Ep. 127 | Re-creation and Eternity | ft. Chip Parker and Eddie Blalock

In today's episode, Astin Kahnk is joined by Pastor Chip Parker and Pastor Eddie Blalock to wrap up the conversation on our sermon series titled "Storyline." Listen in as they discuss the  final message focused on Heaven and what we can expect eternity to look like. Let's dive in!

If you have any questions about this podcast, or about The Orchard Community Church, we would love to hear from you! Visit our website at theorchardcc.org and fill out our contact form, or send us a message on Facebook (@IAmTheOrchard) or Instagram (@theorchard.cc). Until next time!

Transcript

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Are we gonna have jobs? What does that look like? What does the you know rebuilding process look like of heaven? Before the fall, God had said tend and keep the garden, right? And I think sometimes we see work as an evil. And there's a lot of people that really enjoy work. It's just the things that come with it then that make it unheaven like here. I mean, it's those things I think that get in the way. What we're going to experience in heaven is not just sitting on clouds playing harps with our halos and wings. If heaven is what earth was intended to be, God created this earth for mankind to enjoy and for him to have communion and fellowship with here on earth. In the infinitude of God Himself, we will not reach the bottom of what he has to offer for us to discover and enjoy. Welcome to Let's Talk About That, the podcast where we deep dive into Sunday's message and explore your questions. I'm your host, Aston Kank, and I'm excited to share this journey with you. Whether you're a longtime member of The Orchard or a first-time visitor, Let's Talk About That is your space to explore, reflect, and connect. Join us as we navigate the intricacies of faith, spirituality, and daily life, seeking to understand how the wisdom shared on Sundays can be applied to our modern challenges. So, grab a cup of coffee, find a comfortable space, and let's dive in together. This is Let's Talk About That, where the conversation about Sunday's message never stops. Well, welcome back to Let's Talk About That. I am Sadie Across from two of my favorite people, Eddie and Chip. How's it going? I noticed you said Eddie first. That's fine. That's fine. I got you. He has, you know, seniors. Yeah. Yeah. OG. He's our he's our uh senior in the room. I gotta tell you though, Aspen, when we were talking about OG and their Eddie was the OG, I'm pretty sure Eddie thought OG meant old guy. Yeah, precisely. That's not what OG means. You know what OG means. Old guy, I thought. Original gangster. And he's just shaking his head and just like, okay. So that's what OG, that's what OG stands for. It's a lot cooler than old guy. I don't have a response to that, honestly. No comment. Well, I asked these guys to jump on the podcast with me today because yesterday All three podcast host. Yes. All three. That's true. Look at that. Wow. This is like a this is epic. This is a extra tier of podcasts. Oh wow. And and we have the the leading podcaster leading this discussion. So I didn't know you were leading the discussion. Oh no, no. Absolutely. I'm talking about Miss Eston. Yeah, she'll know about that. She's the head of the podcast network. Oh, nope, nope, no, we're not. All right. So we wrapped up our storyline sermon series on Sunday. And which, by the way, coolest bumper. 100%. I love that bumper. Yeah. Venom did a fantastic job. Yeah. And it was neat, uh, especially we in Lake City. We had the kids in Sunday and getting to see some of the kids. Like, because it's kind of like that comic book feel, which we we talked about that a little bit, you know, like coming out of scars on the soul. We didn't want something that again felt like super heavy or whatever. And that like, and they said, What about this? Yeah. Loved it. Okay. So it was great. So since you mentioned the kids in there, also, and I I don't know if this happened at all three locations, but I know in Lake City, boy, the notes and color and thing they had for the kids was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when the adults were doing it. Well, that was great. Definitely had a few ask me if they could take it. I was like, absolutely. You take it. I know that everybody, as in Brantford and Lavo and Lake City, had the kids in Sunday. A lot of Fifth Sundays will do that. We did that this week specifically in Lake City because that was something that, you know, Haley, kids' ministry intern, was interested in having a family worship Sunday. And it just happened that that was the day that Mary Beth was out on vacation with her family. So we did it. And so we put together like coloring sheets, note sheets. They were they were pretty funny. I did see one of the, which by the way, did not approve the corner of the paper that said draw a picture of the pastor. Oh, was that actually there? I thought I didn't know that was actually there. And I saw one uh which apparently I have really spiky pink hair. So there you go. Be honest. I just thought it was good. And and it made I thought about it because of the the not the bumper, but the graphic that was, of course, part of the bumper. The graphic was just just lent itself to that perfectly. I think so. And it it just it turned out it turned out really good. I liked it. And yeah, you know, but I I do think there is something to the whole storyline of the Bible. Like it is a story, it is yeah, you know, got a plot, you know, you can trace it all the way through. And so anyway, yeah, I enjoyed the series uh as a whole. It was it was a fun one. Yeah, it was really great. Adam did um with Thrive Me did a great job. We kind of gave him the idea and he ran with it, and so so so talented. But yeah, so we wrapped up the sermon series, and yesterday's sermon was on recreation and eternity. And I know for a lot of people, thinking about that can have a lot of mixed emotions. And I used to be one of those where you would maybe feel anxious because our minds cannot comprehend what that looks like. Eternity is just a really long time. Yeah. Right? We can't fathom that. Yeah. And so there is when you contemplate eternity, time without end, that does bring in some, you know, anxiety, weird feelings, you know, whatever, especially if you don't know what you're doing that whole time. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also some of the anxiousness comes from the fact that we're really not told a whole lot about what is what it's like. Yeah. We're not told a lot. We speculate, and then speculation leads to all kinds of wild ideas. And the wild ideas, I think, are what scares me some. Yeah. But uh Yeah, and there are, you know, there are a lot of different theories about you know what we'll be doing in heaven. Some of those are maybe less great theories, but they're still theories. I I will say, talking about, you know, the eternity and all that, there was uh a guy who came up to me and he he's he's funny. He he and I cut up a lot. Although I think he might have been half serious, but he comes up to me after the message, he goes, you know, I don't I don't know that I really like what you were talking about about you know eternity. And I was like, What do you mean? He goes, I mean, I was just really a big fan of getting to sleep and not wake up again. Just like just like getting to catch it up on your sleep. Well, that's because you have three kids right now, yeah. And so, you know, once you once you get out of that phase, maybe it won't be, but you know, I do think that there is a little bit of that. Well, isn't there just gonna be a time we can just like not, you know? And so I do get that, but I agree with Eddie. I think most of that probably just comes from misunderstanding of what we're talking about when we're talking about heaven and yeah, I definitely want to dive into that in a little bit, but I do have something I kind of want to talk about. So a lot of the times, you know, we'll hear this phrase when someone passes away that you know, so and so has gained their wings and this idea that when we pass away, we're an angel. Obviously, that's not correct. So I'd love to kind of talk about what is the difference between angels versus people who have put their faith in Jesus and then step into eternity. Yeah, well, since this relates very closely to one of Eddie's favorite movies, A Wonderful Life. I've never seen that movie. Neither have I. But every time Eddie's movie, every time a bell rings and an angel gets their wings, is that how that works? Well, um, actually, that's not one of my favorite movies. I thought that was one of your movies. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's just a tradition you have to do. It's just Christmas movie, right? Okay. But you know, no, yeah, the the wings thing, uh, you're right, Aston. That that bothers me a lot because there is a clear that's one thing the Bible is clear about. It's very clear about the difference between angels and humans, and that angels are not humans, and there's nowhere does it indicate that humans can become angels. Yeah, I think where that comes from is probably twofold. Number one, it comes from the idea that we know angels are in heaven with God and that people go to heaven to be with God. So I'm sure that's part of it. Another big part of it is, you know, a lot of Renaissance art really started depicting angels more as humans. You know, they but but when you read the description of angels in the Bible, they're not very much described as humans, you know. And when you're talking about, you know, well, they got their wings, I know in your mind you're thinking probably just two wings and nice little white ones on their back. But yeah, again, if we're reading the Bible, they probably get three pair, you know, on their feet and all of it. Well, the other thing too about angels is every time angels seem to appear, the first word behind their appearance is fear not. Fear not and get us. I mean, you know, the thought of everybody becoming angels is not this thought of sweet little fluffy things that we put on our Christmas trees, you know, where you're you're talking about very intimidating and even frightening beings. And in all reality, I think there are implications in scripture that angels actually have an admiration for men. Yes. I was gonna say the same thing. I think it is a disservice to people to say they become angels. Yeah. Um, again, not knocking the sentiment behind it. The sentiment we're saying is they have transitioned to heaven. That's the idea. Yeah. The theology, though, is off because we don't become angels and angels can't become men. Yeah. You know, what Eddie's referring to, I'm pretty sure, is that the scripture talks about angels long to look into the mystery of our salvation. Like they just they can't get their heads around what that is, because though angels are servants of God, the word angel means messenger of God. I mean, we're told very clearly in the New Testament that we are now sons and daughters of God. That's something an angel will never be. Yeah. And, you know, if you wanted to even get more nerdy uh about the situation, angels can never be sons and daughters of God because they are not gendered. You know? Yeah. Well, I think that's really good. And I I think, you know, just to save us a lot of hate mail or email, I will say at the orchard. I will say, I think the idea as you indicated, the the idea is that at death we are transformed into something very lovely and something very different than what we are. And and that is true. Yes. It's just that we don't become angels, and I'm pretty sure wings are not included in what yeah. That's what I love about the sentence that I used, kind of introducing the idea of heaven on Sunday and the idea specifically that when we talk about eternity, we're talking about a new heaven and a new earth. And so Pastor Sam Storms had a great summary of that. And the last sentence that I read with the church on Sunday, he said that let me find it. He said, the final destiny of redeemed mankind is in glorified physical bodies on a glorified physical earth. Now we spend a lot of time Sunday talking about that glorified physical earth, that new heaven and new earth. But though we don't become angels, we do receive in eternity glorified physical bodies. And so we are that's a good word, Eddie. We are transformed, we are just not transformed into angels. Yeah. No, I think that's really good. So let's talk about you know the new heaven and new earth. So obviously that is gonna Well, hold on, pause. Can I ask a question here? Sure. Just because, you know, I thought it was good. That was a great question about, you know, misconceptions about being, you know, angels in heaven. So I've taught like about this a lot, and we're gonna get into it like the new heaven, new earth thing. Yeah. And really the idea that heaven is what earth was meant to be. Well, when I was in Mayo working with students, and I love doing this students all over the place, just doing question answers. What questions do you have? Students really began to wrestle with that concept, and it led to some interesting questions from some thoughtful students. Okay. So I want to throw them at you guys and see what you may think about this. All right. So number one, if heaven is what earth was intended to be, a student asked me, Will there be technology in heaven? A really great question. Uh yeah, great question. And these are the ones that make me nervous because he's sitting up tall in his seat and adjusting himself. I mean, because of the fact that we did we don't know and it's only speculation, but you know, uh my thought is well, why not? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I you know what? I would even go a little bit further because I would say I think that we are told that there will be technology in heaven, but we have to be nerds about what we mean when we say technology. Because I know they're thinking like computers, phones, whatever. Technology is a lot simpler than that. First guy that made a wheel, that was technology. And so there will be gates in the city of the New Jerusalem, and there will be streets. Well, those hinges on those gates and the pavement on that street, that's technology. So it'll be technology. Well, I think too, with technology isn't Meghist answer. No, that's a safe answer. Well, I'm even thinking too, with technology, you know, a lot of us now will Google search answers. So it's like if we not to say we will have the answers, but it's like, well, we have to be like using a search engine in heaven for answers, or do you think, well, you know what? It's a great question. Yeah. I don't know. Like, well, whenever you mention technology, that's what comes to my mind. Cause let's be real, that's what I use 97% of the time is Google, Google searching, you know, my child's sickness symptoms or something. So that's the first thing that comes to my mind. Well, I have to say, I'm not sure there'll be AI in heaven. So I really hope not. Yeah. So here's the other one, though. This one may be a little simpler, but maybe not. I don't know. They said, okay, earth or heaven is what earth was supposed to be. Will there be meat in heaven? Maybe we eat food or just meat in general. See? All right. So that's the one. Well, that is I'm prepared to quote Matt Pennington on this one, but I will please do. What would Matt Pennington say? Matt Pennington said a clear yes. Yeah. So their idea, and I love that they were thinking through these, right? Because there's and that's what I really love about that idea that heaven is what earth was supposed to be, because it gives you a framework to begin to think deeply about this. And what they were thinking is, okay, there is no death in heaven. Meat comes from dead animals. So, but if we are going to enjoy heaven and have all these things that we were going to enjoy on earth in heaven, would meat be a part of that? You know, because there's no death. And but I think it's good that they're asking those questions too, because I feel like so many times people are afraid to ask questions. They're afraid to think. And to me, I know whenever I was younger, I did have a lot of anxiousness when it came around the thought of eternity. But the closer I've walked with Jesus, the more that anxiety and fear has gone away. And it makes me want to ask questions to think about those kind of things, like, hey, are we gonna have jobs? What does that look like? What does the you know rebuilding process look like of heaven? So yeah, I have lots of questions. Well, I think that's where, you know, when I mentioned this idea or the book, not this idea on Sunday, Heaven by Randy Alton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, he he started kind of opening my eyes to a lot of this. And he he has a book, not just Heaven, but he's primarily a fiction writer. He's written a lot of fiction. One of my actually one of my favorite books that he's written is a book called Safely Home that's about the persecuted church in China, and it's a fiction book. But he wrote a book called Deadline, and it's part of a series that is a fiction book about a guy who, spoiler, passes away, goes to heaven. But what I loved about that book is that a lot of his theology around heaven informs the fiction of that book. Like he tries to put that truth in this guy's learning about heaven in this book, and it's a lot easier to read because the dirty secret about the book Heaven is it's not an easy read. Okay, like it's it's a lot more like a textbook. It's yeah, it's much more academic really than and it's not easy reading. Not that it's that difficult to understand. It's not badly written or hard to understand, it's just like it's just technical. Like, you know, like uh talking earlier before we were recording, it's not the book you want to take to the beach. Yeah, you know, you're not like toes in the sand, you know, reading this because there's a textbook. Deadline's a lot easier to read because it's fiction, and you may get some things there that you you know would have gotten in heaven, the book heaven, but we're just jumping. But the thing that he opened my eyes to is that what we're going to experience in heaven is not just sitting on clouds playing harps with our halos and wings. If heaven is what earth was intended to be, God created this earth for mankind to enjoy and for him to have communion and fellowship with here on earth. And so when we think about, okay, God gave us this to enjoy, it reminds me of one of John Piper's quotes. John Piper says that we glorify God by enjoying him forever. And so this is one of my like weird, not straight biblical theories about heaven, but I think it is very informed by a lot of biblical implications and and a maybe we'd say more robust theology of heaven is that we serve a God who is a creative God who creates something out of nothing and does it because he is good. And as a good God, he makes these things for us to enjoy. And when we enjoy them properly, that rolls up into worship for him because we're not just enjoying the gift, we're enjoying the giver. Yeah. Right. And so I'm not sure that heaven, as a new heaven and new earth, heaven is what earth was supposed to be, will not be God just continually recreating this new earth and things on it for us to enjoy and to explore and to discover. And the reason that eternity, kind of bringing it full circle, is not scary or monotonous or boring, is because in the infinitude of God Himself, we will not reach the bottom of what he has to offer for us to discover and enjoy. Well, yeah. And you know, to that point, Aston was mentioning about working, you know, what do we have a job? Yeah, you know, uh again, just a guess, but why not? Yeah, I mean, we have to have to remember that work was given before, work was not a consequence of the fall. Work was given before the fall. Before the fall, God had said, tend and keep the garden, right? And I think sometimes we see work as an evil. I mean, we can't wait till Friday because of the weekend, and you know, work is not good and and work is the result of even I've even heard work is the result of the fall. No, that's not right. And and there's a lot of people that really enjoy work. It's just the the things that come with it then that make it unheaven like here. I mean, because we have the tension of, well, I don't make enough money to support my family, or I have to work overtime, or I don't have time. It's those things I think that get in the way. Well, I you know, man, that just sent my mind spinning because I had a conversation with a friend and we were talking about, and Eddie, I think you you might relate to this because you and I've talked since you've kind of stepped back from the lead pastor role and are kind of slowly stepping back a little bit more and a little bit more, but still staying incredibly busy. You say that part of that is because you know that you're just not gonna enjoy sitting around doing nothing. Exactly. Yeah, you just you just can't, you know, that we and what my friend was saying is there is a desire in us that we are not satisfied unless we are being productive. Like we want to be productive and have purpose. Yeah, and have purpose. And yet, I think part of the result of the fall is that we are required to produce. You know, we are required to produce so that we can eat the fruit that come from the ground. He says, you know, uh sweat of your brow, you're gonna produce this fruit, you know, it all these things that we have to produce to provide for our family, to to do this, to do that. So I'm not sure, and again, this is me being super nerdy. I'm not sure that heaven will not be the place where we finally get to separate being productive and the enjoyment that comes from that without the weight of having to produce. It's a good thought and a good way to look at it, I think, because I I do think there are a lot of things about work that are tiring, frustrating, etc. But it is, you're right, that need to produce and our motivation for working, which is to supply a living for our family for most people, right? Yeah, I think that's very interesting. I do feel that need to continue to be purposeful, and I can't see myself sitting around doing nothing. I am starting, however, to see myself playing a lot more golf. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, buddy. Well, you know, I I think even to to go back and kind of put maybe a finer point on that pr being productive versus having to produce. You know, I'm even thinking of the podcast, right? Like this is something that we all enjoy doing. We all have one that we're responsible for. Eddie has responsible for five weeks. You know, couldn't I do that? In fact, I left one to do this. I was trying to write one. Yeah. But, you know, I think the idea is is we we all do this because we enjoy it. We enjoy the productive side of it, getting to create these conversations that are helpful, but the the stress comes from having to produce because there's a deadline and we have to get this done. Yeah. You know, and so I think maybe that's a good illustration of how even in life today we get hints that. Being productive and having to produce are not the same thing, but they're so intertwined sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Yes, I think that is so spot on. In fact, I tell Beth all the time, I will tell her when people comment to me, and people are so kind and gracious to comment, and uh I get them often during the week, but especially on Sundays, and I tell her just when I'm about ready to say, you know what, that's this is it. I'm done. Yeah. Somebody gives me some kind of a testimony of how it's been in their life, and I'm like, okay, that's we can we keep going. Yeah, I think it's what you're saying. It's the pressure to produce, not the actual toil or task of building the podcast for devotion. Yeah. That's good, Jip. Yeah, okay. What about relationships in heaven? Like, obviously, marriage relationships, you're not married in heaven, but what do you think those like Can I be honest? Yeah, I don't like that. I tell Brandon all the time that it makes me really sad that we won't be married in heaven. It does. I mean, I'm just being hard. Hey, listen, I'm being totally transparent here. That's the part. I just, I don't know. But you know, maybe you've got a word for us, Chip. The look on his face. I wish we were on YouTube or something. You know, honestly, I struggle with this as well. Yeah. Because I mean, I think that there's some fairly convincing teaching in scripture that marriage is not a part of heaven. And yet, I do think that there are relationships that go beyond this life into the next. If for no other reason, then I think you get hints of that in scripture. Maybe we would not immediately to my mind not think of a romantic relationship, but think of David and the baby that he had with Bathsheba and the baby died. And yet David, after that period of mourning, says, I'm, you know, he's not gonna come back to be with me, but I'm gonna go be with him. You know, okay. And so there's an acknowledgement, I, his father, am going to go get to be with him, my son. Yeah, you know, and so those relationships I think maybe do endure. But I think that what makes the idea of marriage maybe really complicated for us is that we don't know what marriage looks like without sin. Yeah, I I totally I do agree with that, and I agree with what you said, and that's why I say I struggle with it because I the biblical teaching, I think you're right, it's pretty clear on on that. However, man, after 50 years of marriage, yeah, truly, you know, I'm not just saying this to score points. Truly, Beth is my best friend. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I can't imagine, I can't see how that exists. And and what you were saying about David and his son. I mean, which one of us does not look forward to seeing our father, our mother is gone on before us? And we I I can't, I don't know about you. I I can't help, I'm I have a hard time thinking that I will not recognize him as my father, yeah, you know, my earthly father. Yeah. Well, I don't know. It's a it's a one of those tricky ones. Well, let me kind of, you know, even double click on that. What I meant about we don't know what marriage is without sin is when I'm saying marriage, I'm talking about the institution of marriage, right? Not the relationships of marriage. So Adam and Eve in the garden were, you know, we would read in Jesus' words that they were one flesh, right? They were united by relationship. Would we go so far as to say that Adam and Eve were married? I I I mean, maybe, but what do we mean, right? You're thinking institutionally. Yeah. Yet Jesus is also clear in that same passage that the reason that God allowed for divorce is because of the hardness of men's heart, right? So what I mean is the institution of marriage has never been experienced apart from sin. And I would even argue that the institution of marriage is potentially given as a boundary, maybe a guardrail for our sin, right? It protects that relationship from our sinful desires. It gives us boundaries for that relationship to stay healthy and God honoring within the institution of marriage. And yet in heaven, that same relationship will not need those institutional boundaries to be without sin. Okay. You know, and I know that that is look, as muddy as muddy gets in thinking through something and you know, and what that looks like. And don't mishear me saying, Well, that's why I don't get married. We're married in God's eyes, you know. No, no, no, no. You don't get to say, I'm not going to take a lesser commitment in order to take a greater commitment. You can't take the greater commitment if you refuse to take the lesser one. And what I would say is the earthly institution of marriage is a lesser commitment than the union we see with someone in God's eyes, like maybe Adam and Eve before that. So what I'm saying is not that marriage, the institution is unimportant. I'm just saying in a world without sin, that lesser institution may be so unnecessary that it's not even, that's why it's not even an option for us then. Again, I know that's like super muddy and confusing. I'm talking about as I'm talking. No, no, no, I see where you're going with that. I see your train of thought there. And I think, you know, it's worthy to think about. And we're we're not going to change any of it. So I don't think it's earth-shattering. But Aston, we probably got you way off track. No, no, no, this is good. So kind of wanted to go back to, you know, obviously the new heaven and new earth is going to come when Jesus, you know, when he establishes that. So in the meantime, for those of us that have put our faith in Jesus and we pass away, we die, what is heaven going to look like before the new heaven and the new earth join? It'll look like heaven. No, I'm so like, what do you think we'll be doing? Do you think we're actually gonna be building the new heaven or excuse me, the new earth? So I sorry, I'm throwing, I got a lot of questions. I told you I got a lot of questions. Good. And I think the truth is that it is this, what Paul may refer to as the third heaven, you know, the heaven where we go to be with Jesus now before the new heaven in the earth. We may know less about that than we do in any part, right? Because there's just not a whole lot that we are given description of. The few things that we are really given descriptions of that are a post-resurrection, pre-eternity view of heaven comes primarily in the book of Revelation when we see the saints around the throne of God. I was thinking like the throne is under the altar. We see the marriage supper of the lamb, we see the judgment seat of Christ. So, you know, I think there are things that we will be doing, but I'm not sure how many of those we're doing right now. Gotcha. People, so I don't know. I think that that is just a big, probably like unknown. Whatever we're gonna say there is gonna be a lot of speculation. Yeah. But you think that's wise to say, yeah. I you know, but I I don't know that it's far different than worshiping God by enjoying him in heaven, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think I think you're right. I think that particular area would i is is open to more speculation than any because it is we do are we are told less about that. I thought uh your description of of the different, you didn't use this wording, but the different phases of heaven. You said it was a moving target. Yeah. Which I thought well it was an interesting concept. Yeah. I think probably that is worth people going back and listening to the record. For sure. Because I thought that was pretty good. But I I also realized as you were talking about that, that this phase we're talking about is probably the area that we know least about. Okay. And so uh Yeah, I would even argue that we probably know more about the Old Testament paradise than we do about heaven now. Yeah, we're just not told about it, right? I mean, you know, in all honesty, over I've I've thought about it over the years of ministry. I don't know that I have taught a whole lot about heaven. Talked a whole lot about more, more about other things, but then again, I find a little bit of refuge in the fact that Jesus didn't talk about heaven a lot. Well, I think that's the thing, right? Is that Jesus did not talk about heaven as much as we would assume. Yeah. In fact, he talked a lot more about hell than he did about heaven. Yeah, and he talked a lot more about money than he did either. Like it's just it's crazy, you know, but it is true. And so that's why I don't think there's a fear of talking about it, because you know, if you know me, I you know, I'm not afraid of being wrong. I'm wrong a few times an hour. It's fine. Um, but it's just what do you say? And I know Eddie feels this as well. Like when we stand up on Sunday mornings to teach God's word, at that point, if I'm conjecturing something, I want to let you know, hey, these are these are just what I'm thinking here. And honestly, I don't want that to be a primary source of the content that you're getting for you on a Sunday morning. And so when it comes to heaven, there's just very little that we can talk about that doesn't devolve into conjecture. Yeah. And I think the thing is, I think that is so true. And I've even had that thought with this conversation, you know, that much of what we're talking about is conjecture. And, you know, I I feel like that here's the thing though, we're human beings ourselves, and we have these same thoughts. We have these questions, and we're we speculate just like everybody else speculates. We just try to let people know when we're just speculating or this is my opinion versus thus saith the Lord, you know, and being very careful that what we say on a pulpit, uh in a pulpit or on a podcast as we're teaching, trying to distinguish, okay, we're clear about this because this is what God's word says. Now, I might have an opinion about things as a as a guy. I'm known to have an opinion or tension. Yeah, yeah. Once or twice. Sometimes I mean, we it's fun for us to speculate too. It is. It is, you know, and and I think that's okay to do. Like, I want people to be able to think, you know, like it's okay to have questions. Like we love when you guys have questions. And I feel like, you know, there are some times where we feel, you know, early on in my growing up in the church, I didn't feel like I could ask questions, but now it's like, no, I want to ask questions. I'm curious. I think that's a good thing. Yeah. And, you know, I think you encourage more questions when you get to the place where I don't know is an acceptable answer. Yeah. You know, yeah. But I feel sometimes, you know, the obligation to say, I don't know, but I think. You know what I mean? Because I I know that when people ask questions, they don't just want to hear me say, I got no idea. Yeah. Yeah. And so I will try and say, you know, but maybe here's a thought, but there's a difference between knowing and thinking on a lot of these things. And as long as we're clear on that, man, questions are fun. You know, that's and that's what I was hoping to do, even with that just that statement, heaven is what earth was intended to be. Yeah. I think that statement has the power to create a framework in our minds that lets us think about it. Absolutely. Yes. That lets us say, well, what about? You know, yeah. And I got hit up Sunday, you know, well, all right, if there's not going to be any darkness, any night in heaven, because God is going to be the light, but heaven is what Earth was supposed to be. What about the night sky? Like the moon and the stars. And so what is it? And I'm like, you know what? That's a great question. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think they're a part of the fall, you know. So I said, and so we're thinking about it, and and I'm saying, well, how about this? What is one of the primary functions of the moon to control our tides? But in heaven, there will be no sea. So maybe there's just not a need for it. Yeah. I don't know. There's no beach in heaven. You know, if my wife has anything to do with I'm just saying, I love the beach. To me, that is peace, that is tranquility. Yeah. I know Eddie likes the beach. I love the beach. Yeah, you guys can have it. I love my wife. Coming. Um, but you know, I think that that was one of those questions where I'm like, I don't know the answer to that. Okay, here's my best shot at something that might make sense, but at the end of the day, man, I'm not holding that as tightly as I'm holding what I'm wanting to get for lunch this afternoon. It's just, you know, I think that's just how you have to approach some of that. Yeah. So as we, you know, have kind of wrapped up this sermon series, is there anything that you guys thinking through the five different weeks that we had, you guys kind of wanted to double click or talk about a little bit in more in depth on the podcast. Because in a few weeks we had some guests on and it wasn't a normal podcast. Well, I think maybe the greatest tragedy of this series is that Eddie was not one of the guys who was preaching the shadows and sacrifice part of the Old Testament because everybody on staff knows he's a resident old testament expert. I well, I, you know, I confessed to you last week. I I don't like to confess openly, but I I did confess to Chip that I really wanted to preach that week. Because that week, I mean, that's just my love. And I really wanted to preach. But because I love my wife, I was at the beach. There you go. Yeah. Well, anything you want to add now, kind of about that? Because I to me, that was honestly, that was my favorite message in the season. Hands down, because that's one where there's so many times you're like, how can a good, you know, good God do this? And you're it's it's hard to look through the weeds to see Jesus in that. Because I mean, even for me sometimes, some of those books are really hard to read. But I would, yeah, love your take on that that part of the sermon series. Well, I mean, uh the you know, to cover it thoroughly, you can't do that in a 30-minute message. Yeah, particularly when we're trying to make certain points. Yeah. I think try staying on track, because after all, the miracle of that series is that you did that in five weeks. I mean, yeah, that's pretty incredible. I was thinking that yesterday, by the way, when I when you were preaching and I was reading along, and I'm thinking, okay, so here we are in Revelation, and the first message of this series, we were in Genesis 1. Yeah. Now we're in Revelation 21. Yeah. So basically and if you weren't there, we covered every verse in between. My verse. Yeah. So I think that I think that it was really well the way our guys covered it. I think to me, the big thing is I feel like seeing the importance of the Old Testament and understanding seeing Jesus in the Old Testament. I think that's so important. And I think it's eye-opening, I think it's exciting, I think it pulls it all together for us. And and I think so many people miss that. Yeah. You know, on my podcast, you know, as you may know, I'm going through have been going through Genesis. I actually just finished it up. And I've been trying to point out the gospel in Genesis as I'm walking through because I want people to see how even Genesis 1 through 11, which are very foundational and they have a purpose in talking about how this all began. And yet, even in the most fundamental parts of Genesis, you see Jesus, the gospel. Yeah. And I I now I don't I don't think I have a lot to add because I really think the guys did a really good job in covering it. And I just would have liked to have been a part of that. Yeah. But you know, it doesn't always work that way. Yeah, that's all right. Well, guys, that's all that I have. Anything lasting thoughts you guys wanted to add before we land this plane? I do have one. Okay. As we've talked about recreation and what heaven may be like, we can indeed say there probably will be recreation in the recreation. I knew that was coming. I could see it doing that. I didn't see that until you said it. Oh, listen, I saw it coming as you were talking just in. I knew where you were going or that. You can see Chip smile forming. Yeah, uh, you know, I don't know if they all know that little inside story, but Eddie was Eddie pointed out that in our graphic there was no hyphen in between re and creation, so it was recreation in a turn. Hey, I mean, I've been able to play a lot of pickleball in heaven. Recreation in the recreation. That's our next series. But you you might remember I did say I'm all right with that. So I'm okay with recreation there. I mean, yeah. Yeah. But I hate to get that in. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you guys so much for joining me today. And yeah, again, love all the wisdom and input you guys give us all the time. Thanks for the time and effort you put into all their sermons. But that's all we have for this week on Let's Talk About That. We'll catch you next week. Have a great week. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Let's Talk About That. 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