Ep. 121 | Navigating Loneliness with Special Guest Miriam Newton

This month, we're diving into part two of our sermon series "Scars on the Soul" looking at the topics of grief, loneliness and estrangement; and we're doing something a little different on the Let's Talk About That podcast. Each week, we'll be inviting a local professional to join in on our Sunday sermon series conversation to offer some tangible advice and tools for navigating that week's topic. We know that these conversations surrounding scars on our soul can be challenging, and we want to provide as many resources as possible to find help, hope and healing in the midst of these struggles. Be sure to check to show notes for more information and helpful resources. You can find our full "Scars on the Soul" sermon series on our Youtube Channel at youtube.com/OrchardCC.

On today's episode, Pastor Chip Parker and Astin Kahnk are joined by Miriam Newton, Executive Director of New Ways Counseling Center, for a conversation about loneliness. Listen in as they discuss some of the generational indicators of loneliness, along with how we can take steps toward embracing community in seasons of loneliness.

Resources:

newwayscc.org - how to give/connect 

If you have any questions about this podcast, or about The Orchard Community Church, we would love to hear from you! Visit our website at theorchardcc.org and fill out our contact form, or send us a message on Facebook (@IAmTheOrchard) or Instagram (@theorchard.cc). Until next time!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You may feel lonely, but you're never alone. Yes. And there's a difference there. You can feel lonely, but you're not alone. But just because you recognize you're not alone is not necessarily going to take away that loneliness magically. That doesn't negate the truth that he's with you in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

God is with us. And if we can put ourselves in that mindset to know that he's with us and ask him to show us when we're lonely, it's amazing he will.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

Welcome to Let's Talk About That, the podcast where we deep dive into Sunday's message and explore your questions. I'm your host, Aston Kank, and I'm excited to share this journey with you. Whether you're a longtime member of the Orchard or a first-time visitor, Let's Talk About That is your space to explore, reflect, and connect. Join us as we navigate the intricacies of faith, spirituality, and daily life, seeking to understand how the wisdom shared on Sundays can be applied to our modern challenges. So, grab a cup of coffee, find a comfortable space, and let's dive in together. This is Let's Talk About That, where the conversation about Sunday's message never stops. Well, welcome back to Let's Talk About That. Last week, we started our sermon series, Scars on the Soul, and we discussed grief with Dale Tompkins, and it was a phenomenal conversation. So I would encourage you if you haven't listened to it, go back, take a second, listen to it, because it has a lot of great nuggets in it that I think you will be able to apply to your life or at least take it to someone maybe that's going through a season of grief. But today I'm very excited to dig into week two where we look through the lens of loneliness. And I am here with Chip Parker, and I'm here with Miriam Newton, who is the executive director of New Ways Counseling. Miriam, welcome to Let's Talk About That. Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we're glad to have you. So I'd love for you to kind of tell us a little about who you are and what you do.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Okay, I would love to. My name is Miriam, and I am the executive director and the founder of New Ways Counseling Center. We are located in Trenton, Florida. Okay. But we do not just serve Gilchrist County. We serve all the counties around, and actually, and we're in two countries as well. Really? All right, what countries? Columbia and Costa Rica. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Now, to be clear, not Columbia County. No. Okay. Actually, but sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

But yes, we do. We actually see clients that are in Columbia County as well, which is really exciting. And I did I did some digging, and we actually have some clients that attend the orchard. Very cool. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 2:43

So they will know who you are when they listen. Yes. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

We we do, you know, one of the things at the orchard is, you know, we have a heart for like this region of Florida, north central Florida, rural communities. And Trenton, you know, we got friends in Trenton, partner with churches in Trenton. And so Trenton, Bell, Brantford, Fort Wide, High Spring, like that, that's us. And so operating in the same world's gonna be cool. So man, yeah, it is excited. So how long ago did you start the center?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

So the center is we are we're on our third year. Wow. So just beginning our third year. So such an amazing God story. I would love to tell you about how New Wave started. Yes. And how just kind of my story. Yeah. Just to give you an idea of who I am. So I actually, let's see, I guess if it was almost 15 years ago, I was asked by our pastor to step into a youth minister role at Pine Grove. Okay. I said no.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Those are our friends at Pine Grove, by the way. Oh, really? Very cool. What a small world. Wonderful. We worked with uh Jared and John a lot. They've been on my podcast, actually. You had them on.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Wonderful. And now I am. That is great. Yes. That is what we are actually located in their backyard, which is wonderful. They lease us the building behind their church. Okay. That's really cool. Just an amazing story. Yeah. Years ago, Pastor Jared's dad, actually, Brother Greg. Okay. Um, he asked me to come on staff as the youth minister when our youth minister of about 13 years was leaving. Okay. I was like, no, no. Thanks, but no thanks. I, you know, my answer to him was, I'm not, I'm I haven't been to seminary. I'm not a preacher. I'm not I'm not a youth pastor. Can't do it. And he was like, okay, Miriam, I really think this is what the Lord is saying. And I said no. And I will tell you that that week following was the hardest week of my life. I could not eat. I could not sleep. I was so just in a bad place. And so finally I go back to my pastor's office and I walk in and I'm like, Pastor Greg, what is happening to me? He's like, just say yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Yeah. Just say yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Just say yes. You know, just say yes. God wants you here. So that began a tremendous journey for me. Okay. That's hilarious. Yeah. Just say yes. I'm going to use that. Just put your yes on the table. Yes. Just say yes because God wants you to do this and he's going to not let you sleep until you just say yes. So, and that was it. No sleeping, no eating, nothing, just uncomfortableness. So I said yes in that. I, and to go back a little bit further, 20 years before that, I had gone to school for psychology. My dream was to be a mental health counselor. Okay. But I never furthered my education. I stopped at my bachelor's, did casework, and fostered. We fostered for about 12 years, my husband and I. So very involved with children and children's needs. So that was my backstory. So while I'm in ministry at Pine Grove, working with families and teenagers, I loved it. Brother Greg also found out that apparently I was really good at counseling in those really tough situations. So he started taking me. Okay. Miriam, come with me to the hospital. Miriam, this has happened. I need you to join me. Pushed me to go back to school. Okay. It's like, you need to do this. This is what you're called to do. So he really pushed me to go back. So at 47 years old, I go back to grad school. Ever too old to go back to school. Yes. So I went to grad school and I'm going to be a mental health counselor. So I went back to school for my master's in clinical social work. Okay. So basically, so I could do counseling. So in my practicum and private practice and through college, I worked for a private practice mental health counselor in our area that was actually in the schools. Okay. So my place, my role for about four years was in a middle high school. My office was located in the cafeteria. It was amazing, you know. Here I am. Yes. I'm in the cafeteria. I'm a youth pastor, you know, in the cafeteria. But the problem was that I was a youth minister in a school cafeteria working with mental health needs and unable to introduce them to Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. So there lies the problem. Yeah. So that's where new ways started. Very cool. It was the concept of we need professionals, educated ministers of the gospel in this field. Yeah. So in that, I started doing some research and found that you can license through the National Christian Counselors Association, not be state licensed, so not clinical, and be pastoral counselors. Very cool. With clinical knowledge. Yeah. So that is where we are. Wow. Yes. Pretty neat story. So in that, I was in a school and let me go backwards a little bit. I was in a school and there was a student that he was 12 years old and he had gone through three counselors. And those counselors, he was just angry. His brother had committed suicide. Lost his 21-year-old brother to suicide. He had not connected with any counselors. Well, I got called in there. So I go, Well, we connected. And this was about in March. And what happened was at the end of the school year, we have to refer the students to another center if their families can't afford services from the practice that I worked for. So I had to call this mom and say, I'm so sorry, but it's summer. We don't offer services in the schools during the summer. So I'm going to have to refer your son. And let me tell you, she gave me what's what? I'm sure. Yes. You're going to leave him. Seriously. Like you've connected with him. He's doing better. This can't happen. So I broke the rules.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah. Yeah. I'm good at that as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yes. I broke the rules and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to be working as interim, as an interim kids minister at my church. If you want to bring him this summer to see me, I will work with him over the summer. And then I proceeded to call my boss and say, you can fire me if you need to. I have I have stepped out of my role. Yeah. Which is where new ways really started. So very cool. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

That is good. We we did a series not too long ago at the church that we said we we titled It Called to This. And it was all about calling, you know, and how your calling may be your career. It may not be your career, or you may find a way to make your calling your career. And so it sounds like, you know, it started with a burden and then God opened doors and we found a way, hey, this is my calling, but now it's my career. And yeah, I love when those things match up.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yes. And so we don't charge. Okay. We are absolutely not able to charge for services because my boss owns the cattle on a thousand hills. There you go. I doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

And that is what God said we started and we were charging at a sliding scale fee. Okay. And the Lord said no. Wow. Um, it was very clear. You know, God just spoke to my small little team. There was only two of us there at the time. And it was, my salvation is free, and your services will be tuned around. And we have walked in that. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So and you do have, you know, fundraisers to allow people to help support and do that. Because you were telling us like your big fundraiser, I guess, is coming up. So tell us tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Our our gala is May 8th. That is our largest fundraiser for the year. Like I said, we're only three years old. And let me back up. We now have nine paid counselors on staff. Oh, what is staff. Very cool. We do not have any grants. Wow. So it's all private funded. This is it's churches. We have church support. We have individuals that support us. We have businesses in our community that support us. God has just done a miraculous thing. Yeah. You, my husband says all the time, he's like, you can't look at our budget and not know that God has done this because it makes no sense.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

As soon as you put your yes on the table, it's like just watch what God will do. And this is one a great just testimony of what that is of like, wow. That's so awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

So we have our our counselors are the best of the best. They are ministers first. Very ministers of the gospel of Christ. Yeah. And then they are trained in master's level and trauma, counseling, chaplaincy. Okay. All of the above. Very cool. So onto our fundraiser. Yes. Our largest fundraiser is May 8th. It's our gala. It's Together We Can. Love it. We're having it. We're holding it at the fairgrounds, and it's kind of in between Levy Dixie and Gilchrist Counties. Yep. Right there because it's the largest place in our area and it's a pretty big event.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

And it and it covers, you know, a lot of people there as well. And so you do that as a fundraiser. If uh if other people wanted to kind of help support the ministry there, how do they do that?

SPEAKER_02 11:29

They can just get on our website. It's newwayscc.org.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Okay. We'll try to link that in the show notes for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

That would be wonderful. And there is a place where they can buy tickets for the event or they can just donate.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So I I I guess one more question. Do you is it just like students, teenagers, or is it everybody?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

No, we we serve from five years old to a hundred. Okay. Wow. Very good.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

So 101 are at the end of the year. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

They're 101. We're not gonna you're too hard.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I'm not sure if they think we're gonna teach you, you know. That's really cool. That's good to hear. It's a great story.

SPEAKER_05 12:04

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, thanks for being on today. So I kind of briefed you a little bit on it before we met, but we're in the sermon series called Scars on the Soul. And little backstory, Chip did this sermon series, what, in 23?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Uh, yeah, I think it's right. April 23.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

April 23. And he was looking at the just some topics maybe that weren't necessarily talked about, but a lot of our people were feeling. And those were it was addiction, anxiety, and depression were the three you talked about in 23. And so we had such a great just it was one of those, one of those marking series. A lot of people were still talking about it. And so Chip and our pastors talk about what could that look like if we brought it back this year. So we're diving deeper into the lenses of grief, loneliness, and estrangement. So today I'd love to talk with you kind of about loneliness and isolation. So my first question is what are some indicators that we may be feeling lonely or isolated?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Some indicators. Yes. Well, I would say that we're seeing in other people or ourselves. I could say both. Okay, both. So you're gonna find that you start backing away from things, negative self-talk, you know, they don't really want me to come. I wasn't invited. Yeah. I don't really want to be around people. It can look like signs of of sadness, just not wanting to socialize. Okay. Not as motivated as you once were.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

There's a lot of different signs that loneliness can kind of come at us that we see. Yeah. It's I like to look at it like loneliness, you know, God created us to be in relationship with people.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah. Genesis what, 218, it's not good for man to be alone. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

And and what and God's intent for us was in the garden was to have relationship with him and relationships with others. So when we're not connecting with others, whether that be socially, it could be socially you're feeling isolated, like you're not connecting with the group, you're you're you're not playing the role or the purpose that you feel like you should be playing. Yeah. It can be physically, it can be that, you know, you have moved locations and you don't know people. Yeah. You're not connecting.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

You don't feel like you belong. And it can be situational.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

You know, that loneliness when something changes, you know, the kids move out of the house. I'm going through that, you know. It's different. Yeah. That empty nesters you lose a loved one, a spouse, or yeah, situational. So we're going to see lots of different things in people. A lot of times you're going to see, say, if your friend or someone in your family is struggling with loneliness, the first thing is you're going to see is they're going to back off instead of pull in.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Which is which is kind of counterintuitive, right? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yes. But I I think that's kind of a coping mechanism. You know, I I instead of being rejected, yeah, I'm going to just back off myself.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Yeah. It's easier.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah. I think one of the things that I was struck by when, you know, just kind of studying loneliness from a more, you know, psychological viewpoint is, and I guess it's something that you know, but you don't realize explicitly till you read it, is that loneliness is incredibly subjective because you don't have to be alone to be lonely. And some people may be alone and not lonely because they're enjoying the season of, you know, being able to pull back. And, you know, that was just kind of an eye-opener for me that loneliness is about what you are experiencing, what your expectations are, and if they're being met, it really has nothing to do with the surrounding you're in.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Right. No. And if you look at the population of people that struggle the most with loneliness, and and we're seeing this in our center, that age group is probably 18 to 24, which is crazy because they are the most quote unquote connected. Social media and everything. Yes. They are connected, they're involved, they're, you know, they're snapping their friends all day long. They're, you know, and that is what we see. 18 to 24 is a really hard time where they feel lonely. Now that loneliness is that connection piece. Yeah. It's where do I belong more than just, you know, I'm alone. Yeah. It's I don't belong. I don't fit. And another thing we look at at our center is we a tool that we use is temperament, which is temperament is the concept that we were designed by our creator in a specific way. So if you ever see, like if you've if you've been a parent and you've had multiple children, you'll know that one child will want to be held and snuggled and close to you and not put down. And then their sibling who's in the same environment, raised with the same parents, they want to be put down. Yeah. You know, I only want to be held if I need to eat. Yeah. You know, I want to be put down. And that is part of the temperament, their design. So not all of us need as many people as others. And like you were saying, that some people are not lonely and they're alone. Yeah. Well, God gives us all different needs. Yeah. And those needs when we're not, they're not being filled the way that God intended for them us to be filled, how they're supposed to be filled, we can really find ourselves lonely.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah. So let me kind of maybe press into that, especially with that age demographic that you mentioned, because I think that, you know, maybe some people listening to this would immediately default to, well, they just have unrealistic expectations for what relationships should be, and that's why those expectations aren't met. Having talked with people in that age group, do you think that, okay, they have unrealistic expectations for what adult relationships may look like? And so that's why those expectations aren't being met and they're feeling lonely. Or is it that or is it something else? Like they're just not finding what they need as an individual in those relationships for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

That's a good, that's yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think that if we want to go the spiritual route, what we see is a lot of times that they're trying to fill that void and that connection with their creator with other people. Yeah. Our spouse will never meet those needs for us. Our other person cannot give us that connection piece that we were designed that only Christ can fill. Yeah. So they're searching, seeking. That's funny. We had spoken about Angie had referred me to you guys, my friend, and she's she speaks and teaches. Yes. We love Angie. Yes. And she teaches students in the in high school the difference between infatuation and love. And I love the way that she teaches it. And that infatuation piece, I think there's a confusion there when the infatuation piece goes away, even with friendships.

SPEAKER_04 18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

And it just becomes normal. That younger generation sometimes, yes, that's their expectation, is that it stays in that infatuation phase. Love is a choice.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

The good feelings sometimes don't always stay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to choose them. So that that could be unmet expectations that are a little unrealistic. But I ultimately I think that that a lot of times it's just the void of where the father is supposed to be. Yeah, that's good. You know, that that knowing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

I think in my experience, you know, as a pastor, and you know, even even as a younger pastor, what I would see a lot of times is it seems like those unmet expectations in relationships centered around life transitions. It seemed like, you know, we would have young adults that would leave college and feel like they couldn't find community because they weren't living in a dorm with everybody like they were before. Now they're on their own. Or then when they get married and have kids, well, I can't find community because nobody's over at my house seven nights a week hanging out and watching TV shows. But now it's because you have kids and they take so much time. And so I do think that, you know, maybe there is something to having to readjust our expectations based on what stage of life we're in. But I would say I think sometimes even older generations who have a difficult time leaning into mental health maybe use the, well, tough luck snowflake too often and not realize, no, there's a learning curve, but there's also real issues going on that need to be addressed because the world we're in now is just a different beast than it was 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yes, yes. And mental health is a real it's a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. And and being Christian, being a Christian center, you know, you can't just pray it away. Yeah. And a lot of times, you know, that older generation, I don't want to sound harsh, but you know, feel free.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

I do all the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Okay. You're you're not you're not praying enough. You're not reading the word enough. You're not, you know, Jesus will fix it. You know, it's his will. Those things don't help when our when we are really having mental health issues. Yeah. So one thing that I I always like to explain to our clients that come in is, you know what, a thing that God made us to make life easy for us is actually something that the enemy uses to make life very difficult, which is neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters. Yeah. Okay. So what is a neurotransmitter? Well, a neurotransmitter is when we do an activity, we think a thought. We so I'm gonna give you an example. So I get a new job in Gainesville and I'm driving there. I don't know where I'm going. I've only been there once for the interview, right? So I'm nervous, I've don't I don't have my radio on. I'm paying attention. I've got my GPS going, I'm paying attention. I'm having to think about what I'm doing. After about two weeks at this new job, oh, I'm listening to the radio, I'm talking on the phone. I don't even remember going through Newberry. Yeah. Because that neurotransmitter has connected. To make life easier. God did that. He spread that in us. So we don't have to think about it. It's natural. It just happens. Yeah. When we think a thought or we stay in a behavior for a long period of time, this connection happens. Gotcha. If that thought is I'm lonely, I don't belong, I don't fit in, and we think it for a period of time. If we create a neurotransmitter where we don't even have to think it, it just becomes us. It's physical. Yeah. It's not just something you can just pray away. Yeah. So that I like to call them trenches. I'm like, listen, it our neurotransmitters, super highways is what they call them. Yeah. Made to make our lives easier. When we think a thought for a period of time, it becomes a ditch, sometimes like a canyon. Yeah. So counseling, mental health. Well, that's because now you have someone that's going to walk with you to teach you, to give you the tools to put dirt in the ditch, is what I like to say. One shovel at a time. Yeah. Because then once you've got the dirt in the ditch, you fill that up and then we can create a new one.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Well, but and like you said, what loneliness will do then is just beget more loneliness.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yes. Yes. It's just going to create that, it's going to get deeper and deeper until you change something. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Yeah. Well, when and sometimes this is the thing. Sometimes we don't even know that we're thinking those thoughts or we've thought those thoughts all of our life. It's a belief system that was ingrained in us when we were young and we've stayed in it.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

And that has caused this neurotransmitter to just be. We are just that, you know, and and digging out takes help. Yeah. It's it is physical. It's not just a willpower thing. So you have to learn how to do the things you need to do to create new pathways. Yeah. So it's it's not like I always say it's not rocket science, but having somebody to walk alongside of you and help you to figure out where it's coming from, that belief system is huge. I always, this is my my saying, I always say everywhere we go. I'm like, everyone needs a counselor. Scripture tells us that. Without counsel, the nations will fall.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Everyone needs a counselor, not everyone needs a diagnosis. Yeah. You know, there's a huge difference. Um, some do need diagnosis, they're real. Yeah. And we need the clinical treatment plans, medication. Those things are needed and necessary, but not for everyone. But everyone needs a counselor. Yeah. Everyone needs that safe place. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I like that. You know, everybody needs mine to talk to. Yeah. Just don't spend as much time talking to stupid people.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

Right. Yes. Please. Now I got a question for you. So what if someone, you know, listening here is now they're hearing what you're saying, like, oh wow, okay, maybe I am finding myself withdrawing. I am finding myself, you know, excluding myself from others. What would you say like a first initial step? Maybe if they're not in a community, what would you say the first step you would suggest them to start kind of, I guess, digging out of those trenches, so to speak?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

To one step at a time, not to try to, you know, I'm gonna just go to the church with 500 people on Sunday and get to the small group, you know, start small. You know, it depends on where they're at. If they're if they're very isolated, it's gonna be okay. When was the last time you went to the store? When was the last time? Those kind of things. Yeah. And encourage small steps at a time. Because trying to jump in, yeah, you know, is is hard. The other thing that I would do is try to help them figure out their temperament, what their needs are. Okay. And how would they do that? And that that is there's a lot of tests online, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Okay. Oh, I am all about like personality tests that I'm like, that's that's one of my love languages. Angie and I talk about this all the time.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yes. So temperament is I need to do it with you guys. Yes, I'm gonna send it to you guys after this so you can do it, especially since you love it.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yes. So there are so are are you are you the Enneagram system? Like I'm familiar with okay. So there was a time when I was like, you know, one dumb decision away from just nailing numbers on everybody's door. Yes. Like this is your personality. This is your, you know, so send it.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yes, I will send it. So temperament is huge. Online is not gonna be the same as what we do at our center because we use the National Christian Counselors Association, their assessment, and they have five temperaments out anywhere else. You're only gonna see four, and they break it down into three specific areas. So they're very in-depth. They're the only ones that do that. So our assessment is a little deeper. But um, so that that's what I would do. If they were coming to me, I would be like, figure out what your temperament is. Some of that you can figure out on your own. There's five different temperaments. You have sanguine. These are some crazy big words, but I I love this so much. It's my heart. So absolutely. Okay, sanguine. Ship is nerding out right now. Yes, a little bit. Yes, just wait. Yes. Okay, say sanguines. The two characteristics for a sanguine is love and relationships. Love and relationships. Then you have melancholies. Melancholies, the two characteristics for melancholies are truth and order, supine, authenticity, and servanthood. You have phlegmatic, peace and balance.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Nefinally, no, I'm not that one.

SPEAKER_05 27:23

I feel it's as you said, like, well, let's and bits and pieces might photograph that last one might maybe have a little touch of that.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Oh, I think I've that that's the one that I could strike off the loop for me.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

This next one might be you. Choleric. That is respect and authority. That is those are leaders of those are leaders of leaders. Okay. You know, leaders of leaders.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

What about those who deflect weird situations with awkward humor? That's phlegmatics. No.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

That's you, Chip.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

That would be my husband. Yes. If we're gonna get emotionally deep, he's going to make a sarcastic comment and something that it's going to change. Chip just yes to that moment. I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

So would you say like based on those temperaments, that's kind of how you would distinguish or figure out what type of like I guess how you would approach counseling with them? Is that kind of why you do it? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

So the re if you look at all those characteristics, those are the characteristics of God. They are okay. Everyone that I listed, well, they all have each temperament has different needs. Yeah. So sanguines, I'm sanguine in inclusion, which is sanguine in inclusion means that I need all the people. Like I'm needy, believe it or not. Like I need to talk to you and I need to be needed. Okay. I have when we were with COVID and we were quarantined, the sanguines were not well. Gotcha. They need they needed their people. They need people. And it doesn't even have to be their people, just people. Just people in general. Just people to be fed, to have that energy, and God made them that way. Yeah. Those melancholies, people drain them. So the melancholies, those are the ones that are they're fine alone.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Like they're designed that. So their needs are different. Yeah. You have a sanguine and they're isolated, they are not well. They're not well. Yeah. If you have a sanguine that is acting like a melancholy, which is, you know, I don't really need people, I'm like to be by myself, then you see, okay, there's a problem. Yeah. You know, their needs are not being met in the same way. So that that's what's so interesting is to find the needs of the temperament and then be like, okay, how are we meeting these? Yeah. How are you getting them met? Because they need to be, and you can't depend on your partner to meet those needs or your best friend to meet those needs.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yeah, that's where you get into codependency in an unhealthy way. Right. Because we're looking for you to be my problem solver, my be all end all, and that just never ends well.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

No, it does not. They cannot be. Yeah. You know, we can't put that on other people. So, and you know, it's ultimately if we're designed with a purpose and we believe that that we were designed with a purpose, we were created in God's image, we're not broken.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

You know, so if we are in a place of isolation and loneliness, we're not broken. But there are some needs that aren't being met.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

That's a good thing for people to hear. You're not broken, you just have needs that haven't been met. And a lot of the, like you said, I guess a lot of the times they might be trying to meet those needs and without God. And then that's why you have yes, yeah. So let's say we have someone in our life that we're seeing, maybe we don't know their temperament, but we see that they're pulling back, we see that they're isolating themselves. What can we do for those people or those family members or friends that we see that are kind of taking a step back and pushing back?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

One, I would say not to be super pushy. Okay, but be present. That's good. Be present, not pushy. Yeah. So that's you know, sending the text. I've ran to Walmart and I've picked you up something, I'm gonna drop it by. Okay, yeah. Those kind of things. So you don't think with the pressure on the pressure.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

I'm just happening to drive by, I brought you coffee. Hope you have a great day. Yeah, okay. You don't have to random act of kindness. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And just being present. Yeah. Invite, but don't expect. Okay. That's good. You know?

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Yeah. So how do you deal with that when somebody feels the pressure from the invitation? You know what I mean? Because you know, they're there the idea is that if they're pulling back, you know, there are some, I guess, temperaments or maybe people in situations that can feel your invitations or even expectations as pressure. And it has the opposite effect because, you know, in transparency, that is Aston's aware. Often how I come across because I don't have, you know, I tell people, I may feel a four, but you're gonna hear an eight. Like that's you know how I how I talk. And so I think that that can be challenging sometimes. How do you keep them from feeling that pressure sense of expectation?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah, it's it's hard because yes, like you were saying, a melancholy is like, don't even want to be invited. It gives them stress to be invited. And then you have a supine that's like, I want to be invited, but I won't ever ask. Yeah, you know, and then yeah, my feelings are hurt because I wasn't invited. I have to be invited to show up. And then you have the sanguines that are like, I'm invited, they love me, I'm coming. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then there's a party.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

What?

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Yes, I'll be there. Yes, I'm there. But yes, if you're, you know, if someone is isolated and they're lonely, that doesn't mean they're depressed either. So you may see them backing off, maybe making you give a compliment and they don't accept it well, you know, no, that's not really it, or you know, some negative kind of you start hearing some negative feedback. Depression is a long, it's persistent. Okay. It's that feelings of worthlessness. It's when it really gets in the way of you living. Okay. Yeah. You know, your quality of life. It's clinical.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

That that's one of the things that we talked about in the last series is that everybody is going to feel depressive at some point, you know, in their life. Clinical depression is when that just stays around a lot longer than it should and begins to have those physical side effects. So yeah, I think that's good. And I think maybe the same thing for loneliness as well. Like everybody's gonna feel moments of loneliness, but when loneliness maybe gets dangerous is hey, it you're not just feeling it and a couple days later everything's better. It's like, man, you're digging that trend.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

It's hanging around. Right. And when it's hanging around, what happens? We want to talk physically again. Yeah. What happens when it's hanging around and you're feeling that way for a long time? You well, your brain is saying, I'm in pain.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

I'm in pain. And what happens when we're in pain is our nervous system kicks in and it's, oh, fight or flight. Well, fight or flight, when we're in fight or flight, it literally shuts down almost everything. Wow. So you start seeing digestive issues, you start seeing heart problems, you start seeing inflammation, my joints are hurting, things because if you stay in fight or flight for a lengthy period of time, it's damaging. Yeah. But that's that feeling of being in pain, it puts us there. Yeah. So fight or flight, that's where you, when someone's there, we don't want them to stay there for long. Your cortisol levels are high. It's just, it's not good. Yeah. There's long-term effects. Yeah. But we all do that because it's how we survive. Yeah. And if our body, if our brain says, hey, you're hurt, there's a lion chasing you. You know, there's a lion chasing you. Well, I don't need to be, my body needs to just kind of shut down and the adrenaline takes over. Yeah. And if a lion is not chasing us, then that adrenaline doesn't have anywhere to go. Yeah. So it it causes us problems.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

It is crazy. Yeah. So knowing that about ourselves is super helpful because our mind is super powerful.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

We can realize, okay, I'm not in pain. I do feel lonely. I do feel disconnected, but I there's not a lion chasing me. I need to take small steps. Yeah. And that's with our people. If we see them, they're isolated, they're lonely. Well, you know, if they're grieving the loss of a spouse, if they're empty nesting, you know, if they just lost their job, or, you know, if it's a student that's just graduated high school and now they're in college and they haven't made friends, you know, those are seasons. They're seasons of loneliness. So just being able to say, you know, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

You know, I see you. I would love for you to come to this small group. Yeah. You know, you don't have to. It's not, you know, I'm not going to be upset. Just saying those things and encouraging. There's a lot to be said about just being present and not doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah. And we talked about that even last week with grief. Yeah. Is that so I lost my mom when she was 50 years old, two weeks before our second son was born. It was, you know, a lot in a little bit of time. And I found out then, you know, and I was already a pastor for a few years, just the dumb things that people will say, but meaning well. They don't mean they're they're trying to help. But, you know, with grief, we said sometimes you just need to like shut up and sit down. Yes. You know, your presence can remind people that God's presence is there and they can't see it, but they can see you. Yes. So I do think there is a lot to that that people who want to help need to get their minds around is we don't need an epiphany from you. No. But it's nice if you're there.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Just be present.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

And some sometimes that's uncomfortable. You know, sometimes it's uncomfortable. We feel like yes. Yes. The phlegmatics, you know, it's awkward. It's emotional. Oh, I'm going to have to say something. Yeah. I'm going to have to do something. But telling ourselves and reminding ourselves that it's okay. Yeah. Quiet is okay. It's okay if I just sit.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah. So so let me maybe press into that, you know, Miriam. Where have you seen God use these seasons of loneliness in people's lives? Because that's something, you know, that we've talked about in the message is that in those seasons of loneliness, like you look, God did not make you to be alone. We are created for community, but that does not mean that God does not use seasons of loneliness for his purpose and for our good. So have you maybe seen that?

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yes, those those times of loneliness is when we we have to rely on him. Yeah. And that's a wonderful place to be, even in the hard times to know that we're not alone. Yeah. We're not alone ever. When we're in Christ, we're not alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

What if I told you our takeaway is you may feel lonely, but you're never alone. Yes. And there's a difference there. It is you can feel lonely, but you're not alone. But just because you recognize you're not alone isn't like you would say, it's not necessarily going to take away that loneliness magically. But that doesn't negate the truth that, hey, he's with you in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yes, he's with you and he's doing something. Yeah. You know, he's he's doing something and he's giving you an opportunity to learn, you know, learn about who you are, where you are, have some space. You know, there's good things that come with loneliness as well when we don't just stay there. Yeah. You know, when we're not digging those ditches. But yes, and just identifying with not being alone. I I don't know how to say that exactly, but God is with us. And if we can put ourselves in that mindset to know that he's with us and ask him to show us when we're lonely, it's amazing. He will.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

And that's one of the things I absolutely love when with talking with people in in really hard times, you know, when they are super isolated, super lonely, is to help lead them and teach them how to be still and how to let God love them. That's so good. Because he will. Yeah. And all he wants us to do is ask. Yeah. You know, he wants us to sit, be still, and allow him to love us.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Because his love for us is so hard for us to even fathom. Yeah. Because here, unconditional love doesn't really exist. Yeah. You know, even with parents and children, that's the closest thing. Yeah. But unconditional love, it does exist in Christ. And if we ask him to show us, he will. And that's those times when you're alone, those are precious moments.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, I think in the world we live in today, because we feel so lonely, we get scared of being alone. And yet, if you look at Jesus, he often retreated to places along with his father. And even if you look back in church history, we are not far removed from where silence and isolation were spiritual disciplines. As in, I don't want to live in this state, but it is important for me to go away by myself with nothing and nobody and no distractions and just sit in silence to be with the Lord for a while. You know, that was there was a book I read in college, and I'm having forgetting the title of it now, but it was written in the early 1900s talking about spiritual disciplines. And he talks about that as hey, these are spiritual disciplines, good for you to practice, you know, a couple times a year. Take a day, take two, go away from people, be just with Jesus. And I think we're so afraid of loneliness now that we get afraid of being alone. And like you said, sometimes that that is healthy. You know, I say it like this because I'm not a counselor. I say, you know, the good news, when you're on rock bottom, it's a lot easier to look up. Yep. You know, not not a lot of choices.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And no, I think what you said is so good about, yeah, just, you know, again, seasons of isolation, seasons of loneliness. But yeah, it's one of those two, I feel like, you know, I'm sure I've had those moments where I was like, all right, Lord, this is uncomfortable, but I'm gonna sit in the uncomfortableness and let you like show me that it takes spiritual maturity to be in that moment because if you are a new Christian, I'm sure that would seem daunting to be like, what? God's having me sit. What is that? You know, what does that mean? But I love how you said like that's where God's his his still small like his voice is you're gonna hear it clear when all the distractions are pushed away.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yeah, you are. Yeah, yeah. And and it can be beautiful. Yes, you know, but yes, new believers, or if you don't know the Lord, that does. It's like, what you want me to do what? Yeah, yeah, that would seem super friendly. Can you please like send me someone? Yeah. I will personal story I will never forget when I lost my mom as well. I was 32, my daughter was five, and we had moved back to Trenton. I grew up in Gainesville. So my husband grew up in Trenton, little country town. Everybody knows everybody, and he knew everyone. So when we moved back, I only knew my mom. Okay. And I spent all of my time with my parents, and my mom was my person. I didn't need anybody else. Like she was enough. And then we lost her. And I remember sitting on my front porch and crying out to God, like, I'm so lonely, and I don't, I just need you to bring somebody. And I remember me saying, Lord, just just if you're real and you really love me, just somebody's gonna pull in my driveway right now because I can't do this. Yeah. And believe it or not, they didn't. Yeah. Not right then. Sure. Yeah. But what happened was God opened doors for people, you know, through my mom's death. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh my goodness, my community is huge. And I look back and I can see all the small steps.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

You know, he was working, he was doing, he was right there on the porch with me, no doubt. Yeah. You know, heard everything that I asked. And I was never alone.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

You know, he was there. And, you know, through that hardest time of my life, you know, one of the most hardest, most difficult times of my life, he was there and he did not leave. Um, and it did open those doors to, well, my church, yeah, my pastor who, yeah, you know, years down the road's like, come on, come on, come on steps. Just say yes. Just say yes. It's gonna be really hard and people you're gonna be mean, but just say yes. You know, yeah. But yeah, those times in loneliness, we sometimes in the moment we can't see what God is doing. Yeah. But just hold on. Yeah. And that's that's my my advice. Just hold on because he's working. Yeah. You know, and you're not alone. And that just knowing that, and that's putting dirt in that ditch, you know, because the enemy wants you to think that you're always gonna feel that way, that you're always gonna be alone, that you do not belong, that you will never connect, that you don't have a purpose, that you don't have a there's nothing for you, that you're never gonna dig out, that's not God. You know, those words, those thoughts, those beliefs, and that's where the enemy gets in. And it is warfare. Yeah. You know, if and that's I would like to say, you know, if someone is listening and you are struggling with loneliness and you know the Lord, know that those thoughts that you're having, they're not from Him. They're real. Yeah. And they're intense because our enemy, he's a deceiver and he's really good at what he does, and he's very manipulative, but it's not, for God hath not given us a spirit of, you know, fear, anxiety, loneliness, depression. No, he gives us love and power and a sound mind. Yeah. That's what he wants for us, that's his promise for us. We just have to welcome it.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

You know, we have to welcome it and acknowledge that sometimes it takes work. Yeah. You know, not just, well, I'm going to say it and God's going to handle it. Yeah. But we have to do our part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Yeah. I think there's such a a fine line. And in my mind, it's not a fine line, but I guess it it feels that way sometimes is that, you know, you have to do the work and trust the Lord. You know, it's like you can't pray for a hole and lean on the shovel. You know what I mean? But there are some people, like one of the stories that kind of shaped me growing up is growing up in a church and hosting a Bible study at, you know, the house when I was growing up. And, you know, never gonna forget the night that, all right, Bible study's over, I'm leaving my room, go into the kitchen, find a snack. And I passed the four-year where another couple from the church is telling my mom that the only reason you have diabetes is because you don't have enough faith to stop taking insulin. You know, and it's like, no, no, that's not how it works, you know, like just because you believe enough doesn't make it happen. And yet, just because you're doing things to make it happen doesn't mean you don't believe. And doesn't mean that's not where your trust needs to be. And so I guess, you know, a lot of people's minds, you you can oftentimes even feel the guilt of, well, if I was a good Christian, then I wouldn't need to do this work. You know, I it would just be easier or whatever. And I it just breaks my heart when I see so many people like, well, if I was a better Christian or if Jesus loved me more, then this wouldn't be an issue. But that's just not the case.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

No, and God, He promises us that we're gonna have struggles. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna have struggles, we're gonna have hard times, but He doesn't leave us. Yeah, you know, He doesn't leave us, and that's with New Ways with the counseling center and starting it and walking through. We've had a lot of it's been a learning process, let me say, you know. And what God has taught me in it, and I love it, and I want all of you guys to walk in it too, because as Christians, he's like, Miriam, I'm creating the door, you walk through it. You don't create the doors. I do. Yeah. But we have to walk. I can't sit at the end of the hall. Yeah. No, he's gonna create the doors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

One of my favorite quotes is that the gospel is opposed to earning, not effort. Like, yes, you can't earn anything from Jesus. That doesn't mean you don't put in effort when it goes to following it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

We've got to walk through, you know, and that's in the season of loneliness. If, you know, our listeners are they're there, okay. Yeah, you're there right now, but you just have to walk. Yeah. You know, and that's that trust factor. That's the trust factor, trusting that God does have your best interests. He does, he is there. He's not leaving, you know, he's guiding, he is working, but you do have to take those steps. Yeah. You know, small steps. And that the the old saying, you know, how do you eat an elephant? One bite. You know, it's the same. We can't jump out there and just change things immediately. But it's how do we do that one step at a time? So if you're depressed, if you're isolated, if you're lonely, okay, shoot a text to a friend today, an old friend you haven't talked to in a while. Just a text. Yeah. Yeah. You know, run to Walmart and speak to the cashier.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah. Small things. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, be just being honest. I'm not sure that Walmart go to the Dollar General. You may you may be more depressed leaving Walmart. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

You know what? The the Dollar General on the way here, I stopped there. And she was so kind that I was like, yeah, go to the Dollar General.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Yes. I'm a DG guy, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

She said, Where are you going? Dressed so nice.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

And I was like, Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah. And if it was the if it was the one right here across from the church and you said the church, she was probably like, well, nobody who comes in here looks like that when they want.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

I was like, I'm not dressed up, like I'm in jeans, you know, but it was very kind of her. She's super sweet and made my day. Yeah. Absolutely made my day. So Dollar General taught to the cashier. There you go. Dean, baby. Yes. Yes. Dean. Love it.

SPEAKER_05 47:52

Well, Miriam, thank you so much for being here today. What a great conversation. If someone wanted to connect with you, wanted to check out your center. Is it the newwaycc.org? Is that how they would connect? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Even if they want to talk to one of our counselors, there's a way online that you can chat, leave a message with you know our center that you want to schedule a time. Right now, we'll say we do have a waiting list. Okay. We are praying and believing, and you guys pray and believe with us that at our gala, we are going to be able to bring enough finances in to give our counselors more hours so that we don't have a waiting list. Okay. That is our hope and our desire. We have the ability. We just don't have the financial ability. Gotcha. But so there is a waiting list. So please be patient, but we will get them in. Okay. And our our office staff will talk to them. You know, they can call, text. If they don't want to talk in person, they can just text. They will text back and forth with them, support and encourage them until we do get them in. That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Awesome. That's really good. That's that's a gifting, you know, from your office staff to be able to do that. Absolutely. Yes. Not just, you know, make appointments, but be able to carry some of that burden.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yes, pray with you. Yes. And and I will say we pray over our waiting list. I love that. So if you are on our waiting list, you are still being ministered too, because we are praying for your needs to be met. Yeah. Until we can get you in. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 49:08

You guys are doing some awesome things over there. I'm excited just to continue to hear the stories that are going to come out. And yeah, we'll be praying definitely for your gala that a way will be provided for just more counselors and just yeah, more ways for people to connect. And like you said, not remind them that they aren't alone. They may be in a season of onelessness, but they're never truly alone. Never alone and they're not broken. Yes. Not broken. So good. Well, again, Chip, Miriam, thanks so much for being here with us today. What a great conversation. And we just hope that this would also be a blessing to you. And we would say, yeah, if you know someone that is having feelings of loneliness, isolation, like Miriam said, send them a text. Just do a random act of kindness for them because you never know what that random act is going to do for their day. So awesome. Well, have a great week and we will see you guys next week. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Let's Talk About That. We hope it encouraged and challenged you as we continue to grow on this journey of faith and embrace community together. If you have more questions, thoughts, or feedback, we want to hear from you. Be sure to reach out to us through our social media or visit our website to stay connected. If you found today's discussion meaningful, don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review. Until next time, we hope that this episode inspired you and will keep Sunday's message at the front of your mind. See you next week.