Big things. Little things.

What if we shifted to a “needs-based” economy? Part 1 - with Elisa Rathje, Appleturnover

• Sophie • Season 2 • Episode 7

Share episode

Today I am in conversation with Elisa Rathje of Appleturnover to discuss "what if we shifted to a needs-based economy. I was keen to discuss the economy as it is a recurrent theme when researching root-causes of the climate crisis. Today we have a relaxed conversation covering the following topics: 

  • a childhood book inspiring Elisa right now;
  • the challenges inherent in climate activism; 
  • the pros and cons of a “climate action roadmap”; 
  • the importance of non-violent communication in climate activism; 
  • what the term “climate crisis” actually encompasses - defining the problem; 
  • the economy as a “root cause” of the climate crisis with reference to Manda Scott and Miki Kashtan's conversation on the Accidental Gods Podcast (link below); 
  • Kate Raworth’s “Doughnut Economic Model”; 
  • How to navigate fear and panic about the climate crises; 
  • “Active Hope” online course by Joanna Macy & Chris Johnstone; 
  • The role and impact of scarcity in economics; 
  • How the economic system we have in place is an agreed upon story that can be re-written; 
  • We synthesise how, in practice, we can challenge the scarcity mindset on individual and collective levels; 
  • How universal basic services could be beneficial going forward; 
  • The importance of making decisions that factor in the question “does this decision or action regenerate life?”; 
  • Some classic band-aid solutions to the climate crisis to watch out for; 
  • We sum up our “take-away” learnings from our discussion. 


Elisa Rathje lives, writes and films the small work at Appleturnover, a small farm on a small island. Tollow her new series on regenerative living, the journal of small work* at https://www.patreon.com/appleturnover in film form and in accompanying small works both written and audio. You can also find Elisa’s writing on Instagram @appleturnover and at appleturnover.tv

Show links: