In this episode we speak to Yndra and Dan about how they met and the challenges they faced bringing Yndra to Australia. They applied for a prospective marriage visa in 2019 and waited more than 2 years for the visa to be granted. Even then Yndra wasn't able to travel to Australia immediately thanks to the COVID-19 border closure. This is an inspiring story of patience and persistence and a worthwhile listen for anyone in a long distance relationship. We also discuss the Novak Djokovic visa cancellation, his removal from Australia and we provide some immigration updates.
If you like what you have heard please subscribe and leave us a review.
The Journey to Oz Podcast is produced by:
Nick Hansen from Hansen Migration
MARN: 1679147
www.hansenmigration.com.au
Evan Bishop from Worldly Migration
MARN: 1679414
www.worldlymigration.com
Please visit either of our websites to book a free consultation.
Disclaimer
Any information discussed in this podcast is made available for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. We do not make any guarantee or accept any responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of any of the information discussed. The laws of Australia can change without notice and we do not have a duty or obligation to update any information. Listening to this podcast does not mean you have an agent to client relationship with Hansen Migration or Worldly Migration or any associated Migration Agents, lawyers or other service providers. You should obtain advice from a Registered Migration Agent or an Immigration Lawyer before acting on any of the content discussed in this podcast. You can find a list of Registered Migration Agents by visiting www.mara.gov.au.
The information contained within this podcast may not be reproduced without our prior written consent.
In the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of land throughout Australia and pay respect to their elders, we extend that respect to all aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders today.
Thank you for listening.
In this episode we speak to Yndra and Dan about how they met and the challenges they faced bringing Yndra to Australia. They applied for a prospective marriage visa in 2019 and waited more than 2 years for the visa to be granted. Even then Yndra wasn't able to travel to Australia immediately thanks to the COVID-19 border closure. This is an inspiring story of patience and persistence and a worthwhile listen for anyone in a long distance relationship. We also discuss the Novak Djokovic visa cancellation, his removal from Australia and we provide some immigration updates.
If you like what you have heard please subscribe and leave us a review.
The Journey to Oz Podcast is produced by:
Nick Hansen from Hansen Migration
MARN: 1679147
www.hansenmigration.com.au
Evan Bishop from Worldly Migration
MARN: 1679414
www.worldlymigration.com
Please visit either of our websites to book a free consultation.
Disclaimer
Any information discussed in this podcast is made available for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. We do not make any guarantee or accept any responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of any of the information discussed. The laws of Australia can change without notice and we do not have a duty or obligation to update any information. Listening to this podcast does not mean you have an agent to client relationship with Hansen Migration or Worldly Migration or any associated Migration Agents, lawyers or other service providers. You should obtain advice from a Registered Migration Agent or an Immigration Lawyer before acting on any of the content discussed in this podcast. You can find a list of Registered Migration Agents by visiting www.mara.gov.au.
The information contained within this podcast may not be reproduced without our prior written consent.
In the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of land throughout Australia and pay respect to their elders, we extend that respect to all aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders today.
Thank you for listening.
Evan:
Welcome to Journey to Oz, the podcast where we share the migration stories from overseas to Australia. We are both registered migration agents, Nick, who specialises in family visas and myself Evan, who specialises in employer sponsored visas. Over the years we have helped many clients who have very interesting stories to tell. Nick, can you give outline of what we will cover in today's episode?
Nick:
I spoke Yndra and Dan about their prospective marriage visa application and the hurdles that they had to go through for Yndra to get to Australia. Yndra's from Venezuela and they initially met online, and then decided to apply for a prospective marriage visa after Dan went to Venezuela to meet her. Initially, we expected the application to be processed within 12 months, but then COVID hit and it really delayed the process, so we go through the ins and outs of that, and the lengths that she had to go to, just to get flights to come to Australia as well. After the interview we'll also discuss the Novak Djokovic visa cancellation and removal from Australia and some immigration updates. But first, I started by asking Yndra about her first impressions of Australia.
Yndra:
When I was in quarantine, I had this view of I think it's the Sydney Harbor.
Nick:
Darling Harbor.
Yndra:
Darling Harbor?
Nick:
Darling Harbor. Yeah.
Yndra:
Well, it was the name of the hotel. I had the view, it was great. At the beginning, there was still lockdown so everything seemed very quiet, it was very odd. I had this great view, but the in the windows were completely closed, even though there was a big window it was completely closed. At a certain point, it just becomes unreal, because you're not interacting with the environment at all.
Nick:
Yeah. Okay.
Yndra:
So it was a little bit odd. I had no experience of arriving in Sydney at all, really. The airport was completely empty.
Dan:
What did you think when you got out of quarantine, what did you think of the place?
Nick:
That was going to be my question actually.
Dan:
Oh, sorry.
Yndra:
Sorry. I was like, excuse me, [inaudible 00:01:57]. When I got out of quarantine? I thought it was very bright. I thought it was very sunny, very bright. I thought everything looked really organized and clean. I didn't have too much time to see many things around me, because I was just focused on getting Toowoomba itself. When I got into Toowoomba it was bigger than I expected, geographically, and it has an enormous amount of vegetation that surprised me too.
Nick:
And what about the people? What was your impression of the Australian people that you first spoke to? Did you sort of have any trouble understanding anyone or was it pretty straightforward?
Yndra:
Oh, when I was in quarantine, I subjected myself to this regimen of watching television. After the third day, I was like, wait, what am I doing? So I started watching television, only the Australian channels, because I thought that would help me to understand people better when I got out. I do think it did help, but at the end it was making me a little bit crazy hearing the TV all over. And my impressions of people so far, honestly, they're really nice and they're really friendly once they're engaged, but I do feel like when they're doing their errands and things, they're very on task. They're not really like, oh, I'm just going to [inaudible 00:03:39] to talk with a random stranger and waste my time. No, they're doing their thing, but once they fix on you, like oh, I'm talking to this person, they're very nice.
Nick:
Yeah. Okay, so head down, got things to do, don't have time to talk to anyone, but when you're actually formally introduced to someone, they're a lot more friendly and interested.
Yndra:
Yes. If they themselves are like, no, I'm taking my time to talk with this person or to help this person, then they're really friendly more than I expected.
Nick:
Oh, that's fantastic. Dan, what's it like to finally have Yndra in Australia with you?
Dan:
Oh, it's pretty surreal. It's really good. It's been so long that we were waiting to actually be together and it's been interesting learning to live someone, if that makes sense, because it was so long. So actually living with someone again is really strange, but Yndra is just awesome. It's been really good.
Nick:
Fantastic. And Yndra, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Where did you grow up?
Yndra:
Yeah. I grew up in Venezuela. Most of my childhood until I was 13, 14, I was in a small town called [Cua 00:04:53] in a different state, and then after that we moved to a small city where most of my family lived called [Maracay 00:05:03]. I never lived in the capital city of Caracas, but all of these places are relatively close compared to places in Australia, that the distances are way bigger.
Nick:
Yeah, because I think Venezuela's probably about the same size of maybe New South Wales.
Yndra:
Yeah, one of the states. Yeah, Queensland, maybe it's a bit smaller. Most of the major cities are around the coast, kind of like here a little bit, so I grew mostly in Maracay. Maracay wasn't the capital city, at a certain point it was more like the [Garden City 00:05:41], so I thought that was funny, that was coming here to a garden city.
Dan:
To Toowoomba, yeah. I didn't think of that.
Yndra:
No, it didn't remind me to the real Maracay, but it reminded me of how I saw Maracay when I was a child. I saw it big, green, parks and that kind of thing. I really liked that.
Nick:
Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. And how about yourself Dan?
Dan:
Yeah. I'm from [Taree 00:06:07], New South Wales, and I lived all over. Mum and dad were missionaries, so they traveled overseas a bit and traveled all over Australia doing Pentecostal missionary business, so then I came to settle in Toowoomba. It's the longest place I've lived, in Toowoomba, and I've settled here about probably 12 years ago now, so really liking it.
Nick:
Okay, great. And how did you first meet each other?
Dan:
We were both part of this little website called Spin Chat and it's nothing now than what it used to be, but for years and years, we've both been on there, but not knowing each other. And then we did meet each other and I thought she was the business pretty early and just sort of kept bugging her every time she was online until finally, she would be talking to me and stuff. We just kind of went from there.
Nick:
Fantastic, and you flew to Venezuela to meet Yndra for the first time in November 2016?
Dan:
Yeah.
Nick:
What were your first impressions of Venezuela?
Dan:
I liked it. I thought it was really great. It's very vibrant culturally. It's a different kind of street culture to what we've got here. There's a lot of food and coffee on the sidewalk, guys walking around with these little things of coffee. I really thought it was a good place. Pretty steamy, but it was great.
Nick:
Yeah. I was going to actually ask you about the food, because I've tried arepas that they sell on the street, not in Venezuela, but I have actually tried them and love it. They're really good. They're like these little [crosstalk 00:07:49].
Dan:
There's some really good food there.
Nick:
Corn. What are they, Yndra? It's like a corn meal, kind of like a bun with meat and avocado and stuff in it.
Yndra:
Yeah. It's like a... What's the name? It's precooked corn meal and after that, they will make the ball, they cook it and the fillings. The fillings can be very intense, like what you're saying, with avocado and pulled beef.
Dan:
Yeah, but that's something that you do with your family, wasn't it, to hang around and everyone make arepas.
Yndra:
It is like a very daily life, normal sort of thing, making a toast. People daily will eat them.
Nick:
Sounds like my kind of toast.
Dan:
Definitely tasty.
Nick:
Dan, how were you welcomed by Yndra's family?
Dan:
Ah, it was great. I was really surprised how open they were, because it was this fully grown stranger coming from so far away. They only found out about me a little time previous to me actually getting there.
Yndra:
Yeah. I didn't tell them from the beginning because we started talking and he came almost a year after we started talking, something like that. I didn't tell them from the very beginning, but let's say three months before he came, something like that.
Nick:
Okay.
Dan:
Something like that, but no, they were all very lovely, very welcoming. And even though we couldn't speak the same language, we definitely had a lot of conversations just with body language and facial expressions and all that kind of stuff, so they were right into it.
Yndra:
My family knew, because it was very suspicious how I kept talking in [inaudible 00:09:41] and giggling and laughing in English, night after night, so it's more like I came clean in three months, after he came. But already knew something was happening.
Nick:
What's your Spanish like Dan?
Dan:
Oh, it still needs a lot of work. A lot of work.
Yndra:
He knows how to ask for coffee.
Nick:
Oh, how do you do that? I don't even know how to say that.
Dan:
[foreign language 00:10:11], but that's it.
Yndra:
It's not about [crosstalk 00:10:13], but yeah.
Dan:
I gained the body language skills.
Yndra:
[crosstalk 00:10:19] basic survival skills, asking for coffee.
Dan:
Coffee over there is a real experience. Over here, it's sort of instant coffee and everything, but over there, it's all brewed and there're people cruising around with these little shooters coffee, and you buy it off these random dude on bicycles. It's just a big part of the culture, so I've really appreciated that.
Nick:
We don't do instant coffee in Melbourne.
Yndra:
I know. I knew [crosstalk 00:10:46].
Nick:
No. It must be a Queensland thing.
Dan:
We're still [inaudible 00:10:53] up here in Queensland.
Yndra:
Oh my god.
Nick:
Melbourne is full of coffee snobs.
Dan:
Yeah. That's right.
Yndra:
Oh my goodness.
Nick:
Anyway, how did you come to the decision to apply for the prospective marriage visa?
Yndra:
What happened is we started talking, we came eventually to the conclusion that we wanted to be together, but of course, that would require us being together in person. So then we started looking into possibilities for being together in person and we thought that it was a little bit difficult for me to get maybe a tourist visa and stuff like that. It could potentially be not successful, because of reasons with the country and things like that. Also, it would have been good for him to come, I did want him to come and meet my family. It did mean a lot to me that they met, but we saw the difficulty in a way of the tourist visa, getting the tourist visa.
Nick:
Yeah. It's a good point.
Yndra:
We really wanted something permanent.
Nick:
Yeah, okay.
Dan:
So it was the only option really.
Yndra:
Of course, if we met and everything blew up, of course not, but at the time we were like, if everything is going as amazing as it's going, if we feel how we're feeling, we want to be permanent together. So then we started looking into the possibilities of how to go there.
Nick:
Yeah. With regards to the visitor visa, it's quite common for people to apply for a visitor visa and have multiple refusals before deciding to apply for a prospective marriage visa. Because the other option is partner visa, but really for a partner visa, they have to already be married or have lived together for 12 months to apply for the partner visa, in most cases. So prospective marriage visa is a good option, because you only have to have physically met in person once and be engaged and have a marriage date, and also convince the department of home affairs that you intend on living together as a married couple. So a prospective marriage visa is a good option. Now, when did you get engaged?
Dan:
Nick, when I was there actually proposed. I proposed, but I also asked her parents for permission. When I was there, I asked their parents for permission and did the whole thing.
Nick:
How did that go?
Dan:
It was really something, I was very humbled. They took it really well.
Yndra:
He was really nervous.
Dan:
Yeah. I was very nervous.
Yndra:
Did Yndra have to translate for you?
Dan:
Absolutely, everything was translated.
Nick:
But even when you asked for permission, Yndra was there translating?
Yndra:
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:13:43] I was outside my mom.
Nick:
That's fantastic.
Dan:
Yeah. So it was a real different kind of experience, in that regard. But no, they were really happy, because we went somewhere in like this German town, which is a touristy sort of place, so we had some time together there. And before we went to that place, I thought, I'd better say my intentions, not just cruising off for a holiday with their daughter. I didn't want to get in trouble or anything.
Nick:
Yeah. Fair enough.
Dan:
But that was what we were wanting to do anyway.
Yndra:
Because at the time, it was a bit unsafe and I was worried about Dan potentially being targeted or something like that.
Nick:
Oh yeah. Okay.
Yndra:
Because he did look very foreign.
Nick:
For being a gringo. I think that's what they call us down there. I think we get called gringo's.
Yndra:
Everywhere [crosstalk 00:14:42].
Dan:
They're mostly Americans, but we still get lumped into [crosstalk 00:14:46]
Nick:
Of course.
Yndra:
Yeah, he was being called Blondie in the street by random guys. He was like, I'm brunette. It was like, I'm sorry, you're blonde here. So because of that, we went to Colonia Tovar, which is like a German town, a tourist sort of place, which is kind of small. It's more secluded and a lot of people go there for mini vacations, weekend getaways. And I like that idea because then we could walk more. We were just walking around.
Dan:
We were together, so we could see something of what life together might be, because that's something that we couldn't determine online.
Yndra:
Yeah. We were just walking around normally through the streets, very relaxed, which I don't know in the city, if I could, because I felt very responsible if anyone targeted him for being a gringo, looking like that and stuff. I was taking it very seriously to try nothing happened to him. I had all these ideas, what if they kidnapped his passport or something? I didn't want anything like that, so we went there, so it was weird because he went to Venezuela, but it was like a German town thinking.
Dan:
It worked out.
Yndra:
It was a German town Venezuela thinking, and it was lovely.
Dan:
It was great.
Nick:
Very nice. And how long were you in Venezuela for Dan?
Dan:
Three weeks.
Nick:
Okay. And was there ever a point where you considered relocating to Venezuela permanently?
Dan:
Oh, absolutely. I really loved it when I was there. One thing that was really noticeable was the shortage of different things, so because of my health situation and I've got mental health issues being bipolar and a couple of anxiety and depression, just that kind of fun stuff. I'm rather reliant on medication and those medications wouldn't have been available in Venezuela so easily, so that kind of ruled out staying there.
Yndra:
At that time he went, it was very noticeable. I remember I went to... So you see how weird it was, we went to Colonia Tovar and I saw Coke again, which I hadn't seen [crosstalk 00:17:03] and I just got crazy because I finally saw branded Coca-Cola again.
Nick:
Oh, Coca-Cola.
Dan:
Coca-Cola.
Nick:
So shortage of necessities.
Yndra:
There was a big shortage of tons of things, especially sugar, milk, all of these things. Medicines for sure.
Nick:
Okay.
Dan:
It's just to point out how short those things were.
Yndra:
And I think it was a little bit weird for him.
Dan:
Oh, it wasn't weird. I thought it was an adventure. I thought it was a big adventure, I was happy. But as far as being able to live there, just because of the medications really. I would've done it in otherwise.
Nick:
Yeah. Okay, fair enough. So you made the decision for Yndra to relocate to Australia. How did your family react when you told them that you'd be leaving Venezuela, Yndra?
Yndra:
They were happy for me, honestly. They were happy that I found Dan. They were mostly focusing on that aspect, they didn't really mention too much about being so far away.
Dan:
They thought that I was there to take her with me [crosstalk 00:18:14] just then and take her back with me, so that was actually their understanding.
Nick:
Oh, we get to have her for another year or two.
Yndra:
Yeah. They were a bit shocked, but they were happy that I found some, they were very fixed into the idea that I found my love story. They were really into that.
Nick:
So we launched your prospective marriage visa application in May 2019. Now, at the time we expected that it would be processed within about 12 months, something like that, because at that time that's how long they were taking. Now, when did you initially plan to get married?
Dan:
We were thinking of early 2020, originally, just depending on when it was approved, but maybe early to mid 2020 was maybe possible, if we were lucky. But the processing didn't happen that way though.
Nick:
Yeah, that's right, so then the pandemic hits, of course in March 2020 and the Australian boarder closed for all temporary visa holders, including prospective marriage visa holders, but not partner visa holders, interestingly enough. But prospective marriage visa holders were barred from entering Australia, so it meant that even if Yndra, your visa was granted, you wouldn't be able to enter Australia on that visa. What were your thoughts at this point?
Yndra:
It was extremely hard knowing that. I felt I had this series of obstacles, one after the other. First, I had to be granted and when would that happen? And then after that, I couldn't even get in. It was really difficult in that time and the waiting also.
Nick:
Yeah. Definitely. Dan, how did you handle being in a long distance relationship for longer than you expected?
Dan:
I was okay. I was convinced that I found my person, so I was just happy. If it was going to take it longer than it just did, and we were both pretty well of that opinion, so it was just keep waiting, keep going. But I think the biggest trick actually, maybe this is an edit, I'm not sure, but abstinence, being comfortable with that. Being comfortable with the idea of... So we didn't get into any freaky online stuff, we just were comfortable with waiting for each other. That really helped.
Nick:
So we received a request for more information in October 2020, asking Yndra to do a health assessment. Did you have any challenges doing the health assessment, Yndra?
Yndra:
No. I didn't have any challenges.
Nick:
Did you have to do a phone interview then?
Yndra:
Yes, they called me and then I had a phone interview. At the time it was really difficult because Venezuelans would know, I didn't have good internet in the house at the time. At that time, there were a lot of electrical outages, so I was very nervous that it would happen when I wouldn't have internet, the electrical outages, how it would affect me. So I ended up giving them the number of one of my aunts, so I went there to call. It was a landline, I didn't have a land because of kind of [Youth Street 00:21:51], I don't know, some random street crime situation, they just cut it off. So then I went there and I had the interview. They asked for a long time, for like a hour.
Nick:
Right, okay. I think the case officer was based in Chile, calling you from Santiago.
Yndra:
Yes. They were calling from Santiago and I was very embarrassed, because I didn't really understand the accent from Chile, even though I was Spanish, but I didn't want to admit it.
Nick:
And what sort of questions did they ask you?
Yndra:
They asked questions about my family, about Dan's family, when we met. They were very incisive asking like, why didn't we visit again after the first visit? That stood out to them, because it had been a while after he visited, we took a while to lodge it.
Dan:
What happened, I had a medical issue that basically took me out for 18 months. It was a pretty serious medical incident, and so we had to wait to get through that and then lodge. That's why it became May '19 when it did.
Nick:
Oh, that's what delayed it. Okay.
Dan:
Yeah.
Yndra:
Yes, [crosstalk 00:23:07] was suspicious.
Dan:
They thought that was suspicious.
Nick:
Did you explain that to them though, Yndra, that Dan had medical problems and that was why there was such a delay?
Yndra:
Yeah. I was very nervous, but I tried to explain the best that I could. Tried to draw them a timeline of the events saying, he came here at this time, then he left at so and so month. We were planning to do this, but then this happened in February, then from February to so and so. Explaining also how the electrical outages and all of that had affected me with the working and all of that, and Dan being recovering from the situation. Yeah, I tried to, I did this very long timeline of events, trying to explain about this gap, what they felt was a suspicious gap.
Dan:
It worked.
Nick:
Yeah. You must have done well. And Dan, were you ever contacted for an interview?
Dan:
No, not at all. No.
Nick:
Okay.
Dan:
Not once.
Yndra:
He wanted to be.
Dan:
I was hoping to be.
Yndra:
I was very excited.
Nick:
To do the interview?
Dan:
Yeah. We thought they would grant soon.
Yndra:
Exactly. I thought that because we got this interview, and they said in the interview that it was in certain stages, and so and so. We became very excited because we thought it was nearing the end, that if they were doing this interview, they were just going to request for the medicals and things like that, and it will be some months, and then it would be granted. But that is not what happened. There was a lot of waiting after that.
Nick:
Was the interview before the pandemic hit?
Dan:
It was, yep.
Yndra:
Yes.
Nick:
It's pretty early on in the process.
Yndra:
Yeah. It was early on, four or five months later or something.
Nick:
Okay. Interesting. So it's quite a good possibility that it would've been granted in 2020 at some point, had the pandemic not hit. Anyway, we don't want to sort of dwell on that too much. So we received another request for more information in March 2021, asking for an updated police clearance and an updated letter from your marriage celebrant. How many times did you end up having to change your wedding date?
Dan:
Three different times.
Nick:
Wow.
Dan:
We've got a lovely celebrant though. She's really great, so she didn't [crosstalk 00:25:39].
Nick:
Then finally, just over two years after the application was lodge, it was granted in May 2021. However, Yndra, you still couldn't enter Australia because you didn't have an exemption. How bitter sweet was that?
Yndra:
Very much. It was very...
Dan:
It was frustrating.
Yndra:
I don't remember exactly the order of events, but I remember it was really tough for me, because my passport, it used to be, I don't know right now, but it used to be so hard to get a passport in Venezuela. It would take ages and then it wouldn't come. It was a whole thing, so then I was really tense about the passport expiring and the passport did expire during the wait. So then I was very tense just before they did that, because the passport was expired, what I was going to do. So I had to get a passport extension or something. Would I get it? I had to be granted to be that, would I be granted at some point soon? And I knew that even if I was granted, then I would need an exemption, so I was like, oh my god, I have these layers and layers of mini obstacles and it was really stressful knowing that.
Nick:
We did discuss lodging an exemption on compelling and compassionate grounds due to Dan's mental health, but then in August 2021, the Department of Home Affairs started granting exemptions to prospective marriage visa holders who had lodged their application at least 12 months prior. And we applied for that and it was granted within a few days. How much of a relief was that?
Dan:
That was amazing. That was really something and we'd just like to pass our thanks onto all those people who rallied so hard for those changes, because a lot of people put in a lot of hours to make those come about.
Yndra:
Yes.
Dan:
Yeah, it was great.
Nick:
The argument was that a partner visa applicant pays the same fee as a prospective marriage visa applicant, but a partner visa holder is automatically exempt, whereas a prospective marriage visa holder wasn't.
Dan:
That's right. They determined it was a real and ongoing relationship, but they weren't giving us the same consideration as someone in the other position. But thankfully for all the people coming through now, that's all changed. That's excellent. That's really great.
Nick:
Yeah. Prospective marriage visa holders are automatically exempt.
Dan:
Ah, wonderful.
Nick:
Pretty much all temporary visa holders are except for visitor visa from everywhere other than Singapore, Korea and Japan. All other visitor visas holders still need an exemption, so whether that be on the basis of family connections, employment, compelling and compassionate reasons, there's a number of different exemption categories.
Dan:
Right. That's a complicated thing.
Nick:
Yeah, it is. That's right. So then I referred you to a travel agent friend of mine who did the very best he could at the time, but he couldn't find anything under a roundabout $14,000 one way from Caracas to Sydney. Yndra, how did you end up getting to Australia?
Yndra:
We were worried about getting out of there, because actually the flights exited Venezuela were a bit limited. And at the time we didn't see... Actually, I believe that the route directly to Australia were very few, because of the situation and this also led to the huge...
Nick:
Ticket costs.
Yndra:
Yeah, the huge ticket costs.
Nick:
Yeah. What it was is because there was a limit on how many people could enter Australia at a time, therefore there was a limit to how many people could go on each flight. And so there was flights operating with say 20 people, when normally they'd probably have over 200. Therefore the flights, they're probably 10 times as much as what they normally would be.
Dan:
Just to cover it. Yeah.
Nick:
And South America, even pre-pandemic, it's not the easiest place to fly to Australia from.
Yndra:
Yes, indeed. So because of that, the flights were extremely expensive, $7,000, $10,000. I read about it online, people were talking about it. And also there weren't direct routes from South America, because there used to be a route via Chile or Argentina, I believe.
Nick:
Yeah. Both at one point.
Yndra:
Yeah. Before, time ago, that's what we thought would be the natural route to get there, because as a Venezuelan, I didn't have... Dan came through, transiting through the USA, but as a Venezuelan, you don't really have that visa. You will have to apply for it and be granted, and it's a bit more difficult. It's not easy to get it, so I didn't have that, so I couldn't go to the USA with those routes. And then since the South American ones weren't happening, we started thinking, oh, maybe it could be through Europe, going through Spain, going through this other thing.
Yndra:
Then eventually we saw this DFAT, they were mentioning the DFAT flights and we became very excited. We managed to get one of the DFAT tickets. We were trying to prepare for anything, but we didn't know that Argentina had a similar restriction, sort of like Australia. [inaudible 00:31:28] also the plane, but it was a bit different. It was the government released certain flights that were allowed to enter into the country, but the airlines sold the tickets before they knew that. So then if you went on the lucky day, you will be canceled, which is what happened to us.
Nick:
How many times was your ticket canceled or your flight canceled?
Yndra:
It was just that time, because we wanted...
Dan:
Just the one.
Yndra:
Yeah, we were trying to make it for the DFAT flight. The DFAT flight was going to depart from Argentina and a lot of people were really mad, because they were saying that why was it departing from Argentina and not Chile, because Chile didn't have that restriction like that? Anyway, I tried really hard to make it happen and to change it and everything, but it couldn't happen. And many, many people were in the same situation across South American. There many Australians that are in South America, because the DFAT flights are for that, and that didn't happen. But luckily a few days later, we saw again, the [Ladies of Ex-traveled 00:32:35], they posted again about their charter flight, which didn't seem so expensive now the second time that we saw it, seeing everything about the current prices, the DFAT fiasco situation, and then we contacted with them. And that will be the flight that will ultimately take me here, the Ex-traveled ladies chart flight from Chile.
Nick:
Okay. And did you take a separate flight from Caracas to Santiago then?
Yndra:
They fixed the entire route for me. From Venezuela at the time, you couldn't do direct flights to Chile or to Colombia, so it had to go through Panama. So they checked a flight from Caracas, not from Caracas, I actually departed from Valencia, a smaller airport, which I felt more comfortable in, because that was my first flight ever.
Dan:
First time on a plane.
Nick:
Wow.
Yndra:
Yeah.
Nick:
What was that like?
Yndra:
It was very nerveracking, because I just assumed it wouldn't work out, that they will stop me, that they would find... That's why I was also intimidated about doing it through Caracas, because I hadn't done it before. It's a very small airport, but people... I don't know right now how it is with the measures, but at the time, it made sense to go the then to Panama. So the routes that they put was like a one flight from Caracas to Panama, and Panama to Colombia, because in Panama I could only transit. Then I stayed overnight in Colombia. Then there was the other leg, a different ticket altogether, so I had to make it to the flight in Colombia. Then it was from Colombia to Chile where I had to transit, I think in Chile it was a 24 hour transit for me, for [inaudible 00:34:31]. So from Colombia to Chile, and then in Chile we took the charter flight, with LATAM. A flight from Chile to Sydney.
Nick:
Okay, and then two weeks in quarantine, and then to Toowoomba.
Dan:
Yeah.
Yndra:
Yes. And then in Sydney when I arrived, the airport was deserted. They took us on a bus to our hotel. I think it's [Nobe Hotel 00:34:56] in Sydney Harbor. It was great. I really liked it. If I forgot I was there, I wouldn't have rather been there first, but it was a really good stay. It was a good hotel. They gave us good food every day, they tried to do Zoom meetings and things start for people to entertain.
Dan:
Keep up morale.
Nick:
Yeah. Between the guests at the hotel?
Yndra:
They tried to make the good out of it, the best they could out of it, which I really appreciate and I really remember them for that. And initially I was in a room that had no... The phone didn't work, and then they had to change me and that's how I got the room with the view.
Nick:
Yeah. Nice.
Yndra:
It was a great view, but at the end, I was a bit cabin fever. I was like, oh my gosh. It really got to me, because you can't open the door. You don't have any windows open.
Nick:
I can imagine that would drive me crazy.
Yndra:
Oh my god, I'm in a bubble. Eventually it gets to you, but they were really nice.
Nick:
Excellent. So the Department of Home Affairs changed the marriage requirement on the prospective marriage visa from nine months from grant, to 15 months from grant. Based off when your visa was granted, it means you've got to August 2022 to get married and apply for a partner visa. What date are you planning on getting married now?
Dan:
Our current Notice of Intended Marriage says the 15th maybe of February, but we're thinking of putting it back a few months just to get things in order for the next visa.
Nick:
Yeah. Fair enough.
Dan:
Just to make it easier for everything to flow together, but currently it's 15th of February, which is just around the corner really. It's not far at all.
Nick:
It's five weeks from now, from the data of recording.
Dan:
Oh my goodness.
Yndra:
Yeah, because no, no, no, [inaudible 00:37:06] marriage, we said we had to change the date three times and you have to get a date that you would think you would be there already, but would also give you time to prepare everything. And we had to no idea, we haven't been granted yet, we didn't know when we would be granted, when I will be here. We tried to calculate and we came to that date, but now that we're here, maybe we will delay it a little bit now knowing that, although we do want to make it sooner, rather than later.
Nick:
It's always a bit of a question for a perspective marriage visa because you have to get married within 15 months of when the visa's granted, but you don't know when the visa's going to be granted, so you sort of have to just estimate the date, and then tell the celebrant that you need some flexibility with them.
Dan:
Yeah, that's right.
Nick:
Beyond marriage, what are your plans for the future together?
Yndra:
Beyond marriage, we just plan to just get more settled in and try new things. We would like to see a bit of Australia if possible.
Dan:
Absolutely.
Yndra:
We'll see how it goes with the restrictions and stuff between states, that would be amazing. And just trying new things, just finally... After waiting so long, it's almost confusing that finally it has happened.
Dan:
Just getting to hang out around the house is pretty awesome at this point, so we'll venture out when the state's open up and see some sites. We're not planning on having kids, so we'll just enjoy life really. That's the main thing.
Nick:
Fantastic. Yndra, do you plan on eventually applying for Australian citizenship?
Yndra:
Yeah, because Dan and I, we think maybe it'll be good to have the same passport, the same things for future travels or things like that. The truth is I do plan to stay permanently, so it'll make sense.
Nick:
Yeah. I think having an Australian passport does make it a lot easier to travel, because there's a lot more countries where you don't need visas for them.
Yndra:
Yeah. We will have the same requirements, for visas and transits and things like that, instead of how it is now.
Nick:
Yep, exactly. Unless you still have a Venezuelan passport and you travel on that, but I think certain countries, it might be easier if you're on a Venezuelan passport. Maybe in south America, but certainly Europe and countries in Asia, it's easier to travel on an Australian passport. And you should be eligible for Australian citizenship in around about three and a half years.
Dan:
Right, okay.
Nick:
It just depends on how long it takes for the permanent visa to be granted, so the next step is to apply for the partner visa once you're married. And then two years after that application's been lodged, stage two of the partner visa application gets lodged, and then it might take another six to 12 months for the second stage to process. And then once that visas granted, that's when you become a permanent resident, and then you should be eligible for citizenship 12 months from that date, as long as you've been in Australia for four years in total.
Dan:
So it's four years or after this process, whichever is going to happen first. Hey, that's fantastic.
Nick:
So as long as you've been in Australia for four years in total.
Yndra:
I see. From arrival, from now?
Nick:
Correct. Yep.
Yndra:
Does now count for the four years?
Nick:
It does. The time on the perspective marriage visa counts towards the four years.
Yndra:
Nice.
Dan:
That's awesome.
Nick:
Thanks for joining us today, Dan and Yndra. You've had a really sort of longwinded story with delays in lodging the perspective marriage visa application in the first place, and then COVID hitting, and then the visa been granted, but still not being able to get into Australia because not having an exemption. And then the issues with the flights and the journey from Panama to Columbia to Chile, and then to Australia. But yeah, really appreciate your time today and thanks for joining us on the Journey to Oz podcast.
Yndra:
Thanks to you.
Dan:
You're very welcome, Nick. Thanks for being a great agent. You did really well, mate.
Nick:
Thank you.
Dan:
Thanks for that. Thanks for your work.
Yndra:
Yeah.
Evan:
Thank you for taking the time, Nick, to share Yndra and Dan's story. I love with them about how Dan had to ask her parents for permission to marry Yndra amid all those communication barriers. But then the fact that they thought that Dan was going to be taking back to Australia in that trip itself, so they had a nice surprise when she got the stick around for a lot longer.
Nick:
Yeah. It ended up being almost three years instead of one.
Evan:
And that's the thing, these prospective marriage visas have been around for a long time. They're not necessarily new, as much as they might be a new concept of some of our listeners, but what are the interesting variables in this is, aspects like hotel quarantine, delayed processing times. The fact that in the past, it could have been such a quicker process, but they weren't an exempt person to allow Yndra to come to Australia for such a time. And there was the talk, as they said, about the efforts people put in place to have that change come about, so I think it was an absolutely fantastic story. And to be honest, I have had a lot of clients who have gone through hotel quarantine and it sounds like a horrible thing to go to, but I always find these stories really fascinating and everyone's two weeks in a hotel is very unique as well.
Nick:
Yeah, for sure. The other thing that they did was they changed the time by which a couple had to get married before applying for a partner of visa. So it was originally nine months, and they changed it to 15 months because of the pandemic, so it'd be interesting to see whether they change that back or not. I suspect they'll probably just leave it as it is, but who knows? They may change it back as well.
Evan:
You'd like to hope, because nine months used to sound like such a long time, but I know a lot of people which they've gone to get married four or five times with rescheduling over the past few years because of nothing to do with migration, just various lockdowns. [crosstalk 00:43:38] density limits with restrictions and social distancing, so I think hopefully the change of extending nine months to be 15 months, to go from being a perspective marriage to actually getting married, hopefully that process is one that will stick around.
Nick:
Yeah, definitely. As of mid-December, prospective marriage visa holders can now enter Australia without needing an exemption, as long as they're double vaccinated, they don't need to quarantine, depending on the state. This is good, we've actually now seen more people starting to inquire about prospective marriage visas again, and currently going through the process with a couple of different clients. So if you are interested in applying for a prospective marriage visa, feel free to visit hansenmigration.com.au. That's H-A-N-S-E-N migration.com.au and click the free consultation button to book a consultation.
Evan:
As an immigration podcast it would be remiss of us to not address the recent Novak Djokovic visa cancellation saga.
Nick:
So just to give some background, early in the pandemic he made comments about being opposed to be vaccinated in order to travel. In June 2020 as Europe was mostly in lockdown and there were no sporting events he organised his own tournament and invited several top european players. They didn't follow any covid protocols and it ended up being a superspreader event where he himself tested positive for COVID. He was granted a subclass 408 temporary activity visa in November. He then contracted COVID in mid December 2022 and attended several public after that. He was a granted an vaccination exemption to enter Victorian on the basis that he had tested to COVID within the prior six months. He arrived in Australia on late on the 5th of January and was taken into questioning regarding his vaccination status. His visa was cancelled on the basis that he might be a risk to 'the health, safety or good order of the Australian community or a segment of the Australian community'. He was then placed into immigration detention pending removal from Australia. The decision to cancel his visa was overturned by the Federal Circuit court on the 10th of January on the grounds that he was denied procedural fairness. Then 4 days later the immigration minister Alex Hawke cancelled his visa again on the grounds that he's a profile unvaccinated person who has a history of flaunting COVID rules, and that his presence in Australia may be counterproductive to efforts at vaccination by others in Australia, which may be a risk to the Health of the Australian community. On the 16th of January the three judges in the Federal Court upheld the decision to cancel his visa and he was removed from Australia shortly after. He was ordered to pay all of the court costs. Evan what are your thoughts on the visa cancellation?
Evan:
It's certainly a topic which is polarising, and what I can comment on is the manner of consideration. Instead of being on the next flight home, Novak was allowed an extension of time, hence he was in Immigration Detention. I feel he is very fortunate but also the fame, money, and media ruckus would have assisted in having a full bench of 3 justices arranged for the Full Court hearing not only with such short notice, but also on a Sunday.
Nick:
I'll preface this by saying, I'm not a big Novak fan and I couldn't care less whether or not he plays in the Australian Open. I'm also pro vaccination. But I don't agree with the decision. On one hand an overwhelming majority of Australians were in favour of the decision according to newspaper poles and social media so some might say because of that it was the right decision. But that's just the point, approximately 80% of Australians have been double vaccinated and over 30% have received a third booster shot. So the idea that a tennis player who was travelling to Australia to play in a tennis tournament is going to suddenly affect the vaccine rollout is absurd. If he was travelling to Australia specifically to hold anti vax rallies then that would be a different story. We have seen cancellations like this in the past, for example far right British commentator Katie Hopkins who was supposed to appear on Australian Big Brother, had her visa cancelled after boasting about flouting infection controls whilst in hotel qauratine in Sydney. US Pick up artist Julien Blanc was travelling to Australia to do a series of seminars that promoted abusive behaviour towards woman, had his visa cancelled in 2014. Another US pick up artist Jeff Allen had his visa cancelled in 2016 for similar reasons. But Novak was here to play in a Tennis tournament and was not even consulted by Alex Hawke as to his current views on vaccination before his visa was cancelled. Most of Novak's anti vax comments that Hawke refers to in the cancellation letter were made before his visa was granted, so why didn't they just refuse to grant him a visa in the first place? Instead it's turned into this massive saga that is quite frankly an embarrassment to the Australian government.
Evan:
We should also mention that Djokovic was not deported from Australia as widely reported in the media, he was removed from Australia. Deportation and removal may sound similar but they are quite different. Only serious criminals and person who are a risk to national security get deported from Australia. Regular persons who are illegally in Australia, maybe they overstayed their visas or had their visa cancelled are removed from Australia. Deportation requires a specific deportation order leading to an arrest, whereas removal does not. Persons who have been deported from Australia will find it very difficult to ever return to Australia in some cases they can never return. Whereas persons who are removed will face one year ban on returning to Australia, unless there are compelling or compassionate circumstances.
Nick:
Any person who leaves Australia whilst unlawful or whilst holding a Bridging Visa C, D, or E is subject to a 3 year ban on returning on certain types of visas, which in the case of Djokovic incluesd the subclass 408 temporary activity visa. As far as I'm aware the three year ban doesn't apply to permanent visas, for example I had a client who overstayed their visa by 10 years, left Australia, applied for an offshore partner visa, then returned within 12 months and is now a permanent resident. Either way the person being removed or deported must pay the costs, which can be substantial.
Evan:
So Novak Djokovic is now subject to a three year ban on returning to Australia on a temporary visa, so his lawyers will need to argue that either:
(i) compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or
(ii) compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen;
justify the granting of the visa within 3 years after the departure.
Nick:
Moving on from Djokovic, we should also touch on the Bridging Visa B situation where holders are not automatically exempt from entering Australia. In December the Australia government announced that most temporary visa holders would automatically be exempt from the border restrictions, this did not include Bridging Visa B holders. I read an article today about a British woman who applied for a working holiday visa onshore and was holding a bridging visa a, she then applied for a bridging visa b to travel to the UK to attend her brother in law's funeral. She was not granted an exemption to return to Australia on compelling and compassionate grounds. The Australian government are currently refunding student visa and working holiday visa application fees to encourage young people to travel to Australia and work, given the increasing number of COVID cases and labour shortages in the workforce. In this instance the woman held a working holiday visa and has applied for another working holiday, she has work rights whilst on a bridging visa, so it's quite ridiculous that she is not automatically exempt from border restrictions. This is yet another own goal by the Australia government when it comes to handling the pandemic.
Evan:
Now to some good news. Immigration minister Alex Hawke recently announced that Australia will prioritise more than 15,000 Afghan refugees through its humanitarian and family reunion programs over the next four years.
Nick:
We discussed the advocate groups in episode 5 calling for more visa places for Afghan refugees, so it's good that some movement has been made there.
Evan:
Thanks to listening of the Journey to Oz podcast. If you've liked what you've heard, please subscribe, and also leave us a review. We release a new episode every second Tuesday, so please stay tuned.
Speaker 5:
The Journey to Oz podcast is produced by Nick Hansen from Hansen Migration, migration agent registration number 1679147 and Evan Bishop from Worldly Migration, migration agent registration number 1679414. Any information discussed in this podcast is made available for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. We do not make any guarantee or accept any responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of any of the information discussed. You should obtain advice from a registered migration agent or an immigration lawyer before acting on any of the content discussed in this podcast. You can find a list of registered migration agents by visiting mara.gov.au. The information contained within this podcast may not be reproduced without our prior written consent. In the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of land throughout Australia and pay respect to their elders. We extend that respect to all Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders today. Thank you for listening.