Greening Up My Act

Should I Worry About Microplastics in Food?

• Episode 92

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Some people say we eat a credit card's worth of plastic every week — which is not true. But it still ain't great. In this episode, you'll learn the basics of where microplastics come from, how they may be impacting the environment and ourselves, along with steps to help limit your microplastic exposure. Let's all try not to panic together.

For more on plastic recycling, check out our episodes (16 & 17) here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1849707/episodes/13220903

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Email us with questions: greeningupmyact@gmail.com
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Tiffany (00:01)
Hi, Kat. So we just recorded a Patreon episode, it started off with me seeing a ghost. So if you want to, potential ghost, allegedly.

Kat (00:02)
Hello Tiffany.

Yeah. Yeah, if you haven't already, if you haven't already, this will come out sometime in late October or November, I think. So, but you can go back to Patreon and listen to that if you want. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:20)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think the Patreon will definitely be out. So yeah, we talked for like an hour about ghosts and trued crime and yeah, that was fun. Like my mom's alien story, ⁓ my potential ghost encounter for real. The curtain probably wasn't one, but I don't know, man. Yeah, seance, yes, that was really interesting.

Kat (00:25)
Yeah.

Aliens, ghosts, psychology, yeah, we covered everything. Sleep paralysis.

Yeah.

I don't know. The seance. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:50)
So if you're interested, head on over there. But.

Kat (00:53)
patreon.com,

greening up my acc.

Tiffany (00:55)
There you go. So, ⁓ did you know? No, that's not how I want to start. So there is a 2022 CNN article titled, we consume up to a credit card's worth of plastic every week.

Kat (01:14)
for a week.

Tiffany (01:19)
This is... Yes. So this is from 2022. Have you not heard that before? That idea that we consume a- It's like all over the place.

Kat (01:29)
No. This sounds

kind of like you swallow six spiders in your sleep every year or something. Okay, it sounds apocryphal, yeah.

Tiffany (01:36)
You are not wrong. Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Yes. So that's like something that a lot of people and brands say that we eat a credit card's worth of plastic every week. ⁓ Other people have said, have framed it as like 50 plastic bags per year.

Kat (01:47)
Okay.

Okay.

Tiffany (02:00)
which is nuts. so this is all over the place. This is CNN and it's still like it's there. Like it's up and it's an app.

Kat (02:12)
They have fact checkers

and yeah.

Tiffany (02:15)
Yeah. So.

I found this other article that made a correction and that's why I knew that it was a correction because it basically said previously we said that people eat a credit card worth of plastic every week. That's not true. So according to the Journal of Hazardous Materials letters,

Kat (02:27)
Aha, okay.

There's a journal for everything.

Tiffany (02:40)
Dunno. That calculation contains severe errors. The author of the original study ⁓ or calculation overestimates total ingested mass of microplastics by several orders of magnitude and it can be considered as a rather irrelevant factor for the toxic effects of microplastic particles on the human body. CNN doesn't care.

Kat (02:55)
Okay.

Okay.

They're like, this gets people to click. So.

Tiffany (03:08)
Mm-hmm.

I also the other day was listening to a podcast and I heard an ad from Blue Land, who I will talk about a little bit. That's the, do you know them? They're like a eco-friendly cleaning company. I'm sure you've heard of them. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. ⁓ But the podcast ad, their Blue Land podcast ad used that same statistic like the other day.

Kat (03:19)
Mm-mm.

okay, yeah, I've probably seen their ads. I'm going to now that we're saying it out loud, so yeah.

Tiffany (03:38)
So that's annoying, right? But microplastics are still pretty awful. So where's the truth? It turns out it is the freaking wild west out here.

Kat (03:46)
Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, surprise.

Tiffany (03:57)
Like, it's, yeah, it's all over the place. So let's make sense of what microplastics are, how they're impacting the environment and us and potential solutions, including a potentially greenwashed idea of microplastic free certification.

Kat (04:14)
boy, okay.

Tiffany (04:16)
Welcome to Greening Up Back.

Right, my finger wags.

Kat (04:33)
We have some killer dance moves.

Yeah, I did a shimmy. That's pretty exciting.

Tiffany (04:43)
All right, run through my sources real quick so we can get to the meat and potatoes. ⁓ Yeah, to the plastic-filled meat and potatoes. ⁓ So see it in, obviously use them. ⁓ Journal of Hazardous Materials Letters. I hate that name. Use them. UCSF, University of California, San Francisco.

Kat (04:48)
Or microplastics, yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I had to do the math in my head. Yeah. Mm Yes.

Tiffany (05:10)
Feels right. Yeah.

The book that I was, I think I talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but it's called A Poison Like No Other. It's about microplastics. ⁓ The Revelator, which is a website about plastic pollution. ⁓ One website from Advantech Plastics, which is a company that is making a new kind of plastic that we're gonna talk about, and it's fascinating.

⁓ journal environmental chemistry letters and science alert.com. So yeah, I, I tried. Like I said, it really is the wild west. yeah. Okay. Let's start off. What is a micro plastic? We've all at this point probably heard the term, but it is a plastic particle that's less than five millimeters in size. So it's tiny.

Kat (05:47)
sources. Sounds like a good list. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (06:10)
It originates from both intentional manufacturing, which is called a primary microplastic, which would be like your beads that they used to put in like face wash, that kind of thing. and it also can come from secondary sources, like the breakdown of larger plastic items, which is called a secondary microplastic. They come from all sorts of places, synthetic textiles. So all of our running gear.

Kat (06:21)
Yes, yeah.

Right, okay.

Yep, when you wash it, yep.

Tiffany (06:40)
Spandex.

Yep. Tires apparently are really bad for microplastics, which I did not realize. Uh-huh. Because they're probably not made out of rubber anymore, Or at least not totally. Yeah. Glitter. Pure. That's all it is is shiny microplastics. Micro beads, which they're kind of phased out at this point. Yeah.

Kat (06:46)
⁓ That makes sense. Yeah, okay.

So yeah, not mostly rubber, yeah.

Just plastic, yeah.

They've been phased out. Yeah, I think they use wax now, mostly.

Tiffany (07:09)
⁓ and the disintegration of everyday plastic products.

Kat (07:13)
Yeah, I read somewhere when you open a bottle, every time you open a plastic bottle, like it releases microplastics. I don't know how true that is, but yeah. goody.

Tiffany (07:21)
It probably is true. Love it.

⁓ Again, we're going to cover some sort of solutions, helpful tips, so no despair needed. ⁓ So there is no such thing as a single microplastic because they're all so different because there are so many different kinds of plastic. But a lot of people consider like that book that I read said there are like three kind of types, nurdles, microplastics, and microfibers.

Kat (07:37)
Okay.

Okay.

Nerd-

Nerdle sounds like a creature from Star Wars, okay.

Tiffany (07:52)
I know.

And that's basically just like a small piece. I don't know. Yeah. And I actually think nerdles, I hate that word. It's like, I think that's what they use when they make new plastic. I think those are like the little pieces. But I might be, I didn't really look into it, but yeah, microfibers are another one. So how bad are they?

Kat (07:57)
Okay.

⁓ okay.

Tiffany (08:22)
Aren't we curious?

Kat (08:22)
Okay,

this is real spooky shit so.

Tiffany (08:25)
Yeah, I know. So, a poison like no other. You can kind of see his slant. The author's slant. Uh-huh. He says, the world has never seen a pollutant like this. DDT is a chemical. Plastics contain at least 10,000 chemicals, many of which scientists find concerning.

Kat (08:32)
Yeah, I can see his point of view very clearly. Okay.

Jesus.

Yeah. ⁓

Tiffany (08:50)
⁓

So plastic is mixed with all of these chemicals to do things like make them bend or make make the plastic stronger that type of thing ⁓ Plastics Well, the the guy the author of this book said plastics are not actually Necessary really because not too long ago. We use cardboard and glass just fine ⁓ Really not too long ago if you think about it ⁓

Kat (09:19)
Yeah,

I mean it's since kind of the invention of Tupperware, yeah.

Tiffany (09:19)
and

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was what, like the sixties, seventies? And then even then they were using glass bottles, right? Mm Yeah. Get your milk delivered in glass. That was a thing for a long time. Yeah. I think you can even do that. Like when my mother-in-law was... You might even be able to do it now. Yeah. Yeah. There's like a, there's one near us that you can get at the grocery store.

Kat (09:28)
Yeah. I mean, it really took off in the eighties. Yeah, still. You to get a Coke or something. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

There's some dairies that... Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (09:52)
I a frickin arm and a leg, but...

Kat (09:53)
I know,

that's the thing.

Tiffany (09:57)
and then the craziest part about all of this is that we have known like in your mind has have your eyes been opened about microplastics like relatively recently

Kat (10:12)
I feel like I've heard more about it recently, but yeah, like it's been like the last five years.

Tiffany (10:17)
Yeah.

Yeah. Did you know much about it before?

Kat (10:22)
No. mean, someone like they were talking about it in face washes and stuff, but not like every time you open a plastic bottle that releases microplastics or every time you wash your running gear, it releases microplastics. That's all been new to me. Yeah.

Tiffany (10:27)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, same. ⁓ Do you want to know when the first person figured out that there was a shitload of microplastics in the ocean?

Kat (10:44)
Tell me, play it on me. I had a feeling, yeah, okay. Okay.

Tiffany (10:46)
It was the 1970s.

So

a scientist named Edward Carpenter who actually now teaches, I think he now teaches, at least in 2019 he did, he may be retired now, but he now teaches at San Francisco State University. He figured this out and he told the plastics industry that there were microplastics in the ocean. He had a whole write-up in the New York Times. It was a big deal for a minute, but then the focus...

shifted to macro plastics, like plastic bags or bottles or whatever. Like that sort of, that idea of pollution where it's like the visible shit, yeah.

Kat (11:22)
So... Okay.

Because you can see it. Yeah, and

that's what, and when people think of the floating garbage patch in the ocean, that's what they think of, but that's not actually what it is. It's microplastics. Okay, yeah.

Tiffany (11:39)
Yes.

Yeah,

I wonder, I can't remember. It's funny because I have learned a lot since our plastic episode. We should probably redo some of that at some point because I feel like I didn't know all of this microplastics stuff yet. And so when I was, I feel like my conclusions for our plastics research was like, this is shit, this is awful. But also, I think I didn't know how bad.

Kat (12:10)
you missed an aspect of it that makes it even worse. Yeah, this is like the unleaded gas or the the leaded gasoline of our generation. But it's gone on longer. Yeah.

Tiffany (12:13)
Yes.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah. And it's not only in like near cars. It's like in every single thing. Yeah. So I'm assuming, and I didn't really look into it, but I'm assuming the oil and gas industry had something to do with the shift away from microplastics. That's just an assumption.

Kat (12:39)
Well, and probably and

Coca Cola, know, lower the the big, big bottle, right? They want to go. You can recycle it. It's on you to do it, you know, but it makes our life easier. So, yeah.

Tiffany (12:44)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, less responsibility for them and it's cheaper. Yeah. So anyway, I don't remember it being a topic of conversation until like five years ago. So.

Kat (12:58)
Mm-hmm.

No, and

I think even we talk about it more because we talk about plastics in this podcast. I know more about it. Yeah. Because it's just, yeah. There'll be those scary articles that'll come up on CNN or wherever. But it's like, I mean, it feels like in the last year, there's been a lot more about we consume so many microplastics and yeah.

Tiffany (13:13)
Right. Yeah, we're like doing more research than the average Joe.

Yeah, totally,

totally.

Kat (13:36)
and how

bad it is for us. Like a new stud- okay, I'm gonna let you do your podcast, but it feels like a new study just came out saying how bad it is, and that's- and I haven't even read that, but it just- the headline came up. So.

Tiffany (13:45)
Yeah, I haven't

seen that, but I believe it. And like I said with the CNN one, that type of thing, there is a lot of misinformation out there. let that be a comfort. But so how bad is it for the environment? I just sort of wanted to, and this is, I only had time to skim, like graze over this because basically there are so many layers of consequences, potential.

Kat (13:55)
Okay.

goody, okay.

Okay.

Tiffany (14:15)
consequences in the future especially. Yeah, exactly. So, A Poison Like No Other, that book says that water processing plants capture 83 to 90 % of microplastics, which sounds like way more than I expected. But there are so, so, so, so many of them that even like 10 % is an insane, insane amount.

Kat (14:16)
Which we don't even know, how do we measure it? Yeah.

wow, okay. Yeah.

I had a... it's the law of large numbers again, right? Yeah. ⁓ bummer. Okay.

Tiffany (14:46)
I know, I know. for example, So and microplastics can have an impact on- can have a lot of impacts on the environment. A lot of them, like you said, we don't even know yet. But one, microplastics and sand absorb energy. I think because they're darker than sand. I didn't- Yeah. And they make the sand up to four degrees hotter.

Kat (15:08)
⁓ so like more sun, yeah.

my god, goodbye turtle eggs.

Tiffany (15:17)
That's exactly, yes, that's like one example of how, yes, or your feet, the skin on your feet. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, turtles are like the one example, one of many examples, ⁓ Most of these, well, and that's also a huge, that exact thing is a huge, huge concern for the Arctic.

Kat (15:20)
or crabs or birds, yeah, or fish, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I can see that, yeah. It's not just the CO2 in the air that's warming our earth. We're literally warming the earth itself.

Tiffany (15:48)
I know. Yeah.

Yes,

yep. ⁓ So most of these that are in the ocean come from wastewater.

So a big portion of that is washing our clothes. I'll talk about at the end something we can do and I'm going to look into it. haven't yet, but ⁓ that will help. But most of us aren't thinking about this yet. So the research says that we may see serious environmental consequences in 50 to 100 years if concentrations are allowed to grow like they are now.

Kat (16:34)
Okay,

yeah.

Tiffany (16:35)
because

it will continue to get more and more more more concentrated. So it's like, as bad as it is now, if we don't do something about it, it will get that much worse, which is really scary. That was like one of the scarier things that I realized is like, we put out so much plastic now and if we let that continue, boy, we don't even know. We have no clue.

Kat (16:49)
Yeah.

Tiffany (17:05)
Okay.

When should I take a break? Not yet. Okay. It is only four pages of notes, but I feel like I packed a lot in. ⁓ how bad is it for us? This is a big consideration for people and also for animals, any living creature. So...

Kat (17:10)
Naya

Okay. Yeah.

Tiffany (17:30)
Microplastics can enter the human body or animal bodies through ingestion or inhalation.

Kat (17:37)
inhalation was one I hadn't thought about, yes, that makes sense. Okay.

Tiffany (17:39)
I know.

Ugh. Because they're in the air. So while the credit card myth is exaggerated, they are still in everything we eat. Almost everything we eat, drink, and they're in the air we breathe.

Kat (17:44)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Tiffany (17:59)
⁓ so plastic bottles, a lot of people say like, don't drink out of plastic bottles, which is true. You shouldn't really. And we'll get to that at the end, but, ⁓ sometimes it's impossible not to. And we can't feel guilty every single time we touch plastic because right now.

Kat (18:11)
Yeah.

It's even like there's plastic lining on tin cans and stuff too. Yeah, so yeah.

Tiffany (18:20)
Yes, yes, yeah,

that's the most frustrating part. plastic bottles have many more microplastics in them, but microplastics are in all water. And I looked up like I have well water and I was like, could microplastics be in that? Like from where? And apparently runoff from farms, which we live around a bunch of farms.

Kat (18:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (18:49)
has microblastics in it and it can contaminate the groundwater and it probably has.

Kat (18:50)
Yeah.

And filters don't, like I have a filter on my fridge, like for the water that doesn't catch microplastics because they're too small.

Tiffany (19:00)
Right.

Yeah, I don't know. might, it might catch some actually. Yeah, it's probably not useless, but it's, yeah, not all of them. ⁓ so they, as you probably have heard, they have been found in human placentas. They've been found in, yeah, all over the place, all over our bodies. the scary fact about all of this is that we do not know the full health effects.

Kat (19:05)
Okay. Okay.

testicles. Yeah.

Tiffany (19:31)
We really don't because it hasn't been studied. ⁓

Kat (19:35)
Yeah,

I want like it hasn't. Yeah, and it.

Tiffany (19:37)
Enough. Anyway.

Kat (19:42)
Yeah, my god, like how would you even, you'd have to follow a cohort for 30 years and measure their microplastic levels and see what kind of outcomes they have, you know, like, okay, yeah, that's the whole thing.

Tiffany (19:56)
Mm-hmm. So it may impact sperm like they might not be as good of swimmers, which is kind of scary for like our future. ⁓ It may impact our gut health. That's like a whole theory, but these are just theories that they mess with our gut biome and cause all of these like inflammation, all these issues. Inflammation just makes me want to

Kat (20:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tiffany (20:25)
that word makes me want to cry because R.F.K. Jr. talks about that all the time. May cause cancer as we could imagine, right? Just we don't really know. And my least favorite quote that I found this whole time was from a woman named Desiree Labode. She's a pediatric infectious disease

Kat (20:26)
I know, was like, what does that mean?

Tiffany (20:53)
physician at Stanford Medicine. She says, although data is still quite limited, maybe all these epidemics that we have, obesity, cardiovascular disease, everybody getting cancer, are related.

Kat (21:08)
I mean...

Tiffany (21:10)
And she says people are trying to figure out if they're associated with the plastics we're inhaling and imbibing.

Kat (21:17)
Yeah. I think it would make sense. mean, there's so many things that could like your genetic factors, your diet, these all go in. Why wouldn't there's been, you know, rising rates of a lot of things lately. Why wouldn't microplastics be a contributing factor? And then maybe not. It's like the one thing, but it could be. Yeah. Why not?

Tiffany (21:31)
I know.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (21:41)
Okay,

rabble, rabble, rabble.

Tiffany (21:44)
However, okay, so let's sort of shine a little light of hope here, of hope. ⁓ Another woman from the same article said, just because you have a little plastic in you doesn't necessarily mean doomsday. So let's keep in mind that we really don't know yet, which could go either way, right? Like it's scary not...

Kat (21:50)
Okay.

Yeah, it's not as obvious as leaded gasoline. Like,

there's no immediate correlation we can tell, right? Yeah. So, okay. Which is helpful, I guess.

Tiffany (22:16)
Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. So then, okay, so that's kind of how this is a perfect segue because that is how microplastics impact the environment and ourselves maybe. We don't know. ⁓ Which I was actually surprised how little we know.

Kat (22:40)
Yeah, it seems like that would be, but I mean, who's funding the studies, right?

Tiffany (22:46)
Right.

Not us. Not the government. Ugh.

Kat (22:48)
Yeah, no.

Definitely not oil and gas.

Tiffany (22:53)
Yeah, I mean, to be fair, hadn't funded them under Biden either, but...

Kat (22:56)
No,

mean, well, yeah. Why would they, even if they did have the studies, why would they release the information if they don't have to, you know, if it's if it's bad?

Tiffany (23:00)
No, I know.

Yeah, exactly.

Yep. Yep.

Kat (23:12)
Okay, is this break time now? Okay, let me go cry into my plastic water bottle.

Tiffany (23:14)
It is break time, which is probably a relief.

Kat (23:22)
It's got metal on the inside, but the straw's plastic.

Tiffany (23:24)
Yeah, I know. I have the same kind of one. ⁓ Yeah, so we're going to take a quick break, take a quick breather. And then when we get back, we're going to talk about the fun part, the microplastic-free certification. Yes. Yes. All right.

Kat (23:41)
funny. Okay, can't wait.

Tiffany (24:00)
Alright, and we're back. That was quite the break. Everyone feel refreshed? Okay, so this micro plastic free certification. heard this, I think it was that Blue Land ad actually. And I was just like, my ears perked up because I knew I was doing this episode. was like, huh? Like that sounds great. That sounds awesome. So I was

Kat (24:02)
And we're back.

Yeah. totally.

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (24:28)
kind of excited, also quite skeptical, which, okay.

Kat (24:31)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

I know where this is going.

Tiffany (24:36)
Yes. So there is a website that is called microplasticfree.org that certifies products as microplastic free.

Kat (24:49)
Sounds great. Sounds like something you're gonna pay 40 extra dollars for at Whole Foods, but okay.

Tiffany (24:51)
So.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And I think you don't quote me on this. think you probably pay for the certification. I'm assuming, but don't quote me. I don't know. didn't look. so for them, for a product to meet that certification level, a product must meet stringent criteria ensuring that all its components can fully bio-assimilate within one year. I will get into that term, but keep that in your noggin.

Kat (25:01)
Of course, okay.

Tiffany (25:25)
bio-assimilate. This... you are not too far off. So this means each material used must naturally break down into harmless elements through microbial degradation, leaving no trace of microplastics behind.

Kat (25:25)
Okay.

I smell green hoo-wee! ⁓

Okay.

Tiffany (25:49)
Our certification process involves rigorous testing and validation to confirm that products adhere to the standards. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. They also have, ⁓ did I find this somewhere else? I may have found this somewhere else, but I was like, what the F is bioassimilation?

Kat (26:00)
Okay.

Yeah.

Tiffany (26:11)
Okay, no, this is just like, ⁓ shoot, I'm like waving my arms around in fury. So bio-assimilation, this is just a definition that I found. It's a process by which materials are broken down into their fundamental building blocks. So that sounds great, right? Like you take a plastic piece and it's broken down into carbon, I don't know, which can...

Kat (26:15)
It's very exciting.

Yeah.

petroleum.

Right. Yeah.

Tiffany (26:37)
Yeah, which can then be used as nourishment by living organisms such as microbes.

lovely. The problem... well there are a couple problems. so... well first I want to talk about the testing process that they use. It's based on the results of the... okay sorry sorry. So they have this list of micro plastic free approved materials.

Kat (26:45)
Sure. Yeah.

Okay.

Tiffany (27:11)
And it's based on the results of this OECD 310 test. Sounds like a lot of big words. It evaluates the ability of, supposedly, the materials to bio-assimilate. And so basically, if the product has all of these things that can supposedly bio-assimilate in it, and only that, which they say anything.

almost can be on this list ⁓ is how they frame it. It's, or at least how I understood it, don't sue me. They say that it is environmentally neutral and it can become environmentally neutral. So then we get onto the Blueland ad that I heard. I looked at Blueland's website. So they make like cleaning products that you get

Kat (27:50)
You

⁓

Okay.

Tiffany (28:10)
You get the glass bottle and then you get a tablet and then, yeah, and then you can put the tablet in and shake it around with some water and then you have a cleaning product. ⁓ I'm assuming that they are highly overpriced. That's just a guess compared to Dr. Bronner's, but just guess.

Kat (28:12)
You ref- okay, I have heard of this, yes.

Okay, I'm looking them up on my phone right now.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, so

Tiffany (28:37)
Do

you see the marketing fluff that says certified microplastic free or 100 % microplastic free? It's all over their website.

Kat (28:41)
Yeah.

Yep, our 100

% plastic-free tablets are safer for your family, healthier for the planet, and proven to get your surfaces SPARKLING CLEAN!

Tiffany (28:55)
Yes.

I really don't like them for this.

Kat (29:01)
You can buy,

okay, this is their multi-surface cleaner tablet refills. Two tablets for $5. And it makes two, so every tablet makes a 24 ounce bottle of multi-surface cleaner.

Tiffany (29:08)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay, that's actually less than I thought. Because, yeah, because, I mean, it's still overpriced, but I mean, that one tablet would last you probably a long time.

Kat (29:21)
Yeah, that's not terrible.

Yeah,

I mean, but then they have all these flavors. Like why is it lemon? Fresh lemon scent. They don't tell you how the scent was made. Okay, anyway.

Tiffany (29:35)
yeah, the scents. ⁓ huh, that's,

yeah, we've discovered that fragrances are the problem for the most part.

Kat (29:45)
Yeah, a lot of them.

they're plant-based fresh scents. Okay.

Tiffany (29:48)
huh, that doesn't mean anything. Lemon is a plant.

Kat (29:53)
Yeah. So it's arsenic, right? Or anyway, okay, interesting.

Tiffany (29:54)
Yeah. Okay.

So the funniest thing that I came across was this company that is making plastics, apparently, that can bio-assimilate called Advantech Plastics. I'm just going to read from their website. This is what they say. Advantech Plastics is at the forefront of the move toward bio-assimilation. The last and final stage of bio-assimilation.

Kat (30:13)
Okay, yes. Okay.

Tiffany (30:24)
degradation when plastic polymers are consumed by microorganisms and simply cease to exist.

Kat (30:32)
Ta-da! Yeah, sure, no. Magically simply cease to exist. That's not how that works at all. Okay, cute.

Tiffany (30:41)
It's like, what?

Kat (30:42)
Who's your

PR person and how do they write this? I think I've heard about them. I've, cause I've heard stories of hope about maybe it wasn't the creation of the plastic, but it was creation of like micro phages or whatever that can eat plastic down to it's. ⁓

Tiffany (30:46)
I don't know.

Yeah, and

the good news is this might not be bullshit, but currently we don't know. So I'm gonna get into that. ⁓ It's, it's all, the world is full of possibilities, but where we are right now saying that this is what happens, that it ceases, the plastic ceases to exist is insane. It's also insane even if, because it doesn't, like that's still not what is

Kat (31:02)
Okay.

Right. OK.

Yes, I guess.

Yeah that... no. No.

Tiffany (31:28)
Okay, yeah.

Kat (31:29)
No, that's

not even the scientific process that they're talking about.

Tiffany (31:35)
like that would nice but so that journal environmental chemistry letters says because i was like okay is this real like is this true so i had to find like something science-based and this one was like pretty heavy science i linked it feel free to take a look ⁓ they say the effectiveness of the methods developed for microplastic remediation still remains unclear

Kat (32:03)
Okay.

Tiffany (32:03)
And that's in general. And this was written in 2025, so this year. So they also say there remains a lack of knowledge with respect to biotechnical interventions, which is what they're talking about, for microplastic removal. Most of genetically modified microbes have only been validated under lab conditions and reports on their efficiency and field conditions are largely lacking.

Kat (32:31)
Okay, that makes perfect sense.

Tiffany (32:33)
It does. And so we have...

All of these people saying, can certify you to be microplastic free and poof, they disappear based on science that isn't there yet. It may be in the future and there is promise. Yes! God, I was just like, it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating.

Kat (32:47)
It disappears.

This is another unfinished horse drawing. Yes.

Tiffany (33:06)
and so classic.

Ugh.

Kat (33:11)
It's

classic American marketing.

Tiffany (33:14)
Yeah, the fact that you can pay for a certification that's just not. Yes. Yeah.

Kat (33:19)
Magic. It's magic. Yeah.

Your house is certified ghost free. Boop! There's your gold star.

Tiffany (33:29)
I wonder if that exists, if some like, either ghost hunter.

Kat (33:31)
probably. If this is

a business we should probably start.

Tiffany (33:36)
Totally certified ghost free. I mean actually because I look like I said, I listen to a lot of ghost podcast They don't have a certification but there are people who like Have their whole business on going in and releasing the demons and they're well respected in the community and that's what they do. It's amazing

Kat (33:55)
Yeah.

I was a friend

of mine in college was like, Kat, we're gonna start a business. was like, what are we starting? She was like, pet psychic.

How would they prove us wrong? Yep, yep. I was like.

Tiffany (34:06)
It's not a bad idea.

People are obsessed with their pets. I was just listening to, what the hell was I listening to? Some podcast, cause that's all I listen to about, oh yeah, yeah. And that's why we drink. They were talking about dogs and they were saying they live in LA. There are places you can rent a thousand square feet for your dog to have an apartment while you're away to ease the guilt of boarding them. And I'm like,

Kat (34:13)
they really are.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (34:39)
If a dog can live in a bigger apartment than I lived in for most of my, all of my twenties, something's wrong here. And yet there's a homeless population, you know, something's wrong here. Something's real wrong.

Kat (34:46)
Yeah.

my god, okay, homeless people, Late

stage capitalism strikes again, yeah, for real.

Tiffany (34:58)
Yes.

And these apartments apparently have like televisions so the dog can be entertained. They have all this shit. I don't know all this shit. And I'm just like, this is crazy. No, seriously. Yeah, no, I'm not sure. Yeah, you could probably get a better dog border than a child provider, child care provider.

Kat (35:14)
childcare doesn't even have this.

Again, we talked about like,

it's easier to get take a dog to the vet than it is to take a person. So to the human, human vet, I mean, the doctor, what do we call them now? Yeah.

Tiffany (35:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Human

vet. Yeah, we weren't recording when we said that but that is what it feels like. We both, yeah, we both think this healthcare system is absolute garbage.

Kat (35:37)
Yeah, we were talking about that Yeah.

It's

traumatizing. Okay, anyway, microplastics, microplastics, microplastics.

Tiffany (35:46)
It is. Yes. Right, right, right, right. So

the good news is I'm on to cheap or free solutions. Solutions with a... More like... I feel like solutions is an over promise, but helpful hints. I don't know. Something more like things that... Things that researchers who research microplastic think help.

Kat (35:57)
A caveat?

Okay, yeah.

grains of hope.

Okay. Okay.

Tiffany (36:15)
and they would know. all

right, there's a bunch of cheap or free things that you can do and some paid ones that I'll talk about in a second, but basically you may have heard this already, but don't microwave plastic.

Kat (36:31)
I have heard that. Yep.

Tiffany (36:32)
yeah

like that's the number one thing that if you don't do that because basically three minutes in the microwave can release millions of microplastics

Kat (36:44)
Wow, it's just not something because it's the thing you don't see them because we always think I always thought of microplastics as like little pieces of plastic or like the little microbeads like you're talking about but it they're even smaller than that like you can inhale them they can get into your aviola or whatever it's called in your lungs and Lodge there they can be in your testicles testicles are not big sacks. They're little tubes, you know like

Tiffany (36:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

huh. huh. huh.

Yes.

Kat (37:09)
Okay, yeah. Yeah. That's not not microbeads. That would block that would block a vein or an artery if you had a microbead in your bloodstream, but they're just floating around in there.

Tiffany (37:10)
Yeah, like in your bloodstream. Yeah.

No. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, you don't see them. They're microscopic. least, I mean, some of them are a little bit bigger and you can see them.

Kat (37:23)
Okay, yikes.

Yeah. Yes, yes.

It's anything under five millimeters, which is actually pretty large comparatively, but.

Tiffany (37:31)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm trying to think of...

Like, what would that be the size of? yeah, yeah, I keep hitting this thing. That sounds right.

Kat (37:42)
That's like a sprinkle. feel like that's like like

sprinkles or jimmies as they call them in Philadelphia, apparently jimmies like jimmies on your ice cream. What are you talking about? Oh, sprinkles. We call them sprinkles in the rest of the world.

Tiffany (37:49)
Yes.

Yeah, I used to have, I used to work at a coffee shop, sandwich shop. I did work at all those, but ice cream place. And this guy came in asking for Jimmy's and I was like, what the hell are you saying?

Kat (38:08)
Go back to Pennsylvania.

Tiffany (38:11)
Okay, so a pencil top eraser.

Kat (38:15)
⁓

Tiffany (38:17)
I'm trying to think.

Kat (38:20)
That's five millimeters. Yes, I think like a sprinkle that because they look like microplastics. Yeah.

Tiffany (38:23)
Yeah, I think that's about, yeah,

like a small pearl, like really small. Yeah, but then most of them aren't that big. ⁓

Kat (38:28)
Okay, that's still pretty big.

Yeah. And those are the ones we

can filter out with like cheesecloth, you know.

Tiffany (38:38)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, those aren't necessarily the biggest problem. ⁓ So yes, so do not microwave plastic. That's one of the biggest ones. ⁓ When you can store your food in non-plastic containers and...

Kat (38:49)
Okay.

I have

glass containers that have plastic tops is the problem.

Tiffany (39:00)
Yeah,

I think that's less of a problem. I think it's more just like your food sloshing around in the plastic, especially hot food, which means eating less carry out.

Kat (39:03)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, definitely that. Well, yeah, and that's the thing, even if they give you like the cardboard, yeah, even if they give you the cardboard container carry out, it's coated in plastic. Yeah, which is so annoying. Yeah.

Tiffany (39:13)
Which is a problem. I don't like that.

It's covered, coated in plastic. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

not all, I feel like pizza boxes aren't, but then they always have the PFAS-laden parchment paper under it, so you can't fucking win. ⁓ So like, your hot ass miso soup is what I wrote in a plastic container ain't good for ya, which I just got last night. ⁓ So, this is just coming from me, but it might be better

Kat (39:27)
Yeah, most pizza bucks.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's like great. Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Tiffany (39:50)
I'm thinking it might be better to eat inside a restaurant off of a plate than to eat carryout.

Kat (39:54)
Or if they'll let you bring your own takeout container. That's like a big movement. Which is so you still have to... Yeah. But not for like that just for leftovers.

Tiffany (40:00)
Ding ding ding, yes. Have you ever done that?

Yes, okay. So you've never taken it to a... because I'm thinking like, yeah, like, you can't... well, some people do it. So I think it probably depends on... I'm sure there are health code issues, but some people... I think some restaurants will do it. ⁓ Because that was another... I had that same thing, is like, bring it, bring it with you and ask them to do that. But then it's like, bye bye online ordering, because you'll have to go in person.

Kat (40:13)
or places like can you fill that? Yeah, their health code issues.

Maybe.

Maybe call ahead, yeah.

Yeah, you can't get a

delivery. Which, okay, maybe, yeah, maybe we get too much delivery. Yeah. I mean, you just, well, yeah, it costs, it costs, it's like here too. Delivery is like a once in a lifetime thing for me. Even Sean is like, no, we'll, yes. Door dash. Yeah. They charge fees in the restaurants, charge more for it. And then, yeah, Sean is like, we will go pick it up. And I'm like, okay.

Tiffany (40:40)
Which is okay. I'm just saying. Yeah. I don't ever get delivery because I live in the boonies and it costs a hundred thousand dollars.

It's insane. Because it's always Uber Eats and they charge. my god.

Mm-hmm.

No, we're

the same. Yeah. Yeah, we could, but...

Kat (41:06)
Yeah. But also,

you could just buy a pizza oven like we did and never get take out again.

Tiffany (41:12)
Mm-hmm. That

is, yes. Yeah. ⁓ We have gotten pretty good about we'll eat out once a week. And usually, well, it depends. It depends on Charlie's mood. But ⁓ usually we go out to eat. But for a lot of people, they eat out all the time. So it really blows to have to think about this.

Kat (41:33)
Because they don't have time to cook. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (41:40)
I think about it, like I thought about it last night with my miso soup. was like, should I even order miso soup? Cause now I'm going to feel guilty for eating so many freaking micro microplastics. Right. That is true. That is true. Yeah. Yeah. And

Kat (41:47)
Well you're not doing it every day. Which helps. But yeah.

There's not a good

way to store soup, like when I make broth or soup, those little plastic soup containers that you get, like, they're so good for freezing it and stuff. Yeah, glass is not good for that.

Tiffany (42:05)
They're unfortunately perfect. Yeah. huh. I know.

Yeah, I use glass, but you definitely can't overfill it, which I've done so many times and like crack. I'm like, damn it. Yeah. But it does work if it's not overfilled. So there's hope. ⁓ So like I mentioned before, you can drink tap water, not bottled, not always possible, but options.

Kat (42:16)
Yes. Yep. Yep.

Tiffany (42:32)
This is interesting, eat more fruits and veggies because microplastics accumulate in animal fat.

Kat (42:39)
Make sense.

Tiffany (42:40)
So it sort of goes along with like our, you know, veganism. Is all of this better? Well, in terms of microplastics, yes. ⁓ Avoid nonstick and plastic cookware. ⁓

Kat (42:44)
Yeah.

Man, I can now get Sean on that train, but yeah. He loves non-stick, he has several non-stick pans. I'm like, first of all, I can't use any of my metal. You know, I hate them. I hate them. I have.

Tiffany (42:55)
The nonstick one.

I need to be scraping that shit. No, we yeah,

I actually watched this movie and it was like a not a documentary a movie with what's his name? One of my favorite actors because I think he's like the most handsome man and I can't think of what his damn name is.

Kat (43:21)
I can't wait to hear who this is.

We're having that kind of night. We're both kind of like, OK. ⁓

Tiffany (43:26)
It's about PFES. I know, I think I'm getting COVID. So anyway, this is why my

brain isn't functioning. What is his name? He was the Hulk.

Kat (43:34)
Bruce.

Mark Ruffalo. I love him. He's such a good person from what I know. I don't know him personally, but yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (43:38)
Yes, thank you, God.

I know he just seems like such a good dude. Who knows if he is or not, but

anyway, there was a movie that he was in about and he played a lawyer with like PFAS stuff. ⁓ and it was based on a true story. So it's horrifying. And we threw out all of our nonstick shit the day after. didn't throw it out. think you should actually, that would be, cause it's, it's based on a true story. ⁓ but also stainless steel.

Kat (44:00)
Maybe I'll get Sean to watch that.

Tiffany (44:12)
Have I talked to you about stainless steel? Joey opened my eyes to this. You can make it nonstick.

Kat (44:17)
Yes, you just have to get it hot enough. Yes.

Tiffany (44:19)
Exactly.

And it doesn't always work perfectly, but it works really surprisingly well. Exactly. And it's not hard. Yeah, totally. Just soak it for an hour and you're good. Exactly. Yeah. Get him to watch it, whatever movie it's called. It was a pretty good movie. So you can use foil instead of plastic wrap.

Kat (44:23)
No, but you can scrape it with a metal scraper when you or a metal scrub brush. Yeah, no. You can scour your pans. Yeah, baking soda.

Okay, I'll look it up.

Tiffany (44:50)
The hard thing about all of this is like use glass, not plastic, it's like we have already glass isn't so bad, but we've already kind of gone through so many products and figured out that like, yes, plastic is better in one way, it sure is worse or sorry, worse in one way, but it's a lot better than like wood or glass or whatever in a lot of other ways. So it's like, so tricky because you're going to be using more greenhouse gases.

if or like releasing them in the grand scheme of things. ⁓ Yeah, like Rayon. Yeah. So it's hard because it's like we can't live our lives only focused on this one thing.

Kat (45:23)
Stuff that's made from bamboo is still plastic, right? Yeah

Yeah.

Right. I mean, you. Right.

Tiffany (45:40)
But then like, what the F do we focus on?

Kat (45:45)
Harm reduction, right? That's the idea. Knowledgeable harm reduction, yeah, rather than perfection. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Tiffany (45:45)
Yeah. Do our best. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, totally. It's so easy to do even in like my day to day. I'm like, ⁓ my yogurt is in plastic and I'm feeding it to my daughter. It sucks. But like I ain't gonna make yogurt. I hear it's not that hard, but I'm not gonna do it. So not right now.

Kat (46:06)
That's hard. Yeah.

Right, and the, the... There's one brand

that sells in glass jars. Oui? Yeah, it's a lot more, I think. yeah. I used to keep the little cups and like store stuff in them and... They make little juice glasses. Yeah, can a holder's juice glasses? Yeah, they're great.

Tiffany (46:18)
⁓ and it costs how much? yeah, the Oui one. Yeah. Yeah. I have some of those. They're like candle holders.

Yeah, they're very expensive if I remember correctly. They were tasty, but it was more like a dessert. That wasn't like yogurt. It was like chocolate mousse with caramel swirl.

Kat (46:34)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I got like a strawberry or something but yeah I always want to be the person who eats yogurt and then I don't like the texture it's a problem yeah no just goopy

Tiffany (46:46)
OK. I'm sure that's really true.

Okay, I can see it. It can be kind of gritty. Yeah.

Yeah, it's got some... Yeah, I get that.

Kat (47:00)
It makes me gag.

I have the same problem with oatmeal and have the same problem with bananas. That they're goopy and they make me gag. Yeah, it's a weird thing. know, I know they're good for me.

Tiffany (47:04)
interesting that's fascinating i love all those things but

is what it is. also hate eggplant so it's like yeah I get it. Yeah it's also goopy. I don't like that texture.

Kat (47:13)
some days I just can't eat them anyway mm-hmm I don't love eggplant either yeah it is goopy

yeah which is weird cuz I like squash okay I don't know but not eggplant

Tiffany (47:24)
huh. Yeah,

I'm the same way. ⁓ Okay, another thing you can do is use a wet mop in your house regularly because microplastics cling to dust.

Kat (47:36)
Okay.

Tiffany (47:37)
Mm-hmm, which is a little

concerning because my house is so goddamn dusty, uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. know. Yeah, they combine or they, yeah, they bind with a lot of things actually. Another one, similarly, one study found that if you boil and filter your water, that you can remove up to 90 % of the microplastics in it. And I think the reason is because

Kat (47:41)
I know mine too. Okay. That's interesting. They like bind with dust.

I'll bet, yeah.

interesting.

Tiffany (48:06)
The microplastics get trapped. This is especially true for hard water, but it gets trapped in the hard water buildup. Yeah, in like your kettle or whatever. Isn't that weird?

Kat (48:12)
and like the calcium and the... Huh. ⁓

Fascinating. Okay.

Tiffany (48:21)
I

know, I know. In the filter.

Kat (48:23)
And it's not hot enough for them to melt,

I guess, probably. I don't know what the boiling point of plastic is. But yeah. Interesting. Okay.

Tiffany (48:30)
Yuck, I don't know either.

Yeah, so that was interesting. That came out pretty recently. ⁓ So I don't know. Like I said, it's a wild fricking West. It just feels like we're all kind of making it up. ⁓ Okay, so those were like free and, and or cheap solutions. There are also some spendy ones. So ⁓ add a, this is a cool one.

Kat (48:36)
Yeah.

Tiffany (49:00)
So in the eighties, washing machines used to have microfiber traps on built into the water part, like the wastewater. Yeah. So, you know, all that microfiber coming out of your, every time you wash your clothes would get trapped in that filter and you chucked it out instead of having it go into the water.

Kat (49:10)
Okay. ⁓ okay.

Tiffany (49:29)
And these can capture and they make these still. So you can add one of these. These are like post whatever. I didn't look them up. I should actually try to include a link for one that I find. ⁓ But it can capture like 87 % of those microfibers, which is certainly better than none. And if we all did that, like imagine the difference that would make. That's massive. ⁓ They took them off. So they used to have them in the eighties. They took them off because we have lint traps in the dryers.

Kat (49:31)
⁓ okay.

cool.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, they've brought well, I don't know. Hindsight 2020. Right. Yeah.

Tiffany (49:59)
Isn't that so annoying? I mean, we didn't know. We should have. We should have known, but we didn't know. Yeah.

Which is also like, doesn't it make sense to do it before it gets to the dryer? Because lint traps are so dangerous. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. I'm going to try it actually. ⁓

Kat (50:14)
I know everything sets on fire, right? Yeah, you'd think so. Okay.

I'm sure mine would just get clogged with dog hair like immediately so.

Tiffany (50:26)
Yes, I know. Yeah, your dogs have long fur. my God, and there's two of them. boy.

Kat (50:26)
a full Archie.

They do. Yeah.

But they only shed at certain times. So they didn't shed for the last two months, but Archie's coming back. We stopped having to vacuum every day.

Tiffany (50:36)
Okay. Okay. That's nice. Yeah.

Okay. Cause Ruby sheds most days. Definitely more in the spring. Yeah. ⁓ another, okay. Another expensive, potentially expensive, but long-term not so expensive strategy is to buy more quality clothes with natural fibers.

Kat (50:46)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they should done, but it's not like it was. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, I was going to say.

Tiffany (51:05)
and wear them for years. Like that's your plan years and years. Yes, or take them to somebody who knows. ⁓ Because clothes emit fewer microfibers over time. And I feel like that, like getting stuff at the thrift store would even kind of be the same.

Kat (51:07)
Yes. Learn to fix them. Yeah.

Okay, natural.

Yeah, because it's already, yeah. It's shedded, it's shed its plastics already.

Tiffany (51:27)
Yeah, so it's

Yeah, and it's funny because all of these solutions that I found for the most part have been like stuff that we want, like we as humans want to do anyway, at least, okay, that's not across the board, but anyone who's listening to the show probably, ⁓ we want to eat at home more, we want to cook for ourselves more, we want to drink out of reusable water bottles, we want to...

Kat (51:41)
Right.

Right. Yeah.

Tiffany (51:58)
keep our clothes for 10 years and not wear a bunch of plastic shit that's just gonna fall apart in one year. ⁓ So it's kind of funny that like all this stuff can also help. You can also seek out plastic free toiletries and cosmetics. I did not look this price up, but I imagine it's not cheap. Cause like, what do you do? Like, is there a glass mascara wand? Like I don't understand.

Kat (52:00)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It all dovetails. Yeah, yeah.

No.

I think so. I know that a lot of my lip glosses and stuff. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think some of the higher end, like I like wandered into Sephora on one of my trips recently. I was like, I need a lip gloss. I don't know. And they all are like in in glass now. But I don't know about the wands, but yeah, I mean, there's some options out there.

Tiffany (52:33)
Or would it bamboo maybe actually maybe it's

Mm-hmm.

Yes, that is true.

Yeah, but you're not going to get him at CVS probably. Yeah. Yeah. And like your nice ⁓ foundation will come in a glass jar.

Kat (52:56)
No, probably not.

Yes, I

yeah, the stuff I order from make.com comes in glass. Yeah. I don't wear makeup very often, so yeah, that yeah, it's. No, I talked about beauty counter, which doesn't exist anymore. It's now counter. Yeah, they went out of business. There's no counter. Yeah. So, but yeah, you can find me, you find it, but you're going to pay more. And again, like I don't I don't go to an office every day. I don't wear makeup every day.

Tiffany (53:09)
Okay. Is that like, yeah. Did you talk about them?

That's right, that's right. ⁓ Okay. interesting. Okay. Well.

Yeah.

Kat (53:32)
So that stuff is...

Tiffany (53:33)
Yeah, I mean, and it's

not like a problem to spend more on it. I should really, ⁓ cause I don't really wear that much either.

It's just something I don't have. I don't feel like I have the energy to research right now.

Kat (53:49)
That's thing

that I have trouble with since Beauty Counter went out of business. like, I don't know where to get this stuff from anymore. Make is a good option, I think. it's hard. A friend of mine helped launch them because they are originally supposed to help get microgrants for ⁓ small women-owned businesses in developing countries. So that was their... I don't know if they do that anymore.

Tiffany (53:53)
Yeah. Uh huh.

Okay, okay, I haven't heard of them.

cool.

Kat (54:19)
used to. But yeah, yeah, it's, I, it's also like, when you buy the stuff online and you can't test the color and then it comes in, it's like, my skin is this color all of a sudden, this orange shirt that I'm wearing and like, or just have like lines, you know, or like, I don't know what the eye shadow is going to look like or, you know, and I just look like a overwhelming. I hate it.

Tiffany (54:28)
I know.

Yeah

huh.

Yeah, and for me going into a place like Sephora is my personal hell. Yeah,

I do too.

Kat (54:46)
And there's always

some teenager who doesn't want to talk to you and doesn't know what she's she or he is talking about.

Tiffany (54:49)
Yes.

No.

Yeah, I once went into Victoria's Secret as a high schooler, I think, because I was like, these are the people who know what a bra is like. And everybody was sort of in their phase of like, get a custom bra because women empowerment. Like it was like a whole thing and it still is. ⁓ Like you should be, you deserve to be comfortable, whatever. I went in and if nobody's seen the YouTube, I do not have double D boobs, but they tried to tell me I did. And I was like, I was like,

Kat (54:59)
Yeah.

No, they have no idea.

Yeah.

Mm-mm. ⁓ wow.

Tiffany (55:24)
You guys are idiots. Like they pulled out the measuring tape and they're like, yup, double Ds I'm like, are you crazy?

Kat (55:26)
The measuring tape.

Well, I went, I thought I was a 36A and I went in and got measured and they're like, you're a 36C. And I'm like, I'm the founding member of the itty bitty titty committee. you, but that's what fits 34C's fit me. It was so funny. The woman who measured me, who was like 15 years younger than me, she puts the measuring tape around. I'm like looking at the top of her head cause she's so, so short, you know? And she's like, my God, you're so tiny. And I was like, I'm.

Tiffany (55:43)
You

Interesting.

Kat (56:00)
Literally looking at the top of your head. I am not tiny There is nothing about me that is tiny I five foot eight, you know, I'm not enormous, but I'm not tiny, you know a 34 inch rib cage that I I can wear a 36 inch band, know, that's not tiny I know it's not a 40 double D but like I am not There's I'm not little no one has ever Okay, someone has called me little as a joke, but no one has unironically called me little so

Tiffany (56:04)
What?

Right. Right. Right.

Kat (56:30)
And I was just looking at the top of her head like, sure, sure, I'm tiny.

Tiffany (56:33)
And like,

why did, like, she was, is that just what she says to everybody? Like a weird compliment?

Kat (56:35)
I think she was probably, she, I think it's probably, I think compared to the

other woman she had measured that day, I might've been ⁓ smaller. She's probably seeing a lot of 40 double G's or whatever, know, like women who just had kids who've got the honkers. I'm sorry, should, massive, mammary, yeah. I've never had children, so my boobs are not, they're, yeah, both my sisters and the nipples, the teacup.

Tiffany (56:44)
maybe, maybe.

Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah, massive milk sacks.

no, they get huge. It's crazy.

Kat (57:06)
teacup size nipples is anyway. OK, sorry. Sorry, I didn't mean to make this podcast about boobs. But anyway, yes, I know going into going into stores to try and find sustainable products from teenagers who are just working there. And first of all, don't care about you. Yeah, they hate you. Number one. Number two. They don't know.

Tiffany (57:06)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird.

who hate you.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, it's-

Kat (57:27)
They might

they might be interested in makeup, but they don't know you know

Tiffany (57:31)
Yeah,

I'm sure like even I don't know if Macy's isn't gonna have sustainable shit, but Oh really? I was thinking like because they're under frequented maybe they would be quiet and like kind of peaceful but

Kat (57:36)
my god, I've had the worst time at like Nordstrom or something.

I

had the worst time out when she didn't listen. She was just awful. Anyway, I'll never go back. I don't remember. Was it Sax or Nordstrom? Yeah.

Tiffany (57:49)
Okay, yeah. That's like an old school, yeah, like maybe

50 years ago that would have been the solution, but.

Kat (57:57)
Yeah, that's the thing.

They're just art. The service industry has been decimated and they don't pay people enough to do these things anymore and it's just not worth it for, you why work at Macy's when you can be an Instagram influencer and Sephora will pay you to try their makeup, you know, like not that everyone can do that, but I... And people are awful to service professionals. I totally, I totally get it. So anyway, yeah.

Tiffany (58:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

No, I know.

Mm-hmm.

Yep, okay. The last spendy tip is opt for peanut butter. This was just random. Peanut butter and beverages and glass jars, which I think inherently will be more expensive, but maybe that's not always the case. Just feels it.

Kat (58:38)
Okay, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and again, I don't eat a lot of peanut butter and I don't

I don't drink a lot of beverages that have plastic bottle, you know, I don't have soda all the time and stuff and that stuff's not. I'm okay. do. I do drink milk for my lattes and that's in plastic usually. So, and even the, even the, ⁓ organic stuff that comes in the paper half gallon has a plastic top. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (59:00)
Yeah. Right.

Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Lined. And it's also lined with like plastic, basically. Wax, plastic wax. ⁓

Yeah, so there's a bunch of stuff. There's also like more like bigger solutions that are happening. Tons of them. Not enough, probably, but there's a bunch of like random sort of hodgepodge people trying to work on solutions here.

So one of them is the Microfiber Consortium, which is a global commitment to work towards zero impact from fiber, specifically fiber fragmentation. Yeah. ⁓

Kat (59:53)
from clothing and okay, Textiles,

carpets, couches, I mean it's all over the place.

Tiffany (1:00:01)
clothes ⁓ So the problem with this is that it's like it's a global commitment and they want to work towards zero impact by 2030. But and then there's like companies like Gap, REI, Arcterix, all of these sort of like more not only outdoorsy brands but a bunch of outdoorsy brands have signed this. I don't actually I didn't see Patagonia but they may have. ⁓

But I looked at it, they have a roadmap for their plan, but by 2030, it's not gonna be zero impact. First off, it's 2025. ⁓ But the roadmap, the end result is a how-to guide on mitigation practices.

Kat (1:00:40)
Yeah.

So it's not even implementing mitigation practices. It's just finding them.

Tiffany (1:00:51)
suggesting,

which is a start, but calling it like, yeah, and calling it like zero impact by 2030. I mean, okay. It's framed, a commitment to work towards zero impact by 2030.

Kat (1:00:54)
Yeah, it'd be cool to have that yesterday. Yeah.

Right, we

plan to intend to work toward eventually coming to a solution by 2030. Okay.

Tiffany (1:01:13)
Yes.

Which to be fair, it's not necessarily REI that got us in this mess, but I don't know. Well It's not only them, I guess.

Kat (1:01:19)
No. Well, I don't know. Everyone bought into plastic as...

No, it's all corporations. Consumerism got us into this mess. And, you know.

Tiffany (1:01:27)
Yeah. Yes.

Yep. Yeah. The EU is adopting restrictions in 2023 they did on microplastics intentionally added to products. The, and the US in 20, well, when Biden was around, they,

Kat (1:01:51)
A million years ago? Yeah.

Tiffany (1:01:54)
Yeah, feels like it. set the goal of eliminating single use plastics from like all federal operations by 2035. Trump, I looked it up because I was like, surely Trump got rid of that. He reversed the version of that for federal parks specifically and the plastics straw ban. Yeah. So those are both gone. But it kind of sounds like the rest of it is still around. I don't.

Kat (1:02:01)
which was.

Ordinance, whatever, yeah.

Tiffany (1:02:24)
foresee much work being done getting us there, but yeah. Apparently they're hiring again. It's crazy. It's really a crazy fucking, It's a nut job psycho world. We do. And that's the thing. I think that's my whole thing with this entire topic, microplastics, is like,

Kat (1:02:27)
What federal employees are going to implement this, right? Yeah.

depending, some of them are, yeah. It's a roller coaster.

Yeah, we live in a circus. Yeah, an evil circus.

Tiffany (1:02:53)
Don't we have enough shit to worry about?

Kat (1:02:57)
Right. Yep.

Tiffany (1:03:02)
Like we were just talking about healthcare before we started recording.

Kat (1:03:04)
Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany (1:03:08)
Drumpf, I'm not even gonna say his name. Like, obviously that's a problem. Climate change. then microplastics. Housing, like, like name it. Cost of living. Employment opportunities. AI.

Kat (1:03:10)
Ahahahah

microplastics. Yeah.

Yeah, employment, being replaced by AI, like falling wages,

increasing, everything costs more. Inflation, everything costs more. Yes, and we have not gotten a 25 % pay raise, know, but everything at the grocery store is 25%. Yep, gonna be gone. Yeah. We can't retire. We have to work. And they're telling it like...

Tiffany (1:03:35)
Recession.

No. Social security, we were just talking about that.

Kat (1:03:51)
They took away disability, they're taking away disability benefits. Cause they're like, well these, maybe people aren't able bodied, but they should be able to take on desk jobs to work until they're 75 or whatever. And it's like, number one, no. But number two, ⁓ like there aren't desk jobs.

Tiffany (1:04:06)
my fucking god.

Also that. Yeah, where? Yeah.

Kat (1:04:19)
Are you going to hire them in the government? Like, that's the thing. They're

like, nobody wants to work. I'm like, nobody wants to hire and nobody wants to pay anyone. That's the problem. It's not people's. I mean, I know people who I know people personally who probably abuse disability benefits. do. ⁓ Who could probably, but it's also like, why does everyone have to fricking work all the time? And it's not like they're making millions and millions of dollars off this. They're, they're skirting by, you know,

Tiffany (1:04:25)
Yeah. Yep.

Right. Yeah. But.

Yes.

Kat (1:04:47)
They're not going on vacations to Paris. are not buying new cars. know, that taking disability benefits is not like, is not going to make you look a billionaire, you know? And if, if it does, you're doing something really, really, really wrong. But you know, it's like, I don't know. just have, okay. Rant, rant, rant, rant, rant, microplastics.

Tiffany (1:04:50)
Right. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, yeah,

no, but it's like, if we didn't have enough to think about. If we didn't have enough.

Kat (1:05:18)
But it really is, it is to me like leaded gasoline.

Of course, leaded gasoline is a little bit less nuanced than microplastics. ⁓ And again, it's smoking gun. It's very clear what effects leaded gasoline have on population, or lead in general. Benzene, we know this. Microplastics were kind of like, well, let's sit around and wait and find out. ⁓ But maybe in 15 years, it's going to be like, what microplastics? Wow, our ancestors, grandma has microplastics? We never. Maybe.

Tiffany (1:05:32)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (1:05:54)
I'd like to believe that. I'd like to. I wish I could right now. There's no cavalry coming.

Tiffany (1:05:55)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

do feel like there is a lot of research going into it, and I do feel hopeful about this whole stupid bio-assimilation thing. I just wish that they would be less wacky. Yeah. Less putting the cart before the horse.

Kat (1:06:11)
Magical about it. Yeah

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (1:06:19)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, but it's got a, it's got, it's bigger than like all everything we've discovered is bigger than just us. So, ⁓ but yeah, it's like, it's so frustrating to me, but I also want to remind all of us not to fall into a pit of despair and we can't micromanage every single thing we do every day, even though I do it sometimes, but it's like, that just isn't sustainable and it's also not healthy.

Kat (1:06:31)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (1:06:55)
The stress, know, stress

is also a massive factor in our health. So it's like, I don't know, do what we can use these tips that I presented as much as we can. It's not always possible. And then just, you know, keep, keep an ear out for the research and see, see what's up.

Kat (1:07:16)
I keep having this thing and I'm not a Christian and I don't, I'm an atheist, you know, surprise everyone, but ⁓ I keep hearing let go and let God. I don't know why, but for some reason that's been like, I'm like, all right, let go, let God.

Tiffany (1:07:31)
You know,

sometimes these phrases are helpful.

Kat (1:07:34)
Yeah, it means more to me than like, Jesus take the wheel or whatever, but, you know, you do what you can and you let it go. And if microplastics are what take me, I'll go so be it.

Tiffany (1:07:38)
Yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the thing I learned from my grandpa, he even died of cancer and it's stomach cancer. It's not a fun cancer, but you can like death doesn't have to be that scary, which I don't want to like go there, but like it really doesn't.

Kat (1:08:00)
Right. You can. No, you can meet it with dignity. Yeah.

Yeah. If our health care system would let you, but yeah, right.

Tiffany (1:08:11)
Fuck, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That little caveat. No, but I mean, it's true. It's like it's going to come for all of us. Charlie keeps asking me when I turn 100, am I going to die? And I'm like, I literally don't know how to answer this. This is one of those moments where you're like, frick, what do I say? I don't know.

Kat (1:08:24)
Mm-hmm.

No one can tell you that. Yeah.

⁓ I always try to turn around and be like, well, what do you think?

Tiffany (1:08:40)
Yeah, that never works with her. She's like, I don't know. Yeah. She's like, you tell me. ⁓ Yeah. But yeah, we try to be honest, but I'm like, maybe. Maybe. And I'm not going to tell her, well, you might be only 60 when you die. You might be, but yeah. You might be eaten by a wolf.

Kat (1:08:41)
weren't no she's like I want an answer yeah

Maybe you'll be eaten by a wolf. Yeah, you might be 45. Yeah. You

might be eaten by a wolf and then you can flap around like a duck inside.

like in the book.

Tiffany (1:09:10)
Yeah, we talked about that on our Patreon episode. Throwback.

Kat (1:09:12)
Yeah, Grimms Fairy Tales, yeah.

Tiffany (1:09:18)
That's awesome.

Kat (1:09:20)
That's gonna be

real funny to a small cohort of people that listen to our Patreon, but yeah. That's to you. That was a joke for you, so. Yeah. Okay. Woo!

Tiffany (1:09:23)
Yes, yes, yes. To me, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell her that. No, then she'll be like, my God. What?

Well, okay, sweet. So I'm not surprised. We only had four pages of notes, but this. Yeah, this went over. ⁓ I know, and I'm pretty sure, like I mentioned.

Kat (1:09:42)
And we talked forever. We're like an hour over our usual recording time. We have been chatty Cathys tonight.

Tiffany (1:09:52)
briefly I'm getting COVID. I feel better now so maybe it was just an exhaustion moment but yeah. Yeah I can't wait. Yeah delicious.

Kat (1:09:53)
Yeah. Okay. Well, go to bed. Yeah. Drink your microplastic tea and go to bed.

Speaking of, next week, I'm doing mushroom coffee. So it's a funny one.

Tiffany (1:10:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, I'm excited about this one, actually. I

know, the things you've told me so far, I'm like, huh? A say what? Yes.

Kat (1:10:16)
Yeah, I went and got mushroom coffee today and

sent some very funny texts to some very funny people about it. So I took pictures, I will post them on the Instagrams when we post the episode.

Tiffany (1:10:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, sadly we didn't our meetup in DC got canceled. we were going to, although you couldn't find any mushroom coffee in DC anyway, right?

Kat (1:10:30)
Yeah, it happens. Children.

I

probably could have if I just was not. If you had gone with me, I might have, but I was like, man, I want to walk around the National Mall. It was so hot this weekend. It was warm. It was was it's weird. This is not October. It feels like July outside.

Tiffany (1:10:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I know I get it.

I know, was wild. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was a little cooler today if that helps, but yeah. Yeah.

Kat (1:10:57)
⁓ lucky. Not here. But

hopefully soon.

Tiffany (1:11:01)
Alright, well, I'm excited for that one.

Kat (1:11:03)
Yeah, thank you.

Tiffany (1:11:05)
Yeah, so.

Kat (1:11:07)
Yeah, go find us on Patreon and listen to our Halloween episode if you haven't so you get the wolf duck joke. If nothing else.

Tiffany (1:11:13)
Yeah,

there you go. Yeah, it was a fun one. Cool. Well, I'm excited to slurp some mushroom coffee with you.

Kat (1:11:23)
Yeah,

maybe I'll find some for I don't know some other stuff anyway. All right. Thanks, Tiffany. Thanks for listening, everyone. Yep. Good night.

Tiffany (1:11:26)
Yeah. All right, sweet. All right. Have a good one. Yeah, thank you.

Good night.


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Kat Cox

Co-host
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Tiffany Verbeck

Co-host