you know, it was very nice. It was it was again, it was a chance to get away from the city, it was a chance to get away from everyday distractions.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

And I mean, because here's what I would say for those people that think we're nuts on this, try it. How hard is it just to go out to go to a park outside of town? Something a little bit go walk around, go walk around the battlefield, whatever. Get away from everything. Try it, go climb a mountain. You'd be surprised.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Right?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

You'll be surprised at how energized and how much better you feel, even though you might be tired and worn out.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

What I'm suggesting, there are testable things here. All right. There's no because the truth I'm talking about, there's no way to sit there and make it look like something else, or to mistranslate it this way, or to translate it that way. Airworks. You know, fluid mechanics work the way fluid mechanics works because of nature.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Light works because of nature, it doesn't change just because somebody looked at a uh at something, some stripture or something differently than something else.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

This is written in reality itself, and it don't have any one language, it doesn't have one specific place. It's not owned by any specific culture, it's owned by all of us. The answers that we hunt for in our own lives can be found in nature. The truth is there if you just want to read it.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah, well, another one of Lord Men's favorite things is you know, the uh truth is all in a it's held within a blade of grass.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Oh, uh all the all the all the mysteries of the universe can be found in a plate on a single blade of grass.

unknown 14:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. I I agree with them there. Again, answer nature has our answers. All we gotta do is just look to it. It will tell us what we need to know. It has this whole entire time.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

When I question though, all right, so we already know that we can getting back to nature basically resets us, right? Resets us mentally. Right. Um and we already know that we can gain knowledge through nature. Right. Does this knowledge surpass or trump or however you want to say it? Does it does it go beyond theoretical knowledge? Well Is it better than theoretical knowledge?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Well, I mean, theoretics is good, but we're talking about we're we're talking about reality. You know, we have the periodic table, we have all this stuff. We understand the basis of everything.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So it's not that it's better.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

To a certain degree, it's just a d different way of looking at it. We're looking at the world itself.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

All right. You gotta remember, in in pagan philosophy, it sort of works this way, all right? The gods are not the seasons. All right, right. The gods are the forces that make the seasons change. They're the cause. They are the effect. Oh, excuse me, they're not the effect, they're the cause of the effect that we see.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Behind everything. You know, we just haven't come to a point where we can actually understand it fully.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

We're back to this is why I don't believe in the supernatural. I don't believe anything can be greater than nature. I believe everything in this universe has to function by these these laws, physics, quantum physics.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Are you with me? Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I I used to think the same thing. But, you know, going down this path has has

Why Truth Should Not Need Translation

SPEAKER_02 16:48

led me to believe the same thing. There's nothing above nature.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Because I've never seen it at no time whatsoever. So I I don't really understand. The here's the wisdom, and everybody wants to look at everything else. I have a problem when you sit there and you tell me the truth has to be found in some book or something that must be translated by other people or by translating yourself. There shouldn't be truth, does should not need to be translated.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

No, no, it shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

I can easily explain to someone who speaks a different language gravity. All I gotta do is just pick up something, hold up a heavy object, and let it go.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Repeatedly until they go, okay, he's talking about this force that pulls stuff to the ground. What what what translation is there for that?

SPEAKER_02 17:44

No, the there is none. You know, I'm a believer, I'm like you, and I believe that if you're searching for something, right, if you're searching for that truth or you know, any particular truth, or just any truth, it's gonna come to you. It's not something somebody else has to, like you said, translate.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Right. I'm not sitting here saying that sometimes we don't get stuff wrong. All right, but that's when we have to go back and re-evaluate what we believe and what we see.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, this is this is how you know interacting with nature and and gaining that knowledge, it

Pragmatism About Death And Denial

SPEAKER_02 18:26

it kind of creates an awakening within you. I guess you could call it an awakening, but it it it it changes your perception and it changes how you make your decisions.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yes. You're basing it on what in the world's actually gonna happen, what what's most likely, all right?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Now, I'm not gonna sit here and say uh to give you an example, okay? You're in the hospital on your deathbed or whatever, all right. Me sitting here pleading with the gods to suddenly make you better when I know the doctors are going, well, guess what? It I is not gonna change anything.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

What my religion basically says is okay, at this time, I need to start preparing in a different way. Instead of trying to fight the inevitable.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So that means I want to spend time with you, I want to be there. The idea there is that we need this connection with one another. We need to understand what's actually going on here, what we what behaviors we need to do and respond to them. Because again, we have to take care of life first.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I mean, if nothing el if nothing else, if we just look at Manos, what I can't even think of his name.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Um Maslow.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Right. Well, the idea is that it once you take care of certain basic functions, you can worry about higher ideals.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

In and of themselves. This seems to me like a more natural progression of stuff in society. This makes sense. This is how I'm gonna, this is how I would probably have to deal with your death. Are you with me? Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying fantasy ain't good, but at some point we have to suspend that fantasy and realize what reality says.

unknown 20:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yes, it's nice to sit there and think me praying to the gods are going to change the situation when it's not. But we have a lot of beliefs out there who want to push. Oh, no, no, no. We need to stay in this state of denial as long as possible.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Well, I mean, it does help some people deal with things, but only temporarily.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I mean, and but again, this seems like to me it's just the method of putting off the inevitable looking at this problem. Sure it is. All right. So uh there's my point there is

Ethics Through Nature And Community

SPEAKER_00 20:46

that if we look at our ethics and moral, we're a little bit more pragmatic about it. And this is why. Because of where are we getting it from? I don't think we're being cold-hearted or anything like that. At some point, we're just realizing what fate has, and that's it. You only have so long.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

So well, and speaking of ethics and morals, how does you know, how does getting back to this more natural alignment, how does that actually help us with our ethics and morals?

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Well, again, if we if we start looking at how at what helped us, what kind of lifestyle actually helped us survive, we actually did better in the sort of pre-civilization era, to some extent.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

To some extent.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

To some extent. Better. I mean, again, it wasn't as comfortable and it was hard to get along with, people died, it was easy to get sick and all this other stuff. But socially, we did a little bit better.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Good point.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

All right, I'm I'm not saying we didn't have good health or sickness or anything like that, but socially we tend to be we we tend to do a little bit better in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

When we're doing that clan living where we're living on land with multiple generations. And families and working in that kind of lifestyle versus that the nuclear family option.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Right. Being a little more on the solitary side of things. Where you're kind of disconnected from the rest of it, from you know, from everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Right. Where you're you're sitting there, you're growing your own food and you're being self-sufficient, but still being part of the society in greater numbers. I'm just saying we need to get, I think that's when we need to get back to this.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

And not even like the the new iteration of, you know, like the five-minute city.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Where everything's a little more close-knit.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Nope. Not even those.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

No. I'm talking I I really don't think we should get any past any cities bigger than I guess Gastonia.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

I I think I think around that level's fine, but you start getting too much. And even then, I would still want I would still prefer us to live in a Mayberry type cities across the United States versus Gaston County. Right. That would even be better to me.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

So basically get back to the whole small town mentality.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah. And I really do, I think that's better for us psychic. I mean, you know, when we look at today, look at how much, look at how many people have psychological problems now. Right. Compared to what they used to. I mean, depression's more rampant, uh, loneliness and all this other stuff. I don't think what we're doing right now is very healthy in and of itself.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

It doesn't appear to be, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

You know, not with all the stuff that's still going up and more loneliness and incels and all this. Come on, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

This makes no sense. This is the lifestyle that everybody else is in this. So I

Homesteading And A Real Nature Reset

SPEAKER_00 24:01

don't like this. I I think we need to fight against it.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Well, hopefully, hopefully at some point in the future, things will uh start spreading out a little bit more instead of being so compact and compressed.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Well, see, I'm I I am hoping with stuff like, you know, the Starlinks and this and people being able to start. I I think we're starting to enter in a period to where it's easier to be self-sufficient. Well, to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, there's there's you know, there's a lot of DIY channels out there who teach you kind of you know pretty much how to be quote unquote off-grid.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I mean, we realize completely off-grid nowadays, but well again, there's a lot of people out there, and that that's they got blogs, videos, and stuff like that, YouTube and stuff. And that's it, all they do is homesteading. Yeah. So they're not disconnected from the world, they're not they're all the little tropes everybody says about this is not happening. They're putting out videos, they're they're communicating. So I don't understand. There's no disconnect there from the society that most people would complain about there.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Right. It's well, it and I think that's help helping to dispel some of the misconceptions behind you know things like homesteading.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

I I would I would encourage all pagan people to go out and start watching some of these people and see what they got to say about homesteading.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I really would. Yay.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

So there you go. Couple of assignments. Baby. Look up, look up the homesteading people.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Right? And go out and experience nature for real. Please go out. Go out for real. Get away from the cities and go go get yourself in nature.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Uh plan a vacation to go out to where

Coffee Break And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_00 25:59

your cell phone will never work.

unknown 26:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Go somewhere where you can't have a TV with you.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

All right. Just for a couple of days. Try it. You might surprise yourself.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

You might, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Are you ready for some coffee? Yeah, let's I can't live without.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Let's get some coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media. Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our days, to walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days, to walk with me till morning.