Real World Cases: Be Proactive

In this episode, four seasoned deacons look at four different cases; three having to do with saints within the congregation and one really unique one regarding a visitor to  Vacation Bible School. 

Deacon and CDM member, Tim Hopper facilitates this discussion with Bob Keys, a deacon from Grace OPC in Columbus, Ohio, Lynne Hunter, a deacon at Harvest OPC in Wyoming, Michigan and Daniel Lascaze, a deacon from Amoskeag OPC in Manchester, New Hampshire.  

The consensus? Know your congregation, be proactive, and let the Gospel of Jesus Christ show in all you do.

Share this episode with your fellow deacons or present these scenarios at your next deacon's meeting for discussion!

You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org.  Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Bob Keys 0:00

Sometimes it more is caught than taught. And we can teach all day, but when the children see the love and the ministry of the church and the deacons and uh and the people of the church, what a blessing to them to see and hear the gospel of Christ in word and deed. Connecting that word with the deed of Christ and the love of Christ is so important.

David Nakhla 0:22

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone. So let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode.

Tim Hopper 0:44

Hi, my name is Tim Hopper, and I serve as a deacon at Shiloh OPC in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I'm a member of the OPC Committee on Diacal Ministries. For this episode of the Reformed Deacon, I'm going to facilitate a discussion group we call Real World Cases. I'll describe the case to our panel of deacons and we'll discuss possible responses to each case. These are fictitious situations, but I think you'll find them very realistic and feasible. I hope after listening you'll come away with some suggestions for responding and following up when this or a situation like it should present itself at your church. With me today are three fellow deacons: Bob Keys, a deacon from Grace OPC in Columbus, Ohio.

Bob Keys 1:22

Good morning. It's uh wonderful to be here.

Tim Hopper 1:24

Lynne Hunter, deacon from Harvest OPC in Wyoming, Michigan.

Lynne Hunter 1:28

Good morning, Tim. It's great to be here.

Tim Hopper 1:30

And Daniel Lasca, a deacon at Amuskeg OPC in Manchester, New Hampshire. Good morning. I'm glad to be here. Welcome, brothers. It's great to have you here with us. Let's go ahead and jump in with our first case. This one is about a woman named Sally. On the way home from church, your wife starts to tell you about a woman at church, Sally, who just doesn't seem right. She tells you Sally hasn't been at the weekly women's Bible study for months, probably since her husband died. She says she's noticed that Sally doesn't stay long after church and seems worried or preoccupied when she's there. Your wife heard that Sally may have to move out of her house because she just can't make ends meet financially. Several women have tried to reach out to her, but she's distant and won't share. Your wife thinks that deacons or elders may need to get involved. How would we start thinking about uh handling the case?

Bob Keys 2:21

I think here we have a real scriptural evidence of ways in which we should be helping. The Bible talks often about the orphan and the widow, the alien and the sojourner, the prisoner, sick. You know, widow is one of those. And uh this is a clear one that we needed to be involved with her immediately upon the death of her of her husband. It didn't we should have we should we should have known about this. We should have been involved from the very start to encourage her, to help her, to uh walk with her through uh settling the estate and getting things in her name, uh working with her lawyer, uh mowing her grass and taking care of her and and finding out what her her situation is regarding her house. This is not something that's uh that's that's unique. After months, we should have been here on the day her husband died at the funeral, encouraging her and blessing her, making sure she had other women beside her walking beside her and um and encouraging her along with the deacons and the elders. This is something that really is clear in scripture. This is where we walk with this lonely and unsure and financially not sure where she's at. And we need to walk her through and help her mow the grass and help her help her uh fix her toilet and do whatever else she needs, not having her husband anymore to take care of those things. So these are some of the things that uh, you know, just having that relationship with this widow is so important, so important, right? Right right from the very beginning that we we uh go to the funeral, we need to be involved uh with all these things, including the grief experiences with other women that could that are widows that can help her alongside go through these things, which is so critical.

Lynne Hunter 4:04

So I would echo what Bob said. Um, we need to be proactive right from the start, but just in looking at our case here and realizing, oh, we did not, we weren't proactive. She isn't on our widows list. We would jump in, right? I would jump in right from the start. I would make that phone call. I wouldn't wait for the elders, wouldn't wait for the minister. I might give them a heads up and he maybe even invite them to go along with me. But I would jump in early here. This is a a place where we need to to start early. And if my wife tells me, hey, we've less left this person behind, that's a warning to me that says, Hey, I'm not doing my job. I need to get involved sooner. And uh then also we would reach out to the other women and say, Hey, uh, are you willing to visit with me? And some that that makes a world of difference when you can get the uh person to be comfortable with you, but also with others in your church. And uh once once you get that going, you'll be surprised how fast we can get things moving. And then we can start working on those real world needs. What is their fan financial uh uh issues? Um, how how can we as a church address them? Do we need other outside resources? And so we look at that big picture and then and then we start uh echoing, uh circling it and getting it going in the right place. But this is one uh would be a warning for us to say, hey, we need to relook at what we're doing, re-re-look at hey, where's our diaconate? Are we focusing on the right thing? As in people, not buildings or bucks, but people. That that's our real goal is focusing on the right thing, looking for those people that are falling through the cracks.

Speaker 6:01

I think one aspect of this case that can be challenging is there seems to be um maybe a lack of trust. And something that I've learned over the years is sometimes that requires identifying someone who can work with you as a deacon or you know, even just as a church member, someone who knows this person and has their trust and who will uh help bridge that gap. If if there's someone you know that person's close to, um you know, maybe go with that person uh and sit down. But uh, and even within, you know, if you if you're church blessed with multiple deacons, the way some people respond to to some men is gonna be different from others, and you need to in a potentially precarious emotional situation, um, think about who's really gonna be trying to build that trust and and break through a little bit because because some just have particular gifts at doing that and are very good. And you know, even sometimes age can make a difference if you have a deacon who's uh 28 versus you know a deacon who's 70, and maybe it's an older woman, she might respond better to the to the older man or something. Um, you know, just to be try to be thoughtful about that. But I think these are are really good answers. And the biggest takeaway I had here is try to not get yourself in this situation, right? Be you need to be proactive from the start with a woman like this, uh, or even a you know a man who's been widowed, um, and be involved and know what's going on as much as you can.

Speaker 1 7:34

I agree with everything uh your your brother said, uh, having left it to go that that long. In uh my part of the world, at times uh there are people that are very open and there are people that are very private. And that's why uh when there's the private there and uh the privacy there, and so we try to be sensitive to that and try to get them to open up. And so that's why uh, you know, uh having uh work with the session to have a diaconal pastor pastoral visit, because she's she's already um she's not talking with the sisters that she's used to. And we would uh for us uh uh in that area, we would uh go at it a little bit different in with the pastoral visit and then uh getting her to open. And we and there are times when there are people that are very open and we're right there.

Speaker 3 8:30

Sometimes the best people to help people like this would be another widow or widower. Uh sometimes they can really understand uh what Sally is going to need. They can also help us understand the needs that we may not understand very well. So uh talking to Toe or widow might be best for the deacons. What did you face? How did you go through it? And how can we, you know, understand and best deal with Sally as we go through this as a diaconate with this lady? That oftentimes helps us understand, if we haven't gone through it, what we need to do and how we need to do it in a very tactful, loving, and gracious way. It can really give us wisdom that we need to have in these hard situations with this dear woman that's lost her husband that uh may lose her house. And again, we have to guard against this. We have to help her with at least keeping her from getting far behind her debts as well on a mortgage. Uh, this is important, and certainly this is going to scare her. So this is these are the kind of things we've got to do right from the start to make sure that she is moving into the church and not away from the church and uh showing her love and care that she certainly needs.

Speaker 9:44

Very good. Let's move on to the second case. Um, this is the Smith family. It's Thanksgiving time, and the deacons are preparing to provide turkey dinners to all the needy families at church. There's an announcement in the bulletin asking for the names of families the congregation feels may be in need. As you and the deacons meet to discuss how much to purchase, one family name comes up a few times. It's not a new name. You've known this family well, and as a diaconate, have supplied them monetarily over the years. Sadly, their situation hasn't changed, even though the elders and deacons have offered financial solutions many times.

Speaker 4 10:19

You go back one more time. It's never a time to stop with any family. I've been in this situation more than once, and you just have to keep on persevering and realize that every time you have contact, you also get one more chance to teach the gospel because our call as deacons is not just helping physically and financially. My call as a deacon is also to bring the gospel on a daily basis. And so if I get one more chance, I might touch a child in that family. Not me, but God using me to touch that child in that family. And they might become, you know, that might be the the one time where you make that impression so that they go on and make um profession of faith, realizing that, hey, I heard the gospel. Yeah, it's a long road, but yet it's it's a it's a fulfilling road. We get that opportunity to present one more time the gospel through that turkey.

Speaker 3 11:33

I think that's so true. I was thinking about the children as well. I I think uh sometimes it more is caught than taught, and we can teach all day, but when the children see the love and the ministry of the church and the deacons and the and the people of the church, what a blessing to them to see and hear the gospel of Christ in word and deed. Connecting that word with the deed of Christ and the love of Christ is so important for those children. And so I agree with you, Lynn. That is so important. Um, one more turkey isn't a whole lot compared to uh to the gospel of Christ and these kids' heart and life. And I'm not talking, I also talk about the the the father and the wife, but particularly the children. I I totally agree with you, Lynn. I think it's so good. It's usually not money that's needed uh necessarily. I'm not saying you never give money, uh, but oftentimes it's a lot more about relationships and time and emotion heart that you we give to our congregants. This is where the action's at. So I I I'm not sure whether that meant uh they were giving them financial counseling, which is really good, or just money, or what that meant. But I think that's one thing we always have to realize is that it's it's a it's a deep subject here in terms of how we really respond in counsel, in financial giving, and especially in terms of how we impact the family for the cause of Christ, as Lynn had said.

Speaker 13:00

It's easy, I think, to hear that they've been offered financial solutions many times and hear that negatively. But it is important for us to remember that there are sometimes legitimate situations that have long-term needs, even monetary needs, right? There are cases where we need to help over and over because um, for whatever reason, a family isn't able to you know provide for itself in entirety. And so just because you've helped before doesn't mean that that has been um misused or unappreciated or or whatever, but it uh it may be very legitimate that someone has a need that goes on for their whole life.

Speaker 1 13:44

No, I do think that uh providing that and echo everything that all all you brothers have said, that uh you give the turkey, and there may be uh legitimate reason as that uh this case comes across as there's a little sense of rolling of the eyes there, because we hear that name before. And there may be a legitimate reason why uh it can't it comes across that way. But in a situation like that, you give it and you continue to work with them in the background on uh what those other solutions would be. Does it need uh does it need a job? Sometimes for us, uh, when um we have an ongoing case and we discern that there may be a problem, we ask uh uh uh invite them to see their budget, their checkbook, uh, where the some of the priorities are. And uh right now we're going through that with a young man, and our hearts are rejoiced because he's really responding and he just needed somebody to come alongside of him and to to help him with that. And um there are those, and also there's those long-term reasons why some people do have uh legitimate uh long-term uh needs like that, and we need to come alongside of them either way.

Speaker 14:59

Yeah, very good. I I appreciate the um humility here and the desire to just persevere in and helping, even when sometimes the road seems long and feels long. And I think with that, especially in providing food, you know, whether to someone in the church or if you have a walk-in case, or what a great way to bless people just by providing them food, you know, a way that is is very likely to be uh misused or abused, but a way to bless. And so I think that's a great type of ministry to have and giving me thought about whether we should do similar things here. Let's move on to the next case. Joe is an older gentleman in your church. He's quiet, polite, and very godly man. His wife died several years ago and he lives alone. He has grown children, but they live across the country. Recently you've noticed that Joe has been looking a bit disheveled, not his normal snappy self. He looks like he may be losing weight and just began to use a cane. You stop to talk to him about how he's doing, but he immediately says he's fine and tries to change the subject.

Speaker 3 16:05

Loneliness is one of the most evident things in our society, and it doesn't preclude uh people in our church. Many, many, many people are are lonely. And this is another big aspect of the deaconate. We need to show love and mercy to the lonely. And uh this man is a godly man. Um Joe has served and been faithful for many years. Um we need to encourage him with uh uh inviting and making sure that many people invite him over and and have fun, food, and fellowship, those three together. I I think fun is the most important thing. Just have fun with him. Take him to a ball game, do something. Uh he needs people. The worst thing we can do is not uh include him in the church. The best thing is to uh make sure he's he's uh he's got plenty of things to do with the body of Christ. And uh again, uh not hard. Our job is to know people in the church and get them connected, making sure that the families, especially the families, the the with young children, invite him over to include him in their family. Um and then I I have another idea. What about getting a ticket for him to go see his kids and make sure he's there to see his kids?

Speaker 4 17:34

This again goes back to um lists. You know, I don't know about other churches. I know Harvest, we our diaconate has a list. We have a widows, well, basically an anybody that's in what we call our harps group, which is I think over 70, ends up on the deaconate list, he would be automatically put there. Um and he would be one of the people that gets reviewed every deacon's meeting. Somebody checked up on this gentleman. Sometimes we miss him, but we try to keep track, and that's our job is keeping track of the elderly. Um, I think this is I don't know about other churches again, but I know Harvest, uh looking at our demographic, we're becoming older. And this is one of our our areas we've struggled in. How do we take care of these elderly people who don't have family? And this is what we have a committee working on this at Harvest, looking at what do we do? Uh what is our duty toward them? I think Bob had some excellent ideas in in getting this person involved. And I would echo Bob in hey, can we get him a ticket? Or can we get a ticket for his family to come visit him so that they get that connection. It's important we maintain that family connection. Tim uh Paul talks about it in Timothy, basically for the widows and the widow's list, but I think that provides is echoed here with the widowers, but it's also um one of the things is that Paul mentions is family, that the family should be taking care of them. Well, we can facilitate that family connection to make sure that they realize, oh, dad's getting a little older. What do we need to do? How can we help the church that he is in? So that is one of our things is to facilitate that family connection. Make sure that that isn't broken.

Speaker 19:52

We're gonna need to get that committee uh from Harvest on on the podcast at some point to discuss that topic. So that's that's an important topic. Our Deaconate just uh just this past uh week started reading together um Brian DeYoung's book, uh Honoring the Elderly, um Honoring the Elderly, a Christian's duty to aging parents, uh, as we've seen this as a need in our church, both as the congregation ages, and we have so many people in the church caring for aging parents. You know, this case study doesn't say you know, are the children believers and what's the this situation, but you could also think about the flip side here of you're in the church with these children or one of the children and thinking about their parent across the country. Um, and we want to be ready to to try to help and equip um because that's such a pressing need of our day as our whole population is aging, right? I mean, it's we're gonna see more and more of this.

Speaker 4 20:46

Yes, I would love to facilitate that and help. Uh let's talk about it as a as a denominational deacon.

Speaker 3 20:56

I think he also is going to need special help in in things that as he gets older that he can't do for himself, especially if he has his own house. Um, and I think we just being cognizant of his age, as as you've you guys have already said, but really thinking what would he need? And then how can I use a trip over there to encourage him and bless him? And do I have a handyman in the in the church that uh is good with people and uh would would enjoy spending some time with uh our friend and uh brother Joe? So I I think this is these are the kind of things that we can think about and we can connect people that um really can do the the kind of work that is needed for all these people. But certainly Joe can use a I'm sure a handyman to help come uh help him with uh with the things he needs in the house since he's uh obviously getting older and and and having those kind of needs.

Speaker 1 21:52

Certainly, yes. And we make phone calls to some of our elderly and check up on them. And some of them do live with families. And I really appreciate what I'm hearing from different parts of the church. We have some elderly, but we're not dealing with those same dynamics, if you will. And but that gives me gives us quite a bit of uh food for thought uh when we would come across them. So we deal with families, uh younger families in our midst, if you will. And uh so uh but the widows, we do give them calls and uh we check up on them and see how we can help them, how we can re uh how we can serve them.

Speaker 22:35

Very good. So I think two big takeaways. One is really uh as much as you're able, try to fill facilitate the family connection and um see children caring for their parents as they age. And also uh otherwise, we just need to be present and know our people and have them in our homes and help them know that we're there for them and ready to serve them. Well, let's go on to our next case. A few Sundays have passed since you've seen Margie and Bill. They are not very involved in church life and they keep to themselves, but usually attend morning worship regularly. You call to see if they're okay. Margie tells you that her husband Bill was in a car accident and is at the hospital in the ICU. Her voice sounds weak and raspy, but and you suspect she's been crying. She tells you they cannot afford for Bill to be in the hospital. Medicare will only cover a portion of the costs, and the rest they will have to pay, and it could be months before he is released. Margie and Bill have no children and no other living family members that you know of.

Speaker 4 23:35

First act is I'm calling a brother and we're going to visit.

Speaker 3 23:40

Yeah, but uh it's been two, it's been it's been how long? It's been weeks, two weeks. Yes, two weeks. Where are the deacons? Where is the elders? Where I mean, my lands, this is this is we didn't know about this. Um uh again, they need she needed encouragement and help from from day one. As soon as we heard that she was in the hospital, we should have been there, we should have uh helped her in any way possible um through this hard thing. Hospital stays are tough. Uh, and to be alone without your husband in the while he's in the hospital and and going to the hospital alone, these are hard things. And uh the church just needs to be there right from the start. Right from the start. So important.

Speaker 4 24:30

Okay. So harvest, they're different in that we have over six to seven hundred people attending on a Sunday morning. So to miss a person for a couple weeks is not unusual. By the third week, I know I've I I I know I've missed them. But even the second week, I usually know I miss them. But yeah, we can we can miss people uh in a church of that size. So I'll take a pass on that. But at the same time, I'm hoping that there are other at least one other family in that church that knows this family and will have called me. But then once I find out, then it's uh everybody on deck, and let's get this thing handled, let's figure it out. And that goes back to hey, what's the committee on aging found out? What agencies do we already need to get in touch with? Who could who can help us?

Speaker 3 25:29

And let's get the prayer chain going. I think financially is another big area where the deacons can certainly help significantly. Um obviously Medicare will pay for 80% in normal cases here. You're talking about 20%, and the hospital will work with anyone, anyone, and especially those in in need, like it looks like that the dukes are in. Um I would suggest that the deacons go, or at least one or two deacons go with the wife to the hospital and and talk with them, uh, and work with them and and and do whatever's needed to take care of these bills properly. Norse hospitals will will eliminate all the costs here, uh, other than the 80% that the that the Medicare already covers. So again, I don't think there's going to be many uh bills here, but the wife is concerned because she doesn't know this. The deacons need to know this, they need to be there, they need to help. Uh, again, one day, an average stay in the hospital of four days is is $15 or $20,000. But I believe you can get that down to near zero if the deacons work with the wife and the hospital to uh care for Bill and his wife's needs here. So uh again, I think that's another important aspect that the deacons have is just walking with them through these financial issues and making sure they're taken care of.

Speaker 26:54

As financial needs do arise, though, in a situation like this, if if they become large, this is a great situation for contacting your Presbyterian Diaconal Committee. And the Presbyterian Diaconal Committee can also push those things up to the Committee on Diaconal Ministries and both have funds uh available to help in these types of situations or or have ways to get funds. So, you know, this is a great way for us to remember we're Presbyterian and connectional, and our our churches, our people don't stand on their own, and our congregations don't stand on their own either. You can you know reassure uh this couple that they're gonna be okay, they're gonna be taken care of.

Speaker 1 27:34

In in a smaller congregation, the accident would have come like the first or second day afterward, through the pastor, through the prayer chain, to please pray for this person because uh they've had an accident, and that would have uh alerted the deacons to be proactive in uh you know in that situation. And uh so we we have a prayer chain and people call uh quite often. Uh we also use the uh uh another type of media where they go on there and put the prayer request. So we we get quite a bit that come through uh to alert us of things of that nature as well.

Speaker 28:20

Shiloh's only uh a third of the size of Harvest, but we're we're uh getting bigger and um big for an OP church. And something we've been trying to regroup on recently is dividing our congregation up among the deacons to where um every family unit has a deacon assigned to them, um, mostly so that we can help uh avoid situations like this where people are falling through the cracks. Um, to where, you know, right now we each have I think something like 15 or 17 family units under us. And we're trying to make sure that we we don't have to be totally responsible for everyone, but we're knowing what's going on with those people as much as we're able. And I think that's a good reminder, especially as the churches are growing over uh, you know, if you have 40 people, it's different from if you have 200 people or 700 people.

Speaker 1 29:15

Some churches uh you have uh like one or two deacons and they're working. So one of the things is other members are like our ears and our eyes to let us know what's happening in people that uh in people's lives that they do know and to to to to help us that way.

Speaker 29:33

Yeah, absolutely. We we kind of have a running joke here that uh most diaconal needs are learned in the women's bathroom through our wives, you know, as the ladies talk about things, they often uh pass those things back to us, which is a huge asset. And it's wise for us to remember to to be aware that you know, as as others are able to bring things like that to you.

Speaker 3 29:55

We have a similar situation at Grace than you do here there at Shiloh, is we have shepherding groups, and uh our deacons are are located in in one of the shepherding groups, so we really do track the people in our group. And I think that really helps if once you get larger, you need a way to make sure you know who you're responsible for. If you're responsible for everybody, you're responsible for nobody. And and and so I think it's good that you you really begin to focus your attention on on people in your group, and uh, and you you meet with them and you know them and you encourage them and you and then you can bring that to the deacon's meeting about your group and and encourage and get wisdom as well. I mean, that's why we have deacons meetings is is as much for for wisdom as a as a group as we do uh individually. But again, uh we at least have someone that's taking care of the needs in the shepherding group and and trying to address them right off the bat. But then uh the rest of the deacons are are there to to add support, wisdom, and encouragement. So yeah, I think that's uh that's a good model we've tried to use as well, Tim, and and uh we found it to be at least somewhat effective uh in our work.

Speaker 31:07

I think some big takeaways here are one, you know, just being aware, knowing when your people are out, having a relationship with people so that you know that this woman feels comfortable going to a deacon or the pastor or somebody to let let them know that this is happening. But also when you start to be involved, realize that this on the face of it appears to be a financial issue. But I think we've as we've discussed, is not primarily a financial issue. It's an issue of of fear and uncertainty and I think fear really in a in a big way. And uh, as we come into this, it doesn't just need to be, oh, here we are with the checkbook, but here we are with the love of Christ and uh the hope that we can have even through uh tragedies like this, uh, and be able to reassure this couple and let them know that the Lord is with them and that he's blessed them with deacons who love them and care for them and a church who love them and care for them. And with that, also, I think as Bob was sharing, um, you know, if you're able to know how to navigate some of these financial situations through hospitals, insurance, this kind of thing, uh, it can make a huge help to people because these come up a lot and people don't always know. Um I think there is value in deacons arming themselves with knowledge or at least resources about how they can help in these kinds of areas. All right, let's look at our last case. Uh Vacation Bible School was well attended this year, and the pastor is excited for the new connections that were made with neighborhood families. He mentions one family in particular whose children came every day and they attend a church nearby. The mother, Christine, is a single woman raising four children in a small government subsidized housing facility. After speaking with Christine a few times, your pastor feels she may need to speak to a deacon. She has already spoken with the deacons at her home church, but hasn't gotten any aid. Christine's daughter, Esther's birthday, is coming up in a few weeks, and she doesn't have any extra money to buy presents.

Speaker 3 33:13

This is one super case. I um I like these because they will give me a reason to talk to another church about diaconal ministries. And so I'm not talking about Christine right now, but uh we'll talk about her later. But again, I can get involved with another church about diaconal ministry. I get to know them, get to know their deacons if they have them, get to know them as a church, what they believe, and begin to learn how I can work together with them for this woman, Christine, since she's involved in that church. I don't want to necessarily at this point pull her away from this church. But again, there may be a lot that I can learn and do and be involved with another church that uh is hopefully preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and biblical in most ways. And so again, I would see this as an opportunity there as well as with Christine to start off with. So I would certainly get involved and begin a conversation with them about her and how we can work together to bless her and encourage her. And uh again, how many ways will this encourage not only Christine and her family, but also the Church of Jesus Christ? So I it's a it's a bigger picture here, I think, in this case than in many other cases. So uh that's to start with. But again, then we talked about Christine. So I'll let you guys talk about Christine, but uh, I'd I'd first go to the church and talk to them.

Speaker 4 34:35

I would agree, Bob, is this a good place where we're gonna get church-to-church connection. They might not be Orthodox Presbyterian, but if they're preaching the gospel, why would I want Christine to leave that church? Maybe this is a place where Harvest, because it's so big and has resources, can help. Our best option might be to help funnel the money through that diaconate. Maybe that diaconate doesn't have the same funds. So it gives me an opportunity to work with the church, but it also gives me an opportunity to work with Christine and what is the gospel? What did her children learn? Did you know we are again looking at touching their lives? So they this is one more fingerprint that they see of what the church does. Um, not just their home church, but another church around the corner. So this is where we get involved, and but we stay in touch with that first church unless it's not a gospel teaching church. That would be my only thing there is if it's not gospel teaching, uh, then we're gonna have some more talk. But again, it's it's about the gospel and helping them move forward in the gospel.

Speaker 3 35:59

It's also about the children. I I I I think that is where I would focus my attention on is that the children might see the gospel of Christ, as you mentioned, Lynn. That is so this is where it's at. These kids are going to be influenced, and they are influenced. They're going to they're going to vacation Bible school and loving it. And so uh, you know, this is just uh where right right where it's at is is we want to make sure that they see the love and the mercy of Christ uh from both churches, if possible. And uh this is um uh huge in the life of these young kids.

Speaker 36:31

Seems like the pastor has gotten to know this woman at least a little bit through the VBS, and I think it would be a good opportunity to um ask the pastor if he would go with you to try to visit with her in their home. And I think you can learn a lot through being in someone's home and and seeing what's going on and talking to the family. And I think if the pastor or someone else has gotten to know her a bit, that'd be a good uh door opening to try to find out more.

Speaker 3 37:00

Oh, definitely. I uh she has four kids and she's alone. And and I mean, this is this is a hard situation. Don't we talk about, I mean, I haven't talked about Christine, but she's in a deep problem. Is she getting any financial support at all from her father, other children? Right. I mean, this is critical. And uh, you know, I I don't know, but this becomes a very difficult situation for any church and any deacon board with this kind of situation, but it it it it's a one of a great opportunity to minister the cause of Christ and and and the gospel. So uh that's what it's about. It's about the gospel.

Speaker 37:37

That was our last case, brothers. Anything to add to any of these? Anything you've maybe thought of as the times pass that you'd like to add to any of these?

Speaker 3 37:45

I'm I'm glad to hear uh that we all focused on Jesus Christ and the gospel. That to me is the most important thing. And uh if if it doesn't work out in some of these cases, which most a lot of cases they don't, I mean, especially ones that are outside the church, like this last one. Sometimes they really don't. And yet, if the children can see the gospel of Christ in our actions and the church actions, in the uh friendship and the encouragement and the love from the church, this can mean seeds in their lives for their hearts and minds in the longer term.

Speaker 4 38:19

One thing I would encourage from this last one is if you have a V VS, is the deacon it involved in some way, either as teachers, helpers, just being there during the evening or morning if you can. Ours is in the evening, and just having us there, you can make that observation of the people coming in, whether they're from the church or from the neighborhood, you can get that firsthand knowledge right up front. The other thing I would say is I got taught by an old pastor, I think he comes from Daniel's area of the country, Ray Comrade. And when I was questioned in front of the session when I became a deacon many years ago, he pounded into me it's not the elders' job to always preach the gospel. It's part of the diaconal job to go out and teach the gospel and help with the counseling and head that off right up front. And that is one thing we try to shape our diaconate around is what is our responsibility to the gospel and how do we do it?

Speaker 39:31

I think big picture from all of these is a good reminder and encouragement to me to be proactive as a deacon and not just wait for things to come your way, but to really know your people, to know their needs and uh build relationship and trust with them so that as needs arise, they're they're gonna be comfortable to to speak with you. And it's easy to be distracted by so many things and pulled in a lot of directions, but um, the Lord's called us to know uh our flock, uh his flock, and to to care for them. Uh I've thought several times in this discussion about um Van Damme's book, The Deacon. He talks frequently in there about how the deacon's role is to care for the the poor, the sick, and the lonely in the in the body of Christ, so that no one uh has to uh to suffer under those unnecessarily. And I think we see different pictures of that in these different case studies, and it's a good um framework for us to reflect through as we see our people in. Um often many times someone could be lonely, for example, uh for reasons of their own making in many ways. And uh and often people can be poor for reasons of their own making, and yet that doesn't excuse us from seeking to serve them and know them and and walk alongside them. Uh it's a good good reminder to me, an encouragement to me to to be proactive in that.

Speaker 3 41:03

Yeah, as I mentioned, loneliness is one of the largest problems we have in our society. It's in the church as well. And I appreciate what you all men have said uh regarding the work of the deacon in regards to including loneliness in the church. And we we don't often talk about it, but there are so many lonely people in the social media world that we live in. We isolate ourselves and we don't know one another, we don't really care for one another. And the church should be so so different than that. And it takes a lot of of our strength and energy to make sure that we don't have that, but that's our job. And it's about people, not about buildings and not about um fixing the toilets, it's it's about people. And praise God that we can spend our time in people things that build the kingdom of God and that encourage others.

Speaker 41:55

Amen. Well, I want to thank all three of you for discussing these cases with me today. And we thank our listeners and we hope these discussions will be helpful to you as you serve in your local church. And if you enjoy these uh formats of these uh case studies, uh please let us know and we'll consider doing more in the future. Thank you, brothers.

Speaker 3 42:13

Thank you. It was a pleasure being here. Thanks so much. Thank you, Tim.

Speaker 42:18

My pleasure.

David Nakhla 42:19

Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, thereformdeacon.org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. And please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reform Deacon podcast.