In this episode, I talk about the stories we embody, and how we can change them by learning from others. Imagining different ways to be in the world does not happen in isolation, and there are many ways you can resource from the people around you.
Get notified when the Silken Mirror membership opens in 2023 : http://eepurl.com/dxzCk9
Follow us on Instagram @moonlitpathchannel
This podcast is hosted by Laure Porché: http://laureporche.com. You can follow me on Instagram @laureporche
If you're enjoying the podcast, consider sharing it or leaving a review on Apple Podcast :)
In this episode, I talk about the stories we embody, and how we can change them by learning from others. Imagining different ways to be in the world does not happen in isolation, and there are many ways you can resource from the people around you.
Get notified when the Silken Mirror membership opens in 2023 : http://eepurl.com/dxzCk9
Follow us on Instagram @moonlitpathchannel
This podcast is hosted by Laure Porché: http://laureporche.com. You can follow me on Instagram @laureporche
If you're enjoying the podcast, consider sharing it or leaving a review on Apple Podcast :)
[00:00:00] Laure: Hello, everyone. I hope this year is starting well for you. Here it's a foggy and cold day, one of those days where I'm happy to be able to stay inside and catch up on work.
[00:00:16] Now to start off this episode, I want to say that I've heard from several of you how much you enjoyed this podcast and that made me very happy. It really warms my heart when I hear that this is worthwhile for you, and I want to encourage you if you have subjects that you would like to hear me talk about, or if you know people that would be great guests for the podcast to not hesitate to contact me directly, either with feedback, requests, or guests suggestions. And you can contact me either through the Moonlit Path website - there is a contact form on the signup page - or you can contact me through my personal website, which is laureporche.com. There's contact forms pretty much everywhere on that website.
[00:01:19] And I will be very, very happy to hear from you. And if you are enjoying the podcast and you want to take a few minutes to leave a review on Apple podcast, or maybe recommend it to a friend I would be very grateful. Because obviously, I make this for people to listen to it. And it always makes me very happy when this thing that I'm recording by myself in my living room makes people happy. And I love to hear how you share it then talk about it with friends and families , and how this becomes something around which you have conversations and bonding, because ultimately my search and my goal is for connection. And so the idea that this podcast may be a mean of connection for you and the people you love, that makes me really happy.
[00:02:14] Today's episode and today's subject is brought about by two things. One is that my friend Mark Johnson who was a shamanic constellation facilitator and who had been living in France for a few years passed away a few weeks ago.
[00:02:36] And the second is a conversation I had with a client not long ago where he was wondering about relationships and I guess how to learn how to relate differently than what he was doing. And so those two things made me want to do an episode about how we all need to learn different stories than the ones that we've learned growing up. And it might be relationally, like, we learn to relate a certain way to other people and it's almost impossible to learn to relate a different way if you don't see it in somebody else.
[00:03:17] And for me it's very relational. It might be different for you. It might be stories about work or it might be stories about whatever it is, but we learn stories about what it is to be a human being on this earth from the people who raised us and the people who surrounded us as we were growing up. And very often, we're not aware how powerful these stories are and how potentially difficult it is to change them because it takes embodied experience of a different way of being to really believe that it's possible. Cause that's the thing, you know, if you were raised with certain type of story, for instance, relationally, then more or less consciously, you believe that that's the only possible thing, that's the only possible way to be for you. In terms of being a human being and being in the world and relating to others, it's really hard to imagine something that you've never seen because those things are so hardwired into our brain and our physiology.
[00:04:28] And so it takes really having a physical, tangible experience of a different way to start believing that it's possible. And so the first thing that, that brought me to that subject is that you know, my friend mark died a few weeks ago and I went to his cremation last week. And I didn't spend a lot of time with him as a person in this lifetime but the time that we spent was really intense and really engaged, and I was reflecting on really what drew me to him or what I felt he brought me by just being himself. And I recognized that there was something in the way that he held the immense power that he had that I had not seen before and that really spoke to me that I really wanted to kind of emulate. I wanted to be in the presence of that story of how can you hold that much power gracefully while still remaining accessible to everybody. That was something that I had not seen before and that I hadn't been able to imagine for myself and that I'm really grateful to him for modeling, by his life and by who he was.
[00:05:49] And I think I've always kind of learned by osmosis by seeing someone who had a way of being that I wanted to reach towards and by learning by being in their field. But that was never very conscious until I studied with Francesca who was on this podcast a few months back. And I remember watching her be with other people and feeling this tremendous sense of opening and of possibility that I would not have thought was possible. When I, I saw her interact with the people I thought, wow, it's possible. It's possible to be that way, to be in relationship in that way, at the same time, have impeccable boundaries and be fully compassionate and available for people. It's not either or, here's someone who can hold both at the same time. And I spent enough time with her that that story replaced the story I had, which was either you lose yourself in being available for other people, or you cut yourself off from people so that you can maintain your integrity.
[00:07:06] And I feel that's really important to be aware of that we can't do it alone. And, you know, I might say this a lot, it might be something that's kind of like recurring in this podcast at some point, but I believed for the larger part of my life and I still believe at some level, you know, there's some things that are physiologically really hard to detach from yourself.
[00:07:29] But I lived a great part of my life believing that I had to do it alone, whatever it was. I had to figure it out by myself. And that belief didn't keep me from looking for people to help me. But I didn't intrinsically believe that they could, you know, it's just something that's like, you set yourself up for disappointment or you have this kind of ambivalence of overwhelming expectations while at the same time believing that you're completely alone, which creates a lot of tension, a lot of inner tension.
[00:08:05] But the more that I walked in professional fields that were full of people who were relationally way more evolved than I was and had a capacity to be with other human beings that was way above mine, the more I walked in those fields and I interacted with these people and the more I understood that, really this is something that you have to learn. And you can't learn it by yourself, at least when it comes to relationships. I think we all think, and especially if you're coming from a relationship model, that is I'm not gonna say dysfunctional, but that has some issues then most likely you believe that you are the one who has a problem or the others are the one who had the problem, that either way you should be able to figure out a better way to be, a better way to interact. And that's actually not possible. You have to see it happening, you have to hear the story or see the story for yourself. You have to have real people show you that there is another way, that it is possible. They have to make you feel by watching them or being around them, your mirror neurons and your physiology start integrating a different way, or at least the possibility of a different way.
[00:09:23] So I know this podcast is about story and this might seem like a different kind of story, but actually you know, it's the story of what's possible. And again, I talk mostly relationally because I think relationships are everything, I think life is relationship.
[00:09:42] I think being human is all about relationships, whether it's with people or with things or with yourself. It's always the same, your happiness will depend upon how well you can relate both to yourself and to others. And so that relational story, you start learning very early. You start learning during gestation, probably and most certainly from the time that you're born. And that's the first thing that you learn is the relational story. That's the first thing that you're told or that you're shown that you feel is the relational story of the people who are raising you and whatever it is, recognizing that the relational story that you live in is not sustainable or it's not conducive to happiness is not necessarily a judgment on your parents or your family or the people who raised you. It's just a fact, you know, that it's very rare actually, to be raised by people who are healthy in terms of relationships and relating.
[00:10:48] And that's just a by-product of many people having had to overcome incredibly difficult odds in order to survive and for you to be here . And so that they survived is enough. It's a big deal. And it's okay, or it's expected that they might not have been able to survive while maintaining a way to relate that is healthy because probably in order to survive, they had to create adaptive behaviors. In constellation we say that any family dysfunction was actually at some point function of survival and it got passed down or that story became told to every child that was born through the body and through the behavior of people. And so that becomes a family dysfunction at some point, because it's not relevant to survival anymore, but it keeps going where originally it was a function of survival. So we all come from that, we all come from families and people that were more or less dysfunctional, relationally speaking. And it's really important to be aware of that and to also know that you can't solve a relational problem in isolation. And so you do need to have models, and some people are very aware of that or look for that very early on. And the danger of that would be that you would want to become your model, you would want basically to not be yourself, which is different from what I'm talking about. And other people develop a fierce sense of independence and be like, "no, I don't want to be inspired by anyone, I'm myself. I'm self-contained", which is the other extreme of that. But I think there's a midway, which is to actively look for people who have developed a relational quality that you are looking to emulate. And there are people like that. They're not that many people like that, but there are. But if you look for them and you're aware, you know, you're aware that you're looking for a different way and a different story, and you're aware of what in your relational story, what is not working for you. And you're like, okay, this is not working for me and I would like to find a different way to relate, but I can't really imagine it unless I see it. And then it's really important... and that's a lot what therapists do, right? By the way that we are with people, we teach them that that kind of relationship is possible. That's our role to have good boundaries and to model something that is healthy relationally speaking. And it's not always the case, unfortunately, but that's a big part of a good therapist role is just to model what a healthy, secure relationship looks like.
[00:13:43] I think people who show you a different way to be, and people who show you a different story about being human and being in a relationship are so important, they're capital. It's capital to have people like that in your life. And they might be people you know, and you're really around. But they might also be, you know, that's what, in a way, that's kind of like what gurus are for, and that's what spiritual leaders also can become for people is this kind of model.
[00:14:15] The problem with that, the problem with gurus and spiritual leaders, and revered teachers is that very often people think that they can't emulate them. You know, there's something about, "oh, this is the master and I'm the lowly student. And yes, they have a different way to be, but I can only look up to them".
[00:14:37] That's where I think we are mistaken in a way. Cause I think most people, most teachers have a very long road to get to where they are and that precisely, they didn't think, "oh, I can't possibly get there. I'm just gonna sit here and bask in the elevation of other people".
[00:15:02] And that's the tricky part and that's kind of why gurus become gurus in the bad sense of the word. Good gurus become bad gurus. And I think it's really important to find people that you can really think to yourself: "okay, in 20 years or in 10 years or in five years, depending on how old you are and how old the person is and what's going on for them. But to think " oh, in five years, in 10 years, 20 years I want to have the same quality, the same relational quality as that person. I want to be able to have as much space for myself and for other people". I'm talking about this because this is what I focus on, relational quality, but for you it might be whatever you want. Which is like, I want to be able to be fully confident in who I am and what I do without being overbearing, or it can be like, I want to be able to let my creativity completely flow without being self-conscious or having self judgment. And if you find someone who embodies that and you can think, "oh, wow, okay this is really, this is the quality that I'm looking for. This is the story that I want to start telling with my own body". That's the thing, we tell stories with our bodies. I'm talking to you right now with my voice, obviously and I'm telling a lot of words and hopefully some of the story that I'm telling with my body is coming through my words. But my words are not that important. It's the way that I have to reach you because this is an audio program, but what's really important is the quality of the energy and the embodiment that I'm trying to put into my life, I'm trying to have in my life.
[00:16:50] And I'm hoping, and I believe that it comes through that channel of my voice, of my recorded voice to you. So that's the thing, what stories do you want to tell with your body? That would be the first thing is to define that.
[00:17:08] And I'm not saying now, cause this is a kind of a long process to get, generally it's a long process. Because the stories you are already telling and you want to keep that's great. You know, you don't have to work at that. You're already embodied. We all have things that we embody naturally, and that are great and that we shouldn't lose, that we should absolutely keep, that are part of our qualities and our life history and our richness and what we can bring others. Those are great. And then we all have stories that we would like to shift, or we would like to change, or we would like to start telling a different story with our body.
[00:17:45] And so that would be the first thing, what story do you want to end up telling with your body, if you can imagine yourself in 10 years or 20 years, regardless of your line of work or your like... Whatever's important for you in your life? You know, for me, what's important to me in my life is my work for one.
[00:18:06] But more than my work and encompassing my work what's important for me is to go deeper and deeper into real human connection and make more and more space for my heart in my life. And those two things are not natural for me. They're things that I have to work at, all the time. Like it's not something that comes, "oh, I get up in the morning and I'm loving and I have capacity for other people and I'm not judging and I have ease in my relationships". That's not a thing for me, I wouldn't say it's a struggle, but it demands a lot of focus and presence to be able to do that. That's what's important for me, but you can take anything that's important for you that might be completely different. That might be about creation, might be about freedom, it might be about fun and laughter, there's many options, and start really defining: "okay what stories do I want to tell with my body in 10 years time? And is there anyone around me that I can look at that embody what I'm aiming towards. And of course you're never going to be like that person, but you can certainly borrow some of their vibrational quality or you can feel in your body. Okay. What does it feel like when I'm with that person?
[00:19:27] What is the felt sense of that, of where they're at in their self, because you can feel people's stance very well. And you might not be aware of that, but you can. And so you'll see, as you, maybe when you start observing more, that regardless of personality, regardless of their way of speaking or moving or whatever, people's stance, at least in relationship, it's very clear. You can see it very clearly. And in my line of work especially, because when we train with people, we spend a lot of time watching our teachers interact with other people in the training. So you can actually watch the exchange really closely and see what's happening and like, how is the teacher managing the relationship and kind of start seeing and feeling where they stand inwardly. And also start seeing how that expresses outwardly and start getting... it's like a vibrational imprint, if you will.
[00:20:35] When you hang out with someone who's embodying a story that you don't have, but that you want to have, that you want to tell as well, that gives you a marker. Like if you can kind of feel the vibration imprint of that, what they're embodying, then you have a marker that you can navigate by. Like, "how close am I to this, to this feeling to this vibration? If I go a little more this way, oh, I'm going further from it. And like, it can feel like I'm moving away from that. Or if I go a little more this way, I'm going closer to it".
[00:21:12] All of my teachers, I think have that in common which is first their integrity, they have great boundaries, and they have great integrity in what they do and in who they are. And second they're all, heart-centered, they have a capacity to really be in their heart in a healthy way, not in a attachment kind of place, but really in a genuinely loving, while at the same time, not having any stakes in people's evolution and story. And so I can tell what that feels like because I've been on the receiving end of that, because I've been in interaction with them quite a lot. So I can tell what that feels like. So I can navigate my own behavior with people based on that, because otherwise I wouldn't have a reference, if I hadn't met all the wonderful people that I have met and I'm talking about my teachers, but actually I met a number of people in my trainings and in my life that have that, either because they've worked on it a lot or there's some people who are naturally in a loving place. So I can calibrate for myself and feel where I'm at. Cause if I didn't have those references, I wouldn't even know what I'm aiming towards. You need the reference, you need the marker to be like, okay, how does this feel like? How does the story feel like, do I like that? Do I want to go there? Oh yeah. I want to go there. Okay. If I go that direction, I'm getting closer to that story. I can feel that story in my body, it's getting more space, it's getting more traction. But then if I go this way, that story gets less traction in my body.
[00:22:52] And to come back to Mark he was a wonderful example of that and I remember him in a circle that I was in, where he was facilitating. It was in France. And so French people are notoriously not necessarily easy to work with. And so there was a number of people who were a little tricky. And at some point in the circle, he said: "You know what, I can feel there's something wrong. I can feel that my heart is closing. I can feel that I'm losing patience. I have to reset something". And I thought that was such a wonderful and rare display of awareness and humility and love, both for himself and for everybody who was there. And if I hadn't seen that, I couldn't imagine it. I couldn't imagine doing that necessarily. Or I remember the first time that I went to dinner with people from my training in family constellation and my friend, Karen Stocker, whom I didn't know at the time, who is an older lady from the Pacific Northwest. And somebody asked her a question and she said, "oh, wait a second. I need to feel into what I feel about that. I want to answer you well and so I need to feel into the answer." And right there at the table, we were at a really good African restaurant and right there at the dinner table, she closed her eyes and she was like, "mm. Oh, yeah." And then she answered the question and I remember watching her and being like, "wow, I want to be like that when I grow up, you know?" And I had never seen someone do that. Like that was not even an option. What? You mean you can actually take time to really feel into yourself, you know, to give yourself space, to actually know what you are feeling and thinking about this issue? Wow.
[00:24:55] There's so many examples that I could give, but all of those things, when you see them in other people, don't think, " oh, that person is special. That person is special and I'm going to benefit from this specialness by being on the receiving end". It's great to be on the receiving end, but I think it's more important to be like, "wow, this person is showing me the way, they're showing me a door. They're showing me something that I didn't think was possible and is possible. And they are human beings just like me and it doesn't matter, maybe it took them 20 years to get there.
[00:25:31] And I have 20 years, I mean in the best of cases, obviously. I'm 40 years old and hopefully if, if God grants me life I'm hoping to still be doing my job in 30 years. And so I'm certainly thinking about, okay, I have about 20, 30 years to get really good at this.
[00:25:51] I'm not thinking tomorrow. I'm not thinking, "oh, tomorrow I need to be like this, like this person, like this lady that, that I met". And so, start thinking in that way, start wondering, "okay what stories do I really want to tell that I don't know, that I don't know how to tell. Or what stories am I telling that I don't like. I know I'm telling them and they're really not appropriate anymore or they don't really bring me joy. They don't really make me happy. And then start looking around yourself and it doesn't have to be people with whom you're exceedingly close.
[00:26:28] You can see people like that all the time. You can find people who model things for you at the grocery store. It's really a question of looking at and being like, "oh, something is happening here. They're doing something. They're telling a story I don't know. Okay. What does it feel like in my body? How can I find that in my body? How can I be with it? How can I create that vibration in my body, in my life?" And of course you might have to go through therapy to get there, but at least, you know where you want to go. Cause the idea is, you know, very often in therapy we focus on issues, we say, oh, I have this problem. I have this problem. Or this happened to me and I want to heal from it.
[00:27:11] Or I want to get rid of that or I want to... But as Betsy was saying in the last episode, it's so interesting and also, I wouldn't say more efficient, but as important to focus on what you want to bring in, like what do I want more of in my life? What vibration? Okay. I have this story that I see in another person, and I really want to start embodying for myself.
[00:27:38] What does it feel like? How can I bring more of that feeling into my life? And that's as important as focusing on, oh, you know, I have all of those behaviors and those things and those feelings and those traumas and all of that, it's as important.
[00:27:53] So that's it for my solo rambling episode. You might have noticed, I don't write those episode in advance. Very often I just have a vague idea of what I'm going to talk about. It might change at some point, but for now I like it. And if it's worthwhile for you, if you find it interesting. And if you manage to parse through what I'm saying and get some gold for yourself, then that's great. That's enough for me. So I encourage you to look at the people in your life and start thinking about who is embodying what, and where you want to put your energy, where you want to put your focus and how you can start borrowing from these people and being inspired by them and letting them model things for you that you haven't learned in your family of origin.
[00:28:50] And start emulating people. If you know, you're copying people, it's okay to copy them. Like what's not okay is to copy people and pretend that you're not. You know, and not give credit and not all of that. But it's really interesting to start trying to slip into another person's skin a little bit. It's not to keep it. Like, you don't want to keep it. You don't want to become that other person obviously, but it can make you feel, oh okay. That's how it feels. That's how it feels like to do that. And I've done that many times in my life. I still do it. I still emulate my teachers not just in what they are, but also in their behavior and in the way that they speak sometimes. And I know that I'm doing that. I'm not pretending that I'm not. And I find it really helpful. And eventually the closer I get to the story that I want to tell and that I'm trying to like, borrow from them or experience for myself then the less I need to emulate or to copy them.
[00:29:55] But I think it's okay. You know, it's okay to look at people and really feel into the different way that they are navigating the world. The way that you're not doing it and they're doing it. It's okay to feel into that as long as you're aware of it. And as long as you are not, you know, trying to pass off as yours, things that are not. So yeah, that's the last thing I wanted to say. I might go further on that subject, that's a whole subject by itself, how we can slip in and out of other people's skins and stories and characters and stuff like that.
[00:30:33] But that's for another episode probably. So you will hear me again in two weeks for an interview with my friend Jara Skagfjord, who is an actress, talking about borrowing other people's skin, where we'll be talking about acting and about tarot reading and about Iceland.
[00:30:56] In the meantime, may you be well and define the stories that you want to embody now and in the future.