EP:028 Finding The Way Out with Charlie LeVoir

Talking with Charlie LeVoir about his struggles with drinking and drugging. Charlie opens up about his experiences and building a recovery podcast.  TheWayOutPodcast
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Transcript

Carl Fessenden: 1:19

Hey guys, are you looking for a backstage pass? How about behind the scenes look at this podcast, I have exciting news for you. Starting October 1, we will be opening the doors to the drunk and warm podcast, and loving our listeners join in the funny conversation. Check out the different ways that you can support the show and gain access to exclusive content, such as free drunk and warm podcast merchandise for one full year. Join an exclusive community where you can talk to other members vote on upcoming show topics. Here exclusive audio footage from interviews each month, receive a personal shout out on an upcoming episode. And stay up to date with the drunk and warm podcast monthly newsletter so that you can stay informed about upcoming guests, show topics and community. With four different pledge options to fit any budget. You can flex your power and become a superfan today. Alright everybody, and welcome to today's show. My name is Carl, the host and the creator of the drunken worm podcast. And what a show we have lined up for you have a really good friend on and I was able to be a guest on his podcast, and his name is Charlie. And we're going to jump into which podcast he is the creator and the host of. And we're gonna take care of a little bit of housekeeping right now. So I want to remind everybody, if you guys are using the Apple app, please take the time to scroll down. If you go to the main show description, you can scroll all the way down to the bottom. And there you're gonna find a set of stars. And be sure to give us a rating, let us know how we're doing. If you want to leave a comment, it would be greatly appreciated. And what that allows other people to do is it allows them to find shows like mine shows like Charlie's, and it will put us higher up in the queue. So if they look for a recovery podcast, or a mental health podcast, or they have questions about becoming sober, they can type those into the little search box. And it's going to put our shows further up on the top so that people can find the content that we're putting out there. And it's very helpful content, a lot of people find our content helpful because we they we get to tell stories, we get to hear other people's success stories, we get to hear about their struggles and all the things that go along with being in recovery. And we get to celebrate and recover out loud with those people. So it's really amazing when we have the new connections, and I want to take a moment to thank everybody for taking the time today and listening to the show. I really appreciate everybody's support. Great news a couple of weeks ago, we just hit 3000 downloads. And that's a huge milestone for me. You know, when we first started the podcast, I wasn't sure if anybody was even going to listen to the podcast. And now we've just hit 3000 downloads. So that's incredible. And if you are a person that is interested in supporting the show, please go to the GoFundMe, we are going to be starting our video podcasting here soon. And I have a little fundraiser going to help pay for the cost of buying the video equipment and everything. So if you would like to support that, it doesn't take very much to to support the show, you know, 10 Or maybe 20 bucks if you can, or even less it, you know, every little bit helps. But we're trying to bring you the best content possible. And I want to try to bring you that video content. Now that is going to be more interactive, and is going to up our game for the drunk and warm podcast. Welcome to the drunken worm podcast. Each week, I will be bringing you dynamic content that will educate and inspire. This podcast was created to talk to mental health professionals about addiction recovery and their own personal stories that can help inspire us to become better people and live healthier lives. And again, welcome to the Show, episode number 28. Today, and what a show we have going on. my really good friend Charlie is here. And Charlie actually was the first podcast that I was interviewed on when I got into the podcasting gig. And now we're bringing Charlie back onto the show. And so we want to make sure that we give Charlie a warm welcome to the drunken warm podcast. And if you guys are struggling with addiction or you struggling with mental health issues, I hope that the content that we're putting out for you is going to be informative, helpful and inspiring. So that you can give up drinking you can give up drugging, and you do not have to live like that anymore. We want you to stay well stay sober and to have the ability to live your best life Alright, Charlie, buddy, welcome to the show, brother.

Charlie: 5:51

super glad to be here, Carl. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited.

Carl Fessenden: 5:54

Absolutely, man. I just picked out some new intro music at the beginning of the year and I actually I really liked the upbeat tempo to it. So thanks Yemen. Yeah, man, it's in and it's royalty free. I found it on a on soundstripe. So you know good good stuff going out there. And and that's that's a really good resource for people that are looking for royalty free music So, yeah, man. So how are things going for you today?

Charlie: 6:21

Tremendous, absolutely. Tremendous. It's a great day here in the Greater Twin Cities metropolitan area. We just got seven inches of fresh snow here. So winter's not quite over yet. It's not done with us yet. We're not winter woods. Yet, Carl here in the great state of Minnesota. It's like a winter wonderland. It's, it's

Carl Fessenden: 6:49

wonderful. That's awesome, man. Well, I'll tell you what, you can ship some of your snow over here because we desperately need it were you last summer we were in a drought. And this year started out really good for us. We had a lot of rain come in. And it was hitting us hard up in the CRS, we had 16 feet of snow in three days. And but since then, we haven't had a really good storm come through. And looks like we might be getting a little bit of rain this this weekend while we're doing the recording and stuff. So. So but if you want to ship any over, I'm sure we would not mind. We've got plenty. That's right, brother. So you are a person and long term recovery. And you are also the host of a podcast called the way out. So I want to talk to you about all of that tonight or today, man. So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you kind of got into recovery? And and maybe some of the struggles you had early on in recovery?

Charlie: 7:49

Yes, sir. Again, Carl, thank you so much for having me on the show. Super happy to be on and just sharing a little bit about my journey and what that journey has culminated to up to this moment. Okay, my name is Charlie Lahore. I'm a person in long term recovery from addiction and alcoholism. And what that means to me is I haven't found it necessary to use drugs, alcohol, or mood altering substances since December 6 2014. And if you're anything like me, that's kind of a big deal. It's a one day at a time thing for me. And it was not easy. For me, it was a rocky road to recovery, anything but linear. But the recovery I've been able to achieve, has been nothing short of amazing. Like I always believe. And when we when I think about Hindsight is 2020, right? But today, I always believe that I always had big addict and alcoholic switches and they were bound to get tripped. Yeah, one way or the other, those things were gonna get tripped. And the circumstances that precipitated my addiction and alcoholism. You know, were unique to me, but I think pretty relatable, but that always used to say, Carl, Charlie, you had the you had the quickest hand to the cookie jar, always from day one. So, you know, my addict and alcoholic Jean was pretty active pretty early on. And so if I was the quickest hand of the cookie jar at age six, or seven, and that hand to mouth, from an alcohol standpoint, started pretty quick, too. But yeah, my mom died when I was 11 years old of cancer. And that was a really defining moment for me, in my life. Our worlds changed. Our mom was everything to us. She was our social engineer. She was our domestic engineer. She was our educational engineer. She was everything. She managed our lives. And when she died, it left a giant hole. In all of our lives. I have two brothers one that's younger than me by 18 months and one that's about four and a half years older than me. Like we didn't know what how to cope with that. I didn't have any tools at 11 years old to cope with something of that magnitude. My dad didn't know how to cope with it. I remember nights, going to sleep with two pillows over my head, because I was trying to drown out the noise of my dad crying himself to sleep. Wow. And that happened for weeks, you know, so it was just a really trying time. And that's right in that adolescent range. And so I really feel like that was fuel to the fire. I always had big additive alcoholic switches. And if it felt good, I wanted more by it. Add to that A traumatic experience and suffering, the loss of my mother definitely falls into that category. I had some big feelings I didn't know what to do with. When you combine these overwhelming feelings that I didn't know what to do with, combined with adolescence, combined with big additive alcoholics, which is Game On brother. And so the first time I drank was a very memorable experience for me, Carl, it made me feel in a way that I had never felt before it, it instantly got rid of my anxiety, instantly got rid of my depression, and unlocked things in me that I had been unable to unlock up until that moment, might could stick up to the guys, I could flirt with the girls. I could be the person I always wanted to be, but wasn't able to be that before that, because I was crippled with these overpowering emotions that I didn't know what to do with it. So at age 14, I found that magical elixir at a friend's party, his parents were out of town he lived on the lake had a fully stocked bar. And I couldn't get enough man it was it was the best feeling that I've ever felt in my entire life. And I just wanted more and I couldn't help myself, I couldn't stop drinking. at that party. They tried to stop me they tried to take it away from me, they tried to cut me off, it didn't work, I became unmanageable at that party. So they stuck me in a dog kennel outside to contain me. And they checked on me a few hours later, and realized my lips were blue and I wasn't breathing. This was the first time I'd ever gotten drunk. And my friend was able to revive me by pounding on my chest and I and they proceeded to feed me an entire bottle of syrup of ipecac. Because they didn't want to call the cops because it was news. We were all underage. And I vomited for hours, man, it was it was terrible. It was horrible. But I didn't focus on that negative syrup of ipecac I that I wanted to do Carlos feel that way again. And that was the beginning for me. I just wanted to feel that way. As often as I possibly could.

Carl Fessenden: 13:58

Yeah. And that that really. And wow, what a tremendous opening for the show. Thank you for sharing all of that. And I'm sorry about your loss. So early on, and leading into that, that path of addiction for you. But, you know, it just really goes to show that when they say that an addict will go for the feeling and dam the rest of the consequences that come from wanting to feel that feeling again, chasing that dragon, that first time feeling again, and the release that we feel when all of that happens. That is a perfect example of that description inside of the addiction world.

Charlie: 14:46

No doubt about it. It was complete and total freedom from the bondage. Have those terrible emotions that I didn't know what to do with up until that moment? Yes, it was hard being me, man. And it was hard to be in my own skin for a lot of reasons that I didn't understand. But at that time, all I knew is that it felt really uncomfortable being in my own skin 99% of the time. And the minute I was able to put alcohol in my system, all that was gone. And I felt free. And I felt alive. And who wouldn't want to feel like that all the time,

Carl Fessenden: 15:40

man. Sign me up. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it just it's so incredible to hear other people that you know, that I feel I can relate to and and I'm sure other people out there that are listening to this today can find similarities to where they can relate to. And that's the danger of the addiction portion, right is that we're we look for the relations that go along with our addiction. And so now we have to break free from those ties of the relations, and we have to get into the solution. So Charlie, tell me a little little bit about what your experiences were like, kind of going into your addiction. And then where did that take you to the point where you said I finally have enough. And you know, I need to break free from this. Wait.

Charlie: 16:32

Great question, Carl. Great question. So this was the solution for me, right? I found this thing, this is the answer. This is how I'm going to be able to deal with life now is alcohol and definitely in high school a lot of marijuana, because it was easier to get it was highly available and compatible with the lifestyle at that time. And so I did a lot of that. And that also made me feel good. It was that alcohol was always my first love, no question. So a lot harder to get before turning 21. So marijuana definitely filled that void. Look, I got high as much as I possibly could, I got drunk as much as I possibly could, because it made me feel better. And it got me out of me. And anything that got me out of me I was in. I was all in it. So I was a binge eater through high school, chronic marijuana smoker and a binge drinker. And I have these episodes, these really out of control episodes with alcohol and marijuana. I mean, it was my maintenance thing it kept mine kept the IQ at bay. And I did that every day and it kept the ticket pay. And every time I drank it was completely unmanageable. And I would be out of control and I didn't know how to control and I didn't want to control it in the beginning. I went to treatment when I was 15 because of that first drunken incident where I got locked in the dog kennel and had alcohol poisoning my parents made me go to treatment and I just found this stuff like like what you want me to you want me to what now quit for the rest of my life. And I literally just found the magical elixir. That's hilarious. And so I lied in the intake, so I didn't have to go to inpatient. And I quickly learned what they wanted to hear. And I waxed poetically about steps in recovery that I had no interest in working. And I was about to coin out I was pointing out isn't the process of coining out and everyone everyone in my treatment. Pie do, Charlie, you're going to stay sober forever, Charlie, if I had the wisdom you had your great Charlie, you're like a recovery ninja. Wow. And then I lean the head treatment counselor who I didn't even think was listening. Carl usurps the circle grabs the coin says Charlie, you're lying to this group you're lying to yourself you're probably going to use again and it's probably gonna kill you. Wow. And then she walked out of the room

Carl Fessenden: 19:40

little reality check there man. Yeah,

Charlie: 19:43

Eileen saw right through the BS for sure. And as my use accelerated as my disease progressed and as I'm wrestling with this growing demon inside of me this thing that I'm not really willing to reckon with because I know it's quickly got more control of me that I do have it. But I'm not willing to admit that yet. I reckon with that especially not in high school. But every time a severe incident would happen or a consequence would happen. I lean would come back into my consciousness and I would think of the you're lying to yourself, you're lying to this group you're going to use again and it's probably gonna kill you. She was that voice of reason for me. Yeah. And out of high school. I got a girl pregnant and had my first child and sort of tried to stay straight a little bit and cut the boosts he met me when I was on a second status stint of sobriety after a DWI. So you know, in the highest out of high school and into my early 20s I'm drinking heavy and it's been a lot of binge drinking karo and, and just every time I drink hard liquor, I can't it's like How to Control it's like it's out of control, I have no ability to control it. So I got a DWI. And a nudge from the judge. This is my second DWI, or DUI. And so I got an ad from the judge that said you had to go to 12 step meetings, okay, I'll go to 12 step meetings fine, and get my car outside. And half of me was in these 12 step meetings, like, wanting what these people had, but not willing to admit that to my son. And half of these like these poor bastards. They need this clearly, they need this. And I'm glad they have it. But I don't need it. This was a phase. I'm going to manage this thing better now. And I wasn't really committed, I didn't work any steps I wasn't. You know, they call it the wall. You know, having doing the wall steps. If you work wall steps, you're gonna have off the wall program. So I stayed sober for like a year, I was 21. I stayed sober for a year on Wall steps and fellowship, ended up getting the mother of my two children pregnant, and felt like I needed to like step up as a father. So I tried to check the alcohol at the door. At that point, she thought she met me when I was sober. But it was like addiction, whack a mole, man, like, okay, so I wouldn't drink and then food became a problem or sex became a problem, or porn became a problem. And so there it was like this, this monster was still inside of me. Regardless of whether I was actively indulging it or not, money became a thing. I mean, like anything that felt good. Yeah, I couldn't manage it with any sort of appropriate balance. Yes. The marriage didn't work out, get divorced. And I'm off to the races again, man, like no accountability. And even during the marriage, like I would binge, she just wouldn't know it. And the divorce was hard. And another big change and a lot of overwhelming feelings and off to the races. And from that point on over to war marriages, I ran into two truths that I increasingly couldn't deny. The first truth was over any length of time, my drinking and addictions would become unmanageable. I couldn't manage them. They would result in some sort of external or internal consequences, consequence that would become unmanageable a DWI, a loss of a relationship, some sort of internal breakdown. And the second truth that I kept running into was I couldn't stay sober by myself, for any length of time, I just couldn't. So I kept running into these two different screws. And you know, if I would, I would say hard liquor is the problem that only drink beer, that became unmanageable, wow, alcohol is a problem. So only smoke weed, but that became unmanageable. Well, I can't do drugs or alcohol, well, then, you know, food or porn or something else becomes unmanageable. So so it was just this addiction, whack a mole, but I still just wasn't ready to reckon with the fact that I that I'm an addict and alcoholic. I'm on my third marriage. And we're living together. We've got this giant house. We both got great careers. We got kids, hers. Mine didn't have ours together. But we had hers and mine kids in this giant house with great careers. And I can't stop drinking, man. I'm drinking every day. And I've got everything like I've got I've got a good looking wife. I've got this great job and she's got a great job and, you know, externally, everything's just gangbusters and I'm dying inside. And I'm falling apart inside. And it's a it's a game. It's a shell game. Yeah, it's a Jekyll and Hyde thing. And she taps me in the hallway one time afterward. It was a weekend. Thanks. Like, Charlie, you drink every day. Wow. Oh, baby. I do. You're right. But it's not a problem. I only have a few. No. The problem Carl with lying to somebody that's a rd smarter than you and Be not drunk because it doesn't work out very well. So she starts counting and I'm like trying to rotate beers in the fridge and do this thing and she quickly realizes is way more than a few. Yeah. She's like you got you're getting drunk every night. Is are you sure? It seems odd to me? Yeah. It's look, I can quit anytime I want. Huh? She's like, cool, quit for 30 days. I'm like, Okay, I should have seen that cup. And you know, I should? Sure to see now. So I quit for 30 days on Marlboros and resentments, which I do not recommend, right. But I convinced her after that 30 days. See, I told you, I'm not an alcoholic. Now, her dad was an alcoholic, and locked out on her on her birthday when she was a young gal. And so I'm not gonna get too much of her story. That's her story. But, but suffice it to say that she had not she did not have designs of marrying an alcoholic on purpose. And I wasn't really ready. I wasn't. I hadn't reckoned with my own alcoholism yet. But I certainly didn't tell her that I had been to treatment. I certainly didn't tell her that I had had DW eyes already have that. I didn't tell her any of that. And I didn't tell her that on purpose. Because I knew her history. Hmm. And I wanted to be different. I wanted not to be an addict. I wanted not to be an alcoholic. I really did and desperately wanted to have alcohol in my life. And but I desperately also wanted not to be an alcoholic. I quit for 30 days and Marlboros and resentments and convinced her that it was cool to buy some booze for Thanksgiving and my son's birthday, which every few years falls on the same day. And said, Okay, I said, Don't worry, I'll get it. I'll get it all go to the liquor store. I got enough booze to get an army drunk. And there's like three of us drinking four. And I never like to put myself in this box, that I'm only gonna drink X amount because I knew myself well enough. Although I wasn't ready to reckon with the fact that I was an alcoholic. I knew myself well enough to know that I shouldn't put myself in that box. I'm only gonna have x amount, but like, everything was riding on this car, all of it. My marriage, like all of it was writing and I just didn't want to get divorced again, man, like, Yeah, really? Okay, this was the third my third wife, okay, I just didn't want to get divorced again. Okay. And I get drunk. Of course, I can't stop myself. I'm cutting the turkey and almost cut my hand off because I'm drunk. I'm drinking half glasses of wine that aren't mine. My parents leave after this show that I put on this. She's What's wrong with you? And she wasn't trying to be mean to really want to know. Like, what's wrong with you? My dad looks at her no, my dad. My son looks at her and says, What are you talking about? He's just drunk again. And the facade that I had, thought I had, was completely gone that veil of Jekyll and Hyde like I was fooling people, it was gone. My son who was 11 at the time, totally saw right through it all. He knew that I wasn't drunk. She's like, you got to go to treatment. You just got to go. Okay, I'll go to treatment not because I want to get sober. Not because I'm having any designs on reckoning with my own alcoholism, or addiction. I honestly just didn't want to get divorced again and go through that all over again. I've done it twice. It's awful. Yes, it's awful. I didn't want to lose everything again. I just didn't want that again. And I didn't want to fail. Again sorry, go to treat, I go to the treatment counselor's office and I got motivated. I'm going halfway across town man, like they didn't have any availability. So I'm literally driving an hour across town to this facility in and I get into the treatment counselor's office for the admission, and I just, she's like, why are you here? And I wasn't planning on it. But I just broke down, man, I cried like a baby. And I and for the first time in my entire life, and I cannot to this day tell you exactly why. That was the moment that I decided that it was time to get completely honest with her and myself about the true on adulterated nature of my addiction and alcoholism. But I did besides to say that I was just sick and tired of living the way that I was living and I was sick of running. Yeah, I was sick of running from it. And I was sick of trying to manage it. I was just, I was done. I was just done. And so I just got honest with her about everything. And she said, Okay, sounds like you're in the right place. What do you want to get out of this thing, Charlie? Well, I want to know why I am the way I am. I just wonder why. She kind of laughs and she says, Okay. Let's say it's because your mom died when you were 11. And that trauma was the impetus? Let's say it was you've always had big addict and alcoholic switches and they were bound to get tripped. Let's say it's a combination of the two. Do you think if you figure out exactly why you are an addict and an alcoholic, that you'll ever be able to drink safely again? No, no, I don't. Do you think you'll be able to use safely again? No, I don't. And I truly reckon with that at that moment. That Nope. There's no way I am, in fact, on able to manage this anymore. I've tried everything. I've tried everything I've tried at all. And my own devices were not sufficient. So I'm willing to try something else to say cool. So we figure out how you get better. Instead of worrying about why you are the way you are. And that was that first light bulb moment that it didn't matter how I turned into a pickle. The reality is, I turned into a pickle. And now it's too hard to figure out how to get well. And like a good addict and alcoholic, Carl, I dove into recovery. Like I dove into addiction and alcoholism. Yeah, 100%. And I just wanted to get better. And I just wanted to get to a place where I felt okay. Again, cuz I hadn't felt like that in probably 25 years. sober, like, I never felt okay, sober. And so that was the goal was just to get well enough to be okay.

Carl Fessenden: 34:55

Wow. Well, that's, that's an incredible and tremendous story to hear you talk about and as you were talking about this, it really reminded me of that saying that we are as sick as our secrets. And for you to hold on to those secrets through that third marriage. And to put on that persona of hey, I'm okay. We're okay. You're okay. There's nothing out of the normal going on here. But to have an 11 year old child see through the masks and the whole production of that evening, to call you and say hey, no, he's drunk. And to have that lead you into that addiction treatment center, and for you to now sit down and think about the idea of becoming truthful with yourself, not only the lady across from the table, but with yourself now. And that's so tremendous to hear, Charlie, and I'm so proud of you to be able to do that. And that moment, because I am now able to sit with you. And I know the great things that you have done in your life. And I see the tremendous effort that you've put into your recovery Working the steps and doing all of that. So you had gone to a program before, and you'd gone to a 12 step program before. And you put on the, the show for them. Like, hey, I'm one of you guys, everything is good. But what was it like for you now to go back into your 12 STEP program, with some humility, and acceptance and willingness now, to actually take a look and try to work a real program or if recovery

Charlie: 36:52

was the most wonderful experience, perhaps of my life, up until this moment in that car, for the first time. I started truly listening to other people's stories, and other people's experience, strength and hope. And it blew my mind. Because I related to them for the first time in my life on a level that I've never related to any human being in my entire life. In such an intimate and raw way. They felt like I felt, they felt like I thought they did what I did. They drank like I drank, they used like I used and they got better. And they had this unmistakable glow of peace and serenity about them that I wanted, they had something that I finally really wanted. And I was willing to do what they did, in order to get it. Which for me meant working the steps in order to the best of my given ability with a sponsor. And I did that. And I listened to a lot of Joe and Charlie, in the beginning, because they say, it took Bill and Bob to write the book and Joe and Charlie to explain it. And I couldn't agree with that sentiment any stronger. And they just kept saying, as they're walking me through this magical text, just run the experiment, Charlie. Don't worry about the process. Don't worry about if that makes sense. Just do it to the best of your given ability and judge the result. And if you're not happy with the results at the end of this thing, will happily refund your misery. That made sense to me. I had nothing to lose, right. I could always go back to that horrible moment in my life. Like, I just never want to feel like that ever again, Carl, ever the way that I felt when my son said that and the way that I felt when it all came crashing down in that treatment counselor's office. I never wanted to feel that way again. And I was willing to do whatever it took not to. And I had this sinking feeling that if I didn't take this chance at recovery seriously, that I'd be feeling that way, a whole lot more. And I don't know that I could have taken that. So I dove in, and I worked these steps. I wipe the slate clean on a higher power. I hated God. I hate tid. That guy took my mom away. Yeah, okay. I made a very fateful decision at 11 years old that I didn't need God and I didn't need other people. I wiped that clean. And I started praying to a God that I didn't understand. And it's very simple prayers. In the morning, I get on my knees and ask for help. That's it. That is it. That night, I would thank this unnamed mysterious force for another day sober, but I meant it. But I meant it. And my life started getting better and the realization claim that this God that I have no real concept of isn't changing, my boss isn't changing my girlfriend isn't changing my kids. This higher power is changing me. Yeah, and how I relate to my boss, my girlfriend and my kids. And that karo was a big epiphany that I had as I worked through these steps, then my higher power has the ability to change me in a way that I was not able to do before. I tried to be good before I tried to make changes before I tried to wasn't for lack of effort, man. I really tried. But I was not able to stay sustain any meaningful change prior to working a program of recovery. And this program in recovery allows me to sustain these changes. Because I have tools today, now that allow me to do that. Equally as important, Carl, was therapy. So I did the steps, the 12 steps, and I did EMDR therapy in parallel. And I'm convinced that that was the secret formula for me. Yeah, that's I need to both I needed to work through the trauma, right, and to work through that stuff. Yeah. And so I'm very grateful, I'll always be grateful to my third ex wife, because she had the grace, even though she hated my guts, and had a lot of good reason to do. So. She had the grace, to allow me to be on her insurance so that I could complete my training.

Carl Fessenden: 43:29

What a gift. It was.

Charlie: 43:33

It? Yeah, a true gift. Yeah. So I'll always have a ton of gratitude that didn't end the way I want. It didn't end the way I wanted it to. I don't regret it today, I have an amazing girlfriend that I would not have met, if it wasn't for that. But I have a lot of gratitude toward her for that. And working through the steps. You know, it was a messy deal, right. But I was I was able to get through resentments. And I was able to get through a lot of that stuff. Because this program gave me the tools to be able to move through that stuff to get to a place of forgiveness of self and others around so many things across so many relationships. And that's really the power of the program that I work on a daily basis is that it? It really restores my relationship with myself, the God of my understanding, and the people around me, yeah, those three elements are really important in life. And I was able to get those right, working these steps. And I continue to add tools to my toolkit to be able to sustain a meaningful recovery and continue on my path of wellness, in that, how I interact with people matters, the actions I choose matter. And so today is, you know, a very different kind of experience because of the tools I've accrued throughout my recovery. Wow,

Carl Fessenden: 45:23

that's, that's so tremendous Charlene and I really, I mean, I have to say, I'm so blessed to have friends like you to have people that that do podcasting. Because, man I really like if I hadn't started podcasting, man, I wouldn't have met all of these amazing people like you Charlie and to hear your stories on shows like this. And this very, it's, it's, I feel so intimate of this episode, and the the truth and the honesty, and the acceptance of yourself and all of these wonderful things that are going on during during this moment right now with you and me and and the people listening. So, you know, just my gratitude is full right now. because I'm able to sit here with you, and listen to your story, and I want to thank you for that man.

Charlie: 46:24

Thanks, brother. I appreciate that. And I appreciate being here with you being able to share it.

Carl Fessenden: 46:29

Yeah, absolutely. So, Charlie, let's talk a little bit about the way out and how you got into the podcast. It sounds like you would listen to podcasting. Originally, when you were kind of coming into recovery, very similar to myself, I listened to your podcast, and I listened to Shane Kramer's podcast. And you know, so there were there was there are some similarities there, between you and I, with that. And so, tell us a little bit about the show. And how did you come up with the name and and what is your podcast all about? Man?

Charlie: 47:08

It's great question. So the inspiration came because as I said earlier, this time in recovery coming in, I truly listened to people for the first time. And their stories really moved me and started changing me in profound ways. And truly gave me hope and a true desire to do work, deep, uncomfortable work in order to get what they got. So I also listened to a lot of speaker tapes. But I'm thinking like, like these stories have to get out of the church basements? Yes. They have to get out of the speaker tape. And if they do, then other people will have a chance to hear these stories, and maybe it will change them too. Yeah. And the physical this thought wouldn't go away. But that was also mixed with another thought, which was the last two attempts at recovery me you only cared about what you had to say. You weren't interested in anybody else, or what they had to say. So it was also a way to make an amend and share other people's stories. So that was the impetus of it. A the stories need to get out because they're going to help people. And they're going to change people. They're going to show people that this thing's possible, that rewarding, meaningful recovery is possible. And they're gonna show you how to do it. Yeah. Because they're gonna tell you how they did it. And that was the impetus, I call it the way out as an open mind to The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, which was originally going to be titled The way out. Hmm. But there was already at least one book, I think, many called that. So they, they didn't want to call it that. So they just simply called it Alcoholics Anonymous. So it's a no mind to the original working title of The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And this, the podcast shows the way out. Yeah. Everybody who shares a story that shows how they got out.

Carl Fessenden: 49:58

Absolutely. And you you guys have been been doing podcasting. And I also have to we have to mention Jason, who is one of your co host, Jason and he was on. He was on the recovery revolution live show, which I co host. He was one of our one of our hosts on there

Charlie: 50:17

is a brother from another mother. He is so great. He's amazing. I started the podcast by myself. And at some point, I'm like, I need a co host like, man, do I need a co host because I cannot do this thing sustainably by myself to release one episode. We do one episode a week every week. Yeah. And I just it was burning me out a little bit. Yeah. It's a lot of work. You know, that car casts a lot of work.

Carl Fessenden: 50:45

Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah,

Charlie: 50:50

it's been a beautiful relationship. Jason is a tremendous human being. I love that guy. He produces tremendous interviews. Yeah. And it's, it's been a beautiful relationship. For now. He's, he's he joined episode 97. And we've got 281 Yeah, you do the math. That's amazing. He's been a part of it for a good stretch.

Carl Fessenden: 51:21

Yeah. And you guys are so close to the amount of episodes that Shane has produced on his podcast, as he's, I think next week will be his 300th episode. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. So that's, that's pretty amazing. And, and for those of you that are listening, I want to let you in on a little secret because Shane Raymer. And Charlie and I, we are going to be getting together and doing a live stream. On Charlie, what did we say March 14. We did say that March 14, which is going to be a Monday. And it's going to be at I believe, if 5pm or 6pm. Pacific Standard Time, we will our shows we'll be releasing more information about that, as it gets a little bit closer. But we are going to be doing a live stream and it's going to be myself, Shane, Charlie, and our other good friend who I don't think Charlie or Shane have met before. But Brett from The recovery survey podcast. So we're going to have four podcasts host talking recovery. And it's it's gonna be so awesome. Because I heard the roundtable that you and Shane did on on one of his episodes. I think it was like three months ago or something. Yeah. And that was so cool. I was driving down to Monterey. And it was one of the episodes that I caught driving down there. And I was like, Oh, I've got to get out on this man.

Charlie: 52:50

It was tremendous. It was a blast doing that panel. With Jason. Yeah, Dean. The old way out podcast co host Seine River and static. That was great. We had a great time. You heard it here. First, folks. March 14, we are gonna have a tremendous panel discussion with for recovery. podcasters I can't wait. Yeah,

Carl Fessenden: 53:15

it's gonna be amazing, man. It's gonna be my first panel. And with with no guests, we're just going to be talking talking about us. We're going to be talking about recovery. And we're going to be talking about maybe some crazy shenanigans that we've gotten into before like that. Yeah. Everybody else. We all have to give a shenana Yeah,

Charlie: 53:36

I've got a few yarns.

Carl Fessenden: 53:38

Well, you almost get your hand off, man. So you know, I have I have faith in you, Charlie for coming up with some pretty good material for us.

Charlie: 53:51

I've got a few yards I can spend about 10 days gone by car. Right.

Carl Fessenden: 53:55

Exactly. Shane's gonna bring up his story about pulling the ebrake going into is called a sec, I'm sure. Have you heard that story? I have not no. Okay. Yeah, so why don't you bring that up? I will. But I heard him say that on that interview, and I just envisioned like, the slow motion Fast and the Furious scene going where it's just like slow motion or pulling as a break in front of like, his whole family and he's drunk and just awful. So yeah, that's that's gonna be classic man. Absolutely. So well, great, man. You know, I got I got a little something for you, Charlie. And you are going to love this. Because right now, brother, it is time to do a little rapid fire questions. My friend. How does that sound? You ready? Alright. rapid fire round. Okay, Salty or sweet. Sweet. Morning or evening? Morning. summer winter Do you prefer driving or flying? Driving? Do you kill? Do you kill bugs you find inside or take them outside?

Charlie: 55:14

I used to kill them now

Carl Fessenden: 55:18

wow, you're you're a much better person. I am on my live stream last week there was a spider that was trying to escape my my view and I smashed it on the wall during the live stream. Oh, and I have to tell you, I'll tell you my my my story later after we do this. All right. Do you believe in ghosts? Yes. Hmm. Do you believe in soulmates?

Charlie: 55:41

Yes, but not just one.

Carl Fessenden: 55:43

Do you sleep with stuffed animals? Can you freestyle rap? Absolutely not. Oh, I was gonna say Man, if you could do that. We're so doing that on the live stream. All right. What is your favorite board game?

Charlie: 55:58

Whoa, I like that. I would be it's probably a little bit out there but it's called. Probably less favorite now. So let's take it to ride.

Carl Fessenden: 56:13

Okay, okay, cool. What was your major in college?

Charlie: 56:19

organizational leadership.

Carl Fessenden: 56:21

Whoo. I like that. All right. What is your lazy go to dinner?

Charlie: 56:27

Oh, leftover leftovers. Whatever's left over the fridge we cook all weekend we have a leftover night and it's my favorite night.

Carl Fessenden: 56:34

Okay. All right. All right. What is a good spy? codename for you?

Charlie: 56:47

Spy Cody you got me? Ah, ah, tacos.

Carl Fessenden: 57:00

I'll give you a bell for that one. Alrighty. And what is your favorite movie genre? Western Western. Okay. And the last question that we always ask all of our guests on the drunken warm podcast. Who is your favorite Disney character?

Charlie: 57:17

Hmm. Now, I've got some clarifying questions.

Carl Fessenden: 57:24

Everybody always has clarifying questions about this one.

Charlie: 57:28

Disney's kind of an empire. Right. Okay, own they own number of franchise. Right. So

Carl Fessenden: 57:39

anything within the Disney franchise? Anything within the Disney franchise?

Charlie: 57:45

Is Marvel within Disney?

Carl Fessenden: 57:48

I don't think it is. But Star Wars is. Whoo. Yeah.

Charlie: 58:01

I'm gonna go with Scrooge McDuck.

Carl Fessenden: 58:09

Scrooge McDuck. That is interesting.

Charlie: 58:15

Because that's like, the penny pinching is sort of like to me that's Nickelodeon. Right. But Mr. Krabs he's like my spirit animal. Yeah, right. Give me my money. Yeah. So yeah, I'm going with Scrooge McDuck.

Carl Fessenden: 58:32

Alright, that's, that's definitely a good one there for you know, we'll give you a ding for that one, too. Thank you very much, Charlie. All right. Well, my friend, it's been a blast having you on this show. Tremendous episode today. And I can't wait for this to air man. It's gonna be so amazing. But why don't you wrap up the show for me, and let people know how to find you. Where can they find the podcast? And if they want to get a hold of you? And you know, what's the whole process, man?

Charlie: 59:02

Yeah. I appreciate that. Carl. We love doing what we do. We love sharing powerful recovery stories and recovery power topics. Every week, with amazing folks just like you. You can find us at all the main podcast aggregators, iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and the whole slew of them the way out podcast. Now you can reach me at share at Weigh out cast.com That share at Weigh out cast that calm, or you can just go to weigh out cash all one word.com and has all the great info there as well. We're doing recovery coaching, I just completed not too long ago, I'm a recovery coach professional. And so we've added that as a service for our listeners, and anybody who wants to take advantage of some recovery coaching. So that we can really help you with your recovery from a more intimate perspective, great way to be able to take advantage of that, but weigh out cast calm, and that gets you everything you'd ever want.

Carl Fessenden: 1:00:14

Absolutely. Well, Charlie, it has been an honor and a pleasure to have you on the show. And if you guys would like to go over to Charlie's website or find his podcast, the way out podcast, we will be providing the links in our show notes. So be sure to check those out so that you guys do not miss a beat. And you can follow us. And again, if you're on Apple podcasts, hit that subscribe button and send us a like, or give us five stars or four stars. Hopefully not three stars. But however you feel you want to be generous with the stars. And give us a give. Let us know how we're doing because I'll be honest with you guys, you know, we put all this content out there. And a lot of time it's it's very kind of blinding. Well, not blinding, but we put it out there and it's sometimes we don't get feedback. So the more you guys can give us feedback about episodes if you really liked the episode, or you have show suggestions for both podcasts. It's really appreciated to get in contact with us. If you want to go to my website, you can always sign up for our email club. We're starting to do a little bit more with that. I have like four people on the email club. So I'm kind of holding off on sending out emails because I don't want to lose those four people if I sit on like 10 emails a month. But as the club is going to grow, it will allow you to be filled in on upcoming guest episodes, and also the recovery revolution live, we're going to be putting out notifications so that you guys can watch the live show. And that show airs every Thursday at 5pm Pacific Standard Time. You go over to YouTube, and you type in recovery revolution live, and that will take you over to our live channel. So again, Charlie, it's been great pleasure having you on the show, sir.

Charlie: 1:02:06

It's been an absolute pleasure as well Carl, you are an amazing human. So thank you for having me on and everybody out there. If you are in a place where your substance use has got unmanageable. Ask for help. And you will be amazed at the support that will come your way if you just ask for that

Carl Fessenden: 1:02:38

help. Absolutely. And remember, you ain't got to live like that. No more