Ep6: Navdeep from India

In this episode of Journey to Oz we chat to Navdeep who came from India to Australia 10 years ago. We discuss the balance required when being hard working international student, his journey to permanent residency, and his motivation to also study migration law so that he can become a Registered Migration Agent to help others avoid the sometimes bumpy journey he had.

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The Journey to Oz Podcast is produced by:
Nick Hansen from Hansen Migration
MARN: 1679147
www.hansenmigration.com.au

Evan Bishop from Worldly Migration
MARN: 1679414
www.worldlymigration.com

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Disclaimer
Any information discussed in this podcast is made available for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. We do not make any guarantee or accept any responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of any of the information discussed. The laws of Australia can change without notice and we do not have a duty or obligation to update any information. Listening to this podcast does not mean you have an agent to client relationship with Hansen Migration or Worldly Migration or any associated Migration Agents, lawyers or other service providers. You should obtain advice from a Registered Migration Agent or an Immigration Lawyer before acting on any of the content discussed in this podcast. You can find a list of Registered Migration Agents by visiting www.mara.gov.au. 

The information contained within this podcast may not be reproduced without our prior written consent. 

In the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of land throughout Australia and pay respect to their elders, we extend that respect to all aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders today. 

Thank you for listening. 

Transcript

 Nick:
Welcome to Journey to Oz, the podcast where we share migration stories from overseas to Australia. We are both registered migration agents, Evan who specializes in employer sponsored visas and myself, Nick, who specializes in family visas. Over the years, we've helped many clients who have very interesting stories to tell. Evan, you interviewed Navdeep who came from India to Australia 10 years ago, can you give us a rundown of what you'll cover in today's episode?

Evan:
Navdeep started his journey in Australia as a hard working international student, and is now a permanent resident and almost a registered migration agent. It was a very insightful and inspiring chat with Navdeep. And I started by asking him, what was the moment he decided to pursue his studies to become a registered migration agent?

Navdeep:
Actually two incidents happened in my life during my student visa application process. And the other thing that pushed me to get my interest in becoming a registered migration agent is my own journey of getting here and setting up my career in IT. What actually happened was, after my school, I did apply for a student visa to study in New Zealand. So my visa got refused as I failed to explain my statement of purpose.

Evan:
What a start to your journey.

Navdeep:
Yeah. I wasn't aware what's mean by statement of purpose. Actually, the immigration officer told me that statement of purposes when a student preparing his file, so he needs to explain why he wants to study in a country like New Zealand or any other country. So the thing that happened was, my agent did not provide me any information on that. So he did everything on my behalf, but he didn't keep me posted on that. That's why I got refused on a statement of purpose.

Navdeep:
And the second incident happened was, when I got rejected from New Zealand and I planned to pursue my education in Australia. So I went to an education consultant and he was actually pretending to be registered migration agent with MARA. That was like 10 years ago, and I had no idea what's mean by a registered migration and MARA. So I just did a bit of search and I actually found out code of conduct 10 years ago, and reviewed through the code of conduct to find out, if a registered migration agent takes services to represent a client, he needs to provide a pay slip, service of agreement and all these things. So I just went to this person and I was like, "I'm happy to pay you an RMA, but you have to provide me that pay slip."

Navdeep:
I couldn't find his details on the MARA website, and I found it was a kind of scam. So I just saved myself from that. And these incidents led me to educate others when they prepared themselves to migrate to any other country for example New Zealand or Australia. So being a registered migration agent in future, I would like to educate the people back home about the scams that are happening.

Evan:
Fantastic. And you experienced two very common things that can happen to vulnerable consumers like yourself, and you got yourself out of a spot of vulnerability by doing a bit of research, and just that savvy nature of being able to spend sometimes two to five minutes just making sure that what you're getting into is above board. And the first agent you went through that didn't present to you, "Hey, we need to do a statement of purpose, Navdeep. Can you please just outline these? These things is what you need to talk about." Unfortunately, that can happen where agents or people pretending to be agents just do a copy paste approach, where everyone is on a conveyor belt type application and it's just next person, you're just a number sort of thing.

Evan:
Case officers, they can just smell that stuff from a mile away. It's obviously a copy paste effort. I feel like some people don't realize that the individual, so yourself as a consumer at the time, want to really take ownership of your application. If he had said to you, or he or she sorry, had said to you, "Look, go through and do these for aspects for me, and then I'll proofread it for you to make sure you're on track with your statement of purpose," that is how people are hands on. Then you fast forward to the Australian one, and yes it was someone happy to guide your application and lodge it for you and stuff like that without going through that registration purpose. That's where a lot of people can fall into a real trap. And unfortunately, people who are giving immigration advice, as you know now as well from your studies, people who give immigration advice which aren't registered, it is a crime to do. 

Evan:
We need to protect people. And as much as you may not realize, you did after some research, but these people that operate that way know exactly what they're doing, unfortunately. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. And as you said, it is teamwork so the approach my agent should have taken is, took me on the same page, educate me what's going on. I think he just took my signature and he did everything on his own, and that's why I got refused. I've got my lesson. Everything I signed, any paper I signed with any migration agent afterwards, I had a print out copy with me all the time. I was making sure I read everything and I'm aware of everything I'm signing up here.

Evan:
It's a good attitude to have, and that's why, we'll talk about your studies in a moment, but that's why you're really suited to the profession of being a registered migration agent because you and I are a different cap to other people. I know my wife, she rolls her eyes at me when I read the terms and conditions of every single thing that I'm putting my name to. And I'll never forget when I was growing up, reading all of the iTunes every time you purchase a $1.25 song, reading the terms and conditions top to bottom and stuff. But look, it's-

Navdeep:
I think that's the safe approach.

Evan:
Exactly, yeah. Some people look at that weird, but at the end of the day, I think it's a good trait to have that not everyone has. Your journey and I are quite similar. I think it's really good that you went through an experience and you thought, "Well look, I want to do this myself so I can do it properly and ethically, and be able to give people a good opportunity the right way." I was quite similar. I was a recruiter at the time, and people would approach my firm to do labor market testing, so proving that someone is the right person for the job, not taking the job away from a local Australian. I was doing salary justification, so proving that the person is not getting underpaid or overpaid for the sponsorship role. Some of the things I was getting asked to do from agencies and from lawyers, the real indexed turning point for myself, it was close to Christmas time, and this was years and years ago now. 

Evan:
I got registered in 2016, so this might have been 2013, 2014. And an agency said, "We need to prove the salary of..." it was a sushi chef, and it was something ridiculous like 140,000 a year or something, in a food court. And I said, "Look, I just can't do that. I know you're paying me as a recruiter, as a service to justify the salary, but that can't be done." And I did a little bit of just looking around the department of home affairs website, when they would've been called something different back then, but I was going through and they could have of an English exemption if they had over a certain salary. And I thought, "Well-

Navdeep:
Highly paid salary, yeah, thank you.

Evan:
Exactly. And I thought, "Has this agency signed up this client and said, "Yes, we'll sort it out," without knowing the actual steps involved? And does this individual even know the approach that this agent's taking?" So that was my light bulb moment, was, "I want to do this properly and ethically to help people so they've got a good journey with their visa from start to finish." So absolute credit to yourself, mate. 

Navdeep:
Thank you, definitely. 

Evan:
Which I guess fast forward to now, you're currently in the process waiting for your approval. You're in this 30 day process of waiting for your registration to come through.

Navdeep:
I think I will get my license approved maybe in the mid of Jan or in the beginning of February. That's what I'm hoping right now. And apart from migration law studies, you have to make sure, as we're talking about ethics, you have to make sure that a person is of good character, is of integrity. Because now, the immigration's taking this profession very, very seriously, because it's giving a huge impact on clients.

Evan:
Yeah, exactly right. And what was the process involved becoming a registered migration agent? What was the process you currently find yourself in from start to finish?

Navdeep:
To become a registered migration agent, I've completed a graduated diploma in migration law at Victoria University. It was a one year course, which was happening on weekends only, but I have extended it to one and a half year, because I just want at one stage in COVID, I just wanted to extend it to part-time because I was working and I was just trying to manage the pressure of COVID and staying at home all the time.

Evan:
I was going to ask, my course was option of face-to-face or online. I was going to ask which one you did, but during COVID I imagine it was all online of course.

Navdeep:
One, we did start face-to-face before COVID, and then COVID hit and then we just all went online.

Evan:
Funnily enough, online.

Navdeep:
It was quite intense for that time. And after completing the graduate diploma in migration law, the other big challenge is Capstone exam, which we all hear that it was kind of a barrier from the day it came to exist. For the Capstone exam, I have just prepared myself to give at least four to five months of intensive, full-on studies. I have done self-studies and I'm also involved in a group or team. The reason I pick up studying in a team is because studying migration law, everyone has a different interpretation when you are a fresh graduate. So it's better to have another perspective and having look at things from other angle. So you always make sure that you're doing the right thing.

Evan:
Well, fantastic. And it's such a huge barrier to entry becoming a registered migration agent. It's not as simple as just completing the course. You have to do the Capstone, which is not prepared with your skills in university. It's truly a preparation in itself. And then, this process now of registering with MARA and needing to sit there for 30 days and compiling all your paperwork and requirements to be able to get to that stage at the moment. So I look forward to you letting me know when you get your RMA and you get your RMA number approved.

Navdeep:
Thank you. I'll keep you posted on that.

Evan:
And that's where the journey is right now, you're currently in the process of becoming a registered migration agent. I'd like to take it back right to the start where you grew up. You grew up in India and I'd love to find out a little bit what life was like growing up in India, and then what led you to Australia afterwards.

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. So I grew up in Punjab, that's a state in north India. The main occupation is farming in this state. I've lived in a village and I've completed my school there in the English medium since my childhood. Life is very slow paced in my hometown because it's countryside, the village, and I've enjoyed living there. I have a deep connection with my village. The name of my village is Putna, and I also have enjoyed helping my parents in the family farm from time to time when I've got study breaks. But I wasn't very good at farming to be honest.

Evan:
And what was the farm? Was it livestock? Was it fruit and vegetables?

Navdeep:
We had dairy farming, and I think that's another second income for everyone that lives in the village. So they've got one house for themselves and another house is for livestock, for cows and buffaloes. You make the income by selling the dairy products. And apart from that in farm, you just sell wheat and rice, that's a six month cycle, twice.

Evan:
You're probably missing very fresh milk. There's nothing quite like it. 

Navdeep:
Yeah.

Evan:
I was speaking to a lady the other day and we were talking about different types of milk at a café, and she was the owner of the cafe. And she said, "Look, I grew up in India and the best type of milk you can have is directly sort of fresh in the bucket sort of thing. The layer of cream and stuff like that."

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. 

Evan:
I remember that growing up as a kid, going to family farms and that type of experience, and you wouldn't have had milk like that since coming to Australia, of course.

Navdeep:
No, no, definitely not. And I do miss that. Being raised in a farming community, I've always given values of hard work and commitment to work. But I do travel back home maybe after two years, but when I was an international student, I couldn't go back there for a couple of years. Not able to afford it at that stage.

Evan:
What was the attraction to come to Australia? Did you have a preference for any Australian city? Had you been to any countries like Australia before, or had you holidayed in Australia before you became a student?

Navdeep:
No, I've never got a chance to travel to any countries before coming to Australia. Australia was my first country to visit. I had a few friends who were in Australia and sometimes I'd get in touch with them and they always encouraged me to come and study here based on the word class education, and multicultural society, and the good weather conditions similar to India. Most of my community back home they prefer Canada, but for me, Australia is because its amazing weather. I love the coffee culture, beach sports, activities in Melbourne being world's most livable cities. And that's why I prefer for Melbourne than other other cities.

Evan:
And I guess your opportunity with New Zealand, which didn't eventuate either, but New Zealand is, and I'm not talking from a place of bias because I'm born in bred in Melbourne, but New Zealand is just a bigger, more glamorous landscape version of Australia. So I imagine your attraction to New Zealand was much of the same as well. They're very similar countries, Australia and New Zealand. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. I had a couple of connections back in New Zealand as well. I think I will travel to New Zealand soon, because my partner is born in New Zealand, so we'll plan something very-

Evan:
Got you. I was going to ask, have you been to New Zealand before?

Navdeep:
No, never, never been there.

Evan:
There you go, [inaudible 00:15:11] when you can. So you came to Australia as an international student and a lot of the everyday Australians wouldn't realize what you need to go through, juggling being an international student with your studies and then also working. Australia is not, and particularly Melbourne and Sydney and to a degree Brisbane as well, are not cheap cities to be able to live in. It's a very expensive country. Can you give listeners some insight what it was like juggling the importance of earning an income in an expensive city, but then also the purpose of your visa which was to study full time?

Navdeep:
I was fortunate to live both lives, being an international student and a local student, I was studying migration law. So there are heaps of challenges when you come for international studies. Mostly if you are from a mid-class family where you can't afford all your expenses, your uni fees is coming back from home, so you have a lot of pressure to be able to find a job as a part-time and be able to earn enough to support yourself, at least manage some expenses if not everything. The main challenge is to work only 20 hours and manage time for your studies.

Navdeep:
Some students left behind in this pathway is because some of them are getting underpaid and being exploited due to their migration status. I have myself experienced that in the beginning, but then I stood up and I decided to find a different pathway. So I would advise to find a job on tax where your work rights are protected and you get a fair amount of pay.

Evan:
It's a very, very hard one to go through because people find that a lot easier to find the job once you're in a job. And then when you're in a job, it's very easy if you're working a lot of hours and you're tired from your studies, that you come home and you just fall in a heap on the couch. You get this great idea, "I'm going to apply for jobs for two hours tonight," but then you're just exhausted from a hard day's work and a hard week's worth of work. And at the time, it feels like a hard lifetime worth of work. And it's very hard for people to get out of that track, and credit to yourself for doing so.

Evan:
One of the universities I speak to in Melbourne, I chat to their students, we have like a work rights type week within the career side of it, of our midyear. And every year, I talk to the students. First thing I talk about is the difference between an ABN and being a contractor, and then being an employee, and then the whole cash-in-hand type work. The real trap that people fall into, and I do say to students, "Look, I'm not going to pretend that cash-in-hand type work doesn't happen, but people need to know the pros and cons of it." And there's a lot more cons involved. Credit to yourself for once again, you did that research yourself to see what is right and what is wrong, and to avoid that exploitation. And like you said, you've been on both sides of it because you had the initial job and then you got your job which was on the tax.

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. So I work as a cleaning car, I work as a removing house remover, and there was a lot of exploration when it comes to cash-in-hand. I think it's just a norm that people shouldn't accept when it comes to their work rights. So they need to be more aware of your work investment and the rights of being a student. I would say, if you find a job where you got a good pay and you have to work less hour, that means you save energy, that means you save time. And that means you invest more on your career, that means you invest more on your studies.

Navdeep:
For your first three or four years in Australia, time is more valuable than money but you have to balance out so you don't waste your time for others. Others might earn more money from you by paying you less and you might struggle a lot. It's a kind of trap when you have to skip your studies. You might have to work more hours and then you breach the condition of student visa.

Evan:
It's such a hard balance. And as much as money is an important commodity, so is time.

Navdeep:
Definitely. 

Evan:
And for people listening in, and if this has triggered anything for you and made you think, "Look, I'm starting a new job next week. I need to look into things or I want to look at my current employment." The Fair Work is our employment law body in Australia. They've got a very good website. They've actually got a sub-page within the website set up for international students and employer sponsored visa holders. But there is, I'm not sure exactly where on the website, but I did see about six months ago there's a fact sheet and it's called, What To Do When Starting a New Job, or something to that effect. And it's a couple pages long and it's worth people, when you're in an international student, it's worth you taking ownership of your work rights I guess, and getting above what can and can't be done in Australia, so that as you said, you can not get exploited and you can talk up and do the right thing for yourself. 

Navdeep:
Definitely. I think the reason why I choose to work part-time as an office cleaner in Melbourne CBD is the consistency of work that I will get, and it will make my income flow on part-time job. The good pay, so I have to work less. And there were also a cleaners union, so they come and educate you on your rights. So the environment was really safe because if you're paying tax, you need to know that you are in safe hands, you've got work rights. And if anything happens at work, you are in safe hands.

Evan:
And we speak a bit about exploitation and people are unethical and stuff on this episode of the podcast. But on the flip side, there's a lot of people like yourself Navdeep and me, who are very ethical in the migration world, and you're going to be when you get started. Also, as you just said, for the commercial cleaners, it was the union as well. So those aspects, there's always people fighting the good fight as well. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely.

Evan:
Did being like, because it was an office cleaner in the city so it would've been quite commercial, did you ever come across any insights? Like were you ever in an office with IT professionals and you got to chat to them while you were cleaning and stuff like that? Did it ever open any doors for you?

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. That's what I enjoyed working there. Being an office cleaner, I was keeping myself motivated that one day, if I do the right thing, if I invest my time in my studies, I might be able to get a job like these people are doing. So sometimes whenever we get chance from work, I used to have a chat with the people working there in the kitchen, sometimes people were even really helpful. I know one of the directors in that building, he actually invited me after his finishing over, he's like, "Let's go to the meeting room," then he explained me how he start his journey. He came from Russia and he became a director. And he actually spent so much time explaining me on the board how you have to prepare your resume. He actually become my referee. 

Evan:
Fantastic, a mentor. 

Navdeep:
That's the blessing that happened to me of working, being inside the environment there. So I've got so many contacts there from learning perspective as well, apart from doing my job.

Evan:
And that was your willingness to be able to speak to people and those conversations can take you places. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. I would encourage other students to make a network. Even you and me, we met on LinkedIn. So just invest-

Evan:
Yeah, true. We didn't cover that at the start. You and I are networks or acquaintances, yes.

Navdeep:
I would encourage other students to invest the time and right people, the people that help you grow, the people that brings positive environment, the people that motivates you. So even if you're by yourself away from your family, there's always someone who can teach you something in this environment.

Evan:
That's great and such positive messages in there, which is fantastic. There's a lot of positivity in what you say, but I imagine at times juggling as you said, the full-time studies, the being kept at the part-time work hours and living in such an expensive city, there would've been some hard times for yourself. What would've been some motivating factors to keep persevering through such a hard time?

Navdeep:
I would say the first thing should be the family values that I've got from my dad and my uncle to face challenges with a strong will, and give every possible effort to achieve the set goals. And the other thing is, if you're passionate about something you might get tired, but you won't get bored. But if you got bored, that's I think a dangerous thing. If you're tired, you can have rest then you can go back on the track. So to find something that you're passionate about, for me it was my studies and studying IT that keeps me rolling, keep me moving forward.

Navdeep:
I actually enjoyed my both works, working in IT, working as an office cleaner. I think I'll enjoy working as an RMA too in future. And the other thing is, the actual environment in Australia. I've always openly said that during my initial years in Australia, I had built trust with the system, that being from office cleaners and got encouragement from people working there. People always try to uplift you to keep moving forward. And I would say, unfortunately I had lost that trust in my country, in my hometown, due to the corrupt system and unbalanced wages to the workers. So being an office cleaner, I was able to manage my expenses. I was able to pay a bit of my education, which honestly I could have never done in my home country, which I wish I could have but that's the reality.

Evan:
And your journey led you to become a permanent resident of Australia. What was that pathway for yourself? So talk us through, and we've just gone through with the juggling of being a commercial cleaner and then also a full-time student. What did life look like for you when you became a permanent resident, and how did that come about for yourself? 

Navdeep:
Definitely the goal was to become a permanent resident as every migrant, but my focus was mainly to set up my career. I think if you focus on your skills, definitely you'll be able to manage to get your PR. And after getting my PR, I was able to relax because I've got full working rights. I was able to apply for jobs, and I was definitely getting more opportunities after becoming a permanent resident.

Evan:
It's a very sad misconception that happens in the workforce where a lot of the roles, because you just said it's so much easier for you once you got your permanent residency to really break into that career. It's been unfortunate, there are so many Australian employers, they go through and they copy paste every job ad that they've done over the last 10 years, they don't look at different ways of doing things. At the very bottom, you would've come across unfortunately, hundreds and hundreds of job ads which said citizens and Australian permanent residents only. And it's really hard because you might have been perfect for the role, because you might have been in your final unit or just finished university at the time, but not yet a permanent resident, and you had a lot of value to be able to give to an Australian employer but their tunnel vision to not be able to accept you.

Evan:
Now I do understand there's different levels of clearances in Australia, so obviously a temporary resident can't work for government departments and some areas of security and stuff like that, and that's all quite understandable. But as I said, it's quite prehistoric that some Australian employers just do the standard copy and paste. They're really breaking away from a lot of good talents. Because another thing that I talk to the university students about, I teach them that you've gone through so many different aspects in your life, which would be a true value to any Australian employer. You've upped yourself, and in your case from India, from a very hardworking farm family to come to Australia and to head first into academia, where English wasn't your first language growing up. And you've had to do assignments and exams, and group talks and stuff like that in English, which is not your first language. You've had to work really hard for an income and also balance being an absolute ace at your studies as well. 

Evan:
Some people, they might be working hard and sending some of that money back to their home country, to their family. I believe that all of these points combined with the bravery that someone has to up their life and move it to Australia for study to better their career as you said, is truly invaluable. And that's the characteristics that Australian employers should look for as opposed to closing the door. So I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know and I think I'm just harping on about the same thing, but it's something that I know a lot of good recruitment agencies that I work with, we're trying to really shape that up and change the perception on international students and graduates. 

Evan:
Because someone with a graduate visa in Australia goes for 18 months, but in most cases for two years for a bachelor levels or higher, and for those graduates, they can bring so much value to the Australian employer. And they're just fresh out of university. They're the best studies possible.

Navdeep:
They've got a different way of working. They've got so much energy. They're young, they're passionate about doing things.

Evan:
Hard working values. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. But as you pick up this point, it does hurt a lot but it is what it is. I think there should be a bit of change from the employers. Because when I did complete my bachelor of IT, from completing my bachelor of IT, there was a change. I have to do one year professional year to become a permanent resident. So from completing a bachelor of IT to becoming permanent resident for one year, if I was given an opportunity to work for an employer in IT, I wouldn't have to work one year cleaning for that until I got PR. That year, that valuable time, we could have helped a company, we could have bring something more innovative. I'm sad to say that because of these hurdles and challenges for our migrants, some people end up just driving taxi or doing other jobs which they don't want to, even after becoming PR. Because when they first graduate, they have full on energy. They want to make change, they want to do something. But because of some of the tough rules of migration-

Evan:
There's barriers, yes. And as much as I speak from an Australian, I was born in Melbourne, I haven't had to go through the same tough process that you have to be able to get full-time work rights. I like to think I've been fighting the good fight. I'm going to be celebrating this coming April 2022, will be my 10 years of helping international students. And as much as only... More than half of that time now has been as a registered migration agent, but as a recruitment, really helping students to break into their first jobs. So hopefully, I think that we are really starting to get a bit further in that regard, with making it more acceptable for employers to embrace international students and then embrace graduates in general. 

Navdeep:
The gap should be filled from an employer perspective. And the young talent, even from an international point of view, from international students, they should also be given more opportunities because they pay a lot of fees. I always say that the biggest expense in international student's life is either uni fee or saving money for a house. It's kind of similar. 

Evan:
And the tuition fees have got to come first of course of those two, because it's upfront.

Navdeep:
Definitely.

Evan:
It's been good over the years. I've seen when I moved out that graduate position and entry level, internship type space, it was good because I was being subcontracted by a couple of the big universities and they were making their internship placements mandatory for students before they graduate. And IT was one of them, which is good. As an agency, I was paid by the universities to be able to get these entry level placements for their students. And the good thing is that universities now are looking at employability for their students, to be able to say that, I'm just going to pick a number here, but to be able to say, "98% of our students when they graduate, they get full-time employment within the first six months." And behind the scenes, they're relying on recruiters to be able to open those opportunities. But that's with the hard work and the talks to change the mindset of these employers, that the benefits that international students and recent graduates can bring to the table.

Navdeep:
Definitely that's a big effort. Thank you for us standing those rights as well.

Evan:
Thank you for sharing your story, and the start to finish about leaving India to come to Australia, and trying to go to New Zealand, then your experiences and that light bulb moment of thinking, "Well I want to be able to do this one day for people more ethically and more transparent for people's cases." And did your IT studies, got your permanent residency, and the juggle of being an international student and working as well. Now you're currently in the process of waiting to receive your registration as a registered migration agent. So what will be the... I know that you start your job super soon, what will be the next chapter for yourself once you get some experience under your belt? Do you have a particular area within migration law that you want to assist with?

Navdeep:
I want to focus more on student visa plus employer sponsor visas, and also partner visas as well. But actually, I'm a bit open to learn everything to start with, and then later on I think I'll see where I want to become more expert in. But I'll definitely keep my soft spot for international students. I will definitely do my best to... Even if I could do a bit of pro bono or if I could raise awareness especially back in my back in my country, in my community, if I can help someone to protect themselves from the scams that are happening there.

Evan:
You might find yourself visiting home again one day, and you might find yourself talking to people at a seminar, and you go through those different pitfalls that you want people to avoid as well. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely. 

Evan:
I think you'll always find yourself helping students just as you said, soft spot that you have from your own journey. 

Navdeep:
Yeah, definitely I'll do whatever it takes to help the one they will and the hardworking people who are planning to come to Australia. And I will plan, once I've got enough experience, once I've got enough knowledge to start a podcast like you or a YouTube channel or even a blog that can educate the students and that can help them to build a bit of confidence, and might as well start something like helping them preparing for job interview on the other side, or resume writing. The kind of help I've got from office cleaning job, I'll try to help others.

Evan:
And this has been a really good chat that we've had together in a real good, deep dive of your life story to date, but I'll tell you what mate, there's a lot more chats to happen between you and I. Because of the helping that I've been giving to international students over the years, I'd love to be able to have a sit down with you soon over a coffee. As you said, your love for coffee as well, and we'll go through some of these things as well.

Navdeep:
Definitely. I look forward to catch up with you once I'm back in Melbourne. I hope everything is back to normal there now.

Evan:
Well look, fantastic for your time today. I really appreciate what you've gone through with me, which was starting about your interest in helping others and for others not to go through what you did with your migration journey at the start. So you're now becoming a registered migration agent any day now, which is fantastic. And then your journey about what it was like growing up in India, your attraction to come to Australia, and the juggles that you had to do between your studies and being a worker as well, and what you had to go through to get to that point. So your fast forward to today and you're a permanent resident of Australia, almost a registered migration agent and going to help people, which are going to commence the same journey that you had as well. So very fantastic and admirable of you to go through what you've done. And thank you so much for sharing your journey on the Journey Towards Podcast today. 

Navdeep:
Thank you, Evan. Thanks for giving the opportunity to speak with you. I would like to say, the others who are working hard, to stay focused, to stay motivated and good things will come up. Thank you.

Evan:
Those are very sound, wise words, so thank you Navdeep and thank you for sharing your time today.

Nick:
That was great, Evan. I really liked how Navdeep explained the process of becoming a registered migration agent. And it was really interesting to hear his experience with dealing with a non-registered agent, because this is something that can come up quite a bit especially for applicants outside of Australia. So a migration agent has to be registered with the office of the MARA if they're practicing within Australia, but they don't actually have to be registered if they're outside of Australia. There are registered migration agents outside of Australia who choose to become registered, just to give themselves more authority with their clients, but there are plenty of non-registered agents especially in countries like India. 

Nick:
So you never really know what you're going to get if you're dealing with an unregistered agent. They may be cheaper but they may also be scamming you as well. So to be sure that you are dealing with a registered migration agent, you just need to visit Mara.gov.au and scroll down a little bit, and click the search for registered migration agent section.

Evan:
And the MARA stands for the Office of Migration Agents Registration Authority. And it's really good that we've got this professional registration body, which can oversee what we do. So you can go to the OMARA website, as Nick said, it's Mara.gov.au. And you can search for migration agents. It has information and fact sheets about how to choose a migration agent and different tools there as well, but also about the complaints process. If you go to find out about a prospective migration agent you're going to work with, it's a huge red flag if they're not searchable on this website. So it's searchable by first name, surname, searchable by the name of the business as well. Very important you make sure that anyone who's giving the migration law advice that they're registered with OMARA.

Nick:
They're also searchable by the MARN as well. So the MARN is the Migration Agent's Registration Number. So every migration agent should have a MARN number and it should be in all of their advertisements, it should be in their email signature, it should also be on their website as well. And you can actually tell what year your migration agent was registered in by looking at the first two digits in their MARN number. Evan and myself were registered in 2016, so both of our MARNs start with 16. So you can look at it... So for example, if a migration agent was registered in 2020, their MARN will start with 20. 

Evan:
It's a huge red flag because as Nick said that you need to have your MARN in all of your advertisements plus on your website, it's a huge red flag if you're looking to deal with someone and you cannot find their MARN number.

Nick:
Yeah, definitely. The MARA website also has steps to register as a migration agent as well. So Navdeep did cover a bit of this throughout the interview, but if you are interested in becoming a registered migration agent, you can also find out more information on the MARA website as well. Thanks for listening to the Journey to Oz Podcast. If you've liked what you've heard, please subscribe and also leave us a review. We will release a new episode every second Tuesday, so please stay tuned.

Speaker 4:
The Journey to Oz Podcast is produced by Nick Hansen from Hansen Migration, Migration Agent Registration Number 1679147 and Evan Bishop from Worldly Migration, Migration Agent Registration Number 1679414. Any information discussed in this podcast is made available for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. We do not make any guarantee or accept any responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of any of the information discussed. You should obtain advice from a registered migration agent or an immigration lawyer before acting on any of the content discussed in this podcast. You can find a list of registered migration agents by visiting Mara.gov.au. The information contained within this podcast may not be reproduced without our prior written consent. In the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of land throughout Australia and pay respect to their elders. We extend that respect to all Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders today. Thank you for listening.