Stop and Smell the Roses with Steve Emory

What happens when a journey of personal transformation collides with the breathtaking beauty of the outdoors? Steve Emory, celebrating nearly 15 years of sobriety, shares his powerful story of recovery, resilience, and the simple joys of waking up without regrets. Steve’s love for nature shines through his passion for trail running, photography, and cherishing memories with his father. Discover how sobriety has shaped his life and allowed him to embrace each moment fully, especially those Sunday mornings with a clear, peaceful mind.

Join us as we unravel Steve's compelling military service narrative, which saw him providing medical support in historical hotspots like Mogadishu and Guantanamo Bay. Transitioning back to civilian life brought its own set of challenges, including a battle with alcoholism. Yet, it was the rediscovery of running that became his saving grace. Encouraged by friends and fueled by the camaraderie of trail runners, Steve found a path to mental and physical well-being. His story is a testament to the power of community and the transformative impact of pursuing passions.

Our conversation ventures into the captivating world of photography and Western films, exploring the delicate balance between capturing moments and savoring life's journey. As Steve reminisces about childhood memories at drag races and the unique experiences of military camaraderie, we delve into music memories and the evolution of media. Whether it's the thrill of endurance events on mountain trails, the charm of Arizona towns, or thought-provoking conspiracy theories, this episode offers a rich tapestry of stories that celebrate life’s adventures and the relentless pursuit of joy.

Instagram:

@desertstarsphotography

https://www.instagram.com/desertstarsphotography?igsh=N290N2tydzBvaG8y

Shoutout to:

The Emory Family 

Chris Morrison

Sobriety

Veterans 

Trail Running Community

Alter Ego Ambassador: https://alteregorunning.com/

Miles & Mountains Promo Code: Milesmountainsyr3

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:27

Steve Emery. How are you, Good man? How are you Doing? All right, Thank you. Yeah, thank you for coming on Sunday. Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 0:37

Yeah, I know it's like it's one of the benefits of well, at least on my part, of not like so many years in recovery. Now, you know, not waking up at somebody's some strange person's house or waking up on the street yeah, not wondering how I got there. Um, you know, waking up like with a clear mind, that's, that's an awesome thing.

Speaker 1 1:01

Oh, yeah, yeah, how many how many years?

Speaker 2 1:03

Uh well, it's almost almost 15 years. It'll be 15 years in june now congrats, man, congrats yeah, yeah, it definitely. It saved my life. So I wouldn't be running if I was still indulging, so but trust me when I tell you if I could, if I, if I, if I was able to drink like a normal person, um, I, I, I, I would still be doing it, cause I loved whiskey a lot, probably a little bit too much.

Speaker 1 1:31

All right, 15 years man, Congrats man.

Speaker 2 1:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:35

Yeah, I have. I tell you what I haven't had anything since uh Vegas and right before I went to uh treatment. You know, I'm just too afraid to, you know, get the inflammatory going back in my body. So I'm like I'm gonna stay away from that stuff. So, yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, but uh, how's the weather down there, man?

Speaker 2 1:59

it's uh, it's it's about, I think it's what like 50 ish or 52 or three, and that's partly cloudy the sun's kind of poking itself out this morning. So okay, are you uh, high desert, low desert, um, I'd say low desert, low desert, yeah, yeah, just in the summer, just um to the southeast of phoenix and chandler, um and um. Yeah, we're lucky we got. We have trails kind of like all over the place. You know from where I live, so it's not that not too far of a drive.

Speaker 1 2:30

Yeah that's good, Good. Well, I'm in the low desert and eastern side of Washington and I tell you what they never had the weather forecast correct around here.

Speaker 1 2:41

So woke up with flurries and icy roads and that was not on the forecast, so my run did not happen. I might happen later, I don't know, but the run will probably end up being a walk to get coffee and then walk back. Man, I love those days sundays are are my coffee days that I like to just go. I'll run to the coffee place and then run back and do some more miles, whatever. But yeah, welcome, man, welcome. Any predictions? Any predictions for tonight's football game?

Speaker 2 3:17

uh, it's. It's hard to say, but I think, if I think, if the Chiefs, if they play the way they're capable of, they'll probably win oh dude, oh dude, you want them to 3P? Yeah, well, I don't want them to Like. Honestly, I would love to see Philly spoil it. But yeah, I kind of don't have a dog in the fight because my Buccaneers got. You know, we got eliminated.

Speaker 1 3:37

Yeah, yeah, I got you, I got you. I'm a 49er fan, diehard 49er fan. So anything with the chiefs man, I do not, I don't care anybody but the chiefs. But you know what I told my wife I'm not watching it, I'm not gonna have. You know, uh, what is it that? How they see how many people uh watch the super bowl or a certain time. I'm like that's, I'm not going to be a statistic. So I told her I'm not going to go or not going to watch it, but I will go to the party, I'm just going to do my own thing and just hang out, whatever. But yeah, anything for the lady, right?

Speaker 1 4:19

absolutely yeah so but god gosh, go eagles. Okay, I said it, I said it, it sucks, but go eagles, all right. So thanks for being here. So, steve, you are on here because, dude, you are a jack of all trades yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 4:42

I I try to. I think the theme like, if I, if I were to like, ask, like chat gbt to you know, write like an instagram, instagram profile for me, I would say I would say running and generally just being outside and like a lot of that has to do with photography and trail running too, of course. But yeah, um, you know, also fishing and stuff like that, like stuff I've done since I was a kid, um, I and I would, I would go out on hunts like with my dad, um, I haven't gotten, never gotten drawn. I I've put in for stuff for like Turkey and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 5:25

My dad, um, I haven't gotten, never gotten drawn. I've I've put in for stuff for like Turkey and stuff like that, um, but I've actually never gotten. I've actually never gotten lucky enough to be to be drawn. So, um, so yeah, before my dad passes, I'd love to him and I both get drawn together. That would be, that would be really um, I think that would be really um, I think that would be great. So I think, um, I think we're going to try and do that for this year okay, nice, nice turkey hunting yeah, like turkey, um, maybe mule deer, um you know some, something like that.

Speaker 1 5:58

So yeah, turkey hunting's fun, but man oh yeah, you gotta you gotta watch out. I mean, I you. It's like power hiking man the turkey hunt is, and that's why I like it, I love it. But man, they're so elusive and smart, goodness gracious yeah, I know that's.

Speaker 2 6:17

That's. That's kind of what my mom was saying when she I think it was not last year, but the year before her and my dad actually got drawn together and both got a turkey, and she's like, yeah, those things will work.

Speaker 1 6:29

Yeah, man, I mean, yeah, they can, they can scoot so yeah yeah, yeah, and so I I like the fall hunting, but yeah, but I mostly I prefer deer, not deer. Uh, duck, oh, okay, duck, I, I love duck man. There's something about it, it's just fun. Yeah, moving targets in the air, yeah, yeah those are, they're good. They're good eating too yeah, so what came first photography or running?

Speaker 2 7:11

definitely running. Um, so for me, it started in um in junior high. Um, I ran both years and, um, well, I wasn't the fastest. Um, our team was really good. Um, actually, my second year in junior high, we actually went undefeated and won that, won the conference. So, um, yeah, like, even though I didn't score for our team because we could only have I think it was like six runners and I and there were there were eight of us, the two of us that weren't allowed to score we actually still finished in the top 50, um out of I think it was like 500 runners or something like that. So, okay, yeah, so that. So, as far as running goes, that's where that started, okay.

Speaker 1 8:01

When did you start picking up a camera? And you know taking photos of the sunset so, and so it's.

Speaker 2 8:08

It's interesting, I didn't really start getting serious with the camera until until until the pandemic, and it was like 2020, I think that's when I I bought my, my first camera, like real camera, like big boy camera. It was a Canon EOS Rebel.

Speaker 1 8:28

Okay.

Speaker 2 8:29

And yeah, and I just started to read a lot about photography, especially astrophotography, which I'm still trying to get more into, since I have all the equipment now with the telescope and all the attachments and everything you know I needed to like photograph planets. So, yeah, I'm still trying to get into that. But yeah, landscape, uh, photography, that's like where my heart is and, um, I just love like venturing up into the mountains and, um, so we're out in the desert and you know we have plenty of that too yeah, yeah, man, yeah, a lot of the sunsets that you take pictures of.

Speaker 1 9:11

It reminds me of this place, so it's like is he in? Tri-cities. Is he in tri-cities so? Yeah, you're not you're, you're down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't it funny that a lot of things uh were picked up during the pandemic, like hobbies and everything absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 9:35

And and for me, like my weight got really really bad during the pandemic, um, because I wasn't like getting outside a lot and um, and that's kind of where, like the running came into it's. It's kind of funny like how all this happened, um, and I think it was one day it was when I went to my oldest nephew's wedding in 2021 and I saw how I looked in the suit. I'm like, okay, this has to change, like I need to do something, and that's kind of. That's kind of where the whole running journey happened. I started actually walking first because my joints hurt too much, because I was so heavy that my joints hurt when I ran yeah yeah, so I had to jump on the bike and um and walk at first until I lost, I think, like 40 pounds.

Speaker 1 10:25

Okay, you look good, man you look good, thank you Good. So so this podcast started.

Speaker 1 10:33

You know pandemic time and everything else and you know, four years later, going strong. Yes, last year was an anomaly, because you know my dad and my, my father-in-law, and then you know the c words, but I still pumped out 19. You know 19 episodes, which is weird considering I'm going on 250 right now. You know, soon, soon, I think after this month, I'll be 250 episodes. But it's funny how something so big could make us turn to something so little, as some would say, and then strive. You know Absolutely. It's just amazing, man, it's amazing. So when you started running in junior high, as you said, did you run in high school?

Speaker 2 11:23

I did some. So my freshman year I just did, I ran track and amazingly, I didn't like I. I wasn't because we had a lot of really good, fast guys like in the mile, the two mile, so I ended up running the 800, which was so hard to me. I think that's honestly. I think the 400 and the 800 are probably the two hardest events.

Speaker 1 11:53

Right, I gotcha Okay, so you did that throughout high school.

Military Service and Running Enjoyment

Speaker 2 11:59

Yeah, so my. So my freshman and sophomore year I ran track and then I didn't run cross country until my senior year Okay. And that kind of led me into the middle. Well, it didn't lead me into it. I already had it kind of made up in my mind that I was going to join the army, yeah so. So running so me and running in the military, that was kind of a natural fit.

Speaker 1 12:37

So I'm going to get there. I was going to get there. I was going to get there. So right after high school you joined the military, or did you go to college and then join?

Speaker 2 12:48

Yeah, no, I actually enlisted. I was old enough to enlist my senior year and my parents already knew I was going to enlist and my dad's a vet. He put in about 15 years, I think. It was like eight, eight active duty and then he was on the guard for about seven. Yeah, so it was kind of a natural fit. You know, um, for me, um, I wanted to go to college, didn't have money to pay for it, so, yeah, yeah, so the army was kind of a second option, um, you know, to kind of get a somewhat of a career established and to see the world. So, did you see the world? Yeah, I did. Um, yeah, mogadishu and and uh, 93., um, we were kind of we were kind of the forgotten group because we were there before task force Ranger. Um, you know, when the the, that really bad raid happened and we lost, you know, all those Rangers. You know the incident that Black Hawk Down was based on Black Hawk Down. Yep, yeah, that happened to the group like after us.

Speaker 1 13:57

Oh, okay. So yeah, that's third world country there, man.

Speaker 2 14:03

Yeah, that's third world country there. Man, yeah, I know, and here I am I'm barely 20 years old getting deployed downrange. Thankfully, I was in a field hospital. So by the time, at our biggest back then, what was the 86, 86, evac? Um, I think we had like 300 beds at one point. So, yeah, so we we got built out pretty good and like fully functioning er or um, you know, we had everything. We were like a level, we were like the level one trauma unit, you know, for all of all the, the, uh, the forces. So in country, okay, mogadishu man.

Speaker 1 14:48

Okay, yeah, I was gonna say black hawk down. Yeah, yeah, all right. Yeah, were you able to go off base?

Speaker 2 14:59

so yeah, so so we did, we, we did a, um, kind of an exchange thing with the Swedes to where two of their hospital troops came and worked for us and then two of us went and worked for them. So it was kind of cool like seeing how you know, like a different, and I found out that there was way more relaxed than we were, like oh yeah you know, whereas we were like we have procedures for everything, we were like by the book, yeah, where they were like it was almost like a civilian operation.

Speaker 1 15:38

Oh yeah, yeah, it's a lackadaisical kind of thing, you know. Yeah, was that the only place you were over? Uh, at overseas?

Speaker 2 15:46

so, um, and then my. My next stop was guantanamo. Um, I was there and part of operation c signal, it was joint task force 160, so it was a coalition, basically a big coalition of volunteers. Um, well, are they? Or voluntold volunteers? Yeah, like hey, you're going here for the next few months.

Speaker 1 16:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:09

So, yeah, it was like Fort Campbell, fort Carson, like a whole bunch of people and like different, you know MOSs yeah, of course, I was a cook, so it was me, and then one of my cohorts from Fort Campbell, and then, yeah, so there was a bunch of us.

Speaker 2 16:26

So, basically, what we did during Task Force 160 is we provided logistics for the refugees, like Cuban and Haitian refugees, that were at Guantanamo. Okay, yeah, so the name of it was Operation Sea Signal. Huh, so, yeah, so it was a bunch of um, it was kind of like this storm that happened, so castro like opened the gates and said anybody that wants to leave can we're not going to do anything to stop you. And then, at the same time, like there was this um like really bad, there was like a military coup happening in haiti and um, yeah, so we ended up um providing like aid for, like all these refugees, um, that were there until they could be repatriated um, either back to their own country or, um, the ones that had relatives in the united states. You know they applied for, you know, immigration status in the states okay, so.

Speaker 1 17:27

So, when they talk about guantanamo bay, you're like you know these days, you're like I was there back in the night yeah okay, probably, yeah, probably, look the same smell the same too, right yeah?

Speaker 2 17:40

exactly. So yeah, I I I often wonder like, do they still house dependents there, or is it just basically just the whole? You know that part of the island just turned into like a big giant prison. Now I don't know, you know it may have changed after 9-11.

Speaker 1 17:56

Yeah, so I mean, I heard that they houses 30,000 people.

Speaker 2 18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:04

Same number as when you were there yeah, like I, I believe it.

Speaker 2 18:09

Um, oh man, they like everything on the island. Um, on that part of of the island like, there was an outdoor theater. They had a bowling alley, um, of course, they had like an enlisted officers club, like standard drill, like any like military base, um, but the I think the coolest part of that place was the outdoor movie theater. I remember I'll never forget watching the movie time cop, where the jean-claude, yeah, yeah, um, outside, I was like the coolest thing. I felt like I was at a, you know, at a drive-in. Huh, okay, you know, except for you.

Speaker 1 18:44

Just you got to bring your own cooler and just sit out there in the chair. Nice, nice, okay, yeah, that's pretty cool when in the military running was still there, correct, oh yeah absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 18:58

So so we had to um take a PT test at least once a year. Sometimes we did it depending on what outfit I was in. You know we did it twice a year, so, yeah, so we had, we had to maintain a standard for a two mile run, you know, based on our age group, yeah, and of course, you know, being in my 20s, you know all throughout the whole time, um, just about, you know, um, yeah, I trying to think, I know I had to do at least like a 16 minute um two miles, so it was like eight minute miles. So you know, and, and we ran, we did like like formal-ups, sit-ups, all that good stuff, and ran probably five days a week.

Speaker 1 19:57

Now I know how it is in the service. You know, army, we run our butts off now. And also being 20-something something years old, we like to party right? Did you enjoy the running or no?

Speaker 2 20:16

honestly I did okay um unfortunately, many mornings, you know I was, I was running the hangover out of me, you know, because I most of us did yes, yeah, I just, yeah, I just, you know, partied way too much during the middle of the week and yeah, so there were quite a few mornings, and it wasn't just me a lot of times, especially on Friday mornings. Few mornings and it wasn't just me a lot of times, especially on friday mornings. You know there would be a lot of us, you know that would just the place would just, it would smell like a distillery, just about right, oh yeah, yeah, you sweat it out.

Speaker 1 20:54

You're like gosh, I can smell it and taste it.

Speaker 2 20:57

Yeah, don't lie to match yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:01

So just running in military, did you lose enjoyment out of it, man? Though Just a tad bit, Because it was just like you know, you get that slinky effect when you do the platoon runs and company runs and it was just like, oh God, this sucks. Did you lose it?

Speaker 2 21:20

No, no, not at all, I think running I think I always enjoyed it because, I don't know it just it felt like freedom in a lot of ways, even on the, even on the days when, you know, maybe my body didn't necessarily feel that great. Um, you know, I always felt better afterwards, like I would, you know, grumble and, you know, probably fill up a swear jar under my breath, having to run because I didn't feel that great, I was in bad mood or whatever right but yeah, I always felt great afterwards.

Transitions and Trail Running Connection

Speaker 1 22:03

Yeah, so Okay. So eight years in, you didn't re-enlist what. What then man? What then yeah?

Speaker 2 22:12

So, so I did, I did two four-year enlistments. So I did, I did. I ended up doing three years stateside and then a total of five years overseas, between the deployments, and I spent three years stateside and then a total of five years overseas between the deployments, and I spent three years in Germany.

Speaker 1 22:28

Yeah, so Okay.

Speaker 2 22:33

What part of Germany. So, yeah, I was at well, they call it Landstuhl Medical Center now. So, yeah, so that's, that's, that's where I was, and I ended up spending a year of that enlistment, that second four year enlistment I spent, ended up spending a year of that actually the first year I got to Germany in July of 95. And then in late October of that year I volunteered to go with a field hospital out of Würzburg, germany, to go to Hungary to be a part of I-4. So we basically provided medical support for the troops that were in Bosnia. Okay, so, yeah, I spent ania.

Speaker 1 23:25

Okay, so, yeah. So I spent a year in.

Speaker 2 23:27

Kapusmar Hungary.

Speaker 1 23:29

You've been around, man. I thought I was man, Jeez, yeah, Africa one minute, Germany the next. Yeah, Würzburg is no longer like there. It's there, but civilians took over it. You know, man, I don't know how the military just spends all that money and then just let it go, man, it's crazy, it's crazy so, but uh, launch tools will always be there, I believe.

Speaker 1 23:55

Oh yeah, I think so too, oh yeah, yeah. But I, I know it all too well, man, oh geez okay. So running always loved it. I tell you what, when I so running always loved it. I tell you what when I was in, I loved it until we had the company runs. Man, I freaking hated the company runs, because I don't like running with no one. And that slinky effect, man, you know, you're on everybody's hill, people are on your hill. That's the worst, that's the worst run ever. And I tell you what there's nothing exciting or or enjoying.

Speaker 2 24:27

There's no enjoyment at all for that yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree, those were the worst like all, like whenever we had to run with um, because sometimes we would have to run with um. When I was at Fort Campbell we would have to run with like a brigade, um, with like there was like a, there was like a support brigade that we had to run with, which totally didn't make any sense, but anyway. And then when we did a um, uh, our yearly hospital run when I was at launch tool, um, I totally get that, it was just, it was basically like like a power walk yeah, and with people non-stop talking or yelling and it's just like uh gosh, I just can I be at home sleeping, right, I wouldn't do that yeah, yeah, I'm like first hour.

Speaker 1 25:23

Hey, hey, nah, nah.

Speaker 2 25:25

Shut up. Yeah, like do we really have to be out here? Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:30

So when you got out and we'll talk more about the service when you got out, what then? Did you continue to run, did you stop for a bit? What?

Speaker 2 25:43

Yeah. So when I got out, yeah, like I didn't, I didn't run at all, like I didn't, I wasn't really like physically active I I wrote like I when I finally it oh gosh, I think it was like eight years, um, I think it was like 2007,. Uh, was when I bought my mountain bike that I still have Um and um. Yeah, so I. So that's that's kind of what I did Um, like for like physical exercise. Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't really active. You know, which, you know, contributed obviously to me. You know, gaining a lot of weight, um, um, so yeah, so I didn't, I didn't start running again, I went, I went from basically I think it was like 90, like late 98, early 99, until 2021, um without actually running.

Speaker 1 26:43

So goodness gracious.

Speaker 2 26:45

Yeah, wow, I know. And when I it was, it was, it was, it was crazy, man, like when I started running again, like I realized like once I started getting into it and I started, I got to where I could run more than you know, three or four miles at a time. Um, I forgot how much I missed it.

Speaker 1 27:05

So yeah, 23 years, dude, oh my.

Speaker 2 27:09

God, I know.

Speaker 1 27:13

All right, so we don't have to get too far into detail, but for those 23 years, I mean 15 of them. You were sober, so yeah.

Speaker 2 27:25

Yeah, so I was basically, you know, um, just um, an inactive, like sad, like alcoholic, like living in you know like isolation most of the time.

Speaker 2 27:42

I would go out, I would go out, like I would go out, like I would go out with people sometimes, but once I um, I think, I think once I started to make a change, like with my diet and with um, like wanting to lose weight and wanting to start running again, and there was somebody in my, somebody that's been in my life since like 2004, linda Campbell. She really motivated me to start running and she told me, like how much it had done for her mental health and so, yeah, so that was kind of like another motivating factor. Um, but the biggest factor was for me to really start caring about my, my own physical appearance again and um, so yeah, and it's yeah, it's been great ever since, um, I, I didn't start trail running until actually 2023, so I haven't been on the trails for too long um, a friend of mine that you know, uh, chris morrison, convinced me to start trail running, so okay, yep, chris morrison, and that's when, that's when you came around, right?

Speaker 1 29:00

that's when you started following me. We started talking and getting to know each other. So, yeah, shout out to Chris Morrison. So Linda, is she still in the picture? She is.

Speaker 2 29:10

yeah, shout out to Linda. There was a period of time where we were kind of out of each other's lives there for a few years, but then she moved back to town and yeah. So she's still in the picture. She's like a really fast roadrunner, like really fast, and I've been slowly trying to convince her to come out to the trails. It's not the same, it's a little more relaxed. I know how competitive you are, but it's so relaxed out here Road is definitely different than trail.

Speaker 1 29:47

It out here road is definitely different than trail.

Speaker 2 29:49

it is definitely than trail, it's so, um, so yeah, so I'm still, I still consider myself pretty much a newbie um on the on the trail, so I I try to learn from people as much as I can.

Speaker 1 30:00

It's crazy now chris Chris Morrison, really a big guy.

Speaker 2 30:07

Yeah, he, yeah, like he's a giant, like I'm not I don't consider myself short, but he's like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, a little intimidating man, but he did that Black Canyon 100K yesterday correct and he completed it.

Speaker 1 30:27

Shout out to Chris.

Speaker 2 30:31

Yeah, I got to. So I was volunteering at the shuttle pickup lot yesterday morning and I actually got to see him when he pulled into the lot and gave him a fist bump. When he, when he pulled into the lot and, uh, gave him a fist bump, and um, yeah, so I was, I was so happy for him, um, you know, being able to, to, to, to get some redemption for you know, missing out on it last year and you know going out there this year and and just you know, crushing it.

Speaker 1 30:58

so yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, man, yeah, I love 100ks. Man. If I can do that all year round around here, I would do it, but every race around here is an out and back, and I just don't like that. Don't like that, all right. How was the volunteer status, though? Last night, did you get your sunset? I, I believe I saw it and like your sunset pic.

Speaker 2 31:23

You said you you were gonna work on it and you got it correct, oh, yeah, yeah, so, um, so I I was able to to and that's what I posted on my like the main wall yesterday on Instagram um, I was able to get, uh, captured this, uh, the very early stages of day break, man, it was. It's so cool, it's it's kind of humbling, like when you get to witness that in the morning, to see the day, you know, like night, turning slowly in the day, like that.

Speaker 1 31:55

I love it too, man, it's good yeah, it's a little glow, it's a glow yes it's a glow man and there's nothing. Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. Oh, yeah, I spent a lot of time on the mountains and that glow is very helpful. Oh, yeah, absolutely. What is it? What is it about? The sunsets, though, man, that you love, because you take a lot of sunset pics, I think it's.

Speaker 2 32:25

I think a lot of it has to do with, um, I think, watching westerns growing up, I think that was part of it. Um, that, and I'm always seeing, because my parents always read louis lamore, uh, books like novels, yeah, so being able to see like the artwork that was on the covers of those two, um, yeah, and I think it's the whole western thing. Um, you know that I grew up and you know growing up in like a very western town. You know in in phoenix, um, in phoenix area, and um, you know being exposed to, um, you know like horses and um, you know the cowboy way. You know growing up with my late grandfather, um, you know spending time during the summers with him, um, so, yeah, so that's in, in getting up early and helping him. You know feed the animals, um, you know, in the mornings and and watching the sunrise over the desert. Man, it's okay, there's nothing, nothing like it, I got you.

Speaker 1 33:34

It hits different. Oh yes, absolutely Gotcha. All right, we can talk Westerns all day if you want. So my my question to you is your favorite western man go, oh gosh oh, there's, there's.

Speaker 2 33:51

I mean I love the duke, I love john wayne. Um, you know, rooster codburn, I would say it was probably one of them, and then I would say, um clint, eastwood course Right.

Speaker 1 34:04

Spaghetti Westerns dude.

Speaker 2 34:06

I'm all about it, man. Exactly Nothing you can't go wrong with either one of those.

Speaker 1 34:13

He was such a badass dude. He's still a badass man, you don't want me using that?

Speaker 2 34:18

language. No, no, no, absolutely.

Speaker 1 34:20

He is a badass. Yeah, yeah, I mean God, all right. Have, yeah, he is a badass. Yeah, yeah, I mean God, all right. Have you seen any new ones recently that strike a chord?

Speaker 2 34:31

Yeah, I'm trying to. I know Kevin Costner. He was great. He came out with one recently, american Saga. Yeah, yeah, that I've seen. So I actually heard him interview on a podcast and he was talking about the why and the how, you know, behind the movie, the movies that he makes and why he's, why he is like super picky, you know, and to see someone really take pride and care behind what he thinks the audience, the audience, audiences would want, um, you know, and and movies that he would want to watch.

Speaker 1 35:14

So yeah, okay, have you heard of american primeval? I have, I need to watch it. I I tell you what with American Saga and you know, kevin Costner's and this American Primeval dude, oh my God, it sets the tone for the Western. Yeah, it sets the tone for the Western world and I think we're going to end up having more Westerns like that, more gritty, you know, almost like the Revenant.

Exploring Western Films and History

Speaker 1 35:42

Yes, gritty you know, almost like the revenant. Yes, yeah, and I tell you what american primeval and I'm not sponsored by them or trying to get any kickback, but it has to be the number one series that I've ever watched on any platform whatsoever. And, um, the guys behind it, peter berg. You know who, peter berg?

Speaker 1 36:04

yeah he's behind it. They made sure, uh, they had the historians on it, they, they had, uh people to make sure that the natives, uh they represented them appropriately. So, yeah, oh yeah, they, they really brought their a-game. And I tell you what one thing you don't hear about, but in this story you do, is the meadows massacre. You know what? That is correct yeah, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 36:34

Yeah, it's they. It's a shame, you know, and I don't want to get off into that kind of a tangent, but it's a shame that the natives were treated um, you know, they never, you know, they welcomed us into their land and, yeah, they, we had no business treating them that way. So, um, you know, and I have a lot of um natives, um, that are friends from like a lot of different nations, so, yeah, um, so yeah, so I, I love movies that represent natives the way they should be represented.

Speaker 1 37:05

Oh, yeah, well, the thing is is the Meadows Massacre was LDS. They try to make it seem like the natives killed their own, but it was LDS, right.

Speaker 2 37:20

Exactly.

Speaker 1 37:21

They put a. I swear, I swear, I live, we live with a lot of lds people here. You do not hear a peep about this show, but I tell you what the people that aren't lds and watch it they're like oh my god, have you seen this? Oh my gosh, and it really brings bringer young into a bad light. Dude, basically, yeah, yeah, they. They basically make it sound like that, uh, and look like that. There's the savages and the natives were just doing anything they can to survive man, and it was. Yeah, it's really good. I think that has to be the best show, best, uh, portrayal of the west that I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 38:09

Yeah, about the american primeval.

Speaker 1 38:12

Yeah, I have to watch that six, six episodes in, I think they're like 40s, 50 they're. They're all different. Uh, time wise. But yeah, man, okay, we could. We could definitely talk more my favorite, my favorite spaghetti westerns. Man, there's nothing like clint eastwood just coming in with this one-liners and basically don't give up.

Speaker 2 38:35

You know up and then, you know, and then you're going to charlton heston and oh yeah, um, you know jimmy stewart, and oh yeah yeah, the old guard.

Speaker 1 38:48

Oh yeah, man, yeah, it's a good stuff, good stuff. And then what else uh, dancing with the wolves brought that epic story and then opelousa. I mean yeah, open range with.

Speaker 2 39:01

Oh yeah, I was going to say open range. I actually own that one. They brought it back to. Yeah, it's one of my favorites.

Photography Enthusiasts and Outdoor Adventures

Speaker 1 39:08

Oh yeah, so Westerns. Okay, we got a lot in common than we think and know man. So veteran photographer, daylight you ever take more daylight pictures.

Speaker 2 39:26

Yeah, trying to think. Mostly, I would say most of the daylight pictures I've probably taken have been at um, like either car shows or um, I um used to go, uh, when the NHRA would stop here, um, I would, I would, I would take a ton of pictures from, uh, the races, um, so yeah, so that's yeah, drag racing, oh gosh, I think. I think I think my dad took me to my first one, my first um like big drag meet um when I was probably like five or six years old. The old, the old beeline dragway um back when the ahra was still in existence. Okay, um, yeah, seeing, and like tom, like like don prudhomme, was like kind of one of my heroes growing up. Um, um, yeah, I drive, you know, driving that the the U S army funny car. Okay, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 40:31

There's a thing, the saying, that I like to put out there, cause it's a saying that I don't really live by, but I started and I'd like live vicariously through you photographers. It's stop and smell the roses. Have you heard me saying that? I have yeah what is your? What's your thought on some?

Speaker 2 40:53

stop and smell the roses so I I think it's um don't focus so much on the just on the on the um on the destination. Don't focus so much on the on the on the um on the destination. Don't focus on the destination so much that you miss the journey to get there.

Speaker 1 41:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:11

So yeah, so absolutely, absolutely, like you know, live it live in the moment. And when you have the chance to capture something you know on camera, do it.

Speaker 2 41:23

So Did you always have that mindset, I think yeah, I think after COVID I really really did that and losing some of my friends how the fragility and like, how fragile life is. You know that at the end of the day, no one's going to people to see that you've captured. You know there's always going to be something for someone to remember you by. So that's kind of part of the mindset that I have, like with photography. Yeah, so, so, yeah, and that, and just the fact that every sunrise and sunset, um, is unique. You'll never see the same one twice, right? Um, yeah, so that's part of it. Yes, but I, as far as taking pictures during the daylight, that I am absolutely trying to do more of and I've been able to do more of that, like you know, out running, I try to take pictures all the time, yeah, Via phone or with your profession, you know, at the restaurant.

Speaker 2 43:06

I always try to take pictures too, so Okay, via phone or your camera.

Speaker 2 43:22

Most of it's with my phone, um, but I do still take the camera out, um, especially like on the weekends, um, you know, I'll take the camera out, um, and just go hiking, you know, and um, yeah, thankfully, like, most of my gear is like super light, so I can, you know, go pretty far, you know, far out back yeah, okay, now is there a special place, because I, I sometimes it seems like you're in the same place, but just it's a different day.

Speaker 1 43:50

Is that true? I'm, it is yeah, you're very observant. Um man, I a, uh, I my job, uh, I'm like a behavioralist, you know, but I also know, uh, I kind of uh. I pretty much read a lot into things and pretty much spot on. I believe I think my friends would know or the acquaintances will know. My wife would definitely say, yes, yes, it's annoying, he's almost like on the spectrum. But where is your place, dude? Where is not where you live, but where is that place that you continue to take the pictures?

Speaker 2 44:32

All right, the pictures all right. So, um, the majority of the most recent sense of pictures that I've taken, there is a park that it's. It's basically just a city park, but the way they built it is so cool because it's elevated so you actually have to drive up to it. So and there's there's a lot to it. They have a huge, like a huge, dog park, they have an archery range, which is cool, and they and they also have an around it which I run on a lot. Ok, so, but if you go to start, there's certain places in the park where you can see kind of over everything and you can have a clear view of the of the horizon. So, so, yeah, so a lot of the recent sunset pictures that I've taken are from this park.

Speaker 2 45:38

It's uh, it's called piseo vista recreation okay yeah, so I have a clear view of um the um, the near we call. I call it the near, like western mountain range okay, so, nice, but yeah, it's basically like south mountain, like the south mountain range.

Speaker 1 45:57

So they really had to think of that, because I mean disc golf and then archery, and then running.

Speaker 2 46:05

I mean you put those together, something's destined to happen, bad you know, and so they really thought that out oh yeah, so so it's kind of cool the way the archery range is, because they so they have the archery range way at the northern end of the park, so so where the direction that they have to shoot is, or that you do shoot when you're there, um, everything goes off to the north and there's nothing behind it.

Speaker 2 46:40

So yeah, yeah, so they, they totally thought out like the safety thing and they have like big, huge, like um, it's almost like a little valley, almost the way they have it set up. There's, there's rocks, um. They have like a rock, um berm, like all the way around it.

Speaker 2 46:55

So all right, yeah, so, yeah. So it's pretty cool seeing um people out there shooting from, you know like old cowboy hunters, to um, you know, you know um like teenage girls. You know just out shooting um and kids, kids as well, you know shooting with. You know with just out shooting um and kids kids as well, you know shooting with. You know with with their, uh, their, their, their, their, their parents. So yeah, so it's, it's so that's pretty cool to to see.

Speaker 1 47:24

Yeah, it's almost like uh back in those parks how they did theirs.

Speaker 2 47:31

Oh yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 47:33

Minus the shooting range, because shooting range we're always in BFE Mm-hmm, yeah, no, kidding, yeah, yeah, well, that's cool, that's cool, that's a civilian shooting range for you.

Speaker 2 47:47

Yeah.

Military Camaraderie and Music Memories

Speaker 1 47:49

All right, all right. Do you miss it? Do you miss the military life?

Speaker 2 47:58

Some days, yes, um, because it was a more simple life. You know you knew what you had to do every day, um. But then I remember you know the 2 am like drug tests. Like I was never like into drugs, but it was always kind of a pain in the ass. You know when you have to wake up in the morning and you know to do like a 2 am piss test, that part I don't miss.

Speaker 1 48:22

You know what I always loved doing, though because of that I was always that prick that always gave whoever was the peepee watcher a hard time.

Speaker 2 48:37

I never thought about doing that, no. Oh man, yeah, no, I.

Speaker 1 48:45

Hey, cause it was usually like sometimes it was.

Speaker 2 48:46

You know, it would be like a like an office, like a junior officer, it'd be like a lieutenant, like a butter bar, oh yeah, oh yeah. Like if they couldn't find some buck, sergeant, um, you know, or somebody, yeah they, they'd have a like a butter bar or something like that?

Speaker 1 49:00

hey, well, I did not discriminate, man, and I was in from bush to obama, right, and I tell you what it was a huge difference, man, oh I'm sure this test, and I tell you what I loved messing around the obama years because, dude, it made it even more uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 49:22

So what we did was just make life miserable for the pp watchers yeah, now, now that you mention it, because I was like when I, when I first went in, I was in at the end of Bush senior and then, for you know, most of the Clinton years you know, so yeah, so yeah, I kind of thought that you mentioned that. I did kind of notice the difference too.

Speaker 1 49:46

Heck, yeah, it's a huge difference, man, huge difference. Now the people watching would say, no, it it's yeah. They would say good times, man, good times. One thing, and I don't talk about military service on air, so if you don't mind, I don't.

Speaker 2 50:06

No, not at all, it's all good.

Speaker 1 50:09

I never talk about it because I did enough to get disability right. Yeah, talk about it because I did enough to get disability right. Yeah, medically retired, like not the va but but the army, and the one thing that I miss in the army, the camaraderie man that's that's, yeah, I know that's one thing I miss and I think the one thing that brings it back, because I do isolate myself.

Speaker 1 50:34

I do. I am a loner. Yeah, I have a podcast. Well, blah blah. I know a lot of people but everybody knows me as the loner and so. But the one thing that trail running has brought to me in my life is the camaraderie. It's almost the same. It's just you're not a guy in arms. You know what I mean. Yeah, you don't. Do you have a battle buddy? Maybe if they run with you, but outside of that, you know, it's just that feeling when you go to the aid station and people were there for you. You know, no matter what, you know they want you to get the mission done. That's what trail running brings to me. Now, would I do it? Would I do the military life again?

Speaker 2 51:20

do it over, nah nah, oh I, I, I would in a heartbeat, but I joined the air force yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 51:28

I wish I was smarter and did something like that way I'm.

Speaker 1 51:32

I'm here to tell you way better chow halls, way better barracks well, the bxs too, man, the bxs were the top notch, you know, top of the line, uh, stuff that you can buy besides the px. But now it's all joint base now and now you get. You know the life of the px and the bx and you know the air force and army. Hardly any air force go to the army shop so but the army guys go to the air force shop because oh yeah, you know, like louis vuitton purses and stuff like that and their bx's yeah.

Speaker 2 52:08

So that's a huge difference, huge well, I was gonna say back in the old days. I think it was Z Cavaricci and Kenwood Stereos when I was in. It goes to show you how long it's been since I was in.

Speaker 1 52:23

Yeah, the plates, the plated disc man.

Speaker 2 52:26

Yeah, yeah yeah, man how time has changed, huh. Oh, it's crazy that you can literally be out there running, because I listen to satellite radio when I run, so you know, and I get a signal you know, thankfully, just about everywhere. So, yeah, it's, it's crazy how far we've come yeah, what station do you listen to?

Speaker 2 52:52

so usually, oh gosh, like I'm I'm a bit of a rocker, so probably like I'll flip back and forth between, like, turbo lithium and, um, ozzy's boneyard, so you kind of get a little bit of just about everything yeah, have you noticed?

Speaker 1 53:09

and I do the serious xm a lot, not on my runs but in my car right but, have you noticed they changed, uh, their, their, uh, formula of coming.

Speaker 1 53:21

You know, putting music out, they normally before, maybe like two, three years ago, they used to play bands that you never even heard of and you're like, who is this? And you know you go to lithium, oh man, who do you? You know you go to Lithium, oh man, who do you go to? You know you listen to Lithium for a bit and like who is this? Like right, and then now they just play the big wigs, man, the good stuff. You know they play like the hidden gems of Def Leppard, you know ZZ Top.

Speaker 2 53:55

And now it's like I listen to Hair Nation and I know all the songs, man you know, and it's just yeah, I was gonna say that's, that's another great one um hair nation dude.

Speaker 1 54:02

Classic rewind and hair nation are number one on mine. Octane has changed to butt rock, as people like to say, but yeah every now and then I'll hit that up, but I'd rather listen to hair nation turbo. Oh yeah, uh, liquid metal. Sometimes, when I'm really in the mood, liquid metal is really good. But ozzy boneyard.

Speaker 2 54:26

Okay, all right yeah, well, and that and I'll, um, I'll switch on uh classic vinyl from time to time because you know I'm I'm always like zz top, like probably one of my all-time favorites, um and um, I love that.

Speaker 2 54:45

I don't know if you've seen their their net, their netflix documentary. Um, yeah, they, they kind of go through like how the band started and like their love for hot rods and, um, yeah, kind of like how they they rose from playing in bars and you know, throughout texas, um, you know texas and louisiana, and my dad was telling me like how him and his buddies, like they actually followed zZ Top around in their early days when you know, when they were just basically playing bars, yeah and um, yeah, and got to see them play, you know, in a big boy stadium. Um, quite a few times. So, yeah, so that's why I have the. I don't know if you've seen the tattoo. I'll have to send you a picture of it sometime. I have a tattoo on my right arm, okay, yeah yeah, wow, man, you are a fan.

Speaker 2 55:40

Yeah so.

Speaker 1 55:43

Yeah, they're lyrics. When you're young, you're like pearl necklace, and then, when you get older, you're like yeah, yeah, and then, when you get older, you're like oh wow. That's yeah. And then when you get older, like, oh, wow, that's not what that really means, yeah, yeah. And then you know same as kiss too.

Speaker 2 56:04

You know love gun. You know you're like, uh, yeah, you know it's like you start listening to a lot of these songs later on in life. I was like wait a minute, like wow, like they actually put this out.

Speaker 1 56:12

Yeah, yeah, dude, it's great. They were masters of the craft back in the day.

Speaker 2 56:17

Oh, yes, yeah and then you start you know, and then you go deeper into, like you know, Led Zeppelin you know, and bands like that. They're like, wow, okay, like this is a really great song, but I can't believe they put that out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, man, good times. This is a really great song, but I can't believe they put that out there.

Speaker 1 56:36

Yeah, oh man, good times Good times.

Speaker 1 56:40

Man, okay, military, I don't know man, it just I don't talk about it. I love to hear other people's story. I don't talk about it because it just left a bad taste in my mouth. You know, my dad did 24, my, my granddad. He did his time in uh, world war ii and korean and you know, got shot up and everything else me. I tell you what I got, that uh, that anthrax shot five of them in one sitting. People question that, um, don't people question that. I'm like, don't bring it to me, please don't bring it to me. But I got five in one sitting and my body seized up and I had to learn how to walk, how to learn how to do everything that I do now and take advantage of and um, that's why I don't mentioned anything. I still haven't told my story on here and I'm not going to try to tell it. But um, I did mention it a little bit on uh one podcast, but not all of it.

Speaker 1 57:52

but when I talk service briefly and to the point, because the bad taste man and yeah and when, when they find out that you're broken or anything's broken, you know they they pretty much spit you out and they, yeah, they chew you up and spit you out. Man, treat you like you're nobody and and yeah not seeing, and to me that's wrong.

Speaker 2 58:18

I guess I think I think it was it's it's part of who I am, you know, when you, when you, when you go for a lot of a lot of your life, you know I was. I was teased and bullied a lot when I was a kid because I was like really small but I kind kind of looked like like a bobblehead doll if you will.

Speaker 2 58:36

Like I had like an adult size head with a kid's body. So I got teased for that a lot when I was a kid and um. So when, when I grew, when I grew up right I've I had a growth spurt like later, a lot later on, you know um and um and then you know going like going through life and seeing how people treated each other to me I I don't know where, like where, the moment happened, but I just realized somewhere along the way that it's a lot easier just to accept people where they're at and for who they are than to try to judge them when you've never walked one step in their shoes. Military service if you raised your right hand and you put those boots on, it doesn't matter if it was for one day or for 30 years. You know, I kind of treat everybody the same. Like at least you rate, you have the guts to raise your right hand.

Speaker 1 59:44

A lot of people don't or refuse to yeah you know, so yeah, yeah, and then, and then you know the, the five shots, and then you know cancer doesn't run in my family. And here I am. I have like some anomaly ongoing, like lifetime ongoing version of uh hodgkin's lymphoma. Tell, tell me, tell me, all right, I'm not know. People probably think I'm a conspiracy theorist, but something, something's not adding up, dude. And so what is it?

Speaker 2 1:00:19

Somebody yeah, no, listen, it's everything's a conspiracy until it happens.

Speaker 1 1:00:26

And man has a lot of things happen. I'm just saying. I'm just saying to you, I'm just saying, I'm just saying. I'm just saying too.

Speaker 2 1:00:36

I'm just saying hey, listen, if we had time we could go down a seven-hour rabbit hole. Oh yeah, trust me, oh yeah.

Media Influence, Military Service, and Running

Speaker 1 1:00:44

Maybe for later. But somebody was talking to me, a civilian, never been in the military or anything else, was talking to me. I would say a buddy, yeah, good, I would say a buddy. Yeah, I would say a buddy, um, not too much, but I just work with him. And he was saying, like isn't it weird that all ex-military are right side and, you know, and very fascist and you know, believe in the Nazism? And I'm like, not really, I don't, I don't what's. You know, what's your take on that, what's your definition on that? I was like you know what and I wanted to tell him. I wanted to tell him, like dude, I don't think it's that way. I think it's just because we've been there, done that. Like dude, I don't think it's that way. I think it's just because we've been there, done that, we've seen a few things and we know a few things, that we choose to just not let things go. We just choose not to say our piece. Yeah, exactly, but that blew my mind because it's just like I, I was never a fan of the government, never a fan, all right, and if you want me to quit, you know I'll, I'll quit.

Speaker 1 1:02:03

And uh, being in the military, seeing what I saw doing the things I did, seeing my buddies. You know I was, I was in right when they were before 22,. You know 22 a day, you know, and seeing that and going through that makes you really, really think about things. You know. And you lose a few friends for overdose, that you know. Pill parties do happen. You lose some buddies doing that. They never straighten out their life. You know it hits a little hard and home and it just makes you lose some buddies doing that. They never straighten out their life. You know it hits a little hard and home and it just makes you question some things. So I don't think it's so much right wing, it's just so much I don't give up, you know yeah, no, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 1:02:48

And yeah, it's just weird how everything's labeled, you know, and that blew my mind, man, when, when he said, you know, majority of the military are right-wing fascist nazis, I was like what?

Speaker 2 1:03:04

I think first of all, yeah, I was just like no, like I would. The first question I would ask them. I'd be like have you ever put on a military uniform, because if you haven't, you have no business calling anyone who served in the military that yeah, man, it just blew my mind.

Speaker 1 1:03:22

I'm like, man, they're, they are so out of it, man. And to do that I was like, okay, well, maybe that buddy's acquaintance now, because, wow, because wow it is.

Speaker 2 1:03:35

It is so profound how the mass media has corrupted people's minds into believing lies oh, yeah, but and you say otherwise I got you, and I don't I? It's been a while since I've read orwell, but it goes into a lot of like what orwell wrote and also um the um. I haven't read the book, but it was the movie good night and good luck. Um you, where they talk about the early censorship of the news.

Speaker 1 1:04:20

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 1:04:21

And you know the kind of the story, the origins of Edward R Murrow and how he kind of took on the government to keep speech free when it comes to the. You know, the media, you know, whereas the media, from day one, pretty much wanted to censor everything.

Speaker 1 1:04:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:04:44

So, you know, the government wanted to censor the media and now we're hearing that the government paid for a lot of the media.

Speaker 1 1:05:00

Gee, imagine that man. Yeah, yeah, the times we live in, right?

Speaker 2 1:05:03

yeah, you know, you know, orwell's just laughing in his grave right now like yeah, yeah yeah, man, good times, good times.

Speaker 1 1:05:11

I remember growing up and, uh, you know people saying, uh, mel Gibson and Oliver Stone are off their rocker and now, like it, what's going on, man you know. And Oliver Stone, they kicked him to the curb because dude's been spitting the truth for years. And look what's going on. Yeah, it's, it's kind of kind of interesting time, man, kind of interesting, yeah, the politicizing. And man, yeah, it's out of hand dude. So when it comes to that I try not to say anything.

Speaker 2 1:05:46

But, yeah, the one thing that the military brought to me that I really miss and enjoy is the camaraderie man, camaraderie, man, camaraderie yeah, and me too, and and what you said about trail running man, is that's, that's, it's, it's about 90% of the reason why I do it. Um, the other five percent is probably physical and mental right, but, um, yeah, there's, it's such an amazing community. We all kind of support each other. We actually all do support each other. You know whether it's. You know the elites that are up there. You know. You know getting the golden tickets or us back to the Packers. You know, or at least I can speak for myself as the back of the Packer.

Speaker 1 1:06:36

I gotcha, I gotcha. I gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah and yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool and you know the elite runners. There's some humble ones, but then there's also non-sub humble ones right, we won't go there exactly.

Speaker 2 1:06:45

Yeah, I've been lucky. Like most of the ones that I've met are actually super nice people that are willing to give you advice. Like I had a chance to go on a group run with Scott Schrager he's, I think his handles run faster on Instagram yeah, super like super nice guy, him and his girlfriend, callie like super nice people. And yeah, and I told him like, yeah, I've only Callie like super nice people. And yeah, and and I, I, I told him like yeah, I've only. You know, I've been trail running for a couple of years, so I'm still um trying to master the descents. And he's like, yeah, he's like you. Just it just takes practice, man, you know it's like he like I don't think anybody's ever born with you know that skill of lying down the downhills.

Speaker 2 1:07:34

He's like, you just have to practice. So yeah, man, just the strength train, build those quads up.

Speaker 1 1:07:40

So oh, yeah, yeah, but I've been hitting those quads. I've been hitting because of the weather so unpredictable and I don't want to slip and fall like I did the other day just getting out of my truck. Man, I hit my head so hard, man it just. But I've been hitting the stair climber and talk about quad killing man I've been doing.

Speaker 1 1:08:00

I've been doing, uh, you know, 98 floors. I like how when you go on the stair climber they have the landmarks, and so I've done the eiffel tower, the us uh bank Tower. So I do all that and I tell you what, after when you get to 60 or 70 and you have 30 left and you're going on 11 or 12, you know level, it starts hurting. I believe it's hurting, but yeah, good times, good times.

Speaker 2 1:08:34

Yeah, I was going to say I, I mean it doesn't matter if you're out on the mountain or if you're on the rock in the stair climber man vert is vert, it'll catch up to you yes, but you know what?

Speaker 1 1:08:43

there's also a thing I'm a big stickler too when it comes to gym equipment. You know, people they're how they run, not how they run, but they run too far up, you know, to the the dials. And then people who do the stair climber they don't take the stairs, they just they walk on the last stair. You don't do that, you got to go in the middle, go in the middle and do it. So I'm a huge stickler and I see so many people doing the stair climber wrong and I don't want to be, you know, a little arrogant, but I'm just like step down a bit, step down, get that full range man yeah all right man.

Speaker 1 1:09:32

So what are you training for?

Speaker 2 1:09:34

so yeah, so my next race is um may 9th. It's um that, I think they renamed it, and it was um eldon crest. I think it's still all in crest um the ellen crest 39, so it's oh okay. It's basically a 39 miler from um port tut hill state park to downtown flagstaff, so it's like part of the last 39 miles of the Cocodona 250 course.

Speaker 1 1:09:58

Yeah, that's going to kick your ass. Man, it's going to kick your ass, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 1:10:10

But yeah, I'm kind of coming back from a little bit of a hip abductor strain, so it's about close to 70% now. So yeah, so once the PT and my running coach, eve, once they kind of take the reins off, I'll be doing some of the longer stuff up north to get some of that elevation training in, because it's pretty far up. It's about eight, eighty, four or five hundred feet yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1 1:10:41

And and having a hip issue too. Oh my goodness, you're gonna go big and go home, man oh yeah, gosh well I, I, I pray, you know, you stay healthy. Oh, I tell you what once you get at a certain age I know you're older than me, man, but you know I had back surgery. I've had since back surgery, I've had a torn meniscus you know, everything starts falling off and going downhill. But I hope it's the other way around, for for you, you know.

Speaker 2 1:11:19

Yeah, I'm praying for you, for your treatments too, buddy.

Speaker 1 1:11:21

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the so the thing is is that I finished all the treatment they. It's a less invasive, it's more local, but if you read more about it, it's almost as bad as chemo and radiation put together.

Speaker 1 1:11:35

But you know the one thing you don't do is lose your hair, but man it seems like seems like everything else gone to shit, you know, and uh feels like you got hit by a bus every treatment. But I took care of it right after I got. I got back from vegas to the end on the 4th of January Four treatments in four weeks and the headaches were the worst part too. But I have a PET scan on the 19th and then see the doctor and then I go from there on how often I see the doctor for life. So yeah, every four to six months, that's what they're saying. And then I have to be super vigilant on the bumps, lymph nodes and stuff like that. And yeah, it's crazy, lymph nodes we have man.

Speaker 2 1:12:32

I tell you, I thank you for putting that, that planting that seed. You know to kind of pay attention to your body, because I definitely do a lot, a lot more of that now man, it's scary.

Speaker 1 1:12:43

I never thought you need you wait. You know you wake up when you're a kid. You, you know, you, you do everything as a kid and you see movies or know people. Barely anybody had cancer when you're growing up, right. But when they did, you know it was all Hollywood, something like that. You never thought you'd get cancer. And then here you are, you get cancer. It's like, oh my God, what do I do with myself? I'm like am I alone? Come to find out. You're not alone. But, dude, it feels like it, because it's a, it's a different world, man. And I'll tell you, from the moment I found out that I had cancer, I knew something was up. But the moment they diagnosed me, they said I had cancer but didn't tell me what kind those two weeks that you had to wait. You talk about binge drinking. You talk about like oh yeah, dude, reckless thinking.

Speaker 1 1:13:43

Oh my goodness, I I will never forget that and I don't ever want to go back. But, um, yeah, that that's the scariest part, man. That's the scariest part of the whole ordeal. Outside of that, the treatments are are okay. They're. Cancer centers are so much different than regular hospitals, man, you know it. There there's a reason why those, those people work there and they're very caring, very insightful and loving people, man.

Speaker 1 1:14:16

I've never even witnessed that in my life. You know, here I was, you know, out of going in well, being in the army, treated like crap, because you know I couldn't pull a trigger. You know that's what I mean. You know that's how they base it on, you know, and here I am and they're caring for me for me as a person, not a stat, not a number. Yeah, it's just. It was uplifting to just be part of that and know that. You know there are some loving people out there, so that's good.

Speaker 1 1:14:46

Well, I'm glad that you're able to to have the strength to run oh yeah, oh man, I tell you what if I, if, if I have to walk, I have to walk and I don't mind putting you know on my chorus, I don't mind putting a walking session, you know, and mentally, mentally is nerve-wracking, but I'm still working on it. It's a work in progress oh yeah, it's a work in progress.

Speaker 1 1:15:14

That's why I do the run coffee run on my strava, you know, and and if that, that coffee is normally just walking until I finish that coffee and then I run after it. Yeah, 11 minute, 12 minute miles, it's all right I don't care. Yeah, absolutely yeah hey man miles are miles. Yes, yes, so do you do mountains yeah yeah, what's? What's your go-to mountain down there, man?

Speaker 2 1:15:45

oh, gosh, um, probably my favorite. Um gosh, there's so many I would. But my favorite, though, is probably um the trip up scenic, um the scenic trail at mcdowell mountain, um, just because you can see from there, you can see the four peaks, um, you can kind of see the superstition, so you can kind of get a view of just about everything yeah yeah, so, yeah, so that's probably my favorite, um, but that's only because I haven't run in the San Francisco peaks yet, which I'll get a chance to this year.

Speaker 1 1:16:29

Nice.

Speaker 2 1:16:30

Nice, so so that that could probably change.

Speaker 1 1:16:35

Is it McDowell, the same mountain Chris mentioned.

Speaker 2 1:16:40

Yeah, so that's, that's where they have, like the Javelina hundred.

Mountain Trails and Trail Running Anecdotes

Speaker 1 1:16:48

Yep, okay, yeah, so, okay, yeah. So that's that's where they have, like um had the javelina 100. Yep, okay, yeah, so, okay yeah the san francisco hills man, yeah, have you done. Have you thought about doing humphreys?

Speaker 2 1:16:57

have I thought about doing what? Humphreys, oh humphreys, oh gosh. Yes, absolutely yeah, because I see I see guys like Jeff Browning and Pete Mortimer like up there, you know, hiking and running it, yeah, so that's something I would, I would love to like conquer, so did that last year.

Speaker 1 1:17:19

I was down there and definitely enjoyed it. It was almost this. It felt like Mount Hood, minus the snow. You know, when you hear about Humphreys, people are like, oh, it's so many roots. You know it's a, it's a hell of a mountain, but it's there. And then a ski resort is half, pretty much halfway up the mountain. You know, yes, it's the tallest peak, but, man, I thought there was more to it, I thought there was more desolation. You know isolation. Yeah, that's a mountain, everybody wants to get on, just like hood, but minus the snow at the time. Yeah, you got to check it out, you got to check it out, you got to try it. Man, it's, it's really nice. And, uh, the the flagstaff portion, it's not. You don't see too much flagstaff when you're on there, but it I think it's north, north dude, that view is to die for. The grand canyon view, it's oh my gosh yeah, I, um, I'll definitely try.

Speaker 2 1:18:29

I I will get some pictures of it. Um, you know, this year um probably I would say maybe during elden crest. I think I should be able to see it when I run elden crest. So I'll try and get some pictures of it yeah, that's man, it's quite the mountain.

Speaker 1 1:18:43

But one thing I'll tell you, a little insider, that I didn't know until the moment. Um, so everybody trains there, the plaque staff, right, everybody that lives there. They do that. Well, if you go take the, you know, take the trail all the way up, but don't take it all the way down. Go to as the parking lot's on the right, you know you hit the trail Once you finish your peak, go down and then there's like this ski run. It's frowned upon, but the locals go down the ski run instead of down the trail.

Speaker 1 1:19:27

And so much time and energy and ankle busting that yeah, it's like a little meadow area that they take and I was like so pissed. I was like dude, why hasn't anybody passed me?

Speaker 1 1:19:41

I know, I went up really fast and I know I wasn't the only one coming down, but I'm like, why am I the only one? There's hardly anybody passing me, you know. There's a couple runners, you know, bombing down the trail, but I'm like where is everyone going? So I see this old guy, this, uh, 75 year old, he, you know, he's like, oh, I'm 75 and I'm doing this. He was way back behind me, you know. And then I see him come down. I was like I get it. So that's one thing that they don't tell you on, oh Drava, on all trails A lot of people take the ski run.

Speaker 1 1:20:22

So just to let you know it's a lot easier, man, that downhill trail, dude, dude. It's. So many routes, so many tripping hazards.

Speaker 2 1:20:31

I don't know how people can bomb down that trail like they did so any other mountains or runs oh gosh um, I know I know um pass mountains a good one um near in uh u3 park, that's. That's another good one. Um, love it there. I I would say um, yeah, I'm trying to think the uh, the national forest, uh near near my parents house. Um is really good because you can just run forever and ever and ever and not see anyone. Um you'll see actually more animals than anything yeah, yeah, that's a scary thing, that's that's.

Speaker 1 1:21:17

That's scarier than seeing people, man, because oh yeah I, I've been there, done that and I continue to do that. You know, when it comes to being desolate and not seeing anybody for hours and all of a sudden you see somebody oh shit, a animal, but it was a person. You know. You're like, yeah, but dude, it freaks you out. Freaks you out if you don't see anybody for that long.

Speaker 2 1:21:40

I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of like fearless when it comes to that. Um, maybe I'm just like old and just don't care, but I kind of I kind of like that, like that vulnerable feeling of being out there, um alone, um, you know, out, especially in night races, um yeah, I um you start hallucinating, yeah yeah, I know it's it's. It's kind of funny, like when you get tired you start to see like dragons and it's like you're on shrooms, but you're not, I know like, okay, like I know, that has to be a tree, not a dragon.

Speaker 1 1:22:23

I just saw Right, that was not a person.

Speaker 2 1:22:26

That was a shadow, yeah, yeah. Yeah, some of those stories that people have told me from Cocodone are pretty legendary Bunnies, you know, bunnies riding rocket ships, oh, yeah, big.

Speaker 1 1:22:40

Yeah. I've had a couple of people on from Big bigfoot. You know bigfoot 200 and yeah, the old native ground, they, they see some things, man, they see things, hear things, and uh, especially this one area where the grounds are and they say it's a trip, it's a trip.

Running Challenges and Recovery Journey

Speaker 2 1:23:03

Yeah, I that's. One thing I really kind of want to do either this year or next year is is run a race out of state somewhere. They just have to pick something.

Speaker 1 1:23:15

So yeah, Well, I mean, you got Vegas right there. They have a few runs.

Speaker 2 1:23:20

Yeah, I kind of have my eye on the the Red Rock Canyon ultras. They happen every year in Nevada, so it's kind of like a little to the southwest of Vegas. Yeah, but it looks like it's like a. It looks a lot like Sedona, except for not as many trees. Yeah, just beautiful like Red Rock Canyons.

Speaker 2 1:23:42

And yeah, from from what I've seen from the trails trails, man, it's, it's, it's like it's beautiful, so yeah, what's your go-to snack when you're training, for you know a long run oh gosh, uh, as far as like the real food um, not the bioengineered stuff, like the gel, the stuff like that but my go-to snack is probably, honestly, I would say like the healthy stuff. I would say Bobo's, I love their oat bites. Okay, yeah, especially they have an apple one. That's really good. Oat bites are pretty good. And then we go off into the good stuff Nerd's Gummy Clusters, that's actually. It's really good. Like you get some pretty good calories and some decent carbs.

Speaker 1 1:24:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:24:37

And then during the winter months, I'll take a handful of peanut M&Ms with me, because they don't, you know, they have a less, they don't have as great of a chance or greater. They have a greater chance of melting during the summer, during the winter. So yeah, that's why I only take them out, like during the winter.

Speaker 1 1:24:57

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:24:57

Yeah, so they won't melt on you. You know when you're out there. All right, what's the toughest?

Speaker 1 1:25:03

part. Those are my go-tos what's the toughest part of running that long distance man for you um you like isolation, that's not a problem what is?

Speaker 2 1:25:15

the most difficult part for you you know what, honestly, I, I I don't think, like I don't think I've hit that yet. I think, lucky, I think I've. I've mentally trained my mind with so much self-belief that I can push through anything, um and that and and I'm thankful for therapy, for teaching me that um, I, I can literally do anything. Um, like when I, when I, when my hip abductor flared up, um, I was in mile, probably 14 or 15 at across the years, and I literally started hobbling, like that's how bad it hurt. Yeah, um, I, at no point did I ever think I was going to quit. Like I will literally crawl across that finish line if I have to.

Speaker 2 1:26:07

I've put in way too much time and effort. I know I can do this, you know, and thankfully I stopped during the race and did like a couple of quick like PT exercises to get to calm down, was able to do you know another eight and a half miles, calmed down, was able to do you know another eight and a half miles. Um, so, yeah, so that's so, that's I. I, I think eventually I will. There will something will come up that will cause me to have like a lot of self doubt, but then I'll remember like how far I've come in my life that I can accomplish anything as long as I'm physically able to. Mentally, I'll always I'll be I, I, I. Right now, I feel like I could run Coca-Dona right now, mentally.

Speaker 2 1:26:54

I know physically I can't, just because I don't have the training for it, but but yeah, I mean that's it's been such a huge part of my life now is um just the self-belief that I have.

Speaker 1 1:27:05

Yeah, well, I mean, if you go 15 years of sobriety, man, yeah, you're mentally tough dude For real. Yeah, I'm serious, I mean people are like oh yeah, you just don't drink for 15 years. It's tough, so it'll, so it'll actually so it'll be.

Speaker 2 1:27:24

It'll actually so it'll be 15, it'll be. And and this is another part of it is it was literally so quick story. So it was a month or less than a month before the 4th of july and so it was june 8th. That's like my official like. When my recovery started and I asked my recovery mentor at the time, I had like 28 days in. I'm like, hey, I've got tickets to this concert in lombi. You know which was at the time.

Speaker 2 1:27:57

It was, um, it was mayhem fest 2010. So it was like god, five finger death pines, rob zombie, yeah, shadows fall. And, um, I was like, should Lamb of God, five Finger Death Pines, rob Zombie, shadow's Fall? And I was like, should I still go to this concert? He's like, if you don't, I will literally punch you, because he was a guitarist in a band that opened for 7Dust. Okay, yeah. So he was like he's like go have fun. And he had me just check in with him every so often, so often, yeah, from the show. So yeah, which, in hindsight, is 2020. Like during the show, seeing all the people that were like passing out and had to have ivs put in them, you know, for dehydration man, it was like man, I'm like, I'm like, I'm glad I'm them Right.

Speaker 1 1:28:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I told you uh the inflammatory like mental toughness thing.

Speaker 2 1:28:52

You're absolutely right. It comes with years of recovery. Almost in June it'll be 15 years, so like 14 and almost 15 years. Um so, yeah, so it's. I've had to build that mental toughness, toughness really, and it's really taken place over the last probably two years. You know that I've that, I've been able to do, do that, as far as you know, belief in my total belief in myself and what I can do.

Speaker 1 1:29:21

Yeah, what? What stops you? What has stopped you for 15 years thinking about it, not even picking it up? And you don't mind me asking, do you?

Speaker 2 1:29:34

No, not at all, um, I would say death, because the last time I drank I had to be revived by the paramedics. Okay, okay, so, yeah, so that there's there's always that healthy fear Like this is what could happen. And I may not be as lucky this time to have someone literally call the paramedics on my behalf, Gotcha, to come in and get you know to come and revive me, because one of the EMT is point blank, said to my face, you were 10 minutes away from dying of asphyxiation. So, okay, length. Said to my face, you were 10 minutes away from dying of asphyxiation. So, okay, all right, yeah, so that's so.

Speaker 2 1:30:11

I always tell people when, when I share my story without hesitation, like that, that may not happen to you, but that's what happened to me, so you know, you know there's always, there's always that, that healthy fear there, that and I think I've just kind of built this life over the years of not only just not drinking but becoming a better person, a kinder person, um, you know, with having not having like chemicals in my brain, like that, and, um, having self-belief, you know, being able to, um, you know, believe, believe in myself in a healthy way yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:31:01

So besides the whole inflammatory you know I have cancer and you know alcohol is a huge inflammatory you know, whatever it is um, one thing that's really helping me out is, like you said, death, um, seeing my dad die of cirrhosis and kidney failure. Man, is that an ugly way of going out? Never wanted to, even I don't want to put my kids through it, so that's another reason why I am staying away from it, man.

Speaker 2 1:31:40

Yeah, I have to.

Speaker 1 1:31:41

I have to. I can't. I can't let my kids see me on my deathbed like that. That's the most disgusting thing you know, not just to your personal well-being, but dude your environment. Yes, like where you live. It's not, it's ugly. Let's just say that.

Speaker 2 1:32:02

It is, and I never judge anyone for something that I used to do. Like, if you want to partake and go for it, I wish I could join you, but I can't. Um. But anytime somebody asks me for advice, like about recovery, I'm always, will always give it to people, um, and I always say that recovery is very selfish. You have to want to do it for yourself first, but by doing it for yourself, you're all.

Speaker 2 1:32:34

You're also doing it for those around you too, um, because it's kind of like yeah, exactly, it's kind of a scenario about the mask on the face in the airplane thing. You know, put your own mask on first before you put, you know, the mask on your. You know those that are around you.

Speaker 1 1:32:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:32:54

You know you have to save yourself first, but by saving yourself you're also saving those around you from what you could become by drinking.

Speaker 1 1:33:02

Oh yeah, and, and you know, 15 years. I didn't see my dad in 15 years because you know he didn't isolate himself, he was just a drunkard, you know. And uh yeah, seeing him for the first time in that bed was like, dude, that's not my dad, you know.

Speaker 1 1:33:21

So that's that's scary man and seeing that I've man, god and him being estranged and it's not the life I want to live, man, and you know, I, I, I was mostly a binge drinker, right and uh, when I knew that, you know, throughout my life, uh, and if I knew it was a problem, I'd quit. So there's, there's been like three years, five years, you know, and then go back to binging and then, you know, a year without drinking Started the podcast. It was Miles Mountains and Brews. I was like I need to get rid of this because I've been getting kids on. You know, last thing I want, last thing I want, is parents to think, you know, they're coming on a brew podcast. So, yeah, best decision of my life. So I'm slowly but surely getting the bruise out of my life and it feels pretty good, man, and I think, I think I'm gonna keep it out of my life, just because, yeah, dude, uh, I mean, you know what cirrhosis of the liver does, right, oh, my god, that is ugly, it is ugly.

Speaker 2 1:34:32

I've seen people from in their 30s all the way up into their 70s die from it. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 1:34:44

I've seen a lot of deaths and that man that that that hits, it hits different. There's the it's ugly it is it's ugly man, the bloating alone and the body dude? Oh my god, yeah yeah, it's, I know.

Speaker 2 1:35:04

Pretty early on I remember, um, oh gosh, I think his name was pat he actually had to have part of his stomach cut out, you know, because, um, alcohol basically just had eroded it away. So much you know. And um, yeah, so, yeah, you know, you know, knock on wood, I didn't have any major health problems other than my weight, you know from it and I've, thankfully, like over the years, like, the further you get away from it, your body starts to repair itself. You know, unless you have cirrhosis, obviously, or jaundice or anything like that, you know that repair itself. You know, unless you have cirrhosis, obviously, or jaundice or anything like that, you know that's um, you know, because it, um, it just man, like once you get that far gone and then you go into like wet brain and stuff like that, like I've seen people with just so far gone.

Speaker 2 1:35:59

It's like, yeah, you just kind of want to live the best life you can at that point. But yeah, wet brain.

Speaker 1 1:36:07

Yeah, I didn't forget about that. But I'm like, oh God, you bring it up and I'm like, damn it.

Speaker 2 1:36:12

I know it's it's. I've only seen a few people with it, but yeah, it's just. Oh, man, it's like you can't. You want to, but you can't they're too far gone.

Speaker 1 1:36:29

Yeah, too far gone, man. So congrats, man, 15 years, thank you appreciate it. And my battle, you know I've it's been off and on and you know I've had people tell me you're better drunk than silver. I'm like thanks, man, no, that's, yeah, that's you're no longer my friend right, exactly.

Speaker 2 1:36:44

So, you know, moving along, yeah, and eventually you start to get new friends that are like healthier, that like support you no matter what and yeah, so that's that's. That's kind of been a blessing for me, like over the years you know, especially the most recent years with trail running. It's kind of funny how, like, a lot of people that I've met in trail running are also in recovery. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:37:11

Well, a lot of people say you know this is almost similar to you, know, I mean, it's an addiction. You know it is an addiction. It does take over lives. But is it healthy? Oh, a lot healthier than you know alcohol. But you can. You can still do it for the wrong reasons, you know.

Speaker 2 1:37:31

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:37:32

You just have to be careful. You know like take rest days. Yes, yes, a lot of people don't, and then they end up getting hurt and they don't know what to do with their life, and that's.

Speaker 1 1:37:50

I have had a few conversations like what if you get man? Have you ever had it? And then they come on my podcast like, nope, never got hurt. Guess what? A month later they end up getting hurt and they don't know what to do with themselves. I'm like, oh, I jinxed you. It's like my bad dude, don't come on the podcast don't?

Speaker 2 1:38:00

you don't want to hurt yourself, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:38:07

How do you feel overall, man, with this episode?

Speaker 2 1:38:10

We're still going, oh yeah, no, it feels really great.

Speaker 1 1:38:14

It's like a natural conversation with a friend, oh, yeah, so we've been at it for an hour and 40 minutes. Can you believe that? Yeah, no it's gone by super quick. Yeah, yeah, for real. And uh, have you gone on your run today, or is it rest day today?

Speaker 2 1:38:31

yeah, it's like a semi rest day, it's like a cross training day today, so I'm probably just gonna go hike today just to get some time on, you know, on the old feet. So oh yeah yeah and um, she only had me on for um for seven miles yesterday, so so we're still kind of like gradually doing this build-up, um, because I'm still like three months out from the race, so, um, and my fitness feels actually really good so coming quick, man, I know it is, it is, it's, it is.

Race Plans and Arizona Towns

Speaker 2 1:38:59

It is coming pretty quick. So but yeah, I have no doubt I'll be, I'll be ready for elden crust and the hip will be. I actually feel, I feel like after yesterday, I I feel like I'm I'm really kind of turning the corner.

Speaker 1 1:39:10

So okay, are you doing across the years this year?

Speaker 2 1:39:15

I am not um. The reason for that is I plan on doing either the 100 miler or the 100k at the cold water rumble next year okay um, yeah, and that's like in early january.

Speaker 2 1:39:26

It's like january, it's usually the first saturday in january okay yeah, out at um estrella mountain, um, which is a beautiful place, it's. It's like that's like kind of remote too. Um, yeah, I ran just the five miler there, um, was it 2020? Yeah, 2024? Um, because I was kind of coming back um from the old, the old runner, runner's knee thing, um, you know, where my knees were in kind of bad shape because I wasn't doing like the right stuff to get them, you know, built, built up as far as strength wise, um, but that's all like gone now.

Speaker 1 1:40:03

So yeah, so I, I I did that race last year and got to experience part of that, that course, so okay I wanted to do across the years and I thought you know I was going to end up doing it with you but the whole diagnosis and shout out to aravipa and company man, for you know, not canceling it. But they said I have until like 2026 to use the credit.

Speaker 1 1:40:28

So yeah shout out to them, for you know not canceling the whole thing, but just let me allowing me to move it over, and I think that that will be my only race this year I'm doing doing mostly mountains and just trying to get the love back into it and to things, you know.

Speaker 1 1:40:50

I mean I love running, it's my life, it's my livelihood um exploring and everything else but the racing you, you DNF so many times it starts bothering you because of injury, you know. And so when injury comes up, you know, and so injury comes up, you know. Last year I was training for all these multiple day runs, end up tearing my plantar fascia, oh, no you ever done that.

Speaker 2 1:41:16

No, no, I like thankfully, like, as far as far as physical injuries, the only two that I really had to deal with was the whole like runner's knee thing, um that, and then this hip abductor, and that's pretty much it, thankfully. But then again, I've only been doing it for two years. So you know, it's like one of those hold you know, hold my, uh, my, beer moments. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 1:41:39

Well, knock on wood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the plantar fascia man, I think. Of all of all injuries that I've sustained, I think I would rather have back surgery or back problems than plantar fascia.

Speaker 2 1:41:57

Yeah, cause I mean blocking is everything. I mean yeah, it's your wheels, man.

Speaker 1 1:42:01

Yes, mess with your wheels, and so I learned a yeah, you have to get the block, it's your wheels, man.

Speaker 1 1:42:04

Yes, you can't mess with your wheels. And so I learned a lot, man. I learned a lot that you always have to listen to your body, man. That's what I learned in the past few years. And so race is not going to be on a hold, but I'm going to do one and I'm going to stick with the Crossy years. I'm going to do the 48 hour one, and the next year I end up doing the 72 and I'm going to move up to six days. That's, that's 48 hours.

Speaker 2 1:42:36

I would think you should, you should be able to do at least, or like, close to a hundred miles.

Speaker 1 1:42:42

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh yeah. 24 to 32 is definitely 100 miles if you just sustain a 15 minute pace at least. At least you're good if you go 13, if you go 13, which I've trained myself for 13 miles uh, you know, by walking, maybe point 20 oh yeah, you know, you still get 13 miles, you know. So if you walk good, you know good session, you still get 13 minutes.

Speaker 2 1:43:13

So I've been doing that for the past few years yeah, you'll, yeah, so I'll end up doing that.

Speaker 1 1:43:19

I'm gonna get a hold of them and get it all situated, but I'll be down there, hopefully I'll. I'll run into you, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 1:43:27

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 1:43:28

Do a lap or three.

Speaker 2 1:43:29

Oh, yeah, yeah, we'll like, we all like like to come out for you know, for that event and who knows I, you know I could very well end up running it again, you know it. Just I have to see how the schedule, you know, shakes out. But yeah, no, I definitely could do a few miles as a training run for sure what western town besides where you live you like to get away and just relax in? I would say for sure, like like.

Speaker 2 1:44:13

Pinetop Lakeside, like where my, where my folks live, because it's a small town, you know it's. It reminds me of the old Arizona, you know, because I know Pinetop Lakeside it's it was. It was probably an old logging town at one point. I would say there, and I would say Flagstaff as well, like the older, the older part of Flagstaff. Yeah, it's still pretty cool up there.

Speaker 1 1:44:42

I hate the parking in Flagstaff. Oh yeah, it's kind of it's kind of a up there. I hate the parking in Flagstaff. Oh yeah, it's kind of it's kind of a downer Goodness. I was like I don't want to go to Flagstaff after my, my summit, you know. I'm like I need to go somewhere else that's not crowded and more friendly.

Speaker 2 1:44:58

So yeah.

Speaker 1 1:44:59

Flagstaff parking is bad and then it's kind of bad Parking is bad and then yeah, it's kind of bad. Even to park at the college you have to pay.

Speaker 2 1:45:10

I'm like are you kidding?

Speaker 1 1:45:11

me yeah, it's, it's nuts, nuts. That's news to me, man, that is. I was just taken back.

Speaker 2 1:45:20

I was like whoa, right, it's like. It's like, ok, you rely on you, you rely on tourism as one of your main sources of of income as a town. Like, why would you want to force people to pay to come to your town and then have no parking, whatsoever. Exactly.

Speaker 1 1:45:40

It's nuts. I've never. I've never witnessed that. If all my my traveling to and from big cities, small towns, whatever I've, that was the worst experience I've ever had in a town when it comes to parking and traffic and busy. It's like Flagstaff for real. After that, I was like uh, flagstaff, I don't want to live there. After that, I was like uh, flagstaff, I don't want to live there. I'll live somewhere else, but not there it's a nice town, but yeah, press gets better.

Speaker 1 1:46:10

Yeah, that's what I heard. That's what I heard. Yeah, what about? Oh, okay, corral man, is it?

Speaker 2 1:46:20

worth going down there. You know it's funny. I feel bad for saying this.

Speaker 1 1:46:24

I've never actually been down there, I wanted to go, yeah, like.

Speaker 2 1:46:26

Tombstone, yeah, that's. That's like a part of Arizona, like I'm sure I was there as a kid, I just don't remember it, so yeah, so there's two places that I really want to go back to Bisbee, just because there's a lot. There's like the historic section of Bisbee. They still have a lot of the original buildings and there's a lot of cool old cars down there.

Speaker 1 1:46:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:46:49

So I'd say Bisbee and probably Tombstone, two places that you know that I'd really love to go back to.

Speaker 1 1:46:56

It was, uh, it was 115 degrees when I was doing you know the mountains last year and I'm all like, should I go down to Tombstone, should I, should I? You know the mountains last year and I'm all like, should I go down to tombstone, should I, should I? But I'm like, nah, if it's hot up here, it's gonna be hotter than down there.

Speaker 2 1:47:13

and I'm like another time, another time. Yeah, it's kind of funny. You mentioned that it's actually, once you get away from, like, the city, like the main part of you know, know, phoenix, and all of the suburbs, yeah, and you go down there, it's actually a little bit cooler. You know, it may not be 115. It may be, like you know, 108.

Speaker 2 1:47:38

Yeah but it's a huge difference, man, it's a huge difference. Oh yeah, exactly yeah, when, honestly, like you can honestly tell the difference. This is, you know, coming coming from somebody who grew up here, you can tell the difference between 115 and 108 to 105. You can tell the difference.

Speaker 1 1:47:54

Definitely found out the difference in San Bernardino and Lake Havasu.

Speaker 2 1:48:00

There's a huge difference. There's a huge difference man, I love the heat man. But Lake H like how is he man? They just cook up there like it regularly hits, you know, breaks the 120 up there during the summer.

Speaker 1 1:48:13

I couldn't, that's a little much I got out of the car to get some gas. I'm like dude, there's a breeze, but it's like a blow dryer. I was like holy crap, this is how it feels.

Speaker 2 1:48:24

Huh, no wonder it's a party town in a lake man, golly yeah, if you ever wondered what a uh like a rotisserie chicken at costco feels like, feels like a kavasu here you come, yeah, yeah. Come to arizona on a breezy on a 115, 115 degree day in the summer when the wind's blowing. Oh man, you just cook.

Speaker 1 1:48:51

And my goal for March or April, for spring break, was to fly down to do Wheeler and Guadalupe, texas and New Mexico. I speak still in the air, but I tell you what man flying right now does not sound appealing.

Speaker 2 1:49:12

No, Everything dropping out of the sky. I think I'm going to drive.

Speaker 1 1:49:18

Yeah. So I mean, I really love my life. I want to wake up, you know yes, Not a conspiracy theorist, you know, especially when shit's true, but it's like ah, I got kids, you know, I got this cancer to take care of, you know? It's like huh.

Speaker 2 1:49:41

Tell you what you're. Uh, you're tempting me to start a conspiracy theorist podcast.

Speaker 1 1:49:46

Let's go, let's go.

Speaker 2 1:49:48

I would do mad. I'm telling you, I would totally do it. I'd have like storyboards and everything.

Speaker 1 1:49:56

One thing, and we're almost pushing two hours. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for getting me out of this an hour. You know, an hour 45 minutes. Hour to I. I've been having a hour 15 lately since I've been back. I mean I'm never gone, but just putting out more now. But a hour 15, deshauna Joe was our 15, jesse and Roy Jackson they were our 14. So, you, you're gonna be two hours plus, but uh, what, what was it? Uh, conspiracy.

Speaker 1 1:50:31

Right, we were talking about conspiracy yeah, conspiracy theories I can always go, but I am uh, I'm really looking forward to february 15th and hoping that the JFK is declassified and is out. I'm really waiting. I heard, I heard the pages. There's 300,000 pages.

Speaker 2 1:50:52

I believe it.

Speaker 1 1:50:54

I've been wanting that for ever since I even found out, you know when, when I watched Kevin Costner at JFK, you know, and Oliver stone saying his his way, and then he's getting trashed by the establishment, being called crazy and yeah, man I'm looking forward to that this is my, this is my not.

Speaker 2 1:51:21

This isn't a hunch. This is what I truly believe will happen that the people that have been called crazy all these years will be called correct but will they though?

Speaker 1 1:51:30

because I tell you what they're still cuckoo for coco puffs and other people's. You know thoughts and minds and everything else.

Speaker 2 1:51:40

I would say the. The handful of people in the, in people in the mass media that still have a brain cell or two left will say that the conspiracy theorists were proved correct.

Speaker 1 1:51:55

It's not mass media when it's. You know the podcasters. Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 1:52:01

Yeah, no, the pilot. Like that's how I'm dead serious, like how I get a lot of my news now, yeah, it's through podcasts, you know, like like rogan and and others, oh, sean ryan.

Speaker 1 1:52:15

Thank goodness for those guys, man, as much crap is that they get? I mean, do they get paid?

Speaker 2 1:52:22

they get my goodness, yeah, I'm independent.

Speaker 1 1:52:24

I don't get paid, but thank goodness for them, for speaking up for the, the, the little guys you know yes the people who gosh thought media, mass media, was above all. You know it's end all hey this. This is the truth. It's not the truth, but it wasn't the truth of the beginning. We're conspiracy theorists.

Speaker 2 1:52:49

Yeah, and another podcast group that's really really good is called Ironclad. Yeah, they they have still have a series. I think they're still putting out podcast episodes in the series. It's called Change Agents and the host is Andy Stumpf. He was a career Navy SEAL and was actually a I think was actually a platoon commander at one point commander at one point anyway. Um, yeah, like he's interviewed everyone from um guys that were have gone deep undercover um to um destroy child trafficking rings, to um to people that um have exposed the lithium battery um mining slavery.

Speaker 1 1:53:45

That's that's gone on around the world it's a myth, man, didn't you know that?

Speaker 2 1:53:52

I know, yeah it's, it's crazy, but yeah, no, I, I, I I'm 100 in agreement with you as far as you know, like where the best news comes from now.

Speaker 1 1:54:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I don't trust the news. I'll watch local news just to see what's going on in my, my neighborhood. But, yeah, yeah, lee man times. We live in, dude, I know. So you're thinking about doing a podcast, huh?

Speaker 2 1:54:21

For real. Yeah, I know that's like, like, like, seriously, know that's like, like, like, seriously, like that's like you're, you're kind of motivated, motivate me to to kind of want to start one like I don't know how many of them are there are out there right now, but yeah you're not the first that I started or helped start kickstart, so if you do, let me be a guest and I'll be glad to help you out.

Speaker 1 1:54:45

With that said I mean dude, three minutes until two hours. We can still go on, but how do you feel man?

Speaker 2 1:54:55

How do you feel? I know it's been. Really it's been a lot of fun, you know, deep diving into a lot of stuff, especially conspiracy theories. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:55:02

Yeah, it's always fun. It's always fun. I always, like you know, just just doing a little sprinkles but, with that.

Conspiracy Theories and Sunset Photography

Speaker 1 1:55:11

I want you back on dude. I don't know if. I don't know if you listen to Earl Wayne balloons uh episodes. He's the Bigfoot guy. He's the uh UFO guy. He's the bigfoot guy. He's the uh ufo guy. Well, he's. He's been on my podcast twice and the more and more I just get him involved. He's next ex uh dallas police officer. Okay, and he moved to the pacific northwest. He know people questioned him and everything else. His songs are in movies. Oh nice, ufo movies, bigfoot movies, pretty cool man, pretty cool.

Speaker 2 1:55:53

Yeah, I need. I need to. I'm a subscriber, so yeah, I'll. I'll dive into your library, your episode library, and listen to this. Check them out.

Speaker 1 1:56:02

I've had him on and I really got into it with him, like you know, not fighting, but like dude like you're. You know we went his first one. It's like I'm a little suspicious, you know, like I don't know.

Speaker 1 1:56:16

And then I was like let me get you back on, let me you know, talk credentials, let me talk. You know who you are, why people are doing this. It worked, it worked, yeah, and he's a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of his. Um, I'll give you the movies, uh, or the movie that he's in. He's gonna be in another movie, but yeah, really cool guy. But I think I think I want you, I know for a, I want you back on to just talk conspiracy theories.

Speaker 2 1:56:48

Okay, yeah, I know Absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:56:51

Especially, especially, when they finally declassify and give to the public. Dude, because I'm going to be reading a lot.

Speaker 2 1:57:01

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 1:57:03

I'm going to be reading a lot and I definitely want to know about MLK man. I heard and this is what they've been saying. I heard he was a CIA plant.

Speaker 2 1:57:19

Yeah, yeah, I, I need to read, read, like, read more about that. A lot of what I've heard about MLK was reading about other people's relationships with him, especially Billy Graham's relationship with him, how they were deep, really best friends. Billy Graham actually bailed him like, how they were like deep, you know, deep, like really best friends, and Billy Graham actually bailed him out of jail once. So, yeah, just knowing like the type of man that he was, but I have no doubt, like he, he was like a, like a quiet, like revolutionary in a good way, because he wanted to promote unity whereas the government didn't want unity.

Speaker 1 1:58:12

Imagine that, but did they they?

Speaker 2 1:58:14

did Exactly the government saying that we could go.

Speaker 1 1:58:24

That's why I want you back on and we'll, we'll stick to the conspiracy hours worth of podcasts talking about that whenever you want to back on. I prefer once they get that jfk stuff out.

Speaker 2 1:58:38

Yeah and also yeah, man, it's.

Speaker 1 1:58:42

It's just amazing world we live in and you know, and we're able to stay sober for 15 years. You know I have cancer. Wake me up. Just, you know, be sober and be good about it. You know it it's uplifting to you know, continue to do things in pandemics, find new things, like you have jack of all trades. It's pretty cool man and it's pretty cool that you were able to sit here on a Superbowl Sunday early in the morning and spend two plus hours on the podcast with me, man.

Speaker 2 1:59:23

So thank you for waking me up.

Speaker 1 1:59:25

Yeah, thanks for having me on brother and agreeing to be on. So, Steve, anything you want to say. Where can people find you and your sunset pics?

Speaker 2 1:59:38

Yeah, so they can find me on Instagram. I'm thinking about changing it, but I'll probably leave it there for now. Um uh, desert stars photography altogether lowercase. Um, on Instagram. I gave you my opinion.

Speaker 1 1:59:53

By the way, I voted.

Speaker 2 1:59:56

Uh, keep it, to keep it the same.

Speaker 1 1:59:59

No, I vote. Uh no, did I know? When I voted it was a hundred percent. I was probably the only one that voted oh, is that a hundred percent?

Speaker 2 2:00:07

but I was like, oh, this one, this one yeah, yeah, I think I think eventually I'll probably shorten it, I think you know, into something that really makes sense.

Speaker 1 2:00:16

So yeah, yeah, but steve man, it's been a pleasure want you back on, even if it's not conspiracy theorists, just do your attitude, your aura. I love it the way you take pictures. I mean, I'm telling you, I put photographers on because I live vicariously through you guys and you know the sunset pics. They look just like you are living up here, but you're not, and so beautiful and I appreciate you yeah like stopping and smelling the roses dude, so yeah likewise man appreciate you and uh, keep in touch, steve, like we have been, and uh, we'll get back on oh yeah, absolutely I look forward to it.

Speaker 2 2:01:02

Okay, till next time. Yeah, man look forward to it.

Speaker 1 2:01:03

Okay, till next time.

Speaker 2 2:01:04

Yeah, man Look forward to it.

Speaker 1 2:01:06

Thanks, steve, yep, we'll see you next time.