Episode 15: Lt. Karen Felton, Late-Night Barstools to God's Army

Karen Felton thought that if God loved her, He had a funny way of showing it. A series of unfortunate events in her childhood led Karen down a path of shame and numbing her pain with drugs and alcohol. Destructive behavior kept her far from God, even at barstools at 4 am.

When a chance job at the Salvation Army put Karen in the path of God’s people, a simple invitation to dinner set her on a course of life transformation with Jesus. Through Jesus’ love, Karen was able to heal the deep wounds of her past and share the love of Jesus with those walking wounded around her. She is now a lieutenant officer at the Salvation Army, spreading the Good News to Kansas City and beyond.  

Helpful links:

The Salvation Army. 

Alcoholics Anonymous. 

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website. 

Follow One80 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.
Never miss a One80. Join our email list.
Follow us on Instagram.
Share One80, here's how!
OneWay Ministries

Transcript

One80 Episode 15. Karen Felton: Late-Night Barstools to God's Army

Some of this transcript may not reflect the actual accuracy of the audio recording. 

Ryan: Can corn beef save a life? Friends with Jesus, anything can happen. And it was the ticket that got Lieutenant Karen felt into church just for three minutes.

Karen went from barstools at 4:00 AM to just three minutes in church. And then three minutes became six and slowly but surely in God's miraculous way. Karen was being transformed and she went from barstools to God's army. The salvation army here, her story today on 180. 

.. Karen, welcome to 180. Thank you so much for being with us today. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Karen: course. Thank you for having me.

Ryan: You have an amazing story to tell, but before we do that, I have random question that I would like to ask you.

All right. So if you were a professional artist, what kind of artist do you think that you would be?

Karen: So I'm already a writer, so I feel like I paint with words, but I often wish I could like also paint. I do these morning posts on Facebook for people and. I always find pictures to go with them, like painting and stuff. And I wish they were my paintings. 

Ryan: Oh, 

Karen: if I could be a professional artists, I think I would want to be a painter or be able to draw the best I can do though, as a stick figure.

 I don't think God had that in the cards for me, so.

Ryan: I can completely relate to that. Well, we'll stick to your strengths. How about that?

Karen: Okay. Yeah.

Ryan: Well, let's get into your story cause I know there is a lot there and it's so, so good and so beautiful. 

Okay. So if we can go back all the way to the beginning and I would you start off and just tell us, where did you grow up?

Karen: I grew up in Oak park, Illinois, , I loved growing up there. It was pretty safe. It was the kind of neighborhood where the kids all played outside together and all the moms stayed home and they sat outside and waited for the dads to come off the L and then we all had went inside and had dinner at the same time.

It was just that kind of neighborhood. 

Ryan: So good. What was your family like?

Karen: , I had an older brother and older sister and then my little brother came along and you surfed my place as the youngest, 

so, we were very close family and we spent a lot of time together. did a lot of family things together. So, church was actually the central thing in our life because my dad was a deacon in the Catholic church. And so our church was only a couple blocks away from our house. So we would walk to church and, a lot of the activities we did were happening at church. So that was a very, pivotal fixture in my childhood. And school was pivotal part of our life. 

Ryan: It wasn't a Catholic school that you went to as

well. 

Karen: My parents were big believers in public school, so,, we went to public schools and they purposely picked Oak park because they were working to, combat , red lining in neighborhoods.

 She really, wanted us to be, in a desegregated neighborhood. . 

Ryan: , did you feel that God was a central part of your household? I know you said you went to church,

Karen: That's such an interesting question. I don't know that for myself. I don't think I understood that deep, personal relationship that I would come to have later in life. I did not ever feel that it was more for me. It was about the community and the rituals and the traditions. And I didn't really understand. The faith part. I didn't understand that personal walk.

And I had a best friend, Gloria Brooks, , I would go to her house and they went to a whole different kind of church. And before we would go somewhere, her mom would pray over us and they would have these like powerful prayer meetings. And I'm like, this is, this is so different. It was so strange.

It felt uncomfortable for me. Cause I wasn't used to that. Like we did, we prayed before dinner and we prayed at church. So looking back on it, I think, the church was very important to our family.

 I just didn't get the God part.

Karen: I was definitely as a child, more of an introvert, which when I tell people that today, they're like, there's no way, cause I'm the biggest extrovert on the planet, but I was very, bookish. I was very creative in my imagination all the time. And so it was really hard for me to make friends. I was, the teacher's pet, you know, that, that girl, I liked to go to the library.

. when I was young, one of my parents' friends, molested me and that kind of sent me on a journey of.

Silence I think, and it also sent me on a journey of feeling shame and, not liking who I was. I wanted to stay safe. I liked to keep things very close to my chest because I didn't, want any of my secrets to spill out. and for a long time, I kind of managed that pain through, isolation.

And as I got into junior high, I really felt that loneliness and isolation, so moving from where I felt safe, at my grade school to the junior high, and I saw like popular people in these different, clicks.

And I wanted that. I just didn't know how, I didn't know how to make myself, have friends and be popular. And so I tried to begin to be somebody I was not. And, I hooked up with somebody who was probably not the best influence and she was, more in the popular group, but she also got in trouble a lot.

And so I started doing things like smoking cigarettes, and then she introduced me to alcohol and I took my first drink when I was 12. And it was

like, I had found the answer to all that pain that was under the surface. And I didn't have to feel when I drank. And

so,I started just to find different ways that I could sneak and get it.

I was arrested for the first time when I was 12 

Ryan: 12 years old. Wow.

Karen: And, and you have to also remember I'm I'm the deacon's daughter. So that was really not, not a good look for my family. 

Ryan: And you, did you not necessarily feel like you could talk to anybody about this 

Karen: I didn't want to tell anybody it was going on inside of me because the person was one of my parents. Good friends. And I, I didn't know if they would believe me.

Ryan: oh 

Karen: I didn't want to hurt anybody. That's the story of my life. Like that's how a lot of things have happened to me because I always want other people to feel comfortable so I just didn't feel like I could speak up. And I know that in retrospect, as an adult, my mom definitely would've heard me and done something, but I didn't at that age, all I felt was shame. So, yeah, alcohol allowed me to not feel that shame, but what it did was it also compounded that feeling of not being comfortable in my own skin, because that's not who I was.

I was like this bookish smart girl. And all of a sudden I was drinking at 12 and doing these things. And so there was a grappling inside of myself with trying to figure out who I was going to be. , that wrestling went right into high school where things really escalated pretty quickly. I stuck with that group of friends from junior high and definitely we were the partiers in high school.

, even as a freshmen, I was drinking a lot. And, there was one night that was a defining night for me. And that was a night that I went to a party with my friend and I was supposed to be spending the night at her house. And we had been drinking and I was tired and I really wanted to leave, but she was kind of getting mad at me that I wanted to leave.

So she said, just go hang out and fall asleep somewhere. . And, when I woke up there was. Somebody from high school it took me so long to even figure out where I was and what was happening.

and

Ryan: to hear that.

I just can't even imagine.

 I don't remember a lot that happened right. Immediately after. But I remember looking around just in trying to find my stuff and sneaking out. And I walked around Oak park at like four 30 in the morning and I didn't know what to do.

Karen: And then I remembered that my mom had said I could spend the night at my friend's house if I met them at church in the morning. And so I always remember having to go into this beautiful church, knowing what had just happened to me and knowing that this God that, I thought resided in that building could see everything that had happened to me and it was like a Boulder of shame and the worst pain. that I had ever felt. And I decided that I could not handle that much pain and that much exposure to God. And so I made a decision in my head that I couldn't have a relationship at all with him as small as it was. I just did not want him in my life because if I believed in him, I felt that that would mean that I had to feel ashamed that there was something intrinsically wrong with me that now twice these men had hurt me.

And so there was obviously something I was doing wrong and I didn't know how to make that. Right. So it really started a very, very long spiral. Self abuse through a lot of alcohol, a lot of drugs. Later in my freshman year I met the boy that I would date . And, he was also a drug dealer.

So, yeah, it was a great choice for me.

Ryan: Oh yeah. Right, 

Karen: So he introduced me to drugs. I had up to then only been drinking and, drugs gave me a way to be able to numb the pain without having to sneak alcohol or find somebody to buy it for me. Like I had direct access and it really took me even further out of my pain.

It was a cycle of. chasing that feeling, and then feeling guilty about it and then chasing it and then feeling guilty. And also he was a very controlling boyfriend and so it kind of continued on a daily basis to solidify what I had already thought and that was that I was unworthy of being treated well.

And so,, my sophomore year I was in my first treatment center. it was very short-term and it was actually at a place that was more for mental health issues. And so I thought, okay, my parents think I'm crazy. And so that compounded the shame compounded the pain. I knew that everybody knew that's where I was.

And so then I had to prove myself even more that I have fit in that I was not crazy. And, throughout high school, I spent a lot of my time using and, numbing and hating myself thinking about killing myself all the time. I went through three treatment centers until, I was 17 and then my mom took me to one that was a long-term treatment center.

And the reason why they decided to do that is because I had gone to the doctor. And, my mom was worried because I was losing weight so rapidly. The doctor did all this blood work and said, well, she's losing weight. Cause she has cocaine in her system. She definitely didn't know about that. I knew I had devastated her by that point.

So she took me to a place called crossroads. , that was a long-term treatment center. I was there for four months.

Ryan: Okay.

Karen: so I spent much of my senior year at crossroads getting sober, cleaned 

up. 

Ryan: Yeah. And did that help?

Karen: Yes, , I was pretty motivated by that time because my mom said if this one doesn't work, don't come home.

And I believed her. I knew that it hurt her to say that, but I believe to her, So I worked the program and then when the four months were up, my mom said, we're just not ready. we just need to know she's going to do this. , I went to a sober living house with other women and, was there for a little while. And then, I did well there, so they told my parents, they felt pretty secure by that point that I was working . And so, I transitioned to living at home, but, go into intensive outpatient there and then just go into, I would just went to a, an N a meetings and, I did really well.

So I was 18 at the time and I, ended up staying. Sober for 21 years, so. it stuck for a very, very long time. the problem is that what I did incorrectly is that I did all that work to get clean and to find ways to cope, but I still had never told anybody either of the things that had happened to me.

So those original reasons why I drank and use were still there.

I was just working really hard. I threw myself into the program of a I, I had to go back to high school for a fifth year to finish. I, found out I was pretty smart when I got my ACG score. And then I thought, oh my gosh, I've wasted so much time.

What could I have done in high school? But, I applied to some college. at the, push of my, Dean at the time, and he said, just write a letter and explain, tell them that you're sober now in that look at your act score. And so I did, and I ended up going to Illinois state and, 

Ryan: That's really

Karen: uh, yeah, I was going to study social work.

And so I was there, oh, about a year and I was getting straight A's and I was like in the honor society and all this stuff. And then I met the person who was going to become my husband. And he was, very opposite me. He was very stable and just very conservative, 

he went to church. He. What does everything that I was not. And so I thought, okay, that's the solution? You know, self-medicating with drugs, hadn't worked, all these things have not worked. So maybe this was the answers to have somebody that had that stability. I did what I had learned to do.

I think when you go through trauma and you learn how to survive, that survival instinct stays with you. And so in retrospect, know that I had really learned how to survive. And one of the ways I learned how to survive was to morph myself into any group that I was in. 

But, we got married, within a year and I found out I got pregnant on my honeymoon 

Ryan: Oh my gosh. Wow. you know, he was very conservative and very Catholic. So he was thrilled. that I was pregnant. I was like, this was not my plan. I wanted to finish social work. I wanted to do this. And so I was not even 21 yet.

Karen: I was scared. I was like, I still haven't figured myself out. but I. Learned to always just put my head down and do what needed to get done. And So I had to drop out of school 

Ryan: geez. Yeah.

Karen: and that was really hard to let go of my school. But then when she was born and I held her, it was like the best thing that ever happened to me. And so all I wanted to do was to take care of her and to be with her and to be her mom. And so that made it okay. I think throughout our marriage I knew right away that, His conservatism and his viewpoint on the world, only made me feel worse about myself and, I could , blame a lot of people or I could blame him.

But the fact was that I had experienced so much trauma that being with somebody who was that strong in their convictions , it always felt like I was trying to force myself into this teeny tiny little box.

And, when I didn't fit inside of that, I could distinctly feel his disappointment. And so it was like layering on shame every

single day. And for a long time, I blamed him for that. And now. Through a lot of work. And a lot of God I can see that it was, I should not have been married to anybody.

I hadn't healed my trauma yet, but, I did my best. I threw myself into motherhood. I got pregnant again we found out six months in that, our son had anencephaly. he was not going to survive the pregnancy. 

so the doctor had recommended that if I wanted him to be born and have a chance to hold him alive, that we induce labor at six months.

 they wanted us to go see a specialist in Chicago. And so we went to Chicago and the specialist said that it was actually a lot worse. And so he said, we should actually induce you now, 

Karen: And I, I went through that And I did have that time with him. I feel like him and I lived a lifetime in two 

Ryan: Oh, my

gosh. 

Karen: I just thought of all the things that I would have done and said, and I spent two hours envisioning his life in fast forward.

And, I was very grateful that I got to be there when he came into the world and when he left but after he died and we had the funeral and I just was so hardened to God, And for my husband, it was a terrible loss, but for him and his faith, he was able to say, oh, we have a beautiful Saint in heaven.

And so for him, it was a comfort. And for me, I'm like, I was so mad. And so 

Ryan: And not

helping you. 

Karen: yeah. But what I had learned how to do is to stuff, you know, you can stuff trauma down on top of trauma. And so I just learned to like, okay, I know where to put this press on, press on.

And, ended up having my son, Nicholas, like within a year of that. And then my daughter Sophia, they were only 11 months apart. and then I, started having a lot of issues and ended up in the hospital. . And they said that I needed to have an emergency hysterectomy.

And he's the doctor said, no, there is no decision. So he asked me and I was like, of course do it. Like I want to go home to my kids. So I was only not even 27 yet. And I LA I could not have any more kids. 

but we decided to do foster care. and before we got through that whole process, Somebody called us and said, there is a baby that needs to be adopted.

And he has his, had an adoption set up and they backed out. So do you want to come? And so we went and ended up bringing him home. He had had seizures at birth and that's why the adoptive parents backed out. now Michael, that was his name, Michael. he is probably the closest I came to having real faith during that time of my life because Michael, by then I was, full-fledged trying to become a conservative Catholic, like to fit in.

Like I just wanted some kind of solace. And so, if I could, my husband had encouraged me to homeschool, so I was homeschooling and all these homeschooling groups and I thought, okay, This is where I'm going to finally fit in. And so I did all the things like literally all the things 

Ryan: yeah. 

 and it looked really awesome on the outside.

Karen: It looked so good. And on the inside, I was depressed all the time. I knew who I was. I knew where I had come from. I knew what I had done in my life. And I knew that this was not, this did not feel authentic to me. but it made life a lot easier at home. And so, you know, it was in the midst of that, that we got Michael and everybody, it was like, this is an answer to prayer.

Look how good God is. And, Again, I fell in love with the baby. I fell in love with Michael, like my kids were everything. And so, I threw myself into taking care of him and we found out six weeks in that, Michael had pretty severe brain damage and they told us he wouldn't live to be a year.

Ryan: gosh, Karen,

Karen 

Karen: I loved him. You know, when you have a child that has special needs, it's a different kind of love. It's so deep. And so he was so mine, so there was no way, like, I, I was going to take this ride with him. And so we all did, we all did, even the kids, we said, we're not going to treat his life as a death watch.

We're going to enjoy every moment that we have with him. And we really did. And they did.

Ryan: so that's so admirable too. , I can't even imagine what that would be like, , to know that there is a, time, and, just to mentallybattle that on top of all the stuff that has been shoved down, it's not like you had a firm foundation at this point to stand on because your foundation was a lot of compacted.

Karen: Well, that's what I think, , I've kind of walked through all that . I could do it because I knew how to survive. I knew, I had to put my head down and get through something and I knew how to love my kids. So that's what made everything possible.

I was not a good wife. I I didn't know how to love another adult and not fear being hurt all the time. And so I never really, I don't think I ever truly opened myself up to that marriage at all, but I knew how to love my kids. And so I loved Michael with a ferocity that, overshadowed everything else.

And, it was the hardest and best thing I ever did in my life. He was in and out of the hospital, his whole life. He surpassed the one year and kept going. He, they told us he was blind. He was deaf. he couldn't feed himself. So we had to tube feed him. They told me he would never smile. He smiled all the time. 

Ryan: my gosh. Wow.

Karen: was, yeah. He and he had like this life force that people wanted to be around. So it was when he was almost two that, he really started, he didn't start having, he always had seizures his whole life, but, before he turned two, he started having like almost 200 a day.

And 

Ryan: my goodness.

Karen: yeah, he was having a lot of breathing issues and they said, The demands of his body, his brain, because of the damage cannot keep up with it. 

So we, we decided for hospice. And that was such a hard decision, I 

Ryan: even imagine. In those final days, that was the only day that I saw a glimpse of God, which is so ironic.

 I was at the foot of the cross. I got it. I understood like this is Mary at the foot of the cross, right? This is somebody watching their innocent son suffer. And 

Ryan: Oh, my gosh. 

Karen: prayed for the first time. And I just said, I know that he is not mine. I know that he was again, And that he's yours and that you want him back and you're going to take them back, whether I say yes or not.

And I remember saying to God,, I'm going to say, yes, I'm going to give him back to you because it doesn't matter now because of the way I feel about you. But I think someday it's going to matter that I said yes, to giving him back to you.

 And he died within 48 hours of that. So

Ryan: gosh. 

 Gosh, I'm so sorry. That must have been so hard. So, so, so Michael, Michael passes away. And now what I mean, how did you, what, what, how did that impact your marriage? I mean, I can't imagine

Karen: . 

aggrieved in such different ways. You know, he did that Michael was a Saint and I gave him that I didn't argue the point, but to me, I just knew that I missed my son and I know that he missed him too, but he had that solace of his faith that Michael was in a better place. And I was having dreams every night that I was in a department store and I couldn't find my son and I was running through aisles trying to find him and I couldn't find him.

And so I felt like, I don't know where my son is. Because I didn't have the faith of heaven. I didn't believe it. And so it was like he was gone, but where, and that haunted me, I was haunted. so yeah, I think, I think it pushed us apart a lot. I think I worked really hard to try to be somebody through those years that I wasn't, I really became focused on my other children.

And, as our marriage deteriorated, I became more and more depressed and thought often of I can't go on, I don't know how I'm going to do this. made myself keep doing it because of how much I love my kids and I wanted, I just wanted them to have a happy life. I wanted them to have. Both parents.

I wanted them, you know, they had already lost their brother. I don't want any thing else bad to happen. I think, when my youngest was 16, it came down to, I will not survive if I stay in this marriage. And that was the hardest decision I had ever made because I never put my own needs in front of my kids.

And my mom had said to me, I'm afraid I'm gonna lose you if you stay in this marriage. and I started drinking again because I was too afraid to leave. I was too afraid to be by myself. 

Ryan: okay. 

Karen: I was almost at 23 years sober when I took a drink. And, that pretty much did in our marriage.

That was it. he tried for a while to take the kids because , he thought, well, if you're drinking and you're not going to church and all these things, like you're not fit to be a mother. And that was like the fate worse than death to be separated from my kids. . And by that time I was a full fledged alcoholic. I was drinking. Every day I would get through school or, you know, I put myself through school as a very active alcoholic and somehow graduated with a 3.88. I was like, I don't know how I did that.

But, got through school, got my kids, but drinking all the time. And the three years that I was drinking again, where the worst three years of my life, they like, they tell you in a that if you ever go back out, if you ever relapsed, you will pick up where you left off, if not worse. And definitely, it was worse.

I think I came to the crashing point when I left a bar one night and I was followed out and I was attacked and beat

Karen: up. 

Ryan: No way

Karen: Yes. And.

a drunk woman at a bar thought I was looking at her weird and saying things to her. And so she followed me out to my car and beat me up. I woke up the next morning and said, I don't know what I'm doing.

, what am I doing to myself? And I went into the bathroom and I had like, my nose was messed up and I had a fat lip and I had a black eye and I was so hung over and I just cried and cried and I begged God. And I said, give me the courage to kill myself. I wanted to

die. And all this time, I just have to backtrack a little that when I had gotten my kids back , I took a job with the salvation army.

And, I had discovered that I didn't know, the salvation army was a church.

Ryan: could you take us back real quick? How, tell us about how you even got that job? Like what, how did that even come

up? 

Karen: I know. Right. Cause I was not a fan of religion. I didn't know when I applied for that job

Ryan: so how did You get the job? How did you even find the job at salvation?

when I moved back , I answered an ad for an administrative assistant. And I thought, well, that's something I could do. And it's full-time and they've benefits. And I need that. So I went on the interview and she asked me what I knew about the salvation army.

Karen: And I said, you have thrift stores and you have those annoying people that ring the bells outside the store is that Christmas. And she's like, is that really all? You know? And I'm like, yeah, sorry. She's like, it's okay. I was not offering a lot in this interview.

So I finally told her, I said, I will do whatever it takes to, make you so glad that you hired me.

Ryan: wow.

Karen: I laughed there and I'm like, there's no way you got that job.

And then she called me and, she said, I've been praying about it. And God is telling me to hire you. You're definitely not the best qualified, but he has made it very clear that you're supposed to work 

Ryan: Oh

my gosh. 

Karen: so, I always call it rear view, mirror theology.

Like you can see in the rear view mirror, how God had made that happen. Like he knew where he needed me to be. So he, he put that on her heart to hire.

Ryan: Yeah. That's amazing. And how was it when you first started?

Like, you know, 

Karen: Well, I thought it was so weird. I thought it was like a call, like these officers were coming in these uniforms, like, what's that about? but then I like fell in love with the work cause I was an admin in the social services department.

 I had no idea, the salvation army does so much. They had food pantries, homeless shelters, domestic abuse shelters. They worked anti human trafficking. All these things that the social worker in me was like, this is the best thing ever. And so I fell in love.

The fact that they did this work. And then, you know, that guy that kept coming by my office and his uniform told me that everybody in a uniform as a pastor, my mind was blown because I'm like, but you're married. 

Ryan: Oh, 

Karen: they're like, well, we serve together when near a salvation army officer, you serve together. And I'm like, what? So women are preaching. And he was like, yeah. And I'm like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen, but I loved the social work part of it. So that's what drew me in , God is always in the details because he knew my heart.

Right. He knew my heart was for social work. To love people. And he put me in the right place 

Ryan: Right place right

time.

Karen: That they had been trying to get me to come to church. And I really did not want to go to church because obviously I've made it pretty clear how I feel about God. And I had been dabbling in other things like, new age stuff.

And I had gone to like this some church, I don't know, I had gone to some wacky things. And I had like, in my cubicle at the salvation army, I had like Buddha and the Dalai Lama and like all this stuff and the officers and the salvation army, I didn't realize they were all pastors. And this one guy would come by and look at my cubicle and be like, okay, that's interesting.

And then finally, one day he said, can I ask you a question? I said, sure. And he said, what do you believe in? And I said, Everything and nothing. It was like, okay, that's interesting. Then he kept coming by 

and he's like, well, you don't have to listen, but I'm just curious about who you are and what you believe in. And then he had said, if you ever want to talk about what we believe in or ask questions, you can come to my office.

And I said, listen, I know that you pastors, you just want people to come in your office and say that Jesus' prayer and get saved. I am not interested. And he said, well, why aren't you interested in it? I said, because he costs too much. And they're like, what? And I said, Jesus costs too much. I'm not interested.

And so, 

Ryan: quick. I mean, so many people I believe can, can relate to that because it really comes down to, , maybe a skewedperspective of just who he is. You know, we're all this trauma, all this baggage, this stuff that never gets dealt with that compiles and compiles starts to really shape like God, if you know, if you're really out there, how can all this stuff be happening to

me? ? And it, and it overlooks the fact that trauma and sin and, and the, the, the darkness of the world. has a negative impact on us and it, and it leads us down a path that is not good, you know, until Jesus rescues us until we cry out to him. And so, I mean, I just wanted to interject there because I could just think so many of our listeners who maybe have things in their past that are, is kind of hiding, it's so important to be able to find a safe person or even just go to Jesus himself and to NT talk and to, and to pray and say, God deal with this thing in me.

Cause otherwise that you could go down this trajectory, that's not good. Right?

Karen: Yeah. Yeah. I think what really hit home for me one day is the, officer's name is major Jesse. He said, Karen, I'm just wondering, do you know how much God loves you ? And I laughed. I laughed right in that man's face. And I said, give me a break. And he said, you don't believe that God loves you. And I said, no.

I said, if you had lived my life, you would have never believed God could love you either. I said, if he loved me, he has a funny way of showing it. Like it made me so mad that he said that. So I'm there. And there was another officer there that would, cook meals for for their advisory board meetings once a month.

And she always gave me some because I was like a single mom and trying to get back on my feet. One day she was making corn beef, but I love corn VF. And like, oh, I said, can I have some of that? And she said, no. And I was 

Ryan: my gosh. 

Karen: what, what do you mean?

No, you always give me food. She goes, no, I'm not giving you any more food. I said, why? And she's like, I want you to come to church. And I said, you're withholding food. So I come to church, like, is that the way you guys roll? And she was like, I'll make you a whole corn beef dinner just for yourself. You can take home all the leftovers.

If she's like, you can come over, we'll eat, I'll give you all the leftovers. If you come to church on Sunday, I said, you're bribing me to come to church. And she's like, yeah, I just don't think you will though. And I was like, I'm that kind of person where if you tell me I can't, I'm going to, so I was like, okay, fine.

I'll go. I'll go to your church. I don't care. It's an hour out of my day. What do I care? So I went, but the very first song they sang was like this song. The fountain of blood that came from Jesus, his side. And I was like, this is ridiculous. This is terrifying. I don't want to 

Ryan: oh my

gosh. 

Karen: I literally got up and left during the opening song.

And she called me later that day and she's like, okay, so what time do you want to come for dinner? I was like, well, I didn't stay. And she said, I didn't say you had to stay. I just said to come. So it was enough that I showed up. Yeah, so we ended up, like, I ended up going, which I couldn't even believe I went to her house and we talked and she asked me why I was so angry about God. And for some reason I told her . And when I told her, like, during my divorce, Oh, the Catholic homeschoolers and everybody had like, turn their back on me.

I lost all my friends. People told me I was going to hell for leaving my marriage. Like, why would I want to believe in God? Why would I want religion if I'm obviously condemned? So what's the point? Like, there's no hope for me, I'm broken. And when I looked up, she was crying and she said, I'm so sorry. The people of God have hurt you.

Ryan: Yeah. 

Karen: And I'm like, oh, nobody's ever said

Ryan: my

gosh.

Karen: And she said,

yeah, she said, do you think you could forgive us? I said, but it wasn't you. And she said, well, I represent religion. I represent God as a pastor. And I just really want to ask your forgiveness. And I was like, okay, this is new. This is weird. I don't know.

So she intrigued me enough that I, Started to slowly go to church, but I would only stay a couple minutes and then she got moved. And the new pastor came and apparently she had told him about me. So they kind of, took up the mantle of trying to get me to stay at church a little longer.

And he would start to say at the beginning of church, everybody looked at your watch. Let's see how long Karen stays today. but then fast forward to the day in the bathroom because I was going there and still drinking. and so I had come to that decision about I'm either going to take my life or something has to change.

And I had prayed, like, I don't know why I prayed, , Jesus helped me take my own life. I can't live like this anymore. And, and I think that other than that time in the bathroom with Michael. it was the only time I felt his presence and I felt him saying, no, I have something else for you to do.

And I was like, what more could you ever want from me? I think I've given enough. And he said, just please get up and take a shower and go to church. And so I went to church and, the next week was good Friday and my boss came. It was my boss and her husband was this major Jessie guy who always asked me about my Buddhas.

And so they came in and I was sitting by myself and they came and they sat on either side of me and major, Jesse said, well, now your boss is sitting on the other side of you. I don't think you're going to run today. And I was like, that is so shady. So, good Friday was the first time I stayed through the whole entire service.

And after that I started to stay. I still didn't understand it. And every time they said Jesus's name, I would feel like this pain. It was the worst pain in my heart. . And so I. Major Jessie. I said, this is why I don't stay at church because when I hear the name of Jesus, I get this pain and it's like, I have to go, I get panicked.

 I said, so obviously he doesn't want me there . And he said, let me ask you a question. Did you ever have sleepovers when you're a kid? And I said, yeah. And he said, did you miss your mom when you were there? I said, yeah, I was the worst. I was such a mama's girl.

Like I would get like that anxious feeling. And I missed her so much. It like hurt how much I missed her. And he's like, that's, what's happening. You have cut off a relationship with your savior and your heart, your mind, your gut, everything in you is yearning and you are stopping it. And so your body hurts and you feel like this fight or flight, like I can't get to him.

I don't know. I miss them like. He said your soul is crying out for him. And it's a separation and separation hurts. 

Ryan: Wow, 

Karen: I was like I don't know if that's it because I really don't like him. I don't like when he's in my life and the prices I have to pay. And he said, how are the prices since you stopped following him?

How are the prices since you've been drinking again, 

Ryan: Wow. Yeah, that's a great

question. 

Karen: And I was like, yeah, it's not so good. 

Ryan: Ah, 

Karen: So he

S he said, why don't you just take it slow? The pastor of the church , had said, why don't you start dating Jesus since you're single anyway. And I was like, what is that? That's kind of crazy.

And he said, well, you've never gotten to know him, like in your faith, growing up, you knew like the traditions and the rules. And, but you never knew Jesus. So. When you date somebody, you spend time with them, you ask them questions, you learn who their family is, where they're from. And I'm like, well, so what, I'm going to talk to Jesus.

And he's going to tell me, like, I was always sarcastic and he's like, no, you got to get to know him in his words. So you need to actually read scripture and start to pray. And so that's what I started to do. And I was like, why are you doing this? . It was happening. , it took me a while. They had classes like where you could go and learn about the faith and he would go through the doctrines . At the end of every class, he would say, does anybody other than Karen have any questions? And then he would be like, okay, Karen, let's lay it on me. And I think for me, I needed to learn who Jesus was intellectually and in my heart, because, if I was going to believe this, I didn't want anybody to ever be able to talk me out of it. 

Like how can I truly take him on and not discard him? If things get hard again, like, how am I going to do that? And so I was very. Stubborn. And I asked a lot of questions and I struggled with so many aspects of the doctrine. It was too prickly to me. And then I don't know what happened. One day I was at church and I couldn't move from the pew afterwards.

And the pastor said, we're going to have a potluck. Are you going to come and eat? And I said, I can't leave. And he said, maybe you're supposed to ask Jesus to be in your life. And I'm like, is this that Jesus prayer? And he's like, well, we don't really do that. You do it in your own words in your own way.

And I said, can you just like leave me alone?

Ryan: Uh, 

Karen: I, I sat there and I'm like, I'm not leaving until you come into my heart, whatever that means, whatever that looks like. I'm not moving from this pew because I can't keep going the way I'm going. I I'm too angry. I'm too hurt. I've struggled too long.

I'm not leaving. And I can, outwait you? I think

Ryan: good

luck. 

Karen: I was bold 

Ryan: Yeah, you're a feisty

Karen: I was, and it happened like something just shifted inside of me and

 I left and it wasn't like I stopped drinking right away or I stop do it living the life that I was living, but something was different. And every single day it got harder and harder to live my life.

The way I was living it until finally I said, I can't keep drinking and keep going to church. , it doesn't match. And so I walked into an AA meeting and said that I had been back out for three years and then I needed help. And I made myself very accountable to people and got sober and life changed at a breakneck speed after.

Ryan: yeah, Praise God. 

 Wow. So from, staying at the bar until the wee morning, I mean, how, how late would you be staying out at

these bars?so the bars in the small town where I was living at the time would have last call at four o'clock. . And when they said last call, I would buy like three drinks, so I could have three drinks to finish. And then I would go home and sleep for a couple of hours and go to work.

Karen: And I know that the salvation army knew I was coming in, hung over. I know they had to have, and 

Ryan: And they still loved 

Karen: loving me. 

Ryan: and they just, they were persistent in that. , 

Karen: yeah. It was

crazy. 

Ryan: Yeah. So you got sober , and, life started to change, so , how are things going?

Karen: Oh my gosh, my life, if it looks nothing like what it used to, you know, I went into AA and my first couple of meetings, I just said, I just don't want to feel tired and sick anymore. And, at the same time of going to all those meetings, I was going to church and taking these classes and praying and dating Jesus.

Like, I feel like he had waited for me so long that he was like, okay, I got her now I got to hold onto her. It was like, okay. I accepted you as my savior. I'm I got sober. I quit smoking. Like, I'm not dating guys. I'm not going to bars. Like what more could you want for me please?

And. It was like crystal clear my heart, that he was calling me to officer ship. And I'm like, you have lost your mind. Like you literally picked me up 

Ryan: know me? 

Karen: after a bar fight and told me to go to church. Like you think somebody like me can be a pastor and put on that uniform. You there's no way. And so it was like this nagging, , people will say like, have all these beautiful moments, how they knew they were called to be, ordained or to go to officer ship.

And mine is like, he bothered me every single day until I gave in. And I remember going to major Jessie and saying. I don't know what's going on. God wants more for me. And he goes, yeah, we all know that. And I'm like, what? And then that lady, the lady who had bribed me with the corn beef, she had moved .

And I called her and she said, oh, I'm so happy you called. I pray for you every day. I'm like you do. And I said, well, I gotta ask you something. And she said, well, I'm going to stop you. And I just want you to know that if you're going to ask me, if I think you're supposed to be a salvation army officer, I already knew you are supposed to be one.

I knew that the first day I met you, 

I was so annoyed. And so then I went back to major Jess and I said, well, maybe God wants me to be a chaplain. I could be a chaplain. And he goes, I think you need to keep praying.

So then I like went back a couple of days later and I'm like, well, you guys do mission trips. Maybe I'm just supposed to go on a mission trip. And he goes, oh, I think you should kill back and keep praying. I was like trying to negotiate with God. Right? And then,

his wife, my boss finally said to me, listen, Karen, God is calling you.

Karen: That's obvious to everybody, but you, you do not have to answer that call. You could go on working here and have your little house and have this job and serve him in other ways. And you can have a happy. But you will not have true joy in your life. If you know, he's calling you and you do not answer. And I said, well, I kind of want true joy.

 I didn't get sober to just be happy. I want to know. I've never in my entire life felt true joy. I want to know what that's like. They're like,We would just have to like, have you go to seminary pretty soon, but you're good. And I'm like, ,

did you not notice my tattoos? They're like, yeah. That's okay. so I'm okay to go.

And they're like, yeah, I like, I walked out of there, like what is going on?

Ryan: imagine, like a God who would be so accepting and loving, , , when your past experiences have kind of shaped your perspective to be otherwise,

Karen: well, I think, I think what happened, like what the cincher was, as I, I said, I cannot make this decision. I just could not make it. And so I, I took a weekend away to go pray and I was sitting on the beach and I had my Bible and I opened it and it opened a revelations where he says behold, I make all things new.

It felt like that was his love letter to me. Like every single thing I had been through, like being molested, being raped, all the trauma in my marriage with losing children, everything that had happened, like he was saying, I'm going to take all of that and make it new and use it for my greater purposes.

And I called you as you are. You don't have to be something for the first time in your life. You don't have to be anybody, but who you are and I'm going to use it. And I believed him and that was like the censure for me, that he has made that all new. And I was ordained. I every morning, I wake up still in awe that I get to do the work that I get to do that I get to combine God and helping. And I met somebody. Who's just an amazing man who I get to do ministry with and who sees me as I am. And who shows me the love of God?

Ryan: So good. it's been so good. Your story is just so encouraging. 

I do have actually two last questions for you. How good was the corn beef.

I mean really 

Karen: It was so good. It was so good that like I've had corn beef cents and I'm like, Hmm, 

Ryan: just

doesn't cut it.

Karen: as good as hers. It was something magical about that corn.

Ryan: Jesus corn

beef right there. 

Karen: It was,

Ryan: Jesus sprinkled up 

Karen: was, it was holy, holy corn

beef. 

Ryan: Oh man. That's so good. , What do you think would have happened if you didn't eat that?

Karen: oh man. I would have, without sitting down with her at that table that night, I would have never known that there could ever be room at his table.

Ryan: man. Whew.

Karen: Yeah.

 Yeah. It was that important.

Ryan: Well done, messed up my makeup. Karen.

Karen: I hate that. I'm sorry.

Ryan: Praise God. ,nothing. I'll say that's so good, Karen.

All right. You get it, girl. thank you so much for joining us. We hope and pray that all of our listeners would be really blessed by your story.

I know they will.

Karen: Well, thank you so much for having me 

 Hey friends. Thanks so much for listening in today to hear about Karen's inspirational story. If you would like to hear more about the salvation army and what they do. Join us next week. We have a bonus show. Join our email list. Subscribe by going to 180 podcast.com backslash subscribe. 

And you'll get that in your inbox next week, that link is also in our show notes. 

Thanks.

Get Karen’s bonus show on the Salvation Army by joining our email list. 

The Salvation Army. 

Alcoholics Anonymous. 

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.