Today I speak with my friend Kim, polarity practitioner extraordinaire, about the stories that shaped her, and what do you do when you feel like a stranger on Earth? Join us for a dimensional conversation!
Kim is offering a retreat in Arizona in May to journey to your heart! More info here: www.live-free.co/retreats
Get notified when the Silken Mirror membership opens in 2023 : http://eepurl.com/dxzCk9
Follow us on Instagram @moonlitpathchannel
This podcast is hosted by Laure Porché: http://laureporche.com. You can follow me on Instagram @laureporche
If you're enjoying the podcast, consider sharing it or leaving a review on Apple Podcast :)
Today I speak with my friend Kim, polarity practitioner extraordinaire, about the stories that shaped her, and what do you do when you feel like a stranger on Earth? Join us for a dimensional conversation!
Kim is offering a retreat in Arizona in May to journey to your heart! More info here: www.live-free.co/retreats
Get notified when the Silken Mirror membership opens in 2023 : http://eepurl.com/dxzCk9
Follow us on Instagram @moonlitpathchannel
This podcast is hosted by Laure Porché: http://laureporche.com. You can follow me on Instagram @laureporche
If you're enjoying the podcast, consider sharing it or leaving a review on Apple Podcast :)
[00:00:00] Laure: Today it's my pleasure to welcome my friend Kim Pinkley, polarity practitioner, teacher, and desert dweller, to talk about stories, healing, and being a human being.
[00:00:14] Hi!
[00:00:16] Kim: Good morning!
[00:00:18] Laure: Good morning. So as you might know, if you've listened to the podcast before the first question that I ask to everybody who comes on is what's your favorite story and what does it say about yourself or how did it help you in your life?
[00:00:39] Kim: You know, most of my favorite stories. They come from movies and if I had to pick my favorite would be Goodwill hunting. But I just have to say too, I cannot not honor my close tie is Yoda, the storyline of Yoda and Luke Skywalker. So they're both right there for me. And what do they say about me? I think it has this piece about the underdog, if you will, to some degree the archetype of that, as well as the student teacher thing that whole master student and being able to kind of just go through life and dig deep. you're blessed with people, for me, this was my experience and why I think I relate to these especially Goodwill hunting. If you're blessed with people to come into your space at the right time and you're open to it and you come from something that is so challenging, but there're caring resource for you. Then it's an equalizer, it's this place where you can get to the middle ground. And I think what's really cool is as I've grown, and as I've been with that process and really looked at it from a more mature aspect, I see how it serves both sides in such a way. I definitely see that that transformation that I get in that moment gets to be a gift for the person who is coming into my life with the medicine.
[00:02:08] Laure: It's interesting. This subject is very present in my life right, now. I just posted actually an episode about this, about how do you welcome other people as resources in your life and their ability to embody a story that don't know, that you haven't learned and that they can bring you in a physical form because they know it and they're living it.
[00:02:34] And you can then start mirroring the feeling of that and how big a resource it is if you're using it consciously, if you're thinking, Hey, what do I want to bring into my life? And who is, who is modeling, who has that around me?
[00:02:51] Kim: I love that. I agree a hundred percent, I've been playing with that and teaching that it's been something I've been speaking to in my work, this idea that it's really challenging for change sometimes if it's never been modeled. Right. And there's also what can exist if you take the example of like maybe Socioeconomic classes, even the difference there, where at times there's judgment from one class to the other.
[00:03:22] Right. So in order to even receive that you have to maybe open to that a little, you know, get the chip off your shoulder or get the fear away or process it or however you want to put it. And I think that it's something special. When the tables can turn, if you will even just like internally forget about the outside and the outward and the material or whatever, you have to have something modeled to you. And I would say too that it either has to mean something like what's being modeled has to be something you want, or you have to really care about that person that's modeling it to kind of want to change, you know? And so I resonate with what you're saying. I've been seeing a lot of this popping up too in our field, this equalizing kind of feeling or teaching. Internally, being able to get to this space of neutrality. You know, to me, that's the idea that neutrality, it encases all the possibilities, right?
[00:04:18] And so broadening of our paradigm of neutrality that can come in those situations where the poles still exist, but maybe the continuum is longer,
[00:04:30] Laure: Yeah, and it's also paradoxically it's getting out of the idea of gurus because you would think that gurus are supposed to model for us, but what happens most people is that they don't actually use that.
[00:04:44] Kim: Yeah,
[00:04:44] Laure: You know, they see like, oh, this person is extraordinary and I can never reach that level. And I'm just going to sit here and kind of receive, there's a level issue. Whereas when you start looking at that and saying, oh, okay, how is he doing that? Or how is she doing that? how can I find it for myself How does it feel in my body? That puts you in a completely different relationship, right? Puts you like out of helplessness in a way.
[00:05:10] Kim: That's the deal. Right? I love that. That's exactly I think... I want to say you're probably speaking to the medicine that I got from Goodwill Hunting, you know?
[00:05:20] Laure: And from Yoda because
[00:05:22] Kim: Right.
[00:05:22] Laure: you know, I remember like when he's training Luke, I seem to remember Luke is saying, oh, you know, you can do all those
[00:05:29] Kim: Yes
[00:05:30] Laure: and Yoda says like: tss tss
[00:05:33] Kim: Yes, exactly.
[00:05:36] Laure: You have to believe
[00:05:37] Kim: Right. The "try" piece, he comes in with this try piece, but yeah, I totally, I feel that to be right on point with how I feel that throughout the years and throughout my process, that I've come to such a different relationship with this whole master student kind of piece, you know, for sure.
[00:05:57] Laure: I feel that cause I was, I was a fan girl a long time. So I totally get it. Having that relationship of like, oh, I can never get there. And, and then that changed. I guess when I started training really, that really changed with real teachers. Cause it's also, the teacher brings that. Again, it's kind of like the serpent that eats its own tail is that it's also the teacher that models in their field, that kind of equality of level, that allows you to look at them and think I can reach that.
[00:06:33] Kim: Yes, there's something absolutely to be said about that. And I think, you know, you can take that back to the guru piece and how for me, one that I'm interested in listening to has that humanity piece and a lot of the times these ones that we hear that go off, what do I know? But I
[00:06:51] Laure: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Kim: it comes from that spiritual ego piece where you just kind of get lost in this great medicine that you've learned to harness, the alchemy, the blah, blah, blah. Right. And it makes it like even more unattainable for your students.
[00:07:04] Laure: Yeah. And I think also, it's so tempting, you know, it's...
[00:07:07] like, On my small level, obviously very small level, I can feel the temptation of pretending that what I have is more, that what I have is unattainable in a way, because that keeps you in a position of power, because most people want you to be in a position of power and it will they will very gladly give you their power.
[00:07:31] Kim: Everybody's walking around looking for, are you my daddy?
[00:07:36] Laure: Tell me what to do.
[00:07:37] Kim: Right? Exactly.
[00:07:39] Laure: And I do that. I think it's very human, but when you're in a position where those kind of looks are starting to turn towards you. It's super tempting, I'm not gonna lie about that. Like it is. Especially because we're all looking for some kind of feeling of empowerment in our lives, that kind of balances, I think a deep seated sense of helplessness as human beings, because the reality is that we don't control anything in our life. Right, right. I think we can agree on that. And so that, I think there's something really deep, that's looking for some sense of power, you know. Some sense of , I have control, I have something.
[00:08:18] And so it's really hard, I think, to resist when people are bringing that to you on a platter saying, Hey, look at how powerful you are. Like tell me what to do and feed me and and, and, you know, I think that's one of the things as teachers that we should, I know I should strive for all the time. It's like, okay,
[00:08:35] Kim: Um,
[00:08:35] Laure: Like, where am I standing? Am I with them?
[00:08:38] Kim: mm.
[00:08:40] Laure: It's, it's a really interesting line to walk.
[00:08:44] Kim: Absolutely. I love holding medicine circles for that, you know, talking circles. That whole piece is just so for me, it's embodied in the moment when you're right next to somebody, instead of like somebody sitting on a stage and everybody else is in the audience listening. And it's that whole piece about we're just right next to each other, one to one, shoulder to shoulder. I love, love, love that quote from Ram Dass, that we're all just walking each other home.
[00:09:11] And that's always my intention of where I would love to come from every day. I think that's that helps me with that piece that you're speaking about wanting to feel the empowerment of it. And
[00:09:22] Laure: yeah.
[00:09:23] Kim: I have really learned to experience the empowerment of just being side by side and being in that neutral space of understanding that this is a relationship that can continue to serve in both ways, you know?
[00:09:37] Laure: Yeah, I love that. Yoda in training.
[00:09:40] Kim: Yes. Always, always, always, always.
[00:09:46] Laure: So I'd love you to talk a little bit about your work. You know, this podcast is about story,
[00:09:53] Kim: yeah.
[00:09:53] Laure: of story, which is really wide. You know, I end up talking about literal stories, but also just the concept of the stories that we carry and... see everything in terms of story for me our whole life, everything is a story.
[00:10:07] Kim: Right.
[00:10:08] Laure: I wonder how this concept in your work and how you've seen it help people potentially, or yourself.
[00:10:15] Kim: For sure. So I am a polarity and cranial therapist, I do energetic bodywork helping people process their lives basically. And sometimes that can be grief, sometimes that can be trauma, sometimes that can be stress, whatever, right? And for me, bringing story into a session, again, it helps build connection and resonance.
[00:10:37] I feel like if there is a story that I've heard that relates to their piece, a story that I've experienced, something that I can share with them. Not only can it be that place where it builds resonance and trust, but I also feel like it can help diffuse of it. You know, it's like the things coming together and they find their way and then charge can kind of fall off. There's like a meeting of it and their story gets met with another story. There's a part of us as humans beings that we're all just kind of wandering around, wanting to feel met, wanting to feel seen, wanting to feel heard. And for me, I think that's where story is so valuable, sharing it and having it available in the moments when instead of being told how you can change what you need to do to heal. But what about if you can just be related to, that's typically the way that I would say that I use it in my work, that would be like the major place. Yeah.
[00:11:35] Laure: I remember you talking about, also as a practitioner, finding your own. Maybe you didn't use the word story, but something around your own flavor or your own way. remember the words exactly that you used, but I remember listening to you talking about how you find yourself as a practitioner or as a teacher.
[00:11:58] Kim: Hmm.
[00:11:58] Laure: How, in a way you write your own story in that way. And I wonder also how that happened for you, like, you know, what are the steps, what brought you to who you are? What are the things that are important in your life? I could say in your work, but I think in the kind of work that we do, they're not separatable.
[00:12:17] Kim: Right.
[00:12:18] Laure: Life and your work, or like intertwined.
[00:12:22] Kim: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have a story for you. In some ways it's silly, but in other ways, for me, it's everything. I was a child of the eighties. And as I said in the beginning my stories are a lot to do with movies, right? And so it was the first time I got turned on to the idea of energy work or that there was something more than what we can see in this world in our little world here on earth, if you will, our limited view. For me, the first time that got popped was when I watched the Empire strikes back. And when I sat there and I watched Yoda lifting the spaceship out of the swamp. And I was like, that is something that I want to be able to do. I didn't for one second question, that that was impossible. And my joke around this is, is that I haven't done it yet, but it's only cause I have not found a spaceship in the swamp yet. You know, show me that. And I really feel like my energy is going to gather around that intention and that spaceship's going out, don't you worry! So, you know, there was that. And then you know, a little later it was the Karate kid and it was Mr. Miyagi. And I watched Mr. Miyagi do his little clap with his hands and heal Daniel san's knee or whatever the thing was. I want to do that too. That was this total again, similar, just energy, right, working with energy, and really just got totally lit up and turned on and never looked back.
[00:14:06] I remember the next thing I started learning about was telekinesis and parapsychology and all these things. And I was like this kid running around and trying to get my friends to do the seance and the board, like anything right. Light as a feather, like just going all into that. And you know, sometimes it worked well other times, it was the reputation I had to withstand for years, and then fast forward to like, if you will what the muggles will call real life. I went to high school and they didn't have an option for these things.
[00:14:42] Laure: For witchcraft and...
[00:14:44] Kim: I know, nothing! So I ended up deciding, in those moments, what really came through in my life was I was either going to be a doctor or a psychologist.
[00:14:54] Laure: Um,
[00:14:55] Kim: And so that didn't work out at all. And here I am doing this work that is absolutely this mind body, without a doubt, and energetic.
[00:15:07] So that would be my story to what I found this work through massage therapy is where I ended up going to school after high school. And, again, I feel like this beautiful piece of never doubting this work for a minute. And I tried the whole deal, bending forks with my mind and all that, and that it never really worked, I'm not going to lie, I've never lifted things off of the table with my mind. Of course it's possible to me, you know, I have tried to walk through walls, right. But I am so open still in these moments of my life at this point, and it only continues to grow to all of the possibilities of energy and all of the possibilities of alchemy. However you want to put it and I find the opportunity within my work to explore that every day and I feel so grateful. It's not everybody that gets that opportunity. And for me, at least I think it's a cool opportunity. So I feel super grateful to have that available and to get the minute little discoveries about energy that come from this work and consciousness every day. And yeah, that's my story.
[00:16:21] Laure: Well, I, can relate cause I remember, watching the Empire strikes backs. I remember the movies as well, but for me I think it came more through books in a way. And I remember reading Matilda when I was very, very young, which is a Roald Dahl book where a little girl starts moving things with her eyes with her mind. lot of time looking at pencils, trying to make them move with the strength of my mind. So I completely relate to that. And I think I've lost, personally I know I've lost some of the trusts that I had, I guess in invisible things.
[00:16:55] And that seems crazy to say that because basically all my work revolves around invisible things, but, you know, I think as I grow older, I go towards my Virgo rising which is like, ah, you know, reality, reality, reality. I don't really mind. I think one of the things that I came to do is to actually really go into, do the opposite journey, I guess, which is come from energy and really go into matter, really anchor in there. But I've heard, I totally believe that all this is possible, partly because I've heard so many stories from Betsy Bergstrom who was my teacher and who has billions of stories. And also because I've witnessed things actually with my own eyes in her classes that are physically impossible. And so once you start having those experiences, you can't deny, there's nothing, you know, that you can say, or you can't be like, oh, that was like an optical illusion.
[00:17:52] No no, you have an object that has changed size you can't like, that's not, you know, so, so I really, I really understand that, that attraction and that belief that what we understand as reality is a very limited understanding of what is possible and how can you expand that?
[00:18:13] And I think for that shamanic stories in general, really help people expand, regardless of where you're standing in terms of reality, like what is real and what is not real,
[00:18:26] Kim: Yeah,
[00:18:28] Laure: Sham a shamanic approach to the world as if everything is living and shamanic stories that you can share with people that have that, I guess that viewpoint on the world can really help expand people's definition of reality and kind of like make way for things that they would otherwise not think possible or not make space for in their understanding.
[00:18:56] Kim: I think you're right. I think also it's something like, once you see it in one area of your life, it breaks open that whole plane I would say. Let's say you see something shapeshift in size. I think it opens up, not the idea only that something can shapeshift in size, but that there are many other things that could be possible that just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. You know? I love that too.
[00:19:21] Laure: Yeah. of course, because the moment that you see matter change shape in whatever way without intervention, then everything is possible. Our understanding of matter then has to shift dramatically.
[00:19:38] Kim: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Laure: Our understanding of matter is something that cannot change state or shape without an external intervention. Like if I want my staff to be shorter, I have to cut it. I can't just like ask Odin and have it shrink it 20 or 10 inches or 15 inches.
[00:19:54] Kim: Right, right. right.
[00:19:57] Laure: And then that becomes really interesting, you know, and, I don't spend a lot of time in these fields and I think partly because part of me believes or intuits that if I spend too much time in this field is going to become really difficult to be a human being. So I actually came to be a human being.
[00:20:14] Kim: There you go. I love that. I love that you can honor that for yourself. That's, to me is a great, healthy boundary and awareness. Cause again, in some ways there's a temptation there, right?
[00:20:25] Laure: Yeah. I mean, I've spent like half my life wanting to go back where I came from.
[00:20:31] Kim: That's right.
[00:20:31] Laure: What am I doing here? Like, This is the wrong planet. I'm the kid who used to read The little prince and sob and be like, oh, I have to go back to my planet.
[00:20:43] Kim: That was on my list too, Laure, just to say, if there was a book, it was the little prince as far as stories go so I appreciate that.
[00:20:50] Laure: Yeah, exactly. So it took me so long to kind of get to a place where I feel excited about being a human being.
[00:20:58] Kim: yeah.
[00:20:58] Laure: And I can't say like every day,
[00:21:00] Kim: Right.
[00:21:01] Laure: Like right now, this period of time, not really, I wake up in the morning, I'm like, oh my God, what do you mean? I gotta be an adult. But you know I do feel like I've come to a place where I'm really excited experiencing life on earth. And am really aware that no matter what I'm going to go back. I shouldn't, I shouldn't rush it like this is, this is like a in a many lifetimes experience of having this life and this body and the abilities that I have and the relationships that I have and, and to be able to perceive this material reality, which is so fun, really.
[00:21:38] Kim: No, I, listen. I a hundred percent. I'm vision questing this year in Ireland, I'm going to go with Heather my teacher. An I'm vision questing four days out on the land, no food, no water, no talking any of that, you know the drill, but that's my intention actually going into there is this piece that you're speaking to this idea of, I used to have this, well, if I have to live here, then you know, if I've got to be here, then I'll do this, this and this, but shut up a little bit, that's where I'm at too.
[00:22:08] And I just love hearing that medicine articulated. You just told me a story. You told me your story, and I feel so heard and met and related to, in something that feels completely obscure to find people speaking about in such an authentic way and in a conscious way, one that I can absolutely hear that you've explored this deeply for years.
[00:22:33] Laure: I had to, because it was so painful to be a person and I so didn't know how to be a person. Like, I was blessed and cursed with extreme lucidity since I was a child, I want to say baby, but I don't remember but probably really young. I used to be a performer. I danced for years, and then I was an actress and. And I did that, partly because I had this dream of being this famous performer, like every teenager, I think most teenagers have at some point. And also I enjoyed the work, but also because consciously I was thinking, okay, what's the fastest way to learn how to be in a body? Well, I'm going to go and take dance classes. I'm going to dance 25 hours a day. Then I have to learn what does it mean to be in a body? Like how can I be in this body in a way that is gracious and feels... It wasn't like ballet, I would never have done that. I did hip hop. I did jazz. I did belly dancing, which was, how do you learn how to be in a female body? How do you get comfortable being in this? And so dance was my way to that.
[00:23:40] And then acting, I was like, okay, next, next step in being a human being, how do you get comfortable with having emotions and interacting with other people?
[00:23:51] Well, acting school seems like a good point a to point B. And that was the second part of it. And it was great. I don't think I could have gone as fast if I hadn't done that consciously and said, okay, I'm going to learn how to be a human. And what's the best way to learn how to be a humanist to learn, to be an artist, because you have to be in interaction with people. You have to be in deep interaction with people. You have to explore all of the range of emotions and experience, and you can borrow other people's experiences to experience them. And, you know, and I didn't really move far away when I started to do constellations.
[00:24:29] Kim: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Laure: It's also, you know, it has that aspect of very interaction based modality, very human, very diverse. I love that field cause it's like, it's one of the most diverse fields that have met in any kind of alternative healing, at least in the U S like, I can't speak for other countries, but in terms of community, it's so diverse. There are men, there are people of color, there are all ages. There's like, the whole range of humanity you find in constellation circles and facilitators and trainings. And it was the same. It was like, how do you step into somebody else's shoes so that you can feel what it is to be a human being and like many different states.
[00:25:13] Kim: Yeah. That's a great way to, I, yeah, I had never thought of it that way, especially with constellation work but it's totally true. That makes so much more available.
[00:25:27] Laure: It's kinda magical. I remember I was in Francesca Mason Boring training, there was this constellation going on and it was really complex constellation with a multi-layered, you know, different generations at the same time, in the same people, the same representatives.
[00:25:45] And I was representing somebody and I probably simultaneously I was in a concentration camp and I was on a boat boat immigrating. Like there was a number of things happening at the same time in my body. And I remember feeling this fear. That I'd never felt so afraid in my life. I felt like I would rather die than feel that afraid. And I remember feeling it and being in that experience of feeling that , and having that thought of first, like, I wish this all, no one, like really, no matter what happened to me, as a person that was representing, no one should feel that way.
[00:26:22] And the second thought was like, Wow I'm so lucky to be able to feel that cause that's really gonna help me help people who have PTSD. If I have clients who have that, cause I haven't experienced it myself. I have nervous system dysregulation like everybody else, but that amount of terror, I'd never felt. And so how amazing is that to be able to feel, maybe people would not think it's amazing, but it's like,
[00:26:51] Kim: It's that paradigm, it's just growing the paradigm. And it is that thing about making a new relationship to being in a human experience. That's what I hear in that piece. And what else can we do, but make relationship to things in our lives unless we want to go around in conflict and denial and all this stuff all day long every day, you know, there's medicine in that too, whatever. But...
[00:27:19] Laure: But we're not very excited by it.
[00:27:21] Kim: No, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Small life. Yeah. Hmm.
[00:27:27] Laure: I feel like that intention of vision questing and anchoring deeper in the human experience is a really good way of you know, living in a richer life in a way.
[00:27:40] Kim: I agree. And I mean, it's been a journey of coming from a place of wanting to not be here. Not wanting to be here to okay, well, it's okay here, whatever. And then it's like, oh, and now I have a few kids and I want to be here for them I want to enjoy them. Circling around and around and around and getting down to this space of, well, guess what, your kids are gone, your needs are met or whatever the deal is like day to day. And you still have however many years left on this planet.
[00:28:13] How do you want to relate to them? For me, I've always been a little bit easily satisfied, we'll say, as far as the material, to get motivated or inspired is not easy for me. I'm totally cool just sit and relax and be still, you know, and there is life out there. You don't want to throw away the good with the bad and to be able to find a way and make relationship with the places that for me get just enough crunchy to them where I can say, okay, just shut down. Just, you know, go back to your book or whatever Netflix I'm binge-watching whatever, instead of just going through that piece and finding gratitude really for me. I can be grateful for the things that sustain my life, but what if I'm grateful for life? That's kind of where I want to be now. I've totally come like I said, from the depths of this: I don't even want life to this place where okay, I'm grateful that this is getting met, I'm grateful that the kids they're sustaining themselves, grateful for my clients for my job. What about if I'm grateful for life? I always kind of like, listen this sounds like a jerk kind of thing to say, people who actually have this, I'm like, they're on Prozac.
[00:29:33] I know it. Or they are like, you know, there's no way that people just wake up happy to go face their life every day that's B.S., no way! But, you know what I think maybe I should stop thinking that, maybe I should question that. And I honor why I thought that, I can understand what would bring me to those thoughts in my life and or those beliefs forget about thought, I, a hundred percent believe it and it's not true, just not true. That's what I want to believe now. And that's what I want to live now.
[00:30:11] Laure: I completely relate to everything that you were saying, because gratitude has been a focus for the past few months for me, and especially exploring my resistance to it. Cause I definitely had big resistance to it, which I understand, when I understood where it came from, which is having been told a lot that I should be grateful, but as a child, like having pain kind of denied because I should grateful. It makes it harder then to really appreciate, you know? When I understood that, that made it really easier to go there. And I really feel what you're saying about, that thing about people being happy all the time, like being happy with life. People being loving also like that was that something that's really not natural for me, that I'm also working on kind of 24 /7.
[00:31:01] And I look at these people and part of me says , that's fake that cannot be true. And then you meet people who you cannot deny that it's true. And that kind of circles back to the idea of like, how are you going to resource yourself from people who are modeling stuff that you don't have? I'm thinking of Francesca and I'm thinking of Gary. And I'm thinking of some of my teachers. And Francesca is the first, because she was the first person that I met that I was like, wow, that's really possible to be like that. And also because she had such a hard life in a way, and she still finds so much delight. You know to witness somebody love life so much and love people so much. I was blown away. I was like, how is that possible? Somebody of that maturity, of that destiny , not like a 20 year old being like love and light, that's like a completely differently thing, but completely embodied in our reality and who delights in everything, including the bad, like including the hurt, and that was such a eye opener for me, or, or at least it changed the idea of what was possible as a human being.
[00:32:15] And I was like, oh, okay, well, if she can do it, if that's possible, I can see it a lot of days for a year and it's constant and something that's there. I'm like, okay, then it's attainable then as a human being.
[00:32:29] Kim: Yeah, also listening to you too reminds me when it comes to gratitude as well. This is my own experience, when I started really being with energy and consciousness and being shown things that maybe aren't available to everybody to like, you know, with these eyes or what have you.
[00:32:48] And really getting that sense when it was broken open that this world is not as limited as our minds think it is that there's a whole nother universe, there is a universe, there are deep universal truths, what we consider the magic is like a blink of an eye and a creator.
[00:33:06] Right. You know, it's not, it's when all of this became normalized for me a little bit. I think. It also made it hard for me to be grateful to be here. I kind of was like this idea we were talking about, take me home, where's my other planet? The one where come from where, you know, there's not this drudgery here or this or whatever the crap is, you know?
[00:33:29] This journey has not been one of just like hating life as much as it is about having this knowing for myself not there's something better, but there's more, you know, and being able to swim in the experience of there's something more, it made it hard to be grateful sometimes. And I want to change that, this is part of the experience the universe that's available to us. So what about taking a minute? Because it's just a minute
[00:34:01] Laure: Exactly.
[00:34:02] Kim: In the grand scheme of it and just, you know, doing the thing and checking it out and being okay with the fact that like, it's so human for us to be somewhere we're not, come on. But what about being here?
[00:34:17] Laure: Yeah. And what about, you know, I know there's more, but I don't know what more is but from my understanding and the texts that I've read and stuff, this is kind of the only plane where we can actually manifest things in matter and get our hands dirty in a way.
[00:34:31] Kim: Yeah. Cool.
[00:34:33] Laure: Which kind of brings me to my other question, which is what's your relationship to creativity in your work or in your life?
[00:34:40] Kim: Yeah, yeah. Creativity. It's interesting when I think about that and, you know, I'll try to articulate, but for some reason it comes to travel. I come to this place about traveling and I come to this thing about when I wake up in a new country or a new culture and it's a blank slate. It's a clean slate. I've never lived this moment and that's all of life, but there's something about travel for me, where I get to go, usually in those spaces where I'm traveling there's space, you know, I'm not obligated to this or to that. Like I prefer that I never plan when I go on a vacation: okay. Today we are going to go to the great wall. I don't do that thing. I just wake up and it's very spontaneous for me. And that's for me, that place of creativity to go create an experience. I've always just felt that those moments just end up... Traveling, getting out of your normal routine, being in something new, being in something that has all the possibilities, because you don't know what to expect, or you don't have a thought around what it should look like.
[00:35:49] It creates just such an emplace of growth inside of myself as well. And I feel that when I come home from these kinds of journeys, then I feel like that's so much more medicine to bring to people too. I have a hard time to put it into words, there's something about the newness, about the unknown, about being able to be organic to the moment and to be able to take that back and sit with the process of it all the creation emerges. And for me, it emerges so much in my office. That's one of the places where I get to be with other and we're in an exploration and there is a certain amount of mirroring that goes on. And so when I come home and I start working again after journeying, then ultimately this creation of where I just came from, tends to show up for days or weeks after. Does that make any sense? Like that's, that's one of the places.
[00:36:53] Laure: Absolutely. It makes complete sense to me cause I'm struggling with not being able to travel, really struggling right now. I also understand that sense of space that opens up and again, it widens your understanding of the world and of reality and of what's possible, and of yourself also as a human being, because being a stranger is great. When you're an actual stranger, especially when you feel like a stranger on earth, then when you go to a place where you're an actual stranger something in that that's really relaxing.
[00:37:24] Kim: Yes.
[00:37:24] Laure: Suddenly it's congruent, you know, with how you feel and you can behave congruently. I'm a stranger when I go to Japan and I'm like, I don't know what the politeness thing is, you know? Like what should I do there and what, and there's no problem with that because I'm seen as a stranger. Whereas when you're in your own country and you feel like a stranger to earth and you have to act as if you're not that's straining, you know.
[00:37:52] Kim: I swear when you say this, it takes me to this. I don't want to say I actually wished this, but I wished that I was out on the streets because nobody expects me to be acting like in this normal societal way. I could just go on in my own little world where I felt like, okay, I don't know how to feel met in life a lot of times. And so there, I don't need that place. Everybody just expects me to be the stranger.
[00:38:18] Laure: Yeah, no, I totally get it. You know, when you talk about madness also, there's that notion of that's just people who have in a way, given up trying to fit it, to match, which I find really interesting, you know, have madness in my family and always thought that that was an option for me, which I thought, you know, I don't believe really anymore, but what I remember when I was younger, I could feel that kind of very thin wall that you can cross, feel like, okay, I'm done with this.
[00:38:51] Kim: Right. Yes. I know what you're talking about.
[00:38:56] Laure: You know, it's a heavy fate and I honor people who lived that as a human experience I don't really want to go there anymore. I'm finding more pleasure than I used to in being just being,
[00:39:07] Kim: Cheers. Me too.
[00:39:09] Laure: Yeah, but I, I totally understand that notion of travel that really creates more activity in a way and creates more space for you to be, and to be creative. I tend to create with material as you know. I say that that's not completely true because a lot of my creativity goes into creating spaces for people. That's for sure. Actually that's where most of my creativity goes is like, how can I create a container around this or around that or on the other? But yeah, I work with thread most of the time. Because I work with thread and I'm always interested in thread metaphors, cause I think they're powerful and they speak to me. So what threads are you weaving in your life? Where are the main threads that you focus on?
[00:39:54] Kim: I would say freedom probably be right on top, always has been it's the Aquarius in me so that, you know, for me, it will manifest if I'm lucky, like everywhere. I love to be able to make my own schedule. I love to be able to decide what goes in or out of it. I love, you know, the travel piece. I really just think that it's very hard for me to think that I would have to do something that I don't want to do on a daily basis. That just makes me freak out, you know, just, and, you know, and then I think the beauty of what we've been talking about so much here is a way to gain this freedom is to make new relationship to things, and that has been very, very much a motivation for me to do my own work so that I can actually feel free , and make my own freedom in whatever way that that would look like.
[00:40:56] So freedom would be one. I would say nature is definitely in the top three. Even just saying the word when I just think nature, my heart opens, I want to go lay down on the earth. I become a different person. To me that feels so much, I don't even know how to say it. Like the person I want to be, I want to be nature. So
[00:41:23] Laure: Yeah, no,
[00:41:24] Kim: Like I just do, and I mean, I am right. And I think we forget that a little and one of the ways actually, interestingly, another way that I use story in work that I've been taught so well. And I aspire to by my teacher, Heather is the reflection of life in nature, like our processes and our life processes show up in nature.
[00:41:46] I mean, as a simple example, if you just go through the four seasons, you know how there's always the beginning, there's the challenge and the struggle, the plot, right. And then there's like the fall, like that's the summer, then there's the fall where it's all coming to an end and you say your goodbyes and you're letting it go.
[00:42:05] And then there's a winter where there's, it's done and there's nothing, you know? I have such reverence and such a need, it's the thing nature for me, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last piece, I think, really that it's about truth or seeking, just like this know yourself and also , as above, so below kind of truth. I know that by knowing myself, I know creator and I want to always be in truth. I love the truth. Nothing else serves me like the truth.
[00:42:40] Laure: Yeah, I relate to that a lot for better or for worse.
[00:42:45] Kim: I, yeah. Right. I talk about this in my relationships. I don't care what you want to bring to our relationship. I don't care what you share. I don't care. That part isn't important. It's the part is, is that it's the truth. I can deal with whatever you want to bring as long as you're bringing the truth, that is so much more important. I completely have appreciation and tolerance and reverence and admiration, humility, and honor for the human experience and how we show up in our lives and how we can have shame around it or how we want to be better or whatever the deal is.
[00:43:21] Great. So let's just work with that. Let's just be truthful, like a little, you know, and of course it is easy for me to sit here and blah, blah, blah, talk it.
[00:43:34] Laure: I think it's hard for everybody and we all have masks, and sometimes we don't even know where the masks finishes and where we start. That's a question that I'm always asking is how much of me is real, you know, how much of what I present. I feel that most of it is true and real, but I also know that it's impossible. You have to have a social mask in a way, cause we're so complex. There would be no way to show everything outside of ourselves that is inside of ourselves. So we have to pick and choose all the time. But I completely relate to that idea of, truth in the sense that I have very little tolerance for untruth and I've gotten better with time. But when I was younger, I was terrible because I would just pierce through people's defenses, which was not a very nice thing to do. Cause I didn't understand, you know, why people had their defenses in the first place.
[00:44:27] Kim: Yeah.
[00:44:27] Laure: Now I'm much more careful I guess, and I do it for good reason and with a lot of care. Um, but I grew up being very aggravated with that idea that, you know, you had to pretend to believe what people were showing you, you know?
[00:44:48] And I, that got me in a lot of trouble, especially with adults obviously when I was a child,
[00:44:53] Kim: I can see it. I have a picture of it.
[00:44:56] Laure: I don't believe a thing that you're saying to me, this is all bullshit. And that didn't go over well, as you might imagine.
[00:45:06] Kim: The elders do not want to be called out. That's for sure. Especially when it's true.
[00:45:12] Laure: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:14] Kim: I hear you.
[00:45:15] Laure: Yeah. But I do think that truth is an issue and like, truth is actually a really big issue right now. And it's really interesting that idea, because I think there's a good distinction to make between truth and control, because I feel that naturally human beings look for what is true, but in order to have control in a way, and that's what's happening right now is like, it's really hard to find what's true. You can't really have a clear vision of anything. And so people kind of hold on to what they believe is true, because that gives them some control while the actual truth behind all of this is that we don't have control. And again, we are helpless in the face of fate. And so really uncomfortable, how do you hold that as a daily basis as a human being, because triggers unsafety, which is for a human being is not a very comfortable experience. And most people don't have the capacity for really, because they're still operating under a physiology that was built in childhood that, you know, makes it impossible to hold the idea of being unsafe.
[00:46:22] Kim: right.
[00:46:23] Laure: And so that truth is
[00:46:27] Kim: Well, yeah, for sure. I hear all that. For some reason, when you say that it reminds me of one of the teachings that Heather, my teacher brought to me, that is all truths are but half truths. And I kind of heard that in there, it's like, you know, it's because all we really have is our own truth when it comes down to it.
[00:46:52] Right. And so when you're trying to get to the truth of the matter with other all truths are half-truths right. So I think that honoring every moment of every person's life that has led them to this moment right now, that is their truth, the truth that we will never ever be able to understand fully. We could listen and we can get an idea around it. And I think that there's something that is so elusive for us to know the full truth ever, duh.
[00:47:24] Laure: It's impossible. I don't really believe that's possible. That's why it's interesting to examine the idea truth because I don't think we know anything. I wanna know, I want to know everything. If you ask me, I know everything, you know, I come, certainly I have the solution for everything and everything,
[00:47:39] Kim: Right.
[00:47:40] Laure: But the reality and the truth behind that is. that really I don't. And no one does, we don't even understand how life works.
[00:47:47] Kim: Yeah.
[00:47:47] Laure: So there's no way to understand, from a human perspective, I don't think there's a way to have a global view of the universe and how it works.
[00:47:57] Kim: Right,
[00:47:58] Laure: I'm sure people have glimpses and all the different cosmologies and belief systems and stuff come from people who have glimpses, you can't really see the whole thing. Your brain would implode even if you just had an awareness of how your whole body is functioning, your brain would implode. So for me, It's interesting to understand the truth in a, in a non-cognitive way, in a way. And I pretty sure that's what you were referring to when you were talking about it.
[00:48:27] Kim: You know, I just want to know who I am and I want to be truthful to myself, well as just being open to whatever the universal truths are, using that term loosely. That for me has a sense of home and familiarity and that oneness kind of thing. So it's the seeker really? You know, that piece about seeking. Yeah.
[00:48:56] Laure: Well, we're coming slowly to the end.
[00:48:59] Kim: Wow. God, girl we went everywhere.
[00:49:02] Laure: We can keep going for another two hours probably, but you know, you'll have to come back.
[00:49:07] Kim: I would love to then also, I literally feel like I just journeyed through like a million different planes with you or I bet you've never heard that one before.
[00:49:17] Laure: Yeah, I love that. That was great conversation. I really enjoyed it. I thought I thought it had a great flow of like, oh, let's go there. Let's go there, but that's there. And so the last place where I'm going to take us is the last question that I ask people, which is, when do you feel closer to your own soul? And when do you feel closer to other people's soul? If it's not the same.
[00:49:40] Kim: Right. So it's a great question, it's a really great question. Let's just say that. Cause I'm not quite sure I have landed on an answer there yet. And what I would say for myself, I feel , it's actually in times of challenge or struggle or friction, that I'm reminded that I have a soul.
[00:50:08] Like it's a funny thing. Like, like I was talking about with nature or whatever people may say, oh, when I'm in nature or whatever. But when I'm in nature, I actually. My physical more like I'm able to be here more there. Right. And I think for me, there's something about when I am in a place that is extremely uncomfortable or challenging that maybe that's when I kind of shoot out and I can become aware.
[00:50:33] Oh yeah. And there's a remembrance of who I really am. That happens during that time. I'm not my problem. I'm not whatever projected solution or failure or whatever, you know, I'm here. Hi. So I think that that would be my answer. The best one I can give you in the moment for my own soul and for others, it usually comes in a one-on-one space of stillness.
[00:51:04] Whether it is in intimate space, just like cuddling or whether... I think about breastfeeding my children too this eye contact, this very connected " it's just us". In session, when it's that stillness, that still point, you know. When I talk about it, it kind of feels like it disappears the material matter kind of world that we live in and again, I'm taken back to the oneness and to the drop in the ocean or the ocean and drop or that whole story. Yeah.
[00:51:43] Laure: Yeah,
[00:51:44] Kim: Right.
[00:51:47] Laure: Makes me want to disappear into that ocean. Yeah. So right there, the little drop waiting to fall.
[00:52:01] Kim: Oh, yeah, love it.
[00:52:04] Laure: So good. Well, thank you so much for this time and for this conversation.
[00:52:12] Kim: I'm grateful as well. Thank you. Like allowing me to get to know myself a little more through this space. I mean it.
[00:52:19] Laure: That's what I do.
[00:52:20] Kim: I know. You're amazing at it!
[00:52:25] I love you. I'm grateful for you.
[00:52:30] Laure: Well, I'm super grateful for you. I had a really great time.
[00:52:33] Kim: Yeah. Good me too.