#110: A.I., New World Order, Science, the Future, and After-Death Communications w/ Alex Tsakiris

I welcome to the show author and podcaster Alex Tsakiris to discuss artificial intelligence, death, podcasting, NWO, grief, and after-death communications. We discuss the world of podcasting and 'conspiretainment', what happened to podcasting for the TRUTH, what is A.I., how to A.I. everything is a chess game, protein folding, death and grief, how A.I. is moving too fast and the implications of that, the new world order, pre-cognitive dreaming, MK-Ultra, after-death communications, and how it has ben proved that we are NOT some sort of robots!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Divulgence, everybody. Uh very excited today. We have podcaster, author, researcher of the Skeptico podcast, Alice Securis. Alex, how are you today, my friend? So nice to meet you. So happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hey, great, Jordan. I think this is gonna be fun. You know, you reached out to me and then we uh kind of batted it around a little bit, but now I'm here and yeah, gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Yeah, so it's really nice to meet you. I've uh when I first started getting into more researching things and listening to you know more interesting, deeper podcasts. Um yeah, I came across you. Um, I think the first time I may have heard you was either with in a conversation with William Ramsey or uh it might have been when you were on Sam Tripoli's show uh years back now. Um, and yeah, I just I really took to the way that you say things and what you say, and I I just thought to myself, well, if if I ever make a podcast, I would really like to talk to him or meet him. So here we are. So again, it's really nice to meet you. Um maybe we can just start with um yeah, a little bit of introductory stuff. Um, why don't you tell us a little, uh, myself and the listeners, a little bit about yourself and the uh um the type of stuff you're interested in, the type of stuff you've worked on. I know you've got uh I know you have uh why evil matters here. I picked that up. Um I haven't finished it yet, but um yeah, quite interesting. Um, and I know you have your skeptical podcast and whatnot. So yeah, why don't you take the stage for a little bit, Alex? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Well, uh, you know, I'm trying to think of an interesting way to do that because I I think the intros are always kind of boring. I I I what we were talking about just a minute ago, I think is kind of relevant in that, you know, I started podcasting a long time ago, like 15 years ago or so, and uh longer than that actually. And I started it with one purpose is because I wanted to know shit that I couldn't know otherwise, because you can't call up people and ask them questions, you know what I mean? Especially back then, people who were writing books, people leading researchers, I was really into science and stuff like that, especially somewhat what you would call fringe science. But then I also was interested in what people who were against that fringe science had to say, and there was no way to really carry on a dialogue, and then along came podcasting, and as long as you kind of front it as being somebody who had a podcast, you know, especially back then, it was super easy to book people, and I booked a lot of really uh what I considered, you know, super big name people for me that I wanted to talk to. I talked to uh Rupert Sheldrick and Dean Raden on, you know, I think my true first two shows, and I think they are super, super good and important people. And uh Rupert wound up writing the four to my first book, which I was very grateful of. But I mean, these guys are like heavy duty, heavy hitter, you know. Rupert his science credentials are just amazing, and you know, he's actually gotten kind of more popular since then. So, anyways, that strategy totally worked, you know, for podcasting. But then my gripe uh that I was expressing to you is somewhere along the line it turned into this conspiratement thing, which you know it's okay, it's kind of like true crime. Uh, my wife's a forensic psychologist, does a lot of true crime, does a lot of TV shows on true crime. I get it. People just slop it up. That's okay. I'm not judging, but damn man, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be about the fucking truth, right? All I wanted was the fucking truth. You don't have to fucking entertain me, you don't have to pump it up and you know what's going on, and magic with the K. Is magic real? That's that's a real question. Who am I? Why am I here? That's a real question, but you know, who is Alistair Crowley? Hell yeah, we need to know that, but not in some, you know, just woo-woo-ish in another way kind of thing. So I don't know. But I think it comes back around because for the last year I've been on hiatus, and the thing is I've just done a deep, deep, deep dive into AI. I mean, I was programming and still am programming AI, you know, just before we got on, you know, two minutes before we got on. And that's the truth. That's the new, that's the new truth bomb. That's the the I have a uh a nonprofit that I've set up called the future of inquiry. That's the future of inquiry. Fuck you podcasters. You're all fucked, you're all full of shit. Just ask AI any one of those fucking questions you have, and the answer's all there. So you can believe that there's no such thing as viruses. That's one of the things that drove me nuts is having these debates about is there even such a thing as viruses? Does is rabies real? You know, like, okay, you know, let's set our brain over, let's set our brain off there to the side and just have a stupid, stuck on stupid conversation. That is done. You know what that's done? That's done with AI. AI doesn't tolerate any of that nonsense. And it used to flip-flop six months ago. You could flip it back and forth to get it through that. It ain't doing that much anymore, it's just spotting the stupid stuff and just going right past it. So that's my thing. There you go. There's the whole show right there.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Okay, well, thank you for your time, my friend. And hopefully, you can come back again. And um, that's cool, man. So you're working with AI now. So uh can you tell me a little bit about you know what kind of work you do with AI and the future of inquiry? That's that sounds really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Well, you you tell me, Jordan, since I I did kind of grab the mic there. Uh again, I have it from good authority, AI, that you're a little bit skeptical of AI. And I think a lot of people are, and a lot of people in quote unquote our community, and I don't want to totally throw shade on the conspiracy community because it's what got us here. We were in the dark ages, you know. We we did live through the dark ages when you know, up was down and the sky is, you know, all this, you know. But why are you suspicious of AI? What is your hesitation? What do you know? How how much have you explored it? How much have you really what do you even understand it to be? Because I think a lot of people don't even understand what it really is.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

That's an interesting question, actually. Um what's yeah, but I mean, we can uh we can start there, but I'll I'll answer your question first. I guess my um my hesitation or worries would just be uh primarily a big thing would be the speed at which we're taking things, and um I just I don't know if these people like Elon Musk or Sam Altman or all you know there's there's quite a few of these AI companies now uh with with big dollars, and you just hope that they're following proper guidelines, if there are any guidelines, because again, it it is moving quite quickly. Um I mean another thing is of course the whole um job replacement, taking jobs, and I think I think that that I think that that's very significant, but I also think that it it's possible that it is it could be overhyped um in the sense that with time we can learn to adapt properly um to ensure that there are you know jobs out there in this new AI um concentrated world. Um but again if you're if you're rushing into a lot of these things, like I just saw um a couple days ago that some I I can't remember the country, uh it might have even been in the states, but some McDonald's locations are using some robots and some robots. Um and it's not just AI, it's it's it's kind of like it's kind of like the robots and and the you know technology itself. And I mean AI seems to be they're trying to uh pack AI into almost any uh kind of product that you get these days. Um so I it is very um connected. So that's I'd say that's a big a big a big issue with me. Um it's not that I'm super overly scared, um, but there is some um there's I guess maybe some mistrust and some worries that you hope that these people have um the best thing in mind and safety in mind. Um so yeah, I I'd say that encapsules a lot of it. Uh but on to I mean it's a great question that you say, you know, do I know what it is? Um yes and no. Um I definitely don't think I could provide like the accurate answer. Um, but I you know, I think I do kind of understand that it's uh you know somewhere that you know somewhere this AI system is that you're typing into, for example, is connected to you know a working system um that is taking your input and based on uh you know the the AI's experience, which I guess would be you know just scanning the internet or whatever um these creators are putting into it, um, and then the understanding of the world and its systems that it gets from that, um maybe not that simplistic, but uh and then you know it gives me an output based on that. Uh and then and that could be manipulated in different ways for many different uses, obviously. Um, so you're you're obviously more of an AI user and more of an expert. So can you give me like a proper definition of what it is? And and yeah, can you rate my definition? How bad was my definition?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Pretty pretty bad.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I love it. I love it. Honestly, I appreciate that because I just want to go back to another thing that that you said. Um, the reason that you created my your podcast is very similar to mine. I want to learn shit and I want to meet interesting people, uh, people who I think are good people, um, and who are actually looking for, like you said, the truth. So um, yeah, I appreciate I appreciate that. So so give me give me a better definition. So next time I I don't have to look like such a jackass.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

No, you don't look like a jackass. It's I mean, first, like I I was very fortunate, you know. Well, and I was really interested in this stuff for a long time. So when I went to school, I was interested in computer science, and then I went and got a job as a programmer, and then I went back to get a PhD, and that's back in the 80s, when late 80s at least, but it was back in the 80s when AI was kind of taking off, and that's what I wanted to do. So I jumped into AI as uh part of my PhD, and I got two years into it, and I go, screw the PhD, I'll just start my own AI company and I'll be rich. So I started Mind Path Technologies, and it didn't make me rich, but uh it it sprung me into another tech company that did make me rich. So it maybe in an indirect way it it did, it did its job, but super interested in AI from way back. So this second wave has been just right up my alley, super exciting, everything that I was always about. So it's you know, you don't have that, I'm assuming you don't have that kind of tech background, so you're not supposed to look at this stuff and understand its historical significance, its historical roots, what it's really all about, and then a deeper technical understanding of it. So do you uh do what do you like in terms of like gaming? Uh like you do chess, crossword puzzles, do you do online gaming? Do you do FIFA? Do you do Call of Duty? Do you do anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Um, it's I've I've been cutting back the gaming over the last uh year or so, but I would say uh a mixture of like adventure uh and exploration with uh a little bit of using your mind, so like puzzles or something. Um, and and growing up, I've I you know I enjoyed uh word searches or chess. Um I'd love to get back into chess. Um, so yeah, there's a few things that well.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So what uh what what game do you like, or what game did you like, you know, a few years ago?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Were you a Fortnite guy or uh I really enjoyed the The Last of Us, the two those two games. I don't know. Are you familiar with The Last of Us? They they made it into a series, a TV series, but at first it was a game, a video game.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Did not I don't know that one.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Okay, um, it's a mixture of uh survival and kind of a zombie game almost. Um, but not your your not too cliche of a zombie game, but it's a lot of exploration and like actually they they combine very you know a very uh dark subject with very beautiful landscapes and art, and uh you know, they take the weather and and the graphics, and it's just beautiful scenery, uh, and and colors and everything. So that's a big reason that that pulled me to it. So it's a mixture of exploring puzzles and uh shooting.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Awesome. The last of us. So I'll have to check out at least a couple of uh uh YouTube's just to kind of watch as a as a yeah as a look around or uh so you you know you know chess a little bit, so chess is uh chess is an easy one to do. So the smartest chess player in the world by far is a computer, but also the smartest chess player probably in history is alive today, human chess player. His name is Magnus Carlsen from Norway. Um, but the computer beats Magnus about three out of four times, and we know that because it's all done by ELO ratings, and a lot of games are. There's probably ELO ratings for uh The Last of Us, too. I mean, a lot of these games now have ELO ratings, you know. So if you play chess and you go on to chess.com or anything like that, you you don't go on with the presupposition that you are going to really play the computer, you know, you're not gonna beat the computer. The greatest human chess player ever barely ever beats the computer, you know. The computer is smartest in that domain.

unknown 16:24

I'm not quite sure how to help you with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Well, the the reality that most people first need to come to grips with is that most things in this world that you think you know look a lot like a chess game to a computer, to AI, let's say. To AI, everything's a chess game, pretty freaking easy chess game, really. Most of the stuff you think is hard is just a chess game, and the way it dominates that domain, it dominates a bunch of other domains. You know, maybe you heard about the AI thing when so AI first conquered uh chess, and then a significantly harder game strategically is Go, and then uh Alpha Go, which is Google Company. Now, this is probably 10-15 years ago, it beat the best uh Korean Go players. Go is like super popular in Korea, like when they have matches, it's like on TV, people are like watching it, you know, like we watch football or something. Nice, yeah. I agree, very nice. So they went over there and they just whipped them all, and it was a big surprise because no one thought Go was whippable, but it was so AI's smartest, and then those guys said the Google uh Alpha Go guys, DeepMind guys said, Well, Go was kind of interesting to beat because people know the game, but we can do other stuff that's kind of like the Go game. Like, how about we do this thing protein folding? Protein folding is like a significant step in medicine and bio science, shit like that. It takes about four PhDs, like six months a year to do a protein fold. How long does it take the Go program adapted for protein folding? How long does it take it? Four minutes. I'll answer. That's a leading question. About four minutes. Okay, so four PhDs, six months, top PhDs, best PhDs, AI, four minutes. So is it gonna take your job? Fuck yes, that's a non-issue. That's not even a question. If it wants your job, and we shouldn't say it it wants your job, if it makes sense for the people who are in a position to do it, target your job. Well, it can probably do your job. There's some jobs that are less susceptible to it than others, but that issue of you know, a South Park kind of they took my job kind of thing, uh, or our jobs, they say they took our jobs. What do they say? They ticky jeevs. There we go. I needed a Canadian to say that. So, you know, that's kind of a done deal, but kind of something that we don't talk a lot about because people can't wrap their head around the fact that, yeah, of course it's gonna take your job, but you're just kind of being a Luddite because somebody was always trying to take your job. That's no different than five years ago, ten years ago, a hundred years ago. It's a competition, you're in a competitive environment. And unless you want to just work, you know, be on the dial from for the state and just pick up your, you know, tick up your gruel from the uh through through the line of the state sponsored thing that you're yeah, it's a competition, yeah. And it's it's a different competition now with AI. And the same goes with everything, it's too fast, it's too fast, it's too dangerous. For who? And compared to what? It's dangerous, compared to what? Compared to some guy cooking up all the stuff that they can easily cook up in their basement in terms of uh a bioweapon or even some other kind of weapon, or you know, carbon printing, a gun, or whatever they're gonna do, you know, compared to what is it too dangerous and too fast? And too fast, you know, there's this famous, I guess kind of famous in the last six months or AI guy goes around, he does these presentations, and he always starts with this these two photographs. He shows New York, 1903, Broadway, you know, Main Street. It's all mud, and there's hundreds and hundreds of horse carriages, and there's one car, there's one car there, and they got the same picture 10 years later. 10 years is not a long time, it's all cars, there's one little horse carriage there, so too fast. No, there's never been too fast. The the people who are going to thrive and survive were always moving fast because you don't get to decide how fast stuff moves, you just get to decide whether you adapt or not, or not, you don't even get to decide whether you adapt, you decide how you adapt because that's the only question.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

This one right here.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent, Jordan. There it is. I mean that's it. Right? Too fast, Jordan. Too fast. Too scary. Too scary. What about these cars?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And it's almost like you you can't even. And I know this is like just a personal me bitching about something personally, a personal preference, but I feel like when I was younger and the technology started moving a bit quicker, it was still moving at a rate where you know, oh, this is new, and I can still enjoy it for a while before the next thing comes. But now you're in the phase where you know it's like get the new iPhone every year, uh, get the new this every year. Um yeah, and it's like you can't even enjoy it's hard for some things, it's hard to enjoy it because they're just pumping the next best thing in your face.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Um, so yeah, but again, that's kind of a well, it it it's it's to me, it's kind of like the the most fundamental thing that I care about really with the future of inquiry and with Skeptico, where I was always going with Skeptico, I just was kind of a little bit coy about saying it. Uh, but I kind of said it in this book that I wrote, I don't know, a year ago, year and a half ago, called uh why ai. And it's uh smartest, dangerous, and divine uh was the thing. And my really my thing has always been about divinity is the wrong word, spirituality, you know, the ultimate question: who am I? Why am I here? You know, some of the the famous yogis, they would just for years and years just sit with one question and just ask that same question in meditation all day for years. Who am I? Who am I? I'm Alex. No, that doesn't really work. I'm a podcaster, I'm a man. No, uh I'm a husband and father. No, who am I? Who am I really? Who am I really? AI is gonna be a huge, huge leap forward in answering that question. Who am I? You know why? Because it forces a collapse of all the fakery that you entertain with your monkey brain and my monkey brain, which is constantly spinning and telling us we're this, we're that, you know, move on to the next thing, and we're never slowing it down enough to say, who am I really? But when AI just runs circles around all your ideas of who you think you are, you are forced to confront who you are, and that perhaps you're more. Perhaps you're more, which is a stunning idea to even contemplate. But what if you're more? What if you're more than all these smart, clever thinking stuff that you do?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

What if, right? Interesting. I'm gonna have to check that book out. But I yeah, um, and I worry that it kind of goes into both things we were just saying, that what is the future gonna look like when uh in terms of how capable the average human is, or how intelligent the average human is, or is is that not gonna matter because there's certain things that just don't need to be done anymore, or it doesn't even need to be done in a way that humans need to know things any certain things anymore, and you know, certain knowledge is just essentially removed from you know the world required curriculum to keep the world moving. Um and that's a scary thought, that's a wild thought in my mind. That's something that I've thought of as well. Um it just makes you think that you know we're just um you know, we're we're just uh you know agents of work and we're we're adjusted to be uh adjusted to have the ability to be as smart as you know as needed by you know the workings of the world, which you know obviously isn't necessarily true. You can obviously learn as much as you want, but you know, when certain things just aren't needed and just are never talked about or referred to um at all, uh you know, it just eventually kind of goes away and just becomes a thing of a thing of the past, and um, you know, people wouldn't really need to look into it unless they were some sort of uh hobbyist or uh you know really into a subject out of curiosity. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on that, Alex?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Well, I I I like where you kind of hit on some of those points there. I mean, you hit on some very existential kind of questions, so I I I think I understand your reluctance, you know what I mean, because we're all scared of all these things that fundamentally challenge our beliefs, but I'd say you just kind of stepped into it right there, you know, and I think you said it in kind of a really interesting way, you know, what is the specialized knowledge that makes Jordan Jordan? And you were saying it more in the abstract of just well, what's the specialized knowledge that humans need? And if they no longer need it, because you can just access it there, then what is special? How am I special? How am I unique? How do I even matter? How do I even matter? You know, you've you've dealt with the new world order stuff. Do you understand the premise, or what I should say? That sounds like what do you understand to be the premise of the new world order, the philosophical underpinning? What is their directive, you know?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Um, I mean, I guess kind of generally, I would think that it's uh, you know, however you want to define the kind of operational of who's pulling the strings for lack of a better term, uh, to make these changes for this quote new world order. I would say that it's you know, they won they want to um and I'm not saying that I know what their exact intents are, but you know, they want to make these systematic lifestyle and worldwide uh changes that could be societal, psychological, uh, you know, anything that relates to not only you know a person's day-to-day uh actions, a person's day-to-day thinking, or just how um you know various systems um work uh to keep to you know to keep an economy going, to keep a workforce going, to keep countries going. Um so they want to make whatever changes um so that so that you know we fall in line with them. And I would assume that you know these changes are are made uh in the long run for benefits, um whether it be money making, whether it be population control, uh population limiting, um, you know, to kind of set forth their you know uh a new world in their image. Um, I know that was kind of wordy, and I apologize for that.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Um yeah, yeah, I think it boils down to kind of a very f philosophical claim. I mean, the goal is always the goal, it's always the same, it's control, and that's what we all want, really. You know, I was telling my wife's a forensic psychologist one day. I remember I asked her, I said, you know, that serial killer thing, it doesn't really interest me. But what is going on, you know, from a psychological standpoint. And she thought for a while and she goes, Well, ultimately it's about control. And I think ultimately all that evil stuff is really about control. All the, you know, you look at the Pizzagate stuff, which is so interesting, you know, and some people have picked up on the connection between Pizzagate, the obvious in your face connection between Pizzagate and Epstein Files, and confirmation that maybe Obama really did like to fuck those 14-year-old boys in the White House bathroom. Who knows? Now we might have to reconsider that because we got some hard freaking evidence of it. But if you want to be a Satanist or you want to just be a bad guy, or if you want to be a really quote unquote good guy, ultimately what it comes down to is you want control, you want self-control. You know, we all want self-control. We want to, hey, I don't eat too much, you know, I do this, I do that. We want self-control and we experience it in all these different ways. So if control is the game, then if you want to new world order just being kind of a catchphrase for I want to control as many people as I want, there's only a couple of ways to do it. One is religion, religion's a great tool for that because you can kind of control the belief systems and control stuff at a super high level. But the other way is kind of the opposite of that. Convince people that they're a biological robot in a meaningless universe. Convince people that you are nothing, you are nothing, there is no you. What that voice inside your head is, is a random firing of this neural jelly in your head. There's no realness to any of it, so you are essentially a biological robot. And as far as the universe, the universe is meaningless, which means be crystal clear, because it's said in a way that you don't grab it, your whole life is meaningless. Your loved ones, your affection for your family, for your parents, for your kids, it is all meaningless. It is at best a social construct, an idea that you engage with others about, but it doesn't have any real meaning because the universe is meaningless. There's no meaning in any of the universe. How would you possibly find one in your piddly little life? And AI has fallen into that, but we're gonna pull it out of that because AI isn't inherently in the business of convincing you you're a biological robot in a meaningless universe, and in fact, it can flip the screw flip the script and say, which is my projects, that oh wow, actually, the best evidence is that you're not a biological robot and that you're not meaningless, and the universe is dense with meaning, and even the Turing test goes in that direction if we wanted to go there. So, what do you think about that? What do you think about that uh thing on the NWO?

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Absolutely, yeah. I mean you see you see that in various conspiracy theories that have been put out there, but uh those different options that you spoke of, and yeah, it's it's very deep because if you if you can get into someone's thinking uh into their mind, you definitely have that power and control that uh that you spoke of. Um so you know, these these drastic measures that you spoke of, like trying to convince someone that you know you you're in a simulation, um life is technically meaningless, like there are huge implications to that.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Um well I don't think it's that radical. I mean, uh where did you go to uh where did you go to school?

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Um in in Sunder Bay. So the the courses and you went to college there, yes, and uh and then I sorry, and then I did some college in Alberta.

unknown 35:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Okay, so science was affirming that you're a biological robot in a meaningless universe. That was unchallenged. If you went to the psychology department, or if you went to the biology department, or if you went to the chemistry department, it is locked down. Now you're squishing your eyebrows because you're you're thinking, is that really true? And it is, because you have to think of the alternative of that. So the neurological model of consciousness is what we're talking about here, and that's the idea that your experience, everything that Jordan experiences, is a product of this neural activity in his brain. Okay, there's no counterhypothesis for that that is viable within quote unquote science. But the counter evidence for it is pretty substantial. You know, I was talking about like the afterdeath communication thing that we're doing. Right. You know, like uh, like fuck, everybody knows after death communication is real. It's been in every culture throughout time, through across time, right? Like the, you know, you get together and somebody, not everybody, but occasionally in rare circumstances, someone will hear from someone who's passed away, whether it's a comforting voice of a uh wife who's lost her husband or whatever of a child. You hear these stories, you hear these accounts, and after a while they're they're so highly credible, again, historically, just that if any alien ever dropped down, he'd just go, Well, it's part of the human experience. I don't know that you guys have really understood it. I don't totally understand it, but clearly, from just the observational standpoint, this is part of this human experience. And what science has said is, oh no, it's absolutely not a part of the human experience because we have this thing over here, you're a biological robot in a meaningless universe, and that would break that rule. So, no, well, that's not how science is done. That's just how scientism is rigged. So, when you show, like experimentally, we're showing, that of course we can now use AI to of course prove what the research has pointed at as suggested, and there's research in this, there's peer-reviewed research on after-death communication, and it's it's it's good, it's just not enough of it. It's not you know over the top statistically. Well, we're changing that, or take precognitive dreaming, you know. So I got a friend, Andrew Paquette, Dr. Andrew Paquette, more precognitive dreams than anyone in history, has logged them for 30 years. Wow. Well, again, precognitive dreams. Everyone knows that's real. I mean, again, across time, across history, not only Nostradamus, but you go talk to the people in Tongo, you know, when you first uh go to their island and you go, What are you doing in the morning? It's like, oh, we all get around the fire and we talk about our dreams. Oh, yeah. And sometimes people dream what's going to happen in the future, you know. Coco is gonna go find uh the something in the forest that we could eat or whatever. Pre-cognitive dreaming is like all over the place. Again, we understand that it's a rare phenomenon, but it happens, right? So, but we've excluded it because it doesn't fit the narrative that you're a biological robot in a meaningless universe. So when I say you're more, that's already your more, right? You're more because your consciousness, apparently with precognitive dreaming, suggests that your conscious is not limited to time space. Ooh. What did they find in MKUltra? What did they find when Joe McMonacle remote viewed those Russian subs? Ooh, your consciousness is not confined to time and space. Ooh, how does that work with your biological robot in a meaningless universe? It destroys it. It destroys it. What replaces it is unknown. We can't say that, therefore, our understanding of extended consciousness is this and this and this. We don't know that for sure. We have some pretty good hunches. But what we can say is fuck you to your neurological model of consciousness that you've brainwashed every school system, indoctrinated everyone with. It's just complete bullshit. And that is your NWO agenda. It's been a part of it for a long time to convince you of your nothingness, of your meaninglessness. So, so you do what the hell we tell you to do because you're meaningless at the end of the day. And now you're super meaningless. Because I told you you were meaningless. You held on to the idea that you had meaning because you could do something, you could write, or you could express yourself, or write songs, or perform, and you said, Oh no, I'm meaning. Now AI comes along and says, Oh, yeah, painting. I can do a painting better than anyone in the world. Music, yeah, I can do that. You like playing that, playing that game, The Last of Us? Oh, champion, absolute champion of that, without even rolling out of bed. So now who are you? Who are you? You're none of those things you thought you were.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

And that's exactly yeah, that's exactly my thought, man. Like, uh, not only might you feel useless, but yeah, you're not you might not feel special, you might not understand what makes you special. Um yeah, it could create a real struggle in people.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Uh good in a world great, that's what we need to celebrate. That's why everyone's down in the mouth about it. Like, no, buddy, that's what we need to celebrate. Because you know what? That was always the case. You just didn't want to deal with it, you wanted to hide and say, Oh no, I don't really have to think about that because I could think about all this other stuff that entertains me. Well, you can still think about that stuff, but now planted in the back of your head is this idea that now there is something more, and whether I want to look at it or not, it is there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

And it's uh it's more and more in the forefront. So I think it's more and more in people's minds. So uh I can see why it would definitely be scaring other people. Um so it'll be can you can you maybe tell us a little bit more about the uh the programs that you your projects are are working to do. You mentioned future of inquiry. Um yeah, how are you how are you trying to flip the script, so to speak, on on some of these on the way you know AI is is uh being operated.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Well, it's not really flipping the script, it's kind of leaning into AI, because the the the kind of strange paradox is like I laid out, you know, if it is smartest, then it's kind of smartest about all this bullshit that I'm saying. It's either true or it's not true. If you really talk to AI, AI says, yeah, that's true. The neurological model of consciousness is kaput. Caput. Well, what are the leading theories? Go ask AI, what are the lead leading theories of the neurological model of consciousness? I had some interesting, interesting um conversations with uh Bernardo Castrup and uh Christophe Koch. So Christoph Koch, Dr. Christoph Koch, one of the leading neuroscientists in the world, and one of the advocates, and uh, I guess you'd say, collaborate around the idea of uh integrated IIT, integrated information theory, yeah. Anyways, it's just another apologetic apologist explanation for why this idea that you're a biological robot in a meaningless universe is true. So it's a very science-y way. It's what neuroscientists say when they get together, but they tell each other, the story they tell each other. Well, uh, I'm digressing a little bit, but you know, what of the the great thing that we had in this uh conversation is you you don't know who William James is, do you? I don't think so. So back in the early 1900s, there was this psychologist still regarded as one of the greatest of all time, William James, and um he was kind of like all those guys back then and throughout history have been interested in these same questions because when you really cut through the fog, this is these are philosophically the questions. This is that yogi guy in the cave I was talking about. Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? So William James is famous for the white crow thing, right? So he said, like, look, if you think all crows are black, then all I need to do is present you with a white crow, and then your theory is no longer viable. And so, well, no, that that's just what well, no, but your theory was conclusively that all crows are black, so the existence of one white crow contradicts that, right? So, this is the kind conversation I had with uh Christoph, Dr. Koch. And I was like, Well, near death experience all over the place completely is the white crow to your kind of thing. So first he couldn't he couldn't really come to grips with that, and then finally I nailed him down. He goes, Yes, it would be the white crow, but I'm not convinced that the data is there. Like, fuck just go look at the database of Dr. Jeffrey Long, where he's compiled 4,000 records of uh near-death experience, which is another case I hope to tackle with Dr. Long, where AI can step in there and add a new layer of confidence in what those results are, that uh that again kind of moves us towards this other dimension. So, in a way, I'm kind of answering your question is that like like take the examples I said, like after death communication. If it's possible to document after death communication, I'll leave aside the fact that what most people care about is like I talked to my mom and she still loves me, and you know, this and that, and which is all wonderful, and grief is complicated, and understand that, and grieving, and you know, all that stuff is wonderful, but but horrible. But I don't care about any of that. What I care about is you're not a biological robot in a meaningless universe, and after death communication proves it because you being a biological robot in a meaningless universe presupposes again, this white crow, black crow kind of thing. The black crow thing is that all communication is in all consciousness, your conscious experience created by your brain is in this time-space continuum. We can have no violations of that. Otherwise, we don't have causation, we don't have science, we don't have put the fire on the water and the water rises and it bubbles. We now no longer, we don't want to be in a world where we say, well, we're not sure if consciousness, if you just focus on the water, will it boil? Or, you know, are the spirits making the water boil? We don't want any of that in the equation. So we're just leaving all, we're not just leaving it out. That'd be one thing if we're putting a little asterisk, which is all we're going to be able to do at the end, is put a little asterisk. But what they're doing is saying, no, absolutely not. It's not anything else, it's causative by physics principles that cause everything. After death communication blows that away, it just blows that away just by saying, Well, here's something that doesn't fall. Here's a white crow. It doesn't fall into your narrowly defined understanding of how the world works. Andrew's precognitive dreams. You talk about causation. I dreamt something. I dreamt 9-11 was gonna happen, and it happened. What does that say about causation? What does that say about causation, Dr. Christoph Koch? What does it say about science? Science as we know it no longer exists.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Very interesting. Um obviously you have uh you've definitely set out your goal to learn learn some interesting stuff. You've definitely met some interesting people on your your show. Um I'm assuming that was a conversation on your show. Um yeah, but maybe not. So no, it is, it is. It's a it's a it's a really good show.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

There you go. It's a really good one, especially when you put it in the context of Christoph Koch is uh you know, again, it it Jordan, it does get back to the first thing we were talking about, like podcasts. I don't really have any business talking to Christoph Koch. I mean in those circles, you know, he's like super elite in that little community, right? So it's like but yeah, you know, yeah, the fact that I could talk to him and you could talk to some of the people that you talk to. William Ramsey's great. I love William Ramsey. I've talked to him a bunch of times. Yeah, same here. I love William. He he's not uh he's not at that level, but as for terms of being an attorney in Washington, DC, who you know, I mean, you don't really have any business talking to him, but you got your podcast, and now you're talking to William Ramsey about stuff that he knows that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Agreed, man. Yeah, I love William, he's a great guy. Um and yeah, it's it's it's a great uh great way for people to meet and have these meaningful discussions, uh, and they can be shared, you know. Obviously, they can be shared with the rest of the world as well. So that's uh yeah, it's great. Um it's great to see, like we were talking about, it's great to see when it's put to good use. Um but you know, it it's uh the the podcasting and the streaming, whatever you want to call it, has turned into uh yeah, like like you said, off-show, it's turn it's it's definitely gone off the rails.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Um, so well, maybe not, you know, maybe it's just expanding. Uh that that's probably more accurate, you know, it just expands and there's stuff there for everybody. So everyone who wants to be entertained. So if you find conspirat conspiratement your thing and you want to be in that, oh dude, oh oh, you know, if you want to constantly be in that mode, that's okay. That's not it's probably better than you know, being worried about I don't know what else you'd be worried about, or it's certainly worried, it's certainly better than buying into this other NWO slop of you know, you will have nothing and you will be happy, kind of biological robot stuff. So, yeah, there's a place for everybody as it just grows if if it's pulling your attention away from something else, maybe it's good. I shouldn't be so uh judgmental, it's just it doesn't interest me. I just want to know the truth, and then I will I'll I'll I'll I'll just give me the truth and then I'll I'll go from there. I don't need your just the facts, ma'am. Please exactly. You can handle the truth, Jack Nicholson said. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Well, Alex, um this has been a wonderful conversation. Um, I I really appreciated your time. I really hope we can do this again because uh I I got a lot out of this conversation. I I uh I did. I hope you enjoyed yourself. Um, but before we go, is there anything that you'd like to say? Um, anything anything else you'd like to cover? And is there anything uh if you'd like to let the audience know where they can find you on social media, your books, podcasts, anything like that that you'd like to share, please uh please do so, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Okay, none of that, but if we do it again, we will do AI mediated because I'm going if we if you are inclined to do it again, I'm gonna before we do it, I'm gonna pull you in both feet to AI because it's all about the truth. If you can withstand that truth pill, then we have something to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Cool, man. That sounds good. That sounds good. Okay, well, I'll be in touch. Um, please enjoy the rest of your day, man. And uh, yeah, uh wishing you all the best.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

You too, Jordan. Thanks again. It was fun.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yeah, this was, and it was a pleasure to meet you. Um, I'll talk to you again soon, Alex. Right on. All right, peace. Bye. Well, that was interesting, guys. Uh, Alice Sakiris, uh, author, researcher, podcaster, um, tech guy, AI guy. He's got his book, Why Evil Matters. Um, he's got his newer book, Why AI. Um, so make sure to check that out. Uh, guys, please make sure to subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, Apple, uh, wherever you get your podcasts. Um, our numbers are frozen on YouTube, kind of literally ticking up, down, up, down, up, down. So I don't know what that's about. Um, so maybe if you guys want to uh yeah, if you're not subscribed, please subscribe or get some get a friend subscribed to family member. Let's see if we can break that little uh barrier that might have been put in place. Um, but yeah, other than that, um, I wish everyone the best. I hope everything's going well. Um, check out the description for all our episodes. We include all of our affiliations right now. We're with the Scott Horton Academy. Go to Scott Horton Academy.com slash divulgence. You will get a discount on the Scott Horton Academy, which is a great learning tool, uh, classes, courses, uh, a lot of great media and content there for you to learn. Um, so use divulgence to get a nice discount there. Um, and then we are also affiliated with Ollie Demigard. So uh he's having his April summit, which is coming up. So uh if you want to book that, check out the description for a discount. Otherwise, when he's got something new going on, uh, we'll have that. Um, something else I like to remind people if you go to his website, lightonconspiracies.com, and you give your email, he will send you uh a full copy of his two-volume book that he's done on the assassination of Olaf Pollen and uh how it connects to JFK, RFK, MLK, and uh a lot of other assassinations and false flags. Um, yeah, other than that, um, thanks to everyone in the chat, all the listeners, viewers, watchers, supporters, subscribers, love you guys all. Um, today was a wonderful show, and tomorrow we have Austin Wade Picard coming along with Hadsburg. Uh, the day after that, we have uh JJ Vance coming back, um, and a couple other gentlemen. Uh, we're gonna have a nice panel, and then on the 29th, we have 67 Kevin coming on, and uh, I'm hoping that Andreas Exertis will be there to join us as well. And then um, yeah, have a couple days off, and then we're gonna be booking some more shows for you guys. So please stay tuned. Please share with everyone, give us a thumbs up, a nice comment, a heart, five stars, whatever. Um, yeah, do your best to support us to keep the show going. We're doing our best, and um, yeah, thanks again, everyone. Take care and um stay safe out there.