The Power of Stories, A Conversation with Northbrook’s Tara LaCerra

" I guess we shouldn't make up someone else's story," stated a kindergartner after hearing the book Milo Imagines the World by Matt de la Pena.

That is the powerful message one kindergarten student walked away understanding from their library time with Tara LaCerra. LaCerra is a beloved librarian at one of our local elementary schools. She sees firsthand how our youths’ mental health has changed over the last decade; the anxiety, the frustration, the struggle to build resilience. And she shares a message of hope noting that stories are still powerful tools for self-identification and acceptance of others. Amy and Dr. Lisa sat down with her to start season three of Parenting the Mental Health Generation, LaCerra talks with our podcast hosts about how stories and conversations create connections with our kids.

Check out our Show Notes for all of the wonderful books she brought with her to share during our conversation.

SHOW NOTES
06:00 Wait Until 8th Instagram
10:43 Perfectly Norman, Tom Percival (preschool-3rd grade)
11:43 Odd Dog Out, Rob Buddulph (preschool - 3rd grade)
12:39 El Deafo, Cece Bell (3rd-7th grades)
13:28 Starfish, Lisa Fipps (5th-6th grades)
22:22 Milo Imagines the World, Matt de la Pena (preschool-3rd grade)
26:46 Don't Feed the Worry Bug: A Children's Book About Worry, Andi Green (preschool-2nd grade)
27:06 Parenting the Mental Health Generation: Help! My kid is falling apart!
27:47 Fish in a Tree, Lynda Mullaly Hunt (5th-9th grades)
30:16 Each Kindness, Jacqueline Woodson (kindergarten-3rd grade)
33:55 Dr. Becky's Good Inside website

©CATCH 2023
Music credit: Tune 2 go / POND 5

To find all of the resources CATCH provides to caregivers of young people struggling with their mental health, go to www.catchiscommunity.org.

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CATCH, Community Action Together for Children's Health, is a 501(c)3 that provides support and education for families around mental health topics. Original content and materials from CATCH and its collaborators are for informational purposes only. They are provided as a general resource and are not specific to any person or circumstance.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Amy O., Executive Director, CATCH: We're back and we've got lots of information and feedback about what our kids and families are struggling with most. We are here to give you some insights, provide you support, and share some laughs along the way. Parenting is hard and you are not alone. Welcome back. I'm Amy.

Dr. Lisa Novak, CATCH Board Member: And I'm Lisa, and we're the hosts of Parenting the Mental Health Generation. Today, we are here with Tara LaCerra, and it's our first in person recording, so, we really are here with her.

Amy: We know Tara will be perfect to kick off our third season. She's a local elementary school librarian and she sees it all from the kindies to the big kids. Tara is also a mom to four school aged daughters and a mental health warrior.

Dr. Lisa: We will cover it all in this episode. The most pressing issues worrying parents these days, trends that Tara sees at school, and what she's learned through her own mental health and parenting journeys. And if that wasn't enough, she's promised to bring us some fabulous book recommendations for you, our listeners, to read with your kids.

Amy: So, put in your earbuds, take these 30 minutes for you and join our conversation with Tara.

[00:01:19] Dr. Lisa: Hello Tara.

Tara: Hello.

Dr. Lisa: Thank you for being here today. We are so excited to have you.

Tara: Thank you.

[00:01:28] Dr. Lisa: We have been busy this summer, getting some feedback from mental health providers, we've talked to school teams, and we've talked to many parents in our community about what they're seeing and hearing the most. But we really wanted to start today by asking you what trends you've been seeing as a school librarian.

What are you noticing on a typical Tuesday afternoon at the library? And how does that differ from 10 years ago?

[00:01:52] Tara: That's such a great question. I think something that I've been seeing more and more, and I think that we're all seeing is the leveling up of anxiety, whether it’s a fear of disappointment or fear of anticipatory events and things like that, that definitely is present. I'm also seeing a lot of kids, especially in our hood, feeling as if they have to sort of keep up. What label are you wearing? Or, I have a child who's going into fourth grade, and it just so happens that she was asked, " You don't have any aviator nation. Why is that?" Or did you look at my shoes? These are the new Jordans, you know, that presents its own difficulties as a parent too. How do you explain why don't we have that?

I would also say, obviously technology is a part of our world, and it is a big part of school. It has become a big part of the library. I do see kids who don't necessarily know how to monitor their time on technology, or even know how to monitor themselves when they're on that technology.

I just actually, at the end of last year, did a super cool lesson. I had a fifth-grade teacher come to me and be like, the kids came in and they were talking about a TikTok that they saw, where there were these worms falling from the sky. And the kids were like, can you believe this? Worms fall from the sky.

And this teacher was like, Oh. My. God.

Dr. Lisa: Oh, stop!

[00:03:12] Tara: And she came to me, and she was like, we've got to do something. What can we do to partner together to kind of teach kids that everything they see isn't to be believed. So, I came up with this lesson and I did it and the discussions that it sparked were amazing.

I've never seen almost sixth graders more engaged in a 45-minute library lesson than I did that day. The personal narratives that they had to share, I saw this and I saw that, or, or even the TikTok challenges, right? That they started to talk about. Like oh, so that might not actually be true, or what I'm seeing might not actually be true.

 The conversations that we had were invaluable. So, while I'm seeing the uptick in an increase in technology use, social media use, I'm also seeing in a positive light kids who want to talk about it, kids who are excited to be able to have a discussion and are willing to go, I was wrong, tell me more, what else is out there that I might think is true, but isn't, and that was a powerful opportunity for all of us. 

[00:04:18] Amy: Do you think that most fifth graders are on Tik Tok?

Tara: Yes.

Amy: Do you think that most fourth graders are on Tik Tok? 

Tara: Yes.

Dr. Lisa: Oh, we could go grade by grade here. How young would you say it actually goes?

Tara: Second.

Dr. Lisa: Second.

Amy: Second grade.

[00:04:36] Tara: I know kids who are in second grade who are on Tik Tok. And, you know, we can remind ourselves that there are age limits to this and, you know, the companies put it out as you have to be 13, but the barrier is just put your age in. And you get in, so there's not necessarily anything that's stopping these kids from getting in other than a parent that says no.

Amy: They’re really little.

[00:05:00] Dr. Lisa: This is our first chance to be in person here and Amy and I are staring at each other like, oh my goodness gracious me, what do we even do with that information?

Tara: Yeah.

Dr. Lisa: You know, you started by saying we all know that anxiety is increasing, and this is something we talk about all the time. I'm curious where that technology usage, that social media usage and kids who maybe use it differently or parents who have different parameters around it plays a role.

Tara: I think that's a great question. You don't want to throw a blanket statement out there that everyone has a phone, and everyone uses this cause that's not true.   I can speak for myself. I actually follow an Instagram account called waituntil8th. And it's an amazing account that focuses on the positives of waiting for a child to be 13, 14, or even more before they get on social media, they also talk about the importance of not having a personal device until it's closer to that age. It is hard. They acknowledge the difficulty in that. So, in speaking to that, I think there are parents out there that are willing to kind of buck the system and not do that.

[00:06:09] Amy: So, one of the things I'm really interested in distinguishing between is the effects that social media and a constant barrage of information has on a child who may not be developmentally ready. And when we met with our expert roundtable, one of the things that they brought up time and again was this sort of inability for kids to concentrate for any long period of time and an increase in their sort of sense of uncomfortableness.

Tara: Waiting is hard. Anything that doesn't have a lot of stimuli is hard for a long period of time. 

[00:06:51] Dr. Lisa: So, what does that do for a librarian?

Tara: Great question. You should know that before I wanted to become a librarian, I wanted to be an actress. So, it bodes well that I can be up on a stage, and I can entertain. It requires you to, to meet them where they are and bring them in. So, it's not always easy, but one of the things I was going to mention too, in terms of the things that haven't changed is that stories are still powerful, and kids still love to be read to. You know, we have story readers that come in and I'll hand them a picture book and their kid's in fourth grade and they're like, no, no, no, they're nine and 10 and I go, I know these kids want to see themselves in stories. These kids want to be read to, and when you pick the right ones. They're powerful. We talk about the need for stimuli. Well, this is its own set of stimuli. And with the right audience and with the right person who's reading it, you can engage a kid with a book as much as you can with a phone or an iPad or, or tech.

[00:07:50] Dr. Lisa: Tara, you say that kids want to be seen in stories, but all kids are different. And so, how do you pick books and stories that you think are going to appeal to many of the students in that class? And do you have any favorites for that that you can share with us?

[00:08:08] Tara: I obviously have a wide range of kids. I've got kindergartners all the way up to the fifth graders. And when we talk about seeing yourself in a book, I have to mention this because this was actually a super cool experience. This year I had two different kids who came up to me and said, I really liked this one book. And I was like, okay, cool. I want you to know here's the premise of the story. And they're like, yeah, I identify as Bi, and so I see myself in that character, do you have something like this? And we had an author visit at the beginning of last year, and she's gay. And I had four or five kids come up and be like, I want books written by her. And so, part of it is going to be being able to bring something in that's going to be different than what we've normally done, just like this author that we had last year, it's also providing a wide range. I realized that not every book is going to appeal to every single kid. So, I'm going to pick one that I do believe everybody will enjoy, but more than that, it's having the discussion afterwards and realizing that it doesn't have to be a book that's perfect just for you, one, two, three. The moment that we start to have those conversations around the stories, I think is really when the connecting comes. So, the reading is the one part, but it's what happens afterward that I think really begins to draw them in. And I've had kids come and go, I've already read that book. I don't want to read that one. You know, mainly like my little kindergarten and first graders. And I was like, I know I've read the book 14 times too, but every time I read it, I see something, I hear something or you teach me something and I think that's the powerful part of the reading is that the more we do it, the more we see the story, the more I connect with the people around me about it,it continues to explode, in the best way possible. So, I don't know that I have a magic way of picking the book. I do read a lot. They joke around, they're like, you've read every book in this library. And I was like, I haven't, but it's my job to make you think I have, because the more I am able to connect with you based on these, the more you're going to trust me and the more you're going to come back.

[00:10:06] Amy: You know, I've had the pleasure of sitting in Tara's library many, many times,

Tara: I miss it.

Amy: I miss it too. You may not have the magic power to pick out the right book every time, but you are a magical reader, an absolutely magical reader, and you create an environment where everybody is safe. And I was always appreciative of that. And I wanted to. Make sure that our audience knew that as well. I think it's kind of obvious, but why don't you share one of the books that you brought with us, Tara? I don't know. Do you want to start fifth grade and down? You want to mix it up?

[00:10:43] Tara: Yeah. So, I was going to kind of talk a little bit about, the kids saying like, Oh, you have that, but you don't have that. Or where's your, this kind of shirt or that kind of shoes. There are a couple of books that I particularly love. One is called Odd Dog Out and Perfectly Norman. These are definitely more of the K-2 level. Perfectly Norman is awesome because it's basically the story about a boy who realizes he was already extraordinary, but there's something really awesome about him. But he's afraid that if he shows it, they won't accept him. And so, he does everything he can to try and hide this beautiful thing. When I've read this to kids, we've had a discussion afterwards, they'll go, he tried to take a bath without taking his coat off. And he went to a party with his coat on. Because the whole idea is he has these beautiful wings, but he doesn't want to show them. And to hear the kids be like, that's ridiculous. Why wouldn't he want to show them? Exactly. Why wouldn't you want to show the most beautiful thing about you, even if no one else has them, or maybe everyone else does, and you've given everyone else a reason to take off their coats, right? It's such a beautiful story. This one's a little bit newer, Odd Dog Out. This is another one where they're like, Oh, you're different. Oh, so sorry you don't belong here. And he's like, yeah, you know what? Peace out. I'm done. And he goes to find a different dog. And the dogs are like, whoa, what are you doing?

No, no, you go back, and you show them. You need to be there. And when he gets back, all the other dogs have also realized that without him, they can't be themselves and all of a sudden, he goes back and every dog looks different because they've realized just how, how important it was to do what he was doing. So, by leaving, he realized he needed to go back and almost show everybody. And in doing so, he taught them all a bit of a lesson. I really, really love for the middle grades, El Deafo. If you guys aren't familiar with Cece Bell, she's the coolest. It is a memoir. She's married to another author named Tom Engelberger. And this is her memoir about how she was born deaf and she went to a school for kids who were deaf. So cool. Everybody else has a cochlear implant. I have a cochlear implant. We all read the teacher’s lips. And then she goes to a regular school and all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, shoot. I look different. I have a different ability. How do I navigate this and still feel like I can accept myself and I can feel accepted by others?

It's a graphic novel and to anyone who doesn't like graphic novels, I will tell you as a librarian, they're harder to read than chapter books because the thing that happens between the panels, you have to infer. So, I love this book and I have kids that they line up for this one. It's an absolute beauty. For my higher level, kind of like six, seventh, fifth grade for sure, too I know we talked about this is Starfish. This is a tearjerker. And when we talk about self-acceptance, I think this is especially helpful because it's her mom that is who she's sort of combating. She is a bigger girl who has had so many self-doubts about her body. And the one person who's supposed to love her the most is the one who's telling her to change. And, through therapy, 

Amy: Hang in there, 

Tara: I know, this is a tough one for me. Through therapy, she finds herself and finds herself being able to stand up to her mom and say, Not today. This is who I am. I love myself. And if you can't love me, I will find a way to deal with it. So, it's a beautiful book, and I definitely think one that will be loved by many, especially our older crowd.

[00:14:21] Dr. Lisa: Tara, as I'm listening to you describe these books, I am finding myself so curious about the conversations that you can have with the children in your room about them. I'm thinking about the younger kids in particular, maybe because I happen to have a few at home, but these first two books, Perfectly Norman and Odd Dog Out.

The reason that kids keep their coats on is because other kids can be mean, and we know that, and we see that, and we experience that, and I've got clients in my office every day telling me that.

Tara: Yeah.

Dr. Lisa: Do you find these youngsters can actually dialogue about that kind of thing? Do you see change happening? Tell us about that.

[00:15:05] Tara: I do. I find that there are kids, when it's modeled, so, when I can show them what can be done and we can have these sort of facilitated conversations around a topic like that, the changes can happen. You know, it's not going to probably happen on a playground when two kids are coming together and there's no one really there to facilitate. I'm seeing kids come into my space, have these conversations and look around and go, oh, like Amy said, I'm in a safe space. I can do this here and I'm supported by the adults in the room, and there's enough kids in that space, especially that young that believe that, yeah, you know what, I can do that too.

And if you've got your coat on, I'm going to help you take it off. I've seen it more often than not. And I do think with all that being said, the more that they can hear that at home and the more that we can model that at home, that's when it really begins to stick. But yes, overall, I 100% believe that these kids are going to see that and they're going to listen to it.

[00:16:09] Amy: So, before Lisa asked you that question, I wanted to ask you, other than the library at Westmoor, how else can your colleagues, teachers, classroom teachers, provide a space time in their classroom and how can we as parents do the same to allow these conversations to allow kids to feel as though whomever they are, they can be. If they can't sit on the rug, they can stand. If they can't keep their pencil quiet, they can use a squishy pen. If they can't not chew gum, they can chew gum, whatever it is. How can we facilitate those safe places in other spaces?

Tara: I think one of the things that teachers need is to have permission. And I don't know that that is always felt. It may be, you know, oh, well, of course you can do that. Or, but sometimes I think, especially for some of the younger teachers, it's, we've got to get through this. We have this much to cover in this amount of time and, oh, you don't want to do that.

Well, you know, sorry, this is what we have to do when we move on. And as we all know, especially the people in this room, if we aren't foundationally happy, comfortable, safe, we can't do the rest of the millions of things we have to do. So, number one, I think, would be granting permission from the people who work at that building who make decisions and that it needs to be intentional. Hey guys, this is our first step. We have a wonderful social worker at Westmoor and I don't know the other ones in the district, but I'm sure there is fabulous as well. And that's another place where I think having that person as a resource, I've learned so much from our social worker, both personally and professionally on how to create spaces where kids can feel that way and how to do that where it doesn't take five hours but adjusting this or that. And again, her giving us permission and saying, this is what this child needs and here's how you can do it.

[00:18:10] Amy: So, as CATCH, you know, we do a lot of things, but one of the things that we take most seriously is this idea that we would like to help parents understand the importance of these kinds of things, of accepting your kid as they are, of understanding that parenting can be done in many different ways and we don't all have to look the same or smell the same or make the same choices. As a mom in the community like we are, how would you, what messaging would you or do you share with your friends or your colleagues about how we can make the community prioritize those kinds of safe spaces and make the community just pull back a little bit?

Tara: Mm hmm. Oh God. 

[00:19:00] Amy: I know, it's a really hard question and it's one we wrestle with all the time, but I really value your input and

Tara: Thank you. You know, one of the things I think who parents look to are their teachers. I think they often look at the teacher when they come in for parent teacher conferences and like, tell me about my kid or tell me, you know, they really rely on that information. And I think starting with the school in the sense that being able to get out a message, whether it's, you know, through an informal meeting, and I know people are busy and they don't want to come, that something comes up or they don't have a sitter or whatever. Even if we make it a part of, let's just even say like the open house, you know, what are some strategies that you might be able to use with your child this year. What are some things you might see in the classroom? How are some ways we can support that? You know, we talk so much about math and science and literacy and here are the things that you're going to get and the folders you're going to get and don't forget that, that pencil. But I think if we made that a part of the beginning of the year and we started off with that and started the conversation then, I do think parents would listen. And I do think parents would, at least it would get that started. You guys are so amazing for even creating this opportunity. I try to, as an individual, both a parent and as a teacher, try and sort of individually have those conversations too. I'm not going into, you know, a coffee date being like, before we start, I'd like to talk to you about. You know, but like, hey, you know, I do feel like people will come to me about certain situations and I obviously have to navigate that very carefully, but it's an opportunity for me to kind of go, don't forget. And this would be helpful. And if you want to try this, don't forget to think about that. I have noticed that parents will kind of reflect and come back and go, oh my gosh, thank you for mentioning that. I never thought about that. Or, oh, now because of that, I changed the way I said something to my child, or I handled a situation with another child differently. So, you know, they're not perfect fixes, but I do think we're in a wonderful community where people value the educators. And I would like to use that as a platform for us to help the community too.

[00:21:04] Dr. Lisa: And in what you're doing right now, do you get opportunities for what happens in the library to translate over? Back to home, do parents find out what books you're reading with kids or what conversations you've started around diversity or being an ally or whatever, these incredibly important conversations are?

Tara: Yeah, that's a really great question. And actually, it brings me to a book that I wanted to mention. So, one of the things that we talk about in the library is the importance of having volunteers. At this point, I am the only school that has parent volunteers for their classes in grades K 2. And what that means is the parents come in if we have some books to shelve, they'll shelve. Otherwise, they'll kind of hang and they'll watch. And it can be a little unnerving. You know, you feel like you're being evaluated. But the reason we do it is for advocacy. Because I want them to see what we're doing. And I want them to see the power of what we're doing. Because God forbid someone should ever go, why do we have a library or a certified librarian? I can go hold on a second power team. What do you see? And that's one way that the parents do hear about what we're doing. I had a parent in, she was a kindergarten parent this year. She was fabulous. And I read this book called Milo Imagines the World.

I don't know if you guys have read this book before. It's a beautiful story about a boy who takes a bus trip with his sister. And along the way, he sees all different characters. You know, he sees like a guy who's got a bunch of bags and he imagines he must go back to his apartment and play solitaire with his cats. And then he sees a little boy all dressed up and he says, he must be a prince and he must be going to the castle and he's going to be, you know, waited on hand and foot. And as the story progresses, you're watching this boy make a lot of assumptions, right? And he's drawing about them along the way. And at the end of the story, you find out that the boy that he thought was going to a castle is actually going to the same place he is. They both have family members who are incarcerated. And it makes you go. Huh? Because again, what he thought and what that kid might've thought were two very different things than what was actually happening.

Now, the beauty of this, when we're talking about diversity and, you know, the kind of topics that are important. I read this to a kindergarten class and the mom who came in was almost in tears. She was like, that was the most beautiful story I've ever read. And yet not a single child went. Wait, they're in jail? Why are they in jail? They didn't focus on the jumpsuits. They went, oh my gosh, he got a chance to visit his mom. Wait a second. And they focused on all the things he thought weren't actually real. They were things that he made up in his head. And one kid goes, I guess we shouldn't make up someone else's story.

Dr. Lisa: Oh.

Tara: And now you wonder why I do what I do.

Tara: And this is a kindergartner, you guys, a kindergartner. I guess I shouldn't make up someone else's story. And it stuck with me. I mean, and the mom, of course, you know, in the midst of like her almost breaking down in tears as we're reading this goes, I can't believe what this book got out of the kids. I mean, that was one example. We had a lot of really good other pieces of the discussion. And it was so memorable. So, when we talk about the importance of diversity and books that maybe kids wouldn't pick up, this was a great example of and what did the kids get out of it? A whole lot.

[00:24:23] Amy: This is such a fantastic conversation and I'm getting goosebumps more than once. I want to bring it back to one topic that came up over and over again at our roundtable that I want to know whether or not you see and or address in these kinds of conversations with kids around stories particularly. And that was of kids who are struggling with frustration tolerance, with an inability to see things through to the end, with a lack of resilience, so to speak, for struggle. Are you seeing that as much as what we heard from our roundtable experts? And do you have conversations around that in your library time? I mean, you do have a little bit of a gift because you have 45 minutes with the class. Is that right? That's such a nice chunk of time. 

[00:25:10] Tara: Well, it gives us the flexibility, right? It's not like I have to shove you out because we have plenty of time to talk. Am I seeing it a hundred percent? And it’s probably kind of important to say that I've always seen some form of either, you know, a low level of persistence. I mean, I think about research back when I was teaching, you know, way back when, and we had a teacher who would come in and go, they can't even answer the question. It's like they read one and then they look for, you know, an answer for about 30 seconds and they go, I can't find it. So, it's not that that never existed. I think that the important part is what they do with that frustration and that's what we're seeing is different. They might still have that inability to move through, but then what do they do with that? I see a lot more physical frustration. I see a lot more outward behaviors. So, you know, I have kids that, and I am very flexible with what I do. You want to sit there? That's fine. You want to stand and do this? That's fine. I don't care how we do it as long as we're getting it done. I think it's important to meet the child in that sense, but the way in which they're coping with it is very different than they have in the past. Having discussions around it. Yes. And usually it's through books, bringing up characters who might be frustrated and then find themselves. How do I cope with that? But I will say that I tend to really kind of try and hone in on those kids and get down to their level and work with them because one of the things, again, I always go back to is there's something else happening right now, so let's address that and then we can get back to the work.

Amy: Yeah, like behavior speaks feelings. Behavior speaks. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:46] Dr. Lisa: I think kids are having more trouble sometimes verbalizing their feelings, and I'm wondering if you have any books specifically around that, around mental health and feelings. And you know, there's a few that I read with my boys, and The Worry Bug is one of them. But just to name it, you know, to, as Leigh Weisz said I think in one of our very first podcasts, throwback to season one, "we name it to tame it."

[00:27:12] Tara: Yes, absolutely. I have a whole list of books I could probably give you, that do talk about naming those feelings. I will say this, our SEL program does talk about that a lot, especially in our younger grade levels. How do we know that feeling? And then how do we name it? And what do we do with it? I don't know that with the naming of the feeling, we're always getting to the bottom of things, but it's the start. And I have noticed that a lot of kids, and actually I have another book, A Fish in a Tree, which is a little bit older. She really focuses on art because she can't really read very well. And so, she is art literate, but not necessarily word literate. And it is very difficult for her to come up with the words that describe how she feels when she is in a room and everyone else is reading and comprehending and she isn't. And for the longest time, because she didn't name that feeling, she was isolated. She was alone. She couldn't make friends. She couldn't walk into a classroom and raise her hand and it was debilitating and she ends up going to a new school and when she's there, she meets other kids who also think in a different way and they talk about how does that feel and what does that look like when we're with our friends and they can do all these things, but we can't. What really, I love about this book is the role the teacher plays. It's not didactic. It's this beautiful relationship that develops that says, I know you don't want to tell me what's going on and that's okay, but when you're ready, I'm going to be here. And that begins the relationship and the trust that builds that finally she goes, I'm ready to tell you. I can't read and I haven't been able to read, and I faked it my whole life and now I want help. And so, it's a beautiful touching story. And the two other friends that she makes in the process become her support group and they sort of come out of the mold and they're like, we can do this. We can do it together. So, in the spirit of naming feelings, what happens when we can name it? And then we find out other people share that same feeling and how much more powerful and supportive that can be.

[00:29:13] Amy: That's why we're here, baby, from CATCH. That's exactly why we're all together. I just think it's important to reiterate, at least it's important for me to reiterate, that when a child is having big behaviors, is acting in a way that is quote unquote inappropriate, that they are indeed trying to say something. They're not trying to be bad. No kid wakes up in the morning and goes to school to be a rotten kid. So, I appreciate that you brought that up.

Dr. Lisa: I wanted to actually circle back to something you said right at the beginning as we're nearing an end here, but one thing quickly, are there any other books that you wanted to specifically mention to our listeners today before we round out? And for all of our listeners, every book that Tara has shared with us today will be in our show notes. So, do not worry, you can find them there.

[00:30:05] Tara: It's awesome. And actually this is kind of a good one to save for last because it's truly an all ages book. If you don't know Jacqueline Woodson, then you have not lived. She is an amazing author. She has written picture books, but also chapter books and has a beautiful story of her own. This story is poignant because

[00:30:22] Dr. Lisa: What's the name of the story?

[00:30:24] Tara: Each Kindness. The reason that I'm mentioning this is and it's a great little roundup at the end because this is a story about a girl who comes to a school and she's different in every way. Mainly they notice that, you know, her clothes are different and, you know, she's in the same shoes and things like that. But the way that she comes in, she attempts to try and be friends with these kids. And these girls are, you know, no, we don't want to be friends with her. We're not going to hang out with her. And she tries so many times, look at what I've brought to school. Look at the things I'm showing you. And they kind of walk away and whisper and, you know, we don't want to be friends with her. We don't want to be friends with her. And the other kids in the class, oh, you're friends with that girl. And the main character in the story is really struggling. You can tell that she knows that this doesn't feel good, but she doesn't know what to do with it. One day the teacher announces that the little girl is not coming back, and she makes this really amazing metaphor to throwing a rock into a pool of water and how that's like kindness by simply that small rock going into that little pool. The ripples are the kindness that goes out into our world. And so, she thinks to herself, okay, well, when I see this girl again, I'm going to get my chance to be kind and she doesn't ever come back. And what she walks away with, which is what I love, is this isn't wrapped in a perfect bow. She actually feels really bad about it. And so, what is she going to do? Talk about an opportunity for discussion. How many times have we done something where we've gone, shoot, okay, I'm going to make it better. And we can't. How do we take that lesson and what do we do with it? And it's a beautiful opportunity to talk about empathy and kindness with everything and everyone. I've had some of the most amazing conversations with fourth and fifth graders with this book because of how much it can resonate. Oh yes, that happened to me when I was in so and so's grade. Oh yeah, I had a friend, and I never got a chance to say I'm sorry. This is it. Each Kindness by Jacqueline Woodson. It's amazing.

[00:32:21] Dr. Lisa: Tara, I'm still thinking about one of the earlier comments you made. I believe this was about one of your own daughters, who was asked about the brand name clothes that she wasn't wearing at school. And I'm curious if you can help us end this podcast by sharing a little bit about what you've learned from the kids in your classroom and being an educator and being a mom to four around how do you respond when your daughter comes home and she's feeling deflated and angry and scared and sad that the kids are teasing her for what she is or isn't wearing.

Tara: The first thing I do is acknowledge. I don't want to push away those feelings. You are frustrated. You are angry. You are sad. You feel defeated. You are disappointed. And all of those things are real. It happened. Now, let's talk about what those clothes mean. Are the clothes that you're wearing something that define who you are? Let's talk about some of the things you're really good at. Oh yeah. You love soccer. Oh yeah. And you're really good at playing the piano. Oh yeah. And can't forget that you were on the baseball team this year and you crushed that home run. Do those things define you? No. Are they part of who you are? Yeah. Are you proud of those things? Yes. The clothes you wear, do they make you kick that soccer ball into the goal? Did it make you crush that home run? So, let's think about what our worth is really about. And I do try and take a lot of stuff from, it's not a plug, but Dr. Becky, Good Inside. If you guys know who that is. And I really try and focus on a lot of the things that she gives me. And I use that. But I also try and lead by example. My worth is certainly not my clothing. I don't make a big deal about what I wear. If it makes me feel good, I wear it. If it doesn't, I don't. I'm not naive to the fact that this won't be the last time that we encounter this. But my job is to foster humans who value humans. And I'm going to do everything I can to do that in any way I can.

[00:34:18] Amy: So far so good mama. 

Tara: Well thanks. It's a tough journey.

Amy: Tara, thanks so much.

Tara: Such an honor to be on here thank you.

Amy: I'm a little bit overcome in all honesty.

[00:34:30] Dr. Lisa: Thank you for being here, Tara, and for sharing your wisdom, both at school and at home, and thank you to our listeners for joining us for another season of Parenting the Mental Health Generation.

Amy: So, before we sign off, you heard us mention a couple of times a roundtable. CATCH met this summer with local social workers, teachers, pediatricians, mental health professionals, and had a conversation about what mental health topics rise to the top for them right now in our community. The trends that they're seeing, a lot of it was similar to what we discussed with Tara here today, and it will be directing our programming for the year. We hope to host two Lunch and Learns this fall, September, and November. Look for episodes of Parenting the Mental Health Generation every month from now until the holiday break.

[00:35:23] Dr. Lisa: And stay current on All CATCH programming by liking us on Facebook @catchiscommunity or by visiting our website catchicommunity.org.