When You See Jesus, Your Bible Appetite Grows {Kristen Wetherell}

What would happen if you looked for Jesus on all the pages of your Bible? Would you read it differently? Would it satisfy your hunger more? On this episode of the Live Like It's True podcast, Kristen Wetherell and I are exploring the story of the two disciples on the Road To Emmaus, who didn't realize they're talking to Jesus—and what He opens their eyes to.

Kristen is a pastor's wife, mom, author and speaker from the Chicagoland area. Check out her new book, "Help for the Hungry Soul."

Bible Passage: On the Road to Emmaus - Luke 24:13–35

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Mentioned Resources

• Help for the Hungry Soul by Kristen Wetherell
• The One Year Book of Discovering Jesus in the Old Testament by Nancy Guthrie
• Reading the Bible Supernaturally by John Piper
• Purposefooled by Kelly Needham

Kristen is a pastor’s wife, a mother of three, a writer, and a speaker. She's authored several books including:

• Help for the Hungry Soul: Eight Encouragements to Grow Your Appetite for God’s Word
• Humble Moms: How the Work of Christ Sustains the Work of Motherhood
• Fight Your Fears: Trusting God’s Character and Promises When You Are Afraid
• For the Bible Tells Me So

Shaped by God's Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith 
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Comparison Girl for Teens
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Get our free "Pray God's Promises" prayer guide.

Go to Shannonpopkin.com/PROMISES/ for more information on my neww Bible study, Shaped by God’s Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith. 

Visit ResoundMedia.cc for the Live Leadership Podcast, along with other Gospel centered resources.

Transcript

Shannon: 1:37

Kristen, while they're all welcome back to live like it's true.

Kristen: 1:40

I love being back with you. Shannon, my friend, Thanks for having me.

Shannon: 1:44

It's just a delight to have you back. I remember our last conversation was just so helpful. We talked about fear and surrendering those fears to God and remembering. I just remember you saying YOLO is a lie. You only live. Once is a lie. We talked about how, like nope, you live twice and maybe we'll get into that again today. Tell me about this brand new book that you have just released.

Kristen: 2:09

Thank you. Yes, it's called Help for the Hungry Soul. The subtitle is Eight Encouragements to Grow your Appetite for God's Word, and so that's exactly what I hope it will do. You know, I'm so often struggle in my affections for God's Word. I just don't desire it. It feels overly familiar to me. I just forget what it is Right. I'm dealing with the very voice of God speaking to me, and I also have just heard from people in my church and small group people at other churches that I've visited, this heavy laden guilt that we have not desiring our Bibles or not reading our Bibles, the sense that there's a right way to do it, which just isn't true, which means there's a wrong way to do it, yeah, and so I just wanted to look at some of those discouraging things that we feel or don't feel, and encourage people. You know that it's possible to love God's Word again.

Shannon: 3:05

Yes, well, and I think it's helpful to know that you are a young mom of three. Your kids are ages six, three and seven months, and so when I remember back, that was one of the hardest times in my life because I had a kindergartner, a toddler and a baby and it just makes life chaotic and you're tired. And so to hear you you know your pastor's wife at the Orchard in Chicago and you are an accomplished author. You have written five books now to hear you say that you still struggle with opening God's Word, that's kind of refreshing. But we're looking for answers Like we need God's Word. We know that we need it, but what I think you said was really helpful just now is we forget what it is right, we forget what the Word actually is, and so, as we talk today about a Bible story, we're going to just ask God to give us a correct hunger for His Word. You were saying you watch a TV show and I wasn't familiar with the show, but something about where they have to go through hunger.

Kristen: 4:05

Yes, okay, the show is called Alone and it's a survivalist show. Okay, and it's real survivalists. People with these outdoorsy skills Okay, of which I have zero, which I have none either. Oh, my husband teases me. He's like you would not survive two hours. You'd be like get me out of here. I'm calling in, I'm done, I have a bug bite.

Kristen: 4:27

Yes, these survivalists are dropped into remote parts of the world, wherever they decide. The location is alone, by themselves, and they have to figure out how to survive, how to build shelter, how to feed themselves. And it's an interesting thing because as you watch them try to outlast the other people, the hungrier they get, it turns into not just hunger but starvation. And it's interesting because many of them actually stop hungering, like it turns off their natural, healthy appetite. And it is such a good illustration for when we're away from God's word for long enough and kind of filling up on the junk of the world, so to speak. Yeah, if you fill up on junk, you're going to crave junk, yes, and you lose your appetite, yeah, so I do think that there's a connection there for sure.

Shannon: 5:13

Yeah, what I notice is, whatever I eat, more of that's what I crave.

Shannon: 5:17

If I'm eating healthy, I crave healthy. If I'm eating junk, I crave junk. The more we eat good food, the more we crave it, and that's how it is with the Bible. That's right, okay, so this story that we're going to talk about. It's so interesting because these two men on the road to Emmaus, we're going to watch their hunger grow for understanding more. What I want us to pay attention to is the part of the story where they beg him to stay. He has been feeding them with the truth of the word, and they're going to beg him for more, because that's really the goal of your book is help for the hungry soul. We are hungry, and God has designed that we would be hungry for Him and to find Him in the Word, and so this story is found in Luke 24, 13 through 35.

Shannon: 6:03

We just have to set the context. This is the day that Jesus has risen from the dead. Earlier that morning he rose from the dead, and so there are two disciples this is like the larger group, not the 12 disciples, but two of these disciples who they were probably gathered with the rest of the disciples, and now they're heading back to a village called Emmaus, and the text says about seven miles from Jerusalem. Probably they're in Jerusalem for the Passover and now they're heading back home. And so here's what the verses say. It says they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing together, jesus himself drew near and went with them, but their eyes were kept from recognizing Him and he said to them what is this conversation you're holding with each other as you walk? And they stood still, looking sad. Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered and said Are you the only visitor in Jerusalem who does not know these things that have happened there in these days? Jesus said to them what things? And they said to Him.

Shannon: 7:08

And then they went on to tell about Jesus of Nazareth, this man who was a prophet and who did all of these mighty things. And then their chief priests condemned him to death and crucified him. And they're commiserating with Jesus like we had hoped. He was the one, he was the Messiah, he was the one who was going to come and redeem Israel. But now it's been three days since he died on this cross, and so that means, you know, after three days we know he's dead, dead. And then they go on to say but there's something else really amazing that happened. Some of our women, they went to his tomb and it's empty. And then some of our guys, they went and they looked for Jesus and they couldn't find Him. So then, kristin, could you read Jesus' response to these two men who have been walking and telling him all these things that they've observed, in verses 25 through 27? Yeah, so he?

Kristen: 7:56

responds oh, foolish ones and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into His glory? And then verse 27 says, in beginning with Moses and all the prophets, jesus interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Shannon: 8:18

That's an interesting verse. What do you, Kristin, find surprising or interesting about this scene? What's going on between these two men and Jesus?

Kristen: 8:26

It's so interesting that we automatically assume that it's two men. Have you ever thought about that? Because I assume the same thing even when I was working on this chapter in the book. It's two men, it's two men, and our pastor recently preached a sermon where this passage was involved and he talked about that it could have been a husband and a wife. Oh, because?

Shannon: 8:43

we only ever hear from Cleopas? Well, no, I didn't see that coming.

Kristen: 8:46

For a first little ditty, not super relevant to our conversation, but isn't that interesting? Yes, it is. I think I said two men. Well, it doesn't really distinguish. It doesn't tell us that it could be a husband and wife. Jesus really values women.

Shannon: 8:59

So it could be.

Kristen: 9:00

Who knows? The three women were just at the tomb Mary and Joanna. Well, I think the most surprising and astonishing thing that we tend to just glaze over because we've heard it a bazillion times is that a dead guy just walked out of his tomb and came to life and he's just popping in and making visits on his people Right. We tend to take that for granted.

Shannon: 9:20

Yes, that would be the most surprising thing. Yes, but like you said, it's been three days.

Kristen: 9:26

Jesus was dead, dead, and now he's standing before them, and don't you wonder how it happened. It says that Jesus himself drew near and went with them. Did he just kind of appear out of the bush, did he?

Shannon: 9:38

Yeah.

Kristen: 9:39

Was he also kind of walking on the road and he just kind of walked up beside them? But I find it interesting to kind of close my eyes and actually envision the scene and what that would have been like. But scripture tells us that their eyes were kept from recognizing him. Their eyes were kept. So it's not. It's also that they didn't recognize him, which could have been because he's in his resurrection body, and this is a glorious body, right. So it probably looks pretty different than pre-death, pre-resurrection body.

Shannon: 10:10

They didn't seem to be like shocked by his appearance Right.

Kristen: 10:13

But clearly Jesus looks different. So there's that factor. But the language is interesting. Their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And I looked at a couple other translations this morning and it actually those translations says God kept them from recognizing him. So we have to ask them what enables them to finally see and we'll get to that in the rest of the story. But this tells us something about our deep spiritual need, this hunger that God created us to have for him. Only God can open our eyes. This is not a pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Do all the right things to be a good Christian. Open your Bible and read it. Pursue Jesus on your own strength. That's not what the Christian life is. It's a total, 100% abiding in and dependence on the Lord, and I think we see that here. It's kind of shocking because we don't love that. We love for matters to be taken into our own hands, even spiritual matters, right? Yes?

Shannon: 11:13

Yeah, especially, I think, type A people. I assume you're kind of that way, kristen, and me too. I like to you know, give me the formula If I read first thing in the morning, or if I read a chapter a day, or if I read consistently, then this supernatural book will open up to me. No, this is a complete dependence, and sometimes it's interesting that he apparently keeps our eyes from actually seeing. Why didn't Jesus immediately reveal himself, do you think?

Kristen: 11:39

There was a process of, you know, as you read, jesus asking them questions, probing their hearts and their minds, and then we get to this type of crescendo where he's opening up the scriptures to them. And so there is this process of if you seek me, you will find me. If you seek me with all of your heart, we cannot know the Lord apart from his word. So I think sometimes we feel defeated in our engagement with the scripture because we feel like, is anything really happening? Like I'm not really like feeling much right now, it's not really changing me right now. Is it worth it? And so we tend to kind of give up or let our guard down a little bit. But I think that there's a really wonderful principle here and even a promise here we can't know the Lord, god, and see his glory for who he really is, apart from scripture.

Shannon: 12:30

Yeah, yeah that's true.

Kristen: 12:32

So it's a both and like we open the Bible and God works.

Shannon: 12:35

Yes, and I think it's interesting too that they have a misunderstanding of scripture, because look at it says we had hoped he was the one to redeem Israel. Well, he is the one to redeem Israel. I had a whole book filled with prophecies and they were the people, of all the people in the world. They were the ones to be expecting Jesus to be looking for him, to be watching for him. They had everything and yet they missed him. He died on that cross and they thought well, this, he's not the one.

Shannon: 13:06

I picture what would have happened if Jesus had revealed himself immediately to them, you know, joined them on the road. They would have been like oh my goodness, it's you, you are risen from the dead. But we would have missed out on this conversation that is so interesting because they didn't see him and he's Revealing himself in a way that they've missed. The verses you just read were beginning with Moses and the prophets Jesus Interpreted to them. He's gonna do some interpretation here in all of the scriptures, the things Concerning himself. Wouldn't you have loved to be in on that conversation, chris?

Kristen: 13:38

Yes, oh yes.

Shannon: 13:41

Yes. So here Jesus is trying to set right their misconceptions, reinterpret scripture for them. Do you think it's interesting that he started with Moses and the prophets?

Kristen: 13:51

Well, absolutely, because, from my understanding, the phrase Moses and the prophets, or the law and the prophets, is a way of saying the whole scripture exactly yeah, and they obviously didn't have the New Testament. They had, right, you know, the old yeah, so he's basically saying everything in scripture points to me Right, which causes us to ask what is my view of scripture? And is it just an ancient book full of stories that's irrelevant today? Is it just the laws? It just a restrictive book of rules from God?

Shannon: 14:23

What is?

Kristen: 14:23

scripture and he and Jesus is telling us it's about me, you're right, all of it points to me, which challenges our view.

Shannon: 14:31

Yeah, if you look at the timeline you would think Jesus doesn't show up until the New Testament. Right, you would think the Old Testament with that sort of like us understanding God, and a lot of people think it's just our guidebook for how to live. You know, like morality. But take another look and there are a lot of people who do not live.

Shannon: 14:49

With any sense of morality in the Bible. And they're. You know, the heroes in the Bible are not Moses and David. You know so many of them sinned right. They're just huge examples of sin. They're not like these righteous people. And so what is all of this scripture? What is all of this about? And Jesus says it's about him.

Shannon: 15:08

I love in Nancy Guthrie's book the Promised One. Have you read that book? I've not. It's seeing Jesus in Genesis. And so she brings up this very story and she's like Notice that Jesus went back. And you know if you're picturing he's explaining the Christ. Their misconception is that that Jesus couldn't possibly be the Messiah because he suffered. But she's going back to the beginning and saying no, this, all of these stories, these are all about Jesus. So, like the Israelites being delivered from Egypt, like that's a story of salvation, that's Jesus in salvation. Or Noah in the flood, like Jesus saying like this was me, I'm the one who saves you, who brings you through God's judgment. All of these stories, they're not be like Noah, oh, my God, build your ark. No, it's know that Jesus is the ark. Like the whole story, it's about him. It's not this morality, do you agree? Like that, that's probably what Jesus was unfolding for them.

Kristen: 16:02

Oh, absolutely. I'm doing a great study right now on the covenants, these promises that God makes to his people that are about loyalty and relationship, all the way through the Bible, starting in Genesis, with Adam and Eve, mm-hmm, and all the way along. We can't keep our sight of the deal. It's not possible for God's people to be 100% Faithful because of sin. Yet God, he always Supplies mercy and grace and forgiveness, whether it's through the sacrifice of an animal in the Old Testament, which points us to, yes, better sacrifice of Christ once and for all on the cross for sin in the New Testament.

Kristen: 16:39

The whole Bible is one story. Yeah, our senior pastor said the whole Bible is one story and all the way through it points to Jesus Christ. And so we can say to the listeners if you've never actually read the Bible looking for Jesus in that way, it will change your Bible reading. And there are a number of wonderful resources that will help you to do that. You've mentioned Nancy Guthrie. She has a number of them. There's a great ministry called open the Bible and that's their whole. Objective is to help you see Jesus in the Bible.

Shannon: 17:07

Yes, isn't it, pastor Colin Smith? Yes, is that your pastor? That's our senior pastor. Yes, okay, so I have his set of four unlocking the Bible books.

Kristen: 17:16

Yeah, so they recently changed it. It was a four volume Unlocking the Bible sets. You might still be able to get that. Those are a little more extensive. They recently turned it into one book called open the Bible. Okay, so good.

Shannon: 18:10

Yes, they're so helpful in helping us draw these connections of seeing the Bible as one solid book. But what I think is so interesting here is that Jesus is. Look what he says in verse 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ, the Messiah, should suffer these things and enter glory? See, they weren't looking for a Messiah who would suffer, so the cross completely threw them off. They're like well, this can't be the one right. And Jesus is like from the beginning. You just mentioned Kristen, the sacrificial system.

Shannon: 18:39

The best image of Jesus in the Old Testament was the lamb being slaughtered Over and over and over because these lambs couldn't take away sin. They, they were just like a temporary solution. But Jesus is the Lamb of God. But even if you look at the beginning, the very beginning of the first story which you just mentioned, with Adam and Eve sinning, not being able to keep their commitment to God, what's the first mention of Jesus in the Bible? It's Genesis 3, 16, where God promises that the seed of the woman Will crush the head of the serpent, but in that same promise, his heel will be bruised. So the Messiah, the one who's coming to crush the serpent, yeah, he will be bruised, like from the beginning. We've seen that the Messiah will suffer. He's going to endure pain, and crucifixion is like the worst suffering possible. That's what he endured, and so Jesus is like putting all the pieces together, and yet I just find it astonishing they still don't see him.

Kristen: 19:36

It's not natural for us to be drawn to suffering in that way, right? Yes, to be able to see through suffering into glory. Naturally, suffering is something that we recoil from Absolutely, and not that we shouldn't recoil from it. It's suffering and suffering. It's hard. But Jesus is correcting a false narrative here, right, because suffering, even death itself, is not the end.

Shannon: 20:01

Yes.

Kristen: 20:02

It's not the final resounding note.

Shannon: 20:05

Well, and look at how they recoiled even from the idea of suffering. Like we just said, it's been there in the Old Testament all along, but they just kind of selectively chose the promises about this Messiah who would deliver. They don't want a Messiah who suffers, right, they don't want that to be part of the story. And yet that's God's way. It's not His ways or not our ways, and he has just suffered, but yet, just like you said, that wasn't the end. He's alive, like. The most astonishing part of this story is a dead man walked out of his tomb and joined two guys on a road. I just have to say too, I love the fact that Jesus is willing to just spend seven days and miles of his time walking with perhaps a husband and wife, and he's willing to spend some time with you today too. Right, he can do that. He's not in just one place at one time. When we open our Bibles, we get to experience Jesus just spending some time with us, opening our understanding to our Bibles.

Kristen: 21:03

One of the false narratives we can tend to believe is that God is far away, that he's not interested, maybe that he's inaccessible to us. But the Bible on your bookshelf or on your nightstand is living proof that that is not true. Right that God Himself wants to talk with you and he has made that possible by giving you a book to read. Right, a supernatural miracle through a really natural process. Yeah, john Piper's book Reading the Bible Supernaturally is. It's a thicker read, but it's worth every word. It's so good and he really helped me to see that. And it's been a wonderful gift and gracious of God that centers, by nature who have rejected His words and not wanted to hear from Him and who have chosen our own way, that he would wait for us in His word, that he would continue speaking and giving Himself to us. It's such a precious gift that I think we forget and that we take for granted.

Shannon: 21:56

Yeah, and Kelly Needham's new book, purposefold. She talks about a friend of hers who gets in the car and then buckles the seat belts of the empty passenger seat next to him just to practice the presence of Jesus. I thought that was kind of interesting, like just remembering I'm not alone here. You know, I have a passenger with me and you know, I think, opening God's word and recognizing, you know, it's just like those two guys walking on the road, jesus is with me and he is the one I have to have. Open my understanding to this text. Okay, so let's look at the next section, where Jesus does reveal Himself. Could you read verses 28 through 35?

Kristen: 22:38

Yes. So they, the three of them, drew near to the village to which they were going and Jesus acted as if he were going farther. But they urged Him strongly, saying oh, stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent. So he went in to stay with them. When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them and their eyes were opened and they recognized Him and he vanished from their sight. They said to each other did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the scriptures? And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem and they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, saying the Lord has risen, indeed, and has appeared to Simon. Then they told what had happened on the road and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread.

Shannon: 23:24

If you look at the story elements here, the great tension of the story is they are talking to Jesus and they don't know they are talking to Jesus. They have just spent seven miles walking with Him and don't know that this is who they're walking with. Have you ever had a situation like that, kristen, where someone's talking to you and they don't know it's you? Or sometimes, when I am speaking somewhere, I like to interact with the people, just kind of mingle with them, and one time a woman said to me I heard the speaker is really good and I looked at her. I'm like is she teasing? Like you know how you'll say that to somebody like.

Shannon: 24:00

I hear the speaker is really good, but no, she really did not know she was talking to the speaker and I was like, well, I don't know how to respond what?

Kristen: 24:08

did you say?

Shannon: 24:09

So I just said, yeah, I hope so. But yeah, there are these instances in life where we're talking to someone like you should kind of know who it is, but you don't know who it is. But that's what's going on here. These guys, they're talking to someone they should. I mean, they're followers of Jesus, they know all about him, and I love what you wrote in Help for the Hungry Soul. I just want to read this little section.

Shannon: 24:33

You said we read and hear God's words in order to know the one who speaks them. But perhaps the more probing question is this how have you seen unbelief affect this pursuit? In other words, how have you been like the disciples on the road to Emmaus, surrounding by the realities about Jesus while remaining unaffected in heart by Jesus? That's a very interesting question. Here. We can sometimes forget that Jesus is a real risen and reigning person, not just a spiritual theory or historical figure. He is real. He walked on a physical road with two physical disciples. He was real. But what do you find just interesting or surprising here, kristen, about the way he revealed himself?

Kristen: 25:21

I've always wondered. They recognized him and their eyes were opened through the breaking of the bread. Yeah, I think that's interesting too. I assume that these two disciples weren't part of the 12. So they probably weren't at the Last Supper. I don't know if there's a connection there with the Last Supper and maybe, maybe God used that. But I do wonder if there's a connection between the bread and our spiritual hunger. In John's Gospel, jesus says I'm the bread of life, and so I wonder if the Lord decided to open their eyes at that moment, to kind of tie all the things together, for them to make those connections in their hearts. Because then they say did our hearts not burn with thinness while he was opening to us the scriptures? So notice, god didn't open their eyes, apart from that part of the conversation. They needed to hear Jesus speak to them about all the things concerning himself before their eyes were opened. We don't draw near to Jesus. We don't get to know him better apart from his word. We need his word in order to do that. I agree.

Shannon: 26:23

I think they probably couldn't have paid attention and listened so intently if they had known it was.

Shannon: 26:29

Jesus. So perhaps that's why he delayed revealing himself, because he really wanted them to objectively listen. But yeah, this breaking of the bread, that is a theme all through the Bible. You know, god gave them bread in the wilderness. Joseph, when there was no bread, people and famine had to come to him. He was the only one who had bread. That's a picture of Jesus. And then, like you just said, the Last Supper that Jesus spends with them, it's a Passover meal. They usually would eat unleavened bread. You know that was usually their Passover meal.

Shannon: 27:01

But Jesus does something new. He's instituting this new covenant where he's like I am the bread. He's revealing to them this thing that you have celebrated for centuries. You didn't realize, but I'm making it clear right now. You've been celebrating me and now I'm here and my body is the one that's going to be broken for you. And so Jesus said do this and remember this of me. He wants us to remember him as broken bread, and that's what he's doing in this very moment, with these two disciples on the road to me. He's breaking bread and revealing himself. I love that. God's word is bread for us. It's feeding us, but it's not feeding us apart from Jesus. It is Jesus right? He is this word, he is part of it and he's the one who reveals it to us. All of it is pointing to him. There is this connection between feeding ourselves in Jesus and the word.

Kristen: 28:22

Well, he calls himself the word right, and so, like three components of the same thing, right, it makes me think of Jesus's warning to the religious leaders in John when he says you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have life, but you refuse to come to me that you may have life. Yes, point being, the scriptures are about me. What we've said before, right, it's all about Jesus, but it does cause us to ask am I coming to the word in a way that wouldn't be about Jesus? Right, that would be about checking off a list of to-dos, or growing an intellectual knowledge, or attaining some kind of biblical proficiency, or just seeking answers to my life's problems. But is it about a person?

Shannon: 29:05

I think we can weaponize the Bible too and use it to correct everybody else and show them all the ways they're wrong, and never have it affect ourselves. I just was talking with a woman who her husband is seemingly very godly, and yet he uses the word to correct everyone, but he's not available for the word to reveal his own. And so I just wonder like, has he truly experienced Jesus in this word? Because when you experience Jesus in this word, you recognize your need. You don't recognize your strength. You recognize oh, I am. I am so unworthy here. I am the one who needs you, jesus. I can't take care of my sin. I am the one who needs a Savior to die on that cross. For me, that's right. When we come to the word I love that you brought that distinction apart from Christ it can have a negative effect. It can puff us up like these Pharisees. It can make us feel like we're superior in some way. The word truly is meant to help us see our need, not our sufficiency, that's right.

Kristen: 30:02

And I don't know if you ever feel this, shannon, but I'm in the Bible a lot because I'm writing about it and teaching on it. My husband's a pastor, so he's in the Bible a lot, and one of the things that we pray against often is what we like to call professional Christianity. And that's one of my greatest fears, which I think is a good kind of fear that someday the Lord would look at me and say I never knew you. You did all these things for me, but I never knew you. You never gave me your heart.

Shannon: 30:29

The most horrifying verses in the Bible that we would be so blind to ourselves. And I have the same struggle, kristen. So word to the Bible teacher, women here who are listening, or men, don't just read the Bible to feed others. We've got to really guard against that. So I've started having a different place where I read the Bible for my own feeding, versus as the shepherd getting ready to feed others. I sit in a different place and I use actually even a different Bible. I have a journaling Bible. So it's like when I'm reading my journaling Bible, that's just my attention is drawn to you or the needy one here coming for your own feeding, versus I have a place where I study the Bible and spread out my books and my notebooks and everything, but this burning, let's see, I want to read that verse again.

Shannon: 31:13

Did not our hearts burn within us when he talked to us on the road? That's when I know I'm interacting supernaturally with the Word of God. When my heart has this burning, like when I'm reading the text and it quickens in me like, oh, this is what that is talking about. There's a conviction, there's a new connection like I didn't see. Have you ever experienced that, kristen? That burning you know just like where the word is. It's not just a book, it is something supernatural. Well, absolutely.

Kristen: 31:45

And then I'm very aware, when I'm struggling to have that Right, right Like I'm in a season right now where I, frankly, I kind of feel like I'm in a bit of a rut, I'm just like Lord, I know that that's possible, nothing is impossible for you. So would you kind of like fan into flame that love again? The psalmist says revive my heart again. Would you do that for me? And so I actually love.

Kristen: 32:05

Turning to Psalm 119. It's all about the beauties of God's Word, but it's also about a real human being struggling to see the beauties of God's Word and it's pleading with God to I mean, I'll just read, like some of these phrases, because I highlighted all the instances of like heart or soul incline my heart to your testimonies, lord, and not to selfish gain. And then he says I entreat your favor with all my heart. Be gracious to me according to your promise, I will run in the way of your commandments when you enlarge my heart. I need you to do it, and that's what we see in this account too. Who opens their eyes, god does, yes. So I think it's an invitation for us to pray. You know, come to the Lord, come to His Word. So dependent on Him in prayer and just pleading with Him to do what only he can do through it Right.

Shannon: 32:53

And I think, reminding ourselves. So it's true, like Psalm 119 is, the Psalmist is reminding himself. The word is lovely, it is beautiful, it is good and right, and I should want it, even when I don't want it, like reminding ourselves, like it's good to rehearse those things. But if it was just a formula of bread recipe where you know you put in the yeast, you put in the flour, you put it all together, well then you have your bread and you get fed, like it wouldn't be this supernatural feeding right. It is a supernatural thing and we would maybe want the bread, apart from Jesus, maybe.

Kristen: 33:27

I don't know.

Shannon: 33:28

Like I think that we need him and so just the fact that we don't every time have that burning in our hearts if we did, it would become formulaic, I believe, and so I love those moments. They're very rare, beautiful, precious moments with the Lord when I have that burning, but the fact that it is supernatural continues to grow my dependence on him.

Kristen: 33:52

Does that resonate with you too, Absolutely? You know we get tastes of the glories to come Right, and it's a day when we will finally see with our own two eyes, just like the disciples did the face of Christ and faith will be made site. We get tastes of this and it keeps us coming back for more. Yeah, and the seasons when we feel dry. I think it's helpful to remember.

Shannon: 34:14

Yeah, and look at again what I said at the beginning. When Jesus opened to them, beginning with Moses and the prophets and interpreted the scriptures to them, he acted like he was going to go further. You know, it's almost like he's toying with them, like, well, I'm going to go.

Kristen: 34:27

Yeah.

Shannon: 34:28

And they're like no, please, stay with us. They urged him strongly. There couldn't be any more strong language there. They urged him strongly stay with us. You know it's almost evening. You know, you know you can't go on, and this is their hunger for more, you know.

Shannon: 34:43

So I think, the more that we see, the more we want to see, and one of the ways, kristin, that I cultivate my desire for the word is just turning over these stories in my mind, and I'm going to be drawn to stories, and stories gather up more than just facts. You know, it's more than just a list of facts about God. There's elements that you can't communicate in a list that a story contains, and so, for me, when I put my head on the pillow tonight, I'm going to be rehearsing this story, because this is the one I've been studying this week, and so I'll just remember that they were leaving. It's the day Jesus rose from the dead. They're leaving, they're on the road to Emmaus, and they're so sad and they stand still because this stranger is just asked them what have you been talking about? And he doesn't know, and they're just, they stand still, sad, and then they give him an update and then he tells them, you know, oh foolish ones, do you not realize the Messiah had to suffer?

Shannon: 35:40

And then he goes back and traces it through the Old Testament. And then he says, well, I'm going to go. And they, oh, no, no, no, no, stay. And as he's breaking the bread, their eyes are opened. I mean just rehearsing this story and reminding myself of the truth, about who Jesus is, what his word is and how I'm like one of these disciples. There is something supernatural about these stories that it does stir my heart. It does cultivate my longing and my correct hunger for him. That's right. So, kristen, how can we live like this story is true?

Kristen: 36:13

I think we've probably touched on a few implications. A couple others come to mind. One is zeroing in on the sadness of the disciples how many of us are walking through.

Kristen: 36:23

Suffering Doesn't have to be death per se. It could be the daily toil of life, it could be grief, it could be chronic pain, it could be whatever. But we do. We live in a fallen world that's been corrupted by sin. Sin within us, sin from without affecting us, and I feel sad sometimes, I feel discouraged.

Kristen: 36:40

But what difference does it make? To realize that Jesus walked out of his tomb, the death has been defeated, that suffering leads to glory, that he's at the right hand of God, right this moment, praying for me, pleading for me, sustaining my faith, keeping me, that the very same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in me. That changes things, that gives me hope. Like the hymn says strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow. Blessings all mine and 10,000 beside Jesus is my great blessing. So that makes a difference. We can live like that's true. We can call upon the Spirit of Christ. So that's number one.

Kristen: 37:22

The second thing is I think the story encourages us to remember that feeding on Christ through his word is for our own souls. But it's not just for our own souls, it's also for others, and you mentioned that earlier. But notice then that the story says that the disciples returned to Jerusalem. They found the 11,. They exclaimed the Lord is risen, indeed, yes. They told what had happened to them, how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread. So they received Christ, they received his word, and then they fed others with it.

Shannon: 37:52

Yes, and they got it, this thing that the Messiah had to suffer, because just in the next section, in one of the first sermons Peter preaches. He says we knew that the Messiah would come, but that he would have to suffer. It's in Acts 3.17. So they got it. They're putting together the pieces, and these two disciples were part of that. Maybe they weren't the ones to preach, but they influenced Peter. So Jesus gives us these glimpses and he lets our hearts burn, but not just for us. Right To say that. It's that we, collectively, as believers, we're meant to share these ways that the word opens up to us.

Shannon: 38:28

So, that's so good. I love that. What about false narratives, Kristen? Any false narratives that the story corrects?

Kristen: 38:34

Yeah, I think we've talked about a few of them. I think it challenges our view of the Bible. What do we actually think that the Bible is and what it's for? Yeah, like morality, or and how we approach it. I can do this on my own right. Yes, this is just something to check off my list. When in reality.

Kristen: 38:51

We are utterly dependent on God's sovereign choice and power to open our eyes at any given moment. It also affects the way that we live, right? How will we approach the Lord before we open his word ourselves, before we go to church on a sunny morning and receive the preaching of the word? Right, you know? Is it I got this or is it Lord? Help me? Oh, so true, I need you, like you said before. Yeah, I think it challenges our sense of self-sufficiency in the spiritual disciplines that God's calling us to enjoy him in scripture.

Kristen: 39:21

This is an invitation.

Shannon: 39:22

This is bread being broken. Don't lose that image of like just tasty, crusty bread right out of the oven being broken before them and served to them by Jesus. That's what the word of God is, and he's part of it. This has just been such an enriching conversation for me, kristen. I have enjoyed it so much.

Kristen: 39:39

Interacting with scripture with you is a joy. It's been so great. Thank you.

Shannon: 39:43

Just breaking spiritual bread together. It's been great. Thank you, Kristen, Thanks Shannon.