Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
As specialists in efficient residential and commercial prefabricated design, Leslie Horn, Breck Crandell, and Jill Ramirez of Three Squared, Inc. share their greatest insights, tips, and case studies from their years of experience in the industry. They'll be giving you their best advice through, trainings, guest features, and Q&A segments so you can turn your innovative vision to a reality.
Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
Documenting Detroit with Jason Keen
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In this episode we sit down award winning Detroit native architectural photographer Jason Keen.
Jason's impressive portfolio includes collaborations with some of the most influential architecture and design firms worldwide, including Library Street Collective Ford, Bedrock, Smithgroup, ROSSETTI, inFORM Studio, Quinn Evans, HED, and more!
He has also won numerous awards including the 2023 AIA Michigan, Building Award, AIA Grand Rapids, Residential Architecture Award, AIA Michigan, Community Impact Award, along with many others.
In this episode Jason shares his story of how he got into architectural photography, and how his career led him to being the main photographer for the Michigan Central revitalization project.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn:
- Who is Jason Keen and introduction to his work
- Why is it important to document buildings in a digital world
- What's the difference between a photographer and an architectural photographer
- The process of documenting Michigan Central Station
Link to full show notes
Jason Keen's website and Instagram
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Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts Leslie Horn, Brett Crandall, and Claire Olilla. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed-use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality.
SPEAKER_02Welcome, welcome back to another installation of Innovative Real Estate with your host, Three Squared Inc. Today we are actually bringing in one of the tertiary trades of architecture. Architecture is a it's a it's a big industry that actually incorporates a lot of artistic talent and abilities far outreaching just buildings and construction. And so we're starting a series of actually talking to uh some of those individuals who practice um basically in tandem with architecture. And so today we have a guest on Jason Keene, who you might have heard the name if you've been anywhere near Michigan or anywhere near awards ceremonies uh during the award season in architecture, because he is a very well decorated and very talented architectural photographer joining us today. So we're gonna kick things off with uh, as usual, our highlight of the week in project form. And I'm actually gonna turn it over to Jason to say hello and introduce one of the biggest projects. We've covered it here on our podcast. Uh, it is it's a big deal for the city of Detroit, and that is Ford's purchase of the Michigan Central Station. That is the former train station that connected Detroit to the rest of the world. And uh it's gone through a resurgence, an absolute ground-up renovation that is just breathtaking. And uh Jason just so happened to be involved in this project, and we'd love to hear more about it. So, Jason, if you would be so kind as to say hello to our audience and let's dive in, starting with the Michigan Central Station.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, hi everyone. My name is Jason Keene, and uh as mentioned, I'm an architectural photographer here in Michigan and uh been at uh at it for about a decade plus. So uh I'm losing the days and years, but uh it's been a while, even though some days I still feel like a scrappy startup, but um just doing the diligent work of of documenting projects and and you know trying to do it well. And uh yeah, no, I had the pleasure of photographing Michigan Central Station and it's a project that you can never say enough about. I mean, there's just so much incredible about it, but um, you know, I started on very early in the process working for Chrisman and Brinker. We had this plan to do a uh sort of documentation process from beginning to end and then make a book out of it. Um, and it snowballed, you know, that the book sounds like it's gonna be in print later this year and will be available in different um arenas. That's not um entirely confirmed, but um that seems to be the direction it's heading. And um, you know, I got the pleasure to photograph it for Ford. Um, and it's just been it's been a wild ride, but it's a very consequential project and uh very emotional. You know, I think that project of of all of them in in Detroit, uh or you know, there's just uh, you know, there's an immense amount of talent and great projects being done, but that one symbolizes so much about the identity of people from Detroit in in Michigan. Um, you know, we looked at it for so long and seen um how far things have fallen, and now we have a very different experience when we look at it, and um, that's pretty incredible. So to have the responsibility of um amplifying, you know, his presence and putting it on the world has just been a distinct honor.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. You know, Jason, you mentioned the word emotion, and uh, I will attest to that. Many of my friends, even you know, and dear friends who as children went into the train station, and now 30, 40, 60 years later, I'm not exaggerating, um, what you've been able to do in the process, because those people who have not gone through the through the tour right now, there is a uh just a whole process in which, and and I know you were a very key element, through your lens, literally, we've got to see the rehab and how it's transformed over the last few years. And it is quite emotional, and it's quite emotional, I think, for nostalgic purposes, but also for hopeful. Like just the grand hope of, oh my gosh, look what happened to this train station that was so beloved and almost literally got tossed. I mean, just like wrapped up tossed in in rightfully so many years should have been. But through I think your lens and through what you've been able to capture, and what I'm so excited to see this book, I think it'll really showcase the beauty of it uh and really its capacity and what it's doing to change this community. And so it just starts from just that whole visual piece, and I I'm excited for it and congratulations. I I don't think they could have picked a better artist and a better photographer to champion this story. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I surely appreciate that, and um thank you. You know, I I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about Midwesterners. Um you know what our place in the world is, we're very diligent hard workers. We love our community, we've chosen to stay, and um having been involved in this project, which represents um all that hard work and sort of a climax and conclusion in some respects and setting the stage for a new chapter, I think it's just just uh incredible, but it's been a journey. And um I I think it's it's a way if people can see that we are truly a world-class uh environment and city. You know, we have these amazing things, pieces of architecture. We've been good stewards of them, um, and we'll continue to put sort of push the envelope in different directions. Um, but just explaining to folks, you know, in the process, um like with the book depository, which I photographed as well, explaining to PR firms, like they would, you know, on the onboarding discovery phase, we're talking about how are we going to document this? Um and I could be like, Yeah, you know, I we used to ice skate in that building 10 years ago. And they're like, oh, you have to be a skating rink. And I was like, no, it was just abandoned. And but you know, tell those stories and for them to understand, we've gone from this to this. Um, and then I think it really helps them to understand us better. You know, there's just the experience is just so vast and unique here. And um, you know, bringing that context to the project for everyone, the architects, the trades, the photographers, we all have this relationship with this um this piece of architecture.
SPEAKER_01That's very well said. Very, very well said.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Jason, I do have a question for you about this project because before you started this podcast, you were sharing with us that you've lived in and around the city of Detroit in several different areas. And so, with your intimate experience with this project, I'm curious on what your views are from the late 80s when this building closed down, it fell into such disrepair that it was closed. And people say that it's a reflection of the downfall of Detroit. And now that with the grand reopening, people are saying the city is back, the city has made this grand comeback. Versus some people say the city never left. And based on what you had just said, these Midwesterners have this dedication to keeping things rolling. You use a building as an ice rink when it's in disrepair. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Wow, that's a very complicated thing to unpack. Uh, it is true that all these things have been running in parallel. You know, there is a uh certain amount of restoration research that's happening alongside these communities that have uh long been here and people that have just uh lived lives. And uh I think it's important to always acknowledge that. But, you know, it seems to me that idea of the blank canvas has really run out uh, you know, it's not um quite in vogue anymore to speak about Detroit that way, which is um entirely appropriate. Um so I think that we should just acknowledge, we should constantly be talking about the the people who have been here, what they've done, um, that they've never left. And um, you know, we we are here to serve them um and and and sort of um restore things to how they once were. You know, there's certain things that are quite obvious that the city had various uh infrastructural um kinds of infrastructural disrepair, and you know, this this is something that we can do for them.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, and I just I'll wrap up that piece of it because really what you've been able to bring out and what I feel Michigan Central has really done is really showcase the spirit of Detroit and this community of just exactly what you said. It's these people have never left, but it's now there's something to show for it. Uh in addition to you know, I I look back at 2010 when you know Gilbert came into town, Dan Gilbert, and there was huge milestones there. Huge milestones with Quicken Loans moving in and all the new, you know, 7.2 mile reports and all like how the city planning department has really built up the city of Detroit. However, you can't take a photograph of that. You can't like visually you there's reports, people have to read it, etc. But I think that's the beauty about this iconic project and iconic building that we're now able just to attach emotion and hard work and proud, pridefulness for it. It's exciting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, truly it is. And and I think, you know, in a lot of ways, my role in the the project of photographer is that no, you not every single person around the world can experience this piece of architecture firsthand. I mean, that's the the power of photography and you know, the sort of democratic medium of of you know visual imagery in the internet. Um, you know, and it's it's just it puts it out into the world. Um, you can have a relationship with this architecture without having been to it. Maybe it inspires you to come to Detroit. But uh, I'm the power of photography.
SPEAKER_02Great. I think that's a great lead-in to now asking, like, how'd you get into this? Like, um, you know, anybody who picks up a camera is obviously going to be first attracted to nature and then their built-in environment. So uh there's nothing new about taking photographs of buildings. Um, they kind of beckon for it. That's that's a piece of the art, but it's also common knowledge. There's the old adage that like architecture without photography is like no architecture at all, right? Because we don't have the opportunity to share it or to capture those moments. Um, architectural photography, when we'll get into it, is it it is an art, there's no science to it. It's really capturing the essence of the building and making that feel alive for the people that developed that. And that's not just like the name, everybody has a name, a starchitect associated with the project. But we talk about like Michigan Central Station, that was a product of hundreds, thousands of individuals all collaborating. Like everybody owns a piece of that, and it means so much for the city. So, did you get into architectural photography or did you get into photography and then find yourself honing in on this particular medium?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, that's a great question. It's something I've been I've thought a lot about over the years trying to diagnose um how I, you know, landed here. I I think, you know, my interest is in the visual arts primarily. I went to art school. Um, I started as a photographer. And I come from a very blue-collar background. Uh, my father worked in a cement factory, my grandfather worked in a cement factory, my great grandfather worked in a cement and all in the same factory. Um, it was Portland Cement, and then it was a Lafarge factory up in Alpina, Michigan, up north where I'm from. So I spent a lot of time at the factory uh and working there before I was a photographer. I was a laborer at a cement plant, just watching how cement was made and just always thinking about where it was going, what it was building. Um I was always fascinated by that. And I just had a family history. We've always been involved in that trade. And um, I think a lot of it starts there and just my interest in the visual arts, but also being an urbanist and living in a city, um, and just seeing this incredible wealth of mid-century, or I'm sorry, uh turn of the century architecture in Detroit. Um, you know, we a lot of us started out early as Urbacks and what have you, and that that had some influence. Uh, so for me, just it primarily I come as at it from a visual artist, but the the discipline of being architectural photographer, um, that really was something I was introduced to after I graduated from CCS. I worked with an architectural photographer and uh learned a lot of the skills. And I was just introduced to the whole world of you know, Hedrick Blessing at Chicago, which was an architecture firm, photography firm rather that was around for a hundred years, um, or Esto out on the East Coast, architecture photography firm that was started by Ezra Stoller and Julia Shulman and all that. And just DJ had been doing it for, you know, sometimes 80 years, and um, there's a variety of uh photographers involved, and they photographed so many incredible projects. And um, you know, I had the pleasure of meeting a lot of those photographers and just learning these incredible stories. And um, you know, I think I just got immersed in that world. I learned the skills, and I was really intrigued about how photography can be the conclusion of a creative process. Um, it can be a collaboration with uh architect who is uh an artist. You know, they take they're working um, you know, with sort of architecture as sculpture, they're creating something three-dimensional that's living, it's out in the world. And then a photographer also has their own interpretive creative process that's um trying to distill that into something two-dimensional that acknowledges all the intentions of the architect, um, you know, how they've responded to the site, the materials they've chosen, the community it's in, and who they're trying to serve, just to try to reflect that. I think it's just a deeply um creative process in in the deeply collaborative process and one that can really um help amplify the sort of intent of a piece of architecture and what it can do for a community. So that's kind of how I started and sort of why I continue to do it.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Well, it feeds your soul, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's it's absolutely um just amazing to see how people um build communities around these projects um or communities that have existed and have amazing new amenities available to them. And um, you know, I think it really says a lot about community building and the role of the architect in that we're all part of this vast sort of ecosystem together. We're responding to each other, collaborating with each other, even just in the act of daily life. I think that's a form of collaboration and um trying to capture some glimmer of that in the process is kind of what I'm after.
SPEAKER_02So I kind of want to take a look inside your head a little bit. Like you get hired for a project, you get all your gear together, you plan this out, you show up. How do you know what to look for? Like, what does a creative process look for you as you're going through a photo shoot over the course of a half day, a full day, or many days, depending on the scale of the project? Like, what is your eye drawn to? Is it those detail moments? Is it the interaction with the public, with the private? Is it the overall building, or is it kind of chunks of both? And then it's an editing process. I'd just like to know a little bit more about how you approach a project that you're coming into for the first time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, most projects start with the discovery phase. There's a call, we talk about it. You know, what is the intent of this project? Um, what design language are you using? Um, what's the philosophy behind this? Um, and you internalize it a little bit when you're there. When you're on site, it's just responsive. You're just the light is changing. Um, maybe there's something interesting happened that you couldn't have never have um thought about or planned for. Some, you know, you're photographing a building, there's just some amazing event happening around it, and it really transforms how you think about the architecture. Um, it is it all exists to, you know, be um to in relationship with what's happening around it. And if you can sort of show that context in your imagery, I think it just enhances it. Um because it's just a very uh unique process, you know. So when you're on site, you just the natural light is a huge component, you're just uh chasing in the light all day, but looking for any additional context that just um bring value to understanding the project, sort of community angles, um, you know, site interesting site concerns, just all these things you're you're constantly looking for a way to distill the sort of essence of the project um into sort of a graphic piece of art. So you're constantly in dialogue with the architect, trying to think about what the intent was, but also giving yourself room to sort of interpret the project.
SPEAKER_04Smart. And I also liked how you shared your intimate connection with Portland Cement and how you thought about the process of where it started and where it was going, because it's so synonymous with the process of putting a building together. And so much of your work is focused around this one snapshot of the final moment. So, do you think that your project with Detroit Central Station, with starting earlier on, documenting the kind of downfall of that building until the moment when it was fully restored had its grand opening? Do you think that that allowed you to capture more of the essence of the building than more so than your more typical projects where you're just photographing the final project and not necessarily starting earlier on or at a point of of such in-depth of a relationship as we had with Detroit Central Station?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I if you think of architecture as a subject, like for example, when you're building a friendship with someone, the longer you spend with them, the more you feel at ease. And the more you understand them, the more you might understand sort of their uh interiority, uh, who they truly are. I think the same can be said for a piece of architecture or really anything, establishing a sort of uh long-lasting relationship and understanding can help you to better capture that building. So much like with the portrait subject, if you're taking somebody's portrait, it's only enhanced by just spending time with them, building that rapport. You know, I I think it's very similar with architecture.
SPEAKER_01Jason, do you have any favorite projects aside from Michigan Central? Or actually, even if it is Michigan Central, do you have some favorite projects that you really like even that took you s by surprise?
SPEAKER_00Uh locally?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or or even nationally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh I guess locally. I have been uh pretty floored by the work happening in East Village with um Anthony and JJ Curis and Library Street Collective. I think they really flew under the radar and now they're not so much, but they have a really respect for for the community for Detroit and ensuring that their projects are there as a platform for the community. It's not just architecture. There, you know, there aren't sort of uh grand moments, uh design moments that you might expect on some sort of more commercial pro, you know, they're they're subdued, they respect the the sort of historic integrity of the architecture, they bring some new things to the table, but more than anything, it's just it's a platform for sort of human friction, um, for people to engage each other in the community. And so that has been a source of inspiration for me uh working with them. And just they're just working with an incredible uh pool of talent over there. So yeah, and I just there's so many great uh small firms working here in Detroit that are doing really incredible work. Um, big fan of um decorated what Ish is doing over there, and uh Elise Deshard at N Studios doing some really fantastic stuff and is a very thoughtful person. Um yeah, I there's just so much so much amazing work being done. I really love you know Craig and um Jen at Ply Plus, they're doing some great stuff.
SPEAKER_02So all incredible firms working in tandem around here. Uh, it's it's really an exciting uh place and time to be in Detroit, especially as the only city in the nation that's a UNESCO World Heritage Site as a city designated of design. It's fantastic. All all firms that we uh communicate, and uh we're all in the same network here, so we're very familiar with everybody you're bringing up. Well, so let's let's transition onto that side as we bring up some of these players um that are also in the architectural profession here. Um, we've actually done uh an episode on this podcast of like even explaining why you need an architect, which is just kind of funny to think about. Uh, but you know, a lot of people take a look at any given scenario and say, like, well, I know AutoCAD, I'll just put my own plans together. It's like, okay, there's a lot more to it than that. Um, so let's turn it to you. Uh, architectural photography. Why does the industry need you as a resource? What do you contribute to the professional practice? And what are the benefits of having a dedicated photographer on a project in terms of marketing, expanding your brand? Like, what do you bring to the table and why is your role so necessary to this industry?
SPEAKER_00I think that we're we're living in an increasingly visual world as we sort of move move away from being a literary world, you know, the world of social media, and just uh you know, that's what we're that's how we're experiencing um the the world in architecture is is increasingly through just visual platforms. So I think there's a practical sort of application there that um photography and in and creating video content is important for. But I think the act of doing photography and doing and working with a photographer that has an eye you respect, an approach you respect is is really can be a conclusion to a process for the architect. You know, there's there's so many different um quotes out there about how like the building isn't finished until the photographer is. And I think there's some truth to that, you know, because you have those pictures as references, as sort of documents of posterity forever. You know, the building may change hands, it might transform, it may not exist in the future or all these things could happen to it, but those photographs kind of live on forever. And making sure they are if you're the architect or making sure they have an aesthetic and point of view that you that resonates with you, I think is extremely important. And you know frankly there's other practical applications, award submissions I mean like the better your pictures are for that, the better chances you often have at uh you know winning the award or the more sensitive the images are. Perhaps it's not just about aesthetics, but is there a context here an approach that um is portraying the project in the right way? So I think there's so many so many beautiful ways in which photography can be a conclusion to a process and how it can kind of live on and tell the story of that project for sort of time memorial.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I really appreciate the the way that you're approaching um your entire position here is is not hey we just need a good picture because I know a lot of these own clients will be like well I have a camera I'll just go take pictures and it'll be good enough. It's uh it's really it's telling a story it's a bigger picture. And the amount of thought and energy that you're putting into the entire process and talking to the people that are involved it goes a long way. And then the the obvious you know results of having good storytelling is that you'll you'll earn better clients in the future you'll have better publications you'll have a better chance at award submissions um you will be worth more you will be valued more by your community and by your constituents and I think that all kind of plays into what you do here as a professional practice. And so just want to say very much appreciate how you approach it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah thanks I mean I don't think all projects necessarily need professional documentation I think there are some projects that do maybe some don't but I think when you invest in it um not just the resources but your own time and energy into certain projects it can really have a positive effect on your understanding of this piece of architecture that you've designed and created but can um put you out in the world in sort of a different capacity or way, whether that's an award submission um perhaps it's helping to attract a client that you think is very aspirational and might find deep respect in that sort of body of work, both the architecture and the images but um yeah I think it's important to choose the projects which you think need certain approaches and to really double down on what sort of visual perspective you want um all the way through to the finish line and how you want to represent that project. Sorry go ahead you know and it might be that the photographer is part of the story of a project you know it but you might choose if you have a project in another city you might choose to use a photographer from that city because they bring certain value to telling that story. You know certainly in Detroit I think I've been chosen for many projects because um or in southeastern mission because there's a perspective I could bring as somebody from here, you know, as part of that community. So I think there's there's all kinds of ways um there's all kinds of reasons to choose a certain photographer for a project or to have a certain approach and why it's important. It really is uh you know they are a person and they can bring all kinds of value creative and otherwise to project I love it.
SPEAKER_02So now you and I have known of each other for quite a while, but now we've known each other now for for a bit of time. And uh we've been talking quite a bit about photographing uh three squared projects now and home projects and as a result I have learned a lot about this industry and about your approach um from a professional standpoint that I admittedly probably wasn't thinking enough about going into this so I'd like uh I'd like to discuss a little bit about all right you have the initial conversation what as an architect or as the developers or the contractor the people who want documentation of this project right because you've also said that it's good to kind of pull in a number of people who would benefit from this it's not just the architect right architectural photography is sometimes hired by the clients sometimes by the people who built it sometimes by the people who developed it or the people who just want to publicate it. And so you talk to those people what are some of your boxes to check like how how do we prepare ourselves for a conversation with you to set you up for success in terms of like staging timeline scheduling like why don't we go through some of that because that was just fascinating you just dumped information on me that left me going like wow I really need to think more about this before I make those phone calls yeah on a practical level like when you're hiring an architecture photographer or a photographer let me put it this way if you're hiring a photographer that just shows up that's a very different experience than hiring architecture photographer because the the photo shoot day is like the tip of the iceberg and there's like so much beyond that that is very important.
SPEAKER_00It's like the how how the sausage is made um and just the planning uh leading up to the the photo shoot. But you I mean I think the biggest ideal with is people try to photograph projects far too early. They're very optimistic about completion timelines that they'll be through the punch list. You know, it'll be landscaped beautifully and um you know we've scheduled it for August 15th and it's peak fall and you know you get there and it's like a dirt patch. You really want to avoid that at all costs. And I think that's you know I've I've been in that situation so many times I do everything I can to try to avoid it. Because you know if you schedule it for the wrong time you know and it's not ready there are consequences. Not just you know as far as resources are concerned but if you're trying to push this project out into the world at the right time you know you might not be hitting that mark. And if you understand those they're all behind. Well that's what I that's the first thing I I like when people reach out uh they're like we want to photograph um this project on October 15th is going to be completed you know it's September. I'm like yeah we're gonna photograph that project in spring the following year because you're gonna have landscape being dropped in when I'm like on site and we're just gonna have this discussion about how it needs a season before it looks complete. So I think time is your friend there, but just planning you know thinking about you know everything you know just access to the building when you want to do you know this is not if we're talking about a home it's less complicated but if you're photographing like I don't know a government facility and you need access to the interior to put blinds up and turn lights on at nine o'clock there's that's a long email chain that you're gonna be on for for quite some time trying to sort it out. And I've seen the consequences of this stuff over time. So really it's very much a part of my workflow. One time I flew to Japan to photograph a department of defense project and I we rolled up to the gates we had all of our stuff our bags and they're like what's your base pass and apparently the company the architecture firm just didn't submit for base pass and like well you can you can photograph it but it just takes two weeks. So we're like okay well that's not gonna work so we had to fly all the way back home and we return back there months later but uh that's there's huge consequences to stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04So uh you try to eliminate it whenever possible I think it's a really great opportunity too to work in architectural photography and be capturing these still moments of buildings because so much about my favorite parts about architecture is the experience that a human interacts with a building and how you can influence and make the built environment better. And so have you come across certain challenges or potentially like certain enjoyments throughout the photography process of translating how it is to experience a building and particularly in the way that you're looking at a building through your lens.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow I'd have to pull through so much um in that but I think there's always a thrill it's kind of a boring answer but there's always a sort of thrill when there's something environmentally happening that you'd never planned for but is like it just a crucially amazing addition to your photograph, you know some like the fog is like rolling in at 5 a.m and you see just the peak of a building pop out or whatever and like you grab this amazing picture, you know it's I there's kind of a thrill there and you are sort of chasing something. And I think it's you know architecture and environment and the relationship sort of surprising you and then you're able to respond to that and I think that's kind of a really beautiful experience to be a part of but um I just I'm thinking through some of the projects I photographed, you know, I I think anytime there's like some the building is being used in maybe in an inappropriate way or not the intended way, but it's like just sort of a beautiful thing I think is just kind of incredible because you know when you're thinking about your shot list or if you're the architect that sort of wrote used blind you're like oh we need an elevation and we need an axial or whatever you don't you know you don't think about what's happening around the building. You don't think about sort of situational stuff that emerges and sometimes it can be a disaster but sometimes it like works out in the most amazing way possible and um it's a thrill and it really helps to tell the story about this project that these are kind of living sculptures out in the world. And you know once you put it into the public domain you don't have much agency over it. It it now belongs to the world to the public and um and to the you know to further sort of extrapolate on that it is affected by weather and all this stuff happening around it. And you just have to take your hands away from the situation and say like my you know hands aren't on the wheel anymore. Like this is this is out in the world. And I just love that experience.
SPEAKER_02I also find it really interesting that you know we we try to make buildings last as long as possible but the reality is is once you're done with the project you're exactly right. I mean you kind of hand it off to the powers that be and the universe has its way with it. And there are natural disasters there's floods, earthquakes, fires that wreak havoc on buildings but also buildings last as long as you take care of them. And we know for a fact that water will always win and as soon as someone stops maintaining a building it's on its way to doom. However those those moments that you capture they're locked in for for eternity effectively as long as we can preserve that data of the of the information you're kind of capturing a moment that lives long beyond potentially even the building itself and there's there's something to be said about that. How many buildings do we have photographs of that you know Jill Leslie myself and I will will never be able to see for ourselves because they're they're gone in the depths of history that's just a comment not a question.
SPEAKER_00I just think it out loud as we as we go through well it's it's a beautiful point but I I think that uh these creative acts make you think about how temporary life is and how fleeting it is we cannot experience the entire breadth of humanity and that's why it is beautiful to have pictures or you know to just be able to experience things that way because it's a creative act that you can sort of lose yourself in to to look at that photography because you may never set foot in front of that building. Even as an architect, you know, or if you have a practice you might find that there's a sort of creative trajectory there. You might have this like peak where you just firing all cylinders and you're doing the best work possible. And to document at that time is is crucial because it gives you a frame of reference for like I was here.
SPEAKER_02I like to sort of recapture that so I just you know our our contributions are so small um but very important and to take each one of them very seriously is important I think through to how you view it over time the photography, the documentation so every sort of detail should be considered whether it's some material or that image is made but you also get such a wide breadth of of work because you're not representing like one firm or one individual's practice. You get a chance to represent so many people's creative endeavors. That's also very interesting because not not to downplay what you do in any way but you know a pro a project in architectural development could take years and years and years of like nonstop effort. I mean we'll spend 40 hours a week for half a year uh just to realize a house or commercial project whereas like your your photography can capture that in a number of days um and and weeks and so you you get to expand your creative reach to a much wider audience and to look at so many other styles and represent those and capture those moments. I just think it's really beautiful um the work that you do and and your influence. So as we as we start to wrap up the conversation I do want to touch a little on a comment that you made earlier which is we we're living in a very visual world now uh it's it's much less literary. What are your thoughts on the technological influence of your practice professionally and and where do we see it going? How how do you see the influence of social media kind of taking over this space? For us renderings have almost become a taboo where it's like yeah there's you can make a digital building all day long but seeing that building come to fruition that's the hard part uh and then like how does AI start to even play into this scenario where you don't even have to think about making a building anymore you can just click buttons and it materializes in front of you. And so it's kind of it's kind of become this this whitewashed cyberspace from an architectural perspective that for us photography of real projects and projects that are under construction like seeing the process come together has become in in our experience so much more impactful than an image of what a building could be just because that's become so much easier. How do you see technology social media and artificial intelligence influencing this space?
SPEAKER_00Well you can't run away from it it's happening so you have to embrace it or harness it to some extent and I think it's better for the individual to figure out how to harness it versus say uh the world of capital or corporate America because they'll harness it in uh deeply troubling ways and uh render most of us uh useless slowly over time but I you know it has changed when I started out I worked with a photographer and this was in 2012 and he was still shooting four by five sheet film and I transition transition him over to digital um which probably late in the game but at that time he was one of two people doing what he does in this region and now there's many many more because everybody can purchase a digital camera which I think is kind of a beautiful thing in a way um because it allows more people to be creative to engage with the world and a sort of creative act it does make it easier. It's never bad when the process is harder I think and um I've always sort of embraced that so yeah I mean it's it it's it's democratized things it's made it more accessible it used to be that you know you shot architecture jobs with giant view cameras and four by five sheet film you roll up with uh you know 20 cases you'd have four assistants and you can make six shots in a day but now somebody can call me up the day prior to a shoe and they're like uh just all this equipment and you can respond quickly to things um now somebody can call me up you know uh a day prior to something and say can you swing by tomorrow and it's not um it's much less of an imposition. I never got these pants at firsthand because I you know I was born of the digital sort of revolution but um as it pertains to AI I mean that has transformed what I do greatly I just with Photoshop and the Firefly AI stuff I can uh turn around images much quicker because I'm not sending them out to retouchers. I mean there's concerns there about how that corpus of information is being created uh and ultimately who gets royalties for for that corpus of information which is something I think legally that like we have to process that culturally but I think there's a legal component that we need to address. But um you know even the sort of applications like Capture One of the Lightroom it seems to me that they're going to move in the direction where you're not editing much of your photography anymore where AI is becoming so important. And that means that you can just sort of be more responsive and agile. And I don't think that's a bad thing, you know, but you have to really harness it or else it can it can um have unintended consequences in all industries. Does that answer your question?
SPEAKER_02No it does I that's fascinating. I I mean there's obviously the whole behind closed doors aspect of your work where you you know you're spending tons of time selecting those photos editing I mean it's it's not it's not too far off from being a a director you know like you have to you have to choose those images that ultimately get sent out and the the fact that AI can start to assist with that and make your job easier and how you're not like upset about that. You know we talk to a lot of people in creative spaces that are like oh you know why can't we get ai to do my laundry instead of writing playwrights like I you know sure I like how you're embracing it and kind of coming about this. So um we we will certainly be working together in the new future I know that we're in the the final talks of of conversations around my house. If you're uh a regular listener of the show, you know that um I'm at the tail end of constructing my own private residence here in the city of Detroit in North Core town. The Cochrane home will certainly have Jason's name on it because he will be our go-to photographer when we uh put that out into the world uh when all is said and done and I got I got schooled on a lesson of yeah you're not gonna be ready and you're not gonna have like landscaping and like we're gonna push this till next spring because that's gonna be when your project's really going to be ready to shine. And that that was a that was a a real humbling moment honestly to to hear that lesson from someone who knows much better than I.
SPEAKER_00It's always my goal to slowly incept those ideas um and sort of you know instead of being authoritative about it. But yeah I I think that's a crucial component that needs to be considered and it's often one that you just don't think about because you're like the building's done when we punched it but no it's not far from it.
SPEAKER_02And as we all know buildings are never done because you're always especially houses never ending series of compromises. But on a variety of projects right now we are coming into the American Institute of Architects the AIA award ceremony which is coming up about a month from now which aligns with the Detroit month of design tons of celebrations and events happening all over the city and your name's out there. How can people find you? How can they see your work? Where would you send them if they were interested in seeing some of your photography projects that you're working on and things to come in the near future yeah Instagram is probably the best place at Jason Keenco.
SPEAKER_00You can give me a follow in there or go to my website jasonkeen.com. Those are probably the two best places to see what I'm up to but um yeah no it should be an intense few months with all the award stuff and just documenting projects and really look forward to that but also a photograph in your home brack.
SPEAKER_01Yeah absolutely we're looking forward to it we'll make sure we'll make sure that we have all of your contact information Jason in our our show notes so that people can just have a click and um get right to you but we're so super grateful that you were here today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah no it's been it's been a delight it's not often that photographers get talked about their process we're often in sort of visible phase of uh you know architecture documentation and and the whole process of marketing it but um it's been a pleasure I think um there's some stuff I needed to get out there that I think would be helpful if you're trying to plan a shoot even if it's not with me there's just practical things um that you need to be aware of but also this is a sort of conceptual interpretive process and I think if you're open to that collaboration it can really enhance um you know how you feel about your architecture but also the process of of editorializing it and getting it out in the world you know you can really have great effect on how it's seen out there in the world.
SPEAKER_02Wow pleasantly surprised how philosophical we ended up getting on a Thursday wow I mean what an incredible conversation and it's it's really lovely to be able to see uh some of the partners and collaborators we have within this creative space. Well that wraps it up for another episode of Innovative Real Estate with your host Three Squared Inc. Thank you Jason Keane for joining us today we will drop you our contact info in the show notes and how people can find you both your website and Instagram and you can watch our social media at 3Squared Inc for future projects and collaborations as Jason Keane as our photographer.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for joining us we'll see you next time hey thanks for having me bye thanks guys thank you we hope you enjoyed this episode and if you found it so valuable you want to connect with us one-on-one click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started. And to get notified on the next episode here on innovative real estate go ahead and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes so you never miss a beat. Get out there put today's advice into action and we will see you in the next episode