Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
As specialists in efficient residential and commercial prefabricated design, Leslie Horn, Breck Crandell, and Jill Ramirez of Three Squared, Inc. share their greatest insights, tips, and case studies from their years of experience in the industry. They'll be giving you their best advice through, trainings, guest features, and Q&A segments so you can turn your innovative vision to a reality.
Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
Redefining Modular Buildings with Guardian Structural Technologies
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As you know our Director of Design, Breck Crandell is building his own home - and it's NOT going to be built out of shipping containers.
His home using houm technologies is utilizing specialized styrofoam panels, a innovative building material created by Guardian Structural.
In this episode we sit down with Guardian to explore their cutting edge building material and explore the future of innovative building options. The Guardian team explains what sets their panels apart from other SIPS, the scalability of their product, and how their materials provide big cost savings when it comes to heating and cooling.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn:
- Who is Guardian Structural
- What are the benefits of building with Guardian Panels
- Structural versatility and scalability
- Who could benefit from building with this material
- How Guardian Structural meets Passive House certification
Show notes
To learn more about Guardian Structural and the work they are doing head to their website.
Supplementary episodes:
Phius House with Kat Klingenberg
Reimaging Multifamily Housing with Susan King of HED
Part 3: Cochrane Home Update
Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.
Make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new project releases, trainings, and more.
Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts, Leslie Horne, Brett Crandall, and Claire O'Learl. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality. Welcome back to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast. We've got another amazing guest. In fact, we've got three guests on today's show. And if you heard last week's episode, which was the full breakdown on the progress for the Cochrane Home, which is our Director of Design's new home that is in progress, then you are likely going to have a bit of a heads up on what we're diving even deeper into today. As you know, we've been having so many conversations around the state of the housing industry today and all of the innovative methods that we're exploring and incorporating into the projects that we're working with with our clients. And today we've got Steve DiMaria, DJ Keahan, and Brett Crudell from Guardian Structural on the podcast today. And they are going to dive so deep into this alternative framing method that we're incorporating into some of these projects. And we're really excited to answer some of the questions that you guys have been sending in and just give you the full scoop on what this is and how it can be beneficial for your project as well, potentially. So we always kick off our episodes with a project highlight of the week, but we actually want to flip it around and highlight one of your projects. So I'd love to introduce you to Steve, DJ, and Brett. And if one of you can just, you know, just say hey and give us a bit of an update on these dormitories that you guys are working on, and then we'll get into the flow of the episode, um, diving into the actual product and some of the benefits and its use case applications.
SPEAKER_06Sure. Hi, this is DJ. Uh the project that we're going to be talking about today is called Wilbur Force University. It's located in Xenia, Ohio. The project that we're uh commandeering is a 10 dormitory building, 10 dormitory buildings that are approximately 7,300 square feet apiece, three stories, and will house approximately 36 students in each dormitory. So yielding roughly 360 new beds for the university. The driver behind this, of course, is the sustainability focus of the university. Our big driver is the thermal installation of our walls and our roof. Um that actually saves the university about 85% on the utility costs that are utilized for the building. Um, this is a building that's owned by the university, so they um are highly motivated to utilize a um cost reduction uh building system. So ours fit right into their goal.
SPEAKER_04That's awesome. That's a really cool project. Uh, I know that you guys have shown us where you're at in the process with the drawings of the design, and uh really excited to see that project go up. Now, that is a different architect. We actually met you guys through one of our existing clients. Um, and I'll give a I'll give I'll give a brief background on that conversation because when this particular client who's building four duplex buildings, like four identical buildings down in Ohio, uh, he came to us with, he's like, Oh, I got this building product, it's gonna frame all the walls and be insulation. I I'll be honest, I kind of rolled my eyes a little bit because uh I've I've met other people who do that stuff before. Um, and then they sent me the website and I was like, okay, all right, we got we got all these products, these buildings are going up. All right, well, let's see what it what happens. Then I met you guys on a call, then we started talking more, and I started to understand the process, and then you sent me a sample. And I happened to be sitting in the room with a different client, with a developer. Um, at the time that we received your sample, and you didn't just send me a sample of a product, you sent me a whole corner of a building. So it was a wall that connected to another wall and then connected to a roof. So it was like if you chopped off a corner of a building, right at like where a roof meets the walls, and it had a window in there and all the supports. And I got this like 200-pound delivery at my doorstep. I couldn't figure out what it was, but we unboxed it with that client and we all just stood there for a second in awe, and it all clicked for me. Clicked for me so much that uh I ditched the way I was going to build my house, uh, the Cochrane home that we've discussed in multiple episodes here on this podcast, uh, in lieu of your building product, uh, which is now being built around the corner from us, and we're about halfway through framing, and it's it's been incredible. So we are now collaborating with you on a total of eight projects. So that's four duplexes, three single-family residences, and a commercial, like massive shed style building that's going to be a farmer's market here in Detroit. So we're actually applying this method of construction to a number of projects that that range in their applicability. So just wanted to give a brief intro of how we met each other and how much I support and believe in this product and your process because, well, I'm doing it for myself. So if that's any inclination that an architect would believe in a product enough to build his own house out of it, then I think we're on to something here. So I want to turn it back to you guys. Um, where did this idea start from? Uh and and what's the like the brief history or the timeline of how you got from where you started to where we are today?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's not a brief history, it's actually a pretty long history. Uh well, give us the abridged version. But I'll I'll talk fast. Uh Brett's father, actually, Mark Rudell, uh came upon this concept, similar concept uh in Canada, and he brought it down back to Cleveland. And it originally, I think it used to use two by fours that were embedded into the expanded polystyrene rigid insulation, and that's what his framing was. And then he realized that if you use galvanized steel and specifically galvanized steel tubing, you could uh use framing members opposed so there's no thermal connectivity embedded into the EPS and start building panels. So instead of light gauge steel steel studs, he used tubing and uh put them together in panelized form. And that that's basically been the concept that's been developed over the years. He started out mostly residential, then we did an awful lot of commercial, then we did some industrial, and over the years, 30, 40 years, Mark's been doing it. Um, we've done all kinds of projects. Uh again, we do hospitality, we do residential, single family, multifamily. What else? I mean, we do an amazing amount of different types of things, special applications for for processing where the thermal resistance and moisture resistance are all important characteristics.
SPEAKER_06So, again, depending on the application, um, we design the building accordingly. You know, Steve's in charge of engineering. Go through the process that we go through on laying a building out and how we kind of work the structure into our layout.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of hard to visualize it if you don't get the sample and get to poke your fingers in it and touch it. But again, it's it's a panelized building system where it's solid EPS insulation, and there's tubing where studs would typically be 24 inches on center. We have a pair of tubes, one on the inside, one on the outside, separated by the rigid insulation, and that's the key to the system. There's no thermal conductivity, and it's using expanded polystyrene, which is the best by far the best insulator per inch and per dollar. And uh, that's what makes it so amazing, really.
SPEAKER_02And before we uh go any further, I just want to guide anyone listening. While you're listening to this episode, you can actually go to there should be a link below, or you can search three squared ink on our Instagram and you can see our Instagram story highlight of the Cochrane home. We filmed the whole uh like we filmed all the framing days. So you can go and actually take a look at what they're talking about here. Go ahead, Breck. Thanks for letting me interrupt there.
SPEAKER_04No, it's a good plug. Um, for the sake of our listeners here, um but to to bring it to maybe something that you might uh more readily understand is that most homes today, in the United States in particular, are built out of lumber. So sticks, sticks and bricks, right? You frame the walls with uh pieces of two to two by dimensional lumber, and then you put your exterior material on and your interior material on. So what we're dealing with here is more alike, what's known as a SIP. So that is an acronym that stands for structural insulated panels. Now, traditional SIP panels are two-by lumber that frame around uh a sandwich of polystyrene. So basically white foam, as you would know it. Uh, but what Guardian has done is removed the wood from the conversation and just dealt with galvanized steel members that that take place of the wood. So the panels are just steel and wood. And something that I learned when I went down uh to Cleveland, where Guardian Structural Technologies is based out of and met with the team, is that um EPS, which is the white foam that make up the bulk of these panels, is not only an incredible insulator, cost effective, um, but it also is the only type of styrofoam that we know of that is 100% recyclable, as is the steel. So that means that the the building chunks, because these panels come, you know, six, eight, sometimes wider feet wide by however tall the building is, uh, and these panels are 100% recyclable. And they're also cutting down a construction waste on the job site, because when you get a big bundle of wood, you're taking the individual pieces and you're chopping each one, and you throw the scraps into a pile, that pile accumulates very quickly. And as you've heard us talk about on this podcast before, is um that construction waste is one of the biggest generators of garbage on the face of the planet. And so if we can optimize buildings that are panelized prefabricated systems, that's important to note. We talked about that too, is that prefabricated doesn't really change the way we build buildings on a job site. Modular does because modular, you have to have approvals off the site and all that jazz. But when we're dealing with prefabricated elements, those are just brought to the job site and put in place. And so if we take each panel and we put it exactly where it's supposed to go, we're not gonna have any waste. If we have waste, somebody's in trouble and gonna lose their job. But we we haven't yet because those panels are planned out in advance. Um, they're checked by the architects, the designers, the engineers. And when they come to the site, they go into the place that they should, and we don't have any leftover waste. So you don't have that dumpster on the job site that's just getting filled with scraps as you cut off piece by piece. So those are, I think, some of the major benefits outside of the benefits that you guys have already addressed here, um, like the sustainability and the energy savings, which is you know one of the primary drivers of why we want to use this envelope type. So, is there anything else that you would like to discuss around the difference between your system and what people would traditionally think of as a SIP?
SPEAKER_06So, yes, the uh the shield, we call them shield panels. That's our differentiation between us ourselves and SIP panels. Um, the other key element on that is the SIP panels, as you had mentioned, most SIP panels are made out of wood, and then also have OSB on the interior and exterior. So when we're talking about um moisture-rich climates, climates, they that wood is exposed to a very high degradation due to the moisture, the drying, the the the infiltration of the the uh water or humidity, that degradates over time, and as well as the uh critter control that that we provide as EPS, where it's an inert material that doesn't allow for ants, termites, uh rodents, things of that nature to eat and burrow into the the material. So again, the fact that we use the galvanized steel and the EPS, it kind of creates a little bit different of an envelope compared to the standard SIP panel. So that's that's a big different differentiation between the shield panel and the sit panel.
SPEAKER_02So then that would probably be a great, great uh barrier against mold as well, right? Because that's a huge problem. I mean, when I moved to Austin with my husband, we I mean, we will really only look at new houses now because we know in this city there's been freezes, a lot of pipes have been damaged, and mold is just infesting a lot of these houses underneath. So I would be really attracted to a property that would have something like that that would really mitigate against mold.
SPEAKER_06That's correct. So, yes, our panels also are mold um resistant. So there's no again um no organic material for it to actually keep growing or um infiltrating into. So, yes, it's uh it's a moisture, mold resistant uh substrate.
SPEAKER_00The other big advantage, one of the big advantages of EPS uh insulation is that it breathes. So if you get moisture or water trapped in the house in the wall, it's gonna eventually breathe out. You know, it's gonna either go to the outside or even go into the inside, and eventually it'll dissipate. It doesn't get trapped at where it can just build up and create mold. Wow, that's yeah.
SPEAKER_04If you got more, keep them rolling.
SPEAKER_06Well, the other advantage is yeah, you know, you talked a little bit about the sustainability. Well, one of our drivers is conservation, right? We're looking to conserve time, money, and effort. So from a standpoint of how you're and you and working with you, Breck, it's a great example. As the architect, you know, you feed us plans. We build this engineered product that has the structural components built into it, and then we bring it out to the field, and then it gets erected in a very short amount of time. I think we spent a day with you, and you got the whole first floor up in a day with guys that had never even seen our product before. So again, you know, it's conservation of time, it's conservation of also skilled labor. Um, I know you had a couple of carpenters out there, but you know, basically we were all just uh putting up panels, screwing them together, and it wasn't there was no requirement for somebody um of any kind of skill set to be there other than working the level and the plum. And then, you know, the deforestation part. We the limited amount of the lumber we use on the plates, you know, we're we conserve forestry, right? So we don't, we're not really impacting the deforestation of our of our you know um forest lands. And then finally, on top of all that is time. So we're we're conserving the time it takes for you to get us drawings, get the product built and shipped to you. So in a short period of time, we had your house turned around in roughly about a week once we got the final drawings. So again, that whole construction time, conserving that, and then the money side of it, right? We're gonna serve you, you your house alone is gonna save tons of money over the life of you living there. Um, you went with the high-end um HVAC system and the the the heating, cooling of the waters in your floors and and your second floor. Um, I can't imagine your utility bill being more than a couple, couple uh $20, $25 a month once you get up and operating.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, it's well, again, another topic we've covered here before is is the true cost of buildings isn't in what you build on day one. Everyone's obsessed with this idea of what does it cost per square foot? It's like, well, that's a terrible way to think about buildings. How much am I going to be paying every month for the rest of the life that I'm living in this building? And that's what's really appealing about your system is the the average house in America has more than two miles of air leaks and gaps in the construction. And, you know, the the old school method of fixing that is to just run around the building with caulk and ceilings and just, you know, stuff things in the corners and hope that it doesn't continue to leak air. But uh it doesn't matter how good your doors and windows are if there's gaps all over the place. It doesn't matter how much insulation you have in your building if there are gaps everywhere. But see, you're building really uh a product that that eliminates the option for a lot of those gaps as long as it's installed correctly, which you guys have been very supportive in uh helping me and my crew uh to put this thing together, but it really eliminates those those gaps in the construction that are leaking air constantly. So we're not just looking at the cost up front, which I'd say you're you're probably on par uh if you were like stick framing uh a new building. Um, I was looking at a product that was a little bit more expensive because I was looking at steel uh to frame the entire structure. But then you have to also factor in that your insulation is already included too. So whether there's cost savings initially, um, there's potential for cost savings because it goes a lot faster. So you've got to pick up on labor, most certainly. Uh, but then the lifetime of the building, I'm paying 20 to 25% of what I would be paying in a traditionally built structure for my heating and cooling bills month over month. And we know that for a fact because the uh the HVAC company that we got all of our materials and systems through uh actually did an energy report on this building. And we discussed this. And after they analyzed my structure with your panels and the insulation value, which I'm going with uh R40 walls and R60 roof, which is way above what the minimal requirements are in the Michigan Energy Code for our climate zone. Um, I'm gonna be paying about 75 bucks a month in the dead of winter to heat and cool 2,400 square feet of space. And that's pretty incredible. If you've ever looked at your heating and cooling bills, you know that that's uh that's something you should really be applauding.
SPEAKER_06Yep. Yeah. Very, very um well-designed system that you have that uh you're that the contractor put together for you. We it was very impressive. The other um thing, you know, conservative-wise, is uh the um the time, effort, and um building side that we provide, right? Our what we would consider our in-house production side. So again, that engineering side of it that comes in, your your plans come in, you're a structural engineer, worked with our structural engineer, kind of came together and then hit the production floor and was able to ship it to you. And then you had a house up once it shipped, you had a house up, you know, the first floor up in roughly one day. And then if if the weather would have permitted, I think by the end of the a week, we would have had everything under roof. So yeah, I mean, the the whole speed of the process is is also highly impactful.
SPEAKER_00The other thing is that whether you do an R30 wall, an R40 wall, an R50 wall, an R50 roof, or an R60 roof, the construction is exactly the same. All you're doing is taking panels that are already pre-built and you're erecting them. So it doesn't matter if it's an R30 wall or an R50 wall. The construction crew is still installing it the exact same way. You know, it's not like if you're gonna build a passive house with an R40 wall, you have to do build two walls, three layers of insulation, a significant amount of uh much more labor-intensive.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. No kidding. Geez, so uh yeah, you guys do have a lot of history. Um, when was the first Guardian building constructed? And I assume like most of you weren't on the team at that time, but uh a little trivia. Didn't you know when the first one was built?
SPEAKER_0683 is all I know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd say it was around 1984. I think it's 84. 84. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, we're uh even a twinkle in your dad's eye.
SPEAKER_04Wow, that's that's a that's really impressive. If you if you had to estimate, how many buildings do you think you guys have built so far?
SPEAKER_01About 1300. 1300? No, I think we'd build more now. I'd say thousands, yeah. Several thousand. Several years over 12 years, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So so this is Leslie here, and you know, you guys, you guys uh I've I've got so many little questions, and I gotta tell you first and foremost, to get Breck to shift all of his building material to frame his old house, I mean to his his current house to this, um, it was a super easy decision for him. We were really, really excited. The um couple of things because as we move forward with uh new projects, tell us some a little bit about the versatility as far as you know, fire rating between unit walls of an apartment complex or multifamily and how high can you go? And I mean, there's the structural capacity, I think, is super important in addition to meeting, you know, a lot of the a lot of the building code compliance for multifamily and commercial. Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, we fall in the prescriptive method of light gauge steel framing, so that's just engineered through our structural engineers. Uh even though we're using tubing instead of stud, it's the same materials and they have the same criteria. So they can do all their analysis of structural analysis based on light gauge steel framing. Uh the EPS code, uh, EPS is allowed as an insulating material. So that's how we fall into that. As far as fire rating, um, one layer of I think it's half into five base. Five base, type X, five Ace uh type X gives us one hour, two layers gives us two hours. So um typically we have it two hours, the best we can do. If we go to uh multifamily where you need higher than they usually go to some uh shaft wall or some other uh wall, or anyway, uh that's how that works out.
SPEAKER_04So it's well and I can uh I can attest to uh factor of that as well is um the panels do melt uh because they're foam. So uh when you put direct flame to them, they uh they certainly melt a little bit. But what they don't do is they don't catch fire, they don't have flames. And I know this because I did some welding out there and uh we definitely uh melted a little section, but there was no fire. And um I have I have worked on projects that did uh closed cell spray insulation, which is you know another great product that's out there. And when I have done welding next to closed cell spray insulation, it does catch fire. And so that's a huge difference uh between the uh the foam that you guys are using in your product and that, and while it's not a necessarily a um a fire-rated assembly in itself, it is a non-combustible construction type, which is fantastic. So then in terms of uh height capabilities or like scale of projects, you've talked about houses, you know, mine's two stories um with a cathedral ceiling in the roof. So we're going about 30 feet on my project. But you know, how tall can you guys go? And you know, what's the applicability when it comes to you know large-scale projects?
SPEAKER_00Well, we've done a five-story load-bearing building in Vermont years ago. That's probably the highest we've done, the biggest load-bearing wall, but uh we've done huge buildings, five, six, eight stories as a curtain wall, which again, the fact that we're so versatile, if you're gonna build a big high-rise building or a big office building, it would be great to do it as like a curtain wall where you have a steel frame, and then we go on the outside and attach to the steel frame. So, in that regard, the size and height capabilities are um almost affinity. You know, I mean, you could do whatever the structural steel frame can do.
SPEAKER_04Just for the listeners, just to you know simplify it. When we talk load bearing, that means that your panels are the structure, they're self-sufficient to stand alone. So you've gone up five stories with just these panels holding themselves. And when you talk about a curtain wall application, that's actually what we're doing together on the farmers market project is we have a steel structure that holds up the building. And then we're applying these panels to the outside as your thermal envelope. Um, and it's yeah, so we've got we've got a versatile uh approach to two different ways of constructing using your product. That's really great.
SPEAKER_00Now that's that building that we're gonna do with you guys, uh that East Market, that is an incredibly cost-effective way to build a building. You're gonna get a lot of big open space, big high volume ceilings, um, by doing a steel frame and then attaching our panel to it. So it's gonna work great.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's basically a uh a really well-crafted, well-thought out warehouse effectively, you know, and uh yet it's gonna be very, very uh efficient in energy use because uh because of the systems that we're implementing, including your panels here. So that's fantastic. Uh DJ, you were gonna say something. Sorry there.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no problem. Um, what I was gonna say is finishes inside and outside can be whatever you want. So interior, it's simple drywall, um, hanging of drywall, drywall finishing on the inside. And then on the exterior, whatever finish you want can go on the exterior of the building. There's nothing special about how we finish either the inside or the outside. And to your point, one of the beauties of the EPS is that it does melt at high temperatures, which allows us to put wire chases into the wall very, very simply with a hot, what we call a hot knife. So we're able to put in boxes, wire chases, things of that nature. Because the foam does melt at a very high temperature. We put that's what we use the tool we use to tie in the electrical connections and boxes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a good point. Because uh on the job side, I met with my electrician and he looked at those panels and he goes, Cool, well, this is gonna be a nightmare for wiring it because we're gonna have to fur out the entire building and make electrical chases and runs. And I pull out the hot knife, cut an area for an outlet box, and he was like, Oh, so I just notch in wherever I want wires, and I was like, Yep, here's a tool to do it. And he was like, Oh, this is gonna be a piece of cake. He lowered his price for me.
SPEAKER_03That's fantastic. That's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So, Leslie, I know you wanted to talk a little bit about Guardian's process because we I know you guys, Steve's the engineer, the go-to guy to help us solve all these complex issues. But in terms of the process, like you don't necessarily design the building. So, how do you find these projects? So, Leslie, maybe you want to elaborate there.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, it's it's been fantastic, actually. Um, and I know we're setting you up because we we we we know the answer, but you know, we had we had some people call and say, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm just gonna go directly to them. And when they called you, you guys turned around and you said, Oh no, no, no. We're you you need to have an architectural plan brought to us and then we'll take care of that. Tell us why. I mean, this is maybe not why, because I think it's pretty obvious you're you don't have an architectural firm, you have a product.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03And then what so, so three squared, for example, I and you thank you guys. Uh we we love your product, we love the clients you send us. Um, and more importantly, once Breck and his team, you know, put together this incredible design, um, I would like to hear if there's been any comments like, oh, holy crap, man, this dude is just like making us work for our money here, like because of the creative designs that Breck does. But is there anything that like, what is your process once you get it from us?
SPEAKER_00Well, typically we start with um architectural drawings, and 90% of the time in the past, they have not been designed with our system in mind. Um and we take those and just basically revise them to the wall thickness and start building panels out that way. Um so we use now some of these more complicated houses that there's a structural engineer record on there. So we work together with the architect, the structural engineer record, and our team here. And that's another big advantage of working with Guardian is that we are the really the driving force that coordinates those three entities, along with the client, the homeowner, if if they're involved. Um, but we have to make sure that the architectural plan is exact and precise and works, and the structural is precise and works, because, like Brett's pointed out, when those panels get out there, they have to fit. And they have to fit ahead of time and make sure that we all are on the same page so that when they get out there, it all goes together.
SPEAKER_06And Steve kind of alluded to what the benefit of working with somebody who's you know designed with our product, you know, is has got a great relationship with a structural engineer like Greg and and George. Um, the beauty of that is we don't have to change the wall thicknesses, they send it to us with the right wall thicknesses, they send it to us with the right connections, they send it to us with the white, right load tables and everything else that we need so that we can construct it and design it accordingly. So that's that's an added benefit of working with you guys on all these projects. And and that's why we we uh have been you know, forwarding people to you guys that you can do the front front end and then you know makes our job easier on the back end. So that experience and that expertise kind of transcends um into the product getting out the door quicker, um the customer understanding what they're getting. Um, and we can provide all kinds of uh different solutions in that conversation. The nice thing about Breck and his group, too, is they're open to suggestions. So as we look at plans and we're trying to make things easier for everybody with a little bit of our experience, we look to you guys to make sure that this is in line with the customer wants and it's providing all those benefits that that we've designed uh you you guys have designed the the the uh the unit or the building for.
SPEAKER_03You know, um, and thank you for that and the compliments. I uh we love working with your team. Um, tell us a little bit more about like the like how high, like the capacity. Have you guys done a project that's over three stories high yet?
SPEAKER_06Oh, yes. Many we I'm looking at a picture in our conference room. We did a 66,000 square foot county building in um Harden County, Kentucky. Um, that was 66,000 square feet, and that's a six-story building. So um, yeah, and that we did the curtain walls and some structural walls on that project, but we've done dozens and dozens of those. Um Steven had talked about the veterans home that we did in Vermont, um, hotels that we've done. So, yeah, a wide variety of different applications.
SPEAKER_00We did the panels for the aloft hotel in Buffalo, and that was, I think, like five or six stories. Seven. It was seven stories, yeah, in the middle of winter. In the middle of the winter, and that worked out great for them because once they got our panels up, they were able to wrap the building in a you know weather-resistant barrier wrap, and they worked inside, they had their trades come in and get going right away, and it's three feet of snow outside, and they're uh in a toasty controlled atmosphere.
SPEAKER_04This is I can't wait until I get to that point in the process because uh my theme for 2024 is don't build in the winter, even if you can, just try to plan it out so you design it and engineer it and permanent by the time spring holds. So you could be building in nice sunny weather and not in the rain and snow like I am every day.
SPEAKER_00Now, if you go ahead. I was just gonna say I can relate to you because when I built my house out of I built our house out of the system, uh, that was like 25 years ago, and it was at the time, it was the snowiest winter in Cleveland history. So it was uh I know what it's like to build in the winter, it's tough.
SPEAKER_04Jeez. Now, if you've heard of three squared ink, and if you've been listening to this podcast, you probably understand shipping container buildings at least a little bit. Um, we've done a number of those, uh, and we'll continue to do some of those projects. There's a time and a place for shipping containers. Um, they can make a very efficient building envelope, and sometimes they're more hassle than they're worth uh because they are 10,000-pound objects. And so if you're up a hill or down a ravine or off a dirt road that's winding into the forest, like can be challenging sometimes. We have found out that in working with you guys, that there's uh a real opportunity to actually convert designs from other construction methods, as you mentioned, into your panels. And we found out pretty quickly that the dimensions of shipping containers are pretty darn close to what you guys generate in panels. So we could take any one of our container designs that we've ever worked on, and we could pretty simply modify that plan to support your building technology, which I think is just absolutely fantastic. It's really exciting. Sometimes that's the right answer, other times it's, you know, it's just a decision that the clients make. But that availability is there because you guys oftentimes get plans from other people that, as you mentioned, haven't considered your product and are excited about the opportunities it presents. And I have been blown away by how thorough you guys have been in taking a look at something, giving us some really good advice if there are major deficiencies in the structure that can be uh modified simply uh by using your panels to problem solve some of these things. But just to convert that building in your head, be able to give us a scope and a timeline so quickly, it's it's really been uh been a miracle, which is why we've converted two of our formerly shipping container homes into shield panels. Uh so anything you guys want to add to that comment?
SPEAKER_05Yay.
SPEAKER_06I think uh you put it um put it very well is that um whether it be a a set um layout or design that you have, you know, currently, or it's a new design that you'll be looking for forward to in the future, whatever the application is, you know, we'll make it work. We'll get we'll get our team together with, and in this case, your team, which we work you know very well with, um, and then just come up with a solution and and identify the needs of the customer, design the appropriate building, and then help any way we can. As you know, you know, Brett and I came to the site and and uh kind of helped you guys just get your feet wet. But once you guys got it, you know, we were flying along and putting up a what roughly 1200 square foot first floor.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and that's we're we're all about building relationships here. I mean, it's it's all about who your crew is. It's it's not about what you know, it's about who you know. Anything related to building construction and design industry. And so we're not in the habit of making these relationships to do something once. I would venture to say that I am a guinea pig of sorts because we're using your product in my building, but my building is by no means simple. We have huge windows, big openings, a bridge, mezzanine areas. We've got our core, our proprietary core that houses the kitchen, bathroom, stairs that we had to fit into everything. And you guys worked with us and we problem solved every square inch of that building, and now it's coming to light. But I'm doing this so that I can find the limitations of your product. And I hope you take that in the best possible light. I'm gonna break the system uh so that we know what we didn't know before, and we can pay that forward to every client that we collaborate with in the future uh because we have ways to make it more efficient. Now, I'm on the job site and I've got a running list of lessons learned. Like if I would have laser leveled my slab, I would be way better off right now because it's high in some areas and low in some areas, which is gonna ripple up the building. Uh, and so it's just next time, lessons learned. We're we're gonna pay it forward because we never want to make these mistakes twice.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, sure. Makes sense.
SPEAKER_04Now, the last topic that I want to bring up before we break here, uh, because I we could talk all day about this, and I'm sure we're gonna collaborate with you guys in the future and give updates on these projects that we currently have under construction and in design. Um, but there is a qualification that you guys have met that I think is is fascinating. And it's fascinating because um Passive House Institute of the United States is a very stringent building model where they analyze the efficiencies of the building. And the best way that I could describe this is if you're familiar with uh with the Green Building Institute of the United States, they have their lead qualification for buildings. Have you ever seen a building that's like a lead gold, lead platinum? Um, that delineates that they are a very, very efficient and sustainable structure on the commercial side of things. Passive house is that for homes, for smaller buildings, for apartments and stuff like that. It is really hard to meet those requirements just because it means that you're super insulating the building. You are using triple pane low E glazing because it's the most efficient style of building ever. We actually had the great pleasure of having the president of the Passive House Institute of the United States on this very podcast a couple of months ago. Um, yeah, that was a fantastic conversation. Claire can link us back in the notes to that podcast episode so that we can discuss that at a later time. But you guys actually certified your product as a passive house material. Can you just briefly tell us what that means for you guys as a company, uh what the process was for that, and and what what it means for our listeners?
SPEAKER_00Well, I really appreciate you bringing that up because, of course, obviously here at Guardian, we're pretty proud of that accomplishment. And uh I do have to mention that we are the only, the only certified pacifist certified building system in the United States, and we think probably in the world. So um it was it was very it it took a long time. It took months of work with um um the uh pacify institute, Graham Wright, I think was his name, that uh we worked with, and we had to supply detailed drawings and specifications and connections and how we steal it, and um all the different um specifications of the expanded polystyrene, the steel. It was, I would say, somewhat grueling of a process, uh back and forth between them and us. It went really smoothly. They did a really good job working with us. I think they were as anxious uh for us to get the certification as we were. Um, so it worked out great. Uh it's pretty exciting that um we have that, definitely. Anyone you guys want to add to that?
SPEAKER_01No, that was well done. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh unfortunately for uh for my house at least, we realized this certification just too late uh to make my house a fully passive house certified. And just to give you guys perspective, uh there are no passive houses in the city of Detroit, Michigan. Um, it's never been done. So we would have been the first. And the only thing that we were deficient on was our doors and windows. We had already ordered our doors and windows by the time that we started working with you guys and switched the building envelope. Um, I would have had to, you know, get really, really nice windows, but they were already built and delivered to us at the job site uh prior to that moment. Otherwise, this could have been the first passive house in the city of Detroit. But now we know, and again, paying those lessons forward to future collaborations. The next house that we do up here, uh, which there will be many, we've got lots of people stopping on the street and bugging us during construction to ask us plenty of questions. Uh but the second house very much could be a passive house. And that is really, really exciting for us, not only for just the the certification uh and being able to tout that, but because of the the lifetime efficiencies that that structure is going to bear as a result. I mean, you're talking lifetime savings that will pay for any upgrades that you add to this building. Um, you mentioned earlier in this call that we uh we we went with a very uh very high-end heating and cooling system for my house, and that's true, but we ran the numbers and that system pays for itself in energy savings in the first four years, which is a no-break. Uh, it's all I have to do is live in this house for four years, and I'm I'm giving myself money back, and that's just absolutely massive. So, uh anything else that you guys would like to bring up in in conclusion here, uh is the intro to the general public of Guardian Structural Technologies and their relationship with Three Squared Inc.
SPEAKER_00No, I think uh you covered it well. I got one more thing is when you talk about um the equipment they use and the insulation, uh not only is there a cost savings, but there's a comfort level of your house that you're gonna live in the rest of your life where you know it's winter here, it's 20 degrees outside. I'm typically in shorts and a t-shirt in my house, you know, and I got the thermostat set at uh, I don't know, 70 or whatever. And you know, my wife chilly said, Turn a thermostat up. I don't care because you know there's no cold, there's no cold spots in the house, there's no drafty areas, it's just incredibly comfortable, and that's a benefit when you see and you move in. Uh, that's just gonna make you feel so good when you're uh living in your house.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. That's that heated slab helps as well. Your feet will always be toasty. All right. Well, thanks again, you guys, for joining us. Uh thanks, DJ, Brett, Steve, uh, for coming on the call today. Claire, take us home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, guys, so much. This has been great. And I would love to guide everyone down to the show notes. We've got a link where we have an official show notes page on our website. You're welcome to go and check out some more notes with the timestamps. We've got links to our Instagram. If you want to go see the framing day footage and go see what these panels look like in that video. And we've also got guardianstructural.com if you want to go learn more about these panels and these really cool technologies. And if you've got questions, if you're wanting to incorporate these into your own project, go ahead and use the contact form down below because we're really excited about the potential and all of the opportunities that these are going to bring for people and for our future clients. So thank you guys. We'll catch you on the next episode. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you found it so valuable, you want to connect with us one-on-one, click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started. And to get notified on the next episode here on Innovative Real Estate. Go ahead and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes so you never miss a beat. Get out there, put today's advice into action, and we will see you in the next episode.