What We Learned from Our First Pandemic: Event Experts and the Long Road Back

From Everything Everywhere to Something Nowhere All at Once.

Three years ago, the world shut down. InVision's Doug Binder and Corey Burton are still trying to make sense of it all, especially when it comes to their passion for creating events. Hold on tight for a spirited journey back in time, from ballrooms to video calls to hybrid to whatever comes next.

Listen now to hear stories from Doug and Corey on building resiliency in face of the Covid-19 crisis. Don’t forget to rate, review and subscribe to the InVision Xcast to stay fresh on the latest industry trends, technologies and insights.

Transcript

Doug (00:10):

Welcome to the InVision podcast. The Xcast is what it's called, Corey, where we help brands navigate audience engagement in times of change. So I'm Doug Binder. I'm a Senior Creative Director here at InVision. Corey-

Corey (00:27):

And I'm Corey Burton. I'm an Executive Producer here at InVision.

Doug (00:31):

So Corey, we're going to help brands navigate audience engagement in times of change. And we're going to do it without any data. There's not going to be any strategy. We're going to go back to, I think, maybe why we got into this business in the first place, which was, we love what we do. We love touching audiences, and I don't know about you, but I'm pretty hopeful going forward.

Corey (00:53):

Absolutely. We love making experiences and that's what we've all been doing for a long time. But then the experience changed.

Doug (01:02):

Well, speaking of that, I don't know if we first met when I went to Hall D at Oracle OpenWorld [inaudible 00:01:08] years ago, supporting the CEO of Intel.

Corey (01:11):

You may have been an interloper in my kingdom.

Doug (01:14):

Well, it was. I'll tell you, we walked into that room and it was massive. The screens and what you had going on, we were like, "Holy cow, this is the big time."

Corey (01:26):

It was.

Doug (01:27):

And that was you. That was you.

Corey (01:31):

It looks like me. When I'm the one standing there with you or with your CEO, it seems like me. But obviously, there is a cavalcade of talent on the other end of my clear-com. So I get to look like Zeus, but man, I've got the minions carrying the lightning bolts around. You better believe it.

Doug (01:50):

So I've known you now for 10 years, and you always epitomize the executive producer. You're road warrior; you're in the ballrooms; you're kicking iron around and yelling at road cases, and Sting knows you when he sees you.

Corey (02:08):

Yeah, right. For sure. Sting might know me if I tripped him in the street. Sure.

Doug (02:13):

Well, and Duran Duran. Come on.

Corey (02:15):

Duran Duran might remember me. Simon Labon lifted my kilt. So that's a good possibility.

Doug (02:23):

I think we can say that on a podcast.

Corey (02:25):

Sure. Well, it happened.

Doug (02:27):

So then my birthday three years ago... My birthday is March 13th, by the way. It's coming up. Friday the 13th, I was supposed to be in Hawaii, but we freaked out and stayed in California and drove to Santa Monica. And then freaked out again and went home and didn't leave anymore for two years. And in that first weekend, I'd still go back to, I know there were crews at InVision that pivoted as it was called back then-

Corey (02:57):

Ooh. That worked.

Doug (02:57):

And had a hybrid event going up on Monday.

Corey (03:00):

That's right. That crew had set up in a ballroom and were basically starting rehearsals. And that's when the hammer came down and very quickly they turned a live ballroom event into a streaming webcast.

Doug (03:14):

And I remember those first couple of weeks, it's like, "Oh, a couple of more weeks and we'll be back to the ballrooms [inaudible 00:03:21]."

Corey (03:20):

Let's stagger through this.

Doug (03:22):

So for you, again, but I won't overstate it by saying you are a globetrotter and event guru. What's it like to go from Hall D at Moscone to your garage?

Corey (03:38):

Yeah. You can't overstate the difference. I'll admit that I've done the traveling. You call me the globetrotter, but I really have been just about everywhere. And so I have seen it and I have done it. So even on this day today, I don't feel like I've lost anything by not traveling so much. And I don't really have that travel bug maybe like some people do. I don't itch to get to the airport. That's not my thing.

(04:06):

But really the main difference was to then start trying to produce a new experience for a client and not having the mastery, not having the crew, not having that familiarity. No matter how tough it was in Hall D, for example. It was 6:00 AM to 7:00 PM or 8:00 PM for days on end. It was a known quantity, and it was rarely an extreme experience for anybody on your crew. Everybody had done this before and everybody had a horror story that was way worse than this. And the insane client and the crews that didn't want to work. And you didn't get a meal and all this crazy stuff. But I tried to keep my shows not like that. But now I'm in my garage. And I'm trying to do everything through my laptop. How do you do this? Who do you even ask how you do this?

Doug (04:57):

Yeah. And people are still wondering that three years later. It's interesting. You talk about Hall D or any ballroom, and all the things you brought up involve people. So you're turning to different people on your team.

Corey (05:12):

Correct.

Doug (05:12):

There's your video crew. There's your show caller. There's the destination people. So you were surrounded by people those 14, 18 hour days. And then, to just be by yourself and like you say, just looking at a screen and trying to figure out, what's my role here?

Corey (05:32):

What is my role? How do I do it? And probably the most terrifying part of it is, how to answer questions that the client throws at you because we're supposed to be the experts in all of this stuff. And so if we're going to suggest a pivot, because we still want to keep this event on the road. And let me just remind everybody that in that first year, like you said, we didn't know when these things were going to end. So in March, we're talking to clients who are planning events in May. And we're still thinking we're going to go on site within a six month period. We're still thinking this is going to wrap up and we're going to go. So now we got to figure out, okay, well what's our cancellation contingency? What are vendors going to charge us if we do cancel a month out or two months out. How do we respend the money? Who do we have to pay for all these things?

(06:20):

So the amount of angst that we went through just in the not knowing. Those are the worst part of all of it, is not knowing what's that next step, when are we going to be able to do it, how are we going to do it? And then when the client finally said, "Okay, we're going to take it virtual," you breathe the sigh of relief because at least now you know something concrete. But then, the new terror starts because how do you do it? What's the platform? You can't get the platform guys on the phone because they're trying to help other people 24/7. What's the equipment? What's the team? Who makes it happen?

Doug (06:56):

And again, it comes back to people. So vendors were all shifting what they're able to do. All the hardware vendors all of a sudden got to find something to do with their kit.

Corey (07:06):

That's right.

Doug (07:08):

And I respected the fact that InVision had a vision for what it looked like coming back. I mean clean events and then flex. But even those changed every week.

Corey (07:21):

Absolutely.

Doug (07:22):

'Cause we'd learned something new or invent something new and all of a sudden, everyone wanted to do that.

Corey (07:29):

Well, we were constantly getting demos from vendors, partners that we had been using for years with what their new technology was, what the new kit was that they were going to send to the executive. It was a box with a microphone and a camera in it, or it was some 80 pound case that opened up like a robot that was going to do all the work for us. We went from the sublime to the ridiculous in our hunt for solutions.

Doug (07:55):

Okay. But did you send Cruise over in HAZMAT outfits to sell [inaudible 00:08:00]-

Corey (07:59):

Literally. Absolutely, yeah.

Doug (08:00):

... executive [inaudible 00:08:01].

Corey (08:01):

Yeah. Yeah. We'll set up in your garage. We'll set up in your living room while you're not there. Hide your children.

Doug (08:09):

It's the new normal. [inaudible 00:08:11]. Who thought we'd be ordering up HAZMAT suits to do our job? But one thing, I think, we learned early on and had to remind clients of too, is an event is really about people, minds coming together, sharing information. In our business, it's about getting a brand out there, getting a message across, changing behaviors. And we just don't do it in ballrooms for a while. But we got to use these little rectangles to reimagine everything we're trying to achieve when we used to all fly to Las Vegas or Orlando.

Corey (08:52):

Well that's right. And bringing up Las Vegas is a perfect example, is what kind of event or session did you ever design and execute that didn't have some entertainment value built into it? There needs to be a hook. There needs to be a laugh line. There needs to be something completely different that happens at some point. And in the ballroom, you can bring in the drum band. You can bring in the pseudo [inaudible 00:09:18] guys for 10 minutes. You bring in the celebrity speaker, which of course we kept doing. But now the celebrity speaker is at home somewhere.

Doug (09:29):

I know, but they're still making the same amount of money.

Corey (09:32):

Well do you know at the beginning, when we were first still formulating how we were going to do this, celebrities didn't know how to price themselves? So we'd talk to the agencies and we'd say like, hey, so and so we want, that they're usually 50,000 bucks for a gig. Surely they'd be less now because they don't go anywhere and it'll only take them an hour total. So what's it going to cost? And the answer coming back was, "We don't know. Make us an offer. What do you got?"

Doug (09:59):

Well, I remember being on a recording with Trevor Noah and from his living room where he's also doing his show.

Corey (10:08):

That's right. He did his show from there. Were we on the same one? I did Trevor Noah as well. He was great to work with.

Doug (10:14):

Well, he was great because we got on and we had all sorts of technical issues.

Corey (10:19):

We did.

Doug (10:20):

Okay. So I don't know if it was the same one, but I mean it spent 30, 45 minutes just trying to get his camera to sync. I think we were using [inaudible 00:10:30]-

Corey (10:30):

Right. And he had his sound or video guy basically living with him in his apartment. And they got it figured out from their end.

Doug (10:37):

And if he had walked into your ballroom and was on stage and we couldn't get audio-

Corey (10:42):

Or we couldn't get the microphone working.

Doug (10:43):

Yeah. He'd be like, guys [inaudible 00:10:45]-

Corey (10:45):

You look like an idiot. No, that's right. Well, because there you go back to the tried and true. This is something that we've all been doing for decades maybe. And so we're supposed to be good at this. And how can you not get a microphone working if you've got 15 people backstage, who this is what they're doing? But we all kind of... And through this lockdown and this massive pivot, sorry, we had a foxhole mentality. We're all in this together. The shells are exploding above all of us. So by that token, we get a lot more leeway. I'm going to give you some rope to get this right.

Doug (11:20):

Yeah. And there was no sense that he was frustrated. It was like you just said, it's foxhole mentality is that, yeah, guys, we're all figuring this out. So that's like the great equalizer is-

Corey (11:35):

It was.

Doug (11:36):

... names like him and Dan Levy and some of the others... And one of the first virtual concerts I remember was... Oh, those guys from Boston. Dropkick Murphys. And they're in an empty studio doing the show. And it's like, okay, well this is now entertainment. There's no one in the audience.

Corey (12:03):

Well, it ended up being like that, that video of a concert that you have on your phone that you wasted the experience of being there in the room with them by recording on your phone. And now you have it on your phone, you really don't want to watch it because it's got no energy. You don't feel like you're there.

Doug (12:20):

And you don't really remember the show because you were making sure that your battery was...

Corey (12:25):

Yeah. That you were focusing it above the girl in front of you kept jumping up and down.

Doug (12:30):

And that's another thing that we talk about, the great equalizer and celebrities being real people is, we work with a lot of CEOs and very important people. And when we see them in our normal jobs, they're coming into a ballroom to rehearse, do their part.

Corey (12:48):

They've got the cloud of EAs and assistants and the cherubim and the seraphim around them.

Doug (12:53):

Right. And people were lint rollers and whatnot. And now we're talking to CEOs who got their Peloton, where all their laundry is drying behind them. So [inaudible 00:13:05]-

Corey (13:05):

Yeah. This is where they live. Although did you notice that very quickly, the convention of, "We don't want to see your bed in the background," became the normal. That was the benchmark of, if you could drag a plant in from another room, that would be super. If you could maybe hang a picture somewhere behind you, that'd be great. But for God's sake, make your bed if it has to be in the background.

Doug (13:28):

Make your bed, get rid of your laundry. But the dog can stay. The dog can stay.

Corey (13:31):

Dog can stay. If the Amazon guy shows up again today, because Amazon came to all of our houses twice a day every day, that was what we were in for. And most clients understood that too. I had very few kickbacks on that extraneous noise that you'd get from life happening around you because that's where we are. I'm in my home. You're in your home.

Doug (13:55):

Yeah. And I'm inviting you in. Eight hours a day, we were having people... I don't know. Corey, did you actually look at people's backgrounds and think... Did you judge them?

Corey (14:07):

I'm not a very judgey person, but I would sometimes comment on things. I found myself often getting a little too personal with people. 'Cause I would pick up on stuff in the background. And most of the time, they'd be happy to roll with it. I had one executive at her kitchen bar. And she was quite impressed that I knew what a fiddle-leaf fig was. Because I mentioned that it made for a good background bit. But yeah, overall, I tried to keep my thoughts to myself, depending on the level of... If you're working with a DBA recording a demo, you can pretty much tell them, "Man, you look like you live in a sad little cave. What can we do?" When you're working with the CEO, you're a little more circumspect with your commentary on their lifestyle.

Doug (14:50):

Yes. Because they are surrounded by people who-

Corey (14:53):

Not then they weren't.

Doug (14:54):

Well, they should have said, you need to move the hamper away, or that painting is actually pretty inappropriate.

Corey (15:07):

Or have you looked at your hair today?

Doug (15:10):

Yeah. I did ask a very high level... Or I did warn a very high level executive that she had a booger. And you know what, I-

Corey (15:20):

You had the booger conversation.

Doug (15:21):

It was tough. You got to do it. And I warned her [inaudible 00:15:27]-

Corey (15:26):

I'm sure she thanked you in the end.

Doug (15:29):

No, she remembered me years later from me being on booger patrol.

Corey (15:34):

The booger guy.

Doug (15:35):

Yeah. So have you been back into the ballroom?

Corey (15:40):

I have. I have, yeah.

Doug (15:43):

What's your take?

Corey (15:46):

It's the same with the constant fear of bringing Covid home. I'll say that. Wearing masks in public now is a new normal. You'll always be able to get away with it. I still don't like Las Vegas. But [inaudible 00:16:02] overall, people are thrilled to be back together again. People are thrilled to be dropping back into the old version of what they were very good at, rather than the virtual version that we were all pretending we could be very good at. And sometimes we were. But sometimes the product was, "Wow, we got through it." And that was the best thing you could say about it.

Doug (16:26):

I agree. And I think that if you got through the broadcast and it could convey the right messages and the right training and the right experience, and like you say, you couldn't all of a sudden have a circ act show up on stage.

Corey (16:41):

If you had a client that would adhere to the notion that forget about the general session that we were going to do that we canceled and you're eating the money from the venue because you're not going to get it back. Forget about that show. Now we're making a TV show. Those who would embrace that, we made great product because they kept the commentary a little bit shorter. It was more bite sized. There was fun interstitial stuff in between. I would tell my presenters when we were recording, be interesting, be a more animated version of yourself, be twice as bright as you normally are because anybody watching you has the dog, the door, their phone. Every single person watching you is on an aisle seat in the back row and they can get up and leave and you won't know. So you got to give more.

Doug (17:31):

Yes. And that's why going back live, which I've done now three times with relatively big audiences, over a thousand, which I think is big [inaudible 00:17:43], is to see people stay seated. You have their attention. But I'll tell you, the first time I heard laughter from an audience and applause, it just went right through me.

Corey (17:54):

Goosebumps. Yeah.

Doug (17:56):

Oh my gosh. And not that we're out there for the acclaim or for showbiz, but it was like, this is human again. This is [inaudible 00:18:07]-

Corey (18:07):

We in production and the artistic parts and technical parts of production have a very specific perversion about us that we are thrilled by reaction. And if we can point at it and say, "I helped create that reaction," so much, the better. But that's not what's important. It's that we are part of the agency that executed this moment that allowed for all these people to react at the same time with the same kind of a feeling. That's the thrill we get.

Doug (18:35):

And that's our part of the job.

Corey (18:37):

That's right.

Doug (18:38):

Sometimes we do come in with messaging and strategy and brand and everything else, but our part of the job is to help our clients get a reaction out of their audience, ideally a positive one.

Corey (18:50):

When we were still in lockdown, we did a kickoff for a small software company in Boston. And we convinced them to rent a full studio. We set up a tonight show kind of a thing. They bought into the live band. So we have the live band. We had the interview area. They have an internal podcast. We had the hosts there at the podcast desk. But then we had open mics in the room and about 20, 25 of their employees and [inaudible 00:19:19] sitting around, laughing and applauding and reacting. And it made that broadcast so much more enjoyable and real and engageable. That's not a word, but you know what I mean. It was that life that we were all lacking in the canned stuff that we'd been doing. Even if it was beautifully strung together with the perfect interstitial, it was not recorded before a live TV audience.

Doug (19:44):

Well now, was the band the Dropkick Murphys?

Corey (19:47):

No. No, it wasn't.

Doug (19:49):

Okay. Because I'm thinking you and I are working on all these same projects, [inaudible 00:19:52] normally it would be I'd see you all day and we'd spend three days in a venue. But okay, good. I'm glad that we're not passing in the night like that.

Corey (19:59):

No. [inaudible 00:20:01].

Doug (20:01):

So what do you see happening going forward? Where are we going to be in five years in this business?

Corey (20:09):

Well, if I want to sound like a complete idiot, I'll tell you where we'll be in five years. Because I have no chance of getting it right. The chances are, you know what? We'll be paying more for labor. We'll be paying more for gear. Clients will still be complaining about the cost of everything. And hopefully, some version of the hybrid that we all dreamed of transporting ourselves over to will happen, that you will have some version of the audience live in the room, but there will be an equally robust broadcast going out to the remote corners of the earth for people who could not or will not or don't need to travel. So a parallel show that's happening both for the audience, like the Oscars say. That happen every year, that we somehow are sentenced to watch each year.

Doug (20:59):

Well, I would agree with you on the hybrid. I'll be curious to see who's going to make the decision about who gets to fly and who doesn't, or has to fly and who doesn't. Business travel is not as fun as it used to be. And it wasn't ever that much fun.

Corey (21:14):

And it wasn't ever that fun. No.

Doug (21:16):

Yeah. So I do think that, again, where we are, I think in our careers is this has lit a fire under us. I will say, I'm grateful that I have learned more in the last three years than I had in the 10 years before that about our business and about how to touch audiences.

Corey (21:35):

I never expected to become a video producer or a digital events producer. That was not on my radar. I've been a live events kind of a person since I was 19 years old. So this business of doing it at arm's length and putting it in the can was not something I was prepared for.

Doug (21:54):

Well, again, Corey, when I knew I was going to see you a few weeks ago, I really thought of you and how this whole experience professionally affected you because, again, you're the quintessential event producer to me. And so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me and certainly appreciate anytime I get to spend with you.

Corey (22:21):

Well thanks Doug. I appreciate that too. You've got a birthday coming up. It'll happen just after we're together at the offsite coming up. That's going to be great [inaudible 00:22:30] for InVision to get together live and in person.

Doug (22:33):

I will be 29 until then.

Corey (22:35):

You look great.

Doug (22:37):

And to folks who've listened this far, if indeed you have, thank you for joining us and be sure to join us for our next InVision podcast coming soon. Take care, Corey.

Corey (22:50):

You take care, Doug. Thank you.