Revitalizing Detroit: A Developer’s Guide

If you've been following along for a while then you know that we call Detroit home - a wonderfully city that has had it's fair share of challenging history, and vibrant culture. 

Now the city that we love is having it's renaissance - posing as an ideal landscape for growth and development.

In this episode Leslie shares why she chose Detroit as the home for her business, and how forming a great relationship with the community and planning department was her key to success. 

We also talk about how the city’s landscape transformed dramatically in 2010, creating new avenues for real estate, the current and future opportunities in Detroit, and why it's important to work with local firms if you are an out of town developer. 

Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn: 

• A brief dive into Detroit's history and current resurgence. 
• The importance of a city's master plan. 
• Community is everything to getting developments approved. 
• What Detroit offers that other cities don't.
• Why the midwest is such a unique place to build.
• 
  

Link to full show notes

Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new project releases, trainings, and more. 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts, Leslie Horns, Brett Crandall, and Claire O'Villa. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Welcome back to another episode of Innovative Real Estate with your host, 3Squared Inc. Today, we're here to talk about our hometown, our lovely city of Detroit, Michigan, known internationally, uh infamously at times, um, and famously at other times. We brought you the motor city music. We brought you the motor city of automobiles, and a lot of history is tied up here. So, today for our project highlights of the week, I'd like to just briefly talk about everything that's happening in Detroit, none of which we're specifically involved with, but we are definitely a part of everything that's happening in Detroit among some really, really exciting developments. Um, the Hudson's site. Hudson's was uh was a famous store that the building sat vacant for years and they tore it down, and now it's going to be one of the tallest buildings in all of Michigan and GM's headquarters. We also have the Gordy Howe International Bridge, the brand new international crossing between the U.S. and Canada, which is nearing completion. They just connected the two sections of the bridge. We also have the Shepherd Development, which is a huge art-based development on the east side of the city. We have Michigan Central Station that at the time of construction was the largest Michigan Central Station. It was the largest train station on earth and now has been renovated as uh Ford's headquarters of innovation. And we just got an announcement that we're building a brand new soccer stadium for our DCFC club team who continue to not be able to lose, which is very exciting. So we start this conversation off by just saying there's so, so many things that are happening in Detroit right now. And we're riding this incredible wave of opportunity here as we see this renaissance, this resurgence of this very important city. So I'd like to hand it over to Leslie Horne, our CEO, who decided that she was going to start her company here, based in Detroit. And I'd like to know a little bit about that story and why you ended up choosing Detroit, or if Detroit chose you.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Gosh, Breck, thank you so much. And what really is exciting about that preamble and all the innovation that's going on here is that it's all within, I think the bridge is the farthest away from here, at maybe two miles away. Other than that, everything's within a one mile walking distance. Michigan Central, 2,112 steps away from here. It's really an amazing time. But you know, in 2004, I started doing research in real estate, had never been involved in any type of real estate, bought a house here or there, a condo here or there, and I wanted to do a career change. Anyone who knows me, once I set my mind to do something, I'm going to do it. And I started researching and researching. I found a class, I found a course, and it really resonated with me. And uh what it required me to do was to hop on a plane and to fly out to Detroit, Michigan. And one of the reasons they were hosting this particular class in Detroit was because of what all of the anchor signs were and the items that were happening back then, the city planning for the Super Bowl in 2006, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's all these new things. The new, you know, the mayor Kwame Kilpatrick is making deals and real estate is just increasing. So I heard all those keywords, but then I went to this course, I went to this class, and then on top of that, just started really doing deep dives. My initial, I guess, introduction to real estate was to rehab houses. So in 2005, uh in 2004, let me just back up. I started rehabbing houses, but I was doing it from my cell phone, my couch and my checkbook, right? From San Diego. Um, unfortunately, in 2005, my brother was a business partner. That wasn't the unfortunate part. But the unfortunate part is every time we kept sending money, people would say, Oh yeah, it's almost done, it's almost done, and you know, but we need a few more, you know, we need more money. Well, made a decision to fly out here one day without telling my guys and and my team that I was flying out here. So I sat in front of the house that was being rehabbed. Nobody was there. So I called the person, said, Hey, I'm um, can you just give me an update on the status of the house? She says, Well, you wouldn't believe it, but the team is out there today. I think they're working on the roof, and man, they've made so much progress. And I'm like, Well, this is so super interesting because I'm sitting right in front of the house and there's not a soul here, and it doesn't look like anything's really been done. Moral of the story, from that moment on, I decided to never let that situation happen. My brother said, Sister, I think it's time that you move out to Detroit to fix our problems. I was the single one at the time, so I did. And that was in 2005. Got into a rhythm. I thought I would be here for about a year. Um, but I got into a rhythm and got a good team. One of the things I learned in my early development, even just with rehabbing, and I don't mean just like the word just, I don't want to demean that. Rehab is so much different than ground up construction and other development. But the things I learned in my education and in my due diligence and research, and a lot of it was self-taught. But one of the things that was so key is how willing the planning department is excited to share what's going on with their cities. And if you are a developer or somebody wanting to build, one of the first things anybody should do is to make a phone call to your city's planning department, not the building department, the planning department. Every city has a master plan. And one of the things we should do as developers or rehabbers or anything is to really understand what's going on in the city. Where are the anchors? Where do they want to build? What are their next steps? What communities are they really focusing on? Are there any new major like shopping malls or let's just get real, are there any grocery stores that are going to be going in? So all those little factors, which really have a big play. Because what we've seen time and time again in Detroit, and I hear it from people calling to say, hey, we want to develop a, you know, you'll get two blocks. Well, because they're so cheap, right? You can get them through the land bank. The challenge with that is, you know, Detroit has 132 square miles of landmass that used to house 2.2 million people back in the 40s, 50s, until in the early 60s when the race riots and uh all of the major car dealers started like escaping and and and leaving, which compounded a mass exodus of residents. And for the first time in what 50, 60 years, 60 years now, it's the first time that Detroit is having more people arrive in the city and staying in the city than leaving the city. So now there's like 600 plus thousand people where it used to be 2.2 million. So you can see the disparity and and just the land mass that's vacant. So I say that because as a developer, hey, you should know every in and out of your city and what they're focusing on. And what was exciting about Detroit until you know, just the whole real estate market tanked. And that wasn't just isolated in Detroit. Detroit was hit hard 2007, eight, and nine. But what was happening in Detroit, and I'm I'll I'll stop talking about Detroit. Well, I won't stop talking about them, but um, I'll shift the I'll shift the focus here, but in a moment. But in 2010, there were two really great things that happened to this great, amazing city. Number one, the current mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, was finally held accountable for his racketeering. FBA came in, totally rated, got a brand new mayor. Mayor Bing came in, amazing. He had one job and one job only, which is to really stabilize the city and find out really the mess we were in as a city, financially, etc. He did a fantastic job. Now, the second wonderful thing that happened in 2010 was Dan Gilbert from Quick and Loans. He owns the Cleveland Cavaliers and he grew up in Detroit. He came back, he came back home and started working with the new uh leadership and moved Quick and Loans, added I think 6,000 new employees down into the center of downtown Detroit. 6,000 employees. That was in 2010. 14 years later, they've got close to 30,000 employees, and we call it Gilbertville with such great love and admiration because he has single-handedly, as a firm, Bedrock, along with all of their other subsidiaries, they've purchased parking structures, they've purchased old buildings, and they've purchased hotels and lots of blocks in the downtown area. 14 years ago, you cannot touch anything today in the downtown area. I mean, everybody sees the massive growth. And I say that example to share with everybody about what's happening over at Michigan Central. It is the same thing. Ford is coming in along with Google and all the mobility partners. They're also running out of space right now in the buildings that they've just developed, but they're bringing 5,000 new employees. So you can kind of see what's happening in a parallel that's happening here from Corktown to downtown, which I'm looking at downtown out the window here. It's literally 1.3 mile walk from this building. Now, one important factor before I move forward, one of the great things, and I think it was head on, it was headed on by the Kreske Foundation back in 2010. They actually had what they called the 7.2 mile report. If any developer was interested in doing anything during that time frame, and you can still see it today, you can Google it and get a copy of it. The Detroit leadership had some very smart, the planning department did some things very smart. They decided they were going to focus on a 7.2 mile radius that started at the GM building. It started over at Eastern Market on the east side, Corktown on the west side, and then up to the Fisher Building on the north side. And they focused all of their development like energies on the 7.2 mile area. And what they did is they spurred growth. They did it super methodical. They brought in density. And you know, this is where Wayne State is, you know, great programs uh where they've attracted some wonderful internships for their medical practices. You know, Detroit is amazing in their planning process. Now, in addition to that 7.2 mile report, they've actually then, if you remember, I think it was in 2014 or 15, they also started with different pockets. So we're like, okay, once the 7.2 mile, we're going to expand it past the eastern market. So they did very methodical processes in order for developers and you know, like us to really see some focus over by the Jefferson Chalmers area. You could see over by the six mile area. There's just all these areas that they focused on density. How do we increase densities? By doing that, they attracted anchors like Myers to come in. And this is what developers are looking for. How do we increase the anchors in the community so that we know people will move there? Why it's a bad idea if you are a developer to say, I want these like four blocks or these two blocks in this one area because I'm going to get it for a dollar a lot. Don't do it. Make sure that you are in alignment with the city's master planning. And I only say that because I think as it's a responsible um duty to a developer, for a developer, to go into major cities or to go into city, any city, any municipality. And instead of saying this is what they need, the city already knows what they need. They just need partners to help them. And so you'll see that some of the success here, I mean, there's a lot of successful developers. We've got Robertson Brothers, you know, 2014, they won the bid for the old Tiger Stadium rejuvenation, you know, and the RFP. I mean, and they've done some great work, but even here in North Corktown and in Corktown, you're seeing the benefit of working with the city and what the master plan planning is working with. So I think this is a good place to stop and you guys can ask some more questions.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Well, there's a lot of lessons to unpack in the story you just told. Yes. It would be remiss to not uh give acknowledgement. Probably the big three at Detroit, which would be Dan Gilbert, yes, obviously. But also we're pizza city. A number of layers. But like the Illich family, uh, you know, the little Caesars paradise there has uh has also a huge proportion of the development uh downtown. And then the Maroons, which I mean, love or hate any of these characters, but they did spur a lot of development that ended up like saving Detroit. Now, Maddie Maroon, the late Maddie Maroon, owned the Ambassador Bridge. Well, his family still owns it, but that's a private entity. Uh, it's a private international crossing, the last of its kind. I think it's the only one in the United States that's at a privately owned international bridge. But these developers um set the stage, right? They're the anchor items. What Leslie's getting at is knowing the area. So, what she did in order to be a developer that made a difference and had an impact was she relocated and sunkered teeth into the entire situation and learned the characters, learned the game, learned how to talk to people. And if you don't know your area, what are you doing trying to develop it? Honestly, I think that's my takeaway there. Um, not only to understand your audience, but I think it really resonates with me to understand what the larger plan is for an area or for a neighborhood. Now, that's not to say that there aren't constantly pockets of explosion. Um over the city, but I would say, like, first wave of New Detroit, as we call it, um, occurred in our neighborhood. It was Corktown. And there was one business who decided to open up a barbecue restaurant in an otherwise just desolate abandoned area. And if you've been to Detroit, you've probably heard of Slow's barbecue. Um, but Phil Cooley and his development team and the family behind it put forth a restaurant that spurred a second restaurant and a third and then a bar and then a coffee shop, and then it sprawled, and now it's one of the most vibrant areas of our entire city because somebody took a chance, but that person took a calculated chance. There there was risk involved, sure, obviously, especially in restaurant touring, but but he knew his audience and he also understood the grand plan of things and then worked with the city very closely in order to start that. Um, we're working on a very exciting project on the east side of Detroit right now. It's a non-for-profit office and farmers market with a bunch of shops for businesses that are getting their footing, getting their ground, and getting started, and then are blossoming into like full-blown businesses that will then relocate and actually start up. And we had our groundbreaking for that uh yesterday. Actually, we got to meet the mayor face to face and we got to see the city council members who uh who helped this happen. But my real takeaway from that groundbreaking and from that event for the East Warren Farmers Market development was that that's a grassroots project. Yeah, it came directly from the people who live in that neighborhood working with the city officials to spur that development forward. And it didn't start with this grand scheme, it started with a single renovation project and a pop-up farmers market that has existed for the last five years that is now spurring on larger developments. And some of these businesses that started with a pop-up and a tent in a parking lot are now renovating and occupying boarded up storefronts that have been there since the 60s. So knowing your audience, knowing the master plan are two huge keys to being a developer. Look, Leslie, how many phone calls have we taken with cold call developers who are like, Detroit's a wild west? We got this opportunity, this land's so cheap, I can't understand how cheap it is. And I'm like, do you know the like people's owned grocery store that just opened up next door? And they're like, never heard of it. And I'm like, you are doing your job wrong. Yes, don't even understand the context of what you're looking at. And they're like, we're gonna put in a swimming pool on the roof deck. I'm like, what are you doing? Why? Like, read the room, read your audience. Like, you do some research, you have not spent any time in Detroit, you've not learned the people, you don't know what their needs are, and you don't know what the situation is that's driving them to make the decisions that they're making. And in that instance, you're not being a good developer, but there is massive opportunity here in Detroit. It's unlike any other city on earth. I have tried to leave and it pulls me back every single time because there's opportunity here that you can't get elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

There's land here that you can't get elsewhere, but you're not just gonna get it to make a buck. If that's why you're developing, then you're in it for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Yeah. It's interesting, Brett, because you're right. That I mean, we you and I have taken many and several calls in people who are, you know, they see the opportunity, but they don't understand the community. And, you know, we've seen projects get super excited, they invest a lot of money, and then all of a sudden they disappear. And part of it is because I think of the lack of community support. Uh, you you've like you said, you have to know your audience, you have to know what the community wants and needs. You know, coming into Detroit in 2005, I gotta tell you, I've never seen a city more resilient and more kind. And all of you know, as a as a single white female that that decided to live in Detroit, my family was worried about my health and safety and welfare. And and I'm like, oh, you guys, you guys just haven't been here. You have got to come to this city. Of course, there are bad areas, right? Like any other city. Like any other city. I mean, I can so, but I and you just have to be smart. But I gotta tell you, one little awesome story, and this is on Mount Elliott and Werner. I had to go to the gas station and I was lost. This is, you know, I I I just I had the address, but I couldn't find the right street. Anyway, I was at the gas station, and this this older gentleman is looking at me because I'm trying to like get a map and trying to look at my map and find out exactly where it's at. And he goes, he goes, Well, well, sis, it looks like you're lost. I said, Well, it's true. I am so lost. He must have been in his 70s. He goes, Do you mind if I come over and help you? And I'm like, Oh my god, this would be amazing, right? So he comes over and he goes, Where are you trying to go? And I said, Oh, this is the address. I showed him the address. He goes, I know why you're lost. Once you finish up with your gas, I want you to hop in your car and then I'm just gonna lead you over there. You just follow me, and then I'm gonna drive on. I'm not gonna stop or anything. I don't want you to feel weird. I'm just gonna stop it. Yeah, I'm gonna take you to that location. And that is the epitome of Detroiters. They want to help. You know, this city really is amazing. And if all my family and all my friends and Audrey would move here to Detroit, you know what? I'd be the happiest woman on this. Planet. I love this city. I love the heart of this city. And I get so excited because I mean, this, I mean, even as an attestament to what's been happening since June 6th when Michigan Central opened, there's just a different like everyone's chests are like out and their shoulders are back. Everyone's proud of what's happening. And I'm really happy that we're a part of it. And it's the only reason why I believe because of our community involvement with Cochrane Commons, we can talk about that project and the work, the detailed work we've done as developers, because we know our city. My goodness, I'm proud that we're, I mean, this project will happen. I mean, everybody just mark the words here. This project will happen. And so more, more or less, I I just am excited to be here. I we welcome other developers and hey, three squared, uh, we're your team. I mean, we can help, I mean, we we support developers. This is what we do. If you're out of state, out of country, hey, we're happy to help support you.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So, Leslie, I definitely want to chime in for a second here because with Kalkin Commons, a huge part of that project was the community engagement portion. Yes. Developments in the city require this. And so not only is it a very unique community in Detroit, it's a very passionate community. It is really valuable feedback, and people are going to participate and they're going to chirp and say what they want to see. And so not only are you working with the community on your development, but you're also working with the planning and building department that we actually have a really uniquely beneficial and good relationship with. So not only do we have support from the community, we also have support from the planning department that's going to help us build and make this development a reality. And I think that those connections in being a developer are essential. So not only are you knowing and understanding the community and what they want to see and how they'll use it, you're being respectful of the existing context and bringing people in that are not just going to come in and then leave. They're going to stay there, they're going to live there, they're going to contribute to the economy. They're also being respectful of the planning department that wants to see certain things within the city. So let's also talk really quickly about how mind-blown we were when we went in to have this PPR review, preliminary plan review with the city. And they actually requested, like, can you make it bigger? Like, why have we ever seen that happen before? That was such an exciting moment for us because it was like, wow, the city really backs this. It's uniquely situated right up against the freeway. So they gave us an instruction manual, essentially, that goes along with their city plan and what they want to see in the future of Detroit. We are in a very key location, very close to the Michigan Central Station. So it was like it was just a lot of things that came into play to make this really beautiful development. And I think it's an exciting space that's gonna bring people in that are gonna stay and contribute to Detroit.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

You know, just to piggyback on that, with because actually the city has been working on the Corktown framework plan. And it and we couldn't have gone to them at a better time. And honestly, Breck, I think I'm gonna let you comment more on this because I think with your leadership, Breck, and your team's skill sets, I think you hit it out of the park. You want to talk a little bit about what that process, the PPR, the first conversation and then the second, actually official process. I mean, and this is this when you you have to have the city's blessings, folks. So why not get on get them on board earlier than later? That's that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Well, I think a lot of people view the city as an enemy, but why would any city be an enemy of its own people? There are a lot of quasi-governmental institutions, there is some corruption at layers, but at the end of the day, like the city is here for the people, like they have to respond to the people and represent them. The process of working with the city is understanding what their what their goals and intentions are. It's a whole lot more smiling and nodding politely and hearing them out than it is like fighting for what you want to get. And I see this every week. I mean, I'm down at one woodward attending meetings, be it for a historical district hearing or for a city proposal hearing. And a lot of those are happening on Zoom now, post-pandemic. But you'll just get these developers or these individuals who are just like, you need me more than I need you, so it's my way or the highway, and they get chewed up and spit out on the spot. And you just learn that lesson very quickly. Um, it's not about you, uh, it's about the urban fabric, it's about the people who will ultimately occupy these buildings. I know you might care about what's the cost per square foot, but I dare you to ask yourself, what is the quality of life in your building when you're done? And if you cut all those corners and made a development to turn a buck, are you proud of yourself for that? Can you sleep at night? Did you actually help the city, or are you just trying to take advantage of it? And we have seen lots of examples of people taking advantage of the city of Detroit's position and getting away with murder, proverbially. Um, but that's not the city's ultimate goal nor their intention. Um, it means a lot when you've got hometown heroes working on projects, grassroots developments, like having a developer that's doing something for the greater good based on their location and their background and their history there is one layer. But if you're a developer working in a town that you don't live in, having a team from that town speaks volumes. Does. So hiring a local civil engineer, hiring a local architect, hiring local builders, contractors, like there's a lot of opportunities to tap into the resources that every city has to offer. This isn't unique to Detroit, um, but I think it's a valuable lesson that we could take forward. Now I do want to talk, just zoom out a little bit and talk about like, yeah, Detroit, like globally famous. I can travel internationally and say I'm from Michigan and no one has any idea what I'm saying. But if you say Detroit, they're like Eminem, Kid Rock, Motor City. I'm like, yep, yeah, that's the one. Uh but if you zoom out to like the greater area, we're in the Midwest. Midwest is a little quirky to work in as an architecture firm. I guess I just want to like set the stage. I'm gonna allow Jill to talk about maybe some of like the building intricacies, but just like we are made up of post-industrial towns where there was a boom, there was huge developments, and then a lot of things kind of fell apart. And we've gone through recession after recession. We had obviously the riots that occurred. Um, but in the in the general area, we do have a unique instance of infill lots. Houses that used to be there that are no longer there because people left this area and pursued work out west or elsewhere. And so we talk a lot about like infill, but like our infill is different than like Californian or Florida infill, where it's like, okay, we're gonna demolish this house in order to put a new house, or we're going to add a smaller house behind our existing house, or we're gonna add additional buildings, so on. Like here, it's like missing teeth and a smile. You just like you'll have a building, a building, and then 10 lots of nothing, and then one standing building. It's it they all used to be buildings. Every single street here used to have homes, used to have commercial structures on them, and they don't anymore. And so infill lots are one of those unique things that you notice in the Midwest under the Rust Belt that you won't see necessarily everywhere else in America. Now, there's still a lot of land to be developed, but here, when I talk about infill lots, the difference is there's infrastructure beneath the ground. Like you have water and sewer. You're not starting with this vacant parcel that you're going to develop in the future and add that infrastructure. Like you have these utilities available to you that you could tap into, and you're just replacing a building, oftentimes digging out a building that's already there and just knocked down and pushed under the ground. But you're putting a new building where a building once was. And that's unique to the Midwest. But Jill, you want to talk a little bit about our climate and some of the quirkiness of just being a Midwest firm?

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah, so we definitely need to respect our installation values, um, getting proper sunlight into homes and just making it a comfortable space, as Bre had mentioned, for people that are going to stay in this house. Like, what is the quality of life of the end user going to be in this new home where an existing home once was? So in Detroit, not even in just Detroit, but in the Midwest, people like their basements, they like their storage space within their homes. But in Detroit, Breck, something you had mentioned is typically there's a house that was demolished and just the land was filled in. Whether or not that home was demolished correctly probably was not. You don't know if maybe there was a gas station on that lot. So there might be some chemicals under the land. So typically, we don't recommend building a basement. You're subjected to flooding. I don't think that there's a single basement that we've ever heard of that has never flooded before. So typically we're telling our clients, build on a crawl space, or we're working with a really great structural engineer who helped Breck come up with an insulated, uh, a shallow depth footing foundation. And so you're insulating underneath and you don't have to dig as far down, and then you're avoiding all the existing infrastructure that was filled in underneath your home. So those are some of the unique things that we can bring to these infill lots and just respect the existing context and start to bring in homes for the missing middle. So the city has talked to us about the need to provide more housing for its residents. So, Breck and Leslie, I have two questions for you both. Breck, can you talk a little bit about your permitting process with the city and what you discovered with how many permits were issued for single-family residents last year? And then Leslie, can you talk a little bit about Cochrane Commons and the comments that the city gave us when we were talking about what types of housing units we were proposing in that development?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah, well, we've actually mentioned this on the podcast before, but um Detroit in particular and a lot of the Midwest is not building a ton of single-family residences. And if they do, there are those abominable McMansions that are going up in swaths. It's like 3,000, 4,000, 6,000 square feet where you've got like 20 rooms you'll never use in your life. Like that's not what people need right now. Now, when I got my building permit to construct my house in Detroit, that was one of eight building permits issued in the year 2022. Um, that's eight homes in a city of 632,000 people. Like it's just it's kind of absurd to think about. Turn of the century, they were building a thousand houses a month. Like, you know, it's just it's wild to think that that's the scale. But that's not a downplay. They're building tons of developments that just happen to be one and two bedroom apartments. And that is a conversation, honestly, for a whole other podcast because there's a lot of code that's pushing people to develop studio and one-bedroom buildings instead of building family housing. But all of the Midwest and all of the nation, honestly, are in dire need of family housing because great, you can have one-bedroom apartments all over the place. That's great. If you want to come here and work at Quick and Loans for three or four years and run yourself into the ground and make a ton of money, guess what? You're gonna move somewhere else to raise your family because there isn't a housing stock to support you, to have a nuclear family to raise children, a school system to support them. There's a lot of layers to family housing and to have housing security for the people who need it most. And that's why Three Squared is targeting ourselves as a housing innovation firm. Really truly having solutions at that single family residential scale through mid-rise and high-rise apartment solutions, you know, modular solutions that can approach two, three-bedroom apartments, um, all the way down to small micro units and even tiny houses occasionally. But housing innovation is really where we see our future. Um, that's what kind of an architecture firm we are, that's where our passion's at. And Detroit and the Midwest is an incredible place to start.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

It is. And Rick, I'll never forget when the city started talking to us about, you know, Cochrane Commons and even the plan, the director of planning, I mean, who's been in our building two, three times. And then we had some, we've had some very intense conversations with him and his team because they want to see and they also do want to attract families here. They don't just want the studios and one-bedrooms, and you know, they want to see two-bedroom and three-bedroom units as well. I'll never forget when you know you're sitting there, and I just have to I'm just gonna brag about you and your team, you and Jill. Um, because what I noticed in the preliminary plan meetings, you guys have zero freaking ego. And when the city or municipalities, quote, I don't want to say attacking the project, when they're making their comments, not once have I heard you say like get all sassy or try to be so defensive and be combative or pugilistic. I mean, like, you know, like, you know, just ready to fight to for your right on why you did this. What I've noticed is that first and foremost, you guys really design with context. And I think that's a big lesson. Um, I spoke to somebody today who's like, Well, I want this really cool design, and he's showing me the designs. I'm like, but you can't have it here in Corktown. Like, it's not gonna happen. He goes, Well, will they stop me? I said, Yeah, there's a good possibility they will. To that point, in the preliminary plan process, you have to, I mean, they're giving feedback. And I think it's our duty as community members, as developers, to cooperate and collaborate with the city, not dictate. And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes developers come in doing because they feel they know better. And in fact, you know, the city's gone through some planning, you know, directors and over the past several years, and we've got a really good one, man. I tell you, we've had some great ones, and I say, you know, director Bryant has been spot on with his assessments and his and and you know, it all trickles down to his team. As a developer, you need to meet them where they're at. And right now, that's exactly what we did. We went back to the starting, not the starting board, but we took some of our we we basically only had, you know, studios and one bedrooms and two bedrooms. And boy, you and the team have developed um some pretty incredible townhomes. Nonetheless, I think we have to as developers really understand the community. You will always, always get farther along if you have the community support. The last thing if you're going through zoning or any type of variances, um, anything, you know, the community is invited, and the last thing you want, and they will show up, they will come if they disagree with something that you're doing. You're always gonna have one protester here or there, but if you have the support of the community from your due diligence with the community, project's gonna thrive.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

I think it's a great place to wrap up. You you will always have naysayers, you will always have people in the community that don't want development. You will always hear the G-word, which is an unstoppable matter of fact of life. Gentrification is an unstoppable force. If you are not involved, someone else will be, and money moves things from where they are to where they're going. It's just a matter of fact. But the support will always outweigh the naysayers. And as long as you can generate that support and find a community activist or some grassroots organizations, or come from a good place in your heart as a developer, your core values have to align with the project in order to make real progress. And I think that's something that our team has always done well. And Leslie, in your own development strategies, both with and without 3Squared, has has always done well at by building that community support from the get-go.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

It's true. I learned things today that I never knew before, and I hope you did also. Thanks for listening along. And we can't wait until our next episode. This has been Innovative Real Estate with your host, Three Squared Inc. We'll talk to you next time.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you found it so valuable, you want to connect with us one-on-one, click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started. And to get notified on the next episode here on Innovative Real Estate, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes so you never miss a beat. Get out there, put today's advice into action, and we will see you in the next episode.