Creativity!

This month on the podcast, we talk with Connecticut-based artist Adam Wallenta and his son Makana about creating their graphic novel "Punk Taco." We've also got a roundtable discussion with three musicians on the library staff about how they think about their own creative practices and an interview with the heads of Hamden's Arts Commission and the Department of Arts, Culture, Recreation and Wellness. And lest we forget, in May we celebrate another kind of creativity - motherhood! Mike Wheatley talks about his favorite cinema moms.

Transcript

Michael Pierry
Hello and welcome to the Hamden Library Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Pierry. And this month we're talking about creativity. First, we've got an interview with multitalented Connecticut artists, Adam Wallenta and his son Makana. The creators of the all ages graphic novel series "Punk Taco". I spoke with them about their creative process, working with Chuck D, and got their advice for aspiring creators. Ariana Davis talked to Hamden Director of Arts, Culture, Recreation and Wellness, Karen Bibbins and Lushonda Howard, chair of the Hamden Arts Commission about the MLK 39 mural project that is already underway. Mike Wheatley celebrates Mother's Day with his list of favorite films about amazing moms. And finally, Ryan Keeler, Dave Scanlon and I all sat down and talked about composing and performing music. It was just like dancing about architecture, but more fun.

Michael Pierry
Adam Wallenta is a publisher, writer, illustrator, editor, teacher, MC and father. He founded Adam Wallenta Entertainment to help bring new, independent, creator-owned projects to life. Adam has illustrated over 50 children's books, numerous comics, graphic novels, and illustrated album art for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame musicians such as Public Enemy and Lloyd Price, among many others. His latest project is "Punk Taco", a graphic novel series for all ages, co created with his son Makana. volumes one and two are out now. Adam and Makana, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here.

Adam Wallenta
Thank you for having us.

Michael Pierry
So I want to start off with Adam. You've worked on a lot of really interesting projects, comic books, comic con art, album covers, book illustrations. So besides "Punk Taco", what are some of your favorite things you've worked on? And what made them so enjoyable?

Adam Wallenta
I kind of base all these, you know, anytime someone asked that question, it's basically based on time periods, right. So, you know, when I was first starting out, and I was in college, I was an intern at Marvel Comics. And when I got my first professional job, that's always going to be memorable. So I was an intern and another freelancer had not done their job properly. And they -- my editors -- were in desperate need of someone to color an entire comic book -- which was 32 pages -- over a weekend. So it was Friday afternoon. And they were scrambling because the other freelancer missed Mr. Deadline, or actually just neglected it. And I raised my hand and said, "I can do it". And my editors kind of looked at each other. And they're like, "Okay". So they gave it to me, and I took it home that night, and, you know, worked all weekend to finish the job. And just like that, I became a professional colorist at Marvel Comics. So that one in particular always stands out. Because of you know, that was the start of my career, basically. And my editor, Mike Rockwoods, I'm still friends with to this day, he's not an editor at Marvel anymore. But you know, we, it was a lifelong friendship, that that began basically there. Years later, I got to work with Public Enemy, which is one of my favorite bands of all time. And I've also been in the music industry for some time, but because of my experience in Marvel, I had, I was talking to Chuck D, I -- just real quick, I'm also a musician. So I was on tour with Public Enemy. And I was talking to Chuck and I told him about when I was at Marvel Comics, there was a music division. And they were working on a Public Enemy comic book. And then the music division, I guess, folded. And the comic never came out. And I told Chuck, "you know what, we should do this comic together". And he looked at me and he's like, "Okay, let's do it". And just like that, the Public Enemy comic book was born. And we worked on that for us for several years together. So that's also a memorable job that I worked on, which, you know, to this day, you know, I feel very proud of.

And then, a few years after that I got to actually work with you know, I met my fiancee, my wife and my fiancee, we got married, and she was a professor at Yale University. And she had gotten a grant by the National Science Foundation to do outreach projects. So one of the ideas that she had was to create a comic book for the local New Haven school system to help kids learn about science and read and everything like that. So I got to work with her on a comic book. Can we wrote? We did we were funded for two issues. And the first one was on plate tectonics. She's a geophysicist. So we did plate tectonics. And then we did one on the moon. And so that was exciting for me because, you know, it began, you know, it laid the foundation for working as a family projects, which then later went into my son who was is my greatest project and you know, "Punk Taco". Working with him has been, you know, a dream come true. So, all those different projects are probably the highlight of my career. I, I'll take it back to before Makana. I created punk taco truck, it asked me to illustrate a Public Enemy album cover, and what kind of pose for that album cover? Wow. So he's actually I use him as photo reference for it. The name of the album was "The Evil Empire of Everything", right? And the concept was that there was a baby on the cover and all these different hands and arms are pulling out them in all different directions, you know, symbolizing, like, you know, corporate America and all these other things that, you know, try to influence our children. So he is the baby on the Public Enemy cover. So, while he might be a little bit, he's probably unrecognizable to most I know that that's his, you know, pudgy little face on the cover.

Michael Pierry
That's amazing. I love so. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people you know, I'm 43 and I think a lot of people around that age are so remember Public Enemy pretty well and grew up with them. And that is pretty, pretty damn cool. I gotta say. Thank you. So yeah, and I did come across the plate tectonics comic when I was looking you guys up so I was like, Oh, that's pretty cool, too.

Adam Wallenta
Yeah, that was a lot of fun to work on with my wife and I would really love to do more with her as far as I like. I enjoy educational comics, creating them and you know, for a long time we read a ton of them to the kids like the one of the the science comics, I forget the official title, but damn, a whole series of great graphic novels about all different subjects. So I really enjoyed reading those with my kids as they were growing up now. They're now he's reading Michael Crighton books, so it's his younger brother reads reads himself, but this one's getting a little. Well, that's great to see him but I'm embarrassing.

Michael Pierry
It's my it's the right age for for embarrassment. Believe me. Yes, I remember. We all remember that. Yeah. So whose idea was it to do "Punk Taco" and what was the artistic process like?

Adam Wallenta
So we were we were hanging out playing. And I had the name "Punk Taco" kind of rattling around in my head for many years. And we're kind of in i He was five turn almost turning six around that age. Yeah. And he, I were playing LEGO toys, action figures just hanging out in our on the floor playing. And I mentioned his name. And he thought it was really funny at the time. And he just started coming up with ideas of what it would be if it was a story. So I don't know if you want to add to that. You know, he's kind of smiling here. But yeah, so I was taking his ideas, I was recording them. I was writing down ideas. And then we just kept going kind of going back and forth. And as you can imagine, when you're when you're creating with a five year old, it's, you know, an endless barrage of, you know, silly ideas and stuff that I thought was brilliant, and a lot of fun. And then he started doing sketches. And it kind of just snowballed from there. I had been in the middle of doing another graphic novel, that I had about 200 pages illustrated. And I was just about to start inking it. It's all drawn. And I actually put that up on the shelf. And we've been working on "Punk Taco" ever since. So the other one is kind of taking the back burner because at the time I knew that, you know, Makana was only going to be you know, this age once, right? And it goes by super quick, as all parents would warn me and I quickly discovered his absolutely true. And, and I wanted to capture that moment in time. So we didn't really feel like I didn't have anybody that was really interested in publishing it. And I knew if I took the time to shop it around, it could be years before it ever saw the light of day. So I just wanted to really capture that moment in time with him and he was all about it. He was all about helping. And we kind of just went back and forth with ideas. And I knew once I realized that we were going to do it and take it seriously. I had published enough books in the past where I knew that I had a certain amount of pages I could do and I had a budget for those pages as far as money goes, and printing costs and everything else. So that kind of trimmed down the story, he had so many ideas that we couldn't fit all in book one. So we kind of I helped him take the ideas that he was throwing at me and you know, do a beginning, middle and end formulate it into a real book. And obviously, he had never written anything before he was young and didn't know that process. So I helped, you know, construct that. We worked on the artwork together and brought it to life. So I knew that I had a limited amount of pages, as I said, and we went from there, like how long the story could be. And then he did his story in the back of the book as well. And then when we did the second, by the time we had finished the first book, and we had sent it out to people to review and started to get a good sense that people really enjoyed it. Then we started to shop at shopping around other publishers to see if we can get a bigger audience. And we didn't get any takers, unfortunately, but we knew that we wanted to continue the series. So we started working on Book Two, and now we're working on Book Three. That's awesome. And what happened in between there a pandemic, we moved 3000 miles across country, right before the pandemic. So that kind of slowed things down. I off camera, we were talking about how long it took, you know, when we started "Punk Taco" and got it printed in 2018. Then here we are in 2023, the second book just came out the end of last year. But you know, time, time flies, when you're having fun. Really?

Michael Pierry
Yeah, that's amazing. Like because, you know, brainstorming is so hard, because your own mind gets in the way it starts rejecting ideas as an adult. And so like, having a little kid there, it's just like, it doesn't matter. Just everything will come out. And just like whatever sticks, you know, so I love that idea.

Adam Wallenta
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I had been writing more mature stuff, like the Public Enemy comic series, and even the educational stuff had to be based in science. And even though it was fun, this was just a completely crazy idea about a space taco musician who rocks out across the universe helping those in need, and, and anything is possible, there was no, you know, it didn't matter what happened, because it was meant for kids. And we crafted it in a way that, that made it for all ages. Because both he Bree gets it for me definitely where, you know, I would read older comics to him, as you know, right, from an early age, whether it was old, fantastic for books or ElfQuest, or, you know, things that were probably way more mature than, you know, his brain needed. But so he enjoyed very verbose books. And, you know, whereas now a lot of, you know, young graphic novels, young, graphic novels for young people, and all ages, books, they don't have as many words, you know, a lot of them are can be very sparse. And but if you look at "Punk Taco", it's very wordy. That's just because that's the type of books I grew up on. And that's the type of books that I was reading to him at the time. And we just enjoyed that. But what we found was, whereas a lot of parents would look at it and be like, "Oh, that's a very wordy book, my kid would read it", but kids pick it up, and they want to read it. Oh, yeah. Even if they don't know the words, now they're going to go back. And they're going to, you know, look up the words that they don't understand. And they can grow with the book as well. Yes. And that was one of our missions, that it could be a true all ages book where a kid could read it with his parent, you know, when he's five, and probably not understand some of the stuff. And then as it gets older, they pick it up on their own, and they start to reread it. And that's why we made it a hardcover, because we love libraries. I mean, we were going to the Hamden library, like every week, and he took out like 20 books, it got to a point where we were, you know, we would buy the books that we read, because we had to return them. And, you know, we just amassed a huge collection of books. And so we were, you know, especially the Hamden library at the time, because we were living in Hamden. We were always there.

Michael Pierry
That's awesome. Yeah, I noticed even in the in the parts of the first volume that I read that there were things in there that were kind of like little nuggets of like, things that were going on around that time, say, when you were writing it, I would say, you know, without getting into exactly what those were certain messages about certain things that may or may not have been going on around the world at the time.

Adam Wallenta
So which unfortunately, in some ways are still relevant today.

Michael Pierry
Yes, absolutely. But yeah, you can definitely go back and reread that when you're older. So yeah, I just wanted to ask, like, what is it like for each of you to create with the other and how has that sort of evolved from when you first started to now?

Adam Wallenta
You want to answer this? You're the one who's grown up more than I have? wrong, only wider. So how is it different? Working with me when you were five as opposed to like, what's changed now?

Makana Wallenta
I don't really remember anything. I don't know that then I feel like I have more ideas. I just couldn't, like come up with more random stuff they put in the book. I created so much for the first book that we couldn't use it also that we put it a lot of in the second book, and then some of it in the third book. And then my brother, my younger brother is making stuff for the first book for the force. Oh, yeah.

Adam Wallenta
Before Yeah, the fourth book. So yeah, so his brother is seven now. And he, he basically wrote the entire "Punk Taco" for himself. Like he one day, I was working on "Punk Taco 2". And he just started rattling off an entire storyline that we were going to do for "Punk Taco" for and I have that recorded. It's amazing. Because at first I didn't record and I made him repeat it. And he remembered everything he said, which was, was mind blowing, because I can't remember yesterday. But yeah, I would say from my perspective, what's changed. You know, obviously, he went from kindergarten to now he's in sixth grade. And he's going into the seventh preparing for the seventh grade. And he's always busy. So that cuts down on our creative process a lot. I mean, I was a stay at home work at home freelance dad. So I got to spend most of his early childhood with him, which I'm extremely grateful for. And I miss a lot. So at the time, we were just always kicking around ideas of things that for books, as well as other things that we wanted to create movies and TV shows and stuff like that. So now he's a lot busier. And I understand what he's saying. He, as far as his creativity, I think sometimes he worries about and I'm speaking for you, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. Sometimes you worry about how people perceive things. I think you're getting to that age sometimes where you're like, "Don't embarrass me dad", or, you know, "you can't do that" or no, do you feel like? You don't know, he's smiling? So I'm pretty sure.

Michael Pierry
Well, you get this little voice in your head that kind of judges you all the time. I think the older you get and kind of says, "Wow, I don't know, if you should say that", or "I don't know if that's a good idea". And you know, a lot of times it's for, like, you know, it's for good reason. But when you're just being creative. I mean, that's, that's when, you know, you just have to let that go and just let everything come out. Because you just never know what's going to be the best idea. I think of writers rooms on TV shows where they just everybody just gets in a room and just, you know, lets whatever crazy idea out and, you know, you never know what's going to be who's gonna have the best idea.

Adam Wallenta
Right? Yeah, that's the thing. And that's kind of how it was for us in the beginning, when, if we were laughing, it was right. You know, if it was making us laugh, you know, it'd be like a dream to work in a writers room and a comedy show because I can imagine from what the story I stories I've read and listened to, like, it's such a blast when when those jokes hit, right, like, so for us when he was rattling off ideas. And it was making me laugh. I was like, Alright, if it can make me laugh, and it's making him laugh. It's good enough, you know, and really, like, we didn't know "Punk Taco" was going to be enjoyed by so many and and that people of all ages are truly going to enjoy. I mean, we've had people, you know, his age from, you know, five and up to middle schoolers to people in high school to adults who don't even have kids by the book at conventions, and they, they genuinely enjoy. Like, they don't have to tell us that. So, you know, it comes from a place of love. And I've had high school teachers say they use it in their classes. I've had middle school teachers say you use it in their classes, and this was created by a five year old and how old was I at the time, like 30 Something so How old was I? 40? I don't know. I was lose track after 44? Yes. Nice. Try that right. I can't keep track. Yeah, that was a long time

Michael Pierry
ago. You guys, you know, you brought something into the world. And I think made it a better place because you know it anytime. I mean, that's the wonderful thing about creativity is that you have the ability to make the world better by just putting something out there that's, you know, a comic book or a piece of music or a piece of art that we'll just, you know, people can identify with or they it makes their day a little brighter somehow. So,

Adam Wallenta
thank you. I appreciate that. We wanted him make people smile. I mean, I know it's a, it's a wacky idea that again, like I thought only he and I would enjoy, but I want to do something that he would be proud of and give him that experience of producing something from beginning to end. But it really does make me happy and by you, but like when we're at the conventions, and you know, kids buy the book, and they enjoy it, or they come back we, we did a show or not a show, but a an in store signing at Jay and Silent Bob's store in New Jersey. Last year, I guess, probably "Punk Taco 2" was out. So it was later in the year. And I remember one of our supporters, he already had everything he had the first book, The second book, he supported, I believe, through Kickstarter. But he brought his kids down just to say hello, and he drove like an hour or something like that. Wow. And I was like, you know, like, that's, like, incredible to me, like, you know, because he didn't have to come down. Like he wanted to come down and say hello. And then I think they bought some art off you. Yeah. And then they took pictures with Makana. And that was really cool, because he sells his artwork. And so it was really, you know, beautiful for them to support what he does. So yeah, so like you said, when you when you create something, and it touches people and and that's also why we do like these library visits. And during the pandemic, we were doing a lot of online visits with schools across the country to talk about "Punk Taco" not just promoted, which that is, there was always an element of that, because you know, we're independent, we have to sell the book. But because we wanted to let kids know that they can do this too. And we tell them our story. And I always try to tell the teachers and any parents that are there as well, that they can do it. So it's not just you're you're never too young, and you're never too old is really like something that I tried to always share with everyone. Because, you know, I kind of said I was in my 40s. So I didn't this, even though I had done the Public Enemy book and worked for Marvel done these other projects. I mean, I never got the same recognition. As I, you know, we won awards for "Punk Taco", you know, to kind of defy the odds being an independent self published book, you know, up against some really big name publishers and books to sell hundreds of 1000s of copies. And we look again, wow, we have done well, we haven't sold that many books, in the grand scheme of things. So we tell people that you're never too young, never too old to do this, you know, and you could be an artist and you can meet a writer and you can work together, your parents can help you, your teacher, your friends. And we try to inspire other people to do the same thing, because we want to see everybody. Everyone has some creativity in them. And a lot of people as you were saying earlier, like, the older you get, you have that voice in your head that says no, or I'm too old, or I'm too busy. I'm too broke. There's a million excuses not to do it. Right. So, you know, Makana and I are part of our mission has been to really try to inspire other people to do the same thing.

Michael Pierry
That's wonderful. Um, so yeah, I think just to wrap things up, along the lines of what you were just saying, what advice would you give to our listeners who would like to be more creative? And, you know, whether it's by themselves or in collaboration with friends or loved ones?

Adam Wallenta
The best advice is to start it and don't stop until it's finished. I mean, you know, it doesn't do anybody any good. If you're worrying about things being perfect. You know, as punk taco the perfectly crafted story, probably not, but we will we started it, we kept going, we finished it, and we're, we continue to move forward. And, you know, share it with other people. So get a first draft done, you know, share it with friends, share with family, share with other writers. And that's always really helpful. But the most important thing is to get something done. And then beyond that, I would recommend, you know, trying to find you know, agents or people that believe in you that will will help you. I don't know, I don't always recommend the independent life because it is extremely difficult. As far as publishing goes. I would say that if you continuously get rejections and you still believe in your work, then do it yourself. There are so many great resources nowadays, from Amazon, Amazon self publishing tools, there's other ones online. Ingram sparks are worthy all these other distributors that do, self published and on demand printing with us, we made the investment into our book ourselves and printed it. It's not always the smartest thing to do. But we knew I knew what I wanted in regards to the quality of the book and how I wanted it to look And at the time, none of the on demand sites really did that. Now, like, I may look into that and into future projects, if, you know agents or publishers aren't interested, but it doesn't hurt like I don't, I don't ever try to put steer anyone away from agents and major publishers, if you can get that, like that is incredible. It's very helpful as far as getting more readers, but I also don't want anybody telling me to, you know, that I can't, or don't do it or to, you know, that, that it's impossible, because you keep because you can't do it yourself. But none of that matters if you don't finish the project. So whether it's, you know, a book or music or something that you invented, you know, really put your all into it. And, you know, again, you're never too young, never too old. So I love seeing people create, I love seeing people and create independently, but really, I just want to see everybody succeed and, and get their ideas out. And their creativity. So

Michael Pierry
I think you said you said it all there. Makhana Do you have any further words of advice?

Unknown Speaker
Um, I don't think you should let anyone tell you, you can't do it. Because, I mean, I was only five. And I came up with tons of ideas. And

Adam Wallenta
yeah, I mean, you if if you weren't my son, and you came out with me with all the you know, if you wanted to get those ideas out, you may not have been able to get it done. Luckily, I had experience that helped bring these ideas to life. And not every kid has that. But what, but what is available out there as the information and I hope that any kids out there that may not be fortunate enough to have a parent that can specifically help them hopefully they can find those resources. And they can always reach out to us if they if they have questions. I mean, you know, I can share my email and all that information. Because I do understand that not every kid or even every adult knows where to look for the information. But if you want something bad enough, especially nowadays with the internet, it's all out there. So you ask the question to Google and you'll you'll find the information. It may not always be the best information, but you can you can find it and and bring your dreams to life. So we hope you will.

Michael Pierry
Well thank you. And that's very generous of you to offer your your support via email. But thank you for your time. This has been really fun. I really enjoyed talking to you both. I wish you all the success in future volumes of punk taco, and whatever other projects you might have in store, keep going keep creating and I'll do the same. And keep rockin.

Adam Wallenta
Thank you very much we appreciate your support and for having us.

Ariana Davis
It is often said that a picture is worth 1000 words. Perhaps a related a greater question is how impactful can one picture one mural or any visual essence of art really have on the community? The answer to this very question is being explored by Rise Up, a Connecticut based nonprofit youth development and mentoring program. They started a statewide campaign in 2015 with the mission of creating public art that is more inclusive and accessible to all people by partnering with local artists, organizations and volunteers. urban spaces and communities across Connecticut have been beautified and revitalized with murals that celebrate cultural diversity and bring to life the positive and inspiring messages of local and national icons. I have the privilege of speaking with Miss Karen Bivens, director of Hamden Arts, Culture, Recreation and Wellness in Miss Lushonda Howard, Chair of Hamden's Art Commission to discuss the mural project taking place in our very own town of Hamden. Thank you so much, ladies, for joining me today.

Karen Bivens
Thank you for having us.

Lushonda Howard
You're welcome. Thanks for having us.

Ariana Davis
So my first question that I'd like to bring out is the mural that will grace the side of Hamptons Miller Memorial Library is a part of rise ups, MLK 39, racial equity project. If you can please explain to our listeners who are unfamiliar the details of the specific project. And what I'd like to start with misfit benefits

Lushonda Howard
I think Karen can answer that from

Karen Bivens
so rise up has been working with municipalities across the state to bring these murals to you know, towns and cities. And there's been I don't know the exact number off the top of my head but there's been quite a few thus far that have gone up in different towns and cities. And I think if you check out rise UPS website, you can see the work that they have been doing. And they work with each town individually, to help design, find placement for and raise funds for these murals.

Ariana Davis
Wonderful. And it's wonderful that Hampton is going to be a part of this historical project and in to have this art be featured in a prominent area for years to come, is definitely a privilege. My next question is, in your opinions, what are the words? Or why are the words of MLK Jr, so impactful? And what are they representative of? And why has his message resounded with so many people or over various generations?

Lushonda Howard
I think MLK represents inspiration. He represents peace. He was a trailblazer. And a pioneer pioneer in the civil rights movement. He stood for and fought peacefully for those that were not able to fight for themselves. He fought for equality. And I think that it resounds, and it's still so impactful to this day is because he made us believe that anything was possible. And although his life was, you know, cut short, so tragically, his legacy was so powerful, that it continues to resound within us. And also, because I think we as a people, we fought to ensure that his legacy will remain as well as his family. Because he was such a powerful person. And even though his life in the young at 39, he's left that legacy. And we continue to make sure that legacy is here by doing such events as murals with MLK, or naming streets after him or celebrating him every year. That's why the legacy continues.

Ariana Davis
So well said, Thank you so much for relating that, and it's beautiful to see how his message, what he stood for the power that he had over, not only on a national international level, but on so many local levels, is being seen here in our very own community. So so thank you for answering that. My next question is, since there was a survey done to get input from the community itself, before the mural was completed, what conclusions about the community can be drawn by the survey? And how did the results of the survey influence the final draft of the mural?

Karen Bivens
I think that the survey was very telling of the community's thoughts right in where we are today. Sort of how far we've come and how far we still have to go. And so I think some of the things we learned from the survey, you know, there's those quotes that everybody knows the MLK quotes that everybody knows, but there are a few in there that folks mentioned that were not as widely known. And I think that for our community, you know, there were there are people who have been part of our community and are still part of our community, who have been very influential in the direction that we're going. And so I think those are the things we were able to take away from from the survey.

Ariana Davis
That's wonderful. That's wonderful to to see how the feedback from the community is also influencing the the final product, the the mural itself. In my last question, or second to last question that is, in your opinion, what effect can art projects like this have on the community? And what impact do you think this mural will have on our very own town of Hampton?

Lushonda Howard
So murals have been around forever, hundreds of years. And I think murals, they create a sense of community. It's a celebration of our culture. It gets you talking, there's dialogue. It's an expression of whatever is relevant at that moment, but also can be historical. Um, I think also, it brings attention to buildings that you may not think about, because I personally because my My daughter's daycare is right next to the library. So I'll drive by that building every day and don't really think anything of it. But I can just imagine, once the mural is there, driving by it, and looking and expecting to see the mural, and it bringing joy to me, and hopefully to anyone else that is driving by, and like, oh, I never noticed that building before. But now I see this beautiful mural on there, or even, you know, create those conversations are like, let me pull over and see what is what it actually says, or what is this about. And then if they do that, then they'll see that it's celebrating the first of Hamden, the first black police officer, the first black fireman, the first black librarian, first black town clerk, Mayor, um, I think it's gonna bring about conversation.

Ariana Davis
Thank you for highlighting that.

Karen Bivens
Can I do? Sorry, can I just add, absolutely out,

Ariana Davis
offered that question to miss Bibbins, as well,

Karen Bivens
thank you, I just, I just wanted to add that, you know, I'm looking at art through a lens of of wellness actually, too, and that art helps us heal, and it promotes, you know, wellness. And I think that art addresses those social issues that sometimes, sometimes we're not talking about, some folks are not ready to talk about. And I think it brings those things forward. And again, like I said, you know, I think it does promote healing in that way. And, you know, when you look at the pandemic, like, what were we all doing when the pandemic was occurring, and so many of us were home, you know, we were filling our spaces in our time with, you know, with art with artistic endeavors. And so I think when you have a mural like this, and it is, is, Shonda said, it promotes the community, you think it promotes a healing, you know, in the community and allow, it helps us to address some of the issues. And so I think, you know, and then when you see an art does fill you with joy. And so I think to when we see this driving my like she said, it, it really will, you know, for me, just seeing the sketch of it has filled me with joy. And I want to say, we have we had a community paint day, this over the weekend with Earth Day, and we're having another one may 11, at the Keefe Center, from three to eight. And to see folks over the weekend, you don't have to be an artist to help paint this and to see people come out and just contribute to something that's going to be on on this wall for generations, is really amazing. And to see people enjoy themselves and feel like they've contributed in and just have that love for our community has been really great. Sorry, if I talk too much,

Ariana Davis
not at all, thank you to both of you for expressing that. And putting your own take on how you feel the mural, will will be able to have an effect on the community and encourage people to have those conversations and to have important messages reflected we know that scene are imitating life life imitating art. And so we see how both of those really correlate in within this in this project. Your Your words are a perfect segue into my into my last question. So in addition to the remaining community paint, Dan may 11 How can members of the community additionally become involved in or support the production of the mural?

Karen Bivens
So we raise funds over the past several months, we had some fundraising efforts and we were able to get a match from sustainable CTE. But if you still want to contribute financially, there's still that you still could there still that opportunity. And, yeah, the community paint day is is really great. It's a really great opportunity to like, like I said, you know, dab your brush, get a few paint strokes in there and, and contribute in that way. And then we're going to have an unveiling of the mural on June 17. At noon, right over there by you know, on the wall, it the librarian Dixwell to you know, unveil the the final product. And that is actually part of our Juneteenth Celebration this year. And so we'll start with the mural unveiling at 12. And have a celebration and walk right on down to Town Center Park, which is adjacent to the library to celebrate Juneteenth, so we hope that people will come on out and and, you know, enjoy with us.

Lushonda Howard
And I would also say, another way to contribute is to just talk about it and share with your friends, family networks, that there's this mural, new mural in Hamden. So we'll take that drive down Dixwell Avenue, and take a look at it. And hopefully, it inspires, inspires you.

Ariana Davis
Thank you so much, we look forward to seeing the final product and hoping that more people become involved, whether as you brought out to physically helping the painting of it or to encourage more people to come and take a look at it. And I know I can speak for members of the library and in our staff that we are definitely honored to be chosen as the host for this mural. And I really think both of you, Miss Bivens and Miss Howard for your time today, and for your work in the creation and production of the towns on Riseup for the arts community mural. Thank you again. Thank you. Thank you.

Mike Wheatley
My name is Michael Wheatley, and in addition to having worked at the Hamden Public Library for 17 years, I've been affiliated with Best Video Film and Cultural Center here in Hamden since 1985.

"M. Is for the mercy she possesses. O means that I owe her all I own. T is for her tender, sweet caresses. H is for her hands that made a home. E means everything she's done to help me. R means real and regular, you see. Put them all together. They spell mother, a word that means the world to me." 
Written in 1915 "Mother, a Word That Means the World to Me" by Theodore F. Morse, composer, and Howard E. Johnson, lyricist.

When Michelle Yeoh accepted her Best Actress Award at the 95th Oscars, she said in her speech, "I have to dedicate this to my mom, all the moms in the world, because they are really the superheroes, and without them, none of us would be here tonight." In this podcast, I am not going to be talking about bad moms and movies like "Mommy Dearest" or "Sybil", but in particular, here's to heroic mothers.

Movies and television have used motherhood as a plot device for all of their existence. In the silent film "Way Down East" filmed by DW Griffith in 1920, an abused mother played by Lillian Gish was pursued across river ice in a blizzard. For its time, it was a blockbuster, doing all over four and a half million dollars in box office. In honor of Mother's Day I present a list of some of my favorite films where moms are the heroes. Some are animated, some are live action comic book heroines, some are actual women who went above and beyond, and some are fictional representatives of the spirit that women around the world show every day. The movies are listed from the oldest to the most recent.

in the Second World War, in 1942, a film in England came out "Mrs. Miniver". Greer Garson played Mrs. Miniver, a heroine at home defending her family against all the bombing and the horrors of war. In 1947, in "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" Gene Tierney, a widow Mrs. Muir played a fantasy of sorts with Rex Harrison as the ghost of a sea captain and Gene Tierney as a writer who follows his story and supports her daughter and their wonderful existence out along the coast in England. It was made into a TV show later, but the movie is definitely worth watching and the book worth reading. Interesting differences. In 1948. "I remember Mama", starring Irene Dunne as Marta "Mama" Hansen. In San Francisco, a Norwegian immigrant family daily life from the scene from the vantage point of the daughter in 1949, one of the first TV series hits. We don't remember it today, because most of them are lost through kinescope, never put on film. "I Remember Mama", the movie with Irene Dunne, did very well in the box office also, and is highly regarded.

In 1972, Cicely Tyson played the mother in a family in the 1930s. in the South. They were sharecroppers in a film called "Sounder". "Sounder" is a children's book in the juvenile section, but it's so much more than that. I recommend it highly as a book, and as a movie. Cicely Tyson played Rebecca Morgan, a woman whose husband is put in prison for stealing a ham to help feed his family, and she has to continue the farm in the sharecropping in order to make her family survive.

In 1984, another single mom in "Places of the Heart" played by Sally Field as Edna garnished many awards is one of my favorite films. Also in 1984, another fictional mom, Linda Hamilton played Sarah Connor against Arnold Schwarzenegger "The Terminator". In 1985. Cher played as Rusty Dennis, the mother of a handicapped son who has a bone issue and has a face that looks like a mask and she defended him. Beautiful film, 1985, Check it out if you haven't seen it.

1986 Sigourney Weaver, even though not her physical mom finds a young girl that she calls new in Aliens. She plays Ellen Ripley, and in a movie, a battle of Mother versus mother, a mother alien and her acting as a mother to new is a great film. It's a great action film, and a Sigourney Weaver's chance to be a John Wayne character. Great action film directed by James Cameron in 1994. And in 2019, the two most recent versions of Little Women. In 1994 Susan Sarandon again played Abigail "Marmee" March and in 2019, that role went to Laura Dern. They're just the latest of many versions of Little Women, with Marmee being the hero of the family set during the Civil War, and with a husband away at war and her relationship with the family, directed by Danny DeVito.

In 1996, the first film adaptation of Matilda where and that David's played Miss Honey, a teacher who eventually gets to adopt Matilda. Sorry for the spoiler. 2004, "The Incredibles": Holly Hunter played Helen Parr, otherwise known as Elastigirl, what a great mom. 2009,  "Away We Go". Maya Rudolph, with a nesting instinct plays Verona de Tessen, a woman initially living in the wilds, in the isolated area of Alaska with her parents and her husband played by John Krasinski, who is about to give birth and needs to find a place to nest, the parents are going away to Europe, and they won't have help. I love it. It's a great comedy, it's episodic shows the different family communities that exist in this world.

Jennifer Lawrence is another non mom who was a mom in "Winter's Bone". She plays re the caretaker for her mother who has a drug issue and her two younger siblings searching in the Ozarks for her father, who left their property as bonds for a criminal case and then disappeared. Jennifer Lawrence's first major role, it's what made me fall in love with her as an actress. And if you haven't seen it, it's a great watch. Another great watch. Based on a best selling book, "Room", Brie Larson plays the mother of Jack, a woman who has been impregnated and captured and held up in a shack outside her kidnappers house while she gives birth and raises a young child. It sounds depressing, but Brie Larson brings joy and great care for her son. It's an unusual and fascinating film and goes on my highly recommended list.

Just a heroine of another nature is Nicole Kidman as Queen Atlanta in "Aquaman", who to protect her son deposits him and gives him to a small village and then defends where he is. It's a wonderful superhero movie and a interesting Mother Son relationship.

And in 2018 and 2022 unusual horror films put at center motherhood. In "A Quiet Place" and "Quiet Place 2", Emily Blunt plays Evelyn Abbott a woman who must protect her family when creatures can sense sound around her. Not only do they sense sound but she -- in "Quiet Place", the first one -- is pregnant and has to give birth in quiet. Maybe not for all my listeners' tastes, but it's a really good quality film. And if you don't mind a little scare really worth it.

Another superhero movie "Black Panther" and its follow up "Black Panther: Wakanda Forever" has another heroic movie mother, Angela Bassett as Queen Ramonda. It's a great superhero movie, and Queen Ramanda's an amazing character. Another sci fi movie that I recommend highly for its mother character is Rebecca Ferguson playing lady Jessica Atreides. In the 2021 version of part one of "Dune". and then finally, last year's Academy Award winner Michelle Yeoh as Evelyn Wang in "Everything Everywhere All At Once". Again, this film may not be for everyone's cup of tea, but it is really a movie about motherhood and the immigrants experience at trying to do everything all at once. Who in your opinion is the greatest cinema mother? Is it one of these 20 or so? Or do you have one that I haven't mentioned? So Happy Mother's Day to all those courageous mothers out there.

Michael Pierry
Dave Scanlon and Ryan Keeler are coworkers of mine here at the library. As it turns out, the three of us are also musicians. So we figured we'd sit down and talk about music and creativity and how it all works for each of us. Because I imagine there are a lot of similarities and a lot of differences in how we do things. Dave and Ryan, welcome.

Ryan Keeler
Thanks, Mike.

David Scanlon
Hello. Glad to be here and talking about all this.

Michael Pierry
So, can each of you describe your current artistic practice or routine? And after you guys go, I can talk about mine.

Ryan Keeler
Okay, well, my routine typically revolves around casually playing guitar on my couch. And I typically will try to spark my creativity with different tunings or listening to different styles of music outside of my own style.

David Scanlon
It really differs from me. I generally try in my mind to have, like, to spend about an hour and a half, five days a week, working on music. That really fluctuates. The -- my musical practice and routine is really task oriented of, like, I have this project to get done and I this project to get done. And as a result of that, I might have, like, a week where I do a ton of work on it, and then a week where I do less work. I wish it wasn't like that, but that's what it's been at the moment. I usually do have one guitar and a goal that I'm working on, like something I'm practicing or like something I'm trying to improve on. But the practice isn't necessarily guitar-focused. I used to spend a lot of time coding electronic music on a computer as part of my musical practice. But when the pandemic happened in 2020, and we were all spending a lot more time on a computer, I really didn't want to spend my music time at a computer and that kind of has remained. I haven't wanted to be on a computer in the same way.

Michael Pierry
Well, I identify with both you guys. Ryan I -- I've I love alternate tunings. I think I've talked about Michael Hedges before and he's kind of inspiring to me because every composition he wrote was in a different guitar tuning. For me. I don't really -- I consider myself sort of a lapsed guitarist right now. [Laughter]

I don't -- I'm not actively practicing at all right now. I -- what I usually do is I have fallow periods, so much like a farmer with their crops, I have periods where you just kind of let it lie and don't do anything actively, and hopefully, you spend some time away and you listen to other people's music, and you just let the seeds kind of develop on their own. And hopefully, when I come back to it, it will feel fresh again, because, you know, I had two albums that I released not too long ago, and they were long term projects, they took a long time to come to fruition. And once they did, I was like, Okay, I need some time away from this, because it was, it started to be really, you know, it was all me. And I was doing all the mixing and the mastering and everything all by myself. So getting that all done and being satisfied with it was really, it took a lot out of me. So yeah, I'm in a, I'd say I'm in a fallow period currently. 

So this leads me to the next question, which is, what role does this practice have in your life. And Ryan also wanted to talk about this in connection with mental health and wellness or creativity as medicine, which is something I resonate with strongly. So I'll talk about that first. And then I'll pass it to you guys.

So as I said, that I'm in a fallow period. So what I'm doing is actively listening to a lot of different types of music. I've been listening to a ton of classical music right now, I don't know exactly what impact that's going to have on me. But it's something I've done in the past. And it fascinates me. I really like listening to things like symphonies with the score in front of me so that I can kind of get what they're -- the logic of it. In terms of mental health, or creativity as medicine, I've always felt that music is his medicine for me. I was undiagnosed with depression and anxiety for many years. And, you know, I was very much someone who would just holed up in his room and listen to music and use that as a way to cope and play music as a way to cope, too, so I strongly relate to that. But so, Ryan, what, what role does this practice have for you and your life?

Ryan Keeler
Well, Mike, I'm right there with you with the depression and anxiety.

Michael Pierry
Welcome.

Ryan Keeler
That seems pretty common these days. But yeah, I -- a lot of people need to find a way to deal with those kinds of feelings. And music has always been that for me, whether it was listening or playing. And during the pandemic, I needed to expand,kind of beyond that. So I really started becoming a tinkerer and building guitars and incorporating that into my creative process to make the sounds that I, you know, had thought of in my head that I couldn't get out of the traditional instruments that you would buy new from a store.

David Scanlon
Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. And I wanted to kind of, I guess, expand on it or jump off of that a little bit, as some of the ways that I think about it. I do agree with you both, in the way that I feel that working on music is very centering. And when I'm not working on that I do feel kind of adrift, if you will. However, the way that I guess I think about why I do this is that I feel that finishing something is meaningful. And for me that something is usually music, but I think that same practice could take the form of any type of practice, whether that is repairing something. You know, working on a garden, just the idea of finishing something, I think is very meaningful.

And you know, finishing can mean different things to different people. A way in which I think about that specifically comes from the composer Cyrus Pireh. He is a composer that lives in Detroit. And he talks a lot about music being a place where we're able to practice success. And what that means is that there's so many aspects of our lives where the success of something isn't necessary, necessarily in our control. There might be outside forces that, you know, like, none of the three of us are going to be able to, say, solve climate change on our own. There's all these things that exist, and it's very hard to practice success. And in music, we have the chance to be able to kind of manifest success and have a practice of success by having an idea of doing something, whether that is writing a song, whether that is tinkering and finishing a guitar. But these are ways in which we are able to have an idea, work on that idea, and be successful in completing that idea. And I think music is a very good place for that. Because in many times, we're able to, I guess, have the means to be successful.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, that's interesting, um, in terms of finishing things, because, for me, it's always been a struggle to know when I'm finished. A lot of times, in fact, there are definitely pieces on the albums that I released recently that I thought were done, you know, 12 years ago. And it turns out, I have to completely rework them. So sometimes you just aren't sure when you're finished.,and I guess sometimes I'm always seeking. Sometimes I'm always, I don't know where I'm coming up with these sentences. But --

David Scanlon
I -- and I want to, I mean, I use the term "finishing".

Michael Pierry
Mmm hmm.

David Scanlon
But I guess they're, I guess they're also like, a way in maybe like--

My in laws have a very old house that they have been working on for decades and decades. And I would say their practice isn't dissimilar in the way in which it is meaningful. And though I don't think it -- the nature of their project, you might not be able to finish, you know. So, but I would assume -- without having asked them -- that that might be -- have a similar relationship in their lives or bring a certain, the same type of meaning. But I do think there's something to music, which I guess maybe -- this is maybe a good example where. I don't know. Maybe it -- talking about it makes me think that some of the projects that I set out to do, I do know that I can finish.

Michael Pierry
Mmm hmm.

David Scanlon
I'm not setting out to write, say, a project that would require certain funding or certain stages in which I couldn't be successful with that project. So I don't know.

Michael Pierry
So you're talking about setting realistic goals, in a way?

David Scanlon
Yes, but that doesn't mean that they're not very, very ambitious.

Michael Pierry
Sure. But they're things that are within your grasp, you feel.

David Scanlon
Within my musical life, I would like to have the tools to be able to have them -- the projects -- be successful. And that feels important in being able to deal with the things in your life that you don't necessarily have control over. Yeah, I don't know, that might be that actually now that we're talking about it, it sounds like a me issue. For this, probably a lot of people  --

Michael Pierry
A lot of things, I think that's very relatable to a lot of people that we want to have that element of -- I know, control is, is something that I can relate to, too, because so much of life is out of our control. And like you said, you know, the three of us are not going to solve climate change. So, but we can we can write a song.

David Scanlon
I mean, maybe Ryan can.

Michael Pierry
[Laughter]

Michael Pierry
Maybe, yeah. Okay, so, in what ways does composing or creating differ from playing music or even listening to music?

David Scanlon
When -- When I originally heard of that question, my initial thought was composing is more boring. But sometimes that those things can be interrelated in the way that, like, the idea of play could lead to composition. Usually, at least for me, like, working on finishing a piece of music, finishing a song, finishing whatever; I, you know, have like an outline, and I'm like working through trying to do this thing. But I do EMS, separately spending some time just like playing an instrument, it's not usually very long. And that that time is more casual.

And when I think about listening, listening is interesting because sometimes it's very social. And in those settings, it often feels rather casual, or like I'm thinking of like, I do spend a lot of time with my family putting records on, and there's usually a record on, and that feels very casual. And then other moments where it's kind of just me, and that's usually kind of in the car listening to something. Yeah, but all -- I guess both of those other things feel more, like, looser than composing.

Michael Pierry
So listening. For me, ideally, a lot of times, I'd say there's two different kinds. There's one that sort of fits in the social realm, and also is more associated with like fun, or even just soothing good vibes kind of thing. And then the other kind of listening, which I like to do is just like adventurous kind of listening, where you challenge yourself. And that can be very exciting to hear things that you haven't heard before.

As far as playing music, that runs the gamut from, you know, you're just going through something that you've played before. And it's fun, because you know it, and you you feel like you have good rapport with your instrument and with your, your, your fingers and your, your body. And you're just going through it and it feels, it feels good. All the way to something where you make a mistake, but you, you hear that mistake, and you go, "maybe that's something" and that can lead to something new. And that's how I think playing music can can sometimes lead to creativity.

As far as composing my, my main impetus for even picking up the guitar in the first place, was to be a composer, I never really had any wish to become like a guitar wizard or anything like that. I just wanted to make up stuff. So oftentimes, when I pick up the guitar, I just see what comes up. And I see if anything, any chord sound good, or any notes sound good, and see if they come together in in a pleasing way. And if they do, then I'll try to save that in either my memory or on a musical, you know, note in my phone or something like that, and then go back to it later. And then hope that it turns into something later on.

Ryan Keeler
When it comes to listening to music, especially other people's music. I don't often find myself thinking of music, especially not my own or any thing to do with composition, I'm typically just experiencing that music as I listened to it. So it's really separate from creating my own music to me. But the playing portion, just playing music, I think is just inseparable from composition, because that's how you lead to composing music. And that's typically how I always worked. I've never thought of a song structure of building it out from that sense, I would build it out naturally, just from playing it until it sounded appropriate.

David Scanlon
I think there's an interesting thing about people that play music, particularly as adults. Like, it is common for you -- for a child to be given open, unstructured play time. And once you have some facility on an instrument, you have this ability to have this kind of, like, unstructured play, which is amazing and very healthy. And is kind of sad that like all adults don't. And it's this kind of lucky thing that if you are a musician you, you retain that.

Michael Pierry
So, um, and that's a good intro. That's a good lead into the next question, which is why music, why not something else?

Ryan Keeler
Well, I think that anyone who is musically creative probably was creative in other ways. I know that I started out as a kid in art. I always used to draw read, and all that kind of thing. I didn't learn to play guitar until I was about 10 or 11 years old. And that just opened up a whole new world of creativity. I was already expressing the creativity and other ways prior to that So I think that music is just another avenue for people who are already looking to express their creativity in some way.

David Scanlon
Yeah, I'm gonna like, take back what I previous said, I think Ryan's right that practice all art mediums kind of do allow for some type of unstructured play, there are ways that music is I feel is unique. I have written about it a little bit before. We're librarians you can ask for our citations and other time. But I feel that music is very unique also, on the physical level of it being an art form that is in physical contact with the body, in my feeling is that music is an art of touch. What I mean by that is that a sound wave is vibrating matter that the sound wave travels, it comes to your ear, it then vibrates your specifically your own eardrum, the membrane there. And that is the art object for music, the art object is coming in physical contact with your body, the like body is vibrating from it. And, and that doesn't happen in all art forms. In the visual arts, the sound cannot travel through empty space, sound requires mass in order to function. Light is not necessarily that a reflection works differently, or you see an art object that is separate from your body. It is not touching your physical body. I think there is a different sensation there. When you're dealing with music, it has its own properties for you know, positive and negative. That's not like a judgment on the on visual arts or other art forms. They just physically are different. And I think there is a certain we are all interested in music, we are talking about music. And I think that if the intimacy of receiving music is a result of it being a form of touch. And that does feel unique on a physical level to Sonic arts.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, I agree with most of what you're saying there. I do think that music is uniquely I mean, it's interesting, people have said that it's abstract, like Stravinsky, famously said that music doesn't represent anything doesn't say anything. But I think most people would tend to say that music is the thing that kind of grabs you by the emotions, most immediately, you don't have to interpret in the same way that you might with a painting or something else in the visual arts domain. Music, it's almost predator natural in terms of its ability to sort of grab you like it's pre language, you know, it just has this ability to grab the listener. And it's very compelling. As for me personally, why music and not something else. Unlike Ryan, I'm I'm not multitalented, I tilt, I can't draw for anything. And I'm okay as a writer, but I never do creative writing. So music was kind of my only my only bag since I was a teenager. So that was it. For me. That was my only choice.

David Scanlon
I think there are also I'm trying to think, in some getting back to like the Stravinsky thing that you said, I think there is oftentimes I'm kind of jealous of the clarity of photography, its ability to be so direct,

Michael Pierry
it's going to show you direct analog representation of the world as it exists at a point in time, but it doesn't give you I mean, the thing that's happening, like you said is that music is actually physically touching you there are sound pressure waves that actually activate the inside of your skull and then your brain, your brain is actually vibrating at those frequencies. You know, they've done tests with like ALS and they can show that they can they can replace the missing frequencies and have a melody and the brain will fill in the gaps and that's just like a physical part of sound and music and how that all works in the brain. So it's a it's unique in that way.

Ryan Keeler
You Yeah, the uniqueness is, is the most fun part, it's so deeply personal, in that our perceptions of music are completely unique to us. We, you know, you can see examples of certain music that you would think how could anybody possibly listen to that or like that music, but they do because they are receiving that totally differently than you would receive it. And I think that's just one of the most incredible parts of music overall.

Michael Pierry
So, to wind things down, the last question or point of discussion here is at Hamden Public Library, we are serving people from Hampton and the surrounding towns, and in what ways do you think about music in relation to this physical place?

David Scanlon
I think that that question also makes me think of at least, and maybe I, because I just think of it generally gets me back to that idea of success it within music, and like it being able to kind of manifest you being able to manifest these projects. When I think about music in a physical place. I love the way in which towns have their local communities of small shows. In our area, I'm thinking of things like the sharing that takes place at places like Best Video, neverending books, gray matter books, you know, most of these shows are, are, they're not big rooms. But there are places where people can kind of present what they have been working on to their peers. And I think that's very special. There's a lot of that in Hamden, and in the greater New Haven area. And there's also a lot of that in everywhere. And I think that's an amazing part about music, this kind of, it can be very social in ways in which you might play music with people. It also might be social in the ways in which you might share your music, or share someone else's music with another person. I like the way in which the way in which music gets exchanged in these kinds of concerts that are between like eight and 20 people in the audience. And I think that that is a meaningful, and at least for me, important kind of dialogue, to have both to be able to present music, and to be able to hear others music in that context. And Hamden definitely has that in his doing it in a quite rich way.

Ryan Keeler
Yeah, we're very fortunate to be in a culturally and artistically diverse community. But I don't think I could answer this question without giving Dave a shout out for his guitar class here in the Hamden library system, where maybe we can help some people in the community express themselves artistically.

Michael Pierry
Yeah. I was thinking about Dave, while you were talking. Not only that, that guitar class, but also the way as you said, people are so enthusiastic about sharing music, and how, you know, they just are so amped up to tell you about their favorite band and to share the music with you and how great that is, I mean, you don't often get that as much in, say, like, the realm of like, postmodern or something.

David Scanlon
Very similar to that. I try to have like, a lot of enthusiasm around the very loud car stereo, of like, it's kind of, there's so many things that are kind of interesting about that, like, this person really wants to share music. This person is also Yeah, wants to share the music that they seem passionate about. They want to, in a way perform it. Yeah. And I think that it is social. I mean, it can read as antisocial if you but I don't know, I guess I try. It's only antisocial. If you receive it in a way that like you're being like, this person is trying to infiltrate my personal space. But if you've received the loud car stereo as like, this person is sharing this music that they're excited about with me, then it feels like this social thing. I mean, it's this and that is some marginal like, you know, music at a party.

Michael Pierry
So opening it up as a generous kind of gesture instead of, you know, a rude sort of thing.

David Scanlon
I don't know what the what like, is the initial impetus from that person. Yeah. But I can decide to to receive it as a gift. Sure. And this way that like this is actually very social, like we're sharing and in a way, I think that it is very social.

Michael Pierry
Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was great. Thank you guys so much for for doing this. It was it was really fun. We should. We should do it again sometime.

Ryan Keeler
Yeah. That's great. Mike, thanks for having us on.

David Scanlon
Absolutely. Thanks so much, and thanks to music,

Michael Pierry
thanks to music. That's it for this month's episode of The Hamden Library podcast. We'll be back next month. Talk to you then.