Can I Be My Own General Contractor?

We often get asked by potential clients, if they can be their own general contractor. 

Our answer: Do you have previous building experience? 

In this episode we sit down and discuss when it is a good idea and not so good of an idea for clients to act as their own GC. We reveal the biggest challenges that people face when trying to be their own builder and why hiring a professional general contractor is the best option in most cases. 

Breck also shares insight to why he hired his own builder, despite having years of experience in the field. 

Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn: 

• Can you be your own GC?
• Why banks limit a client's flexibility. 
• What is a sworn statement and why you need it.
• The level of involvement a general contractor has in a project.
• Breck's project Highlight Of The Week: Blackridge Farms (coming soon)

Link to full show notes.

Learn more about the Cochrane Home here.

Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new project releases, trainings, and more. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts Leslie Horn, Brett Crandall, and Claire Ovilla. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality. We are filming today's episode the day before Thanksgiving. So we're all in high spirits. We've got Leslie back on the podcast today. If you like listening, yeah, if you've been listening to the last few episodes, you know we had Jill, who's our director of projects, filling in. And we're uh we're excited to get into today's topic, which is a question that is asked, I wouldn't say all the time, but enough that we felt it was important to cover on an episode. And I do feel that we've got a lot of people um following along on Instagram and you listening might have had this question too, which is can I be my own GC? So there's uh there's a little bit of nuance to this question, which is why we wanted to just make a whole episode on it. So before we get into this question of can I be my own GC for my project, I'm gonna pass the mic over.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

General contractor, by the way. Um also known as builder for you know for residential scale, but general contractor, builder, you get you get the yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

There you go. Breck, while you're on here, do you wanna do you wanna share a project highlight of the week?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, definitely. Um love to share this project highlight of the week because it speaks to the topic of the day. Um, these particular clients uh who own a massive tree farm, actually. So they're they're harvesting um fast growth pine trees in Virginia. Um it's called Black Ridge Farms, and they are going to serve as their own general contractor uh because they are in a very rural setting, and they've already disclosed this and covered all of the questions with their uh financial lending partner. Um, they are able to build their own home, uh, which is actually a plausible scenario, and we'll get into that. But Blackridge Farms is going to be uh a really cool house. Uh, it is three containers on the lower level, two containers on the top, all 40-foot high cubes. So, this is one of our container home projects. They are building a full basement underneath that. Uh, it's gonna have three bedrooms, um, two baths. There will be a uh large walkout upper deck and a lower deck that are connected by a staircase on the exterior. Uh ultimately, they will have a swimming pool uh in the backyard, which I think is a pretty, pretty nice little detail to add on there. Uh, there's it's a really dynamic design because uh the containers actually change position from the first story to the second story. So the upper level goes perpendicular and they have a large cantilever off of this one, which I know is always that that focal moment in the uh design that that draws a lot of attention and energy to it. Uh and the uh the entire project overlooks a private pond that is their retention for the majority of the property. So really, really gorgeous area. Uh, I was fortunate enough to actually go out and meet the clients. Um, the the farm has been passed down a couple generations and their family, and now they're caretaking for it. And uh just just beautiful slice of paradise uh in Virginia. So we're we're looking forward to getting that one rolling. We are probably gonna start construction on that one like first thing in spring. Uh, as soon as the thaw is up up here, that spring situation is really prime for building uh in that like middle climate on the East Coast. So Black Ridge Farms, Project Highlight of the Week. Watch for rendering, setting social media shortly. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Nice. Yeah, by the time this episode releases, we may or may not have a link in this description. So check out the description below. You can see if we've got a link to that project in particular. And at the very least, if that one's not quite released yet, then we'll have a link to our full portfolio and you can check out some of these other projects that we might be referencing. So on today's topic of can I be my own general contractor? This is a question that when people are calling in, we often get. And if you are one of those people and you've asked this question, then you've probably received a question back, which is have you built anything before? So if this is the first project that you're ever developing, probably not the best idea to also be the first project you're building.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

But uh, how brave you are, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

I know, no, but you know, it's also very interesting because like I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna ask a question here to Mr. Breck because Breck, I know you have experience in construction, and for goodness sakes, you have designed a gazillion houses from I mean, and and I I can't even share with you. I mean, I know we probably have like completed builds just from three squared. I can't imagine how many more on the other side in your work experience prior, but you know, you've you've rubbed your sticks and bricks together and you've helped Habitat for Humanity, and now you are building your own home. You designed it and you're building your own home. And one of my biggest curious questions is why did you hire a general contractor when you have all this experience? This is um this is a good question.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Uh well, the the short answer is because the bank told me I had to.

unknown 5:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

So I mean it's longer answer. I don't know about a gazillion homes, but I've I've probably designed a couple hundred homes uh in my in my 14 years in the profession. Um I've built I've built uh seven homes from the ground up um in relief efforts, and then I've done gut renovations of historic homes and commercial properties, done a bunch of commercial build-outs. So yeah, I I do have construction experience, which is really helpful because um there's an old adage that you know builders hate architects. Well, I mean, I kind of know why now we're we're terrible. Uh so you know, there's an expertise on both sides of the fence, and you got to be friends with one another. So, why did why did I hire a builder? Um, well, uh when you work with a financial institution, the first things first, it's up to them, it's not up to you. So there are a lot of banks that will allow you to build your own home, unquotes. But a lot of those banks will require you to work with a general contractor. And we'll get into some of those reasons as to why exactly that is. Uh, personally, for me, um, I know where the knowledge gap exists in in my head, and uh, I I also work a full-time job. Um, building a house is uh a part-time job at the very least. Yeah, some weeks it feels like a full-time job on top of a full-time job. And if you if you're building your own project um or involved in developing your own project, you understand what I'm saying. So uh a lot of that was support for the project uh to provide that financial wherewithal of when the money needs to flow and the dollar amounts that are behind all that. And uh the other half is that I I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at. Uh for instance, I can't touch an electrical outlet without shocking myself. I just even if I turn the panel off, I turn the wrong panel off. Like every time I've shocked myself so many times on AC current. Um lucky to be standing, thank goodness.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Oh, is this why you have a little bald spot on your beard?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, no, that's just because I can't grow facial hair, but you know, I'm trying anyways. Thanks for the shout out, Leslie. Yeah. But I'm really good at plumbing, I'm really good at natural gas lines, uh, I'm fine with framing, drywall finishing, those kind of things. Tiling is one of my favorite parts of the project. So there are moments where, you know, I'm I'm happy to jump in. I mean, another thing to be mentioned on on this project, which is the Cochrane home, we've done an episode about that. We're gonna be doing more episodes because uh construction is on full swing. I just was stopping by the site this morning. The foundations are in and we're uh we're starting to prep for the uh the slab, the finished slab, which would be the floor of the home. Uh and so we just uh we we're we gotta work together as a team. Like the architect has to work with the builder, and everybody has to be involved in order to make this happen. It's it's no one party. And so I'll just take this moment to remind all the listeners that finding a general contractor is is actually your responsibility. Uh, it's not the responsibility of the architect or the designer. Um, we've said this before in previous podcasts, but I just want to refresh everybody's memories that the contractual relationship in any built project is a V shape. And you can think of the client being at the bottom of the V and at the top of both ends is on one side your architect and your engineering team, and on the other side is your general contractor. Now it's a V shape, not a triangle, because there is no contractual relationship between a builder and an architect. Everything gets filtered back through the owner to approve all conversations. However, you do want the team to work together as a trifecta. You've heard us say it before, but I'll keep saying it. It takes three to tango. You need a good builder, a good owner, and a good architect in order to make any projects feasible. Uh, but it is a contractual relationship. In the same way that you reached out and hired your architect, you will have to reach out and establish a relationship contractually with your builder because ultimately you will be paying the builder. The reason why those contracts exist in that V shape is because the architect and the builder never pay one another. Um, that's for a lot of good reasons, but I think that simplifies it enough.

unknown 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So, Claire, when you got people coming in and they're like, I want to build my own thing. Uh, I mean, the first question obviously is like, well, do you have any experience building? Because if you don't, maybe not the best idea. Uh, maybe not the worst idea either, because we also get a lot of people who come in and say, I'm really good at pretty much everything, I can handle it. But there are more implications. So, how do you kind of navigate that process? Um, because that sales pipeline happens far in advance of talking to Leslie or talking to myself and my team on the design side of things. So, how do you kind of navigate them and steer them in the right direction? And what kind of other questions are you priming them with before you move forward?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

The biggest things are, I mean, the biggest thing is really asking them to do a little bit of homework. So we can't possibly know based off of where your project is, because we can't possibly know all the rules and regulations of every municipality in the US. So oftentimes I'll ask them to do a little bit of homework on their area where they're looking to build and just find out first of all, do you need to be licensed? Do you need to be bonded in order to be your own builder? Are you even going to be allowed to build your own home? That's really the first thing. And then I know that there's also some implications that you alluded to, Breck, with working with a bank that they might not let you be your own builder as well. And so again, we can't possibly know all of the rules and regulations of all of these different banks, but are there any major things that you guys have seen through that process on the financing side as far as whether or not someone can be their own builder based off their financing?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

I I've seen it possible. I've also seen where the owner-builder will, you know, has a brother-in-law who is a licensed GC, and they're like, Well, it's all good because I'm just gonna use my brother-in-law's GC license, and they're gonna draw, they're gonna, you know, it all has to do with the bank funding and financing, right? And the draw schedule, which all is under control of the general contractor. The bank typically will, you know, want to see and have them licensed, have them bonded. They want to see that the person um has experience, and you know, it's some of these other rural areas, um, or you have to show that you have experience. Breck, you want to expand on that?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, well, why don't we break down a couple of these terms that were thrown out there real quick for the listeners? Um, just so it makes a little bit more sense. Uh, a general contractor is a licensed individual able to build in your municipality. Um now, let's pause for a minute because we live in the United States, which is complicated. Uh, we essentially live in 50 different states and like another four territories. So every one of those states has their own set of rules. So it's not the same across lines. So let me give you a silly situation. Technically, you don't have to have a builder's license to build a home. Or sorry, no, it's the opposite. You don't have to have a builder's license to build like a 14-story apartment building in the state of Michigan. You do, however, need a general contractor's license to build a home in the state of Michigan. So it's a little backwards here. Uh never made sense to me, but there's a licensed home building association in the state of Michigan where you have to carry a GC license in order to build a house, but not like a massive building. I've always I've always found that curious. Um, so every every state has like a little bit of a different rule. And then when you get into um, you know, more urban dense areas, you also have additional rules potentially. So you can be licensed to build in the state of Michigan, but you don't have the certifications necessary to build in the city of Detroit. Therefore, I'll just make a blanket statement here that um that that having a builder's license doesn't guarantee that you can work in any particular area. You do need to look into those additional regulations. And if you are trying to build in a very dense urban area, the chances of your bank allowing you to be your own general contractor is is pretty darn slim. Um, they don't necessarily allow that. You have a much better chance if you're in a rural area. Um, and we've also found through that process that credit unions or smaller financial institutions, uh, particularly credit unions that are tailored towards rural areas or like farmland homestead style things, are much more willing to be flexible with you as your own builder. Okay, so having a builder is basically someone that's going to tell the bank how much money they need and when they need it. We've thrown around a term called a sworn statement in past episodes. And so I just want to break down what a sworn statement is. A lot of people think that a sworn statement is a budget. Uh, it's not. A sworn statement is actually a spreadsheet or an itemized list provided to the bank that says, I need X amount of dollars for this very particular individual at this point in time. So then Leslie mentioned another term called a draw schedule. And a draw is when you take money from the bank. So say you get a loan amount for $300,000. That's your loan amount. Every time you take money out of that big chunk, that's called a draw. And your draw schedule is telling you, I need $10,000 for my foundation guy. I need $15,000 for my down payment for Windows, so on and so forth. So I'm going to take $50,000 of that $300 right now, and that's what you start paying interest on. So that's where having a general contractor can really be helpful is helping you manage that schedule of when money needs to flow, because you might not be thinking about all the order of operations, because certain things have to happen before other things, and other things overlap because you might not need windows for six months, but it's going to take them seven months to build them. So I need to get a down payment in immediately to start those doors and windows. Meanwhile, I'm paying people for removing trees and for an excavator and a well and a driveway, but I'm also paying portions in advance for things that aren't going to happen for quite a while.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

For example, containers and container modifications. Or if you're in a commercial building, perhaps an elevator. I mean, there's a lot of expenses that need to happen in advance. Just to your point, that doesn't make sense because they're not going to be installed like immediately. But it's it's all about the timing of it. And you know, the reason I I asked Breck, because you know, in hiring an arc um a general contractor, I mean, if if if you build it yourself, you're gonna save probably 15-20% right off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

I mean, like that's because of the fees that a contractor would charge you.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, it's it sometimes it makes or breaks a project. Uh, we've had clients, as you know, like I mean, like Seth and Emily from Box Hop who've got great experience and their systems work because of their experience and their general contracting and the way, I mean, they've got the they've got their formulas down. And then I know we've seen other clients who are just oh, like we're praying and hoping and doing whatever we can to support them during this process. It's it's just been a couple that I feel haven't been as successful, but you do have to have that experience.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, well, it helps when your family owns an excavation company. That's a lot of costs that are so project. Um, yeah, some people are cut out for it, other people aren't. Right. Um, and it can be a cost savings measure, but you gotta remember like you are taking on a job, a position of someone who's managing all of these various communications. I mean, general contractors probably spend more time on the phone than any other person I know. And I don't say that lightly being in this industry. So let's let's wrap up the first half of this conversation. If you had to kind of put it into words, when's a good idea to potentially be your own general contractor?

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah, I for me it would be um somebody who number one has a good experience. Uh, and number two, has the time. Let's say you're semi-retired, or you know, I I even if you work from home, I still don't think it's a good idea. Um, but I do believe if you have experience and the the external support around you and your family, if it's your single family home and your bank allows it, all by all means, have at it. And you know, pulling permits, I mean, all of these things that really the inspections, it's making sure that your foundation is poured correctly. I mean, all these little things that if you don't have experience, going through a book or a checklist is really um, it's not the best time to start that education. Um, so I would just say if you have experience, absolutely. If you're in a rural area, the bank allows it, and you have the um the external network family, friends that are there to support you, absolutely. Because you know, if you'll recall, we even had clients who have said, well, I can paint. I'll I'll do all the painting. So let's make sure the GC knows I'm gonna do all the painting. We don't get involved in those conversations. And, you know, maybe you're gonna save a thousand dollars or two thousand dollars. But you know, those are things, you know, you've got a friend who or a family member who owns an HVAC company. So those things are all really you can save some money, but discuss it with your GC because actually what you're doing is taking money away from them. So have those conversations up front. But yeah, I think um there are some good times in which you can absolutely make it a success. Our clients in the Black Ridge Farms, I think this is gonna be fantastic for them.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Well, that's a really interesting topic that you just kind of bled into a little bit there, Leslie. Um, but by saying you could potentially take work away from a general contractor. So I'm gonna break that down a little bit because there's also the type of contract and relationship that you set up with your builder can determine a lot. Um back in the day, it's like the early aughts, and you know, sooner, there was a time where uh lots of people were hungry for work, and so you would design a project and you would put it out to bid, which means that you would send this out to a variety of companies, and then all the companies would give you their butt best budget estimate, and you would have like three or maybe four, or possibly even five, or more competing bids to get your project. You would award one of them their dollar amount is what it was going to be. So that is called a stipulated sum contract. That stipulated sum means that that building's gonna cost what we told you it's gonna cost. If it costs less, I get to keep it. If it costs more, uh, I have to pay that out. So you can see where the loophole in this would be. If I do it cheaper and faster, I get to keep the extra money.

unknown 21:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Okay, so stipulated sums led to a lot of really terrible rushed construction and a lot of corner cutting so that the general contractor could pocket more amounts. So then we got into stipulated sum with shared savings so that maybe you negotiated if you do it under budgets, the owner gets to keep half of that savings, and the builder gets to keep half of that savings. A little bit more incentive for the owner to be more involved in controlling of that. And I've seen various contracts in between. It worked for a while, and then the recession hit, and then the pandemic hit, and now building, as we know, is a very different animal. Uh, and so the building contracts that I see most prevalently now are construction management contracts or a stipulated fee, or also known as a cost plus. So let me explain it like that. Cost plus relationship with your contractor means building costs, whatever it's gonna cost. I think the best way somebody told me this is market price. Building a house is like buying lobster. Whatever the market price is, that's what it costs. But you negotiate a stipulated fee with your general contractor, or they're gonna get paid that amount no matter what. Okay, so let's take a look at these two contracts side by side. If it costs what it costs all in, and if it costs more, I owe money, that's stipulated sums. The building's gonna cost exactly what it's going to cost, can cause some issues because the general contractor is being paid based on an amount for all the work that goes in. So if the builder hires framers, they get paid a percentage of that framer's work. They're always making a percentage of. Now, if you go with the general contractor relationship where it's a construction management contract and they're getting paid a set fee no matter what happens. Now, to Leslie's point, you have a lot more flexibility on the things that you allow the general contractor to do or not do. Because if I'm going to drywall myself, if I'm going to install the dishwasher myself, so on and so forth, that's not taking money away from a general contractor. They're still going to get their fee no matter what. And so the relationship of a construction management contract or a cost plus fee is the other way of saying that, has been uh a lot more beneficial to the people who don't necessarily want to be their own general contractor, but do have the ability to do a lot of the work. And then to Leslie's point, again, you can negotiate that with your general contractor. You can talk to them and say, hey, just leave that out of the budget, leave this out of the budget. I'm going to handle all that stuff. My buddies are going to all come over, we're going to lay the flooring ourselves. And the general contractor, as long as you do the work to their quality, isn't going to really care because they're still getting their fee. Anything else you want to add to that, Leslie?

SPEAKER_02 25:03

No, that was really well said. And I think, you know, that it's it's important on what type of contract. I think that was like this is that golden nugget that we didn't even plan on talking about. It's amazing. Um, I it's it is so important.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Absolutely. Okay, so let's wind things down with uh when is it a bad idea to be your own general contractor? I'm gonna open this one up, both Leslie and Claire. If you guys have thoughts on people that you talk to, you're like, I don't think this is a good idea. Why?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Well, it's it's I mean, if they've never done it, I honestly, I mean, I've seen people say, Well, I think I could probably save some and you know, I can I can hire somebody to do my foundations and I can hire an electrician. Um and and but you know, if you haven't don't have the experience, I mean here's the deal. We always talk about tuition, right? Like if you don't have experience, you just know that number one, you're going to pay tuition somehow. And that tuition, I we have seen disasters where people want to save money so they've gone with the cheapest contract or the cheapest this, or they want to take on portions of it. And um, it's just a disaster. They end up paying more. Um, if you don't have experience, I would actually I wouldn't use your first house as it unless you're self-funding and financing it, honestly. Um if you're working with a bank, don't do it. I mean, look at Breck. I mean, Breck, you could have saved some significant money on your home. And I think you made such a wise decision. Um, the bank made you make that decision. But I I also know, I mean, you came to it from a realistic point of view.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Well, and I also, I mean, this is this is, as you may or may not know, a prototype house of you know what Three Squared and our partnership with home HOUM can achieve. Uh, and it's right up the street from Three Squared's first project, which is our model center, uh, which is the the container uh townhouse, the two units. So we're gonna have these two projects side by side. And in order to be the prototype of a house, and in order to talk very specifically and pointedly to people about true costs, I also didn't want to get involved because I needed to know what this cost in a turnkey operation. Not if I piecemealed it and I did a bunch of work and handed a bunch of work to you know my friends and family. Um, we needed to see what true costs were so that we could project that. So that's another rationale as to why I chose this particular path. Um, but also I'm I'm pretty strapped for time. I don't have time to do what my builder Ty is doing because he's on the phone and in spreadsheets like constantly. So I want to remind everybody there's a there's a skill set to a general contractor. Um, you know, in today's day and age, a lot of people think of like my builder as the actual guy who's out there and swinging a hammer, pounding nails in and finishing a house. Okay, I dealt with that kind of contractor once in my career, and that guy was an absolute machine. He built an entire house by himself in eight months, like top to bottom. I'm talking like every screw, every window, one person did it all. It was insanity. I've never met that person again. So, most builders, I would I would say the majority of builders or general contractors are actually professional buyers and schedulers because they understand the order of operations and they're they're pulling the project apart in their brain based on the drawings that the architects and engineers have provided to them so that they can understand how this kit of parts, this infinitely complicated dance of all of these different parts and pieces, come together to finish your home. Now, if you don't have that X-ray vision and be able to explode things in your mind and put them back together in a certain sequence, then I would suggest working with the general contractor because they're gonna know when to produce money and who that needs to go to in what order in order to accomplish your project. You know, outside of the other obvious things that we've covered, it's like if you're getting financed through a bank, if you're getting a loan for a mortgage, then you have to ask your bank, are they even gonna allow you to serve as your own general contractor, or do they need a licensed GC to sign the sworn statement and provide that? Um, also, as we covered, some municipalities just flat out won't allow it. You know, if you're building out in the boonies, you probably can get away with it. Um, some municipalities, even we found, don't even have building regulations. You just build whatever you want and as long as it doesn't kill you, nobody really cares. Those are fun areas to work in because a lot less red tape. So we can move a lot faster and it and it does take care of a lot of the costs. But if you're building in a rural setting versus an urban setting, the urban settings like building in like a large city like a city of Detroit, Chicago, Columbus, like probably not even an option. But it's worth asking if you want to save that money. Um, you know, outside of that one contractor that I worked with, very few people can do everything. I know, I know, I know you think you can. That's great. Um, but it's it's very rare that you find somebody who's skilled in all trades. It's like, you know, Michael Jordan taking on a baseball career. Like, yeah, you're okay, but like that's not your calling, right? Like you might be a master plumber, but you're not a master plumber and an electrician and a finisher and a rough carpenter. Like, you know, there's a reason why all of these trades have to come together. So choose your battles. Choose your battles. And you might, if you go with the cost plus contract, you might be able to negotiate some of those things and do the things that you're good at and let your contractor hire the people who are good at the things that you're not. That's a best case scenario. That's what I would suggest for most people in this conversation. Uh, and those are the reasons why it could be a bad idea for you to play your own general contractor.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

You know, we've we've had the pleasure of speaking to several people, some on our podcast and some not. Uh, you know, the the Pacific Ben guy. I love that guy. I mean, like he even spent the night in his car. He worked full-time, would leave his job, run over. I mean, and he was committed. I mean, he also was, you know, in his early 20s. So he loved her energy, but he also had some skills and he had family and he got to document every step of the way. Again, um, the box hop. I mean, there so there there are times when, yeah, it's awesome. But I can tell you that if if you don't have that experience, you you gotta learn it. I mean, and and and I just I wouldn't learn it on your own home, I wouldn't learn it on someone else's home. I'd probably just go and work at Habitat for Humanity or go do a side hustle somewhere and and and just follow somebody. But yeah, Breck, I think you've been very succinct with like when it's a bad idea. And I'm gonna say 95% of the time, it's it's a bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

All right, we've covered a lot of ground. Hopefully, you have a better idea of if you are qualified to be your own builder. Starting with the question, have I built anything? And second question is, will my bank allow it? Yeah. Certainly, is you know, that you have a skill set. Uh, don't don't try to take on everything. Um, and when you do hire a general contractor, just always remind yourself you get what you pay for. Oh true. Don't question people's price. Uh that's that's kind of a a statement that I've lived by and it's served me well for many years. If somebody tells you how much that they're worth, don't question their worth. They've they've earned their keep there. Um, and if you go with the lowest option, which most people usually do, um, you will regret you know the siding falling off in a couple of years and the roof leaks you might have and the chimney that they forgot to put in, or the saw-cut slab that cut through all of your hydronic tubes for your entire floor heating system. I've seen it all. So just remind yourself that the cheapest option is not always the best option. And sometimes going with the cheapest option will cost you more in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

That's true. Well said. I was just gonna say those examples were weirdly specific, Breck.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I wonder why we could go on on that one.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Oh boy. All right. Well, I'm happy that we have this episode now as a resource because now when people ask this question, there's just not enough time on a phone call to go into all this nuance. And I'm so thrilled to have this to send out. And I hope this has been helpful for you if you've been listening along. If you do have a project that you're looking to get some architectural support on, please go ahead and check out the description of this podcast where you can find our contact link. You can find the show notes page, a full description um outline of this episode with all of the key points and everything else. It's all linked in the description. Go check it out. We'll be back in two weeks with the next episode. See you on the next one. Yes, so well. Thanks, ma'am. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you found it so valuable, you want to connect with us one-on-one, click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started. And to get notified on the next episode here on Innovative Real Estate, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes so you never miss a beat. Get out there, put today's advice into action, and we will see you in the next episode.