SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Monogamous Marriage Podcast.
SPEAKER_00: We're Kate and Liam, married bisexuals a decade into our non-monogamous journey.
SPEAKER_05: We've been having sex with our friends for years, and we're still madly in love with each other.
SPEAKER_00: We're the authors of the Monogamous Marriage Blog, where we've been overthinking sex and love since 2016.
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is the place where we process our sexual adventures in real time.
SPEAKER_05: We are not experts, and nothing we say should be mistaken for professional advice.
SPEAKER_05: The show contains mature language and sexual content, so if you're under 18, it isn't for you.
SPEAKER_05: But if you're a fellow overthinker and you're not freaked out by unfiltered conversation, you're gonna feel right at home.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've been keeping score at home, but we are in the 14th year of our relationship.
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things we discovered along the way in terms of our sex life is that the three-hour sex date is a really great idea.
SPEAKER_00: It's not an idea we came up with, we heard it from someone else, but it's not really a solution in itself.
SPEAKER_00: It's a container within which certain activities can happen.
SPEAKER_00: So the commitment of the three-hour sex date is that you enter the room and you don't leave for three hours and you just do whatever you feel along the way, which was great at the beginning because we had a few ideas, but we've been kind of running out of ideas for a while now.
SPEAKER_06: When we first taught this at a PCAP event, we actually created a fantasy menu and we just brainstormed all the things that we could think of that you might do sexually to another person.
SPEAKER_06: And we handed that out and said, if you're feeling like your three hours is, you know, getting difficult to fill, go to the fantasy menu, pick something out, and say, hey, let's try this.
SPEAKER_06: I hadn't thought of it before.
SPEAKER_06: So what we recently did was remembered that we wrote this list and thought, hey, how about we take our own damn advice?
SPEAKER_00: So you came up with a format that you wanted to follow for this.
SPEAKER_00: So why don't you just explain that to our audience?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So I thought it would be interesting to kind of set a task for each other.
SPEAKER_06: So we printed out two copies of this fantasy menu, which we will link in our show notes.
SPEAKER_06: And we had an assignment.
SPEAKER_06: So as a good teacher, I like to give it in um groups of three.
SPEAKER_06: So you had to do three yeses, three no's, and three pleases.
SPEAKER_00: Please meaning.
SPEAKER_06: Well, I'll go through them.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So the yes is I would like to do more of, or we don't do enough of.
SPEAKER_00: But it's something we've tried.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So things we've done before, but we feel like we'd like to revisit or or do more of it.
SPEAKER_06: No is don't like.
SPEAKER_06: So it could be something we've tried and don't like, or something we just read and feel like, I never want to do that.
SPEAKER_06: I don't even need to try it.
SPEAKER_06: And please is something that you would like to try.
SPEAKER_06: Maybe we've even dabbled in it a little bit, but never really got too far into it.
SPEAKER_06: And so it's something that appeals to you that you would like to ask for for future three-hour sex dates.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So each of us had to come up with three of each.
SPEAKER_06: So we've got a list now of nine things each to go through, and that's how we're going to structure our podcast.
SPEAKER_00: And I also asked you to add a fourth category, which is H for honorable mention.
SPEAKER_00: So something that didn't make the top three list of things we'd like to try, but we're a little bit curious about.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So where would you like to start, Liam?
SPEAKER_00: I think we should start with the negatives and get them out of the way.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: That's a very optimistic view of life.
SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So you're really as submissive through and through is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, pretty much.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So what is your number one no?
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So I have fisting on there as a definite no.
SPEAKER_06: And of course, we have stories about so many of these things.
SPEAKER_06: So I recently fisted a woman, which was quite an interesting experience.
SPEAKER_06: Did I know about that?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you were there.
SPEAKER_00: I was there.
SPEAKER_06: Yes, we were at our friend's house for the weekend and they brought over a friend, and this woman was into it.
SPEAKER_06: She was asking for it.
SPEAKER_00: But I didn't watch it.
SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm a little unclear on it.
SPEAKER_06: Where were you?
SPEAKER_00: I think I was over on the massage table, just by myself, just chilling and relaxing.
SPEAKER_06: Well, that's how you miss stuff.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So so I knew it was a thing that she liked because I had been told in advance that she liked these things.
SPEAKER_00: Because this was a new person, right?
SPEAKER_00: Someone you didn't have actual experience with yourself.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: This is a friend of a friend.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And um I was curious because anytime I encounter something new and different, I'm always curious.
SPEAKER_06: So when we got back to the house, there was an opportunity for me to go down on her.
SPEAKER_06: And of course, I'm always in for that.
SPEAKER_06: So I was eating her pussy, and I, you know, I asked, Do you like fingers?
SPEAKER_06: She's like, Yes.
SPEAKER_06: So I put one, two, then three in.
SPEAKER_06: And she's like, more.
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, all right, I got I got four.
SPEAKER_06: I got even five if you want that much.
SPEAKER_06: So slowly with the lube.
SPEAKER_06: It didn't take all that much warm-up time.
SPEAKER_06: I was actually shocked by how quickly it happened.
SPEAKER_06: Um, I was able to get in first all four of my fingers, and then as I went further in, my, you know, the end of my thumb, and then my knuckles.
SPEAKER_06: And then sure enough, I am fully engulfed in the cavity of her vagina.
SPEAKER_00: To the wrist.
SPEAKER_06: To the wrist.
SPEAKER_06: And she was loving it.
SPEAKER_06: So that's great.
SPEAKER_06: But I was, I was like, whoa, this is a lot.
SPEAKER_06: Like it's you know, to look at it, my whole hand was gone.
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very different thing being a fister and a fist-e.
SPEAKER_00: So she loved being a fiste.
SPEAKER_00: How did you feel about being a fister?
SPEAKER_06: Well, as I said, it was weird.
SPEAKER_00: So weird can go in either direction.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: The whole time I was just like, uh, is this okay?
SPEAKER_06: Are you all right?
SPEAKER_06: Like I'm having flashbacks to delivering my children vaginally and just feeling like that was not a good time at all.
SPEAKER_06: And this feels a little too similar to that.
SPEAKER_06: And it was also like, it felt like a large space inside.
SPEAKER_06: And I was a little shocked by like the hollow room I was in.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I think a big part of it is when you talk about her not needing a lot of warm-up, is because it was her fantasy.
SPEAKER_00: So as soon as it starts, she is excited and going through all the physiological changes that excitement brings.
SPEAKER_00: So that spaciousness is probably her body preparing for something she really wants.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And she had done it before.
SPEAKER_06: So this was not a first time where she would feel nervous and clamp down or anything.
SPEAKER_06: She was she was just calm, relaxed, and wide open.
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00: But when you think about being the fist E, you have no enthusiasm whatsoever.
SPEAKER_06: Well, okay.
SPEAKER_06: See, now that I'm telling this story, I'm remembering another story.
SPEAKER_06: And there was a time when I was doing a little solo video just impromptu out at the pool.
SPEAKER_06: I was lying around in the afternoon on a floaty in the middle of the pool with my phone, as one does.
SPEAKER_06: And uh I was really horny and imagining that the kid in the upstairs window, the teenager who lived over there, might see me out there.
SPEAKER_00: And which would have been possible because that window, especially before we planted trees in the way, overlooked the pool.
SPEAKER_00: If the person was there at the right time, they would see exactly what you were doing, which was part of the excitement you're saying.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So at first I started just touching myself and then one finger, two fingers, three fingers.
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
SPEAKER_06: And eventually I did get four fingers in, and I got that kind of ravenous feeling like I want more.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Um just, you know, physiologically, it was difficult for me to Yeah, there are ergonomics to that fantasy when it's in self-play.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So I couldn't get the whole fist in there.
SPEAKER_06: I don't think I had that much, you know, enthusiasm for the whole fist.
SPEAKER_06: But anyway, but you know that you understand.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I get the that feeling of like I just want to be full.
SPEAKER_06: I just want more, more, more.
SPEAKER_06: So yeah, I mean, way to go her.
SPEAKER_06: But I do have to say that if I ever had any fantasies about being fisted myself, being the fister, I think turned me kind of off.
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_00: I thought it would demystify it for you.
SPEAKER_06: Well, all right.
SPEAKER_06: So let's bounce over to you.
SPEAKER_06: Give me a no on your list.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I have to make a little statement before I go into my no's, and that is almost every one of them is an enthusiasm shared by someone that we really love.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: And you know that saying don't yuck someone else's yum.
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's what I'm going to be doing here.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: There's a real danger of that.
SPEAKER_06: So if you're very sensitive to being yucked, you might want to stop listening right now.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And the thing that redeems it for me is that I love seeing people make their fantasies come true.
SPEAKER_00: And the more transgressive their fantasy, assuming that it's safe and consensual, the more excited I am on their behalf, even if it's not something that I would want.
SPEAKER_06: Yep, I get that.
SPEAKER_00: So having said that, I'm gonna say that my first no is wearing a cock cage.
SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06: So So tell me why you would not like that.
SPEAKER_00: Because the obvious, I guess, it sounds so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00: It keeps you from having an erection.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's part of the pleasure of it that now you don't have to have an erection because you can't, so you can let go of that anxiety that many men feel.
SPEAKER_00: So I can relate to that.
SPEAKER_06: That straining against the restraint feeling, like you're so big, you're just filling up the cage.
SPEAKER_00: We're just guessing because we don't know.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So so that is something that is basically a hard no for me.
SPEAKER_06: I would guess that for you, as someone who's talked so disparagingly about wearing a condom and having the little droopy nose at the end, there's an aesthetic element to your lack of desire for a cottage.
SPEAKER_00: There is that too.
SPEAKER_00: And I was holding back again in deference to friends who really like it.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe they like the look, or maybe they like that it doesn't look good, and that's part of the appeal.
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there is an aesthetic dimension as well.
SPEAKER_00: Also, for me, it's super important that you be turned on by any aspect of me.
SPEAKER_00: So it would be so different if you came to me drooling just slightly and saying, Oh, I'd love to see you in a cock cage.
SPEAKER_00: That would turn me on so much.
SPEAKER_00: That would change things a lot.
SPEAKER_00: So that's another dimension to this.
SPEAKER_00: I'm yes, dealing with what I believe to be my own authentic aspirations, but I'm also kind of predicting what you might think or how you might react to something.
SPEAKER_00: And that has the ability to tip the scales to one side or the other.
SPEAKER_06: Sure.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, so no fisting, no cock caging.
SPEAKER_06: Although I have to say, we had a sexy experience with a cock cage.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So with our um, we were filming a video, and our friend was sitting in the corner with a cock cage on while his wife and I were getting fucked by uh a friend of ours.
SPEAKER_06: And the whole time, you know, he was just kind of straining against his restraints.
SPEAKER_06: I think he was actually handcuffed as well.
SPEAKER_06: So he just had to watch.
SPEAKER_06: And and then we were really teasing him.
SPEAKER_06: Like we got right in front of him, we laid him on the ground, and this other man made us squirt on top of him while he was in the cock cage.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So there was a whole like teasing to the extreme element of it.
SPEAKER_06: And I found that sexy.
SPEAKER_06: Like I liked the powerful feeling of like it's kind of this like playful power game where I'm like, I'm trying to get you hard because I want to make you uncomfortable in that cage.
SPEAKER_06: So let's see all the things I can do to mess with you.
SPEAKER_00: So that thing that you admit you kind of liked in him, would any part of you want to see me in a cock cage?
SPEAKER_06: Only if you liked it.
SPEAKER_06: And that was the big difference maker.
SPEAKER_06: He did like it.
SPEAKER_06: It was his request.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: So knowing that that was his fantasy, I loved being able to help make it come true for him.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So we've given one no each, and it's taking quite a while.
SPEAKER_06: We need to walk through this faster.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, here's a quick one for me.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: No facials.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: I just I don't like cum.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And I don't want it on my face or in my mouth or in my eyes.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_06: I get that it's a thing that people sometimes like in porn, and I have done it a couple times for the sake of the video, but I don't like it.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And I don't know that it's something you enjoy.
SPEAKER_06: Like again, if you loved it, if you're like, please, baby, let me come on your face, I'd be here for it.
SPEAKER_06: But it's not something you like either, so I can just be honest and say, ew, icky.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have a friend who really likes come play.
SPEAKER_00: That's the way he describes it.
SPEAKER_00: And while I like the idea of coming, and I can like some visual aspects of it, but seeing it on your face or anyone else's face.
SPEAKER_06: Like rubbing it all around your belly and playing with the stickiness of it?
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not my zone.
SPEAKER_06: Elementary school, like playing with the white glue as it got more and more sticky, and you I don't like it.
SPEAKER_06: Oh.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, again, we're at that thing.
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you really liked it though, I would come right on your face.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, given that you don't, it's not an innate enthusiasm of mine either.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it makes me a little gaggy.
SPEAKER_06: All right, quick no for you.
SPEAKER_00: My quick no is electro play.
SPEAKER_00: So that's something you've done.
SPEAKER_00: I've seen people really enjoy it in a way that usually would make me say, hey, I want in on that too.
SPEAKER_00: But not with electroplay.
SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine enjoying it.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, this is different than the cock cage because if you said I'd be so turned on if I saw you getting electrocuted on a massage table and squirming and spasming and I wouldn't do it for you.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: Spasming would be at at a setting way too high.
SPEAKER_06: I meant low level.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it feels like kind of fuzzy, like you know, at most, like when you rub your feet on the carpet and shock someone.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: I never enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I get it.
SPEAKER_06: I get it.
SPEAKER_06: Like it's not a sexual turn-on for me either.
SPEAKER_06: And the first time I had it done, the guy went straight to my nipples and pussy, and I didn't like it at all.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: But our friends live in the sweet life, they really like the electro play.
SPEAKER_06: And I did have a nice time just in that it was kind of a an interesting sensation on my arm when he did it with me.
SPEAKER_06: Um, but I can't say it's sexually arousing.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: I did see a video though of a woman using an electric wand.
SPEAKER_06: On me.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_06: At our women's retreat.
SPEAKER_00: That was a turn-on because you were doing it as part of a demonstration.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm also thinking that there's an audience.
SPEAKER_00: So the part of me that not only is an exhibitionist, but likes seeing other people be exhibitionists, or maybe particularly my wife being an exhibitionist.
SPEAKER_00: That really turned me on.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know what I liked about that is that I was face down and blindfolded.
SPEAKER_06: So I didn't know where it was going to come next.
SPEAKER_06: And so it was a sensory play thing where kind of like impact play, you never know where it's gonna come next.
SPEAKER_06: And so all of your nerves are on edge.
SPEAKER_06: So it actually did work for me in that way.
SPEAKER_06: In the same way it would have if it was an ice cube or um like a metal chain or something being dropped on me.
SPEAKER_06: It's just that that same sense of like, ooh, where's it gonna come next?
SPEAKER_06: So the anticipation of it was nice.
SPEAKER_00: I realized too that another thing that turned me on about that was the woman was talking you through the experience, and she was being very supportive and encouraging and also a little presumptuous in terms of saying that she knew what you wanted and you're gonna like this.
SPEAKER_00: And so I did like that.
SPEAKER_00: So there was a performative aspect to it, and I generally don't like performative sex, but in that situation, it was part of what appealed to me.
SPEAKER_00: Watching it happen to you.
SPEAKER_00: But happening to me, I have zero interest.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: She was a professional Dom, so she was a little bossy, but I like that.
SPEAKER_00: I kind of liked it too.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, my last no is sounding.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So Is that also your last no?
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's vying for third place.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So but it's interesting that you picked up something that I guess I guess it could be done to a woman.
SPEAKER_00: You've got a urethra.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But you're talking about you don't want to see this done to a man.
SPEAKER_06: I don't want to do it.
SPEAKER_06: So I have done it to a man in the past.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Again, he loved it and really wanted me to do it to him.
SPEAKER_06: So I thought that would be enough to get me to a place of enjoyment because my my first reaction is, uh, and maybe for our audience we should explain that sounding is inserting medical grade metal rod down the urethra of a man's penis or up to urethra.
SPEAKER_00: Depends if he's purged or not.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: And it requires a lot of lube and rounded edges on this thing.
SPEAKER_06: So he was into it.
SPEAKER_06: I was like, oh God, I poof, I am skeptical.
SPEAKER_06: But again, I'm always up for new things.
SPEAKER_06: So I tried it, and the whole time I was like, are you sure this is okay?
SPEAKER_06: Do you really like this?
SPEAKER_06: So no doubt I took away any arousal he might have had because I was so concerned about it.
SPEAKER_00: I thought he really liked it though.
SPEAKER_00: My memory of it is that he really enjoyed what you were doing.
SPEAKER_00: And he in fact thought you did a good job.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And then once it's in there, you give it a little tap and you can like send the vibrations down.
SPEAKER_06: So I kind of get how that might be arousing.
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, anyone who's into medical play, they like the kind of scary medical devices and playing on the edge of fear and pain there.
SPEAKER_06: But it's not for me.
SPEAKER_06: I felt very I don't want to hurt people.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: That's that's a big through line for me.
SPEAKER_06: I don't want to hurt people.
SPEAKER_04: So the fisting thing, I really felt like, uh, are you are you sure this isn't hurting?
SPEAKER_06: So that takes away my my ability to have arousal.
SPEAKER_06: So I guess I'm not a sadist then.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's interesting that we are again confronting that being, in this case, the sounder or the sound e.
SPEAKER_00: So you were a sounder and didn't really want to do that anymore.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: You said that was tied for um third.
SPEAKER_06: What was your other third no?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so definitely sounding as the sound dm does not appeal to me even in iota.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I've never had any curiosity about what it might feel like to insert something into my urethra.
SPEAKER_06: How did you feel watching that happen?
SPEAKER_06: Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_00: I bet you I averted my eyes a lot.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: It was happening on the bed, but I had something going on with the female part of that couple that was a great night for me.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think I was really focused on her.
SPEAKER_00: I was aware that you were doing something, but it was easy for me not to watch, and I was happy not to be a spectator for that because empathetically, as a person with a penis, I would have felt too uncomfortable seeing what I would not want done done to someone else.
unknown: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So that was one of mine.
SPEAKER_00: The other one that was vying for it was cross-dressing.
SPEAKER_00: So I always used to say, I'm happy I'm not a cross dresser.
SPEAKER_00: So I remember when I was a student in Montreal, so in my early 20s, seeing a couple of men in those days wearing women's clothes and clearly loving it.
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, I get it.
SPEAKER_00: It excites you so much, not only to do this.
SPEAKER_00: Privately, but to do it publicly, it must be quite a thrill.
SPEAKER_00: I'm just glad it's not my thrill because I couldn't picture a female partner enjoying it.
SPEAKER_00: And that's always a big part of it.
SPEAKER_00: How is this thing that I want going to be received by the person whose opinion I care about the most?
SPEAKER_00: But we have now seen in our own lives people, good friends of ours, who enjoy some form of cross-dressing.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: We've got these two male friends who are into it.
SPEAKER_06: They like to wear occasional fish nets or lace underwear, especially if they're wearing them under their cloth their regular clothes.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And there's this little secret they've got, or this little extra rubbing they have happening that's like a fun little thrill for them.
SPEAKER_00: Wasn't there a friends episode where they discover that Joey is wearing women's panties under his jeans?
SPEAKER_06: It's possible.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I remember seeing that and realizing that the women were not hating it.
SPEAKER_00: So that is in the category of things where if you said to me, Liam, I don't know where this came from, but I'm suddenly obsessed with the idea of seeing you in a pair of women's panties, I could get into that one.
SPEAKER_00: It's not like electroplay where it'd be a hard no.
SPEAKER_00: I would probably very quickly come around.
SPEAKER_00: But I'm guessing that while you like seeing our friends explore something of a transgressive nature, it's not something you're yearning to see from me.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, this is definitely in the category of if you love it, I love it for you.
SPEAKER_06: But it's not something that I would get turned on by seeing you do.
SPEAKER_06: So, and I don't I mean, actually, I mean, I would like to wear men's boxer shorts, but I don't don't know that it would be a sexually arousing thing.
SPEAKER_06: It would just be comfy.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's try that.
SPEAKER_00: That'll be five minutes of our next three-hour sex date.
SPEAKER_00: Well, there you are.
SPEAKER_00: You're in the boxers.
SPEAKER_06: Speaking of five minutes, we need to move on.
SPEAKER_06: So let's do a quick summary.
SPEAKER_06: My nose are fisting, facials, and sounding.
SPEAKER_00: And your three no's are cock cage and electro play and cross dressing.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: So let's get off with the negative.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: Because that was the dangerous area where we're thinking that we might be yucking someone's yum.
SPEAKER_00: But now we're getting to the yeses, all right, positive side of the conversation.
SPEAKER_06: But before we get there, let's pause for this message.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_06: It's the best of both worlds.
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SPEAKER_06: Go to sapioturs.com s-a-p-i-o-t-o-r-s.com to find out more and to get on our mailing list.
SPEAKER_00: And now, back to the Monogamous Marriage Podcast.
SPEAKER_06: All right, we are back and we are going to move into the land of yeses and pleases.
SPEAKER_06: So for the next part of our assignment, we are going to talk about the yeses, things that we would like to do more of.
SPEAKER_00: Right, and these are things generally that we have tried.
SPEAKER_00: So things that maybe we haven't explored fully and we would like to get deeper into.
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: What's your first yes?
SPEAKER_06: So for me, it's dom sub power play.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: For us, this has been kind of a lifelong issue.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So I am naturally a sub, especially with men.
SPEAKER_06: And you?
SPEAKER_00: I am one of those people who rejects the whole dom-sub top-bottom dichotomy.
SPEAKER_00: I really like two.
SPEAKER_06: Can you just answer a question?
SPEAKER_00: I'm answering it as honestly as I can.
SPEAKER_00: I really like two equals meeting and figuring out what they want to do that feels good.
SPEAKER_06: But if this equal says, I want you to dominate me, are you capable of doing that?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's harder because it's a role to play, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: And I've struggled to do that.
SPEAKER_00: Everything in my nature wants to be consensual, fair, and not in charge.
SPEAKER_00: I was the boss for so many years at work.
SPEAKER_00: And you know how I managed?
SPEAKER_00: It was basically, hey, could you do me a favor and do that?
SPEAKER_00: Would you mind going over there and getting that thing for me?
SPEAKER_00: I'd really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00: That's how I ask for stuff.
SPEAKER_00: I have no command voice that I use.
SPEAKER_00: So bringing that into the bedroom is not natural for me.
SPEAKER_04: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So for a lot of years now, we've tried different ways to access this in a way that would feel comfortable for you.
SPEAKER_06: So we had a custom spanking bench made, and for a few years we were opening a lot of our play sessions with spanking.
SPEAKER_06: How'd you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00: I loved it because I found my own way to enjoy spanking.
SPEAKER_00: Spanking for me is a musical endeavor.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to create, as a musician, the best sound I can using my hand on your ass.
SPEAKER_00: So it's like being a percussionist, I guess.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So that explains why it's not a big part of our sex life anymore.
SPEAKER_06: Because that doesn't really like uh that doesn't have the power, like the embodiment of like the dominating, like hold me down and like I'm going to go harder and kind of No, I get that.
SPEAKER_06: You're just like, you're just trying to make pretty noises, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_06: But I'm pretty good at it though.
SPEAKER_06: Sure, but that's not really the spirit of the thing.
SPEAKER_00: No, I get it.
SPEAKER_00: Uh you're not getting that energy from me.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And um I've definitely been able to switch and be more dommy with you, which you enjoy.
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, we're we we haven't quite figured out how to get me the dom I want.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So, as usual, I'm super happy for you to find it wherever you want.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_00: I would love to be that person for you.
SPEAKER_00: It's just proven hard.
SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing wrong with what you're asking for.
SPEAKER_00: It just is something that's very difficult for me to channel from within my own personality.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: It and it doesn't have to be uh like humiliating or pain-inducing.
SPEAKER_06: It just has to be someone who takes charge.
SPEAKER_06: Like you are or have been the boss at work.
SPEAKER_06: So just take off the pleases and can you're and just go to whatever comes next in that phrase, right?
SPEAKER_06: Like just say lie down, like turn over.
SPEAKER_06: That's it.
SPEAKER_06: That's all I need.
SPEAKER_06: I just don't want the can you please in front of it.
SPEAKER_06: So I'm not asking all that much, but we still haven't quite I guess what I really want is to not think for a minute.
SPEAKER_06: Like I spend my whole life in charge of other people, whether that's as a mom or as a teacher or as a tour operator, I am in charge all the time.
SPEAKER_06: I'm making all the decisions, I'm overseeing all the things, I'm, you know, fielding questions here and there.
SPEAKER_06: And when I get to the bedroom, I want to turn it off.
SPEAKER_06: I want it to be quiet, and I don't want to have any questions asked of me.
SPEAKER_06: I don't want like to have to do the planning and organizing and setting up all the shit.
SPEAKER_06: I want someone else to do that job.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: A very legitimate aspiration.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, so so I'm just saying I still want that.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: How about you?
SPEAKER_06: What's your first yes?
SPEAKER_00: My first yes is the category is called humiliation cuck hold.
SPEAKER_00: And neither of those really capture what I like.
SPEAKER_00: So definitely the humiliation, no, I have no desire for you to humiliate me.
SPEAKER_00: And in terms of cuck holding, which humiliation often goes hand in hand with, it's hard to put into words what I like about it, but I have not had the full experience.
SPEAKER_00: The very first time it came up for us, we were with our original male threesome partner.
SPEAKER_00: And he was talking to you in a separate room.
SPEAKER_00: I was outside, so you two had been playing in that room, and you used the word cuckold, not in the modern sexual sense, but in the Shakespearean sense.
SPEAKER_00: You said, Liam wants me to cuckold him.
SPEAKER_00: And something inside of me just went pow.
SPEAKER_00: Like it just lit me up.
SPEAKER_00: Again, I didn't know it was a sexual subculture or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00: The root of humiliation is humility, and that catches more of what I like in that dynamic.
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, we could talk for a long time on this, we could do probably a whole episode on this.
SPEAKER_00: So, again, with me, it's very difficult because it's not what a lot of people think, but there is something on that pathway in that direction that really appeals to me and that I would like to explore more.
SPEAKER_06: So, is this something that can be explored in a three-hour sex date between the two of us, or does this require someone else to be there?
SPEAKER_00: This would be outside of the three-hour sex date.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: This would be something that we would explore.
SPEAKER_00: And we have friends who would be perfect for the role.
SPEAKER_06: So, me just talking about how I've had sex with other people or retelling you the details of a particular time when I was fucking someone else, that doesn't quite capture it for you.
SPEAKER_00: No, but that could catch a bit of what I'm looking for.
SPEAKER_00: So that's something that we could explore more too.
SPEAKER_06: What about watching my porn where I'm fucking someone else?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's also a good suggestion.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: See, I'm trying to actually take notes here.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So what is your next yes?
SPEAKER_00: Let's do more of that.
SPEAKER_06: So sensory play and sensory deprivation.
SPEAKER_06: So we've been doing this more often recently, and I really like it.
SPEAKER_06: So it's that not knowing what's coming thing.
SPEAKER_06: So for me, that's kind of a delicious uh moment of anticipation where I'm blindfolded and different sensations are coming at me on different parts of my body.
SPEAKER_06: Um, we did this recently when we did a cottage getaway with our friends.
SPEAKER_06: I was on a massage table, and they ran and got like cold water and were running these cold washcloths over me, and then feathers, and then hot breath, and um floggers, and all kinds of different things.
SPEAKER_06: And that was my request for the weekend.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And it was very sexy.
SPEAKER_06: That got me really turned on.
SPEAKER_06: And it's not for any particular sensation so much as the anticipation of what's going to come next and not knowing.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And that is something that we have done and that I can say a wholehearted yes to.
SPEAKER_00: That totally lines up with my interests, and I would be very happy to do more of that with you.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, good.
SPEAKER_00: I would find that very satisfying.
SPEAKER_06: All right, what's your next yes?
SPEAKER_00: My next yes is psychedelics.
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because, you know, we talked about drugs on an episode, and at the end of the episode, talked about my great experience with MDMA and also the fact that I was leaving it behind.
SPEAKER_00: But as people who have listened to our episodes since may have noticed, I didn't leave it behind.
SPEAKER_00: I circled back to it, and MDMA has been a great recurring theme in our relationship in all kinds of different contexts.
SPEAKER_00: But I don't believe that's the end of the line.
SPEAKER_00: And I have tried other things.
SPEAKER_00: I have not been able to have a great mushrooms experience.
SPEAKER_00: I've not been able to have a great cannabis experience at all.
SPEAKER_00: I have not been able to have a great LSD experience, although that was just one time, but it didn't seem promising.
SPEAKER_00: But I heard a stat the other day, someone saying that there are over 1,000 new psychoactive molecules that have been developed.
SPEAKER_04: Whoa.
SPEAKER_00: And they were talking about in the context of law enforcement not being able to keep up, like in terms of what's legal and what's not legal.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So that just gives me a window that there are other things out there.
SPEAKER_00: So there are things I'm scared of, like DMT, but DMT therapy, I have heard fascinating things about.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's not a sex drug for sure.
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: No, but I wonder if every drug would be a sex drug for me.
SPEAKER_00: If it had any positive effect, I think it would be a sex drug.
SPEAKER_00: Because some people take MDMA and all they think about is dancing.
SPEAKER_00: And all I think about is sex.
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, but it is something that I'm interested in exploring.
SPEAKER_00: And for me, exploring is a very cautious process.
SPEAKER_00: So I need to do a lot of research.
SPEAKER_00: I need to talk to people who've tried it.
SPEAKER_00: I need to consider what the absolute worst case scenario is so I can assess whether it's worth the risk at all.
SPEAKER_00: But psychedelics are definitely something that I'm interested in exploring more because it's been just with that one substance, MDMA, it has been a life-changing experience for me.
SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, psychedelics made my honorable mention list because of course we're gonna keep doing that.
SPEAKER_06: Like, duh.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: But what about when you hear that there are a thousand other substances out there?
SPEAKER_00: Are you curious?
SPEAKER_06: That's exciting.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, obviously, I want everybody else to do the field research before I try it.
SPEAKER_06: Sure.
SPEAKER_06: Because like you, I'm cautious with my brain.
SPEAKER_06: But I'm excited to try and even to revisit other things we've tried.
SPEAKER_06: Like, you know, we didn't really do acid in a very s sexy or like I don't know.
SPEAKER_06: I I don't think our set and setting was right when we did it.
SPEAKER_00: Not from lack of effort, because our hosts did a fantastic job of putting the day together and the environment.
SPEAKER_00: But I think everyone agreed at the end it wasn't optimal.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I was vaguely nauseous, which is not sexy.
SPEAKER_06: So but and same with mushrooms, like I feel like we haven't fully explored it different settings and different um ways to, you know, play with it.
SPEAKER_06: So I'd be down for more experimenting because just because MDMA has worked so well for us.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And it would be great if there were other things we could do that would give us not the same results, but kind of a similar um mind-expanding, heart-opening, shame-reducing kind of experience.
SPEAKER_00: And there are people who have unbelievable sexual experiences on mushrooms.
SPEAKER_00: So it may be that my brain is just not one of those brains that has the right receptors to make that possible, but I don't know that that's the case.
SPEAKER_00: And I am open to exploring safely a bit more in that direction.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, so my last yes is Yoni and Linga massage.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so that's a real room 77.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Richard and Lauren.
SPEAKER_06: Hey, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_06: Um, yeah, so we have had amazingly sensual, sexy experiences in those Yoni and Linga massage times with Richard and Lauren at Desire.
SPEAKER_06: And I feel like it would be fun to have just a really long period of just slowly, slowly, slowly like touching, exploring, moving our way toward the erotic, but like really long lead up.
SPEAKER_06: And honestly, like as penetrative sex gets more and more painful for me, that seems like a sexy, fun thing we could do together that wouldn't necessarily be painful.
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00: That's also something that links up very well with sensory play, because you can include blindfolds in extended yoni and lingam massage.
SPEAKER_00: We should say yoni and lingam.
SPEAKER_00: They're the Hindu Sanskrit words for penis and vagina.
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember which one is which.
SPEAKER_00: Do you?
SPEAKER_06: The yoni is the female.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: That's it for me.
SPEAKER_06: What have you got?
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Do you have another yes?
SPEAKER_00: Of course I do.
SPEAKER_00: And on the list, it's called butt plug or butt play.
SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06: Everybody loves some butt stuff.
SPEAKER_06: Do they?
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: That's my big insecurity.
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, it's partly what makes it so appealing because it's taboo.
SPEAKER_00: But it is one of those things where I love being the receiver and I love being the giver.
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like I just want it done to me.
SPEAKER_00: Your butt turns me on so much.
SPEAKER_04: Good.
unknown: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: I can see the excitement in your eyes.
SPEAKER_00: You can't see this in listening to the podcast, but this woman is lit up right now.
SPEAKER_00: But you don't hate it.
SPEAKER_06: No, no, no.
SPEAKER_06: I I love it.
SPEAKER_06: Like when you're fucking me from behind and you stick a thumb in my ass, that just puts me over the edge.
SPEAKER_06: It's great.
SPEAKER_06: And I I actually was thinking we should try a butt plug in there.
SPEAKER_06: So while you're fucking me, that way it'll be less restrictive, again, ergonomically.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it might be for you.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, to try it in in different positions.
SPEAKER_06: So when I'm face down and you're fucking me, it makes all the difference.
SPEAKER_06: Um so what if we tried it in other positions?
SPEAKER_06: So having a butt plug in would allow you to free up your thumb and try it in different ways.
SPEAKER_00: Free the thumb.
SPEAKER_06: Sorry.
SPEAKER_06: Would you be interested in a butt plug during play?
SPEAKER_06: Because you haven't actually wanted that before.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't not want it.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Because we've had lots of butt play with like fingers and even dildos, but but not the plug.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: So we should invest in a good wide phalanged butt plug.
SPEAKER_00: Well, in fact, we should invest in a butt plug collection of various sizes.
SPEAKER_06: We do have a collection.
SPEAKER_06: But I I was a little scared off by our friends who were having some butt plug play, and one got sucked up into him and they almost had to take him to the hospital.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And hence that can that can never happen.
SPEAKER_00: Hence the wide flange you mentioned.
SPEAKER_06: That's right.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So to sum up, yes, for me is I want more power play.
SPEAKER_06: Specifically, I want you to be more dominant and allow me to be more submissive.
SPEAKER_06: I want sensory play, and I want some Yoni Lingum massage.
SPEAKER_06: Let's keep all that stuff in the repertoire.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I'm looking for more cuckold play in that direction.
SPEAKER_00: Uh psychedelics, exploration, and butt play.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: You do get a lot of butt play.
SPEAKER_06: You want more butt play?
SPEAKER_06: Like we do butt play almost every time with you.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Well, and we do it with you too, as an accessory to sex.
SPEAKER_00: But I think there are other things that we can do.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe even in the role play direction, which was something on the list that I didn't tech off as a yes or no.
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
SPEAKER_00: By the way, I found this assignment very arousing.
SPEAKER_06: Well, it took you long enough to do it.
SPEAKER_06: Were you masturbating?
SPEAKER_00: No, I was just thinking deeply about all the alternatives.
SPEAKER_00: But it did get me thinking, which is, I guess, what this assignment is about, which is making things more interesting.
SPEAKER_00: And it's just a little like a writing prompt getting you to think in certain directions you might not have on your own.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: The last category is a pleas.
SPEAKER_00: So we did it by writing a P next to the words, but these are things that we haven't really done.
SPEAKER_00: Might have done a little bit, but haven't really done.
SPEAKER_00: We'd like to try for the first time.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So my first one might surprise you because we have made fun of it in the past.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Tantra?
SPEAKER_00: Tantra.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: So here's my thinking with that.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Again, as penetrative sex gets less appealing for me, more painful, I am more interested in different ways to connect sensually.
SPEAKER_06: And I'm also really leaning into my energeticness on the erotic blueprint, which I'm I used to think I had zero energetic.
SPEAKER_06: Now I'm realizing I actually have a lot of energetic in me.
SPEAKER_06: I've just never had someone I can, you know, play with it with.
SPEAKER_06: So I think tantra would be something that would allow us to connect sensually and emotionally and even sexually eventually.
SPEAKER_06: But it would also allow you to tap into your energetic side in a way that you haven't been able to before that could be very sexy and rewarding for both of us to see blossom in you.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: No, I'd be very enthusiastic about that, the way you've expressed it.
SPEAKER_00: I think what we suffer from a little bit is a narrow definition of what tantra is.
SPEAKER_00: So generally, we've gone to introductory tantra sessions and it's about eye gazing and things like that that may Make us giggle.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because we can't actually look into each other's eyes without feeling uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00: That might be part of it.
SPEAKER_00: I don't like to think that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_06: That's a problem we should overcome.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that might be part of it.
SPEAKER_00: You know what it is?
SPEAKER_00: This is it though.
SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing that made me laugh at the wine tasting in Avignon last year, which is seriousness.
SPEAKER_00: When people are treating this as so solemn and special, it just makes me naturally want to lampoon it.
SPEAKER_06: I get that.
SPEAKER_06: I feel the same way often.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's a lot of self-sanctimoniousness in the tantrum world, it seems to me.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So if we could find a nice, fun, relaxed way into it, there's probably a lot there because it hasn't survived for 5,000 years for no reason.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: What's your first please?
SPEAKER_00: My first please is golden showers.
SPEAKER_06: We have done that before.
SPEAKER_00: Have you and I done it though?
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: During a couple different three-hour sex dates, we were in the guest bathroom and I did it standing up, and then you lay down in the bathtub and I straddled you and did it over you.
SPEAKER_06: And then we were in our bathroom and we did it in the shower and also in the bathtub.
SPEAKER_06: And yeah, babe.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: We've done it.
SPEAKER_06: I've held your dick while you were peeing.
SPEAKER_06: Did you?
SPEAKER_06: So take it in the other direction.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I remember wanting that before, but I always thought I was too shy to ask for it.
SPEAKER_06: Well, these were all things that we did while on MDMA.
SPEAKER_06: Oh.
SPEAKER_06: When you were not trying to ask for things.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So And it's disappointing that you forgot all those things.
SPEAKER_06: You're looking at me still like you don't remember them.
SPEAKER_00: I know.
SPEAKER_06: Dementia?
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: My mind is working very well these days.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited.
unknown: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: But so that's something you'd like more of.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's kind of funny because now that we're talking about it, like I used to, I remember I went through a phase when I was more of a porn watcher in my 30s and 40s of having a little side taste for pee videos.
SPEAKER_00: But then I went away from it.
SPEAKER_00: And it's not like I have a great enthusiasm for it now, but it's one of those things where because it's so taboo, I think there's something out there that I can't even picture yet.
SPEAKER_00: So this category of the please items, like please, let's do more of this, for me is often based on not because I know there's something I want to do, and I'm just going to tell you what it is, and then we're going to do it, but because I think that's a pathway that I want to walk down with you and see what might be there.
SPEAKER_06: Well, I do have to draw the line on that pathway at SCAT.
SPEAKER_06: We are not ever going there.
SPEAKER_00: I don't even want to hear you say the word even as a negative.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Even though my literary hero, James Joyce, whose letters to his wife Nora Barnacle, I read completely.
SPEAKER_00: He was into that, and it was not arousing.
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's good to hear.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So we are aligned on that.
SPEAKER_06: That's not even on our fantasy menu, but that would be a hard no.
SPEAKER_00: No, it would be such a hard no for me.
SPEAKER_00: So look at this.
SPEAKER_00: We're completely on the same page.
SPEAKER_06: There you go.
SPEAKER_06: We never have conflict.
SPEAKER_06: We never do.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Next P for me is erotic literature.
SPEAKER_06: Oh.
SPEAKER_06: How elevated.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think it would be fun, given that we have both enjoyed erotic literature individually in our past, to bring something to each other.
SPEAKER_06: So maybe we each take a Nancy Friday book, spend an hour or two looking through it, and then find one that we like and bring it to the sex date and we read it to each other.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: And those stories are super perverted.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they are.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Is that what you think of when you think of erotic literature?
SPEAKER_06: Well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_06: I'm just trying to think of what books do we have in the house where we could like go to our corners and pick something.
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, obviously you could use the internet.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I'm just wondering, like, have you had a great experience reading what would be considered legitimate literature where you got super turned on by something?
SPEAKER_06: Um It's tricky because they're all so precious about it.
SPEAKER_06: Like, you know, I'm thinking of Outlander, for example.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And there have been women who thought that was really sexy, and I'm just like, ugh, they're trying so hard not to say the word penis.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So it didn't work for you because I'm talking about something that you read and you didn't have to convince yourself to be turned on, but that you just got really turned on about.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I remember back in middle school, I had a naughty friend who brought some bodice ripper novels to school and had me read certain scenes that she had dog eared in her book.
SPEAKER_06: And those turned me on.
SPEAKER_06: But, you know, that was seventh grade me, and my tastes have certainly gotten more mature since then.
SPEAKER_06: So oh we read or I read the book Salt Kiss by Sierra Simone, and that circulated through our whole friend group because someone asked, Do you have a book recommendation for something naughty for the beach?
SPEAKER_06: And then he loved it so much and raved about it that other friends got it.
SPEAKER_06: So Salt Kiss, which you have not read.
SPEAKER_02: No.
SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02: So sexy.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So that one was um bisexual men and um ultimately a woman got brought in as a threesome partner.
SPEAKER_06: And so there were very hot scenes in there.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So maybe we uh I don't know, find something like that.
SPEAKER_06: But that seems like a lot of research, but Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I remember getting rock hard in my first year world literature class at university.
SPEAKER_00: And one was a book called The White Hotel by D.M.
SPEAKER_00: Thomas, and it's got very, very heavy themes, but the eroticism was off the charts.
SPEAKER_00: And then there was Lolita by Nabakov.
SPEAKER_00: That's naughty.
SPEAKER_00: It's super naughty.
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's such forbidden territory, but maybe because it's also considered great literature, and it obviously is when you read it, at least in my opinion, it was.
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that was super hot.
SPEAKER_06: And throwback to 2011 when we were very, very new to dating, and I had just gotten laser eye surgery and couldn't watch TV or look at screens or read books for two days.
SPEAKER_06: And you came over to my house, and over the course of those two days, you read Lolita to me.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: That was one of my very early like formative memories of Liam and the eroticism that he brought to my life.
SPEAKER_06: So bringing that back, not necessarily in the form of Lolita, but something else, I think that would be super sexy.
SPEAKER_06: Can you imagine lying in bed at night reading a chapter to each other of a sexy book we're working through together?
SPEAKER_06: And then, like, you know, we just reach across and touch each other a little bit to see how's it going over there?
SPEAKER_06: That could be a sexy nighttime routine.
SPEAKER_00: It could.
SPEAKER_00: You know what the one problem is though?
SPEAKER_00: As someone who loves music, my experience of getting other people to love the music I love has not been a story of grand successes.
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever questioned whether your taste is as good as you think it is?
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, my taste is impeccable.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming that other people feel the same way about their taste, that it's impeccable.
SPEAKER_00: And I will grant them that theirs is the best taste, at least in their own minds.
SPEAKER_06: I'm not that arrogant.
SPEAKER_06: I don't think anyone's gonna like what I like.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just worried that we wouldn't be able to agree on what constitutes sexy literature.
SPEAKER_06: Well, that's fine though.
SPEAKER_06: You can just learn more about what your partner's sensibilities are.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, your next please is.
SPEAKER_00: My next please is edging.
SPEAKER_06: I looked at that one and thought, we both have such a hard time coming.
SPEAKER_06: I can't even imagine edging.
SPEAKER_00: You know what edging seems like?
SPEAKER_00: It seems like permission to be selfish.
SPEAKER_00: Because the other person's sole job is to slowly, slowly, slowly, step by step drive you to the peak of arousal and only then letting you have an orgasm.
SPEAKER_00: So there's no give and take.
SPEAKER_00: It's all giving in one direction.
SPEAKER_00: So I guess it's almost like Yoni and Lingam massage.
SPEAKER_00: I would be happy to be the person who edges you.
SPEAKER_00: I would be very happy to be edged.
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: If I was betting, do I think this will happen?
SPEAKER_00: I would say it's low probability, but it is an interest I have.
SPEAKER_06: Well, I guess it is kind of like that um that experience I described in the last podcast where the woman was um strap-on fucking me and wouldn't let me grab my vibrator.
SPEAKER_06: So it was making me crazy because you know, the way I come is I need my vibrator.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So denying me that actually made the orgasm eventually better.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So edging kind of edges into the power dynamic thing that really appeals to you.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Look at that.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: To have you well, first to give you the power over my orgasm would be sexy.
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And then, but I mean, the potentially frustrating part is you have to be pulled back from the edge.
SPEAKER_06: Like you have to be taken right to the brink of orgasm and then pulled back.
SPEAKER_06: And I think both of us have had that experience in a frustrating way where we've been like so close and it's taken us so long to get there.
SPEAKER_06: And then uh, something distracts us and we can't get there, and it's just like, oh fuck it.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's kind of like a good denial and a bad denial.
SPEAKER_00: So we would want to become masters of the good form of denial.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_04: I could get on board with this.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_04: Let's try it.
SPEAKER_00: What's your next please could we do this?
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So this one, first I highlighted it.
SPEAKER_06: Uh consensual non-consent.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: So that's kind of playing with the idea of you know being tied up and forced or, you know, grabbed in the dark and pushed up against a wall and having your skirt pulled up or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: And just No niceties.
SPEAKER_06: No.
SPEAKER_06: So obviously that fits in with my desire for subby power plays.
SPEAKER_06: But then as I thought about it, I thought, uh, I don't think I could do it with you.
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
SPEAKER_06: I think it would be way too hard to take you seriously.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: I get that.
SPEAKER_06: But I it would be fun with a partner who is into it.
SPEAKER_06: So I definitely know we have a friend who is into it, and he's gone like running across a dark field to grab a girl and throw her to the ground and and do this with her, which turns me on every time I think about it.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: So maybe, maybe he could do it.
SPEAKER_06: But with you, so I cr I cross that off and said, not with you.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And then I said, How about body painting?
SPEAKER_06: So it sounds lame after talking about like chasing someone down and throwing them to the ground.
SPEAKER_06: But I thought that could be an interesting way for us to both indulge something we like.
SPEAKER_06: So you're an artist, painter.
SPEAKER_06: You could spend a long time, you know, creating a beautiful work of art on my body, and I could enjoy the slow sensual buildup of that, the like uh sensory play part of that.
SPEAKER_06: I've also heard of kits where you get a big canvas and body paint, and you're just supposed to like put it all all over each other and roll around and maybe even fuck on the canvas.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what Eve Klein did in the 1960s.
SPEAKER_00: He dipped women in paint and rolled them around on canvases.
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So that could be fun and playful and silly and you know, create something that would probably be hideous.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That covering you in paint and rolling you around a canvas is a large-scale endeavor and the mess, it's easy to imagine getting out of control.
SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell Where could we do that in our house, Liam?
SPEAKER_00: In the basement.
SPEAKER_06: Where we have an entire fucking art studio.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: It wouldn't be that hard.
SPEAKER_00: No, but even then I have had to scrape paint off of the tiles in that room, and it's not as easy as you think it's gonna be.
SPEAKER_00: So Anyway, but the idea of body painting with a smaller brush and creating a design on your body as a canvas, that's something I could get into.
SPEAKER_06: We had a small taste of this at HEDA one time where you did some, you know, filigree stuff on my boobs and actually burnt right into my skin because I sat in the sun too long.
SPEAKER_06: Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00: So let's not do that.
SPEAKER_06: But anyway, that was kind of fun.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do have a picture of it.
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
SPEAKER_06: I was just looking at the list, and there aren't that many things we have not done, so I was very, you know, limited with uh things I could select from.
SPEAKER_06: So anyway, I'd be down for body painting.
SPEAKER_06: Let's try that.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: How about you?
SPEAKER_00: Last please.
SPEAKER_00: Is one that you mentioned earlier.
SPEAKER_00: Fisting.
SPEAKER_02: Oh dear god.
SPEAKER_00: But let me say this.
SPEAKER_00: You want me to fist you?
SPEAKER_00: No.
SPEAKER_00: I do not want you to fist my anus.
SPEAKER_00: And I your fists are big.
SPEAKER_00: I do not want to fist you with my big man fist.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: I want to see you trump hands.
SPEAKER_00: I want to see you fisted by another woman.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: We have friends with small hands.
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So that's an important element of that.
SPEAKER_00: I have no desire.
SPEAKER_00: Again, if you really beg me, I go for it.
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it doesn't even feel sexy to me.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_00: It has to be an elegant thing between women.
SPEAKER_06: And it would have to be something I was begging for, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Everything.
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do anything here that you're not begging for or that you can't pretend to be begging for.
SPEAKER_04: All right.
SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't know if I'll ever beg for body painting.
SPEAKER_04: I just I had to pick something.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I know.
SPEAKER_00: Another low probability of actually happening.
SPEAKER_00: But you know, I think there is a value in talking these things through.
SPEAKER_00: And maybe nothing happens this year, and then next year the idea pops into one of our heads of body painting because we saw a scene in a movie or heard a story from a friend, and all of a sudden we're on it.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's a value in bringing up these things, even if they don't seem like they're going to happen imminently.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Maybe we could do like body clay pottery making, like the scene from Ghost.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: That feels messy.
SPEAKER_06: Okay, to sum up, I would please like to try some tantra.
SPEAKER_06: Sharing erotic literature.
SPEAKER_06: I want someone to consensually non-consent fuck me.
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: And with you, I'd be open to trying some body painting.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So gentle.
SPEAKER_00: Um, my please can we tries were golden showers, edging, and you being fisted by another woman.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So we also had that category of H for honorable mention.
SPEAKER_04: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So something that didn't make the top three, but that we'd be kind of interested in seeing.
SPEAKER_00: So did you make an H?
SPEAKER_06: Well, I had psychedelics on there because it was, you know, something that I feel like is just a given.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: But the other one I did was roleplay.
SPEAKER_06: Ah.
SPEAKER_06: So we have had very limited but very powerful experiences with roleplay in our early days of the three-hour sex date before we had discovered MDMA.
SPEAKER_06: So how sexy would it be to bring roleplay back while on M?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That would work ri What wouldn't work well on M?
SPEAKER_03: Everything is.
SPEAKER_00: Like literally.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Like let's build a log cabin in the ravine behind our house.
SPEAKER_06: On M.
SPEAKER_06: So I don't know how much we'd get done.
SPEAKER_06: Anyway.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Yes to that.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: What's your honorable mention?
SPEAKER_00: My honorable mention is another thing that I would only want if you really wanted to do it, and that is a gangbang.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Could I be gangbanged by a gang of women?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course you could.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that you can fill my fantasy.
SPEAKER_00: That is the one part we talked about cum earlier.
SPEAKER_00: That's cum is a big part of my gangbang fantasy, which precludes the women only version.
SPEAKER_00: So again, you don't have to do it, sweetie.
SPEAKER_00: So don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_06: Are we talking about like coming on the outside of me?
SPEAKER_06: Like uh what's the the Japanese thing?
SPEAKER_00: Bukaki?
SPEAKER_00: Bukaki.
SPEAKER_06: Or is it them all coming inside me and then just it oozing out of me?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I think for me, it would be them fucking you but pulling out to come on or around your pussy.
SPEAKER_06: And then the next guy would have a slippery mess down there, and that would be fun.
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, kind of.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: Now that I start to think it through in my mind, maybe not so much, but that's kind of the general idea.
SPEAKER_06: Then it'll like turn into like little balls of stickiness and yeah, disgusting.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So it's an idealized.
SPEAKER_06: I don't want to I don't wanna yuck anybody's young.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And I I did have an enjoyable gangbang, but I did find it it like it was a lot of work for me.
SPEAKER_00: You but you put a lot of effort into it.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: A lot of women, how do I know this?
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I might have seen some porn.
SPEAKER_00: They just lay back and let the guys do their thing.
SPEAKER_00: Whereas you were an entertainment extravaganza.
SPEAKER_00: You were giving hand jobs and blowjobs and you were being fucked at the same time.
SPEAKER_00: And there was a lot going on.
SPEAKER_00: You're putting a lot of effort in.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe if we ever do this, and I'm guessing we're never going to do this, but if you ever do, you take that pillow princess approach to the gangbang.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Oh, maybe we can combine this with my consensual non-consent fantasy.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Or I can be tied up and then you can't overwork.
SPEAKER_06: A bunch of people fuck me and I have no control.
SPEAKER_06: And I can't also entertain them.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because you're a hard worker.
SPEAKER_00: You're a good thing.
SPEAKER_06: Just need a lot of lube for that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: All right.
SPEAKER_06: All right.
SPEAKER_06: I'm down.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: So do you feel like, in conclusion, you have I'm not going to ask you to pick what's your favorite one or the one that you think is most likely to happen, but do you feel in general like we've maybe opened up the field of possibilities a bit for ourselves?
SPEAKER_06: I think so.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, let's keep track of these sheets and refer to them and make sure that we don't just leave this as a, you know, fun little podcast episode, but just, you know, take seriously that we could inject some more variety and fun and spice into our sex life.
SPEAKER_06: And we've discovered some things here that we might not otherwise have thought of.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And if you want to do this at home, we will put the link to this fantasy menu in the show notes.
SPEAKER_06: And you could do this whole thing yourself.
SPEAKER_06: Print them off.
SPEAKER_06: Do your little yes, no, please, or use it in a different way.
SPEAKER_06: Just keep it in your bedside table and whip it out when you're in the middle of sex.
SPEAKER_06: And like, I don't know, throw a dart at it on the wall, see pin the tail on the donkey.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's lots of ways to use it.
SPEAKER_00: You could actually say, I guess you want to maybe edit the sheet first, but say you can just pick whatever you want.
SPEAKER_00: And then the other person can pick whatever they want from the list.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, or each of you go and pick one thing for tonight and bring it to the other.
SPEAKER_06: And then you'd have veto power.
SPEAKER_06: Like if your partner brings sounding to you, you could say, fuck no.
SPEAKER_06: Unless you're one of those ones that really loves it.
SPEAKER_06: Unless it lights up your imagination.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: And then have the best time.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for putting this little assignment together for us.
SPEAKER_00: This was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_06: Thanks for indulging me.
SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
SPEAKER_06: Love you.
SPEAKER_00: I love you too.
SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
SPEAKER_06: Bye.
SPEAKER_06: If you want to get in touch with us or follow any of our socials, we now have so many we cannot list them.
SPEAKER_06: So we've put them all together in one handy place.
SPEAKER_06: If you go to katemonogamish.com, you'll see all of our ventures.
SPEAKER_06: Our Instagram, Twitter, OnlyFans, Travel Company, Patreon, blog and podcasts, all the stuff we do.
SPEAKER_00: During this episode, we talked about our travel business because we're so excited about it.
SPEAKER_00: But we want to take a moment to remind you that there are other individuals putting together amazing lifestyle travel opportunities.
SPEAKER_00: Ones that we have personally taken advantage of.
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about Room77, Life.com, who runs their Islamujares hotel takeovers.
SPEAKER_00: Casual swingers, who put together unbelievable events every April at Hedonism.
SPEAKER_00: Naughty Jim, who put together the Be Better at Being Bad event, also at Hedonism.
SPEAKER_00: And Libertine Events, who put together Podcast of Blueza or PCAP.
SPEAKER_00: So keep that in mind as you're considering your travel.
SPEAKER_00: If Sapio Tours doesn't work for you, there are other great opportunities available.
SPEAKER_06: Go out there and meet all kinds of people and build your community.
SPEAKER_06: Bye.
SPEAKER_00: Bye.