Holiday Movie Discussion

For December we are doing another movie discussion. This time we focus on holiday films and the wonderful, warm feelings of nostalgia they bring us. Much like our October discussion, it’s very free-form and fun so we hope you enjoy this break from our usual, information-packed episodes.

Transcript

Michael Pierry
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Hamden Library Podcast. I am your host, Michael Pierry, and this month we are doing another movie discussion. Much like our October discussion, it's very freeform and fun. So we hope you enjoy this break from our usual information packed episodes. But before we dive into our discussion, Mike Wheatley would like to talk to us about one holiday movie in particular.

Mike Wheatley
It's that time of the year again, when we trot out all the golden holiday classics like "A Charlie Brown Christmas" or so many of the variations of Charles Dickens' "Christmas Carol", or "It's A Wonderful Life". In 1983, almost 40 years ago, Bob Clark -- the director of such films as "Black Christmas", "Porky's" 1 and 2, and the award winning "Tribute" with Jack Lemmon -- released a project he had been working on for years, partially based on chapters from the 1966 book "In God We Trust: All Others Pay Cash" by Jean Shepard that first appeared in an issue of Playboy Magazine. The movie was called "A Christmas Story", and it starred Darren McGavin, Melinda Dillon and Peter Billingsley.

Like Mark Twain, Will Rogers, Paul Harvey, David Sedaris, Erma Bombeck, Nora Ephron or Charles Carroll, and all the other great Americans storyteller, humorists, Jean Shepherd's words live on because, "The best humor has at his base, a ready understanding of human nature". As quoted in "The Encyclopedia of American Humorists". This has never been more true than in "A Christmas Story". It is a story that has become plays -- musical and non -- and done across the US by community and professional theatres. In 1997, TNT the television station, began broadcasting it for a 24 hour period Christmas Eve to Christmas day evening. This year, HBO created a sequel -- not to be confused by the bad 2012 direct to video "Christmas Story 2" that is seldom discussed -- called "A Christmas Story Christmas", in which the children, now grown are visiting their recently widowed mom for Christmas. A Christmas Story House Museum in Cleveland, Ohio, where much of the movie was filmed, is for sale if you're interested, or you can book an overnight stay.

So, what is it about this slice of growing up in Hammond, Indiana during the 1940s that makes it so relatable for me? Why is this one of my favorite holiday watches? I just finished watching it again for the umpteenth time in prep for this podcast, and I watched in particular the careful attention to details from Shepherd's words. There are references to the 1939 "Wizard of Oz", the radio show "Little Orphan Annie" and "Red Rider", a Saturday matinee serial that started in 1940. They all feel perfectly placed, not some sentimental "nostalgia for nostalgia" moment.

My memories of Christmas in the 1950s and early 60s were filled with father's compensation for his lost youth during the Depression. His children would have great Christmases, even if he had to go to into debt. I have a picture of me sitting on his lap dressed as Santa at a local department store. The scene where Ralphie and Randy wake up Christmas morning and storm downstairs with bleary eyed parents who had obviously been wrapping presents all night? Straight out of my childhood. We had a real tree for a while, until my father found the perfect fake tree that became our tradition. Lights in the window, carols by Johnny Mathis, Bing Crosby, Julie Andrews, and a slew of popular orchestral ensembles fill the air with Christmas carols. We could open one present before Mass and play with whatever was unwrapped, but it wasn't until a couple of hours later that the gifts were unwrapped one at a time. And like in "Christmas Story", the ones that had been near the top of our list were hidden somewhere behind the tree. A Christmas Story for me, is definitely a slice of my childhood. The setting is about a decade or so off, but just as true.

Michael Pierry
How are you guys doing?

Mike Wheatley
We're doing great.

Alyssa Bussard
Good, how are you?

Michael Pierry
I guess we could begin by talking about what movies kind of help you get into that spirit of the season.

Alyssa Bussard
Ooh, I have a tradition.

Michael Pierry
Oh, you have a traditional Alyssa?

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, two traditions, actually. So, every Thanksgiving, we watch "Planes, Trains and Automobiles", because how can you not, right?

Michael Pierry
Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
But often while I'm cooking I have on different, you know, holiday movies. I've always done those "25 days of Christmas" situation. But every time I put up my tree -- and I'll tell you sometimes I put up my tree very early by other people's standards -- I always watch "Muppet Christmas Carol".

Michael Pierry
Oh.

Alyssa Bussard
Every time like, that has to go on. Like my husband's like, hold on. I didn't put the movie on yet. Think he knows. And my brother and I used to watch it when we would decorate the tree growing up. So it's just very special to me. So when I watched a couple days ago, I sent my brother and my dad both a picture of like, the singing vegetables.

Michael Pierry
Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
And they both knew exactly what it was like what part it was in the movie. So I do that. That's that's like my special thing that I do whenever I decorate.

Michael Pierry
That's great.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
I like that.

Alyssa Bussard
I always try to listen to the to the audio book around this time, too, just because, you know, it helps get into the mood of the season, but so I like I said I always watch "A Muppets Christmas Carol", but there was a new one that was made, and it has Jim Carrey in it.

Mike Wheatley
Yes.

Alyssa Bussard
And it was good. But the first ghost that comes scares me.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
I'm in my 30s and I sent a little picture of the one from "Muppet Christmas Carol", because I'm like this little weird baby. And then the one -- I think it's the voice -- the one in the Jim Carrey one, too? The voice is just like, I don't know. I think about it all the time. [laughing] 

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
So bizarre. But yeah, I always try to listen, but you know, not to go off topic from our movie discussion, but one thing I always do around this time, too, is I read Victorian Christmas ghost stories.

Michael Pierry
Ooh.

Alyssa Bussard
They're fun. And there's like a couple. There are a couple of different collections that you can get. And I -- it's just totally, you know, my vibe. So I just really, really love it. And I just got a collection that was like, I think it's called, I don't know, "Creepy Stories for Chilly Nights" or something. And I'm very excited to start reading it because it's just something about those old school ghost stories really, really speaks to me.

Mike Wheatley
Oh, yeah.

Michael Pierry
I mean, "Christmas Carol" is a Victorian ghost story.

Alyssa Bussard
Exactly, exactly.

Michael Pierry
It's also the story, I believe, more than any other that kind of made Christmas what it is today, sort of got people interested in in celebrating it.

Michael Pierry
The spirit of giving.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, the spirit of giving.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah. And Dickens was desperate to come up with a story and the story is that he did it basically to, you know, because he had a little contract. He needed to produce a story, you know?

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah. I don't think he quite expected it to take on like it did.

Alyssa Bussard
Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Besides that one. I would say that I always go to -- this is so weird now that I'm thinking about it because I was gonna say "The Grinch" with Jim Carrey, and I'm like, how many Jim Carrey movies do I love?

Mike Wheatley
Right? I'm still an original animator. You know, the animated "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas"?

Alyssa Bussard
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's great.

Mike Wheatley
You know, yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, that's one of my favorite ones too. But there's just, it's just, uh, I don't know. It's funny and it's just easy to watch. A lot of these are just, like, really easy movies. I feel like it's just, you know, that's what it's all about, like, just, I don't know. It's like, they're soothing or it's just nice to have on and just the whole spirit of the time, I guess. It's just, it's just nice. I personally don't get into like, the Hallmark ones, but my friends do, but that being said, last year, I watched "A Castle for Christmas". And it has -- oh, who is it from "The Princess Bride" Cary Elwes and -- I think -- Brooke Shields, I think, and it was like Hallmarkesque.

Mike Wheatley
Oh my God.

Alyssa Bussard
But it was so good.

Mike Wheatley
[Laughter}

Alyssa Bussard
It was so fun. It was on Netflix. So what really wasn't Hallmark, but it was like Hallmark-y, you know?

Mike Wheatley
Right.

Alyssa Bussard
And it was it was great. I loved it.

Michael Pierry
I think--

Alyssa Bussard
What about you have any other movies that, you know? Do you have any discussions with people about movies that are supposed to be holiday movies like so? I always watched "Nightmare Before Christmas", and people are like, "that's a Halloween movie". And I'm like "it says Christmas in the title".

Mike Wheatley
It does.

Alyssa Bussard
You know? And I think it's I watch it all year round anyway, but then there's other ones like, "Die Hard", you know, and "Gremlins", and people are like, "those are Christmas movies".

Mike Wheatley
Right? And "Black Christmas"?

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, I don't know. What do you think about that?

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, it's amazing. I work at a video store. And this time of the year horror films are up. A lot of people with the, you know, the New Year's especially, has become a real horror film celebration.

Alyssa Bussard
Really? That's interesting.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
I wonder why?

Mike Wheatley
I don't know. I don't know. I guess, you know, like, the, the figure of death with his big sickle, you know, like, for the old year, and then, you know, coming into the new year --

Alyssa Bussard
That's fair.

Mike Wheatley
-- and maybe there's a certain, you know, kind of the dying of the old year aspect? It's the middle of winter, so it's a dark time.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah. You know,

Mike Wheatley
you know, Europe has its, you know, Krampus and, you know, like it's, it's a, you know, Saint Nicholas's dark brother, who I can't remember his name now. But, you know, there's so many kind of winter traditions and, you know, kind of dark kind of folk aspect. So I think that it's actually maybe in keeping, there are a number of horror films that are set in the snow.

Alyssa Bussard
That's true.

Mike Wheatley
A whole list of them. And so, you know, winter is a dark time.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, that's actually very true. Yeah, so I -- speaking of maybe dark times, there's a new movie coming out. I am so invested. It's so silly. It has David Harbour. It's called "Violent Night". I, I cannot wait to see it. But it looks so like, bad, but good, if that makes sense. 

Mike Wheatley
Right.

Alyssa Bussard
I'm pumped.

Mike Wheatley
He plays a dark Christmas, Santa Claus character, kind of?

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah. So I think it's like, something happens, I want to say where there's like, you know, someone's family, like, I don't know, if it's like something happens, like they someone takes over the house. And they're abducting the child maybe or something like that. And it's basically like a vigilante Santa. And he's just like, so like, it's just, it's bizarre, but I just think it looks so awesome. It's only in theaters, and I'm like this might make me go back to the theater that I haven't been to since 2020.

Mike Wheatley
It's not streaming.

Alyssa Bussard
No, I thought it would be too but now it's in theaters.

Mike Wheatley
Oh.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah. So

Mike Wheatley
Good for theaters.

Alyssa Bussard
I know. I know. Yeah. So what about you, Mike? Do you have any traditional movies that you watch around this time?

Michael Pierry
Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know about you. But I always have to watch "Christmas Story", either around Thanksgiving, or shortly thereafter.

Alyssa Bussard
I've never seen it.

Michael Pierry
No, I can't believe it actually. Well, this could be the year for you. It'd be the year this could be the year. I can't imagine what it must be like coming in as an adult to see it. But I think it would probably hold up pretty well.

Alyssa Bussard
This is the one with a lamp, right? Yes. Okay. I might have to watch it.

Michael Pierry
Yes. And there's a lot of good, it's very quotable. Um, the other one, the other big one for me is the old stop motion Rankin Bass TV movies like "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer"--

Alyssa Bussard
Oh, the best ones. Yes.

Michael Pierry
And also "Frosty the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming to Town", "The Life and Times of Santa Claus"--

Alyssa Bussard
I love them--

Michael Pierry
Is a huge one for me, because I always I love the idea of Santa Claus joining the ranks of the immortals and of course, it's based on that book by by Frank Baum, right? L Frank Baum.

Alyssa Bussard
Is it based on that?

Michael Pierry
Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
Okay. So one of my favorite authors, I never knew that. I mean, I read obviously, I've read the book, but I didn't know that the movie was based on it. How cool that makes total sense, though. Now that I'm thinking about the plot of both. That's cool.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously very foreshortened version of it. But--

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
It is. And I really enjoyed. I mean, that's the, for me, it's the nostalgia factor. So the fact that you enjoyed the movies when you were a little kid, and then you come back to them, and you get the same kind of warm feelings, that's kind of what it's all about for me when it comes to -- I mean, I like watching new ones. You watched one last year with Anna Kendrick called "Noelle"--

Alyssa Bussard
"Noelle" is very good.

Michael Pierry
And that was a lot of fun.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
But um, for me, it's all about the nostalgia. Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, I just think, I don't know. It's, it's so there's something about this time where it's like, even if it's a bad movie, I feel like it's still a good movie. I don't know. It's like, "Christmas Chronicles" was very good. I just really like the just the whole, I don't know, the warmth of the season or something about it and the ability to maybe take a rest, you know, and watch something and it's just, it's a good feeling.

Michael Pierry
It is. Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
All my decor at home is nice and cozy right now the lights up and everything. So it's just like very chill.

Michael Pierry
Molly's family introduced me to "Emmet Otter's Jug-Band Christmas".

Alyssa Bussard
Oh yeah, I saw that. One of the theaters.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, yeah, I saw it in the theater, too. They were playing in one of the theaters.

Alyssa Bussard
No, I was like I saw like the play.

Michael Pierry
Oh, the play. Okay.

Alyssa Bussard
Where was I? I don't remember where it was. But it's somewhere in Connecticut. And I it was very, very cool. Very fun.

Michael Pierry
Oh, nice.

Alyssa Bussard
There's actually if you ever get time, there's some really funny bloopers from that.

Michael Pierry
Oh, really?

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah. Like they stay in character. And it's just, it's really good.

Michael Pierry
That's funny.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
My brother has a film that is an annual tradition for him that actually didn't get great reviews when it came out, and it's called "Mixed Nuts". It was written by Nora Ephron and Steve Martin and just a wonderful cast. Tom Hanks' future wife was in it and a whole cast of interesting characters, Madeline Kahn.

Michael Pierry
Oh, well, I love Madeline Kahn, so I might have to see this, then.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah. It's set on the West Coast, and it's set on on the beach, and it's all palm trees and, you know, people trying create a Christmas around them. And--

Michael Pierry
Is it like Southern California or something?

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, yeah, it's Venice Beach. I think kind of--

Michael Pierry
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
You know, that kind of environment. A lot of fun. We watch it every year and I'm amazed that of how it was received originally. Part of it is because it's a remake of a French film. 

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
Similar to a lot and I think a lot of the movie snobs basically turned it down.

Alyssa Bussard
Oh, yeah.

Mike Wheatley
Because it's not the same, you know, and you know, kind of retreads the plot a little from the original French, but--

Alyssa Bussard
Well, I love Steve Martin. I love Madeline Kahn. So that sounds--

Michael Pierry
Yeah, for sure.

Alyssa Bussard
Is Adam Sandler in it?

Mike Wheatley
Yes. Adam Sandler. Yeah, yep. Adam Sandler has a great-- and I should have written down the list of actors in it because there's an amazing list of actors who. My brother could name you everybody in it.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah. That's pretty good. I'll have to watch that one this year. That sounds pretty neat.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, yeah. "Mixed Nuts" is definitely a you know, a fun watch. Surprising cameos.

Alyssa Bussard
Well, I love those.

Michael Pierry
So, since we were talking about this movie, and it was not well received, do we have any movies that we personally dislike? Christmas movies that we've like--

Alyssa Bussard
Oh, yeah.

Michael Pierry
Go ahead.

Alyssa Bussard
I -- oh my gosh, what's it called? Okay, I hate this movie and people are going to be gasping. Our audience is gonna gasp.

Mike Wheatley
Okay.

Alyssa Bussard
What is that film, with a stupid train and Tom Hanks narrates it?

Mike Wheatley
Oh.

Michael Pierry
"The Polar Express".

Alyssa Bussard
Oh my god, I hate it. I hate. I don't know why, but I hate it.

Mike Wheatley
I know so many people that adore this movie.

Alyssa Bussard
So many people do my children are appalled. I every time I've done I'm like, turn it off. I don't know what it is. It makes me angry for no reason. I just hate it so much.

Michael Pierry
Well, I saw it in the theaters. I think I saw it, like, 3D or something. And--

Mike Wheatley
Oh my god.

Michael Pierry
I thought it was kind of okay, like kind of boring actually.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
It didn't really. I was like, "this is okay". It didn't really blew me away. But I didn't hate it either. So I haven't seen it since. But I was pretty lukewarm about it. But I know a lot of people really, really like it.

Mike Wheatley
I think there's a disconnect between the the technique, the animation, which was revolutionary at the time, and the emotions and the way that there's there's kind of a slight kind of coldness to it.

Michael Pierry
Yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah. It freaks me out. I hate it.

Mike Wheatley
Right. And I can understand that. And I don't think we're alone. I think there's--

Alyssa Bussard
Oh, good.

Mike Wheatley
There's a whole group of people. I admire the techniques in it.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
And, I mean, you have to admit there are some kind of gloriously kind of beautiful shots, you know, like, the way that is constructed, but it feels like it is, you know, mechanical, almost.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Mike Wheatley
But yeah, I'm not a huge fan.

Alyssa Bussard
Good. That makes me feel better.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, but I know. I know how popular it is.

Alyssa Bussard
Did you have one Michael, that you hated?

Michael Pierry
Not really-- Well, the I think "The Santa Clause".

Alyssa Bussard
Oh my god. I love "The Santa Clause". But I am now so mad about it.

Michael Pierry
It's pretty bad.

Alyssa Bussard
No. Love it.

Michael Pierry
No, Tim Allen.

Alyssa Bussard
No, Tim Allen's horrible. 

Michael Pierry
He's terrible.

Alyssa Bussard
But the movie's so good.

Michael Pierry
How was it good? Explain it to me.

Alyssa Bussard
I don't know. I just love it so much. 

Mike Wheatley
[Laughter]

Michael Pierry
He kills Santa.

Alyssa Bussard
He accidentally kills Santa. Santa falls, he doesn't mean to kill him.

Michael Pierry
And the whole premise of the movie is that like, he's got this death clause. And it's just so bad. And him being like him being--

Mike Wheatley
The Santa Clause. It's the Santa Clause

Michael Pierry
Exactly.

Alyssa Bussard
You know, I never really got that until a couple years ago. And then I was like, oh, it's spelled different.

Michael Pierry
The relationship with the kid and everything. It's so strange. And the wife?

Alyssa Bussard
But then when he's Santa, he's a better dad. And then like, he's a really good dad and the second movie, the third movie, let's not even -- let's just not go there.

Mike Wheatley
[Laugher]

Alyssa Bussard
But now there's a show and I can't stand him--

Michael Pierry
There's a show?

Alyssa Bussard
But it's like, I feel like I have to watch the show. And I'm just, I'm having a very hard time. Okay, it's a little bit of a crisis.

Michael Pierry
I really don't like "The Santa Clause" and would not watch the sequels because I didn't enjoy. I just found the whole thing so irritating. He was just, it was just hard to get through. I mean, I was like, I watched it more like out of morbid curiosity than

Alyssa Bussard
I'd probably watch it five times a year.

Michael Pierry
Jeez.

Alyssa Bussard
Like sometimes I watch it in August.

Michael Pierry
I worry about you.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah, I don't know what it is. But now he's not a very nice person. So now I'm like, Oh, God--

Mike Wheatley
I know.

Alyssa Bussard
You ruined it for me.

Mike Wheatley
Oh.

Alyssa Bussard
And I think there's a really, like in the show. I heard that there's a really ridiculous comment, something about "oh, we're not supposed to say Merry Christmas anymore" or something. And I'm just like, "Okay, now I can't watch this". Like, he's ruined it for me, and it makes me very mad. But it's okay, because we still have Muppets, though. It's all right.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
Yeah. So, Mike, do you have any movies that you don't like for Christmas or holiday movies? Or are you just like--

Mike Wheatley
I don't know if I have anything? I don't know. I think I've seen "Elf" once too often. I don't know if I can do "Elf" again. 

Alyssa Bussard
Yep, I'm there. I'm right there with you.

Mike Wheatley
But it's not a bad movie.

Alyssa Bussard
No.

Mike Wheatley
And it's a lot of fun, but it doesn't -- and I was amazed when I watched "Christmas Story" how much I actually adored it. The this year it just kind of really grabbed me and I've seen it so many times. So it's I think it's a strange kind of phenomenon. I'm not a fan of the really sappy, you know, Harlequin kind of, you know, Hallmark Christmas movies.

Alyssa Bussard
Okay, but you should watch "A Castle for Christmas". Okay?

Mike Wheatley
"A Castle For Christmas". Oh, yeah.

Alyssa Bussard
That's the one that's on Netflix. Anyway, yeah. I'm glad that we could chat about all the good nostalgia.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah, yeah.

Michael Pierry
But did we figure it out? I mean, what else do we need to? I mean, did we determine what what qualifies as a as a Christmas movie or a holiday movie? Because I think, did we mention "Frozen"? Like, "Frozen" is obviously going to be something you're going to want to watch during this time of year.

Alyssa Bussard
I mean, I watched it all year, but--

Michael Pierry
But yeah, you can watch it anytime. And, you know, "Gremlins", you know, "Die Hard" movies like that. They have Christmas stuff going on, but you can watch them any time. 

Alyssa Bussard
Mmmhmm.

Michael Pierry
So does it have to be, you know, Santa centric for it to be a Christmas movie? Does it have to have some kind of religious overtone to it? What do we think?

Alyssa Bussard
No, I think that's a very personal question. I've gotten into debates about this with people. So--

Michael Pierry
It is very personal.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah

Michael Pierry
I agree. I think it's, if it's a holiday movie to you, if it gets to -- if it gives you joy, or it gets you through the season, then it counts for me.

Mike Wheatley
Absolutely.

Alyssa Bussard
I think so too.

Michael Pierry
All right. Well, it was was great talking to you guys.

Alyssa Bussard
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
And I know we'll do it again. Another time.

Mike Wheatley
Yeah.

Michael Pierry
Happy holidays.

Mike Wheatley
Happy holidays.

Michael Pierry
That's all the time we have. Next month. We'll be talking about library advocacy, and why it is so necessary. We'll see you then. If you enjoyed this podcast, please like us and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai