Influencer marketing is well established in the B2C space, yet how are brands leveraging influencers to best engage audiences in the B2B realm?
Join Laliv Hadar, VP of Marketing at InVision, and Rani Mani, Digital Media Customer Communications Lead at Adobe, as they discuss the world of B2B influencer marketing.
You will learn:
Influencer marketing is well established in the B2C space, yet how are brands leveraging influencers to best engage audiences in the B2B realm?
Join Laliv Hadar, VP of Marketing at InVision, and Rani Mani, Digital Media Customer Communications Lead at Adobe, as they discuss the world of B2B influencer marketing.
You will learn:
Laliv Hadar (00:08):
Welcome to the IVC Podcast, the Xcast, where we help brands navigate audience engagement in times of change. I'm Laliv Hadar, and I lead marketing here at InVision Communications. A full service audience engagement agency, we move people to action through connected experiences and integrated marketing solutions. We're here today to talk about influencers and particularly how they're being utilized in the business-to-business marketing space.
Laliv Hadar (00:39):
In marketing circles, and given the ongoing growth of social media, we hear plenty about influencers. However, this is usually in the realm of business-to-consumer marketing, and as a strategy utilized heavily by consumer focused brands. So think of Instagram or TikTok videos featuring content creators and, well, influencers using products, peddling services. You get the idea. But how are brands leveraging influencers to best engage audiences in the B2B space? Is this strategy core to brands in the B2B space? What are some current trends, platforms, and how do brands in the B2B space get started?
Laliv Hadar (01:21):
Today we'll be speaking with the true industry trailblazer that will help us uncover the world of B2B influencers. Rani Mani has extensive experience leading influencer initiatives at Adobe. Before we jump in, let's consider a few stats.
Laliv Hadar (01:37):
So once considered something that's just nice to have, influencer marketing is fast becoming an essential component in a brand's marketing arsenal. A whopping 93% of marketers have used influencer marketing in their campaigns, and it's now considered a key advertising strategy. Influencer marketing is also very lucrative. The market grew from 1.7 billion in 2016 to 9.7 billion in 2020. Last year, in 2021, it [inaudible 00:02:11] 13.8 billion. And this year, we're projected to hit $16.4 billion in influencer marketing. The numbers are staggering.
Laliv Hadar (02:22):
Let's get started. Rani, would love to have you please introduce yourself.
Rani Mani (02:27):
Sure. I'm Rani Mani and I do customer storytelling at Adobe. This is a fairly new role for me. I'm doing it for our digital media products and it's been super, super fun, Laliv, and I appreciate you having me here. Prior to this, obviously, I've done a lot of influencer marketing, both at Adobe and elsewhere, so happy to be here to talk about that very important topic.
Laliv Hadar (02:54):
Yes, indeed, and very fascinating. So yeah, let's jump right into our conversation. We're so happy to have you.
Laliv Hadar (03:04):
The first question I have is what does influencers mean in the B2B space? In what ways is it similar to the B2C space, and in what ways would you say it's different?
Rani Mani (03:16):
I always encourage people to think about influencers in the B2B space as the names, the faces and personalities behind your logo. They're the folks that kind of humanize your brand. We treat them as extensions of our team. They're that trusted, credible voice, and they're the subject matter experts and thought leaders for those topics and messages that really matter to a company. For example, at Adobe, digital transformation, trust, remote working, collaboration, those are all topics that matter to us as a company. And so we enlist influencers who also have a lot to say in those areas and they're considered trusted advisors in those areas.
Rani Mani (04:13):
That's how I would encourage people to think about influencers in the B2B space. It's quite different than what we traditionally have come to think about when it comes to B2C influencers. Those brands treat them more as an advertising buy. They become a distribution channel and they are your content creators. They typically have a very strong, strong social footprint. Most B2B influencers may not have that same kind of social reach, which is fine because at the end of the day in the B2B space, you are trying to encourage people to really trust and believe in the brand and take action, but it's not necessarily always about buying the product in the same way it is for B2C.
Laliv Hadar (05:13):
Fascinating. So really, it's about building trust and advocacy and the extension of the brand. Very interesting. How do B2B brands then go about finding influencers? You mentioned they don't always have, let's say, a tremendous social footprint as you would in the B2C space. Look for someone who has a couple of million followers on Instagram. Are you looking for different things? Are there certain techniques or good ways to go about finding them?
Rani Mani (05:46):
Often these might be the people that you're looking at at conferences. These are the people that have podcasts or have written books on the topics that really matter to you. In the case of Adobe, we're such an iconic brand, people are lining up around the corner to be affiliated with us. So for us, it's not as difficult in terms of getting a ton of references from others. We might start by working with a handful of influencers, who we have met at conferences or who our executives are referring because they're running in the same networks, whatnot, but then we will get a lot of references from the actual influencers that we're working with.
Rani Mani (06:35):
But for a brand who may not enjoy that kind of fame brand recognition, if you will, you certainly can find a handful of people that you are looking up to as thought leaders and see who they're following and who are following them on social. Even if they don't have a huge footprint, whatever footprint they do have, just see who is in their network. To me, that's the most intimate and effective way to find people.
Rani Mani (07:08):
Word of mouth, and also who's in one another's networks, and assess them that way. And then, of course, do research on them to see, are they talking about the things that matter to your brand? Do they have influence and a network of people that actually are an audience that are decision-makers and people that fit with who you are targeting? Because even in a B2C situation, just because someone has a million followers doesn't mean those are the actual audience that you're targeting, nor does it mean that they're able to encourage them to action, because ultimately audience does not equal influence. That's something most people don't fully understand and you fall into the trap of, let me go with someone who's got a huge audience, and yet they may not have the influence that you're really needing for whatever it is that you're setting out to do.
Laliv Hadar (08:12):
As you're looking for these influencers within the networks of each other, one thing I've heard Adobe reference our product evangelists. I'm just curious; does that mean the same thing as influencers, or is it a slightly different category of people that you work with? Is it product evangelists and social influencers? Do they correlate or work together or are they truly, in essence, separate groups, if you will?
Rani Mani (08:45):
I personally see them as separate groups in that product evangelists can be influential and they might be very well known. I mean, product evangelists in the Adobe lexicon, those are employees who actually get up on stage and do product demos and evangelize our products. They have somewhat of cult following and they usually have a really good social footprint and all of that. Our influencers on social media are typically external people, not employees, and they may not have the same product depth of knowledge, especially on the B2B space, but they're more thought leaders and subject matter experts in categories or topical areas. So that really is the distinction.
Laliv Hadar (09:39):
Great. Rani, would love to understand what are some current trends in the B2B influencer space that we should be mindful of and perhaps tracking? How have you seen this space evolve in the last couple of months and years and where it's going?
Rani Mani (09:55):
Sure. I think just like it's a candidate's market out there and that employees are really holding control and power in terms of where they choose to go and what they want to do. Similarly, I really believe it's an influencer's market in that I'm seeing influencers hold out for the right cultural fit when it comes to brands that they're selecting to work with and partner with. They are wanting to be far more involved in co-creating solutions for campaigns. That's no longer being order-takers and simply having the brand dictate what needs to be done. It's much more relationship based as opposed to transaction. Influencers are really wanting to understand what the brand's objectives are, how they can actually be of service in a way that is a win-win for both sides.
Rani Mani (10:59):
I feel like, Laliv, this is only going to accelerate as time goes on because influencers are really identifying their value and worth and standing by that and calling brands out when things are put forward that doesn't feel like it's meeting the moment or it's not right for the community that we're addressing. I wouldn't characterize it as pushback as much as just a lot more of a strong POV, point of view, on how things should be and what needs to happen. I personally invite that and welcome that, and I'm quite excited by that kind of ownership and leadership from influencers.
Laliv Hadar (11:49):
Yeah, it sounds like it's just highly strategic and truly embedded with the whole marketing strategy for these brands. I'm curious too; as you say, it's an influencer's market. What are some tactics that brands can employ to stay engaged and top of mind? So once you've found these influencers, how do you stay top of mind with them and engaged with them?
Rani Mani (12:15):
Honestly, treating them as humans. I always tell people when I'm coaching on teams about influencer relations, at the end of the day, it's a relationship. It's not a one-and-done and move on to the next shiny thing. I tell people think about it as dating with an eye towards commitment. And so just like you would cultivate and nurture a friendship or a family relationship or whatever kind of relationship, you let them know that you're thinking about them and you design give-to-take solutions.
Rani Mani (12:57):
Just like, Laliv, you would never ask a neighbor that you've never said hello to to borrow a cup of sugar. Similarly, you shouldn't just go and talk to an influencer only when you need something. Actually say happy birthday on birthdays. At Adobe, for example, we celebrate birthdays. We celebrate holidays or special milestones as a group in the influencer cohort, or for each individual specifically as when they're weddings or deaths or birth in the family. And similarly, always championing for what it is that makes their heart sing. Once I know my influencers up close and personal, and I know they have a book coming out, I'm going to market that book within Adobe, and see what Adobe can do to use our name and our platform to elevate what the individual is doing.
Rani Mani (14:06):
All of that to say, construct a give-to-take type of situation. Always figure out what's in it for them and make it a point to serve and to uplift and edify what they're trying to do. And tactically, I'll also say we do monthly happy hours. We have a DM group within Twitter so that the community can be connected to not only Adobe, but to each other, and really foster a really strong community of people, which has been really nice.
Laliv Hadar (14:47):
One of the things at InVision, we are highly focused on strategic communications and integrated solutions and lots of experiences too, and events. I'm curious; how the events and experiences factor into your influencer approach. Is that a big part of their involvement with the Adobe brand coming to your events and being a part of that? How does that play into your strategy with influencers?
Rani Mani (15:17):
We definitely use the events as an inflection point, as an opportunity to congregate. In recent months and years, as you know, we've had to turn a lot of our in-person events to virtual at first and now hybrid, and so it's been a little bit more difficult to stay connected. But we've done other things virtually, like the virtual happy hours or the group DM and whatnot. The events have been things that we rally around, in terms of engaging the influencers, but we've been very strategic in terms of making sure those were not the only things.
Rani Mani (15:59):
Adobe specifically has two big events; Adobe MAX, and Adobe Summit, and then we've got smaller events, but we want to make sure we have an always-on program and not just programs around events only. They play a role, but we've been very careful not to over-index on events.
Laliv Hadar (16:24):
Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. The ability to see an event as part of your integrated approach and portfolio, not just a one-and-done, is definitely near and dear to our thinking at InVision. So I can understand how ... There are peaks and valleys for you guys in terms of engaging influencers too it sounds like, and those are maybe the peaks, but there's a consistency there that you try to attain in your interaction with the influencers, it sounds like.
Rani Mani (16:55):
That's right. And it's a great place to go find other influencers as well. It's a great feeding ground for new faces and new names.
Laliv Hadar (17:06):
For sure. For sure. Absolutely.
Rani Mani (17:09):
An opportunity to deepen existing relationships, but not a place where we want to overdo it.
Laliv Hadar (17:16):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. You talked earlier about these influencers being an extension of the brand and advisors and trusted representatives of the brand, if you will, but considering they're not exactly in the organization, how does Adobe, or how does a brand connect these influencers? How do you ensure that they're connected to your overarching marketing strategy or that they're operating not within brand guidelines, but adjacent to, or in sync with, your overarching messaging to the market, if that makes sense?
Rani Mani (17:58):
We share our messaging with them. When appropriate, we will share brand guidelines or we'll give them internal briefs because they're under NDA and we bring them in. We very much treat them as extensions of the team. In fact, Adobe specifically, we call them Adobe insiders, to give that inside access and inside peak into who we are, what we're about, because ultimately we want them to have a really good understanding of how we want to show up and our brand ethos, because we want them to make a commitment to be with us knowing full well what they're getting into. And if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit, and we don't force it.
Laliv Hadar (18:44):
Well, let me switch gears a little bit. There's a kind of a trend I think that's been growing in the last couple of years, this notion of micro influencers. Just let me throw out a few stats. Is micro influencers a big part of the B2B influencer world? How should brands consider working with micro influencers?
Rani Mani (19:05):
I would say a good deal of the B2B influencers are micro influencers in that they don't necessarily have a huge social footprint, but they're highly engaged with their audience. They are actually responding to comments, and they're putting out very tailored posts. In my mind, they are an absolute treasure for the people to work with because they're actually encouraging people to take action, and they are actually swaying opinions and decisions because of how incredibly connected and engaged they are to their network. In a way, when you have 10,000 followers, it's far more intimate and you're able to do a lot more than when you have a million.
Rani Mani (19:57):
Yeah, I stand fully behind the value and worth of micro influencers. I'm not going to necessarily say you should exclusively work with them, but I think that's the bulk of who we work with on the B2B side.
Laliv Hadar (20:18):
What do you look at? What are some of the KPIs and metrics that you are actively monitoring when you work with a group of influencers? Go ahead.
Rani Mani (20:30):
It varies from campaign to campaign. Most typically, it's traffic. We're trying to drive traffic to certain websites. So it's traffic and clicks. Other times it's Share a Voice. If we're going to an industry event, we're wanting to know, Adobe's Share a Voice, vis-a-vis, competitors. Other times, it's social engagement. Sometimes it's brand sentiment. What kind of sentiment are we able to achieve through influencers? Those are some general ones that we look at. What I would really caution against is let's get away from, oh, we've got billions of impressions. I mean, those are vanity metrics that really don't translate to much.
Laliv Hadar (21:28):
Kind of switching gears to let's say you're a brand who doesn't have an influencer strategy or program, but you are thinking about starting one. What are some initial steps that you would suggest brands take in order to start an influencer program or strategy?
Rani Mani (21:46):
First and foremost, not to think about influencer program as something that's a bolt-on or separate, but more put aside the part about the influencer and think about what are you trying to do in marketing period. What are your pain points? What are you trying to achieve? And then use influencers as one other channel to your fuller marketing strategy. So come up with your objectives that integrate influencers into the bigger mix, as opposed to treating them as a separate thing that you're doing. It has to ladder back to your overarching marketing strategy and objectives. That's one.
Rani Mani (22:31):
And then two, identify those influencers that will be a good cultural fit and a good fit for your brand. And then from there, three, is actually sit down and co-create how that influencer can be in service of what you're trying to achieve. You might need to start with a brief, but don't be so prescriptive that there's not enough room for that influencer to provide an outside-in, a point of view and feedback on where they can creatively come and help, because that's part of what you're contracting here, is that outside-in perspective. A lot of times we, internal to the company, we're so caught up in what we're wanting to do we're not always seeing what's happening in the world. So don't cut them out of that is what I would say.
Laliv Hadar (23:35):
Fascinating. Wow. Well, Rani, thank you so much. This has been a super insightful discussion and topic. I want to thank you for joining us. Also, thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. Be sure to join us again soon for the next IVC Xcast Podcast episode. Thank you everyone.