Ep. 129 | My Jesus | ft. Pastor Chip Parker

In today's episode, Astin Kahnk is joined by Pastor Chip Parker for a conversation about our "Louder Than Words" sermon series. Listen in as they discuss the power of testimony, and what it means to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

If you have any questions about this podcast, or about The Orchard Community Church, we would love to hear from you! Visit our website at theorchardcc.org and fill out our contact form, or send us a message on Facebook (@IAmTheOrchard) or Instagram (@theorchard.cc). Until next time!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

But we cannot have our testimonies exist apart from the objective truths of scripture, the objective facts of the resurrection, the objective historical name. Like you can't divorce it completely, right? But the strengths of testimony are you don't have to know all of those things to share your testimony. Yeah. You can say, man, I don't know the answers to all your questions. I don't know the quote, the scripture or verse for this or that. All I know is what Jesus did in my life. And you can stand on that. All you have to know is your testimony. Yeah. And it's simple. This is who I was before I met Jesus. Yeah. This is what happened when I met Jesus. Yeah. This is the change that's come since. Yeah. If you can talk about those three things, who were you before Jesus? Where did you meet Jesus? What it's been like since, that's your testimony.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

Welcome to Let's Talk About That, the podcast where we deep dive into Sunday's message and explore your questions. I'm your host, Aston Kank, and I'm excited to share this journey with you. Whether you're a longtime member of The Orchard or a first-time visitor, Let's Talk About That is your space to explore, reflect, and connect. Join us as we navigate the intricacies of faith, spirituality, and daily life, seeking to understand how the wisdom shared on Sundays can be applied to our modern challenges. So, grab a cup of coffee, find a comfortable space, and let's dive in together. This is Let's Talk About That, where the conversation about Sunday's message never stops. Well, welcome back to Let's Talk About That. Chip. How's it going?

SPEAKER_04 1:38

You know, at the moment, it's going pretty well. But in what three and a half hours?

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

We're gonna be driving down to kids camp. Yeah, I see that. And I can't promise at that point.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

You've had some sugar, you had some caffeine. Yeah. You ready to take on the week?

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Nope. No, I love kids camp. Kids camp is I I really do. I love kids camp. The kids camp that we go to, CenturyKid, is probably the best like big brand camp that's out there, in my opinion. Like they do a great job with it. And you know, every year I've gone at the orchard, we've had Leanne and I have had a kid going, whether it be your oldest or youngest. Yeah. And the one year that they would have overlapped, I think, was like COVID year or something like that. But there's been one of them every year. And this is our youngest Chasen's last year. Oh wow. But it's not gonna be my last year at camp because I I made the decision a while back that as a lead pastor that I'm just gonna keep going to kids' camp every year. Yeah. Because it gives me a chance to, you know, hang out with the kids from all locations. Like if your kid is going to kids' camp, you're probably pretty invested in the orchard, you know. And so it gives me a chance to hang out with them, yeah. Know them. I try to spend time with, you know, each kid a little bit at camp and then always, you know, take a little bit extra money down there to buy them a snow cone and ice cream, like, you know, while we're there. And uh so so that's fun. And I'm not doing student camp. They're not scared of me like the kids are too if I get loud. So, you know, but it just I like kids camping. It's fun. So I am looking forward to it, but it is a long week. Yeah. It is a long week. They're they're not the best beds. Yeah. And I'm not the best sleeper, but I am doing something this year. What are you doing? A pack to box fan.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Okay, so it's like no air conditioning, it's like camp. Oh no, no, no. That there's air conditioning.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

I just like to sleep in an igloo.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

And addressing the noise. Yep. Yep. I as a parent, I feel you on that level.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yeah. So anyway, it'll be it'll be good. It'll be good. How about you, Aston? Did you have a good you have a good weekend?

SPEAKER_05 3:39

I did. So, Chip, guess what I did for, or I guess, excuse me, let me rewind this. Guess what I watched for the first time? Yesterday and no, wait, Saturday night and last night.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

So if you hadn't said Saturday night, you just went with last night, I would have gone with for the first time you watched a UFC fight on the lawn of the White House.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

You did not. That is incorrect. That was I didn't either. Oh my gosh. We live in an alternate reality sometimes. No, so it's your obsession. Which one? Well, the one that you have the the light in your office. You mean the bat signal? Bat. I watched Batman for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Like, so Michael Keaton Batman, Val Kilmer, Batman, Ben Affleck, Batman, Christian Bale, Batman.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Whichever one that has Heath Ledger is a Joker.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

That's Christian Bale. That's Christian Bale. So you said Heath Ledger is the Joker. Did you watch all three? Okay, so did you watch just the second?

SPEAKER_05 4:35

So we I Friday night, Brandon was watching the second half of I think the third one.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Okay, with the guy who talks, you can't really understand him.

SPEAKER_05 4:43

Yeah, it has like the that guy, yeah. And so I was like, what is this? And he was like, just be quiet. Just watch it. He has the subtitles on because I ask questions.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Everybody always has subtitles on. If you're it like if you're over 30, you have to have subtitles on.

SPEAKER_05 4:57

And he didn't do subtitles until we started dating because I asked too many questions. And he's like, that way I can read it and I can hear you at the same time. So I was sitting down and I was watching, I was like, this is pretty good. And I was like, is what is this? Against Batman. I was like, oh, so do you have like, is this just the only one? And he looked at me and he's like, no, it is three.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

And so um It isn't a great trilogy.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

It's really okay. It is really good. And so he was like, I was like, oh, well, tomorrow night, let's watch the first one. He's like, okay. He's like, I just watched, you know, I guess I guess the third one was what the dark night rises, and the second one is okay. So he had would watch it. He had finished The Dark Knight. So I made him watch the first one. And I couldn't make it through the whole movie. So he'd rewatch it. I know I'm lame. And then so we watched The Dark Knight. Like, yeah, just the Dark Knight.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

So which did you like better? Batman Begins or The Dark Knight?

SPEAKER_05 5:42

I don't I think maybe Batman, you said Batman Begins. Yeah. And maybe that one. I don't see. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

See, the second one, Heath Ledger is a joker. The second movie's elite. Dark Knight is elite. It's great. However, Batman Begins is phenomenal too. As a matter of fact, I have one of my favorite ever sermon illustrations that I pull out of Batman.

SPEAKER_06 6:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

All right. So having seen the movie, Aston, you'll get this. Okay. The bad guy to the movie is who's the bad guy? Rez Al Ghul, Raz Alghul. Right? Yeah. And he is getting ready to get ready to poison Gotham's water supply.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Yes. Yes. Yeah. And he has that little like thing that's that takes all the water out. The vaporizes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

And so they're taking the train right to the center of the water tower, right? And he and Batman are fighting. Right. Batman gets him down, has like his little sharp metal battering, you know, in his hands. He's about to punch him and kill him, and he's to and then he stops and he doesn't do it. And then Rachel Gould says, you remember what he says? He said, That's why you can't beat me because you won't kill me.

SPEAKER_07 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Right? You remember what Batman says at that point? I don't I only want someone.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Chip, I can't quote movies like you can't.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

It's fine. It's fine. Batman says, just because I won't kill you doesn't mean I can't. Doesn't mean I shouldn't have to save you either. Okay. You remember? And then he jumps off the train because he sees that the train is heading off the rails and is going to crash.

SPEAKER_07 7:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

And so Rachel Ghoul goes off the tracks, dies, whatever. So here's what here's my sermon illustration, right? God doesn't send anybody to hell. It is of our own free volition that we get on the train headed to our eternal destruction, right? Like it is our choices, our actions, our rebellion against God. And when people go to hell, it's not because God sends them there. No, you're not good enough. You have to go to hell now. Yeah. No, we are all by default headed that way. And yet, because of his grace and mercy, he saves those who will trust in him. Wow. And so just because I won't kill you doesn't mean I have to save you either. You know, that that kind of sparked something in my head. I was like, well, that's kind of what it is. Is God doesn't have to send us to hell. We're already headed on our own. Yeah. But by his grace, he does save some.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Wow. That was that was really cool to go from dark night to that. Yeah. Or not dark night, excuse me, Batman.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Because I let it slide, but I'm glad you corrected yourself. It does me better now.

SPEAKER_05 8:13

Well, let's keep on that train talking about hey, talk train, talking about Jesus. So yesterday we were week two of our sermon series, and you were over in Live Oak and Austin was in Lake City. I was.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

I was. How was that? You know, I enjoy going to the other locations, get to catch up, see people that we hadn't seen. You know, I think one of the things that I wish more people had the opportunity to do is just like go to different locations and just be reminded of how much bigger the orchard is than any of us see on a Sunday morning. Yeah. Right? Because most people on a random Sunday morning, all you're gonna see is your service that you attend, and yet your location is bigger than the service you attend. For sure. But the orchard is bigger than your location. Yeah. You know, and so just kind of compounds. So I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. I heard Austin was only mildly heretical here in Lake City. I'm just kidding. I heard Austin did a great job here in Lake City. And you know, it's not often that two of our four teaching pastors are out, but it happens sometimes, right? And so Eddie was in the Bahamas, Matt was at the beach with the family, and so we asked Austin to step up in Lake City and and he did. And then the band stepped up in Lake City, so they didn't lead because Austin would probably be dead trying to leave three services, they preach three services. So, but no, it was it was good, it was good. And I had somebody who really never says anything about our sermon series go, I really like this sermon series. It's a good one. I was like, Really? And they were like, Yeah, no, it's a good one. I was like, why? Why why is it what do you think is good when they go, I I don't know. I like music and hearing about these songs is interesting.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Yeah. So I think it's a good reminder too that you know, the songs that we sing on Sunday aren't just songs. I mean, you know, a good majority of them, as we're seeing, are true testimonies of what has happened in a person's life. And again, like we talked about yesterday, you know, our testimony is a part is an act of worship. So I think it's just a good reminder that these artists don't just write these songs, they write them, they write them from decl, you know, proclamations from their heart.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Yeah, and it's you know, I think that's why I liked digging into the story behind My Jesus, yeah, is because when you hear it, it's kind of upbeat, celebratory. You know, I said it like this in Live Oak, it's got a little bit of that Taylor County honky tonk, you know, vibe in it, but you wouldn't realize just listening to it that it was born out of tragedy. Yeah. Is kind of where the the origin of that song was. And I think when you understand that it came from, at least began with Ann Wilson losing her brother in an accident and then going into a period of healing and journaling and grieving, and you understand that's where it came from, it doesn't make it less, it makes it more.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

You know, because when you hear, hey, he can do for you what he's done for me, yeah, let me tell you about my Jesus, let my Jesus change your life. You know, it became a testimony that she used. And so I thought that was I thought that was really good and kind of added a layer to that song. And again, we're not preaching, quote unquote, on these songs and exegeting the text of the songs, but we are saying, look, this is not just true in the song, this is a scriptural principle. And then we went to John 9 and saw, you know, the testimony of the man born blind, which is just it's an incredible story in the text anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:31

Well, I think what I love about that song My Jesus is, you know, it's and from personal experience as well, it's just a beautiful display that like joy and grief can coexist, that you can write an upbeat song about the expectation of like who Jesus is and the expectation of heaven, all while still grieving at the same time. Like they're made to coexist because of Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

Yeah, I think that's spot on. Yeah. When you look at the story there in John chapter nine, I think there's something that I talked about in the text that that kind of goes maybe unnoticed, but goes right to what you're talking about a little bit. So, you know, if you're in John chapter nine and you're reading it, if you weren't there on Sunday, it's an incredible story of this man who was blind from birth, Jesus, his disciples, they come across him. And when they see him, the disciples go, Rabbi, who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind? So, right, and we talked about this. There's that assumption that every bad thing in our life is because God's mad at us or got something we did something, you know. Yes, sometimes we make stupid decisions and we have to live with the consequences of them, but by and large, we live in a world broken by sin. Yeah. And so Jesus says, Neither this man nor his parents sinned, right? Not that they never sinned, but that, hey, that's not what caused this blindness. And then it said, then Jesus says, This came about so that God's works might be displayed in him, period. We must do the works of him who sent me while it is day, period. Night is coming when no man can work, period. Right? So here's something I think we can miss. And I want to go on record to say this interpretation of the text does not change the meaning of the text, the point of the story, anything. But I do do think it kind of shades it in a different light that helps us understand some of what you're talking about about how we can have joy and grief together, right? So when you look at this, number one, the New Testament was not written in English, it was written in Greek. And it wasn't written like English in the sense that their sentence structure is different. They did not have punctuation. Okay. Right? And so all the words kind of ran together. So those two things are important to know because when we read that sentence, this came about so that God's work might be displayed in him. Period. That period is not in the original text, it's not in the earliest manuscripts. Okay. So we are assuming that was the end of the sentence, and there are scholars who have good reasons to think it was, but that's not in the original text. Okay. What is also not in the original text literally is the phrase this came about. Okay. Now again, there are reasons that the translators put that phrase in there. The main reason is that because the syntax of Greek sentences is so different from English, sometimes you have to put some filler words in there to make it flow, to make it make sense, to make it sound right. And so they put that phrase, this came about so that God's work might be displayed in him, because the first words in the Greek in that sentence are so that, right? So that God's work. But the reason I point that out is when you take that out and take out the period that both were not in the original text, you can read this passage so that God's works might be displayed in him. We must do the works of him who sent me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. And so the idea there is that instead of saying, Hey, the reason he was born blind is so that I can perform this miracle in front of you. When you take away the this came about and the period, what you get when you read it literally is maybe Jesus didn't tell them why this happened. What he just said is so that God's work can be displayed in him, we must do the works of him who sent me. So let's get busy.

SPEAKER_07 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Right. So let's do this. Yeah. And I think that again, that doesn't drastically change the meaning of the text or anything, but it is important because sometimes when things happen in our lives, we get so hung up on the why that when we find them, they're not satisfying to us. They don't do what we want them to do, right? And so, for instance, if we were to say, neither this man nor his parents sinned, but the why behind him being more blind is so that God's work might be displayed in him. Maybe we pause and say, maybe this guy would have rather just not been born blind. He would rather just be able to see from birth. Now, again, that doesn't really matter because at the end, what we want is always not what's best anyway. God is sovereign. So again, what I'm saying is that there's no way that Jesus is saying this is the reason. What I'm saying is there is a way to read the text literally where Jesus doesn't bother to give a reason. And I think that's important because sometimes the why doesn't matter as much as we think it does. Yeah. Oh, for sure. The why is just not that big a deal. Yeah. Right. The big deal is Jesus saying, here's what I'm gonna do about it. Yeah. And the here's what I am gonna do about it. So instead of the why or the how, why did this happen? How is this working together for in God's plan? Understanding the what am I gonna do with what I'm facing and what is God doing in me. Yeah. And then the who, who is the one behind all this and control of all this? I think those answers are far more important than why and how.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Yeah. Because like in life, I mean, you're not guaranteed to even have a why this side of heaven. Like you may have it, I mean, this side of the earth, like you may not get that answer at all. So it's like you have to hold on to that. What is he doing and who is doing it?

SPEAKER_04 17:18

That's right. That's right. And I think that that's I think that's super important. So when I look at that, you know, that was a big deal for me, you know, because having walked through loss when people say, Oh, God has a plan. God has a purpose. Yeah. I I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you. Yeah, like I'm I'm so glad that that's true. It's just not doing for me what you think it's doing right now. Yeah. And about the 15th time you hear that, you're like, Would you like to come in my office and look at the degrees hanging on my wall? I know full well what you're saying. It's just not doing what you think it's doing.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

Yeah, yeah. No, I feel you on that. All right. So you kind of talked about, you know, obviously when those situations happen, not to focus on the why we know the who, but also kind of wanted to lean in to what you asked earlier. The what do we do with that? So when we have a situation, we have we see God work, what do we do with it?

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah, I I think, and then this was really the heart of the message someday, the heart of my Jesus. And man, the the Miss Abby testimony, oh my god, Sister Abby. That was so good.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

I uh, you know, I've seen that. I watched that video in communicators, and then I watched it three times on Sunday, and every time I watched it, I felt like it hit my heart that much deeper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Oh my gosh. So good. And the point of it is that our struggles, our hurts, the tragedies we face in life, we can choose to use those for testimony. Yeah. Right. What we do with it is we turn them to testimony. Absolutely. That's what we do. Yeah. And I think that's exactly what you see the man born blind do, right? Yeah. It is as soon as he's healed. And we can jump back in the text, honestly. Like as soon as he's healed, said his neighbors came seeing him. Isn't this the one who used to sit begging? Some said he's the one. Others say no, but he looks like him. So number one, I think that's a hilarious punt. Yeah. No, he looks like the blind. Anyway, yeah, I thought that I don't know that's intended, but I thought it was funny. And said, so they asked him, How are your eyes open? He answered, the man called Jesus, made mud, spread it on my eyes, told me go to Sloan and wash. So I went and washed and I received my sight. So number one, when we give testimony, the testimony of Sister Abby of Ann Wilson, it can be that much deeper because we know my Jesus. Yeah. Like we know the Jesus who, you know, has risen from the grave, who has died for our sins. We know what the scriptures say about him. We know all this about him. This guy didn't. This guy was like, I some guy named Jesus, yeah, came around. But yet that was his testimony. I don't know. This guy named Jesus. Matter of fact, they said, Where is he? The guy says, I don't know. I don't know. In my mind's eye, you know, I'm thinking about this. And they said, Well, where did he go? Where is he at? And he goes, Brother, I was blind. I didn't see which way he went, you know, like I don't know where he's at. And then they they take him to the Pharisees, and the Pharisees put him on trial and they ask him. They bring his parents in, they ask him again. And finally, this guy said, I've already told you everything I know. One thing I know, I was blind, now I see. Period. I was blind, now I see. That's my story. That's my testimony. And there was a quote that I think it was Austin who found it for us for the message this week from Pastor Brian Bell. It said, You may not be an authority on theology, but you are the world's greatest authority on what happened to you. So good. Right. That's so spot on when it comes to the testimony. Like I I can't argue, I mean, I can argue theology with you. I can't argue your testimony. I can't argue your personal experience of what has happened to you. And so maybe let's lean in for a minute, talk about testimony. Because I think there's a good and a bad when it comes to testimony. Let's number one talk about the bad. Yeah. And when I say bad, maybe that's not the right word. Maybe weakness is the right word. There's a weakness to the testimony. And that is part of what Brian Bell says in his quote. We can argue theology, but you're the world's authority on what's happened to you. What that means is that your experience is entirely subjective. And so I can't tell you what you experience, what you you know, all of this. I can offer some objective insight into maybe why, but at the end of the day, it's totally subjective to you. Yeah. And that is good in some sense because we all have a personal experience with Jesus where he frees us from sin, he changes us, he changes from the inside out. However, even a Muslim or a Buddhist can have a testimony. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like they can tell you about their experience and what it's done for them. And so I think that's the weakness there is that while you are an authority on your testimony, your testimony is not authoritative. Does that make sense? Now, what was authoritative about this man's testimony? In John 9, is it was not just subjective, it was very objective. I was blind, now I see. Yeah. Right. Something happened. And so when we taught, when we use our testimonies, our testimonies are a powerful tool in talking about Jesus, but we cannot have our testimonies exist apart from the objective truths of scripture, the objective facts of the resurrection, the objective historical nature. Like you can't divorce it completely, right? But the strengths of testimony are you don't have to know all of those things to share your testimony. Yeah. You can say, man, I don't know the answers to all your questions. I don't know the quote, the scripture or verse for this or that. All I know is what Jesus did in my life. And you can stand on that. I shared a story in Live Oak. Honestly, it was only in the first service because I was running out of time. Preacher got long-winded. But when I was in college, I came back home one weekend for the Florida Forest Festival. Do you know what the Florida Forest Festival is? I have no idea what that is. It is a yearly festival, takes place in Perry, Florida, the pine tree capital of the South. Okay. And it is, I'm not sure it still is. At one time in Guinness World Book of Records, it was the world's largest free fish fry. Okay. You fry fish, go up and get a plate. Free fish fry, right? Okay. So I went back up for it. It just so happened to be the opening weekend of muzzle oating season. And before I went to the festival, I was going to go hunt. So I'm sitting on a ground blind hunting, looking at an intersection of the road. I can see down one, see both ways on the other. And while I'm looking, and don't ever tell my dad, he doesn't listen to the podcast, so he won't hear this. I may have been nodding off a little bit in the stand, but when I look up and look over, I saw an ostrich. An ostrich? An ostrich in the road. Okay. Scared me to death. Couldn't get a shot off. Ostrich walked off the road.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Were you trying to look? Were you hunting ostriches? I was not. I was hunting deer. Okay, I'm a little confused there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

So was I. So was I. So I called my dad and I'm like, Dad, never gonna guess what I saw. I saw an ostrich in the road. He's like, you did not see an ostrich. I was like, 100% I saw an ostrich. And he was like, no, you were falling asleep and you think you saw an ostrich. And I was like, I wouldn't fall asleep at all. What are you talking about? I saw an ostrich. And so for like 10 years, this was a debate in the Parker family because I saw a dad gum ostrich. It was an ostrich. And I'll never forget it was like 10 plus years later. Dad calls me one day and says, Well, I need to tell you something. I'm like, okay, what's going on? So, well, I was talking to a guy who owns some land right there by our hunting lease. And one of the other guys that owned some land right there by our hunting lease back when you were in college, back a few years before that, had gotten really big into the emu market. And when the bottom fell out, he just turned them all loose in the wild. So you did not see an ostrich, but you probably saw an emu. And I was like, it was an ostrich, you know, but it was so you know, it was it was crazy. But here's kind of why I think that that can play into what we're talking about is that look, you may not be able to talk about the why or the how or whatever happened to you, but when you have your testimony, you don't have to know any of that. You just have to say, no, this is what happened. Yeah. This is this is what happened. And then as you grow in your faith, as you deepen in your walk with Jesus, years down the road, you may be able to unpack that a little bit better. You may start to learn the whys or the hows or whatever. But when the strength of your testimony is all you have to know is your testimony. Yeah. And it's simple. This is who I was before I met Jesus. Yeah. This is what happened when I met Jesus. Yeah. This is the change that's come since. Yeah. If you can talk about those three things, who were you before Jesus? Where did you meet Jesus? What it's been like since, that's your testimony. Yeah. That's what this guy did. Yeah. He said, I was blind. Yeah. He put mud on my eyes, told me to go wash. I washed, I can see.

SPEAKER_07 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

You know, and so I think while testimonies do have that weakness of being subjective and not entirely authoritative, the strength is that it's your story. And you don't have to know all the answers to all the questions. You just have to know your story and be able to talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

All right. So I kind of wanted to lean into the story, the aspect of the blind man. So, you know, he mentions that he, you know, spits in the ground, uses the mud, puts it on his eyes. What what do you think the significance in that is? Was there like some pagan practice where maybe they used to do that? And so kind of like, what is the, or is there any significance behind? Because you know, Jesus could just say, hey, you see and you see, but instead he did that. So I kind of want to lean into that.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

So a couple of things. Number one is when you look at the New Testament, I don't know of one time that Jesus did the same thing the same way. Right? Because he fed the 5,000, he fed the 4,000, he fed them differently. This isn't the only blind man that he gave sight, he did it differently. This is the only, you know, like he just did things differently. Yeah. Part of that I think is to teach us dependence on him. Like if Jesus did the same thing the same way, we would make it a formula and try to sell bestseller copies. Do you know what I mean? Like you wanna you wanna heal blind people in your church? Here's what you do you spit in the ground and make money. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's the first one. The second one is a hundred percent this was a pagan practice. Okay. Well, I say a hundred percent. Gotcha said that this was a pagan practice back in the day. And I don't think that means Jesus was participating in pagan practice. Yeah, I think Jesus was being very sarcastic and thumbing his nose at pagan practices because they thought the power was in the spit in the ground, make the mud, whatever. Yeah. And Jesus says, nope, uh it's in me. Yeah. Because I think if you kind of read between the lines of the story of the man born blind, that his parents seem to still be involved in his life, which was a little uncommon. Yeah. You know, a lot of times they'd be abandoned if they were born blind with birth defects and all. And so because of that, we can probably guess that his parents did everything they could to see if he could be healed. And that might have included taking him to some pagan practices that did the very same thing Jesus did. But when they did them and he wasn't healed, they were like, Oh, sorry, this this must not work for him. Yeah. You know, yeah. And I think when Jesus does this, it's him saying, It's not the practice, it's the person. Like it's not the how, it's the who. Yeah, you know, and I'm the one doing it. I can spit and make mud, rub it in your eyes, or I can tell you to open your eyes. Yeah. Like it doesn't matter because I'm the one who has the power. Yeah. And so I think both of those things probably play into it there. And I think that's also a good reason for us to make sure we're doing a good job of like, don't just read the scriptures, study the scriptures. There's just so much out there that can unpack a lot of this for you. That a simple Google search or a website or buy in just a couple one volume commentaries, it just helps, you know. And I think that that's uh unlocks some of that deeper stuff that we see in the scriptures.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

Yeah. All right. So thinking about that same story, I sit in on the Thursday online recorded message, and something Robert said that stuck out to me. He said that faith stops being borrowed and he becomes your Jesus when you have like those testimonies. So thinking about like, you know, maybe you've gone to church your entire life and then you have this just impactful moment with Jesus. I think that's that turning point for a lot of people when it goes from just religion to like a relationship when he becomes like that my he's your Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Yeah, I I think when I hear that, what it makes me remember is I heard somebody say when I became a pastor one time, an older person at church, and it's been true, as the pastor, you go from when you first come to a church to being the pastor, right? Gotcha, yeah. Uh to then being our pastor.

SPEAKER_07 29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

And then eventually, but often through tragedy or hard times or big life changes, you become my pastor. Yeah. You know, and you hear it in how people introduce you. Yeah. Hey, this is the pastor, right? This is our pastor, or hey, let me introduce you to Chip. This is my pastor. Yeah. And I've seen that. I've seen it when I pastored Mayo, I've seen it here at the orchard. And I think that same thing's almost true with Jesus, right? Because he's the great shepherd. He's he's the better pastor. And so he's the big man upstairs, the Lord. He's our savior. But when you've walked through him with him through things in life, it's it's my Jesus, you know. And that's what Ann Wilson talked about in the song. Hey, let me tell you about my Jesus. She'd written in her journal over and over, My Jesus. That's what Sister Abby said, you know, in that video. You know, it was her passion was praying about her Jesus. She didn't want to talk about all things that had happened to her. She's gonna talk about her Jesus. Yeah. And so I do think there's a hundred percent that personal, hey, this is a step beyond just something that I know cognitively, something that I bought into culturally. No, this is something that's now personal to me because this is my Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

Yeah. So what would you say to the person that maybe is in the middle of something tragic or maybe is on the outer skirts of it and sees those moments like Ann Wilson where it's my Jesus or Sister Abby? How do they go if they maybe are new to their faith or maybe don't know Jesus? How do they go from that moment of like heartbreak to like then like my Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Man, I would say that, and I'll just zero in, especially if they don't know Jesus before they go through the tragedy. Number one, anytime we go through any kind of real life change, whether good or bad, opens the door, I think, to have these faith conversations. But secondly, if you don't have that foundation before you experience something difficult, hard, and tragic, it's not easy to get that foundation at that point.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

And that's why I think it's so important that we have that foundation, that personal relationship early so that we have an anchor for our souls before the storm comes. You know, if you're out in the Gulf and you wait till you're in the middle of a storm and the raids are rolling to try to throw your anchor out, it may catch.

SPEAKER_07 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

But it's gonna be tough. Yeah. If you get that anchor stuck before the waves start coming and the storm blows in, then you're gonna hold, you know. And I think that that's why it's so hard. So honestly, I don't I don't really know what I would say to somebody who is going through that and doesn't have that foundation. You know, I think I might just try to show them Jesus more than coach them to Jesus. Love them and show them Jesus. And then on the back side, maybe come in and show some of that. But I think the biggest thing is that's why it's so important for us to live as informal missionaries right now. All it's talking about this right now, because we want those people in our life to get that foundation to get that anchor before the storm goes in.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

Yeah, I always think about, you know, on those mountaintop moments of life, it's easy to trust and obey God and follow him. But it's like you almost like need those mountaintop moments to anchor you in those valley moments when you're desperate and you have you don't know which way to turn. Because I know in my life, whenever I've had very, very hard situations, you know, people ask, How do you? And I'm like, It's Jesus. Because if it wasn't Jesus, I would not be able to handle the crushing moments of life. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they would be debilitating.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Well, I think I heard somebody say this, and it was a funeral director. And he's the first one who made me notice this. He said, if you watch, when you have a believing family and an openly unbelieving family, the way they grieve in the funeral process is is different. And what he had said is there was a family who was using our church for their funeral, who was an openly unbelieving, unchurched family. And he said, I'm gonna need to go back and get some more Kleenexes. And I was like, We we got a bunch. He goes, No, you don't have enough. He said, You have enough if this is a church family. And my goodness, he was right because they when you grow up in a Christian bubble, you don't see that.

SPEAKER_07 33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

But when you see that, you're like, Oh my goodness, yeah, we do have a hope that we don't even realize in the midst of this. We do have a foundation that we don't even realize in the midst of this. When you see somebody go through it who doesn't have it at all, yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, I get it. I get it. This is different. And so, yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_05 33:58

Yeah. Well, Chip, any uh lasting thoughts you want to leave us with before we close out our episode?

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Well, I don't know about lasting thoughts, but I guess it will be my last thought because I'm getting kicked off the podcast for a month, is what I hear.

SPEAKER_05 34:11

Yes, you are, yes. So in case you didn't know, mom cast. Well, let me let me backpedal this. So whenever we had our hundredth episode, we asked people, I think it was a hundredth episode, when we asked people what their favor yes, when they asked what their favorite episode was, unanimously.

SPEAKER_04 34:26

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're not gonna say unanimously. We're gonna say a large margin.

SPEAKER_05 34:31

I'd okay, a large, okay, a large margin. Sure, Chip. A large margin said that momcast episodes were the ones that they listened to the most. So you asked.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Well, that's because guys don't comment on posts, but whatever.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

Go ahead. Whatever. So you guys, I can't die. You don't love the moms. So momcast is taking over the month of July. So, listeners, this is where I need your help. I am currently orchestrating just different people from each location, Brandford, Live Oak, in Lake City, to be represented on the podcast. But where I need your help is we would love to hear from you about just topics that interest you. Do you love to hear these ladies talk about, whether it be about marriage, kids, if you're an empty nester, life, whatever it is we want to be able to have a conversation around those questions? So you can go to our website, you can click on podcast and scroll down to the bottom and submit your questions there. Or you can email your questions to info at theorchardcc.org. And yeah, we'll get those questions.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Is that because their question is asking for info or because you're gathering the info of the questions? Coming in. You said email to info at the orchard. Isn't it because their questions are asking for info and that's why they're emailing the info at the orchard, or that you are gathering the info of the questions?

SPEAKER_05 35:51

The info of the questions. Thank you for clarifying. My brain is not braining this morning. That's what it is. Chip is way more uh neurons are flying a lot more.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Well, as we're gonna report this on Friday.

SPEAKER_05 36:03

Yes. Well, thanks again, Chip, for joining us. Good luck at kids camp.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Yeah, I appreciate that. Yes, and Hunger Games salute for all of you who cannot see me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

Yes, and also listeners, if you can be praying for, we have a team down in the Bahamas this week, pray for them that God would just do a mighty work not only in their team, but also in the people of Grand Bahama Island as well as our kids' camp. Because I know God's gonna do a mighty work this week and we're excited to hear those stories. But that's all we got. Be excited for the momcast. Yes, that'll be good. All right, have a great week. We'll see you then. See ya. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Let's Talk About That. We hope it encouraged and challenged you as we continue to grow on this journey of faith and embrace community together. If you have more questions, thoughts, or feedback, we want to hear from you. Be sure to reach out to us through our social media or visit our website to stay connected. If you found today's discussion meaningful, don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review. Until next time, we hope that this episode inspired you and will keep Sunday's message at the front of your mind. See you next week.