God's Ultimate Control When You Feel Vulnerable and Abandoned {Cheryl Lutz}

A crying baby. A crocodile infested river. An evil king. And a woman of faith.

The story of Moses in the basket (or ark) is full of tension, suspense, and an amazing outcome. Though God's name is not mentioned, His sovereignty is seen in every detail—including the one where Jochebed gets to raise her own baby and tell him the stories of the God who has promised to deliver his people.

Is God distant and unaware? Has he forgotten you? Are facing your frantic fears without Him? Or is God ultimately in control, when you feel vulnerable and abandoned? This story answers those questions and more.

Guest: Cheryl Lutz

Bible Passage: The Birth of Moses - Exodus 2

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Mentioned Resources

• Securely Held, Finding Significance & Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace by Cheryl Lutz

Cheryl Lutz is an inspirational speaker, certified lay counselor, pastor’s wife, and recovering people pleaser!

As the author of Securely Held, Finding Significance & Security in the Shelter of God’s Embrace—she helps Christian women break the power of other people's opinions and live confidently as God’s masterpiece.

Connect with Cheryl:

Website: CherylLutz.com

Facebook: Cheryl Lutz, Securely Held

Instagram: @SecurelyHeld_ministries

Youtube: Cheryl Lutz, Securely Held

Shaped by God's Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith 
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Get our free "Pray God's Promises" prayer guide.

Go to Shannonpopkin.com/PROMISES/ for more information on my neww Bible study, Shaped by God’s Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith. 

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Transcript

Shannon: 1:36

Cheryl, let's welcome to Live Like it's True. Thank you so much for having me, shannon. Yeah, it's such a blessing to be with you. I think we first met at the Speak Out conference. Is that correct? That is correct. That is correct, yes. Then we ran into each other at the Revive Our Hearts conference. We have some similar groups that we're part of, and you are an international speaker, a lay counselor, a pastor's wife and a recovering people, please, or I can relate, yes, and you have a new book coming out, securely Held, finding Significance and Security in the Shelter of God's Embrace. So we're excited about that. Is this your first book, cheryl?

Cheryl: 2:17

It is Belt the Call 11 years ago and it's finally happening. So God is faithful.

Shannon: 2:24

Praise God, and you've been married to Alan for 34 years for adult children, and you're part of the North Georgia area. Right, we are. I love Georgia. So, cheryl, is this story that we're going to be talking about? Is this part of your book?

Cheryl: 2:39

Yes, we deal with Moses in the book. He's in three different chapters, so we do have the who am I when God calls him to save the Israelites, and there is the chapter with Jacobed as his mother and releasing him and how that related to my life and the who am I? Understanding my identity by finding out who is God and then the Jacobed and releasing one of our sons.

Shannon: 3:04

So, cheryl, have any of your babies ever been threatened?

Cheryl: 3:08

Yes, our first birth went very smoothly. But our second child things started off smoothly and then things got a bit frantic in the labor and delivery room as they lost his heartbeat and I wasn't sure what was going on, because they were turning the monitors around and giving me oxygen and not really telling me what was happening. So I was definitely feeling some panic but thankfully the doctor came and he was born quickly. Then at that point water broke and things sped up and he was completely blue when he came out and the cord was around his neck and in a knot and the knot was actually more dangerous. So if the labor had been longer, that just continues to pull and they can't breathe. We were very grateful that there were no lasting consequences of that.

Shannon: 4:02

I'm so glad Babies are so helpless, exactly, and having their life threatened as moms, I can't think of anything worse. It's like usually when our adult children have things they're going through, they're playing a part in some role, but as children we're the ones who God has designed to protect and provide for and keep safe.

Shannon: 4:25

And so the story we're going to look at as a baby whose life is being threatened, and that baby is Moses. Let's just back up before we dive in. We're going to be talking about Exodus 2, the story of Moses being drawn out of the bulrushes, and let's just set up the backdrop here. So the story of the Bible really centers in on one family. It's the family of Abraham. And even if we go back to Adam and Eve, the great problem of the Bible is sin. When Adam and Eve sinned, sin entered the world, and that has created death and destruction. And so, right after that happened, god promised that the seed of the woman would crush this serpent who has tempted mankind into sin. So as we turn the pages of Genesis, we're looking OK, which child born to a woman is going to be the one who will rise up and crush death? Well then, we get a little further into Genesis 12. And we're told oh, it's going to be one of Abraham's children. Abraham is the selected man that God has chosen From his family. God says I will make of you a great nation, and your seed, one of your children, is the one that ties back to that promise in Genesis. So we're just reading through Genesis, waiting for this child to be born into Abraham's family.

Shannon: 5:44

The beginning of Exodus Joseph is sold into slavery, brought to Egypt, and there's a famine, yes. And then God uses Joseph. There were 70 of them and they came, and Joseph gave them the best part of the land, which was Goshen, and so that's where they've been living and multiplying like crazy. And then, at the beginning of Exodus, we have a new pharaoh in place. This one doesn't know Joseph, so there's no treaty between them, there's no understanding of peace. This new pharaoh is concerned about population. It's gotten out of control, so he's worried. I think it says in the beginning of chapter 1. In verse 9, it says that this pharaoh is saying to his people look, the Israelite people are more numerous and more powerful than we are. Come, let's deal shrewdly with them, otherwise they will multiply further and when war breaks out they will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country. He first turns them into slaves, and that doesn't work. So then he comes up with this plan, something to do with the boy babies. What's going on here?

Cheryl: 6:51

Cheryl. They were to be thrown into the Nile and at birth he did not want the male children to continue to populate and grow.

Shannon: 7:00

Yeah, if you get rid of all the boys, eventually you thin the population Even for a short period of time. If there are no boys, that really has an impact ultimately on population. I just found an article that says that in the US we have a record low fertility rate of 1.64 children per women in the US In 2020,. The pandemic seems to have accelerated this decline, but it's a trend. Experts start getting nervous when you drop below 2.1. Because in order to repopulate ourselves, we have to hit a birthrate of 2.1. And we're below that. And so there comes a point where you can't reverse it.

Shannon: 7:40

I mean, pharaoh obviously knows that he's trying to take care of this problem of the slave group. He's bigger than the ones who are trying to manage the slaves. He's feeling uncomfortable. But God is the one who makes babies right. God is the one who oversees population. Moses is born into this situation. I mean, can you imagine there are slaves, this evil king is out to kill their babies? I can't imagine, as a mom giving birth, how much fear and trembling that would create in my life. So that's what Moses is being born into. So, cheryl, could you read Exodus 2.1-4?.

Cheryl: 8:19

Now a man from the house of Levi went and took as his wife a Levite woman. The woman conceived and bore a son, and when she saw that he was a fine child, she hid him three months. When she could hide him no longer, she took for him a basket made of bulrushes and dogged it with bitumen and pitch, and she put the child in it and placed it among the reeds by the riverbank. And his sister stood by at a distance to know what would be done to him.

Shannon: 8:44

So this is a great story. I mean, I live like it's true. We like to look at the narratives of the Bible and this one is a good one. You know who's the bad guy in the story Cheryl.

Cheryl: 8:54

We've already said Beiro and what's the tension here, this mother's heart of the command. Is she gonna obey the law of the land or preserve this child, because this child has a calling on its life. What's she going to do? Just one brave mother, yes, she's so brave.

Shannon: 9:11

I love that she hid him. We're celebrating here that she didn't obey. But in a sense she kind of did, because Beiro said to throw the babies into the Nile River and to some extent she has. She did and if you look at it literally she has thrown him in. But I mean, I just can't imagine those first three months trying to keep a baby quiet for three months. You know, I imagine they have guards walking down the streets and oh my goodness, oh yeah. Have you ever tried to keep a baby?

Cheryl: 9:40

quiet. Well, my husband was a pastor for 30 years and having the baby in church, you know, I didn't want the baby louder than my husband who's trying to preach, and so yeah.

Shannon: 9:50

I never tried. I just always was like I'll just go out, right, my babies were all noisy, they were just not staying quiet, and I can't imagine trying to keep him hidden. And then I wonder was she expected to work? How did she do that? And did people cover for each other? It must have been terrorizing that any moment your baby could cry and he could just be taken from you and thrown in the river. Awful and what you know, in the river there are crocodiles. Terrible, terrible scene. So then she can't hide him any longer. So then what does she come up with?

Cheryl: 10:21

She's going to put him in this basket and put him in the water. Release him into God's care. You know, when it said she saw that he was a fine child so she hid him. And I know she and I know you have boys also. I have two sons. So what mother doesn't think that her son is a fine child?

Shannon: 10:39

I had that same thought. Like this is all women right here. You know, this is every mother who thinks her baby is a fine child. Of course, no, baby is not a fine child, his mom.

Cheryl: 10:50

Exactly. But there was something special about this child. You know, in God's sovereignty he was chosen and set apart in Jacobin Somehow knew that Putting together this basket out of the bull rushes which would have been like pliable plants from the Nile and making this basket, and they said the word for the basket is the same word used for the ark, Noah's Ark, and so it was like this little ark that he was put in and preserved.

Shannon: 11:21

Yeah, that's so cool, isn't it? And this word used a bunch of times in Genesis, you know, when we had the story of Noah and the ark. It's the only other time this word is used. So what are the parallels here between this story and Noah's Ark? We see.

Cheryl: 11:34

God preserving Noah and his family through the floods and in the water, through this ark that he built and his sovereign hand closing the door itself, and then his preserving Moses in this little ark, in the water and being drawn out to safety.

Shannon: 11:55

Yeah, I love that there's this image of someone going into the ark. There's water on the outside and God is sovereignly protecting and caring for.

Shannon: 12:05

But, then I also love the fact that she put her daughter to keep watch over baby brother. Jacobin's family is exactly like my family. It goes girl boy boy. Our girl Lindsay, she was like mom number two, oh right. We were just having a conversation with her brother the other day and she said she stopped bossing them when she got so sick of them calling her mom. Oh, there you go. How does your family go, cheryl? Yes, I have girl boy, girl boy. Ok, so you have an oldest girl too.

Cheryl: 12:35

They're really good at mommying aren't they, they are, they are. And it's kind of comical as they get older and then your older kids are such excellent parents of the younger ones. She was like, oh really.

Shannon: 12:48

And we don't know how old Miriam is. That's Moses' older sister, but she's the one standing watch. I mean, that's a lot for a little girl too. Yes, it says at a distance. So maybe she hid just to keep an eye on the baskets, I mean. And for some reason, jacobin, it was maybe too risky for her to be there. We don't know, we're not told, but for some reason she had to be even further away. And her daughter is at a distance. Nobody is within close proximity to this baby. That is terrifying. There's an evil king out to get him. There's crocodiles. She has to put him in a basket, load him in the river. She's made it waterproof, she's done everything she can. What parallel do you see there between what all moms have to do, moms who trust that God is in control but yet have to do our part? What balance do you see there, cheryl?

Cheryl: 13:43

Yeah, I mean we have to. Whether they're an infant or an adult, they're still our child, as you know. But we've got to release what are we responsible for and what is God responsible for, and absolutely train them, teach them the word of God, pray over them. Salvation is of the Lord. We can't change their hearts. We can put it before them in all those different things, whether it's spiritual safety or physical safety. We have to release that.

Shannon: 14:11

Yeah, I love that you segmented those out spiritual and physical safety and I think we have to deal with both of those as moms. Physical safety you already shared a story where your baby was blue. You had done everything you could. Pregnancy is one of those things that we really I mean we eat, we sleep and God does the rest, he grows this baby inside of us.

Shannon: 14:35

We can do our best with good nutrition and sleep and that's about all we can do, and then it's like putting that baby in the basket. So I have a son who's allergic to bees. We didn't know that he came in. One day I was laying down on the couch taking a little nap and he's like mom, I think I stepped on some bees and I'm like okay, are you okay? And he's like I don't know, I feel a little itchy. I look up and his face is swelling.

Shannon: 14:57

Oh goodness, and there were a whole bunch of bees that he'd been stung by. And so I'm like, oh no, oh no. I'm like going through the cupboard trying to find Benadryl. I didn't have any, so I'm like let's go to Rite Aid. I'm running in Rite Aid, I need Benadryl, and his body is swelling, like his eyes are swelling his mouth, and so they're like you need to bring him to an ER immediately. So get behind the wheel. And I am panicking at this point.

Shannon: 16:05

Cheryl and I went the wrong way In my panic. I went the wrong way to the med center and I'm just like terrified. You know, as his body is swelling, he's starting to panic too. So we walk into the run into this med center. I'm like he needs a doctor, and they're like standing right back. I think within one minute they had a shot of epinephrine and it's like immediately things started to calm. So, like I look at that story, I did my part. It would have been foolish for me to say, well, let's just pray that God will reverse the effects of these beastings, like that's not what we're saying when we say, you know, put God in control. We do what we can as mothers. You know, it was right for me to get behind that wheel and sometimes we make mistakes. I went the wrong way. You know we are frail but we do what we can. We try to keep our children safe, but ultimately we put those children in God's hands.

Cheryl: 16:57

Absolutely.

Shannon: 16:58

And that's what Jacobin's doing. I mean, she's done what she can here. She's created this little arc for safety. She's placed her older child to watch over, and perhaps she even has a plan. You know, she might know that this is where Pharaoh's daughter goes to bathe. You know she might. Maybe that's common knowledge and maybe only women are allowed in that area. You know, I could see that being the case. We don't know, this might be her ingenuity, but ultimately she has surrendered this child to God, hasn't she?

Cheryl: 17:30

Yes, absolutely Like you said, she can't control crocodiles or who finds him.

Shannon: 17:35

Yeah, but then also spiritually, again that you segmented those out. We have to put our children in God's hands spiritually. I was looking through this text one more time. God's name isn't mentioned here in this text, and nor is the enemy mentioned here, but there's this spiritual battle going on.

Shannon: 17:53

If we back up and look at this overarching story of God's people, there are a lot of people trying to kill them. Can you even think of all the times when somebody's out to get the people of Israel? There's so many. Yes, yes, there's famine at first, like right after God calls Abraham and Sarah, they're faced with famine. They're going to die. They have to go to Egypt. This is the first time they're targeted by someone like Pharaoh's targeting this specific race of people. And, by the way, throughout the Bible they're called the Hebrew people, they're called the nation of Israel and they're called the Jewish people. It's kind of confusing and I won't go into why they're called what, when, but it's all the same family group, it's the same nationality and they're targeted. Do you remember the story of Esther when Haman wants to wipe out all of the Jews? The Jews he wants to annihilate?

Cheryl: 18:44

them.

Shannon: 18:44

Yeah, and then remember when Jesus was a baby. What happened then?

Cheryl: 18:47

Herod when he found out that there's this king born somewhere, and so he tells the wise men to report back. And where is this child? And when they don't, he says all children two years and younger to be murdered. Very similar, I think it's all the boys again.

Shannon: 19:05

Yes, the boys, two years and younger, yeah, yeah. So there's a parallel story. Look who they're after at that point. They're after Jesus. Yes, and that story, herod wants to kill Jesus, this new king, our king. But I look back at this story and I think the same thing is happening, absolutely. I mean, as we're turning the pages, asking okay, who's the seed of the woman? Who's going to crush the serpent? Well then, the serpent is rising up and working through evil people, trying to wipe out this nation. That is the main conflict of the Old Testament. Well, I would say that and bringing them into the Promised Land. But it's like is this line of people, are they going to survive, and is this Promised One going to be born? And so if you wipe out the Hebrew people at this point, you don't get this line leading to Jesus. And so God is going to be the one to protect, and he's going to start with this little Moses. He's going to be drawn out of this little basket.

Shannon: 20:01

Before we go to the next part of the story, I just want to look at verse six. So this is Pharaoh's daughter. She's coming to bathe by the river with her young women. She sees the basket among the reeds. She sends one of her servants to open it. And then she opens it and it's like, behold, that's such a storytelling word. It says, behold, the baby was crying. The CSB version says and there he was, a little boy. It's like there's this tension, what's going to happen to this baby? And then here's a woman who can do something about the problem, just happens to be walking by. What do you see in that part?

Cheryl: 20:41

of the story so we can say, okay, so she was a woman, so she had pity on this child. Or, like you said, or is this God's sovereignty, and God's sovereignty is working through the pity of this woman. And when the commentators was saying, if this were just the pity, if this were just this coincidence, that she wants to keep him, if we take out the miracle side, then it's just a fun fable and story to tell our children like. Make believe If we don't see the sovereign hand of God in this over Pharaoh's daughter, over Jacobin, over Mary, all of this preserving them in the little Ark.

Shannon: 21:24

This is perhaps some ingenuity, like we've said, but no, this has got sovereign hand protecting this baby. This has got people behind enemy lines that he can use for his purposes. God does. This woman is on the enemy lines. She's the daughter of this evil king who's trying to wipe out this baby. God is not bound by evil kings, and I see some irony here too. Here's the mighty Pharaoh. I mean, this is the most powerful nation in the world. Other nations are terrorized by Pharaoh, and here are some women a mother, a daughter from his own household and a young girl, miriam, and a baby. And this is God's plan. Moses is the one who's going to rise up and bring down the mighty Egypt. This is not a plan that anybody could have hatched right.

Shannon: 22:16

This whole nation is in a situation where there's slavery. There's nothing they can do to break free from the rule of this evil king. But God has a plan and it starts with a mom having a baby and a little girl keeping watch and a princess from behind enemy lines. I mean, there's some irony for you.

Cheryl: 22:36

Absolutely. And Moses, this child becoming the adopted grandson of the man who wants him dead, who was killing his people. It's just amazing.

Shannon: 22:47

It is. Yeah. What we see about God here is like his purposes will not be thwarted. His purposes will stand. His sovereign hand is devising our salvation, like he's saving this little boy through this princess, but he's saving us through the line of Abraham's people, the people of Israel. All right, so let's go ahead and read that next part of the story, seven through 10.

Cheryl: 23:39

He named him Moses because she said I drew him out of the water.

Shannon: 23:43

So she's going to adopt him, this princess is going to adopt him, but like okay, so let's start with Miriam. I mean, this scene amazes me. I mean well played little Miriam.

Cheryl: 24:21

Well played.

Shannon: 24:23

Verse four says and his sister stood at a distance to know what would be done to him. So she's keeping watch. Can you imagine how her heart must have started pounding when she sees okay, here's Pharaoh's daughter. And oh, they're picking him up. That's her baby brother. And then I don't know if this was part of the plan or if she came up with this, but some ingenuity on her part too, right, cheryl?

Cheryl: 24:47

You're in just her composure to be able to do it. Yes, myself as a child, I feel like I just would have been shaking, and even if they told me what to say, just suddenly my mind going blank.

Shannon: 24:58

Yes, yeah, I remember you saying when you were a little girl I read this in your book that you were just terrorized of being called on in class and not being able to find your words. Yes, I mean, this was some composure here from little Miriam, however old she was I'm picturing like 10 or 12. I don't know where I'm getting that from, but that's what I'm picturing. She doesn't give it away that she's the sister. She doesn't give it away that she's going to go call the mother of this baby. She looks at it from Pharaoh's daughter's perspective. This is royalty. She has all the power here. But she comes along like how can I be of help to you? How can I present an idea that's going to be useful?

Cheryl: 25:37

to you.

Shannon: 25:38

Shall I go and call a nurse from the Hebrew women to nurse this child, instead of saying that's my baby brother and I'll go get my mom like that, right? Yes, so I don't know if there's some foresight here on Jacobud coaching her. I mean, we know that Miriam is going to be one of the leaders of God's people. You know, it says in Exodus that Moses, Aaron and Miriam led the people out of Egypt. You know, I think those strengths, those leadership skills, were seeing those in her as a little girl.

Shannon: 26:09

And how does Pharaoh's daughter then respond? She says yes.

Cheryl: 26:13

I will pay this Israelite woman to nurse him until he's ready, and then I will take him.

Shannon: 26:19

Yeah, Isn't that so cool? Yeah, she's paid for the privilege of nursing her baby her own baby.

Cheryl: 26:27

We just see the mercy of God there, just giving her that. Yeah, it's so beautiful, I mean.

Shannon: 26:33

I think. So many times we're in these helpless, these hopeless situations and we're just like I don't know what to do. I'm stuck, and there are solutions that we can't even imagine. This whole tension of trying to control everything versus surrendering to God. You know, in my book Control Girl, I was consistently calling us back to like there's two categories in life what I can control and what I cannot control. Here's what I can control In this story.

Shannon: 27:00

What Jacob I could control is keeping her baby quiet till three months. Then she can't control it anymore. Creating a basket and then putting him in it, putting her daughter posted nearby to keep watch. That's what she can control. The outcomes are out of her control, and yet God shows himself to be sovereign, and again he's so creative. This idea of watching from a distance you know Miriam was watching from a distance I see that in Hagar's story too, when she puts her child under the bush and she's a bow shot away and there's nothing she can do. Her child is dying. She's done everything she can. It's gone. Water's gone, yes, but in that story what I love is that you know Hagar's wailing, but God hears the voice of Ishmael, who's got to be not very loud. He's dying of thirst Right. God hears his voice and he's close enough to hear. So, like for the mom who feels like they're at a distance and they can't help. What encouragement do you give them, cheryl, about God's sovereignty, really?

Cheryl: 28:00

living like it's true, as you say, that he is at work behind the scenes. So much of the time we can't see it, because we're called to walk by faith and not by sight. We've got to step back and believe that he is who he says he is and that he will accomplish what he says he will accomplish.

Shannon: 28:20

And he's nearer than we think. Yes, like we said, god's name is not mentioned in this story and yet I believe his hand is directing all of these details. Sometimes do you look back at the stories in your life and you're like, oh my goodness, god really was managing all of these details.

Cheryl: 28:37

Yes, so much of the time I think about the messy middle where, later in life, when Moses murders someone and goes off for 40 years, that's the messy middle. Okay, god did this amazing thing and he preserved his life. He must be the promised deliverer of the people. And then he's gone. And that messy middle we can continue to trust. Right God's at work behind the scenes when we can't see it.

Shannon: 29:02

Yeah, so often we are in a situation where we just can't see how God could ever turn it out. I mean, I have half a dozen people in my life right now where they're just saying it's hopeless, and oftentimes with our children there's a distance. I've done everything I can, I taught them, I've given them God's word, but there's so much I cannot do. And yet God is nearer than we realize and he sees and he does care. I can imagine 400 years, I think, have gone by while these people have been in slavery. I don't know exactly where the timeline is, but I can imagine them feeling like God has forgotten them.

Cheryl: 29:40

Oh, yeah, you feel that way. We feel that way. After a day, our sin nature pops up and years, like you said, over a grander years. Okay, god made this promise.

Shannon: 29:52

Where is it? And Jacobad is still operating. I believe out of faith here, like even after hundreds of years. Just think about how many grandmothers back have been slaves in Egypt at this point in Jacobad's story. And yet she's still remembering God and she sees a purpose in her child. She's floating him down the river and putting him in God's hands. Have you ever had to do that with one of your kids? Put them in God's hands.

Cheryl: 30:18

Yes, we have one of our adult kids who struggled with addiction, and there's nothing that makes you feel more powerless when you love someone who is caught in addiction. What I realized through the story, and what Jacobad must have realized, god was at work in Jacobad's life. So I kept thinking of what God was doing, or what's gonna do, in this adult child. He was doing a work in my heart through it. He was doing a work in my husband's heart through it. He was doing it in our hearts together. It wasn't just about the one with the addiction, but being able to come to the point of releasing and trusting God and letting go of that. I didn't think that I could have joy. I didn't think that I could be happy when one of my kids was not right with God or with even functioning well in society, but learning that, yes, we can have joy and much sorrow at the same time.

Shannon: 31:13

Our joy isn't contingent on our plans turning out the way we hoped. And with addiction we feel so powerless. It feels so powerful. It's like the pharaoh in our lives where we're like it's got all the power and any moment now this pharaoh addiction thing is gonna impose on my child. You know, I see this helpless child at the mercy. And yet there's another person in the story. It's God. My children do have an evil ruler who would like to destroy them, each of our children. This world is a dangerous place. Sometimes we protect them physically, other times all we can do is call for God's spiritual protection through prayer. I think prayer is one of our greatest works. Like that's putting my child in that little arc, day by day, putting them in the arc, putting them in the arc, putting them in the arc and letting them go. Prayer is my gritty uphill work of surrender to God. That's prayer and surrendering them to God, but recognizing he is able.

Shannon: 32:10

He's the one directing this scene in his story with a princess who has compassion. She's like, oh, this must be one of the Hebrew children. She picks him up and then, well-played, miriam, you know, want me to get one of the women Jacob had gets to nurse him and then look at in verse nine. So the woman took the child and nursed him. When the child grew older, she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter and he became her son. She has this baby for an extended period of time, which tells me, you know. Eventually we see in his story that he identifies with God's people. That's what Hebrews calls out as his faith is that he identified with God's people who were in slavery rather than enjoying the pleasures of Pharaoh's households. So something happened in their home while Moses was a little boy. He was giving God's story, he was giving God's purposes, he was giving God's promises.

Cheryl: 33:04

Yes.

Shannon: 33:05

As a little one and that meant something to him that those sank deep in his heart. Do you believe little children can get a grasp on God's story? Cheryl, Absolutely.

Cheryl: 33:15

Their hearts are so open and that's why Jesus said let the little children come to me. That's why they called it childlike faith. And when you see the beauty of that and I saw that in our adult son as a child and then when they stray, you have to keep going back to what you saw in the seeds that were planted. Okay, god, if you began a good work, then you will bring it to completion.

Shannon: 33:38

Yeah, I agree with you. I think, in particular, stories are powerful. So much of God's revealing himself to his people were through the stories of what had happened to them the story of Noah and the flood. The story of Abraham and Sarah living in this land as strangers and, after 25 years, god giving them a baby. The story of Joseph these are the stories that Jacob had told her little boy, moses, telling him you are one of God's people and God has a big purpose for you. One day, honey, you're going to pack up and we're going to move you to that palace and you're going to live with Pharaoh, and he doesn't believe in God. But I want you to remember you do belong to God and we are God's people. And to some extent, all of us send our kids out into the big world. Yes, at some point we all have to do it.

Shannon: 34:30

Yes, hostile to our God, stories are powerful. So if you're a mom and you have a little one, you still have time to teach them these stories. I mean, I think you should teach them this very story, the story of Moses and how God protected him. Teach your little boy, your little girl, as you're driving in the car, as you're taking a walk as you're feeding them breakfast. Teach them these stories, especially when they're scared. I think this is a great story to turn to when your little one is scared like scared of crocodiles, a scared of evil kings, scared of what's happening out in the world. Like what if we told them the story of?

Cheryl: 35:05

Moses, absolutely. What a gift that God's word isn't just all these commandments, which is part of it, but, like you said, that he gave us stories, and stories that a child can understand when we take the time to teach them.

Shannon: 35:19

Yeah, as I've said multiple times on this podcast, a story is, I think of it, like a little velvet pouch filled with theological gems, truths about God. It's filled with theology, but the story is what packages it up. It's like it's the little velvet pouch. It's easier to store these truths when we package them in stories. We can retrieve them, we can give them to others. Our kids can hide them away in their hearts. They can remember these stories, and so I think in this particular story we're seeing God's faithfulness, god's protection. God is near. What are some of the false narratives that this story corrects? What are the things that we tend to believe that aren't true about God or ourselves?

Cheryl: 36:00

So much of the world's belief. Fate, yeah, fate, luck, as we said. The universe lining up, yeah, the church. I'm seeing a lot of talk about manifesting, speaking it, believing it, and we're going to manifest it. Well, I'm sorry, we are not that powerful. We are not the king of king and lord of lords. We are not the great I am, but we know the one who is. That's who we look to and release these things to the false narrative that we are in charge of things that we're not.

Shannon: 36:30

Yeah, I keep hearing that word manifest. It's like a popular word right now. Yeah, I'm not sure exactly the root of that, but I agree with you. We are not that powerful. Jacobed would not have told you I am manifesting my baby's future. No, she was probably terrified, which we are too. We're not the source of the power. God is the source.

Cheryl: 36:51

Absolutely. We have the faith of a mustard seed. He takes that.

Shannon: 36:55

Yes, there is an interaction between our act of faith and God's provision. Hebrews 11 lists out all of these. By faith, by faith, by faith. There are things that people actively did because of what they believed, and God wrote the rest of the story in each instance. This is one of them in Hebrews 11. There's two opposing false narratives. One is that it's hopeless, Nobody's in control. The other one is well, I have to take control. And neither of them really quite get it right, Do they no?

Cheryl: 37:23

it's extremes, it's like the evil one. He always wants us to fall for an extreme. Yes, he does, because it doesn't matter which side you fall off on. If you fall off right, you're not in the biblical balance of truth. It's going to create havoc in your life.

Shannon: 37:38

Yeah, either throw up your hands in despair I can't do anything about this or grip, white knuckle your way through life. I have to control every detail. In this instance, throwing up her hands in despair, Jacobed would have never tried anything with the little basket. I'm calling it an arc. If she was white-knuckling it, she would have never put him in the bull rushes. We don't see either of those extremes. We see her walking the line of what can I do? What do I have control over? I can make a little basket, I can cover it with pitch and tar, I can place my baby in the basket and I can set my daughter to watch over. Now, God, I am trusting you with the outcomes.

Cheryl: 38:19

Absolutely.

Shannon: 38:20

One other false narrative I see in this story is God is distant and unaware. He's forgotten me. We talked about how hundreds of years have gone by and no doubt God's people wondered like is God going to keep his promises to us? We are slaves. God promised that he would bless those who bless us and curse those who curse us, and that is not happening right here. He's not blessing us and he is not cursing Pharaoh, but he's about to. This is just the beginning of the story. So I think, holding on and remembering that, even if it looks like God is distant and unaware, it looks like he's forgotten us, he hasn't. At the end of this very chapter that we're talking about, exodus 2.24 says that God remembered his people. That word remembered in Hebrew doesn't mean just he calls to mind. It means he's about to do something about it, absolutely, and he is about to do something.

Cheryl: 39:05

And, like you said, with Ishmael, he heard his cries and God heard the cries of his people. Yes, another false narrative is deism, that God created the world and then just we're off to do whatever we want and it's up to us. As we talked about, and whatever you want to call it, it's not believing that there is a sovereign God controlling the universe.

Shannon: 39:28

Yeah, that he's close enough to keep watch over a little basket in some bulrushes. Yes, right, he's close enough to hear a baby's cry, and yet big enough to manage the whole world at once. He is so amazing and this story shows us that. So, cheryl, how can we live like this story is true, like we've talked?

Cheryl: 39:47

about be Jacobin. Believe that God is at work behind the scenes and be obedient, as you talked about teaching our children, believing that when we plant those seeds, it's up to God to bring the growth, and to keep doing it. When maybe we're not seeing the fruit, yeah, continue to pray. We can be behind the scenes, praying and just trusting. There's a popular saying that a mother is only as happy as her saddest child. I don't know. I think that's a false narrative. Yeah, joy and sorrow can coexist. We've got to believe that and live that. That. Lord, whatever is happening with my child, I have you and I can continue in that relationship with you and I can have the joy of the Lord at the same time that my heart might be breaking. Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Shannon: 40:35

I agree. I think living like it's true for me is telling others these stories. This podcast is me living like it's true, like this story matters, and I'm encouraging our listeners go tell somebody this story. That's what Jacobin did. God made a way for her baby to grow up in her home under the protection of the evil king. There's so much irony, but she was faithful. She told Moses these stories. I think living like it's true is holding onto these stories, remembering that they're true and doing what I can do, separating out what I can and cannot control, and trusting God with the rest, absolutely yes. Thank you so much, cheryl. This has been a fabulous conversation. Thank you for having me.