MUSED: LA 2 HOU
MUSED: LA 2 HOU
SON CUATRO | Cheech In Conversation with Margaret Garcia
Artist Margaret García says “her work provides a look at my community through the presence of the individual” and her desire is for her work “to be pertinent and meaningful.” She is the featured artist in this episode of the inaugural “Son Cuatro: In Conversation” podcast series co-hosted by art advocate Cheech Marin with Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum; Anna Bermudez of Museum of Ventura County; and and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks of CauseConnect, the producer and moderator of this series who also manages Marin's notable Chicano art collection.
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Welcome
SPEAKER_01:to Son Cuatro, In Conversation. This series is presented by Riverside Art Museum, also known as RAM, leading up to its opening of the Chich Marín Center for Chicano Art and Culture, a.k.a. The Chich. I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks, and today there are four of us who will be in conversation with artist Margaret Garcia. Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at the Riverside Art Museum. Ana Bermudez, who is the Chief Curator at the Museum of Ventura County. And the incomparable Cheech Maureen, entertainer, filmmaker, comedian, collector, art advocate, and just lots of fun. Now, before we start, I wanted to share that I've had the pleasure of working with Cheech for nearly 20 of his 40 years of collecting. It is because of him that I have become a collector of some sort. And on this very date, 16 years ago, my own path to collecting began with my first purchase, which was a painting by Margaret Garcia. Now, what she astutely knew, and I naively did not at the time, was that I would fall in love with her Ere Libre painting after she generously allowed me to hang it on my wall so that clients could see it. Well, it never left my wall until I decided that it needed to go to Cheech because I knew he would take care of it and it would go to a major museum. And now we have the Cheech. Todd?
SPEAKER_02:Good afternoon. So when Margaret talks about her work, she says that her work provides a look at her community through the presence of the individual and that her desire is for her work to be pertinent and meaningful. She's a teacher, she's a mentor to many young artists who are just starting their careers and her work has been exhibited in group shows throughout the United States and in Europe. Although she doesn't consider her work overtly political, over time she's come to realize that many of her portraits belie the stereotypes given to any one culture by the media. In addition to her portrayals of sensual women of mixed race, many of her street scenes and landscapes that depict her Highland Park neighborhood are in Cheech's collection. Currently, Cheech has over 30 artworks by Margaret in the collection. Her most known work in the collection is Janine at 39, Mother of Twins. So I have a question to start with Cheech. Cheech, how and when did you meet Margaret and what is it about Janine at 39 in particular that is so compelling to you and will be to other viewers?
SPEAKER_00:You know, it seems like I've known Margaret from the very beginning of I started collecting, you know, because she was in that group of LA painters that were very prolific as she has remained to this day, which I think accounted for her being the most improved painter of any painter that I have. I've seen her progress over the years and not only what she does, but how she does it has intrigued me because the technique has become preeminent. I'm not preeminent, but it's really important because I've seen her develop it over the years and when it's applied to the subject matter her own neighborhood and I don't know if there's anybody in my collection that depicts their neighborhood as accurately and as colorfully and as wonderfully as Margaret does I think the key to her success and her renown as it were is because she does paint every day And you find those great painters do it. And they paint almost every day, you know, unless they have to go to their parole officers or anything like that again. But every day, you know, and you see the progress. That's the great thing about collecting a lot of works of Margaret. You see the market progress of the ability and the insight as to what the paintings mean. And that has increased over the years. Janine in 39, I think it was... In the Chicano Visions tour, which went to 14 major museums over a seven-year period of time, all the way from the Smithsonian to LACMA to San Diego Museum, the Young at San Francisco. of all the paintings in the collection that were exhibited then, Jeannie in 39 was the overwhelming favorite of everybody who's came in to see the show. And it really told me a lot about the process of people viewing art in the tour, you know, because I don't think the general audience looked at her work as some kind of intellectual, academic analysis of responding to the emotion of the painting, you know, and that which is what I did too, you know. Janina, 39 months, mother of twins, is for me the definition of fecundity. It's like this woman is ripe sitting in the lap of an agave and a rocking chair. It took me a long time to see that that chair was, oh, those roses are on the chair. But it's, you know, it's... Her paintings tend to be lush. And I think everybody that really loves paintings responds to lushness because of the nature of the quality of paint. It was confirmed by everybody voting for it. Because we asked that specific question. What is the painting that you respond to most? And it always came up, Jeannie, the 39 mother of twins. Told me a lot, you know, because it's like as a comedian, you can step on the stage and you think you got a good joke going and you tell the joke and they don't laugh. Well, it ain't funny. They laugh. It's funny. No matter how much you want it to be funny or how much you think it's funny, it's the same thing with paintings. You put it in front of people and they react. It's a very visceral thing that happens. And I've seen it happen over and over again. So Margaret's paintings are some of my favorite in the collection because I can... not only stare at them a long times, but they remind me of neighborhoods that I knew from my childhood. And I think that's, whether it's in the state of California or in the state of Florida, people respond the same way. It's amazing how that reaction goes. So I'd like to ask you a couple of questions, Margaret, if you are ready. Okay, so here's the one primary question. Why did you become an artist?
SPEAKER_05:I came home from school with my crayon drawing and my dad said, oh, you're an artist. And I thought, oh. Cool. I'm an artist. I like that.
SPEAKER_06:How old were you?
SPEAKER_05:Kindergarten, maybe five. Grandma had a lot of art books. She had drawings. She had paintings.
SPEAKER_00:Your father and your grandmother were both painters?
SPEAKER_05:No, my grandmother, she knew how to draw. My dear uncle Charlie bought her some paintings and we had them in the living room. So we had art in our house when I was a kid and it was original. So they weren't reproductions. I mean, we actually had art. But I wanted to ask you something because it kind of, you know, I hear you talk about how you went to school and you did the ceramics and you showed the teacher and the teacher went, Oh, you'll never be an artist. And you let it go. And I hear that, and I feel like you got robbed. Because let me say this, and it's really important to the way that I work. Talent is an overrated concept. It isn't talent. It's hard work. It's about having the fire in your belly and deciding that you have a vision that you want to impart. You may not be real good, but if you keep doing it and keep doing it, you get good. And it has to do more with the vision and what you have to impart or say than whether or not you have that talent. Because nobody's born walking or running or talking. You learn, you know. And I've worked in the prisons and with gangs and other people. And... That is a discouragement because I think that sometimes the art teacher doesn't have a clue about your cultural background or what you come from or what your experience is. And, you know, they're eliminating competition, Cheech. You know, that's not supposed to be their job. Their job is to teach you, not to eliminate the competition. Because look, you know, you say I'm the most improved. Let me say this. I leave the door open to evolving forward, always. And I don't get stuck on just using iconography. Because iconography, even though I will use it, it'll turn into a cliche. And cliches become stereotypes. And so I don't want to be a cliche or a stereotype. We're more complex than that. That's why I like
SPEAKER_00:the portrait. You've done well in that. I have a lot of your portraits and I can see the difference in them all the time. So what set you on this creative path other than you wanted to draw and very soon you're recognizing yourself that you had the ability to do it and to progress in that. But what set you on this creative path that this is the way I'm going to live my life. I'm going to be an artist, which is an incredible statement, especially at a younger age. when you go forward to enter a field that is extremely hard to make a living at?
SPEAKER_05:I didn't enter the field with the idea that I was going to be an artist and make a living at it. I entered the practice of drawing and painting because I wanted to see if I could get good at it for myself, not for the public, not for a gallery, not for a museum, because the first person I needed to deal with was me. And having the practice like painting and drawing is like having the practice of writing or singing or playing the piano. It becomes a part of your life. It is your practice. It is your discipline. It's the thing that you do that... makes your life. It's the way I live my life. I think that it's a way to express myself, to express the visions that I have in terms of beauty and harmony and the beautiful things I see in other people and in my community. I'm lucky. I feel really, really lucky that I'm a Chicana. I love my culture and I love The expressiveness of the music, of charo music, of mariachi, of the colorful costumes and the colorful nature of the weavings that come from Mexico, I love that stuff. So I'm in the right place for who I
SPEAKER_00:am. Yeah, you are in the right place for who you are. Is it your neighborhood that inspires you as an artist? I mean, are the people or are they both one in the same?
SPEAKER_05:I grew up in Boyle Heights. Boyle Heights has always been a very mixed neighborhood. There's a lot of Chicanos here, but there were also lots of Japanese and Jewish and Russian. And there were Chinese and African-Americans and everybody It was a mixed bag. And there was such a degree of tolerance. Tolerance in terms of the teachers that I had because I had African-American teachers and Jewish teachers and Japanese teachers. I had all kinds of teachers. So I had that exposure because that's Boyle Heights. You know, if you love life, you love beauty, if you love your culture, you know... I think art is the way that we define who we are. And I like the history that goes with it. So I've worked with historian Bill Mason, who did 30 years at the Museum of Natural History. We did a project at the Campo de Cahuenga Universal Metro Station, where I did a historic landmark. And I got to totally get into that. And it was all about the... mestizaje of people that came here and founded LA. So I love history. I love the art. And, you know, just being alive.
SPEAKER_00:Did you have any particular mentor or teacher that kind of guided you along the path?
SPEAKER_05:You know, in high school, I had a teacher named Roberto Chavez, who was a teacher over at ELAC. And he actually was teachers to Magoo. And a few other people, Ophelia Esparza. So there were a whole number of Chicano artists that went through that ELAC group. And I lived across the street and would go there on Tuesday nights and join his drawing class. He let me audit it. And I wasn't enrolled. He said, just come in. Just draw. Just draw.
SPEAKER_00:Cool. That is... Has he passed on or are you still in contact?
SPEAKER_05:No, no. He's living in Arizona. He recently had a show at ELAC at the Vincent Price and he had a nice catalog and I went there to see them. We had a lecture on him. I think he's still alive. I hope he's still. Who knows with the pandemic? I don't know what the pandemic took out right now. I'm
SPEAKER_00:surprised that I'm alive.
SPEAKER_05:Hey,
SPEAKER_00:please hang in there. It's amazing. I mean, we've just gone through a singular time in our history where we, the whole nation, actually the whole world has been quarantined and we're going to, it's my feeling that we're going to come out of this essentially changed. The things are going to be done differently as we go forward, faster, more streamlined, more efficient, more inclusive, more, make it harder to exclude than we have been before and I think that is a great thing for the country and Because we have to learn how to do things more efficiently and how to spread. the effects that we want to see happen in the world now with the advent of the internet and other sources like that. It's going to move very fast now. You could be walking down the street in Nigeria with a click of a button on your computer and that's, you know, knowledge of all other cultures are being exchanged extremely fast right now. I mean, some of the works that I... that I possess of yours, I mean, there's not a Chicano in sight, you know? Willie Middlebrook, the portrait you did of Willie Middlebrook is like still one of my favorite things because it's just like, wow, that color, you know, that darkness. Because I went to, I was in a school for the fourth grade in South Central LA where the majority of the students were black. And you see all those kinds of fusions like you were talking about, Boyle Heights, there are all kinds of races and categories of people in there. So you kind of grow up with that. And so you can, you can, appreciate the otherness rather than dismiss
SPEAKER_05:it yes you know it's like a unique flower you know like orchids you put this orchid together with that orchid and you get something totally different that neither looks like but it is this beauty that you know she looks kind of china no she looks more african-american i mean there's a little bit of all of that and it's so unique i mean people look so unique in one way i'm saying where a community and then another I'm also saying but within the community there are so many people that are unique and contribute and the other thing is when you do a portrait if you're doing a portrait you can break stereotypes because you know, being part of Hollywood that, you know, you're either, you know, a housekeeper, a gangbanger, a prostitute or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:I was never a prostitute. I want to discourage that thought.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I saw you wearing those tights.
SPEAKER_00:Prostitute adjacent.
SPEAKER_05:But you know, the thing is, you know, the stereotypes about who we are, they are stereotypes because in all of that collection, there's teachers and filmmakers and you know curators and maybe a comedian now and then but I mean you know where the whole range it isn't that that we have to omit people or not be honest about what's part of our community But there's so much more in our community. You know, doctors and nurses and my brother's a doctor.
SPEAKER_00:You know, the other quality that you have of your work that I really, really appreciate and it's why I... collect paintings is because just the quality of paint the paint is a wonderfully elastic medium that can be opaque or translucent or transparent or malleable or thick or thin and it's just that's why paintings have to be seen in person and I learned that very early in my art experience that I would go to museums at a very young age and get up as close to the paintings as I possibly could and even over many hundreds of years that quality remains in some paintings but I mean it's like it's like having a really thick wonderful sauce that you can put on anything you know it's like you can taste it you can feel it you can I mean when they're not looking you can touch it I
SPEAKER_05:like my paint when it's almost like frosting you know thick and there's texture yeah
SPEAKER_00:you know the thickness of it and that's kind of what Chicano has in It's kind of an essential quality. How difficult is that to do, you know, to work in the thickness of paint rather than the graphic design of it?
SPEAKER_05:It's my nature now. I've been making my paint so thick for a long time. I never throw out a painting that I don't like. I just paint over it. So I build the surface of the painting and I like painting on wood because there's more tension between the brush and and the surface of the panel and you can carve with it. You can mold the surface of that paint better than you can if it's on canvas. When you put it on canvas, the canvas kind of gives and sucks up the fluidity of the paint and it doesn't. On wood, it stands up and you can really make that texture come alive.
SPEAKER_00:I remember you had that conversation with me when I asked you that specific question one time in the past. I said, why did you paint this one on wood and not on canvas? You explained that you can push... the paint better on wood in some instances than you can on canvas, you know? So it's a real kind of, you know, a wall to throw the ball against. Sometimes it comes off fast, sometimes slow, and sometimes you have to hit it harder. You know, it's a real, but the technique, the technique of learning how to paint, I think is something that identifies the Chicano school of painting, you know, because it's not just the thought that counts, it's the execution of the thought that is really important. Todd, she got questions.
SPEAKER_02:You got questions. Earlier today, you talked about leaving the door open to evolution in your work, which I think is really interesting. And so as you think about the evolution of your work over your career, has it been intentional or intentional? By happenstance, have you just let sort of your views and inspiration drive you? How would you talk about the evolution in your work?
SPEAKER_05:Well, it's very premeditated because I got tired. Listen, you know, I love the Day of the Dead. I love Frida Kahlo, you know, Cinco de Mayo, the Virgen of Guadalupe, and the farm worker flag. I love all of it. And I have no problem using it. But we're so much more complex. And when you're talking about something that's really personal and intimate about yourself, then you have to traverse something that's really difficult. You have to challenge yourself. If I paint a calavera for 40 years and I just keep whipping them out, they're going to look great. They look fine. It's very decorative. It's pretty. It's nice. But the truth is that it becomes a cliche because you're not really digging deep. You have to dig deep. And, you know, if you have these icons that you rely on, you know, I've done wild dogs. I've done chili peppers. I've done Day of the Dead. I've done Frida Kahlo. I've done the Virgin of Guadalupe. And I might even do them again. But the thing is that the complexity of how I feel about as a human being, as a spirit, as a spiritual quest, means that I have to challenge myself. And challenging myself means that I have to be willing to fail. I have to be willing to challenge myself to fall down and fail and get up and do it again. Because if you're always on point, if everything you do is perfect and wonderful and you never make a mistake, that means you're not challenging yourself. If you're challenging yourself, that means you have to be willing to fall down. You have to be willing to fail. Somebody who's doing something that they can do in the snap of a button because it's easy, they're resting on their laurels. They're not challenging yourself. So for me, it isn't just, yeah, my next painting is a better painting. Always. But if you're talking about evolving as a human being, not just as an artist, but as a human being and a person who has perhaps emotional and spiritual growth to make your purpose in life, then you have to challenge yourself and be willing to fall now. And I see a lot of art and a lot of it's really beautiful and decorative. And I go back to what Joseph Campbell said. There's three kinds of art. There's decorative, there's art that's made out of gold and it has a lot of man hours. And then there's art that when you look at it, it gives you an understanding of the human condition. It gives you an epiphany about the condition that you're in or your environment, or it says something to you that you can relate to in your heart and you can see it. That's the challenge. So I will always continue to improve. But I like the word evolve because... It isn't that I'm not good where I'm at. I mean, I could stay put where I'm at and do the same thing over and over again. I would be very unhappy.
SPEAKER_02:One of the things Cheech talks a lot about is that the artists in his collection are often painting news from the front, sort of really documenting neighborhoods and finding the inspiration in those neighborhoods and communities and really sort of saying, here's what's happening in my house, on my street, in my community. And You do that quite frequently and fluidly, and it's really extraordinarily beautiful. I'm curious about inspiration in some of your work, most notably or most recently, the fire paintings. So you've got a series of fire paintings that come at a time where other artists have done some different versions, not anywhere near the same, but lots of artists working with fire. I think about Sandy Rodriguez and some of the fire paintings that she did that came before the Florentine Codex work that she's doing. So what is the inspiration behind your fire paintings? I think that they're really extraordinary.
SPEAKER_05:I went up to Ventura to visit Anna and I asked her to take me up to where the Thomas fire was. But even before that, I had done this painting and it was one of the reasons I did that one painting called Premonition. Where I was just fascinated by fire and I painted this palm tree on fire and the sparks were falling all over this truck. I don't think you've seen that one, Cheech. It's gone. And then I did another one called Premonition. And the thing is that it was, I want to say almost like something in my dreams. I needed to go back and I needed to look for those things. And then all of a sudden there's a fire season and all these fires came about. I like to paint in my cadmiums. I want to see how hot I get it. And oftentimes I see fire-painted... But there's always this kind of dullness to it. And it's not very viscous. And I wanted the paint to be almost like crackling of the sparks that came off that tree. I wanted it to glow and have a luminosity. And oil paint, more than acrylic, has the ability to do that sort of luminous glow. So you feel like the glow is coming from the bottom layer of the paint. And that's what I was trying to master on that. So I just got as many fires as I could and started painting them. I kind of agree with Carlos Almaraz. I have to give him a nod because I became aware of his work in 83. And you ask about who influences me, but I have to tell you, yeah. I saw his show up at the Municipal Art Gallery in 84 and I was like, oh my God. Blown away. I like fire.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you capture it in a really powerful way with this incredible amount of movement in there. It's not static. They're just very live and really, really brilliant. So I have another question in a different direction. And we're seeing scholarship now, writing the sort of documents, the continued... lack of representation of Latino, Latinx artists in the major markets. And so as you think about your career, are there surely challenges, but also what have been the opportunities for you that you've experienced as an artist in gaining recognition for your work?
SPEAKER_05:I just started by doing what I wanted to do. I had gone through some traumatic experiences and was not really good at functioning in terms of like going out and holding down a job. I couldn't even do it. And I had a good friend, Glenna Avila, who hired me to work at the photo center. And I was able to work with a lot of photographers. That's where I met Willie Middlebrook. And photography really impacts your sense of composition. And I got involved with... photojournalism the there was a group of Chicano photographers that had gotten the Pulitzer and Willie Middlebrook who had gotten the NEA and so these guys became my my support my they were I want to say Willie kind of mentored me as well as a number of other people Jose Barrera who just passed away from this like a few months ago from this pandemic. And the content of the work in terms of being, it isn't like a drive-by. There are people who are photographers and they kind of drive by and take a shot. You have to engage you, you have to relate and you have to have a conversation with that person. It isn't just a drive by, you know, rape and pillage kind of photography, but one that has meaning because you've had an interaction and it, and, and your work is evidence of it. And that's what I wanted. You know I didn't, I didn't want to do the same thing over and over again. You know, I don't, I don't want to do 2,000 calaveras and 400 Frida Kahlo's. I mean, I love them. I love her. And that's cool. And sometimes when you hit a wall, it's nice to use that iconography to break free from whatever it is that's holding you back in terms of digging in. But once you dig in, then you start going for the more personal things. You have to bare your soul. You have to show what you really love, what means something to you. What do you care about? I mean, why are you taking the time to paint that if it doesn't mean anything to you? It's really hard for me to listen to the news these days. I don't want to bear witness to that anymore. And the other thing is, if you're so against something, you have to show what you're for, right? I get that we're all against the war, but you have to show that you're in favor of peace. You're in favor of beauty, in favor of learning, in favor of giving somebody a hand up, of looking at humanity and being able to see the humanity in those eyes. It isn't just another mask or another face, but that you relate to that person on a personal level. There are times when people sit for me and they don't understand what I'm doing and they don't connect. They look behind me. They look around me. You talk to them. They don't make eye contact. And sometimes it just doesn't work because they're nervous. I make them nervous. I'm not trying to, but that's just the way it is. And so sometimes it's about a moment. You know, you're not just painting a face, a body. You're painting the moment, the air, the atmosphere, the social engagement that you have. It isn't just a likeness. You were talking
SPEAKER_04:with Todd about this and how some artists, and you and I have had the discussion before about how some artists get stuck in a niche subject matter, but that is so not you. So my first question to you is, so what's next? Where does your work go from here? You
SPEAKER_05:know, I used to paint pretty fast. You know, if I cut out six paintings a day, I thought I was doing good. And now it's like one painting and it's like, Two months later, I'm still working on that same painting. And I'm just in a different point of evolution. I'm looking to see how far I can take it. And I'm giving it a lot more time. Before I used to give myself limits. Okay, you've got an hour, paint it. And then kind of let go because I... I don't want to overwork things. I see things that get overworked. And so you have to be able to let go in phases. And now that I'm 70, there's other things that I want to see there. I want to convey my sense of beauty in terms of what I see around me. And, you know... I have to say, and it's like one of the most important things to me in my life, my existence is to be able to open the door for somebody else. You know, the other people on here don't don't know this, but like you've opened up the pavilion to exhibit a lot of the people I just mentored because their work is really phenomenal. And I like surrounding myself with really good, tough people who work hard because they throw the gauntlet down and they just force you to be better. And it's that camaraderie that sort of sustains me. It's that conversation. You know, David Fleury is a part of that. And of course, there are plenty of people who aren't Chicano that are a part of it. But because it's not exclusive. And the other thing that I really care about right now is women artists. I want to make sure that they don't feel trapped, that they can figure out a way to work themselves out of whatever that trap is that's holding them back from being able to succeed. We all have a different path. It's not all the same path. But being able to create economic sustainability, doing the thing that you love is important. So I'd like to see more women have that opportunity because they develop better. Yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff on that that I could touch on, but we'll talk for another hour. So I don't want to do that. But
SPEAKER_04:yeah, more women. Thank you. And I know that even with the pandemic in the way of this upcoming exhibit that we have happening in October, you've taken the time, the short time that you had before the pandemic to mentor some of our female artists here in Ventura County as well. And it is so much appreciated. And we all thank you for that.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you. I haven't had much opportunity to meet with with them, I'm hoping I get more time.
SPEAKER_04:Well, they're looking forward to that. So you and I spent lots of pre-pandemic time together, either in the car, driving somewhere, sharing a meal right after the Thomas fire. And we've had several studio visits with you as well, not just myself, but my family. And I have to tell you that every time I visit your studio, I love going there because it's just such a nondescript building and you get there and you arrive and it's, you open the door and it's just full of color, color, just color everywhere. all over your studio, purple walls, orange walls. And it's just, it makes me smile every time I walk in there, whether it's the landscapes on the wall, the night scenes with the street vendors, the portraits that are challenging you to make that eye contact with them. It's just such an enticing candy store of art. I just love it. So my question to you now is what are you working on now
SPEAKER_05:i'm working on my show for you and ventura i have this one painting that's been kicking my butt from one end to the other and i've put a lot of work into this one particular painting that's kind of large and uh you know i'm taking some cues i want to say or clues from uh I want to say Monet, his brushwork, you know, that busyness, that chaotic busyness. And then it makes sense because the brush strokes are succinct and to the point and on target. And yet it looks chaotic, but it's not. And I'm trying to make the paint a little thicker. Of course, my palette's much brighter now. than his ever was. But I stick to that because that's my inheritance of being Chicana is the bright color.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we don't want to show that painting to Cheech just yet because we don't want him to grab that up before we go. So I want to talk to you a little bit about the art exhibit that we're having at the museum, Arte para la Gente. So I want to preface it by saying that as a curator, and I think Todd, you can relate to this as well, I need to get to know an artist and what they're about before I can actually do an exhibit of their work. I can't curate an exhibit without getting that backstory from the artist and I think it's part of my precocious nature being an only child and having grown up with just adults in the house that just, I have that curiosity about people and Margaret has been so open about her life with me and one of the first things that she shared with me was her her grandma Ruth's story and the impact that your grandmother had on your work. And I know that she just talked to you about what influenced your work, but that story is such a dear story where you have this grandmother that tells you, yes, you can do this. And I think it's really influenced the way that we're presenting this exhibit at the museum. Do you want to talk a little bit about how this exhibit came about. Why did you want us to do this exhibit for you?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I've been going back and forth to Ventura County, first with Cafe Ane, with Armando over there. So I was getting to know the community a little better. And then Vanessa Acosta and Big X, you know, invited me out. He did some harp playing there. So I got to know the community a little better. And I feel that there's more opportunity in the outskirts because there's a lot of community there. Joyce Chavez. There's people from the Reboso Festival. People that connect with the work that I'm doing. And... I just think the opportunity is a little more open. You guys are more supportive of me. I can't see myself dealing with LACMA. Cheeched out with LACMA, I don't know how long it took him to get that show. They have bigger fish to fry. There's a lot more people. I'd rather go someplace where I just feel a little more at home. It is that. As far as my grandmother is concerned, you know, grandma used to pick me up at school and tell the nurse I had a doctor's appointment. We'd go to the horse track and bet on the horses, you know, and she would take me out. She was, my mother called her a libertina y callejera. And yeah, me too. And yeah. I looked at her as my role model. She was a nurse over there at County General, and I think she was the backbone of my family. I felt like that was what I wanted. And she was strong, and I wanted to be strong. She was a woman, and she was very opinionated, and she wasn't afraid of being opinionated. I thank her for that because she taught me a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I'm sure that she's going to be looking down. Hopefully we will do her proud by presenting this exhibit at the museum, which you've titled Arte para la Gente, Art for the People. And it's so fantastic because it is about your community and it's not just about Boyle Heights. It's about your community. It's about the space that you occupy at any certain time. It can be your garden and the trees in your backyard It can be the paleteros down the street, or it can be the beautiful, haunting, desolate trees in Foster Park right after the Thomas fire that you painted with some of your group. So we're really, really looking forward to having this exhibit there. Working hard on reopening the museum on July 1st, and then you come in on October 16th. So we're very excited to have you.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm grateful for it. I really am grateful that the door is open for me in Ventura. And that the people are there. It's great. It's just really, really wonderful because at 70, I feel like this is realizing my dream. It's my first solo museum exhibit. I've been in many museums with group shows, but this is the first time I get... to put out a body of work that looks back a little bit. And there's pieces that people haven't seen because I pay the rent.
SPEAKER_04:We're so excited to have you. Cheech, Todd, and Melissa, we hope that you can join us sometime during the Run of Margaret's exhibit. If Margaret's there, we'd love to take you all out to one of Margaret's favorite places, Stefan's Restaurant in Ventura, which is kind of our hangout when we go there. It's a good place. And thank you,
SPEAKER_01:Melissa, for having me on. This has been so great. And actually, I'm just so happy with everyone that's here. I thought that what we do at this point is we have a couple of questions, and then if everyone wants to unmute themselves, good, you did. Maybe there's also questions for all of you. There's two right now that are directed to Margaret, and again, for all the other attendees there, if you want to add a few more. I'm going to ask the question that Linda Areola just posted, and it's directed to Margaret, and certainly others can weigh in on but it's specific to Chicano art and being seriously collected. So Linda says, it's been discouraging that many of our best Chicano artists are not represented by commercial galleries and that there doesn't seem to be a serious market for the work, let alone that Chicano art is not seriously collected in museums. What are your thoughts about this? And I'm going to direct that to Margaret first and then Cheech. I think I'd like to hear you and Ana also and Todd weigh in that as well.
SPEAKER_05:It's a curse and it's a blessing. It's a two-edged sword. Because I have not always had a gallery, and just occasionally I have a gallery every now and then. I think I've been with Chimaya, B1, Avenue 50. I mean, there's been a different number of galleries where occasionally you're in a show, but you don't get solid representation. When you get solid representation and they like you for whatever it is you do... Sometimes you get boxed into a corner and you can't grow. You can't change. You can't evolve. You get stuck doing that. And could you give me another hundred, please? And it becomes very redundant and very repetitive. So there is a certain amount of freedom to not having that representation. But economically, it would be a lot easier if you could have it. If you found someone who could really support your work in terms of the way you grow as an artist. Then I would say, yeah, fine. But if you get stuck, then sometimes it's not worth it to me.
SPEAKER_01:Cheech, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, for me, it's been a double-edged sword, too. When I was the kind of only collector out there collecting on that scale... I could get good prices. And that was good because I realized very early in the process that all these paintings were meant for a museum. So I would buy... paintings on that scale I mean not everybody can put a 24 by 12 foot painting in their house you know over the couch unless you've got the world's biggest couch you know so on that side of the the financial scale it worked well for me the other thing is like I'm contrary to popular belief I'm not a zillionaire that say can say hey send over two tons of that art stuff you know and I have to be working I'm a working actor and so So if I'm working, I can collect. So I have to have a relationship with all the painters, which I do. And so it's always a negotiation, but they all know that there's a good chance that every one of their paintings are going to end up in a museum, which is actually the point, is the point of this collection. You know, it's like there's only so much art you can put in your house. And I had to answer that because, well, what are you going to do with it?
SPEAKER_05:Can I say something here? Thank you. Thank you for supporting us because, you know, I know that you've taken a lot of heat because I know, you know, like, oh, there's not enough women in your collection. I know you have women. You have women in this work that you respond to. But I'm going to dare say that sometimes men are talking about the kind of thing that you want to listen to because it's a guy talking to a guy. And occasionally the women come in and they talk about stuff that you care about, too. But it's a different dialogue. And the reason that I think that you respond to it faster is because it's a guy talking to you about guy stuff, right? And I don't see that as being... It seems natural that that would be what you would have. Because as a mother, if I paint paintings that relate to my motherhood, another mother is going to respond to it quicker. And it's the same thing with you, why you respond quicker to guys. But you do have women in your thing. And you've been... You've been supportive of a number of women, including Sonia Faye and Cece Segura and Martha and Patsy and Yolanda. So there's more. And the opening of that door allowed us to open the door for ourselves. Because that's all it is, is basically you're opening the door, and yeah, I know where the art's going, so I'm happy about it.
SPEAKER_00:It is part of that, you know, because I want the best art to go in there, and I don't really care if it's by a man or a woman. The perception may be that I listen to men more than I do, but that really doesn't enter my mind. It's the painting for me.
SPEAKER_05:It's just like they're talking in a voice, they're presenting a vision that somehow you connect with quicker, Because you're a guy, let's face it, you are a man.
SPEAKER_00:Many men at that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'd like to address it from this standpoint, because I usually get a lot of the inquiries that'll come to teach. And I will say that 99% of the inquiries we get are from artists directly. are from guys. And I think women, I would say this, Cheech always says, if you haven't seen Chicano art, you can't love it or like it, but if you don't see it. So I would encourage women artists to reach out or to share. We have different experiences, I think too. Margaret, you are an excellent mentor for other women artists in that way, because I hear from you pretty regularly and so does Cheech. And we know, I mean, you'll send, and not like you're sending me time, tons and tons of images on there, or you're always making sure that Cheech is invited. So whatever the case may be, good communication is really important. I appreciate that. And I think, so we have to put more, that's something I'm personally, I'm a woman, of course. So I'm always trying to say, hey, show your art, what's going on there. And I know- Didn't I send you Sonia Faye? I think you did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's a double-edged sword too.
SPEAKER_01:You
SPEAKER_00:cannot be shy in this. Shall
SPEAKER_01:I go to the next question or does Ana or Todd want to weigh in on that question or I can go to the next one? I
SPEAKER_04:just want to say something really quickly. We are a small museum that started out as a pioneer society that became a historical society and then morphed into a history and art museum. But I depend a lot on my connections. So when I first started here 13 years ago, we started a committee called Las Contemporáneas, which is a group of professional Latina women They are the ones that turned me on to Chimaya Gallery and collecting. And did you see this artist? Did you see, do you know Cece Segura? Do you know the work of Margaret Garcia? So it's so wonderful to be able to have that. Unfortunately, because of our size, we're limited in storage capacity, but we just did an assessment with our collections manager and we found out not only were we sorely lacking in collections, art by women. We are lacking in art by any Latinos. Our collection is less than 4% Latino artists. And it's even less for Asians and other people of color. So it is something that the museum was shocked to find out, but it's something that we are working on. And honestly, thanks to Margaret and her exhibit, this is going to change.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I'd like to add on to what Anna said is that this, the whole industry, the museum industry at this moment is facing this reckoning where every, every collection manager and curator is looking at the collection and really looking at it through a different lens and saying, we've got to rectify this. We've got to fix this. And I think, you know, that's one of the things, you know, Cheech talks a lot, says a lot, you know, when museums would come and say, how do you have all this? He says, well, I have it because you don't. I collect it because you have it. And I think the beauty of the Cheech coming forward now is that this amazing collection of work is going to be not sent off to a bunch of different institutions as one-offs, but really celebrated all in one place. And then it'll continue to grow. We will continue to acquire work, continue to tour it and share it. The beauty of this is that Cheech has also gotten the work out So it hasn't just sat in storage. It hasn't been in his house. It's been in museum after museum of all kinds of sizes and shapes and in all parts of the country and the world. And I think that's, you know, that kind of spirit is the core of the Cheech and, you know, is part of the DNA that I think we are very committed to continuing.
SPEAKER_01:That's great. And again, you really hit it. Like Cheech mentioned this, you've said it, Margaret said it, we all talked about relationships. So I think it's getting women and everyone get their voices to the table here. We need to have that connection and making sure that people
SPEAKER_00:see their work. Part of the process is to dispel the rumor that Chicano art is only for Chicanos. You know, they're the only ones that can appreciate it. I like Matisse. I like Picasso. I like Kandinsky. I like all those artists because I appreciate it for the art. And to kind of put forth this message that we're in that category, where if you look at the art, we're in that category. So you can be Lithuanian or Zimbabwean and still appreciate that art. You don't have to be Chicano, exclusively the Chicano, to present it. Appreciate it. It might... ring a different bell in you than it does for somebody else, but it will definitely ring a bell. And it's getting it out in front of the people. The one comment I've heard over and over again as we toured the country with different sections of the collection is that, well, I didn't think I liked Chicano art, but now I'm seeing it for the first time. Oh, I like this. well that's Chicano art oh well then I like it you know so that's you hear that story over and over and over again and you just kind of smile at them okay well we'd like to do another show here so you can see even more and it's starting to get out the museum industry if you were the wheels grind exceedingly slow in that world because it is the final imprimatur of social acceptance of artistic acceptance and community and whatever standard you want to put up. But it's the final imprimatur. It's in a museum. Now you get to bring the school kids in it or the elderly or whoever is visiting your city gets to come and see it. So it's a big deal to have the accessibility. And that's always what Chicanos are trying to get. We want the opportunity and opportunity is the biggest road we can go on to. So we're getting there. It doesn't happen overnight, obviously, but it does happen. And every step along this way has been a joy for me. to see the art in different places and see the reaction of the people. I
SPEAKER_05:don't think anybody else works harder for the Chicano art community than Cheech. It's exciting that you're getting the Cheech together, that it's coming together. And I'm excited about being at the Ventura County because I just feel like, okay, You know, it's not the end. I mean, your life, even when you step away, it's not the end. You leave something behind. You've made a contribution.
SPEAKER_01:That was actually a great segue, Margaret, because the question from Craig Blue is, do you think you're leaving a legacy as an artist? And if so, what is it? And how do you maintain your authenticity?
SPEAKER_05:Let me tell you, you know who Craig Blue is? Craig Blue, I love you, Craig Blue. Craig Blue is an artist and he's in New York right now. He was staying a couple doors down at the Rock Rose Gallery, and he'd come in and work with me. He put his portfolio together, and he went to Laguna Art School. And then he got his MFA. He's in New York. He's big now. But let me tell you, his success is something that is so close. to my heart. He's African-American artist who's doing these wonderful pieces at the governor's mansion right now. That's my legacy because you can leave a painting. Painting is just a painting. It's a process, right? But your job as an artist isn't just to make art, it's to create community. He is part of my community. He is a beloved person who is part of my community. And he and David Flurry and Bonnie Lambert and Kiki Eder and Huberto Luna and Natalie Fertino and Gloria Vasquez Warner. And I mean, I can just go on and on. Salvador Correa. Oh my God, he's becoming a monster painter. These people who... You know, you leave people behind. And they keep the process going. They keep moving it forward. I mean, I am really grateful for that. Love you. Love you, Blue. Thank you for being there.
SPEAKER_00:Ana, I'd like to ask you a question. Do you have any fire paintings in this upcoming exhibition of Margaret's?
SPEAKER_04:We do. So when Margaret and I talked about putting this exhibit together, because we have a very specific mission, especially showcase art from Ventura County and the surrounding area, something that I've stretched over the years to go all the way up to San Luis Obispo and down to, well, we're down to almost Palm Springs right now. But one of the caveats was for Margaret was that she needed to paint something things, she needed to come and do some work in the area, which she agreed to do. So that was kind of our first sojourn out was in the aftermath of the Thomas fire. which really hit very close to home, literally for us. And I didn't realize that Margaret had done some fire paintings before this. So yes, to answer your question, yes, there will be some fire paintings. She did a couple that I think were sold through Chimaya and were purchased by some of our local collectors. So we will have at least two, I believe. We have some pastels.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think those paintings are some of your strongest and people gravitate to them immediately because they're extremely emotional, which leads me to one quick, small question. How much of painting is a physical action?
SPEAKER_05:It's out of body thing. You know, I'm not aware of my physicality when I'm painting because I'm only thinking about here and the paint and I you know and then the day's over and I'm like god I'm tired but I don't think about it it just it's like singing you know you don't think about how you're going to hit the note it just flows out of you
SPEAKER_00:oh okay but you do get tired after a session huh
SPEAKER_05:Well, some things are quicker than others. I think that some things are thoughtful. It depends on the process you're going through.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Margaret, for sharing your work. Thank you for inspiring my path to being a collector. Check out Margaret's work on her website at margaretgarciastudio.com. Show notes, links, artwork, images that are referenced from today on the website. And again, I'll link it from Cheech's website as well. I do want to encourage you to save the date for our next conversation. When Wednesday, June 23rd, 4 o'clock. Pacific time. Cece Segura-Gonzalez is scheduled for Saturday, June 26th. Sonia Faye is on Wednesday, June 23rd. And then we're ending with Judith Hernandez on Wednesday, June 30th. And you can register online at riversideartmuseum.org. Please tune in again. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Goodbye. Chiflando me mido de frente Siempre si me enfrenta mi gente