Housing REimagined with @pad.space

We are joined by Luis Antonio Uribegan (Design Think Tank) and Antje Steinmuller (University of Michigan) to break down a radical new vision for homeownership: Personal Apportion Dwellings, or P[A]D

Instead of buying a rigid, permanent building, what if you owned the individual modular components of your home and slotted them into empty commercial shells? We discuss the concept of "Open Building," why there's still resistance to manufactured housing, and how ultra-modular flexibility can give people true agency over where and how they live.

Episode Highlights:

• What is a P[A]D? (Personal Apportion Dwellings Explained).
• Owning the Partikles™, not the shell.
• Turning empty commercial office buildings into high-density housing.
• The "Open Building" Approach & Sharing Expensive Infrastructure.
• Why is America still resistant to manufactured housing?
• Financial breakdown and the future of portable living.

Resources:

• View the full Show Notes.
• Head over to P[A]D’s website to explore more, and connect with them on Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Connect with on Design Think Tank on LinkedIn and learn more at their website.
• Connect with Antje Steinmuller on LinkedIn
• Connect with Luis Antonio Uribegan on LinkedIn.

Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

PAD is the acronym for personal apportioned dwellings. You don't own a unit, but you own the particles that create your unit.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Something that might be individually owned almost automatically requires and builds a soft infrastructure around community.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

A collaborative of community actually can change lives.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hey, hey, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

And we are really excited about today's conversation because we're bringing in um a couple of radical guests here. And uh Luis Antonio Ribigan is uh is he's I just botched his last name. It's okay. He's gonna correct me on that. But Luis is uh he's a figure in and around Detroit. You have met him. If you haven't, uh I I bet you've been in a room with him, and I dare you to get home today without running into him. And it doesn't matter what country or side of this nation you're on, he's everywhere all the time. Um Luis is coming to us from Design Think Tank, which is his collective uh that's that's uh that's based out of uh everything that's happening there with Michigan Central and uh and and the labs that are right there. Um so he's gonna talk more about his team there. And then uh we also have Antia Steinmüller, who's coming here from the University of Michigan, and they are bringing together their expertise on a collaboration that is really transformative in the housing market. And that's uh obviously a topic of interest here on our podcast of Innovative Real Estate. And so I'm going to hand the microphone over to Luis, who's gonna introduce himself first, and we're gonna know a little bit more about what he's up to.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Thank you. Well, uh a pleasure to see you guys and and thank you for that warm uh introduction, Brad. Uh, I actually see the three square people everywhere, so so they are also everywhere. So that's that's cool. And uh yeah, Luis Antonio Uribegan. Uh I I say that now I'm half and half um Mexico City and Detroit because half of my life I've I was there and now it is here. And in uh truly the process of what we are wanted to announce and we talked about is is how we actually are creating a new reality for housing. Uh uh and and presenting alternatives that are not just single-line processes. Uh the there's always when we talk about innovation in housing, is a okay, let's talk about how it's built, right? Or or or this is kind of how we finance it, or or this is a creative way of doing crowdfunding, or uh, but there's has not been so far, uh, I think until Pat came, of something that holistically approaches every single vertical that touches housing. And because we've we think that if you really want to change the social infrastructure of housing and social impact, you need to really rethink on every single process. And that's the the initial point where we we we decided to embark now 10 years ago. So so really the idea has been developed for 10 years, uh almost 11, uh and going one by one, system by system, process by process, and and understanding where are the deficiencies of those of those different verticals or systems, and then rethinking or reimagine housing for the future. And that took us to uh what the research of of NJ uh is doing on the social infrastructure and the processes of of housing process and and how a collaborative of community actually can change lives. And we when we started talking about what we're doing and what they were doing in technology for the construction system, but also in the social side, we realized that the interest of both, of changing systems, was something that we can actually work together. And and that's where we decided, and we're embarking, and and we would like to announce that that uh U of M and Pad are joining efforts uh to find a way, do research, do uh actual uh laboratory work, uh leaving laboratory work together to to go after redefining uh housing. And Angie, I would like you to share a little bit of of that process.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

We should just take a little break and really acknowledge what you just said that and University of Michigan is joining forces. It's always amazing when we have the force of university behind us. And I'm so looking forward to this. So, yes, please continue. Yes, yay, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Thank you so much for having us today. Um, it's such a pleasure to be here. Um, I'm Antie Steinmiller. Uh, I am the chair of architecture at University of Michigan at the moment. And uh before I came here a couple of years ago, um I lived in San Francisco for 25 years, um, witnessing very up close the inaffordability of housing and uh you know the rising uh rental um cost and so on at the time. And coincidentally, I was also teaching housing studios um as an architecture faculty at California College of the Arts and uh started asking a lot of questions around you know how we might more fundamentally change the sort of conventional the conventions of housing. And uh one of the things that I observed at the time, together with my colleague Nuraj Bhatya, is the re-emergence of a lot of intentional communities. San Francisco, of course, has a long history of communal living and so on. And uh we began documenting the contemporary versions of uh communal living. And uh specifically, this really allowed us to ask critical questions about you know what it takes to build community today, right? What it takes to um uh accommodate today's needs and lifestyles better than you know in the housing stock that is sort of produced in conventional ways. And uh, we ended up uh working with the planning department in San Francisco and in essence um using our research to help change group housing planning code in uh the San Francisco Bay Area through the way we studied basically how people live together. So um out of that, right, I learning about Louise's work and uh Pat's uh approach to um, you know, just a very different way in which housing gets allocated, gets owned, you know, gets shared, etc. Uh, I just became really interested in exploring, right, how something that might be um individually owned almost automatically uh requires and builds a soft infrastructure around uh community.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Wow. Wow, okay. So this is this is some really, really exciting stuff. What I am hearing right now from both of these perspectives, um, because because um we all we have a lot of representation here. We're all like educators of sorts, right? Like from a from a very literal sense. Um, I also teach adjunct at Lawrence Tech. Um, and so I just recently did the Mass Timber Missing Middle ASCA competition as like housing, because housing is something that we we focus on heavily here. I mean, it's no no question that like Detroit and Southwest Michigan and all the Rust Velt states are really focused on housing and infill uh is you know particular. But I think that like what what I'm hearing from both sides of the story right now is that like uh housing is very, very complicated and deeply ingrained in societal changes, not just buildings themselves. And I think it's very silly and short-sighted to think of like, hey, the answer is gonna be in these like uh modular buildings, like okay, houses magically come out of factories now. This solves everything. Like, no, we we know that doesn't work. I'm fascinated by this. Like, you guys have have really started to establish like what I would consider maybe like a new form of ownership because people are used to two options either I own it or I'm doomed to rentership for the rest of existence, right? And you guys are touching on something far deeper. And so let me stop there and and and let you explain further because I really want to understand what PAD is and what that means in terms of options for housing for people. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

So um the the process really, and we have talked about this. Uh there's uh uh 60 years of research on a concept called open building. And and the reality back then, when that that that research started, is was thinking what in your lifespan actually ties you down and and limits you, right? On the actual building itself. And and the process of what they thought, they they saw housing in layers is is there's the outside layer that is the shell, that the that's the foundations, the the structure, the walls, that that that is the big things, the big infrastructure. And that also is the most expensive part of the of the of the scenario. But and and really that's part of where what ties you down, that what doesn't allow you to move. But if you start going in into the more specific and personal uh uh concepts or elements, and that's interesting because PAD is actually the acronym for personal apportioned dwellings, because once you go down into the personal elements of what creates housing, that's what changes dramatically what your possibilities of change and and and movement allows you to be. So uh the open building concept is you don't own, but you share the structure or the structural part of things that are the most expensive, and you personally detail and own the very uh uh personal items of your house. Based on that concept, is that pad completely reversed the idea of you don't own a unit, but you own the particles that create your unit. So what we what we then decided to to think is well, what are the shells? Water can be shells out there, and we obviously with COVID and everything else, we realized that commercial empty spaces were the perfect shells to be converted into housing. There's millions and millions of square feet, and more with AI coming. So we said there's already shells out there built around the world and they're empty. And there's people looking for people to to uh to occupy them. So the shells we don't have to build, the shells are there, so we don't expect to build ground up, at least on the first phase. The idea is let's use all these shells out there, and we come in and we create communities inside. So this is the nucleus of of the social infrastructure that we're creating, and the patparicles actually allow you to buy and configure your unit to exactly match your life situation, your necessities in that moment of life, your lifestyles and your budget. And that's that what how we're changing. It's not about oh, we offer uh one bedroom, a studio, and a two-bedroom, and you choose from these two models. No, a pad unit actually can be any size from a hundred square feet to five thousand square feet because the economics works differently because we're talking about the particles that you own, not the unit, and the unit doesn't move the money, as you said, Leslie.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

So let me let me repeat what you're saying from an architectural perspective, and then like Leslie's obviously got like the the the business mindset of all this as well, like coming from a development standpoint. Okay, so it sounds like what you're what the like the base argument here, if you will, Luis, uh, is that there are expensive parts and cheap parts of infrastructure, right? And you're saying that the expensive infrastructure is what holds the building up and what drives our utilities. Like this is common knowledge, right? Like bathrooms, kitchens, mechanical spaces are more expensive infrastructure than bedrooms and living rooms. Just the simple matter of fact. There's more going on in those spaces. And so the configuration of these units is assuming that there are these basic necessities provided in the shell structure that you're coming into. And then you have flexibility in, I will use the term modular units that can configure to a personal lifestyle because that infrastructure already exists. Am I following so far?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

The only thing is that the layer goes farther, is uh because you can actually size your kitchen. You can actually choose to share your shower, but own your WC and not share that. You can have your own shower, you can have uh two stoves. It's ultra modular. What is this infrastructure? Is that mains, the actual mains, and that you connect our power particles to. So so it is it is ultra modular in that sense, that it's not just modular, but really, really goes down to details. But, and this is where Angie comes, that flexibility and that ability to grow over time, because you can start with the minimum studio, and as your life changes, you get married, you have a kid, you add another room, you add an office, uh, you have another kid, you have another, you add another room, you have three kids. Oh, the kids go to college. Well, they actually take their room, and their room, because that's what power particles are, you can dismantle and take it somewhere. They actually take their room and it becomes their dorm at their university.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

So I was following, I was following until you said take it with you. All right, pause because this right there goes against everything that I, you know, have been educated on as an architect. The more moving parts, the more things can and will go wrong, is a brief way of saying it. But explain this to me because like I would see financial models pushing back against this, insurance is pushing back against this. Like, from my understanding, a bank would invest in brick and mortar, you know, for lack of better term, because they want the confidence that that thing retains its value for from that point forward, right? So, how does this work if you're making building elements that can be so you've taught me a new term? I love this. I'm gonna steal this ultra modular that you can take chunks with you. How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Well, that's another thing that we're doing differently. We are starting, and that's why we're in Detroit, and repurposing how we build cars to manufacture our part particles. So using the knowledge and the processes of materials, logistics, and supply chain and actually using those to manufacture our systems.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

So and T now my the educator in me is going crazy because it's like, all right, we are full circle back to like Buckminster Fuller and his Dymaxian houses repurposing the auto-body plants, like right here in Willow Run to make housing, and like normal everyday people are like, nah, I'm not living in an alien spaceship. So, how do we bridge these two divides? Because the last time that we tried to talk about mass manufacturing houses, right? Because that would make sense. Everything around us comes out of a factory except housing. We're still smacking sticks together with rocks on a job site making houses when we have the manufacturing capability. So, on one hand, I hear you, Luis. We can repurpose auto manufacturing technology to make modules. That clicks, that checks out in my brain. But how do we how do we convince the masses that this is like that we're ready for this? Uh Auntie, I'm looking at you.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I'm I see you looking at me. Um I uh I think this is really very much a matter of scale, right, and and aesthetics, right? So if I think part of the resistance to manufactured housing lies precisely in the scale at which it's been proposed, right? We all know sort of like container type uh modular housing, we know sort of you know wet cells that have been you know modularly uh manufactured, right? And there's an aesthetic to them that I think many of us resist, right? And uh I think the scale at which PAD is uh operating is more at the scale of a building element. And there I would say, like, you know, yes, we have you know manufactured lots of different mass manufactured large lots of different building elements without necessarily venturing uh into housing components, you know, per se. But I think this is where we get around the question that you know you're you're rightly raising, right? Which is why you know so many uh attempts at modularity have failed, right? Because a specific aesthetic of the home is is linked to them. And we all know what a home is supposed to look like, right, with its pitched roof and so on. So um that's really hard to dislodge.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

You guys are blowing my mind today, and and the idea is is that I is that we don't want you to live in Star Wars unless you want to live in Star Wars. But I have in my hands, and I wish people would see the video version, but this is an actual finished channel of our system. And if you touch it, it's like terrace. On the back is a manufacturer system, this is RTM, so it's a molded uh high, high density system, and we're joining it with that feel and look and feel, but with a technology system that actually is flexible stone. Try to do this with drywall.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

No, I've actually been able to hold that product in my in my own hands because I've I've been at your events uh and seen your booth. Um, I mean it incredible, incredible materials. And I just want to drive home for the audience. Like, we're not gonna unpack this whole conversation in this this brief talk, but like PAD is is merging research, housing technologies, the whole conversation, which as we know in housing covers everything from like appraisal value to taxes. Like, it's it is a it is a vicious beast, and and it goes all the way into the the actual technology of the materials that they're holding, but like I don't want to lose that huge statement that you guys just I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say blow your secrets, but you you hit the nail on the head. I asked a very specific question. I how do you change people's mindset around manufactured housing? And you you said it so clearly. You said don't do the outside, do the inside.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Oh my gosh, that's it. So I'm gonna pipe in here now with as much and uh excitement, I think, as as going to try and match Breck, although I'm not gonna scream. But here's the things that just started here, because you know, Luis, when you first shared this with me, I'm thinking, okay, we need like a warehouse or something, but that's not the case. I mean, that would be great to have an empty warehouse or an old shopping mall or something that could be um resert re you know, inserted with a modular approach. But what just went through my head are all these homes, for example, in the city of Detroit that need to be rehabbed. And right now, if you take Things down to the studs. You're looking at, I mean, 300, 350 a square foot just to get things back on par. And so adaptive reuse, rehabbing these old homes that have such a solid shell. I mean, we we're right now, we're we get phone calls from people who are like, hey, we really want to rehab this house, tell us what it's gonna take. And this just actually, I mean, uh the light bulb just went on for me because I do know if there are parts that can be assembled, um, created and built off-site, brought in in and then assembled inside. Uh, you've just hit a home run. Um, it's kind of like you're spending all night building IKEA cabinets, basically. I mean, it's not basically I oversimplified it, but um I see an application. Yeah, it well, exactly, right? Um, and after the first cabinet, that it took you, you know, four hours to do, the second, third, and fourth one take you 15 minutes. And so I see the value there of adaptive uh rehabbing, adaptive reuse. I didn't see that before. I um some things really clicked on this call for.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Let me let me let me just correct you on one thing because we are uh PAD is not at this moment for for single family homes. And that's where the community aspects of PAD and and how we think about community process. Uh it is it is about uh uh empty commercial real estate. And but but and and again, uh we are not intended to compete with drywall or other modular wall systems because those are commodities. But and pad, because we can build and manufacturing an automotive plant with those materials and processes, by square feet it is more expensive. But when you see it on a system and in a process, then your unit is cheaper. And I can tell you that owning a studio in Detroit in a pad community is 30% that renting the same studio.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

And there's other metrics that you're valuing as well. It's like how do you how do you put a monetary value to having like a social network? That's there's so much, there's so much more to unpack here. So so uh a very direct question for both of you guys. Where you're at in the development between the University of Michigan and Pad, what are you looking for in like your your prototype clientele? So the partnership projects, Leslie just laid out one example, which is like a warehouse. Like, what are the boxes that you're trying to check from like a location standpoint and the utilities and infrastructures? Because like one of the one of the terms that you hear the most if you're working in a city that has a lot of renovation projects is good bones, right? Like everybody, like people are looking for projects with good bones because the ones that are disintegrating have been scooped a while ago, right? So, what are you guys as a team looking for for these prototypes? Me?

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Well, we we definitely are looking, uh, and we have a process, actual financial process for uh owners of these shelves. We're not we're definitely the economics are it's not for abandon or or or deteriorate, it's actual uh unutilized empty commercial real estate. Uh but we actually are looking, and and it's uh cool to to announce that we even are talking to three square of a possible pilot location of where we can have a showroom. So so so the idea is to find uh existing projects or existing shells.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

So new so new real estate. That is like an ideal scenario.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

No, no, no. Ideal scenario is that unutilize uh existing empty commercial real estate. So we're talking about three floors of a tower. Imagine uh a downtown tower that has two big tenants, but then they have three floors of an empty that they cannot rent. We come in and we actually lease for 30 years. We do a commitment to lease and rehab an in-field conversion. That's what PAT is. It's an in-field conversion. We don't want to convert the whole tower. The economics don't work. And the communal community aspects of PAT is about that uh small communities that we're creating in five different towers in downtown Detroit, downtown San Francisco, in in converting uh uh an anchor store in a mall, because there's two stores that work, but that one of the stores don't work. So we convert that big anchor store inside a mall into our system. So it is owners of existing commercial, empty, unutilized commercial real estate that we infill convert into bad communities.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Got it. Okay, that definitely helps clarify. So, with what you're describing here, a good location could be, I mean, Cochrane Commons is no surprise to our listeners. We've covered it in depth. So, like, um, like a couple of floors of Cochrane Commons, uh, or that scale of new development, which is building its capital stack and like signing those letters of intent. That's like one position. But another position could be like the Fisher building under new ownership, doing a renovation of multiple stories of like a historic tower that has open real estate. You could launch pad in three stories of a building like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Correct. And we have done studies uh like converting uh the floors of the Penovska building into family units. Of uh, we're talking three to four bedroom units, right? What where would you find that in a it doesn't exist in the city? It doesn't exist because economics don't work with traditional conversion with pad, they do work because it's about the parts, it's about the particles, it's not about the unit.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Wow, you're opening up some can of worms. Um it's because let's say we go into um the Fisher building, and let's, for example, we're converting three of those floors, and now you've got a four-bedroom, a three-bedroom, you've got four studios, and you've got some one and two bedrooms when those tenants want to move out and they want to move to another state. Explain what that means, or if they want to move to another place in in the suburbs and they want to take their pad with them.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah, and and the idea of pad, and this is in our advantage, is that we will open communities in every city that people want to live. And yeah, there's gonna be the and we're talking worldwide, not just US. Uh, there's gonna be communities that at the end uh we won't have a pet community, and and and what we will do and we will offer, and this is where we're changing the paradigm, just like you do your iPhone when you don't need it anymore. We actually offer to buy your part particles back. And and then, but you keep your shares of the of the of pad that you have earned through other concepts like community uh credits and other things that we have uh we are thinking of uh uh and talking about with with Anj of other processes that are layered of creating wealth and economic mobility that is not just the valuation of your house, but other other things.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

So this is a long, this is a commitment. This is like a way of life, it's a way of living, uh like physically living.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Correct, because it goes with you wherever you go, and it grows with you and your and your mortgage and your it grows with you and goes with you, and that's the structure that changes. We're talking about what you pay for your part particles in Detroit for an 800 condo when you go to New York, yeah. The floor uh cost is is more expensive. So we we we charge you for the amenities and the floor uh at different, but what you pay for your system, your wall system or your pet particles is the same that you pay from Detroit. And you have an 800 square feet.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

You don't have to pay $2,800 for a 300 square foot apartment in the city of New York, is what I'm hearing about.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

No, we we we will prove that that that uh uh that you could you could completely transform that.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Um this is it's this is fascinating on so many scales. It's so as we wrap up here today, because this is going to be the start of what I hope is like a a multi-part series as we unpack what pad is up to, but these personal apportioned dwellings um continue to remain in my mind as like a a third option to renting or owning. It's like this this this weird new thing that I think you're you're gonna have some extreme challenges in the early adoption stage. Like, you know, if if I have a pad here, I'm hoping that one gets launched in the area where my family is also at. Um, you know, like I I also spent some time in San Francisco, so like can't wait for pad number two to launch at San Francisco. So that, you know, and and then we've got the you know, the in-laws are gonna add their pad to your pad. Like we got all sorts of scenarios that are gonna unfold to this new way. But I I would I would love if we could wrap up here with kind of just like some some bigger picture thoughts um on just like where housing we think is heading from here. I mean, there's there's a lot of passion and energy from the people around us and the topics that are finding their way all the way up to Congress at this point that our government just seems to continue to brush to the side. And and I think there's a lot of frustration um around housing. And this has been a battle cry for you know three, four administrations running that that there's not enough housing in the country and that we have an aging population in these big old houses and the suburbs sprawled, and now there's there's there's just a pinch point. So, like you guys are working together to answer this infinitely complex question. And there's gonna be a lot of naysayers along the way, a million ways people could say this is just a stupid idea and we're not gonna entertain it. I I commend you for this exercise and for the research and like the just the vast amount of experience and knowledge that the two of you bring to the table on the subject. Like, people should be listening. Um if you guys could just like what are what are your thoughts? Where's housing going from here?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah, um, you're asking a really pressing and really, really good question. Um, and uh I would say that one of the crises around housing that is significant but not necessarily talked about a lot is that the uh needs for housing are really changing, right? The demographics are not the same, right? People have different needs, right? Um older people end up alone, sort of struggling for community, you know, young people uh move a lot more, you know, with regard to jobs, right, and look for their own forms of community. The nuclear family in many cities uh really just is about 30% of the of uh housing seekers, yet housing units that are being produced are produced for this assumption of couples or the nuclear family. And so there are many different needs, right? And some of those, you know, are addressed by people who uh look for intentional communities, etc. But I think what we're talking about here, you know, with PAD as a system, both a system of ownership and a physical system, has the potential to address these other forms and configurations of housing and the other sort of of a housing unit on the one hand, and then also these other configurations of community, right? That uh is and so for me uh this is really uh a very critical thing to address for all of us who are designers, right, who are thinking about you know the future of housing.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

I I see the value of I mean, even our aging in place population and our kids going to college and uh uh you know, having a place over, like you said, San Francisco, Mexico City. I um this is really it's bringing some hope to the conversation. I want you to hear that. I see that. It would have been so much easier for my grandma to have had her own space. And then when it was time to move into a a larger community, holy smokes. That whole level of stress of being in a in an area where you don't even know and you you it doesn't look familiar. All I mean, I just there's there's a lot going on in my head right now. Luis, what about you? What say you? What else can we do to resolve and solve this and where are we headed in this housing crisis?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

It's it's that process. I think uh housing has has really uh uh uh lost his lost its way into into the reality of existence. And and and it is it is talking about your grandma. Uh what if she actually could move her cat unit next to you, right? And and in an intergenerational community, because that's the the the reality. It's is it's all these processes of of changing, of moving, of of of of of different life situations. We in our initial research we we we identified that every five years at least something dramatically changes that it would change your requirement for space in your life. And and yeah, life event. And and and and I mean Brad, you just you just built a house with accommodations for a baby, but imagine if you were in a studio, right? Yeah, uh uh so so so that's that housing doesn't react to that. And and and and we need to find different ways of of discussing uh how that that essential part of our existence can be addressed and redefined.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Well, I think this message also speaks volumes to a lot of these Gen Zs who they're just buying into the narrative, they're giving up hope on owning a home in any realistic timeline. Like maybe maybe owning a home is a stretch, but owning a pad is better for a number of reasons because it gives you the flexibility and uh and it g it gives you some some actual like ownership of your situation, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

It's a place you can call home, it's like yours, and no one can take it away from you. It is your space.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Well, it gives you it gives you some agency as an owner, you know? Yeah. Uh it is. Wow. All right, guys. Um, we're gonna wrap up part one here today. Um, Antia Luis, it it is our absolute pleasure and honor to have you guys here as guests. Uh, we hope to continue this conversation and look forward to updates when there is more on the pad development. Um, meanwhile, how can people follow along with you and this journey? Um, where where can we point them on social media or if they want to directly contact you?

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Um, they can find us in pad.space. That's our website, that's our Instagram, that's our LinkedIn.padpad.space. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

And we will include links.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah, and we will definitely share uh uh other links uh as we we probably would have a research uh landing page for what we're gonna be doing together. So once that is up, we'll we'll share it and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Always a big fan. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

We'll see you next time on another installment of Innovative Real Estate. We have been your host, Three Squared Inc. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Bye, guys.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Take care, bye.