Stanley is an award-winning designer specializing in digital products and leading business creativity. Founder of a NYC based, design firm - BeCurious Studio as well as educational brand, Brutally Human. I have been chasing usability and quality designs for the past 17 years. Inspiring businesses and creatives to embrace the new and do something different.
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Hi. I'm your host, Olivier :Bousette and today we're joined by Stanley :. Founder of be curious and award-winning agency specializing digital products where we talk about his agency's amazing journey and so much more
Olivier :Hi, Stanley :. Welcome to business, not 1 0 1
Stanley : Hey, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.
Olivier :Thanks, lets get right into it. Please introduce yourself and tell us about your business.
Stanley : Sure. So my name is Stanley : vag enough. I am a founder of a New York city based award-winning design thinking agency, where we create human centered experiences for powerful connections between people and brands. So in a nutshell, we work with funded startups to help them accelerate their growth and their future.
Does that make sense?
Olivier :Yeah, it does. It does. And what was your aha moment behind you? Sort of the spark that said, I need to launch this.
Stanley : I don't think it was an aha moment. I think from the very beginning of my career, [00:01:00] I, I knew that will be the end goal of owning my own business. I think that has always appealed to me from very early age. And I've had many businesses before this one. I think. And in hindsight, there were all kinds of steps, the necessary steps taken to kind of perfect this one.
So I think there's a lot of failures, but a lot of lessons to learn along the way I this particular agency was born out of necessity of accommodating my frequently traveling lifestyle. So being able to be remote and being able to work on a project that. One or two kind of gave him the birth to this be curious agency.
Olivier :That's an interesting sort of, it leads into the question, you know, did you have to have a major pivot after you launched, be curious or did you, was it exactly the way that it was envisioned from the store?
Stanley : Three years that this agency has been around. We've pivoted [00:02:00] quite a few ways and quite frequent. I think every year was a major pivot happening. I think it's almost like if you look at it as an infant, you know, as you learn to grow and you develop certain skills and experiences you change how you behave, you change how you operate.
So I think everybody goes through the journey of, you know, when you starting out. You want to please as many people as possible. And as you grow a new maturity, you understand yourself and the landscape that you're in, you start carving out a little niche for yourself, a little area that you kind of fond of and one XL and grow with.
Olivier :Yeah, that's true. And it taking on every project, when you start to really understanding what projects are financially usable to you. And I get that. So since you started be curious, was there any major roadblocks, something that really hit you that you hadn't expected when you launch.
Stanley : I think you know, most people on podcasts [00:03:00] or the conversations that I've had, they expect to hear some sort of a business-related rolled black, but to us, and to me personally, it was more of a. Personal and growth. I think really the biggest roadblock we've hit and it really amplified itself last year, which caused this latest shift and pivot was really.
The ability to understand yourself ability to understand what it is you truly want when you have to declare through all the noise and what the industry dictates to you to at the end of the day, really focusing like, well, what do you want from this? Or what is your goal? You're going to, you see when you start this race and you're competing against other companies, you look at the left, you look at the right.
And you're like, oh, I want to be like this person. Or I want to be like this company. And through that race, you kind of lose your own essence. So I think finding that was a very difficult journey.
Does that make sense?
Olivier :Yeah, it does. It does. And so sort of like leading [00:04:00] in with that question if you can go back and leave yourself a 32nd voicemail and say, Hey, watch out for this, or do this would it be anything or particularly would warn yourself or tell yourself to do.
Stanley : I think I would just say, just listen to your gut more, you know there's, there's a lot of people that will come along that will help you, but you have to understand the context of where that help is coming from. You know, somebody who is starting out or maybe as not as successful as you thought they would be giving you advice without really knowing your situation can do alias.
And I think oftentimes you, you should take that. Hello, you should take the advice as of course, as, as much as you can get, but you should really understand yourself first and really listen to your gut first.
Olivier :Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. Oftentimes we look at mentors and we assume they have all the answers and sometimes they mean well, but they can misguide you as well.
Stanley : Right? So that's the thing, you know, [00:05:00] I, and I've dealt with that, you know, having, having mentors, having, I think what helps us really not just to blindly listen to. But get as much data points as possible from vast networks. Not just, I'm not their mentor, but like books or, or magazines, or just looking and attending seminars, or just talking to people who are the same that are going through the same struggles and just listening to their journey.
So I think that helps you find your compass, your moral compass, your business compass, and then your north star.
Olivier :Yeah, that's a great point. And I, and I think this is partly why I do this podcast is to give people a bit of a different. On starting a business or running a business and having a business. That's what a great point. So switching gears a bit looking at your business today and looking at when you first started, would you have hired people to do certain parts of your business right off the bat?
Or do you feel like the way that you built up your businesses? Exactly the way it.
Stanley : I think this is a two-fold question. So I think I'll start with the one. So a lot of times [00:06:00] People start a business. And a lot of it is driven by pride or Hico. And I think having had previous experiences or working with agencies, global agencies, startups, but the excited agencies, you know, you understand your role in the game and the thing you have to be true to that you should always, and I tell that to everybody should always hire, find out what is your strongest point?
Focused on that as they found her and hired everybody else to do the job. And I think one of the biggest ones for me, I think from the start, I think you will always have that issue as you grow, and there's going to be different set of challenges and people that are there to help you along. I think from the very inception point of view, The one thing that I would strongly suggest is hire somebody to do your finances for you, your taxes, your finances, financial systems at tax systems are set up in a way that is a disadvantage for people who are not in this game.
So when you start your business, of course, money is [00:07:00] scarce and you enforce. File taxes yourself, file the paperwork, set up all your financial infrastructures. And oftentimes it's so wrong and it can really kill your business very quickly. If, if, if you're looking to expand, if you're looking to grow and it's not set up properly, especially if you're not having a tax person who understands the game, you know, you're missing out on a lot of returns, you're missing out on a lot of opportunities.
So I strongly suggest like financial is, I would say a number one.
Olivier :Yeah. So since launching your business, be curious, what has been one of the best marketing tools to grow your user base or community your customers?
Stanley : Just doing a great job for everybody. It's a silly as it sounds , but it's, it's a really, the most primal foundation of any successful businesses is that it starts with the experience you provide for your customers. And instead of trying to capture. And I as an audience of thousands. So you should just have to focus on capturing the hearts of them [00:08:00] and those 10 people will become your fence.
That will do all the marketing for you.
Olivier :Yeah. So word of mouth and referral business, that's really common in a lot of the businesses and certainly in agencies. So let's.
Stanley : It it's, it's common. Obviously when you're starting out and you're scaling, but at a certain point, you know, you no longer can rely just on that. You know, you, you will need an outside infrastructures, help and guidance of religious building out. Sales funnel in the sentence, because there's just so much, it can go word of mouth, you know, that well, dries up eventually exhausted eventually.
So you always want to balance it out with having as a structure behind it as well.
Olivier :Yeah, that's a great point. And sort of keeping with that point, how would you suggest somebody who's growing wants to grow their business the best way they can do it in this, in either an organic or in a paid way in your experience?
Stanley : I haven't done any paid engagements. I think I've [00:09:00] tried just doing some paid ads just to see what it's all about. I didn't yield any results from it. I think just building relationships is the strong. Foundation it's a long-term game, for sure. But so it was social media engagement. All of those are long-term goals.
The only difference between build-out and getting relationships is that it grows your, you know, your money numbers versus your vanity metrics of just followers. So I think if you're underperforming, if, if you're an agency or a founder that is doing less than 10 K I don't think social media is the right way for you to go, because it's going to take you a long time to get to where you want to be.
I think, you know what I mean? The, it needed to. Build your financial stability. And that comes from just building true, authentic relationships. Something that may take a month to a year to foster, but in the end, we'll give you a great result. Returns. You know, for example, I've had people that I've randomly met.
Instagram that I just friend and I didn't ask him anything. We just followed it and [00:10:00] liked each other. Or I've met somebody on LinkedIn and just interacted with them without really asking for anything in return. And then a year into this relationships, I'm presented with opportunities to like, I, this is Stanley : is good for that.
So, you know, I've, I've launched masterclasses because of connections like that. I, I have an ability to speak in front of audience. I have an ability to land a six-figure client because of just building this relationship. So if you think about it a year of just random chit chats, if you have variety of those going at the same time, you're fostering a potential list.
Six figure seven figure clients.
Olivier :That's a great point. And sort of running with that, it sort of leads into the next question about sales. Best sales tool. Is it you yourself going out to meet your customers and having the one-on-one conversations, or is it something else?
Stanley : Well, sales still in terms of being in front of people. In terms of closing a deal. I think those two are different and require different approaches. [00:11:00] Ultimately, a sale is made in my case, always by me. I don't think anyone in your company, if you're the agency founder or, or business. Can sell your business better than you because that's your baby.
That's the thing that you understand that if you've built it, you know, division and, and it actually shows to the passion when you speak about it with other people, I don't think any sales rep, any final, anything can replace that passion and that intricacy of knowledge of your business, but getting there, of course, you'll definitely need help.
And I think the best way to do that worked for us. Either outsourcing it to a marketing agency or really hiring people where you don't really necessarily train them. You hire people that are in the same spectrum that kind of have the same goal. So if your goals are aligned, you don't need to mentor them of how to do it, that they understand because you guys are working towards the same goal.
Olivier :Yeah, that's brilliant sort of changing gears a little bit. [00:12:00] Looking at your industry, what is one trend that sort of makes you really excited or really nervous. That's going to be affecting your business in the next few years.
Stanley : Well, in, in my space, there are so many trends that are coming from this, the social landscape there's design trends. There's, you know, engineering trends, you know, trends come and go. I think. Different capabilities in different developments. That's really what it takes. So for example, I think with the latest pandemic, no.
Is it trending? Yes, of course, but that's not a trend that has completely shifted the trajectory of how we go moving forward. And we think the only true trend that inspires us is innovation. I think that's an never ending trend that people who are there to kind of see how things are and how they can make it.
We'll always be there if, you know, from the inception of tiles and the patient is the only trend that moves us forward. Right.
Olivier :Yeah. Yeah. That's really well. Sort of, sort of looking at that now [00:13:00] and looking at your business in particular, where's one place that you find information that you keep up that sort of leads how you're gonna make your decisions about your business newspapers, newsletters, media, what kind of, what kind of outlets are you looking at?
Stanley : I'm really just talking to business owners and startup founders. I don't think there's any specific resource that I can rely on to kind of help. Guidance shaped how I move forward. The thing our customers are the ones that are shaping our business and their needs you know, changes in pandemic changes in innovation shifts are the ones that really drive, like what becomes realistic of, for example, would the now introduction of web 3.0, that's a fundamental shift that isn't just addressed in one particular channel that you can learn about it it's happening across the industries, across markets.
And you just have to kind of see, you know, where do you fit in the realm of that? You can be a follower and just kind of go with everybody or you can be on the forefront kind of trailblazing [00:14:00] of what that web 3.0 will actually look like.
Olivier :Yeah, that's a brilliant point. So I'm going to switch up a little bit. Now I'm going to talk about you, the entrepreneur more than your business. So one of my first question is. As you as a business owner, what is one thing or one practice that makes you productive? That's really something your go-to to stay productive.
Stanley : My routine and my discipline, I would say those are the two things that helped me. You know, I think everybody that's been growing up and in general thing, laziness is one of the things that we can all kind of share to different degrees. Some are more lazy than the other. And I think by overcoming that and really just forcing yourself into.
Almost routine mode allows me to kind of bypass that laziness because it's just like an autopilot. So all my days, all my weeks are set up like Bulletproof. I have a strict schedule that I follow a regimen, and that helps me achieve a lot more. Because it becomes part of just a, you know, automated routine [00:15:00] that I don't even need to think about it.
Like I know at 90 and I'm doing this, I know what 10:00 AM doing this. I know when I wake up, I don't need an alarm clock. Is there, you just get so used to it, you know, it takes 30 days to build a habit, but if you consistently doing it for years on and on it just, you don't even think about it so that I wouldn't say eliminate, but it lowers.
The urge to kind of, I don't want to do this, you know what I mean? Like there's certain things they just don't allow into your, into your mind and it helps you kind of become more productive in a way.
Olivier :Yeah. Great routine so important. So on that same theme, what is one thing that drains your time? Something that you wish you either, you know, like let's say Tech-Talk or social media keep strolling or something that takes up your time, like accounting or dealing with something that really, you wish you could take off your plate.
Stanley : I think, yeah, I think social media definitely has its place in this. I think the biggest. You know, I think the biggest time waster is, are people who don't value your [00:16:00] time. People who are consistently late. I think those are explained more than, you know, me spending time on social. And because time was the most financial resources we all share.
And time was that how I choose to spend my time. Shouldn't be relying upon how other people interpret that. So when people are consistent, late on people don't deliver on one day. No, it upsets me. If anything, it doesn't value. You don't value what my time was worth to me, whether I choose to spend it on Tik TOK or Instagram, or just reading a book, that's up to me because that's my resource.
But when somebody else messes with that formula, that's aggravating to me.
That's so true. So what is one piece of software or hardware that you or business definitely needs that you couldn't live without, but you will collide. You purchased.
Stanley : I think besides of the usual of course communication tools. I think the one true piece of software is Miro, which is a white board collaborative tool for everybody. I think that really allowed us as a [00:17:00] unit and especially working with clients remotely after the pandemic. And even before that, it really felt like we are in one space.
We are doing work in real time and we are ideating and coming up with. As a unit. So I think Miro is definitely a crucial cornerstone of our business, especially when we focus on design sprints, that design thinking, you know, the, the tools behind that, this is really just the whiteboard that that's where the ideas are born.
That's where everything kind of moves forward.
Olivier :Yeah, that's a great point. It's collaboration virtually. It's something that we've started to explore and have to do, and you'll find it on Microsoft teams with the whiteboard as well. And I remember at the beginning, no one wants to use it. It was something that everybody just said. Didn't know how to use it because they were so used to having an in person meetings.
And now it seems to be so intuitive just to go open a whiteboard and start doing mind mapping. And I think people are much more acceptive of that. So that's a great point.
Stanley : I don't know if they're accepted. I think they were forced to be accepted for that, because [00:18:00] if you think of us, you know, where are the people that are pretty dominant in technology that, you know, you're familiar with a lot of. Collectively in the, against the world population, we're still a small margin of those people.
You know, I have had clients who are. You know, a major company out in New York and they will completely derailed by the COVID. They were not equipped any of them to use any remote tools at all. It was a brand new concept to them. A lot of teachers you know, that's what the inception of whiteboards in the zooms and Microsoft teams came about is because teachers needed a way to conduct the, but that's becomes such a weird phenomenon.
You are now forced to learn new tools so much down your line. Like, you know, if you look at somebody like my parents or my grandparents, they're not really equipped to use computers, but if your life now depends on it, that you need to learn that that is a big strain on the productivity. It's a big strain on [00:19:00] budgets.
So schools that they're paying companies to you know, produce and now spending time for people to learn new tools.
Olivier :Yeah, it's it's true. It's something that's intuitive to in my field. So I'm used to LD technologies. I play with them all the time. I'm stay on top of it. So it seems second nature for me, but I've been working remotely for years. So all of this was sort of seamless, right? Yeah. So anybody who is like a freelancer or anybody who works from a coffee shop, this is.
But then you do have a large population of people who just were stuck. We're so used to their habits and their desk and their software and their, you know, their desktop. Yeah. That's a great point.
Stanley : But I think that goes beyond just, it just how we build products is, is fundamentally changing because, you know, if a dentist receptionist is hired to do a job and their job was to really facilitate the schedule over that. And now they have to learn all these different softwares that don't necessarily streamlined the process, but they need to integrate with a third party.
So now you're stuck learning a plethora of tools that [00:20:00] before, like, you're not really doing your job, then you you're there to learn new tools. You're there to learn new way. And you kind of forced to innovate on behalf of the companies who provide these solutions, because obviously you seeking their feedback.
Like how can we make it better as. The first portion of our COVID inception, I think from March of 2019, was it yet 20, 19, 20, 20, 20 yet I spent the first six months just talking to teachers so I can psychiatrist like, well, what happens to your, or what happens to restaurant business now? You know, and everybody's like, they're angry because there aren't enough solutions.
And at the same time, These are the things that we should be thinking about in the long-term right. You know how to make things much easier. Like, and that's the thing, like when everybody's so eager to return to normal, I'm like, I think the norm is broken. I think we need to kind of reinvent what that norm should look like.
Olivier :Yeah, exactly. And how the tools online software tools or SAS, the way that they're integrated in the way that they're taught on [00:21:00] how to be used has changed. Onboarding is now much bigger, whereas companies before. So the software and left you to try and figure out and play with it today, onboarding is much bigger and it's designed to be intuitive and faster to pick up.
So that's really interesting, you know, and this sort of brings me to another question, which is, you know, I assume you had a mentor or you had mentors over the years, and this is something that you felt was super important and you're starting in your early phases. And would you suggest people to get one or, or would you think it's better to get a coach, a business paid business coach?
Stanley : I, I don't think, well, it really depends for me personally. I didn't get a personal mentor until end of last year until I've hit something that I wasn't familiar with from my experience from before. And that's when you enter into seven figure stratosphere, when you enter in this space. You will now managing more than 10 people.
You know, to me, that's a brand new concept because even have worked before in in this industry in different style, [00:22:00] my management didn't sort of pass more than X amount of people, X amount of budgets. So, and now as I entered this new global. This is a big news for me. So of course I recruited help of a professional on that end.
But I think to me, and that varies from everybody. You know, I have people that I've mentored that have five other mentors. I have people that don't have any mentors that are, I think the best mentors are always going to be. And as, as we spoke early, you know, don't take everything a person says to, you know, as a, as a hundred percent ultimate truth.
This is their reality, the same way with like, when I mentor it's important to emphasize that this is my opinion, this is from my experience. This is not a hundred percent ultimate truth because your ultimate, what might be different. So it does help of course, to, to see an outside perspective from people who are experienced in this industry, but ultimately, you know, collect enough data where it's not just like one person telling you this is the way to go, because it may be the wrong way.
Olivier :Yeah, I've, I've mentored several startups and small businesses over the years. I [00:23:00] was part of IC Montreal, which is a Dawson college mentorship program. And it's something that I noticed was. When you mentor, you sort of tell people like I'm only here to be like a sounding board and to be a shoulder for you to just to have a conversation.
And I can help guide a little bit, but I'm not here to answer the questions. The perception most people had was that, oh, you're a mentor. You should answer my questions where I should go and get this. And it's like, no, that doesn't work. That's a business coach. That's, that's a consultant. And I think there's a, there's a discrepancy in how people see mentors and how some mentors see themselves.
I think some mentors feel like they should have all the answers and that can be really misguiding to people.
Stanley : for sure. And I think also a lot of people that I mentor, they come with the notion of literally, this is my problem telling me where to collect them or where to go, where this is solved and that doesn't work that way. And a lot of people get frustrated like why, why can't you help me? You know?
You have to kind of, I guess, you know, teach them how to fish so they can fish forever instead of just giving them the fish. And, and a lot of people find that frustrating, but that really [00:24:00] speaks to kind of their character and what they kind of expect from things. And I think that that goes away with time as, as, as you go through the trials and tribulations, but it also that separates people.
Are willing to stick it out and like, you know, and that defines them much as a true entrepreneur. You know what I mean? Because that's, it's not a title, it's a lifestyle. It's it's how easily are you willing to overcome your obstacles? And to what degree? You're willing to stick it out.
Olivier :Yeah, those are great points. So I want to switch it up. Now, this is a new question. I'm asking people because it's something that's been brought up And I think it's really important. Certainly. Now you're talking about, if you have a bit of a team you're dealing with a lot more stress, what does. Theme of support that you create in your work atmosphere for wellbeing.
Is there, do you use a software? Do you have something that you go to like employee night out or obviously with COVID restrictions of changes, but what's something that you do to keep the wellbeing, mental and physical wellbeing of your team and your.
Stanley : And I think it's super important. I, I, one of the reasons I started this agency and the, [00:25:00] with the notion of how it started, this is that I came from an environment where whilst completely mentally and physically burned down, you know, where as we spoke early, me being from New York where it's a really like a crazy.
Competitive jungle out there. And if you just slip up for a second and go forgotten and the best. And I think that created a lot of exhaustion, a lot of stress, a lot of just, and it eventually, it's not only just damages the team members, but it damages the projects as well, because you're not putting your best foot forward if you're constantly stressed, if you're constantly under deadlines.
So when I came into the exceptional decisions, Mental health was the most important thing. So what we do is I don't have a standard way of employing people. I don't hire you and I don't pay you hourly. I treat you as a team member as not, you know, maybe not on paper partner, but you are my partner.
You have a right to. And what your future looks like in this company, you have a right to say what this future should look like collectively, [00:26:00] as a team we spent every week, I spend one-on-one with each team member to just talk, not just work, but just in general, you know, how they feeling what's going on.
I give them the opportunity to everyone be a part of discussions. I think just having conversations and letting people be heard is number one, but also not taking on projects just because you know, there's money table, but really asking that, you know, Do you have capacity to take one more project? How would you feel?
How would your weekend look? I never allow anyone to work on the weekends unless you want, you know, I, I don't reach out to anybody. I might communication with clients and Thursday afternoon. So you don't hear from me to clients and I don't expect them to do the same. So unless there's absolute emergency, you know, I tried to keep that balance very clear.
Yeah. Part of moving to coming to Montreal and seeing the culture here that is a little more passive than it's a little bit more laid back, kind of showed me the way of like, you know, family life and personal life balance is super [00:27:00] important because that builds a true team, a true team that kind of gets behind you and your vision as well.
Olivier :Yeah, great points and so true. All right. One question. I asked every single guests and something that everybody really likes is to listen to is what is one book that has helped you in your. Career, it could be either a self-help book or business book, but one book that you would suggest everybody should read or listen on audible,
Stanley : Well, one that's like picking a favorite child.
Olivier :Or at least one.
Stanley : yeah, I'm a professional reader. So I love like books to me, a number one frontier for everything. So I think There's different books. Of course I can go on. And, and Elizabeth and the ones that stick out to me is, would be the enlightenment by Steven pink color, I think is a Canadian author which is just basically speaks about philosophy and humanity of progress of things and the innovation of things.
And I think the more applicable to me would be [00:28:00] a win without pitching manifesto by Blair ends. I think that one, I'm sure you've heard of it many times and probably have read it yourself. I, I, I think it's a. Bibles and plant help hand, pocket Bible that everybody should have and read at least once.
And it's a very easily can read it in one day for sure. But it just does an eye opening experience of just really understanding the human nature of negotiations, tactics, and just sales.
Olivier :Yeah, it was a really good book. Perfect. So I like this. This is another follow up question. I'm always curious about, if you could meet any famous entrepreneur business guru to have a coffee with and pick their brains, who would it be?
Stanley : I think there's a lot of them that I can say that would just be cliche and I'm sure everybody would say the same. I think for me David Martin was the founder of. Fantasy interactive would be a nice person to sit down with. I don't think is that no one in the spotlight, but he has been at the helm of an agency who I [00:29:00] see as the opera echelon in my niche of my industry of just innovation and digital product building.
I think definitely that person or another one would be. Tobias on Schneider. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's a, a XR director for Spotify, but he's definitely the, one of the most prominent designers and entrepreneurs in space that just works constantly to innovate and make life of designers easier.
Olivier :All right. Nice. Very nice. All right. Well that's, that's it. My last and final question is how could people reach out and connect with you the best way?
Stanley : The best way you can go to my website, my personal website, which is brutally human.com and they will have all the information available. You can always connect with me through LinkedIn all day. All the links are there and my media kit is available there as well. We're actually in the process of redesigning it now.
So the new version will be out early. Well, yeah, all the information is there. All the social [00:30:00] links are there and I'm super responsive on LinkedIn and Instagram as well.
Olivier :Perfect. Add on the show details. I want to thank you so much, Stanley : for joining us today. It was an absolute pleasure.
Stanley : Thank you, Olivier :thank you for the opportunity. I know we had this speaking about it, electric or late last year. We'll guys connected and I'm super glad we finally get to do this together.
Olivier :Yes, me too. It was super interesting. Thanks.
Olivier: I want to thank you for joining us today. We hope that these podcasts give you some insights from the stories and experiences of the founders, entrepreneurs, and business owners who share with us. And we hope that you find some useful takeaways that help you along your own business journey. Like always please follow and leave us a review until next time.