The Drunken Worm Podcast
Welcome to the Drunken Worm Podcast, each week I will bring you dynamic content that will educate and inspire. This podcast was created to talk with mental health professionals about addiction, recovery, and their own personal stories that can inspire us to become better people and live healthier lives.
The Drunken Worm Podcast
EP:039 Steppingstones to Serenity: The Costa Rican Route
Get set to traverse the enchanting landscapes of Costa Rica, as we sail through a captivating conversation with Justin, our first international guest. Justin, a veteran who found solace and a unique recovery path in this tropical paradise, takes us on a journey marked by resilience, discovery, and personal growth. From navigating through the contrasting cultures on the Pacific and Atlantic coasts, to uncovering the potential of community care in a foreign land, Justin's experiences paint a vivid picture of his life in Costa Rica.
As a North Star in the recovery landscape, the veteran's treatment center run by a former Vietnam Green Beret holds a special place in Justin's story. He shares the striking dichotomy between the US VA services and the holistic community care network in Costa Rica. Beyond therapies and treatments, Justin's story is enriched by unforgettable friendships, heartening encounters, and the power of acceptance.
Ever fancied a peek into the routine of a 90-day training program in the serene backdrop of Costa Rica? Justin offers a detailed narrative, emphasizing the vital role of healthy living as an integral facet of the recovery process. Our interaction takes a breezy turn as Justin tackles rapid-fire questions, divulging his perceptions about work, leisure, and strength. We wrap up our chat gleaming with plans to extend support to fellow veterans through the Reach program, and a delightful tale of Justin's latest addition - a baby sloth! Tune in for an episode brimming with inspiration, personal insights, and the irresistible charm of Costa Rica.
https://costaricarecovery.net/
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Hey guys, are you looking for a backstage pass? How about a behind the scenes look at this podcast? Well, I have exciting news for you. Starting October 1st, we will be opening the doors to the Drunken Worm Podcast and letting our listeners join in the fun and conversation. Check out the different ways that you can support this show and gain access to exclusive content, such as free Drunken Worm Podcast merchandise for one full year. Join an exclusive community where you can talk to other members, vote on upcoming show topics, hear exclusive audio footage from interviews. Each month, receive a personal shout out on an upcoming episode and stay up to date with the Drunken Worm Podcast monthly newsletter so that you can stay informed about upcoming guests, show topics and community news. With four different pledge options to fit any budget, you can flex your power and become a super fan today. Alright, guys, and welcome to the Drunken Worm Podcast.
Speaker 1:My name is Carl, the host and creator of this show, and you are going to be listening to episode 39, and I have a really wonderful guest lined up for us today. He is my first international guest and his name is Justin, and we're going to bring Justin into the show here in just a minute, but I wanted to take care of a little bit of housekeeping. So if you're listening on a subscribing service or maybe like Apple Podcast or something like that, please go ahead and hit that subscribe button. What that does is it's going to allow you to get notifications whenever I put out a new episode, which has now changed. We're going to be doing monthly episodes. I know in the intro and all the stuff that I've done before, season two, which we're now in season two, has been doing weekly episodes, but we are now going to be doing monthly episodes and if you guys would like a little brief description on what the season is going to look like, you can check out episode 38, the one previous before this, and I explain everything and why I'm changing the format and everything. So check that episode out if you would like to get a little more background on why we're kind of changing things up a little bit here.
Speaker 1:On the Drunken Worm Podcast Also, give us a rating. This is going to allow other people access to the show. So if they type in like recovery podcast, it helps put our show up towards the top so that other people can find it. And if you're finding this information useful, if you're finding the content that we're bringing to you inspiring. You know, let us know how we're doing. It's always a great way to share your thoughts, talk to other people and just kind of get to know the show a little bit more, and it also allows me to get to know you as a listener. So I appreciate you listening today. You can always visit our website at thedrunkenwormpodcastcom. We also have a Facebook page and we also have our Instagram page, so all the links are listed in the show notes If you would like to join any of us on social media. I do post there semi-frequently.
Speaker 1:Right now, with work and everything, it's kind of been a little bit more hectic for me and I've started school full time. So you know I'm just trying to keep the show going and, like I said, we have a wonderful guest lined up for us today and his name is Justin. So, without any further ado, let's get on with this week's episode. Welcome to the Drunken Worm Podcast. Each week, I will be bringing you dynamic content that will educate and inspire. This podcast was created to talk to mental health professionals about addiction recovery and their own personal stories that can help inspire us to become better people and live healthier lives.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Drunken Worm Podcast, episode number 39. And on today's show I have my new friend, justin. He is joining us from Costa Rica Well, actually he's over on the Caribbean side, but we're going to dive into that here in a few minutes. I'm actually really jealous man, because I'm talking to him before the show and duties with palm trees and he turns his camera around and it's just this beautiful, beautiful ocean scene. So I want to welcome Justin to the show man. Welcome, brother.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Carl. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, absolutely, absolutely Dude. I'm so jealous right now because you and I were talking and for some reason I know that you have a stateside phone. So when I was texting you I was like, well, maybe he's like stateside or something, but it is definitely apparent that you're not stateside, that you got your flip flops on and you're enjoying the beach for sure. So welcome to the show man.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, snorkeling about five minutes before I picked up the phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I have nothing to polite to say about that. So cool man. So tell us, where exactly are you this morning?
Speaker 2:I'm on the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica, as far south as you can go. The national park right next to me is half Panama, half Costa Rica.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, cool man. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, dude, I love it down there. Man, it's just so beautiful down there. I did a cruise, a 12-day cruise, and we did Costa Rica and then we went down into the Panama Canal and we did the first lock of the canal and, dude, it's so amazing and it's so different down there and I love the culture and everything.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, it is a completely different culture and even between coast it's two different cultures here.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely man. Yeah, yeah really, because you have the Atlantic side or what I would consider the west coast side, and then you have the Pacific side, which what I would guess I would consider maybe like the east coast side, if in terms of kind of the way the US is kind of divided, with land in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, except a giant mountain range down the middle.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, yeah, we.
Speaker 2:It's just two oceans and a mountain range.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's great man. So, dude, it sounds like life is pretty good for you right now, but I know that it always hasn't been that way, and you kind of happenstance to get down to coast or EECA by a little bit of an airline flight that you were planning on taking to California. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'll start off back at the VA, at Gundo VA treatment. I've been sober for about a month but I knew it wasn't going well and I figured I'd give it a try. But I'd been through the VA three times or this would have been my third time and I just saw more of the same that there was no. There was one counselor for all of the veterans that were in treatment, just one that you may or may not get to meet with, depending on how desperate your needs were. There was zero psychologists and there was no veterans I mean aside from the patients as far as the staff, I mean Just knowing that I know that seemed to be able to relate and I decided to take off and I would rather than be a drug that's driving Denver and not so many people, marijuana, and that immediately sent me off to the races and I ended up in a hospital Christian rock metal band and putted pretty hard with them, which isn't something I knew they did and then God Real messed up and decided that I was gonna go get sober at a friend's house I knew a safe in San Jose, california, but I wasn't sober when I made the decision and I woke up in San Jose, costa Rica.
Speaker 1:Wow, and and now you've been down there for how long now?
Speaker 2:Two and a half years. Okay over there. I got here.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay. So you, you literally like you didn't have any choice but to stay down there.
Speaker 2:Not really. I mean, I didn't really want to leave when COVID hit. I mean, I was on the other side part partying with there is a big music festival and some girls that were there for photo shoot, some drug dealers, and we're all living in a hostel over there and I decided to go over to the Caribbean side. You can still escape to the beach. This is a beach I'm on now. We didn't enjoy it at all because all of us were having the addiction and none of us left the house or did anything interesting in the least. And that went on for a long time and completely fell apart. And then I was calling around for treatments, I mean, but I had no resources and Got lucky and I found one that had a X Vietnam green beret that was running it and I told him my situation. I was wondering if the a would help out in any way and he's like I know that, but he was like I'm a veteran, he sounds like you need help. He's like just come in. He's like that's, we don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's, that's great man, that is, that's just great. And now you've become friends with that, with that guy. I see the same person that you're staying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's the guy I'm doing the benefits for okay, cool, man Cool. He actually followed me down here.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's great, dude. You've got a little following because we we also have another mutual friend by the name of JR, who is the author of the addiction manifesto and also one of the founders and Semi co-host of the recovery revolution live, a show that I used to co-host on that platform, and so you know a lot of really interesting stuff going on. Man, dude, I'm so excited to have you on the show this morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, I'm really glad to be on here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I haven't spoken much about what's going on down here, aside from maybe JR who was like I'm down right. I'll show you what's happened. I mean, it's very odd what we're able to do for veterans here. There's no path like it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell us, how is, how is the recovery path different there Versus maybe, a vet that's trying to get services up in the US?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go fairly hardcore here my experience of recovery and receiving services being national guard. Even though I've been deployed, I wasn't eligible for benefits, but when the post 9-11 bill went through, veteran National Guard members that had been deployed for a certain number of days were now eligible for benefits, and that was shortly after 2008 when that went through that. I had been need of them for a long time prior to that, but I finally sought help. Like this is shortly after the divorce and I was Suicidal, drinking a lot I don't think my alcohols and been for force, but I was using it to cope with other mental health problems and and my experience at the VA was Telling them what I was going through, because I finally was able to even go to a VA and tell them, like, what was going on, how it's feeling.
Speaker 2:They locked me in a room for 72 hours, not always remembering to bring me food For people that are suicidal and I spent most of the time being really upset that I had nothing there to kill myself. That's what my experience to be. I mean, I had no one to talk to, I was just Locked up and even more in my own head, one than I was before. I sought help. Now, at the end of it, I talked to a doctor for about 15 minutes and he said there was groups I could go to a couple times a week. I mean, I knew I needed a much higher level of care. Treatment seemed not to be an option. Rehabilitation seemed not to be an option, in his mind at least yeah and their mind didn't seem to be given right.
Speaker 2:And then I I don't know what acute in their mind was, but but anyhow, and I mean that was the beginning of my path many years down the road, they eventually got me into. I mean, they just shut me out in the street with no resources. Well, we figured out, essentially. But make it back to these meetings even though you don't live in this town sure.
Speaker 2:But I mean, eventually I got through treatment and it was more of the same and trying to get treatment outside of VA. They have something called community care network, which is something that I'm using here. The foreign medical program is part of the community care network, but in order to do that you have to. They use the Mission Act to see how close you are to a VA and how urgent your need is and they take all these things into consideration. But then it goes in front of what is essentially an accounting board to see If they're willing to pay for your treatment, and from people that I've tried to refer, the answer is 99% of the time, no sure and and and for many, many things.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love the VA, but I mean my experience within mental health has been terrible. I mean positive for the VA. I want to go see a dentist Fargo, which I think has the best VA in the country for me. I got into the dentist next day to give me a root canal. I mean everything got done, wow. But what's mental health? Mental health I've struggled, specifically addiction treatment.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And, but our path is different. I mean for the foreign medical program. All you need to be a service connected. You can seek treatment for anything. Your service connected. Okay in the VA page, in the VA pays for it. There's no referral process. Let's say your service connected. You can fly here tomorrow and say I need treatment.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You can. You can start treatment tomorrow. I mean, this doesn't exist in the US. There's, I mean, aside from your passport, there really isn't an obstacle. Wow you can just immediately get in street.
Speaker 1:That's. That's. That's fantastic man. So how long has the program been operating now?
Speaker 2:Well, our treatment center are the foreign medical program.
Speaker 1:Well, let's, let's start with the treatment center and then we'll go over the foreign medical program.
Speaker 2:Sure, the treatment center was started by the Vietnam veteran I was telling you about, I believe 16 years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:He mostly operate Operated in the Minnesota model. He he was One of the higher-ups for Hazelden for many years, okay, and he actually came down here to train Costa Ricans in the Minnesota model.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay and but I mean but the expansion, I mean just what he saw and Nature, and I mean all the stuff he was kind of trying to do at Hazelden and through the VA, but getting a lot of backlash. I'm like just for insurance companies and the VA wanting to pay for mindfulness and Medication and sound therapies and all these other modalities to go along with the 12 steps but being just as integral, including exercise, which is which is the entire time has been done. Regardless of like what your state is, your physical state is, you get up at 5 30 to go to the gym. If you have to go to the gym and sit there in a wheelchair and not do anything for a few days, you'll eventually join in whichever way you can yeah that's.
Speaker 2:That's to start your day. I mean the physicality of this program Through the mindfulness is just a work. It detoxes you so much more rapidly, but not only that like you can see the change in yourself. I mean not just feel, feel your mind coming back together, I mean you physically it's. It's kind of the change you see when you go through basic training. I mean, after like six weeks you're like I'm kind of ripped.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, and I mean so Physically, you look good in your. I mean that helps your mental health and health as well. I mean, but with the mindfulness and meditation and sound therapy and the yoga, I mean, your body and mind are healthy, mm-hmm. Um, at that point, I mean you have, aside from just, I suppose, mild vanity, I mean you have many reasons to feel good and a lot of great tools to bring with you, because it's a 90 day program and it really helps you get in that mode. It's a training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and, um, dude, I love the fact that, uh, that this gentleman has started. You know, coming from Hazelton and, uh, you know, that's for those of you who are not familiar with what Hazelton is, it's a very large publishing company. Um, they, they do so many um different uh, I don't want to call it literature, but they have a lot of books and everything that we can utilize inside of the classroom and a lot of trainings and, you know, and all these different things that we can do with different modalities of service that we give to people, and so it's kind of one of like the standards that is in the treatment industry, especially within the U S. Uh, so very familiar with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He specifically worked at Hazelton uh for Betty Ford.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:As a research, as a researcher, and then then, then that's great.
Speaker 1:That's. That's really awesome, Okay, Cool. So so it sounds like we have a 90 day program and, um, what is it? What does a typical day look like for somebody who's going through treatment there?
Speaker 2:Um, I'll give a typical Monday. Okay, um, monday, get again. You get up between five and five 20 most people get out of bed right before the gym Um, just time enough to fill up their water bottle and draw and close. And the gym's a short five, five, four or five minute walk. Great, as the sun's coming up, it's great time to be out. I mean all the birds are out. I mean, even though we're in the city, we're in the valley around Mullins and it's still filled with nature. I mean all the birds are singing and it's and it feel good just going there and uh, then then it's an hour at the gym and then you come back. You've got some time.
Speaker 2:Most people use it for meditating directly after the gym or practicing their own breathing techniques, and then you're meditating and teaching others and hit the showers or whatever they want to do is.
Speaker 2:You've got about a half an hour, 40 minutes in there and then it's a breakfast, and then you've got about half an hour to yourself or half an hour to an hour to get organized for the day. Yeah, um, and then it's uh, then then it usually is. Well then, on Mondays that would be sound therapy at E. You've got a full stomach and, um, just kind of lay there in a sound bath or an hour. I mean you're motionless. I mean it's a lot of indigenous instruments with most the, the, the, the, maybe in the, and actually next patient are the ones that are making the music, and the shaman, the shaman musician, and she's using just nature sounds that generally with bowls and gongs, and I mean it's not the harsh sounds and it's just soothing. And for veterans and like, uh, I don't know, like maybe overly masculine people, even putting myself like hard work is this was like really hard to accept.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Additionally, and I mean it was important. I mean that level of like just trying and accepting things was just doing that was really important. I mean, after you're in it and you manage to keep your mouth closed for like five minutes, you're just loving it and just completely relaxed and it's a great way to, like just before classes, just kind of get your mind right to to really start going inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely that's. That sounds pretty amazing, and so JR talked a lot about the meals down there. He said the meals were amazing. Um, and so do you? You have a chef or a kitchen crew that comes in?
Speaker 2:and cooks for the guys. Yeah, we've, we've, we've got a couple chefs.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks. We've got a local Tika chef. Tika is what they call Costa Rican women, and Anika Nicaraguas to the north, and there's a lot of people from Nicaragua, a lot of migrants, down here. Well, similar to the southern states, which are next to them. And same ingredients, very different cooking styles, both amazing chefs, costa Ricans. They're both fairly healthy and then Nika's definitely like the fried chicken a lot more A lot of fresh fruits. That's both beans and rice. I mean a lot of fish, but both amazing chefs.
Speaker 2:I mean they've got some workers along with them that are good chefs in their own right, but they're kind of the two heads and they're the heads on the individual days. They work and there's a huge spread. I mean it's a good meal.
Speaker 1:That's great, man. You're making me hungry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's healthy, rather than what you're familiar with treatment, I mean. I mean there's people that come down really skinny, but for the most part, people get less fat here. I mean both the diet and the exercise. The diet is quite important for us too. I mean, it's good, delicious, healthy food.
Speaker 1:And that's important because, you know, when we come in to recovery, a lot of us and myself included, you know we didn't know how to eat properly, which was really dude. It was really strange for me because I'm a trained chef and so, like, I know portion sizes, I know, like, hey, we got to have. You know, this is the way a plate should be balanced and stuff like that. But my idea of a well rounded meal was a microwaved chicken, or not even a chicken sandwich, a microwaved cheese sandwich and a bowl of ice cream at the end. And, dude, I mean, it just sounds delicious to me right now, but I know how unhealthy that was for me and it put me into a category of being pre diabetic, you know. And so, luckily, my I've been now doing, you know, watching what I eat, exercising again, and you know, doing all these things. So I'm no longer at least I don't think I'm pre diabetic. My doctor said that I wasn't anymore.
Speaker 2:So and your diets. I mean I mean we kind of follow, like the indigenous or cultural, with how much your diet affects your psychology. I mean, especially when you're detoxing, I mean there, there is a different. You don't, you're not forced to follow it, but there definitely is a detox diet. I mean they don't entirely eliminate me, but they highly recommend it. Yeah and dairy, they kind of remove all inflammatory from your diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I mean even as you, even if, when you're done with detox, I mean you could still treat yourself, there's still least one or two like very unhealthy options there, and I never moved away from ice cream. I ate that every night the whole time I was in treatment and I eat it every night to this day. Nice, nice, I mean, I don't go crazy, but that's something that is not removed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that disease. That's almost like my, my Achilles heel man. I'm like ice cream and then I'm like oh. I got to put peanut butter with it, and then what goes with that chocolate sauce right and I'm like man yeah you know it's all bad, no, but you know I've been doing so.
Speaker 1:I've I got into doing a ketogenic diet so I've taken out pretty much almost all my carbs well, total carbs or net carbs, I guess you would say and then sugars and stuff I use. You know some of these other not not even natural sugars, like fruits and everything I try to stay away from because of the sugars and the fruits. But but it's been really good for me and it's been. It's worked really well with getting my, my weight under control and allowing me to, you know, not have some of the ailments that I've had before because of not some of the ailments and I did the keto when I was down here to get.
Speaker 2:the cooks are really flexible with that.
Speaker 2:I mean everyone, like when you're, when you're trying to get mentally healthy. I mean everyone's trying seems to be trying to get physical. They're just all that. Your mindset just switches to whole and the and the cooks here at a dapp was you on that? I mean, yeah, I did the keto diet for probably the first month and a half that I was here and I definitely felt a lot higher level of energy might seem to be processing. I mean you're detoxing to right, so that's a benefit of that, exactly, exactly, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:But I love nutrition, like you know, just learning about how our body processes food, how it stores fat, you know, and finding out different ways that you know, with our diet we can actually improve our mental health as well, which is super important, you know, and a lot of people don't realize that our mental health is tied into so many different aspects of the way that we just approach life itself and how we live life itself. So, you know, really really important to be aware of what we're putting into our bodies, because that's a byproduct of what we're going to produce and what other people see and how we act and how we feel and stuff. So very important is nutrition for those of you out there. Yeah, man, it's dude, I'm just so jealous, you know. Actually, seeing all the palm trees and hearing the ocean and stuff, man, it's making me want to go scuba diving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some guys out of boat right over here and this is the cheaper part of the country. It's not a high cost thing, I mean, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty famous over on this coast too. It's equal here in the Pacific.
Speaker 1:So is there a large? So is one side, like you would recommend going to the beach on one side versus the other, or are they both like equally good to like go to the beach or get in the water?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean Absolutely, I want, I want to. I mean, my personal preference is a the Caribbean. That's where it first came.
Speaker 1:I like.
Speaker 2:I like the mentality. It's a little less touristic, considerably less. But the Pacific has its own beauty. I mean it's, it's become Kind of a wellness mecca of the world. Wow, costa Rica's, costa Rica's, and what people refer to as a blue zone.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:I Mean and there is some science behind. I mean here like Okinawa, I mean people just have much longer life spans.
Speaker 2:Yeah much healthier lifestyles. I mean Compared, compared to the area of the lifespan here is almost 10 years longer. The lifespan here is considerably longer than the United States. Wow and considers. And yet again, for non veterans, where about About $7,500 a month? Which kind of plays into like the regular role of Costa Rica. Like, if you look at like dollars spent, dollar spent in healthcare, per longevity, costa Rica has the least amount, least amount of dollars spent per person per year and the highest in the, the highest longevity in all of the Americans. Which Concludes North America, the United States, canada. It's higher than all of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah and the United States is near the bottom.
Speaker 1:Wow, and you know, and I totally agree with that man, and and I I know I should agree with that because it's it's factual, you know, yeah, but you know, you look at the diet in America and the way that we approach fast food, the way that we approach processed foods, and you know, like man, it's just so strange, like we get these guys that will come into a treatment center and like none of them know how to cook and I'm like, how do you not know how to cook?
Speaker 1:You know, and yeah they're like how do you boil pasta? And I'm like, okay, let me show you. You know, obviously you haven't had to do that before, but you know, if you go down to Other countries and stuff, you know, it seems like there is there's people that know how to take basic food ingredients and put them together to make a nutritious meal.
Speaker 2:So it's not even. Not even that. I mean, it's just a different lifestyle. I mean the us, I mean I think the longevity has more to do with a lifestyle which will, which will include cooking, and I'll get into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah like here. Like here, if you're hungry, um, they'll throw you a mango. I mean, if you're in the United States, you not only feel that you have to prepare something or you have to go to the store and you have to buy something. It's, I mean, it's away from like the consumer. It's not only the consumeristic culture, it's the the go, go, go, go, go go, but only mentally, without actually moving your body. I kind of Kind of moving past for the sake of moving fast, yeah, so the person behind you doesn't get you. I mean, that mentality here just doesn't exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's dude. That's so refreshing to to to see. I lived in Hawaii for a little while and kind of a similar, you know, mindset there too. You know we always made reference to island time Versus like the regular time, because island time usually was about 15 to 20 minutes later than you know what, what was normally happening around you know, if you were like from the mainland or something, so um, but definitely, definitely a very laid-back kind of a carousel-free, um attitude towards life and Like if it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and if it, if it's not meant to be, then you know that's okay too and that's kind of how I approach for life.
Speaker 2:Now you know like yeah, they're national slogan and it's especially said a lot here is who to be the, which means your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They also use it kind of like as well, as they also use the most common use, for it ends up being I mean, aside from like Things are great of, the second most common use is, uh, they use it as a shit happens. Yeah right, which is kind of kind of confusing right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's so, true man. You're like, well, fuck man, shit happens right. And you're like, yeah, right, there you go. I love it, man, I love it so tell me what is what's on. What is what's on Um? Where do you see this program going? Because I know that you guys have the one center and you're planning on opening up another um Property. I'm tied to the rehab. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I'll Put it as it pertains to the pro, the program in general, because I will specify, the veterans program is something different. Um, the veterans program. As far as rehabilitation goals, our intent is not to have a veterans program. There's zero separation between veterans and not veterans, because the goal is reintegration. So I mean, aside from what you talked to with your personal psychologist, everyone is Equal, not different. There's no veterans program, aside from what I'll get into later and that has more to do with Benefits and opportunities, because we're able to, because of things that exist within the VA, we're better able to help veterans, more able to help veterans than we are other people. But as the programming goes, there's no difference. I mean, here we're in a high intensity, inpatient program, Um, you work on, you'll be more involved in the 12 steps in the, the big book, but they'll they'll still be equal parts classroom, um and uh, mindfulness meditation, different breathing motalities, um, as there is the, the classroom.
Speaker 2:But as you go on, you get a little in this program. You get a little more freedom. Freedom, you can go into the movies with a friend, you can. You can go out on the town with a friend. You can go to the nature. You can go hiking and then, as you get a little higher level, you can Take off with some friends and go to the beach. It's more of a level of freedoms and, um, once the idea is kind of once we move into Nisara it's going to be A wellness program, but also kind of once hearing clear mind. You're kind of trying to figure out what you want to do with your life now, because that might have changed and I'll move into the veterans program. Now they're going to be doing more yoga serve. They're kind of teaching them all how to just enjoy life together. But along with that we're going to do it with all but Veterans.
Speaker 2:There's a better avenue for us to be doing the paperwork to get people into school and showing them the opportunities for housing, buying houses, all the benefits that exist for Veterans. But we'll include those two possibly working with us and training other Veterans as DSOs and our yoga instructors or surf instructors. And we're going to continue to use our network of graduates to help people get jobs and opportunities and kind of figure out who they are and have the opportunity to go with that if they're going, rather than going into possibly a lifestyle that they didn't want in the first place.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of the second extension of it. And the second extension is in the mountains of Norths area and what I was referring to is one of these blue zones, the natural magical healing zones. Not to get too hippie on you, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I'm going to bring up our favorite phrase now. We were talking about rural. Wait, did I say that? Right? Rural, rural, rural, rural, recovery. Brett, if you're listening out there, I give you permission to use that in your next podcast. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:So, this idea that we're bringing recovery to people that might not necessarily be able to have the idea that they could go to a quality program and that they could have the opportunity to afford it, and you're doing that with the vets now, and you're able to bring this whole aspect of mindfulness and this synergy to the body, and I think it's so fantastic.
Speaker 1:And then to top it off with everything because we could do that at any recovery center here in America right, we could do that. But to top it off, man, now we're in a tropical paradise setting, and it reminds me, like when I first got sober on December, the 1st of 2018, or, excuse me, not December the 1st, january, 1st of 2018, I spent a week down in Monterey, california, and I made a point that the first New Year's Day of my new life that I'm creating for myself, I was going to spend on the beach and watch the sunrise, and it was such an impactful moment for me because it was so beautiful, it was so calming hearing the ocean and just watching nature happen in front of me, and being able to be present for that and being able to appreciate that For me was such an impactful thing, and it's still something that sticks in my mind after almost five years of now being in recovery, and so it's really great to think about having that type of peacefulness around you in order to become peaceful within yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's kind of similar to talking about like the food that you put into your and the drugs and alcohol that you can enjoy. I really do feel a lot of for me anyway, being a rural person that if I heard a car coming down the road it meant that there's something in my house.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like I'd maybe hear one a day, yeah, but being constantly in the city and like you had to give them the rush of US life, you just kind of feels like they're just constantly being mentally poisoned.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And to pull away from that. I mean I'm out here, I'd rain out, entirely taking it for granted. You just don't have that, just constant beratement of noise. That really isn't about you. I mean, it's yet again treatments trying to get away from the outside influences, outside desires, outside wants and kind of bring you, be able to bring you into yourself, and it's, in my opinion, what easier to do in a environment like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Bring yourself in placing that's.
Speaker 1:oh man, that's so awesome. I love it. Dude, this is such a fun episode to be doing with you, brother, and, like I said, you know you're my first guest on season two now and I've taken a little hiatus, and so all of I get texts and messages from a lot of people saying, hey, when's the podcast coming back up, and everything. So I'm like super excited to have this be like my, my premier episode for season two and everything. So it's it's it's really good to get to know you and so the listeners know we are. We have some stuff in the works.
Speaker 1:Man, justin and I were talking about possibly having me come down there and you know it would be really great to. I was even thinking it would be fun to do maybe like a live show down there. You know, and we could. We could do a little live broadcast and talk recovery. Maybe we could even get the recovery revolution guys in on it and we could do a dual broadcast one from the States, where they're going to be stuck, and then one in paradise, where you and I will be Sounds good.
Speaker 2:I mean, you'll still have JR from the recovery revolution.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, he's going to be down there, man, so I'm looking. Yeah, dude, that is so fricking crazy. And one of the other crazy things is that now I just totally lost my train of thought. Dang it. So yeah, so JR is going to be moving down there. That's absolutely amazing, because I know that he went down there and he's actually my, my coffee smuggler. Oh wait, should I say that on the air?
Speaker 2:Oh, that was you, that was you.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:No, well, because I told him. I said I got coworkers. I got one of them who's used to work for Pete's coffee and used to roast beans and stuff, and I was like bro, I got my guy down, I got a guy in Costa Rica and he's going to be bringing coffee back to for us and my friends, like dude, let me get like two or three bags. I'm like all right, man, I'll tell him. So yeah, man, but I had Costa Rican coffee before when I went on the cruise ship and we stopped. I don't know which port we were in, but as we're getting back on the ship, there was a Were you on the Atlantic or the Pacific.
Speaker 1:We're on the Pacific side, or wait, no, we're on the Atlantic side because we sailed from from Miami.
Speaker 2:Okay, You're in Limón, just north of me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because then we then we hit Costa Rica and then we came down through the Panama Canal in the upper portion.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um, and this lady was selling coffee bags there and I got two of them and due to it's like some of the best coffee I've ever had in my life, oh yeah, it's coffee.
Speaker 2:coffee plantations everywhere, I mean the ones up in the mountains, I think, are for me. I like them real dark, flavorful, full-on's. Not necessarily the highest caffeine, but the way I make them. They are yeah right.
Speaker 1:That's great man. Well, I'm Justin. I'm really happy that we we have a chance to to create a little connection here, and I'm really looking forward to getting to know you a little bit more and making a trip down there. We'll we'll definitely be in touch about that, so yeah, so tell us, if people are looking to Come down there for treatment Veterans or or anybody are really what is that process for them? How can they get in touch with you guys to get services?
Speaker 2:well, I can well Say the best way is just go to Costa recovery, costa recovery net, and there'll be a chat option and that way you can kind of see the recovery center. Yeah see what you're see what you're getting into. They have pricing in there for non veterans which, compared to us prices, is, I would say is incredibly cheap is $7,500 a month.
Speaker 2:Okay for non veterans. Veterans, if your service connected, you have a well, completely cost free half of and and not only that. Another thing I should mention for veterans that Maybe you and I know what having been in the day is just, I mean, while you're in treatment. So it's not only cost free for veterans, but if your service connected, the VA pays you at a hundred percent during the poorest time that you're in treatment. Wow, so, you're your official.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and and so okay, so somebody comes into the program and Then they stay for the 90 days and then where do they usually go after the program?
Speaker 2:Um, for veterans so far, I Would say more than 50%, just state. Okay just decided. Just decided to stay in Costa Rica. Like I said, it's a relatively new program. We haven't had a lot of veterans, but More than half yeah, okay, the the rest are returning, returning back to the United States. So far it's been California and Texas. Some of some of them decided that they would continue traveling.
Speaker 1:Wow, well, that's, that's really good man, and you guys are given such a service to. You know, the recovery community, people that have served our country, the veterans out there like yourself and like myself, and and J R Is also a vet so a lot of really great work that you're doing there. Okay so, justin, I got a little rapid fire questions for you. You feel like taking on some rapid fire questions, man.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, guys. It's time for the rapid fire questions. All right, justin, you're gonna have two questions and you have to. What? Two options? So you got to pick one, okay, bud. All right all right, work or play. Play play all right, morning or evening. Morning salty or sweet salty. Um, let's see shower at night or in the morning. Morning would you rather fly or have superhuman strength?
Speaker 2:Superhuman strength, all right, physical strength or mental strength, mental all right. Are you a night?
Speaker 1:out or a night. In type of person, night or day out.
Speaker 2:Okay, do you kill bugs you find inside or take them outside?
Speaker 1:and that might be a loaded question for Costa Rica. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2:I Just leave. I mean, I live in the cribbing. I just leave the windows open. They come and go.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, cool man, all right. Do you prefer driving or flying?
Speaker 2:Now it's a necessity flying.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, here's a good one. Do you prefer fresh fruit, fresh food or fried food? Don't let the ladies at the rehab know your answer.
Speaker 2:Oh, if I can't choose on that, I have the best fresh fruit and the best fried food here. Wow, I'm going fresh fruit, fresh fruit.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, okay, cool man, all right, would you rather? Can dive into a pool or dip your toe in first, all right, Would you rather sleep in or take a nap midday?
Speaker 2:Hmm, sleeping because it's a more of a fantasy.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Okay, what is your guilty pleasure?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm kind of that asshole that doesn't have them.
Speaker 1:All right, all right um. Let's see what is your latest impulse buy.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't be mine. My girlfriend just bought a baby sloth and felt really guilty that she bought it for herself, that because she was 27, but I paid for it, so I guess it's a buy. Okay, I was like oh, you get that for a kid, no nice, nice, all right.
Speaker 1:So a baby sloth, huh? Oh, you definitely definitely are down in the Caribbean man. Um, I love sloths, man, they're. They're so cute and adorable, all right. So a question. I ask all of my guests on the drunken worm podcast who is your favorite disney character?
Speaker 2:The robin williams won the laden.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, dude, the genie from Aladdin robin williams most definitely, man. That's a good one, man. I've never heard that one before, so kind of said Gilbert's one. Yeah, yeah, that's another good one too. That's another good one. Well, brother, I've had so much fun on the show today with you. I want to thank you for coming out today and taking the time this morning. Do you have any plans for the rest of the day, man, oh?
Speaker 2:Help a veteran out and spend as much time at reach as possible.
Speaker 1:That sounds like a good plan. Man, that sounds like an excellent plan. All right. So again, we've had Justin from Costa Rica recovery on the show today and he's out there helping vets over in Costa Rica, and I am looking forward to planning my trip out there, which will probably be around the start of next year. I'm going to be taking some time off of my regular job here and I'm going to go down and enjoy some sunshine down there and also Learn about the program and talk to some vets and hopefully maybe even get in there and do a little work with them while I'm down there.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'd love to see that, yeah that would be amazing man.
Speaker 1:All right, justin. Thank you very much for being on the show today, brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me.
