Business Not 101

The Journey of building a web development agency with Sam Moss

June 20, 2022 Olivier Bousette Season 2 Episode 20
Business Not 101
The Journey of building a web development agency with Sam Moss
Show Notes Transcript

Bio: Sam Moss is the co-founder of 1Click Agency which is a WordPress web development firm based in Upstate NY. Sam also hosts a weekly marketing podcast called B2B Made Simple.


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Olivier: [00:00:00] In today's episode. We have some shop. Talk about the journey of building at web development agency. Hi, I'm your host ID was said, and today I'm joined by Sam Moss. Co-founder of the one-click web development agency. And also host the weekly marketing podcast called b2b made simple 

Olivier: Hey, Sam, welcome to business. Not 1 0 1. Thanks for joining us today.

Sam Moss: Absolutely Oliver. I appreciate you having me.

Olivier: That's right. Okay, let's get right into it. Please introduce yourself and give us your 60 second business pitch.

Sam Moss: Absolutely. Obviously my name is Sam Moss. I own a web development company in upstate New York and we, we do web development for B2B companies. So we, we do maintenance on their sites. We do redesigns and then we do retainers. So we really are, are simple in what we do. And I think that has really helped us propel really the firm.

Olivier: great. And what was the aha moment that sort of made you launch this business?

Sam Moss: It wasn't really much of an aha moment. My dad and I actually co-founded this [00:01:00] together and it originally started out as. A full service agency where we did anything and everything. And we quickly realized that we were doing our, our clients at disservice by trying to do everything because we were jacks of all trades and masters of none.

So we, the aha moment was that we needed to niche down and, and become a specialist at something. And WordPress development is really what stuck out to us and what we were already good at. So we just continued to build that and that's really propelled us to where we are.

Olivier: See, you did have an aha

Sam Moss: Yeah, kind of a roundabout way of going about it, but

Olivier: yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting cuz the, it sort of answers my next questions, which was, you know, did you have a pivot you know, a change in your business and, and clearly we can see that you've realized that you wanted to niche down on into your business. So that's interesting.

Sam Moss: Yeah, we actually, we actually did have a couple of pivots the first, so we started in 2016, the full service agency, and then realized that there's just really a bad stigma that goes [00:02:00] along with agencies that do everything because it's just not the best work. And we wanted to really portray quality.

So we niche down in what we did. And then in 2020 you know, we were. The websites for small businesses. And then when the pandemic hit, we made another shift where we moved to bigger B2B companies and stopped building websites for small businesses. So that was really the second pivot that we made that kind of niche us down even more and has you know, continued to help us grow.

Olivier: That's very interesting. Yeah. I think a lot of people had pivots with coronavirus sort of hit their businesses in a different ways. So leading to that question, what was one of the biggest roadblocks you guys encountered when launching your business and sort of running your business in the first years?

Sam Moss: Be because we did everything. It was really tough to explain what we did. An example of that was my own wife was like, yeah, my husband does like marketing for businesses, I guess. And like, she couldn't even explain it. It was kind of funny. And at that [00:03:00] point that was. Kind of go back to the aha moment of, Hey, it is important for a business to be good at one thing.

And obviously people are gonna say, well, look at Amazon and, and look at Walmart and different things like that. But those are exceptions to the rule and they've been around for an extremely long time when you're starting out, you really wanna become known for something that people can rattle off their tongue.

We do WordPress development. That's super easy. So once I realized that it was Again, that aha moment. And it was tough because we, if we, if, if I couldn't explain that what we did, then a client couldn't explain what we did and why would they ever come to someone who like, they're confused about what their agency does because we weren't very good at messaging it and marketing it and explaining it.

So I think that was definitely the biggest roadblock. And again, going back to like doing one thing, obviously there are successful companies that do more than one thing. But if I would bet if you were to go back and ask them what they started with, I would imagine it was one thing. And then as you grow, you can continue to [00:04:00] add some services as you go.

But my advice would be start with something that you're good at. And then as you get some clients into your belt, then think about moving into something else.

Olivier: Yeah, that's a great point. There's a lot of people sort of overcomplicate their agencies and the, even we see this and when people are pitching their businesses or their to other businesses, it sometimes it's so confusing. Right. Cause if they have too many things and they try to, you know, sweet talk it into it and customers sort of may not grasp the full capacity of your business.

Sam Moss: exactly

Olivier: a really good. Yeah. So now leaning with that. If you can go back in time and leave yourself a 32nd or a minute voicemail, what would you say that voicemail? So, you know, watch out for this or do this instead.

Sam Moss: was happening to us. Yeah. It would probably be, do one thing starting out don't waste two years trying to do everything. And then the second thing would be pick an industry and really work it, sticking with it. I know B2B is very broad that can encompass [00:05:00] SAS manufacturing, a lot of different things, but it is more niche down than saying we build websites for anybody.

Because then no one is really going to feel like they're an ideal fit for you. So I think that would be what I would say is, you know, just do one thing and don't overthink it. Don't overcomplicate it.

Olivier: Yeah. Become like the expert of that one single niche

Sam Moss: Yeah. Become a specialist. That's really the position that we've taken is working to be a specialist in our field because every every other agency is what I would call a generalist that wants to do everything. And. It kind of speaks to itself. What you'll get from that.

Olivier: Yeah, that's great points, you know, sort of changing gears a little bit because you are a marketing agency, right? So you have that sort of ingrained in you. What would be one of the first things, if you could go back and say, I should have hired this person, or I should have hired a consultant or a coach or something to go and lead us a different path, or to simplify my workload and allow me to constraint.

Was there anything [00:06:00] like stood out to you or was it just always just you and your dad and you know, to do the whole business?

Sam Moss: At first, it was the two of us. And I think that we brought on our development team at the correct time. Because now I don't do any of the operations. I oversee some projects, but I'm not in there building websites. And I think an imp important thing is that early on, it was my dad and I building websites.

And I think that that's actually kind of cool because now when I, so now I do sales and marketing for us. Right. And if I didn't understand what goes into a website, because I had grown the business, doing it myself and with my dad, then I wouldn't understand. What I'm talking about in the conversation.

I've had the hands on experience to be able to relay that information and my experience in a call or through the marketing. And I think that that's actually been very helpful for me. And it's not for everybody because obviously, like I was trading. Hours for dollars in a way more of like a freelance web developer.

[00:07:00] But as we continue to grow, now, we have a team of web developers that handle our projects. We oversee 'em and make sure they get done. It's, it's kind of cool how it worked itself out.

Olivier: Yeah, that's a great point. And, and so. Difficult for small businesses when they're launching, right. You have to sort of wear every hat. One thing that's I remember one of my mentors told me it's like, know what you don't know and hire that person who does know. And I sort of live by that and it's worked in most cases.

Sam Moss: Absolutely. And honestly, at first when we were building sites for small businesses, I, I would think to myself, dang, there's not gonna be anybody like that builds a site. Like we do that. I would even want to hire and bring on to do this work. And. Once I realized that I'm really not a the pro by any means.

And there's so many other better people out there that can do it. It was such a weight lifted off my shoulders to focus on really what I'm excited about, which is growing a business and being the leader and and to get those things off my plate. And you're absolutely right higher for the things that you're not the best at.

Even if you think you are the best, I'm sure there's someone out there that's better. [00:08:00] Yeah.

Olivier: else I noticed.

Sam Moss: absolutely.

Olivier: So it, now this is a, a funny question, because one of the questions I get when I talk to marketing agencies or anybody who is in marketing what is one of the best marketing tools that you've used in your agency to grow your business? Has it been something like word of mouth or, you know, ad campaigns?

Sam Moss: For us, it was LinkedIn 100%. So anybody that's listening to this, if you have seen me on LinkedIn, you know, I'm pretty active, I've taken a little bit of a hiatus just because we're getting, we're going through a pretty big website launch right now. And doing like a, a repositioning sort of thing for us.

So it's taken. Pretty much 99% of my focus, but once I'm back and more active, I'm posting five, six days a week. And that's what I've been doing for the past two years. And it's really definitely the key to success for, for what we've had going on, especially since the beginning of the pandemic.

Olivier: Yeah. You know, I use LinkedIn, I'm a big LinkedIn user. I love it. And I so agree that it's the consistent [00:09:00] posting and being the voice. The same voice is really important. If you do it sporadically, I notice you, the traction's not there. So that's really interesting.

Sam Moss: Yeah. And I'll have to, once I jump back in, I'm sure it will be like getting some traction back under my feet, but thankfully I have a nice base of followers, so it's, it might be a little bit easier, but I've taken some short breaks before and been able to jump back in, which is good. And I don't recommend obviously doing that after you've gained momentum, but what we're working on right now is like really taking all the focus that I can go.

Olivier: Yeah, that's really good. What would you suggest people post about? Cause I think this is one of the hardest things when you're a B2B business is how to keep it relevant constantly without inundating with the same sort of information. So what's one of the tricks you use to keep it sort of fresh.

Sam Moss: I would say focus on educational pro content instead of promotional content. So what I mean by that is instead of us saying, Hey Here's our services buy from us and then posting on LinkedIn. We would say, here's what I have learned about [00:10:00] websites in the past month. And then do a list of here are things that you can take today and implement on your own without us doing it for you.

So anything, any content that I put out? I always think about my ideal buyer. I have a couple in my mind, I literally picture their face. I'm like, man, would they find this helpful? Or would they be like Sam's just trying to sell to us. You should always come from the side of education or entertainment or trying to help someone instead of trying to get someone to buy, because that's what they're gonna remember you for.

And they're going to consistently follow your content. And then you are going to be the specialist in their mind when the time comes and maybe it won't for them. It's, it's only going to be a very small sliver of people that actually do come to you, but it's generating demand. instead of constantly trying to capture it.

And that's where I think many people go wrong on LinkedIn is they're out there trying to get leads instead of trying to educate the market and maybe push some people into a buying cycle that, that weren't ready because you've educated them on some things that are wrong with their [00:11:00] website or maybe some things that they should do better.

And this is websites are just an example because that's what I'm posting about, but anything that relates to your business, that you can educate the market on. That's what I would consider good content.

Olivier: That's great points. That's great points. And typically in your sales flow because you're educating your customers through LinkedIn, and obviously you're probably getting a lot of lead generations. Is it customers directly coming to you and saying, Hey Sam, I have this website I need to fix. Or is there a lot of times where you have to pitch your services to them there still that you have to go and chase your customers down and pitch?

Sam Moss: We have done zero chasing and zero pitching. Everyone that's come inbound, whether it's through LinkedIn or through our website. It's been, Hey, I've been listening to your podcast or two. I've been seeing your stuff on LinkedIn would love for you to take a look at our website. Hey, we have this big redesign that we're going to be going through.

Can we talk? They, they know what we do. Because we're super clear. My LinkedIn headline says it. And I think that's something that we're, a lot of people just [00:12:00] go wrong is they overthink it. And then they post content that really either doesn't relate to their business or it's promotional. So no one sees it gets buried in the feed.

And then they're you know, they say the channel doesn't work and then they give up after a month.

Olivier: Yeah, that's, that's really interesting. So you have a lot of you know, sort of passive marketing because they're coming to you and sort of leads me in something you, who you said about podcasting. Cuz it's something I do

Sam Moss: mm-hmm

Olivier: and people. To realize the value of podcasting, which has been sort of in the fringes.

I think for a long time, I've been long listener podcast for years and years when I jumped into it, I didn't realize how many people create podcasts, but how very few of them actually carry on and continue past a few episodes. But I'm starting to see there's a huge advantage to having your voice out there.

Certainly for a corporate even image. Are you starting to see that companies are looking at that? Because of what you're doing and sort of amplifying your business through podcast, and you're starting to see some of your customers saying that'd be something interesting for us as.

Sam Moss: Yeah, and [00:13:00] we take a, a different approach to our podcast than. You know, portraying expertise. So on our podcast, our ideal buyers would be B2B marketers. So we create educational content for them. So I interview B2B marketers that are peers of our ideal buyers. We bring 'em on the show, or maybe they're people that they look up to.

I interview them and I really am thoughtful of asking questions. That would be really interesting and helpful for our listeners. So because of that, people are listening to our. They're realizing what we do, even though I don't pitch myself on our podcast because it's not hard to figure out what we do.

And then two, we're building this brand affinity because I'm in their ears every weekend. When they're walking the dog out for a run, whenever they're listening to the podcast. And then every once in a while, we'll do a one off episode like this, we'll reuse this, we'll throw it on the podcast and it's not necessarily talking about B2B marketing, but it's another avenue that people can learn about what we do and build that affinity and be like, oh, that's kind of cool.

That's a cool founder [00:14:00] story from Todd and Sam with one click, right. Just hearing like. Where we came from, what we've done, the pivots we've made. And as a consumer and as a buyer, I actually enjoy listening to that stuff. Some of my favorite brands, I love kind of hearing where they originated from the pivots they've made, where they've gone wrong.

And we try to mix up the show and, and include some of that stuff. But the core of what we do is not talking about our services and our expertise. It's bringing on peers in the industry. Having them talk, get them excited, share it on LinkedIn. And then really that's what attracts people to our brand.

And it's, it's slow going at first and it takes a lot of consistency, but it does begin to snowball for sure.

Olivier: Yeah, it is. It's a slow process, but I agree it, it can really amplify a business and, and a person's voice. So I was curious. How much of your business is referral and word of mouth. Like since you are sort of [00:15:00] creating this passive posting out there and giving advice and giving, you know, technical information and customers coming to see you, do you feel like you're getting a lot of referrals back to you from these customers?

Like they're saying, oh, you should go see Sam at one click.

Sam Moss: Yeah, I will actually get LinkedIn DMS. Like a triangle. So to be the referral, it will be the, the buyer and then myself. And they'll say, Hey, you know, Sam does website work, incredible content on LinkedIn. This is who I'd recommend for this project. Get referrals. That way. Another way that has been starting to pick up is more like a dark social feel where people will post in marketing groups and slack channels and say, Hey, this is, this is who I'd recommend for this.

And I can't track that until they come to our website and tell. Either. I heard you from DGM G's marketing group and I'm in the group. So I can kind of see some of the comments, but it is interesting to see like where the referrals are coming from. And I think inbound wise, I would say probably 25% off the top of my head.

I don't know if that's a hundred [00:16:00] percent accurate, but probably 25% of the business that comes in is from referrals.

Olivier: that's I mean, that's just a high number, even, so that's pretty incredible, but it shows you the power of conversation. Versus just hard selling or, or just advertising.

Sam Moss: Yeah, absolutely.

Olivier: Cool. Cool. So one last question on that. Where do you get most of your, I would say industry information from, are you getting it also from LinkedIn or are you sourcing it from a newsletter or another podcast?

Sam Moss: My favorite interest podcast to listen to would be stated at Mangen. By Chris Walker, I really enjoy his thoughts and his views on marketing. And I think I listen to that one probably the most, every once in a while I scroll through LinkedIn, I really actually don't spend that time, much time consuming content on LinkedIn.

A lot of it, sadly is kind of superficial. I think that really depends on who you're following. So I try to be better about that and unfollow just people that post fluff, but The majority of where I consume marketing content would be definitely that podcast. And they do what they call like an AMA.

So they have people on the show asking [00:17:00] questions in their live zoom calls, and then they throw that up on the podcast. So it's interesting to hear the questions that other marketers are asking. And then obviously the refine labs view on marketing is. Very solid as well. So that's definitely where I learn a lot.

That's why I enjoy consuming. And then obviously I enjoy reading books and just talking to other marketers on our podcast. It's a fantastic way to learn. Mm-hmm.

Olivier: Yeah, no, that's so true. And it's funny how we consume information. I find podcasts allow us to consume it at our speed in our. Whereas other sort of like if you use clubhouse or, or even Twitter it's live and so fast, you really have to either be a hundred percent paying attention or else you're not gonna be able to follow the conversation, whereas podcasts, you can pause it, come back to it a day later.

So that's brilliant.

Sam Moss: Yeah, same here, man. I it's easier just to listen to something in the car when I want to, or pop in some headphones when I'm doing laundry or cleaning the house. So it's a lot easier that way for.

Olivier: Yeah, so true. All right. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about [00:18:00] you as an entrepreneur, Sam. So first question, what is one thing that makes you really productive? What's your go-to productivity tool?

Sam Moss: Hmm, probably Asana, my wife hates it, but my whole life is in AANA. So I have different channels. My entire obviously organization is in Asana. So all our projects are in there and then I have one I help my wife with her business as well. She's an entrepreneur. So I have a channel for her that she will not join.

She says Asana's stupid, but you know, one of these days. And so I have all the things I need to help her with. And then I also have like a personal one. So I don't use reminders on my phone. Literally everything lives in Asana and I'm like, Really like an organized person. So it's all dated and reoccurring tasks pay off credit cards and things like that.

So obviously I would be forgetting a lot of that stuff if it wasn't in there. And then it helps me run the business as well. So I, I don't know what I would do without it, and I don't know what I was doing before. I guess I was running around a mess is really what was happening.

Olivier: Yeah, that's so interesting. There's also a notion that I use. That's very similar to [00:19:00] allow you to create all these different sort. Projects, and you can sort of collaborate with people and have your own channels and, you know, take notes and information. So I think that's super cool. And it's really important today.

There's so much coming in and so much around you that it'd be impossible to keep track of everything.

Sam Moss: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a life saver for sure. And I would

Olivier: Yeah. So now on that note, what is one thing that drains your time? You wish you could offload to somebody.

Sam Moss: never go back. Hmm. I think the biggest drain of time would be our podcast, but as the host, it's, it's tough to offload that to someone. And I wouldn't, I don't think I would want to just because I'm getting in the conversations with our ideal buyers I'm building connections in the industry. So it's more of a business development activity.

Than anything. And then obviously the marketing side of it is great, but as much time as it takes up, I don't think that's something I'd want off my plate. I think it's definitely something that's a pillar of our business and I think it's [00:20:00] really important.

Olivier: Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know it is. There's so much that that goes into it. So it's funny. I understand for, for myself, it's counting and I think that's the number one thing I cannot stand and I have an accountant, but I have to do. Because it's always his small business. So I have to do most of my work

Sam Moss: mm-hmm,

Olivier: and, you know, once or twice a year, I offload it to him.

And I always think like, you know, I just hate it. I wish somebody can just sit next to me and just do that part. That's the.

Sam Moss: See. Yeah, I'm actually a numbers guy, so I really don't mind doing that stuff. We have an accountant as well. I hate taxes, so that would drive me up a wall, but keeping the books isn't really too bad. It's mostly like, oh, it's tax season. Ugh, shoot me. Right.

Olivier: Yeah, and I think it's also different on type of business, because if it's a customer, you're doing a one invoice for one customer at a time, it's not so bad. If you're selling constant products in different price products, I think it becomes more complicated, but yeah. All right. So what is the one device that you guys at [00:21:00] your company that are, you have to have, you know, to be fully functional, that you would recommend people to have, like it's, you know, like your computer, your laptop, your iPad, but it's something that you would, you couldn't live without.

Sam Moss: Hmm, probably a few things. Obviously we're an internet based remote company, so a hundred percent a computer that's kind of like a no brainer, but I know I said it for personal life, but we couldn't get anything done without a project management software like Asana. And I know there's a bunch out there, so that's one, another one would be Oxygen.

That's what we build our sites on. So we have a license for that. I don't know if that would really pertain to other people's businesses. Let's think here HubSpot is great for customer management. So like a CMS. That's really good. Another one that people might not think about too much is we use the tool called hot jar.

There's similar ones out there, but it's for. It's not website analytics, but it's website behavior. So when someone comes to our website, we can see it will record their actions in [00:22:00] lifetime. So we can go back and watch a video of what they do. And then on top of that, they have a part of their software is called a heat map.

So you can see where people are clicking and, and what's sticking out to people. So that has given us some really incredible insights and also has shown. Oh, people don't, people think that's a link or people think you know, or try clicking here and it doesn't work. So it can give you quite a bit of feedback on what's going on in your site and help you troubleshoot things, maybe after a launch that maybe you didn't see and you can see where the flow of people go and you can make the appropriate changes to the site.

So that one's kind of like an underrated tool that we use. And then obviously LinkedIn, that one's a, a fantastic one as well. So I obviously rattled off a bunch there, but those are kind of our core tools that we.

Olivier: Microsoft clarity. That one it's like hot jar. It's I think

Sam Moss: Oh, nice. Yeah. There's a bunch of similar ones out there. So it's really what you're looking for is just screen recordings and heat maps. I think there's yeah, a few out there for sure. Hmm.

Olivier: yeah. It's so important you, until you use it, I don't think you really think about it. And then when you start using it and realizing where people are clicking a lot, and you're saying, why are they clicking there? Like they assume there's [00:23:00] action from other sites. So it's really interesting. Yeah. So a little bit of a switch since you're a small enterprise, how do you guys deal with wellbeing?

Like, what's one of the things you do for your company or at your enterprise to keep in, you know, mental and physical health.

Sam Moss: Speaking for myself, I think

the gym is extremely important and sleep is extremely important. I couldn't function if I was getting six hours of sleep, five hours of sleep per night. So it's really important for me to get full eight hours and because I need to be functioning at the very best that I can. Decisions are being made.

Projects are being done. Content is being created and if you're half asleep throughout the day, just constantly tired, then you're not going to be doing that and firing all calibers. So I think that's a huge one. And then obviously, like I said, The gym, I go five, six times a week. No, probably not six times, five times a week, at least.

And then really just it's, it's a health thing for me. I'm not really a great eater by any means, but we'll start at the gym and, and see what happens.[00:24:00] 

Olivier: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Well, that's good. That's good. I asked that question because I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast who are either running their own little businesses or starting to get into it, that there's something they had never asked yourself. Like when I first started, I never thought about it.

And then I realized you can go through a burnout, like certainly running as a business is so. Hard on your body and your mind. So I start to ask that question to get what people do.

Sam Moss: yeah, it's a good one. Another thing. Is just to decompress. And what I mean by that is take out the headphones. You don't have to constantly be listening to a podcast and just drive in silence or go for a walk in silence and just let your brain just run. As entrepreneurs it's like, you always have con you constantly have ideas, but there's so much going on that maybe you're not hearing them.

So that's something that's important to me. I don't do it. Maybe when it gets warm out, I'll, I'll do it more, but it's just actually letting your, your mind wander and I've come up with some of the best ideas just from like [00:25:00] sitting back and, and seeing what happens and just sitting in silence, walking in silence or driving in silence.

Olivier: I walk my dog through. And I'll most of the time I'll listen to podcast, but every so often when something's bothering me, certainly when, like, you know, you had a difficult morning or a difficult afternoon, I like to just sort of rethink and sort of go through the conversation and just walk my dog. And I just sort of shut off MyPhone and just listen to the, you know, sort of what I'm doing.

I think that helps a lot just to calm down, re re sort refocus and rethink what happened. So that's good. All right. Switching gears a little bit. Do you, or have you had, or do you currently have a mentor or a business coach? And if you do, would you suggest people have.

Sam Moss: I don't have a business coach. I kind of have a mentor. It's more of a friendship by you know, if we were to really label it. It's an industry partner and it's funny. We're like friend predator. So we do the same thing [00:26:00] and we don't care about sharing like the inside scoop on like what we're doing with each other and like giving each other ideas and bouncing ideas off each other to see like, you know, what works, what has helped us in the past.

So that has actually been really incredible because we've both been able to help each other grow our web development firms. And it's funny. It hasn't happened often, but every once in a while, we'll have a buyer reach out to both of us and it's like, Hey. So we're actually transparent. Like, Hey, just so you know, we're in the same marketing group, they may have reached out to you because that's where they said they found me.

So that's how close we're, but it's, it's kind of cool to have someone who like, literally does pretty much the same thing, but we're we're good friends and we're able to bounce each other ideas off each other. I think that's important. You could even, you know, if someone's listening to this, you can do that as well.

For us we're on different sides of the United States, but because we're remote People can do business with us from anywhere. So we are always competitors at the end of the day, but you know, if you're, if you're listening to this, I'm sure that there's someone that you could have come alongside you that can just be more of a [00:27:00] friend and say, Hey, you know, I've kind of gone before you with this, even though we do the same thing or maybe we're in the same stage.

And that's really been very helpful for me in helping me learn and grow what I'm.

Olivier: Yeah, that's brilliant. I think it's really needed always to have somebody can just talk to and bounce ideas. Certainly somebody who understands your business, if it's somebody who doesn't, it's even harder to try and explain certain things. Yeah, that's really good. All right. This is one question I ask everybody, which was originally started to be just like, was meant to be a random question, but everybody loves to hear this is what is one book that you've read or you've listened to that has impacted your business life.

Sam Moss: Hmm, I'll name off a few. We'll we'll do some bonus points here. The one that has directly impacted our business and our go to market model or motion would be content based networking by James Carberry. It really gave us a model for our podcast. And I would highly recommend listening to [00:28:00] that even as marketers.

Cuz obviously a lot of marketers are listening to this. I'm sure that's a really good one to listen to. The next one that I just love as a marketer is building a story brand by Donald Miller that kind of sparked my love for marketing, to be honest a lot of great concepts for sure. and then another one I really like is called the 22 imutable laws of marketing, which is phenomenal, just seeing marketing through history and really like there's 22 ways that you can do it and laws to marketing at the end of the day.

And it's interesting to see how different industries in different businesses and different companies over time have used those laws and how you can apply them to what you.

Olivier: Really interesting. Really interesting. I, I haven't heard of the last book, but the other ones I had, so that's great.

Sam Moss: easy read or listen, I've, you know, I always like to get the audio version and the, the paper back or hard co hard copy, whatever you call 'em. Just to have both, but very easy read, very informational and super informative. It'll open your eyes to marketing for sure.

Olivier: That's [00:29:00] brilliant. All right. One of my second to last question. If you can have a coffee date with any entrepreneur, who would it be and why?

Sam Moss: that's a good one.

You know, it's really interesting to see what UDI from gong has done. That would probably be my, my top one, either that, or maybe. Dave Gearhart, but Dave, Gearhart's pretty active on, on social media. So it's easy to ask questions and stuff like that, but you don't see much from, from UDI the CMO at gong.

It, he has a brilliant, brilliant mind. So I think that would probably be my top one right now, if just on the spot, trying to think of someone pretty incredible what they've been able to do.

Olivier: Yeah. Yeah. That's first. Yeah, not too many people would think of that, but yeah, it's true. excellent. Excellent. All right. So this sort of wraps up our conversation. And the last question I'm gonna ask you is how could people reach out to you? What's the best way to reach out to you?

Sam Moss: The best way you can do that [00:30:00] is you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Sam Moss. You'll be able to find me there. Or you can go to our website one click and connect with us there. So pretty easy to, to reach out.

Olivier: Excellent. Well, thanks a lot for joining us today, Sam.

Sam Moss: Absolutely Oliver. I appreciate you having me. It's my my pleasure for sure.

Olivier: Thanks again.

Olivier: I want to thank you for joining us today. We hope that these podcasts give you some insights from the stories and experiences of the founders, entrepreneurs, and business owners who share with us. And we hope that you find some useful takeaways that help you along your own business journey. Like always please follow and leave us a review until next time.