Why Everyone Is Wrong About Vegetable Garden Costs

Sure, a vegetable garden can be expensive the first year. But hosts Kat and Tiff dive into vegetable garden costs over a span of a decade. Once you have your structures in place, what's your vegetable garden ROI typically look like? Join as they revisit this topic for a deeper dive into the reasons why — with the craziness of the world — you may want to consider becoming more self-sufficient. 

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Sources

• Blog of Gardening: https://www.bigblogofgardening.com/can-vegetable-garden-save-money-on-groceries/
• Farmers Almanac: https://www.almanac.com/how-save-vegetable-seeds
• Backyard Garden Lover: https://www.backyardgardenlover.com/9-vegetables-and-herbs-that-could-cut-your-grocery-bill-by-400-this-year/
• Food Forest Living: https://foodforestliving.com/31-ways-growing-vegetables-is-cheaper-than-buying-them/
• NPR: https://www.npr.org/2026/05/28/nx-s1-5836525/affordability-report-brookings-inflation-wages

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Transcript

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Kat (00:03)
Hey Tiffany. How's it going?

Tiffany (00:04)
Hi Kat

Kat (00:09)
Got a glass of water. I'm alright. gonna try not to bring up the haunting of the Victorian child that we talked about last week's episode. Which for us in our time we recorded five minutes ago, so it's still fresh in my mind. I'm still finishing the glass of wine I had in the last episode too, but this one is gonna be a little bit different than our normal episodes. so we covered gardening, like what we specifically asked in episode eighty five.

Tiffany (00:20)
Yeah, so we're still haunted.

Yeah.

Kat (00:38)
What is the cheapest food to garden yourself and should you bother? That was our question. And

Tiffany (00:45)
Mm. Yeah.

Do you remember when that came out? Like what month and year? 'Cause we don't actually like well we c I think actually the number episode does show up, but we don't like put it in the title. Okay. It doesn't matter.

Kat (00:50)
No. It was probably a year ago.

Mm-hmm. No, but it

yeah, but I you know, that was twenty episodes ago, so I'm gonna guess a year ago.

Tiffany (01:04)
Yeah.

Kat (01:08)
Okay, so grocery prices have only gone up since then. That was in our season with Groceries Are Too Damn Expensive. and I hate to be a paranoid doomsday prepper type, but we are this is we are recording this June third. we are facing a possible oil crisis that nobody's really talking about, due to the war in Iran. and it

Tiffany (01:12)
Mm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (01:37)
could make grocery store shelves insanely sparse is my concern. for a number of reasons. Yeah, shipping there's a lot of Nobody's really talking about it. not in the front of the news, but if you do a little bit of looking, people are concerned. there's a lot of concern over

Tiffany (01:44)
I never thought about that.

Yeah.

Kat (02:03)
oil reserves running out. And, you know, we're always like, in America we have plenty of our own oil. It's not that simple. There's a lot of complications, but it's also shipping from other countries. we get a lot of our produce throughout the year from other countries. It's just gonna increase prices. And

Tiffany (02:16)
Yeah.

Kat (02:26)
I'm concerned. I'm just gonna say that.

Tiffany (02:28)
Yeah.

Kat (02:29)
I'm gonna I'm gonna tell story. So w Y2K when Y2K was coming up, I was a senior in high school and my father, who worked for the government, basically was like, We need to be prepared in case something horrible happens. And something horrible didn't happen. but the reason why something horrible didn't happen was because a bunch of people were prepared and fixed the problem. behind the scenes where nobody saw the

Tiffany (02:31)
Yeah.

Kat (02:55)
eighty hour weeks they're putting in, yes. So like this is a problem that hopefully people with more power and brains than I have will fix at a bigger level. But I would say I am concerned about it on the level that my father was for Y two K. So I would rather be prepared than not. So

Tiffany (02:55)
really? Whoa.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (03:23)
If you haven't started a vegetable garden yet, you might consider it after this episode. Anyway, so you're probably if you're like, okay, w what should I grow? How do I do this? What is it gonna cost me? And is it worth it to try if I don't have like a farm devoted to growing vegetables? Like I can't move to Montana and start a farm of forty acres, right? Let's talk about it.

Tiffany (03:29)
Wow. Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Kat (03:54)
Welcome to greening up my act.

Alright, so that was a rambling, bambling, terrifying intro.

Tiffany (04:17)
No, I have s so many thoughts, so yeah.

Kat (04:19)
Okay, good. Okay. So this is probably I

we did a lot of the numbers in our episode eighty five on what's the cheapest vegetable to grow and should you bother so look that up if you really want to go into numbers crunching. so maybe this is gonna be a thoughts and feelings kind of episode, I think. but first as we do every episode, Tiffany, who are we?

Tiffany (04:30)
Mm.

Yeah.

Well, we are two women, like you said last time. Definitely that. Yes, that's true. with marketing backgrounds and and writing backgrounds and research backgrounds too. who what?

Kat (04:50)
I know. We're like women. Definitely women. Identify as women, yes.

And writing backgrounds. That could

Me less than you, I would say.

my research background is lesser than yours, but I went to school. I don't know. I like research.

Tiffany (05:11)
I disagree.

Well yeah, but you

Yeah, I was gonna say you have written like complicated shit before and you have to do research. Okay, no discredit yourself. Yes. Anywho's we yeah, so we my god, my brain just crapped out. Who the hell? No, okay. Yes.

Kat (05:20)
sure. Okay, fine. Fine

I know. We we care about we care about

climate change, we care about the environment. And yeah. We want we wanted to explore ways that we could personally make a difference on those fronts in our in our lives.

Tiffany (05:42)
Yeah.

Yes. And also I am newly laid off and I'm becoming a sustainable landscape designer. So I know more than I knew a year ago for sure. I'm learning and it's super fun. So yeah, especially I have a lot of thoughts from my class about vegetable garden, so I'm really excited.

Kat (06:04)
And way more than I know. Yeah, I'm just like, tell me more Yeah.

Okay, I

I wanna hear them. So all right. I'm going through our sources. I basically she you wrote me up like a synopsis about so Tiffany and I trade like years where one of us has a job and one of us doesn't. And so she did Yeah, basically. The day I started a new full time job, she got laid off from yeah.

Tiffany (06:35)
Yeah. On the same day, actually, which is so crazy.

Kat (06:46)
But so sh you had already pulled like a synopsis and research, and so I basically just use that. so we have something called the blog of gardening. Farmer's Almanac, which has become a favorite, I think. Backyard Garden Lover was another one you had. Food forest living, and then I am referencing an article from NPR. Yes. So what are we talking about tonight? So I just saw an NPR did a story on May twenty eighth about a

Tiffany (06:51)
Yes.

Okay.

Mm.

Nice. Awesome.

Kat (07:15)
The Brookings Institute Brookings Institution? Brookings Brookings Institute.

Tiffany (07:20)
Yeah, I used to work right next door.

Kat (07:22)
Okay. Well they just released a study from based on data from twenty twenty four that said forty five point five percent of American households could not pay for everyday expenses. In twenty twenty four. They found that that was the case. because f forty five point f forty five point five percent of American households could not afford necessities.

Tiffany (07:42)
Wait, repeat that. Forty five percent.

Kat (07:51)
could not make ends meet. So necessities are water, medicine, food, clothing. Like we're not even talking about like yes, and housing. We are not even talking about like an expensive family vacation or even like a road trip across the country. We're just talking about yeah, housing, food, water, medicine, clothing. Like had to choose

Tiffany (07:53)
Jesus.

Housing.

Right.

Damn.

Kat (08:20)
which of those they were going to pick over the other. They they did a whole bunch of research on like mostly how often did you skip a meal in your family. and and that was twenty twenty four. So that was two years ago. That was before the Iran war. That was before tariffs.

Tiffany (08:42)
It was before mass layoffs.

Kat (08:43)
Yes. It's bad. So you know, our data is lagging behind, but almost half of American families cannot afford day to day necessities. That's terrifying. so food is getting more and more expensive. And like I said, we have a a the possibility of an oil crisis within the next month. that could that's what I've been reading.

Tiffany (09:09)
Is that what people are saying?

I've heard I have heard through like not any research, just I've sort of seen very briefly that like oil prices could be bad very soon.

Kat (09:25)
Yeah, s

I r I try not to read up on it too much 'cause I'm like, okay, maybe this is The fact is that

It's complicated. Oil markets are complicated. But we are I think you could say not producing the amount of oil that would be necessary to keep our heads above water, basically, at this point. So when you start dipping into reserves, you start seeing oil prices jump really high. And

Tiffany (09:39)
Mm.

Okay.

Kat (10:04)
I don't know how much it is a barrel. I think a a hundred dollars a barrel is when you start getting four dollars and fifty cent gas across the US. They're expecting a hundred and fifty dollar barrels. Probably by the time this episode comes out. It might be too late by the time this episode comes out. We might not

B but again, it takes and then it you know, the markets take some time from that. So

Tiffany (10:25)
Mhm.

Which is funny for people listening, like two years from now to this, it might not feel like it matters, but it just it's it's not that

Kat (10:30)
Yeah.

Right. It this might be a

this might be a Y two K scare, right? That in two years we're like ha ha ha

Tiffany (10:39)
Maybe,

but even then it's like the threat is always gonna be there.

Kat (10:44)
Yes. And so this is the thing, like

Groceries have everybody's noticed. I mean, Sean every day my boyfriend goes to the grocery store and he's like, Peppers were eighty-nine cents each. They're usually forty five s I mean, that's true. And you know, we only need one or two peppers. We're spending a buck fifty. But if you got a family of five and you're buying vegetables, like vegetables should be the cheapest thing on your docket. The thing is, vegetables are twice as expensive. Meat is

Tiffany (11:00)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (11:16)
more than twice as expensive. So where you can cut your bill, you're you're probably it's probably worth looking into that. you're obviously n I don't think any of our listeners is going to buy a cattle farm and start their own beef manufacturing process. You might do chickens, we talked about chickens. I still don't think you're most of our listeners are going to be butchering their own chickens.

Tiffany (11:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I didn't want to.

Kat (11:45)
You might be eating eggs, but you're probably not gonna be eating the chickens. So one or two. Yes, you you can.

Tiffany (11:45)
Probably not.

Maybe.

think you can take them. Maybe maybe that's not ethical

to not do it yourself, but anyway.

Kat (11:58)
No,

I mean you don't have a to takes butchering an animal is is not something that just right. I need yes, so it it sorry, vegan friends, but if you are going to butcher animals, it's probably worth it to take them to a professional to do it. But I don't know if that's gonna cost you I didn't do the research on that. We're talking about vegetables tonight. So our big questions tonight are less about

Tiffany (12:03)
You don't want to do it wrong.

Yeah.

Kat (12:27)
How homegrown vegetables can impact the environment. We've talked about shipping costs and all those things. And they do taste better. They always taste better than what you're gonna get at the grocery store. But we're asking, at what point is it worthwhile to grow your own food? And what are some tips for making growing food more affordable? That's basically what we're gonna talk about. Okay.

Tiffany (12:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Kat (12:54)
So it's really hard to tell you that growing your own vegetables will be cheaper than buying them from the store because there are so many caveats. you have to think of vegetable and fruit gardening as a return on investment over time, because there are obviously startup costs. So Food Forest Living quoted the National Gardening Association as saying that for every one square foot of garden you have, you will save about a dollar in groceries if you spend less than $100 in upfront costs.

Tiffany (13:01)
Mm.

Yes.

Kat (13:24)
Which is some complicated math. Basically, if you have a ten by ten garden bed, right? If you can plant that full of stuff for less than a hundred dollars, you will save a dollar per square foot, right? So basically a ten by ten garden bed is where you start seeing return on investment. But

Tiffany (13:26)
Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Okay.

Kat (13:54)
That also depends on what you plant. Are you actually eating them? how much is water how you know, what's your rain yes, does it grow there? You know? So a hundred square foot of garden space is is probably where you're if you can spend less than a hundred dollars to set it up, you will make money back in your first year. First year.

Tiffany (13:56)
Mm.

Does it grow?

Kat (14:20)
All gardening, if you if you do it right, will give you a return on investment over time, possibly up to three thousand dollars by year ten.

Tiffany (14:31)
Okay.

Kat (14:33)
But the math is so complicated. So the question is how do you keep upfront costs low, right? Time and energy. That's the issue. A big time saver, for instance, is buying plants that are seedlings and already have roots and shoots, right? Rather than planting your own seeds. It takes time and knowledge and energy to grow plants from seed. But seedlings cost

Tiffany (14:35)
Mm.

Yeah.

Kat (15:01)
Like a lot more. So I just looked it up. You can get a packet of Roma tomato seeds for two dollars, right? That gives you anywhere from ten to fifty plants if you can grow them. Or you can buy a San Marzano Roma tomato plant from the local grocery store in a pot for about ten bucks.

Tiffany (15:07)
Mm.

Right.

Kat (15:20)
Starting from seeds means you have to start earlier for the plants to be ready to plant during tomato season. But if you just on a whim decide you want to plant tomatoes, you can just waltz over to AGB here in Texas and see what's for sale, buy that and plant it and grow tomatoes. So you don't have to you're like, it's tomato season, they have tomato plants outside. So it's you can save, you know

Tiffany (15:26)
Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Kat (15:50)
I don't even know.

If you bought ten already seeded Roma tomato plants, it would cost you two hundred dollars, right? Or a hundred ten times ten. A hundred dollars. Or you could grow ten from a seed bag for two dollars. So you can save yourself ninety-eight dollars by, you know, seeding your own plants, but do you have the time to do that and the energy to do that? So other upfront costs include the soil, if you don't already have it.

Tiffany (16:04)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Kat (16:22)
materials for a raised bed or pots. You're gonna need tomato cages, things like that.

Tiffany (16:28)
Or rose.

Kat (16:31)
Or rose, yes.

Tiffany (16:33)
So can I tell you about my garden?

Kat (16:35)
Yeah,

please, dish.

Tiffany (16:38)
So this is actually very funny timing because just over the weekend, so like four days ago, I decided to plant a fucket garden is what I'm calling it.

Kat (16:49)
nice, okay.

Tell us about your fucking garden. This is definitely gonna get flagged on YouTube anyway.

Tiffany (16:53)
Okay, so

yeah. Does YouTube care? Well, as long as you mark it.

Kat (17:00)
They

they just something about community standards just came up, so I'm not I don't even know what that means. Anyway. My fricket garden. Okay. Maybe Riverside will we have a nanny editor in our recording software that I might just do it for. I know I know Spotify automatically bleeps it

Tiffany (17:06)
frick. Okay. My fricket garden then.

Yeah.

Yeah. Who knows?

Okay, that's interesting. I know some podcasts that do that. it's not a bad idea. But anyways, so yes, my efficacarden, we'll call it that. So I was out planning to use these raised bed supplies that I already have. That was my plan. And I had some probably enough, maybe enough, I don't know, potting soil that I had bought.

Kat (17:36)
Okay, okay.

Tiffany (17:55)
actually it was dirt and compost, and I was just gonna mix it together. It's cheaper. Yeah. and so anyway, I was out there and I had been wanting to do rows. Like r row planting. Because I'd heard about it. I'd heard it's easier, I've heard it's cheaper, blah blah blah blah blah. And I was thinking like, I need to do all this research. I don't know how, I've never done it before, I don't know what I'm doing, blah blah blah.

Kat (17:57)
Okay, fair. Yeah. Potting soil, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (18:22)
But I had already put a bunch of tarps down and like cleared out this space so killed off all the grass. So I had all the space and I was out there and I was like fuck it. I was like, F it, you know? I'm just gonna do it. So I just dug three long rows with my stupid shovel. Because I was like, I need a tiller. I gotta borrow the tiller for my brother in law, blah blah blah blah.

yeah, so I just dug him with my stupid shovel and shoveled him around a little bit and then I had compost, so I threw some compost on it and I definitely did it wrong.

Kat (18:44)
You just dug them yourself. You you didn't get the tiller.

Right.

Tiffany (18:59)
But it's okay. So

I dug them out and I was going off of pure memory because I was like, if I have to research any of this, I'm not gonna do it. I'm just not gonna do it. Yeah. So I dug them out and I planted in the low part. And you're supposed to plant in the high part, which hindsight is obvious, but

Kat (19:06)
No. Hundred percent you could no. Yeah.

It may I but I I get it. 'Cause you d it's a I get it. It's a hole, right? Okay.

Tiffany (19:23)
Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

And I like, Well the water will drain down so it'll s I said a hundred percent. It's probably going to. If if it rains, I'm screwed.

Kat (19:30)
Wash it away down the stream. Yeah. But

when you're tired no, it makes sense to me.

Tiffany (19:38)
Yeah. And so I was just like, you know what? Screw it. And so but I did it and it looks awesome. I mean, it looks so cool and it's exciting. And it's sort of like because I have this foundation, even if it's a wrong foundation, I'm like, the possibilities feel endless now and I'm like, Yay, this is awesome.

Kat (19:41)
Mm-hmm.

Right. You can do anything from here. I did

it wrong once and no one died. Right? Yeah.

Tiffany (20:00)
Exactly. Exactly. And

I was in my head I was like, it's too late 'cause it was like end of May, whatever and I was like, Ugh But that's not really true. Like all this stuff a lot of the stuff I planted said one of the things, I can't remember which at this moment in time, but it said like starting in June. So you can have a garden like corn is probably gonna grow. I tried corn. I'm trying corn, I'm trying squash, beans, three sisters. I'm I'm just trying. I'm just trying.

Kat (20:07)
Right.

Right.

Tiffany (20:29)
So

Kat (20:29)
Well and and the the other thing is that like with we have warmer summers now. So there's a longer growing season. So like all of the old knowledge about like

Tiffany (20:37)
Yes.

Kat (20:41)
Phew, we had ble we we have basil plants right now that are going to seed that we planted last May. They're a more than a year old. And we're just like, shoot, dude, let and we're gonna try to seed you know, but it's like they lasted the whole winter. They're supposed to die in like September. And we're like, yeah, we have basil trees now. But I mean that's the thing. You can plant your tomatoes in late May.

Tiffany (20:59)
That's crazy. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.

Kat (21:11)
now and still get fruit in September, you know, because of the way but yeah, the times have changed. So so basically what I was saying is like startup costs, you do them once. If you do things right, you do them once. The the question is do you value gardening? That's the question.

Tiffany (21:15)
Yeah. You're not gonna get as much maybe, but

Yeah.

Mm mm.

Kat (21:38)
Are you willing to prioritize

Tiffany (21:38)
Yeah.

Kat (21:39)
it? And I feel like in right now, when it's you can still maybe buy a can of beans, you know, off the shelf relatively easily. We don't value gardening.

it i the monetary investment for gardening can take a while to come back. The reason people garden, I mean, beyond the fact that it tastes better, you feel good about yourself, but there is something about being attached to the soil in a way that Americans especially have lost in the past hundred and fifty years. The value of gardening is not just how many tomatoes you get back, you know. It's

Tiffany (22:18)
Mm.

Kat (22:30)
Turning off your phone and frigging digging a trench and trying it out, you know, and getting dirt under your nails. Like

Tiffany (22:37)
Yeah,

which is actually proven to be healthy.

Kat (22:39)
Yes. And the thing the the sources that you set me up with, there is not a single gardener who says that gardening is not worth it once they do it. And the messier you make it and the stupider you are about it, the better it is, right? Your experiment paid off. I like I propagated rosemary. We had we had bought a like thing of it from the grocery store and we had some left and I like, I'll just put it in some water, put it in some water.

Tiffany (22:47)
Mm.

Yes.

and that's so cool.

Kat (23:09)
Change the water every week. It rooted. I put it in soil. It's growing. That's apparently really hard to do. If I had looked that up, I would I would have failed because I would have been thinking about it too much. But I was just like, yeah, we have some. 100%. I am growing amaryllis from seed. Just dropped the seeds in some water. They're sprouting. They're gonna turn into plants. You know, not that I can eat those well, maybe you could eat amaryllis eventually, but

Tiffany (23:22)
And you may not have even tried it.

Kat (23:39)
You know, just like fuck around and find out with gardening. And that is the best gardening. And do it now so that when you need it, when our economy collapses, you know, just plant something.

Tiffany (23:52)
Yeah. And

yeah. And that's the thing. It's like I for I've been wanting to do this for like at least two years and I've just talked myself out of it. That's why I was just like, F it.

Kat (24:01)
Yeah, me too. It's because it

it is again, it's the Dunning Krueger thing, right? Once you when you start a project, you are excited about it and if you do something well, like a little thing well, you're like, I'm really good at this. The more you learn about it, the more you recognize you don't know. And that's where imposter syndrome comes in and where you start feeling like you can't do it. And that's

Tiffany (24:21)
Yes.

Kat (24:28)
I when you and I talk in these podcasts about gardening, 'cause you know obviously a lot more than I do, I hear you talk and I'm like, I'm never gonna garden.

Tiffany (24:37)
I hope that's not what I

Kat (24:38)
Well no no no that's not that's that's this this is this little insecure brain I have. But the thing is just like plant what you can when you can and you will not regret it. Basically. That's there is not a single gardener who regrets that they gardened. Well, except the ones that try to luxury garden maybe and kinda F it up, but Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany (24:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, or the people who get in over their head, which definitely happens.

but yeah, I totally agree. Like I will say I had one of the best days with my daughter that I've ever had because she was out there for like three hours helping me. And I did well, she kinda helped me dig the rose. She was out there, you know. She was kinda, you know, not helpful, but yeah. But

Kat (25:18)
man.

Right. Yeah. Sh she's like five, yeah.

Tiffany (25:29)
We did all that and then she was so excited to see what every seed looked like. She wanted to see each one. What's that one look like? And she's like, she helped me plant the seeds. She helped me with the whole damn thing. And it was so special and so cool.

Kat (25:34)
yeah.

Yeah.

And not something you can get by taking your kid to a movie or you know, like this is it's not the same. There is something so inexplicably I'm sorry, all of my desk items are but there's something so inexplicably human about that, you know, that like and we forget. It's so simple.

Tiffany (25:51)
No Yeah.

Moving.

Yes. Yeah and it

It is. I have a helicopter flying over, but we're gonna ignore that.

Kat (26:13)
I know. We're we're

having a great night tonight. Okay. I think this is a good time to take a break and then we're gonna look at some ideas for making the garden worth the investment. All right. While while the ghetto bird goes over. I don't know if we call it the ghetto bird in Albuquerque. I don't know. Okay. All right.

Tiffany (26:18)
Okay, perfect.

Okay. Awesome. Yes.

Yeah, I've never heard that.

Okay.

I think it's gone. You know, I am opening my windows because I this is a new thing. I didn't really open my windows last year. But I'm like, the weather's so nice. I'm opening my windows to save money far partially, but also just to have fresh fresh freaking air.

Kat (26:50)
Okay, cool.

Feds, they're coming for you.

Yeah.

it's just so nice to open your windows. I there's so few times here in Texas that we can do it.

Tiffany (27:09)
It is

Kat (27:15)
And also my it's really hard to open my front window so I can get a cross breeze between the front and the back. And there's a hole in the screen and then I get mosquitoes. So I love open and also I'm afraid to leave my window in my bedroom open at night because somebody could break in, but I don't know.

Tiffany (27:21)
Mm. Okay.

Ugh, yeah.

Joe's the same way, even though we live in the country, he's like, I can't do it. I'm too scared. Yeah. Yeah. So do we, yeah.

Kat (27:37)
It's terrifying. Living I s especially 'cause I live on the first floor. And I you know. I

have two barking dogs and a man friend, and I'm still like, Nope. No open windows overnight, my friend. But yeah. Anyway, so ways ways to save money on those setup costs to get your vegetable garden going. And I think you're gonna talk about this next year. Perennial vegetables? Or next week. Okay. So maybe I won't

Tiffany (27:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I get it.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, I am. Yeah.

Kat (28:06)
go into this too much because you're gonna talk about it next week. But perennials are or or plants are plants that come back or stay verdant all the time. So like rosemary does not die. You can have it at all times. That is a great herb to plant and use, especially if you use herbs.

Tiffany (28:08)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kat (28:31)
But the issue I you can't live on basil, rosemary, or thyme alone. That's the thing. It might be the best return on investment if you use herbs a lot is to plant your own, but you can't. So some perennials that come up are like asparagus, garlic, and berries. So berries, especially, apparently have a pretty good return on investment. It takes them two, three years to be really worth it. But

Tiffany (28:38)
What do you mean?

Yeah.

Kat (29:00)
They'll come back every year if you keep watering them and taking care of them. Berries are so freaking expensive. Yes. So a raspberry or blackberry bush, if you have toddlers especially, they freaking love berries. So they will save you hundreds of dollars throughout the summer as they fruit. So that is that is worth planting if you can in in your zone. Fruit trees also takes three to five years to fruit.

Tiffany (29:05)
Yes, tell me about it.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kat (29:27)
And depending on where you live, they could require more watering. But you can freeze or can apples, cherries, peaches, etcetera.

Tiffany (29:35)
I don't have any fruit trees and I've never ventured into that and it's because I'm nervous about it. It's like exactly what we were talking about. Do you have any? You've talked about your fig.

Kat (29:40)
Yeah. Yeah. I have

I have a fig tree and I have a pomegranate tree that this year, it's this third year. It is so full of fruit. And it had I think they had two last year and neither of them was edible, like

Tiffany (29:58)
Okay.

Kat (29:59)
Sean Okay, I don't like pomegranate.

Tiffany (30:04)
funny that you have the tree. Okay.

Kat (30:04)
Neither does Sean.

I wanted to plant something that it's a native native to Texas tree. so we've got this Texas pomegranate tree that Sean hates. But I'm like, you know what? Maybe this year for Christmas everybody gets pomegranates. You know? and just because I don't like pomegranates doesn't mean that other people don't or Yeah, see, so you might get you might get some.

Tiffany (30:09)
Very cool.

Mm-hmm. I love pomegranate. I'm a huge fan. Send me one.

Kat (30:34)
and

and also like if the the entire world collapses I can trade things for pomegranates, you know, on some level. Not that I'm gonna be sitting in my front yard with a shotgun protecting my pomegranate tree, which is something to consider also. not really. I don't You guys, I have had a Cassandra problem in the past two years where I have predicted things would come true that have come true that everybody was like that can't possibly be true. I yes.

Tiffany (30:48)
Mm.

Really?

god. Like what?

Kat (31:04)
My mother dying.

Tiffany (31:07)
yeah, we talked about that.

Kat (31:08)
Yeah.

Trump getting elected. I mean, I think looking back, most people are like, Yeah, you were kinda delusional if you didn't think Trump was but there are l lot of people I knew who are like, There's no way he's gonna win.

Tiffany (31:12)
Mm.

Yeah.

most people. And I was like the only one also being like, I live in the burbs and like there's so many Trump signs. Yeah. There's like only Trump signs.

Kat (31:26)
It's happening. It's happening. Yeah.

I hope I'm not right about this oil crisis being like a major problem.

Tiffany (31:35)
Yeah. Well, I was gonna

say this is not gonna help anybody's mood, but they're on top of an oil crisis, I've read some about a an impending food crisis.

Kat (31:39)
Mm-hmm. No.

This is it. Exactly. It's a number of things. People can't afford food. The tariffs made it hard for farmers to get fertilizer that they needed. So crops are in and this is like you can't find this news. Also, we've gutted newsrooms to the point that the only thing they can report on is Trump's last tweet. So we don't even have people reporting on this. You can't even find this in the news. You know, like yeah

Tiffany (31:59)
Mm.

Yes.

And climate change because it is changing growing seasons and

Kat (32:27)
We are s

supposed to have a pretty wicked El Nino this year, which is gonna mean flooding in some places and drought and fire in others. So

Tiffany (32:32)
Yes.

Uh-huh. Yeah.

Kat (32:42)
Grow some tomatoes on your back patio.

Tiffany (32:42)
Yeah, I mean I've already like last year

I've already seen I think it was green peppers. I've already seen signs. I mean we saw it with the avian flu with eggs. You're gonna see that's gonna happen more often. And there's gonna be signs that'll say like there's a shortage.

Kat (32:56)
You are

We can't get

You're not gonna get bananas. It's y you know, so I and and maybe it'll be kinda like during COVID when

Tiffany (33:02)
Mm.

Kat (33:11)
If you're of a certain socioeconomic class, you can afford groceries that are different, you know, you'll just spend a dollar or two more. But it might not be a bad idea to have some sustenance around you that you can rely on, you know. I I don't know. I

Tiffany (33:35)
I just planted a bunch of potatoes and potatoes are one of the easiest things to grow. And they're also very good for you.

Kat (33:38)
Yes. Okay, so that's something that

so yes, the hu huge vitamin potential. People have like shad on potatoes. So it's just carbs. No, they have like the highest vitamin capacity out of any and they're super easy to grow. I s I I think did I send it to you? I saw a guy in England who's like, if you've got some overgrown potatoes that are like, you know, sprouting their tubers out

Tiffany (33:47)
Yes.

Mm.

Kat (34:05)
And you have a bunch of NPR tote bags, you know, because every time you subscribe to something, they send you a tote bag. He's like, take one of your overgrown potatoes, cut it in half, fill a cotton tote bag with soil, three-quarters of the way, tamp it down a little, put the ends of the potato in, throw some soil over the top, tamp it down a little, put it out in your front patio where it's sunny, or hang it on a nail on your

Tiffany (34:10)
Yes.

Mm.

Kat (34:35)
Back on. Because you know, everybody has too many tote bags and maybe some overgrown potatoes. You can just grow potatoes like that. So one of the things a lot of people are like, don't bother growing potatoes, they're cheap. Friggin' grow potatoes. Like in an apocalypse No. Any any scent you can save, potatoes are super easy to grow and you don't need seeds to do it. so like prolific producers.

Tiffany (34:39)
Yes.

Mm.

Yeah, they're not that cheap anymore.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (35:05)
are another thing that's worth growing. One of the reasons everybody grows tomatoes is because they produce. Like, if you do it right, you are gonna get so many tomatoes. Same with squash, you know.

Tiffany (35:19)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (35:22)
You you probably have neighbors at some point begging you to take their zucchini squash. Maybe that won't happen this year 'cause everybody's like, no, that's my zucchini squash. Grow those prolific producers. They're easy to produce. You can can them. You can freeze freezing them is probably safer. Canning we have an episode on canning. It takes canning can be work, but freeze you can you can freeze it. I zucchini gets mushy. It it makes a good base for soups. Zucchini bread. Even if it's mushy, you can

Tiffany (35:26)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm.

Make banana bread, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kat (35:51)
use it for vitamins later, you know. So

Tiffany (35:53)
Yeah.

I said banana bread, you know what mean.

Kat (35:56)
Zucchini banana

b yeah, we're gonna have bananas anymore, Tiffany. Quit with your luxury fruits.

Tiffany (35:59)
Yeah, I forgot. I

forgot.

Kat (36:04)
Okay, another thing you can do is save seats. So one of the reasons that gardening over time gets less expensive is you can just keep a couple items of your food stock. This table is like okay, Harry Vetch is playing with like literally I have this split table and it's like sinking down. And I'm like, my mic my microphone is like in my lap. I'm like

Tiffany (36:06)
Yes.

I don't it's so

You're seeing everything move. I'm like, what is happening?

Kat (36:32)
I don't know

Harry Vetch is here. I need to tighten some What is happening, Harry? Leave me alone. It's because I made fun of him in the last episode. My dog My dog's not gonna sleep tonight. Harry Vetch is gonna torture her. Okay, so

Tiffany (36:40)
Sorry, Harry. Right. Just pace.

Kat (36:49)
Okay. You keep a couple of your vegetables after the or fruits after the harvest and you get the seeds to plant the next year. This is great because if you really liked the vegetable, you'll get it again. But it's not as simple as just saving a tomato. Okay, there's a couple things. The Farmer's Almanac article that we link in here has some really good detailed instructions. So read that before the internet goes out. But here are some things to keep in I'm just gonna pretend we're going into Mad Max after this. I'm like, this is the end of the world.

Tiffany (37:08)
Okay.

You

never know. I mean, honestly, preppers sound so much less crazy now. Like just they sound smart. Anyway. They're not wrong, yeah.

Kat (37:28)
They're right. It's they're not

wrong. Exactly. It maybe they're not I you know

Tiffany (37:35)
Some of it can be extreme, like the guns and whatnot, but hey, what do you who knows, dude? Maybe I'll need some guns. Yeah.

Kat (37:37)
It can. Yes. Grow a garden. The apocalypse

doesn't happen all at once. It happens slowly and it starts with there's no bananas in the grocery store or what is it? A a friend of mine before he logged off of Facebook forever because Facebook is the devil. He posted an article that was like all of the snow crabs in Alaska have disappeared. He's like, I can't think of a better way to start a dystopian novel.

Tiffany (37:46)
Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Kat (38:06)
All of the snow crabs disappeared.

So it's happening. We're living through the apocalypse. It's just in a lot more slow motion than we all thought it would be. Okay, so some tips. You need an heirloom vegetable or open pollinated type to save the seeds properly and get the best results. Because hybrids, which are most of what you get in the grocery store, they have been inbred for specific characteristics.

Tiffany (38:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kat (38:34)
So if you plant seeds from a hybrid fruit or vegetable, you don't know which characteristics you're going to get the next year.

Tiffany (38:42)
okay.

Kat (38:42)
So Unpredictable. Might still work. Might. Might not. It you don't know if it's gonna be delicious and red and ripe or if it's gonna be like

Tiffany (38:45)
It will be a mutant tomato.

Kat (38:55)
Hardy and wooden because it's got, you know, all the characteristics. Yeah. So heirloom heirloom I'm I'm sorry, I can hear my boyfriend talking in the kitchen on the phone, but

Tiffany (38:57)
Right, right, right, right. So interesting. Okay. I didn't know that.

It's fine. I don't hear him.

Kat (39:08)
Where you plant matters. So cross pollination can cause a difference in flavor. Mostly for vegetables that have a high water quality or content from what I can tell. So this is what happens when insects when the the vegetables or fruits flower, insects go from one plant to the next. And if they're all close together, they will mix their things. So cucumbers, peppers, melons, and squash k can affect each other's flavor. So if you don't want your

Tiffany (39:10)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (39:38)
peppers or your melons to taste like squash or, you know like pepper flavored melons. It

Tiffany (39:42)
Wow.

All

mine are right next to each other, so we'll see how it goes. Yeah.

Kat (39:48)
Let me know. If I mean maybe

that could be a delicious cucumber. It's like a you know, cucumber melon's a thing, right? So maybe that's why. the best seeds to save are tomatoes, peas, peppers, and beans. They are annual crops. You have to plant them every year. But these are the best ones to save because they are the easiest ones to plant the next year.

Tiffany (39:52)
Yeah, it's like a new species. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. That makes sense.

Kat (40:13)
you can try to keep seeds from biennial crops, like cabbages, beets, carrots, cauliflower, onions, and turnips, but they take two years to set seed and they're more complicated.

Tiffany (40:22)
Okay.

Kat (40:25)
S so, okay. Tomato and cucumber seeds have to be fermented to remove a gel before you can save the seeds. Peppers are freaking easy. You just open the peppers, scrape the seeds off onto a plate or a screen, let them dry. Beans and peas need about six weeks of air drying. You have to pick brown pods from the vines or remove the seeds. Watermelon seeds just

Tiffany (40:31)
Yes.

very cool.

I didn't I don't know anything about seed saving, so this is really interesting.

Kat (40:48)
Yeah, so

yeah, the Farmer's Albanic article is pretty good. Watermelon seeds just need to be rinsed off well so you don't have any of the fruit or the pulp left on them. After you've washed them and rubbed you just rub them in your hands to get the membrane off. You put them in a glass of water, the good seeds will sink. You scoop the bad seeds off that are floating, give the good seeds a rinse, and let them dry. Squash and pumpkin seeds need to be thoroughly rinsed to remove any membrane and then set aside to dry.

Tiffany (40:51)
Yeah.

Okay. Whoa cool.

Nice.

Kat (41:15)
And

to store seeds, smaller seeds can be stored in a washed out like pill bottle, which is cool. Larger seeds and beans work great in like Pringles canisters. Apparently. Well, why you know, no clean it out all. you can also freeze seeds to make them viable for long.

Tiffany (41:20)
Okay. Okay.

Okay. Well salty. Salty sweet. Just kidding.

interesting.

Kat (41:35)
So tomato seeds that are dried properly can last five years. S squash seeds last not quite as long. If you freeze them, it can they can last forty years.

Tiffany (41:39)
what?

What?

Kat (41:48)
Apparently. Magic. I d

Tiffany (41:51)
How long

do squash seeds last? 'Cause I always assumed it was like a one year

Kat (41:53)
Less than

five years, probably a year, yeah. I would say.

Tiffany (41:57)
Okay, 'cause I had some old ones that I threw away thinking that this is not gonna be

Kat (41:59)
I've got a

friggin' packet of pumpkin seeds I bought years ago and just and I'm like, what am I doing with this?

Tiffany (42:05)
Yeah.

Kat (42:09)
Two bucks wasted. I know. Like two bucks wasted five years ago it like haha, now it's like man

Tiffany (42:14)
Yeah, right. What were you thinking?

Kat (42:17)
Okay, some other tips. We'll say it before, we'll say it again. Grow what you like and what you'll actually eat. Or what you can barter in the Mad Max universe that's coming up. But even just having one or two plants in your garden that you really enjoy can save you a bunch of money from the grocery store, especially over time. And the joy. That's the thing. You can't miss the joy. Most blogs will tell you to focus on more expensive vegetables, which are now tomatoes, peppers, and garlic.

Tiffany (42:24)
Yes.

huh.

And bringing you lots of joy.

Mm.

Kat (42:46)
Buy the cheaper veg at the grocery store, whatever. If you don't eat tomatoes, peppers, and garlic, there is no reason for you to grow them unless you're gonna be bartering with your neighbors.

Tiffany (42:53)
Right.

Garlic is they consider it more expensive. That's how interesting. It's like seventy-five cents a for a whole th yeah. Which

Kat (42:57)
Yeah. But I know, I thought garlic was cheap too.

Yeah. A head. A whole clove. Yeah. And also growing

garlic, it's a biennial, isn't it? So it would take more work.

Tiffany (43:10)
I'm not sure. I've never tried it. I do want to try it. I want to try tomatoes. Not tomatoes. I don't I'm not doing tomatoes. I just personal reasons, but I just trauma from the past now. I want to try garlic and onions, but I haven't yet. I did actually last year. I did. And it worked. It was easy.

Kat (43:28)
Our neighbor did. We have like

he had buckets full of onions. Just he just moved out, which is too bad. We miss you kind. But Yeah, tomatoes are really easy. That's why people grow them. but yeah, onions apparently easy too. carrots take more time. You know, berries are super good investment if you have the space for them.

Tiffany (43:33)
Right.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Kat (43:58)
I don't know, speaking of time, that's another thing, give your gardening efforts that. You need to give them time. And make a plan, like you were saying last week. That's the most important thing. You can do a fuck a garden, like you're talking about, but the best way to save on startup costs is to know what you're doing. I know. Map out where the plants will go based on what sunlight they need, what water they need, and whether or not they could ruin each other by cross pollinating.

Tiffany (44:02)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yes. I also will say I one caveat of my effort garden is that I did earlier this spring have like a plan. Like I laid out what doesn't like each other and what should not be planted next to each other because I didn't really know. So I had a pretty good plan. Yeah. that doesn't mean that I didn't just throw caution to the wind in every other way, but

Kat (44:27)
It can be that simple.

Th just Google that. Yes, that helps.

my god.

Tiffany (44:56)
I did have that, which I was glad I had it, 'cause then when Charlie was down there, you know, we could just sort of like look at the little map that I drew and then it was easy. So yes, yes.

Kat (45:03)
Yeah. So put those here.

We're we've just got a bunch of containers right now. Sean is on a kick. Holy shnikes. He has I've been saying holy shnike that's apparently my word of the month. It's holy snakes. I feel like a Scooby Doo cast member, but holy shnikes. he started propagating stuff in the arrow garden that he bought several years ago, which is you put the seeds in a pod and it has water circulating and then it grows. And so

Tiffany (45:18)
Yeah, I was gonna say Scooby Doo.

Mm.

Kat (45:32)
I don't even know how many species of green chili he bought from Albuquerque. I think three or four. 'Cause we have a bunch of like hot peppers. so many tomato plants that we're growing. And then our neighbor gave us a jalapeno plant and a habanero plant. This is like glory food. This isn't like

Tiffany (45:37)
That's awesome. Mm-hmm.

Kat (45:54)
Stuff that we're I mean, maybe next winter I hide and watch. we do. Sean loves them. So I mean it it's you know that could save us on three racha costs, maybe. so much green chili. I mean, green chili has a lot of vitamin C. I'm just gonna say I won't get screwby. But tomato plants, cucumbers out of nowhere, and we're just kinda making it up as we go along because none of us planned this. We're just like cool.

Tiffany (45:56)
Yeah, you can't survive off jalapenos. However, I feel like you guys do use peppers a lot though, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I feel I and like you said, it builds over time. Like your knowledge builds over time. You're like, Okay, those cucumbers failed because maybe it was too shady or something, you know, like

Kat (46:25)
So

Yes. That didn't work last year. Right.

Right.

yeah, all kinds of reasons. So

Tiffany (46:37)
Yeah.

Kat (46:39)
Fuck around and find out. But yes, and any food you can grow for yourself now is probably not a bad thing. So accept that tomato plant from your neighbor who's like, I have too many.

Tiffany (46:41)
Yes. But in a good way.

Mm.

Yes.

And we are gonna talk a little later in the season about food forests, maybe even coming up in a couple episodes. Yeah. So I to be honest, we talk about it in my permaculture class and I'm like, what is a food forest? I don't know. So I'm really curious. you're gonna teach me that, but that's like another option, right? Like,

Kat (47:03)
Yes. I think it's in two weeks. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I am.

Right.

Yes, there are community options too. and yeah, local foraging, there's still that I think we've talked about it before. There's that online map of I don't know if it's still updated anymore, but like publicly available fruit trees and things. might be worth

Tiffany (47:22)
Mm.

Mhm. Yeah,

and some people put food forests on in their property. Like that's how they design their like landscaping. So cool. so it doesn't have to be like a formal garden bed, but

Kat (47:41)
Yeah, that's cool. So yeah,

Right. There's all kinds of

Tiffany (47:50)
And you can actually mix like you can throw a tomato plant in with your flowers. Who cares?

Kat (47:56)
Yeah. They'd

probably be the s the tastiest tomato you've ever had.

Tiffany (48:01)
Probably and it would probably grow really well and also it's easy. Yeah, it's easy.

Kat (48:04)
And

Tomato yeah.

Tomato plants will volunteer too. They will come back the next year, even if you don't plant them. Especially if you have too many and they fall to the ground and I've had that happen.

Tiffany (48:12)
Yeah.

yeah, that happened

to me a couple years in a row. That's one of the re yeah. If you I one thing I will say, this happened to me and I was afraid of thinning where I was afraid of killing them because I was like, they grew. They obviously deserve to live. No, they don't. You need to kill like most of them because otherwise yeah. Otherwise it's just you're gonna just have a panic attack because you have so many frickin' plants.

Kat (48:20)
Yeah. Sometimes

No.

Yeah. To make the others survive. Call the herd. They're like deer. They're like deer. And that's

just it. You are. And some of are gonna be healthier than others and there's all kinds of things. Yeah.

Tiffany (48:46)
Mm. And they

I they I'm assuming they probably like suck nutrients and yeah and moisture from each other, so you don't want too many. But yeah. Well that's awesome. I love this. Well this was yeah, no, but this was good because it was like a revisit, so we didn't have to do like the normal And look, we're at fifty minutes, of course.

Kat (48:50)
Yeah, they're called suckers. They're literally called suckers. Yeah. No.

Anyway. So okay, so it was about feelings.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yes.

five out of five. Five out of five granolas, break your teeth off gardening for yourself. With planning.

Tiffany (49:18)
Yes.

Yeah, which is so interesting because I we have to we have kinda changed our tune. I didn't re listen to that last one, but from my what I remember is that it was sort of like, Maybe, maybe not. And now we're like, Fucking grow your own food, people. We have to.

Kat (49:32)
I yeah. If you can. I I think

it's a thing or make friends with people who can. I th I think I hope I'm wrong. But I I d I think it's worth it. Go to your local library and find the seeds that they will give you and just grow something.

Tiffany (49:38)
Yeah.

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah. Seed

trades, like people give away seeds on gardening groups, like yeah.

Kat (49:56)
Yeah.

And seedlings. Like we have a purple plant stand down the street and people just sort of like, I had too many XYZ, so get some. Yeah. I hope I'm wrong.

Tiffany (50:03)
that's really cool. That's awesome.

Mm-hmm. Me too. But even if you are wrong, I still think it's a good idea.

Kat (50:11)
But anyway, for the

Right. It just feels better. Even if you just have two tomato plants on your back patio. Or in your living room.

Tiffany (50:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and

yeah, exactly. Like that's what I used to have and it great. But I will say w in my life right now, I'm going through a very dark time. I sort of mentioned I'm like, I put on a f smiley face, but it's hard right now and making that effic garden was like it's like one of my bright spots and it just really helps my soul.

Kat (50:41)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (50:54)
in ways that are you can't even calculate that.

Kat (50:56)
Yeah. It's

and it's subtle. Like it's not like taking an oxycodone or something that knocks you out. It's like you just feel better after. Kind of like doing any kind of exercise, going for a walk, you're like, Well, this kind of sucks and then you come back and you're like, I actually I feel better. Like gardening is like that. It's subtle. But it's the ROI is not in the money, it's in the soul.

Tiffany (51:01)
Yeah.

Yes, that helped. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Maybe it's in the money. Over time. But yeah. Mhm. Totally.

Kat (51:27)
And maybe ho maybe in the money over time, but definitely in the soul. Yeah. Get off

your phone, plant something.

Tiffany (51:34)
Yes. That sh that should be our season title.

Kat (51:38)
Get off

get off your phone and play something. Yeah. Don't tell me I'm listening to you on my phone. Yeah. Yeah. But

Tiffany (51:40)
people like, shut up. Don't tell me what to do

Yeah. Sadly,

yeah, that's true. But sadly today Charlie was like, I was looking up something actually for her. She was like, I wanna do martial arts. So I was like, Okay, let me look at whatever. Yeah, we'll we'll see if it happens. But and she just looked at me, she's five, and she's like, I wish I had a phone And I was like, I hate my life right now. I was like, No you don't. No you don't, no you don't

Kat (51:59)
Cool. Karate, whatever, yeah.

no no Just wait till you hate

your parents in five years. You won't want a phone then.

Tiffany (52:16)
Yeah, not even five.

Give it ten. Twenty. I say twenty.

Kat (52:21)
Twenty years till she hates you? I've done don't children hate their parents at thirteen? 'til she gets a phone, yeah. you know. No, she doesn't hate you. I I feel like, if if we as millennials just use our phones too much, the kids will be like, That's not cool. Phones aren't cool anymore.

Tiffany (52:24)
No, I mean until she gets a phone. She already hates me probably, I don't know, but No, she doesn't.

Mm. Right? That's

our plan is just overuse them in front of them and they're like, We hate this

Kat (52:42)
Yeah, we're like look how stupid it is. Yeah. It's

so much cooler to meet your friends in person than on Facebook.

Tiffany (52:50)
Yeah. I'm actually pretty good about it. I w I am not perfect, but I I'm pretty good about it. and I try not to be on my phone in front of her. But today I was like, God

Kat (52:57)
That's good. That's it's kinda it's like it's

like smoking or drinking or like cussing. Like things you shouldn't do in front of children. You're like hiding it behind your back, you know? I feel like phones are like that. They're like the new cigarette. Yeah.

Tiffany (53:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. It is. It

is. Like me walking in on my dad smoking pot. And he was like, shit

Kat (53:15)
You're like, shoot Yeah.

This is not for childhood consumption.

Tiffany (53:22)
Yeah, it should be. It's crazy. Mm-hmm.

Kat (53:24)
Yeah, I feel like phones. Phones are the next cigarettes. Well,

actually alcohol's the next cigarettes and then phones from there.

Tiffany (53:30)
Mm. I know. It takes time. Yes. There you go.

Kat (53:32)
Phones are the next alcohol. And then yeah, there we go.

Okay. So next week you are supposed to be talking about are perennial vegetables worth it? So you're gonna go deeper into those reoccurring vegetables.

Tiffany (53:41)
Yes.

Yeah, 'cause a lot of people say that they're garbage. Which I'm don't know. We'll see. yeah.

Kat (53:51)
Okay, we'll find out. I'm

I you know, I'm not ready for perennials yet. Maybe but maybe I will be. Maybe the Mad Max Apocalypse will make me ready for perennials.

Tiffany (53:56)
Yeah, it's maybe I will be maybe you will be. We'll see.

Yeah, exactly. So we shall see. okay, sweet. So

Kat (54:07)
All right.

send us your gardening stories on Instagram or email us. Nobody emails us. So we're greening up my act at gmail dot com or you can DM us on Instagram. Tell us your stories. I wanna know what you find good about gardening. Or yeah. Or plants that you I'll take a bunch of p pictures of our backyard and I'll yeah.

Tiffany (54:23)
Yes, any and pictures?

I'll take some of my Eff It Garden and if anything grows, fingers crossed. Something will. Might be weeds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Bye.

Kat (54:33)
Yeah. Something will. unexpected. Yeah. Probably eat them too. All right. See you next week.