#130: Psychedelic Past and Present: Eugenics and Empire w/ Habsburg Jawlly West

My co-host Habsburg Jawlly West has prepared a great presentation for us to learn a thing or two about psychedelics, eugenics, and elite empires. We discuss Habsburg history with psychedelics, recent Trump executive orders, Albert Hoffman and Bicycle Day, creating super soldiers, MORE Peter Thiel connections, data collection, RFK Jr. and MAHA, enhanced games, Julian and Aldous Huxley, royal society, aliens and psychedelics, ergot and ergot poisoning, Aleister Crowley, Crowley meeting Huxley in Berlin, Epstein connections (of course), the wild threads that are weaved and hidden, and much much more! Props to my boys for all his research, he drops a lot of bombs and divulges lots of great info - so please enjoy, give a thumbs up, and share!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, and welcome back to Divulgence, everybody. Today it's me and my boy Habsburg Jolly West. Habsburg, what's going on, man? How are you today?

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Doing good, man. How about you?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I'm well. I'm well, thank you. Um so yeah, man, you've been working uh you've been working your ass off on uh doing quite a bit of research and prepping up uh a bunch of information for us. Uh and yeah, today's the day. So um the floor is your my friend. Um excuse me, the floor is yours, my friend. Um we're gonna be touching on uh I mean, seems like a lot of different topics that'll stem into uh psychedelics and eugenics. Um so yeah, man. Um where would you like to start? Where does your research take us?

SPEAKER_06 0:48

Um I think you know, first and foremost, I you know, just want to like kind of give a little bit of uh you know background um for me personally, you know, as we like get into you know talking about the subject um for the benefit of anybody who is listening in case you know they think that um you know I'm like biased in a certain way or you know um I have um you know I I don't have like a personal experience or you know like things like this. Um I uh I have um you know you know decades of you know personal you know psychedelic uh experience um you know going back to 1996, I you know took uh you know my first acid trip. Um I you know uh dedicated a lot of like my uh time resources, you know, like personal uh efforts and energy to you know like the investigation of of these substances, um and uh you know have um not only had you know hundreds of of you know different you know trips on different you know um substances I've you know manufactured uh you know this is um uh you know not something I'm I'm actively engaged in. So you know I I think I don't you know I don't I think I run very little risk you know by uh you know admitting this publicly but like I have you know manufactured DMT, I have uh grown psilocybin mushrooms like on a personal and commercial you know scale. Um I have um you know traveled to uh South America to you know um you know to uh you know do uh participate in ayahuasca dietas in the um you know Amazon jungle, uh you know, the years before this became like a uh kind of like a popular uh you know thing to do. So um, you know, my uh that's our guy. Um you know, so so my my point here is is you know is is to you know to to kind of give my bona fitas and say that like you know I have uh you know quite you know quite a realm of experience before we start like talking about anything that anybody would think that I have like a you know an inherent bias or that I don't you know that I don't know like um you know from a personal you know experiential level you know about these things. I and um but uh you know it's it's something that over the years um you know like uh I have you know developed a you know a deeper understanding of you know the the the history of these things and you know like how they've been used um and you know what I think that they're being you know uh designed to use be used for you know moving into the the future. And so you know uh the the reason that we sort of like honed in on doing you know this episode was uh you know about a month ago, of course, and most people are familiar that um President Trump uh issued an executive order um about fast tracking uh you know uh FDA research on psychedelics, including psilocybin and ibogain. And um so it it occurred to me that uh you know that there was some interesting things regarding like the timing of that announcement um and that you know relate to uh you know some some like historical aspects of you know psychedelics. And um, you know, so I think that would be a good place to start. Actually, we would you want to um maybe roll the the video of that announcement? It's maybe like a yeah, maybe it's like a minute long or something like that, but that you know, uh the the um kind of like optics of that whole you know press conference with Joe Rogan is you know worth mentioning. Um of course, you know, he he's somebody that's like had a big big impact on on the the culture around psychedelics and uh um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I have a uh I have an MBC kind of I think this will get some stuff. If it's not good, I'll I'll pull up some also just let me know.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

No, you're not hallucinating.

SPEAKER_04 5:26

These experimental treatments have shown life-changing potential.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

President Trump signed an executive order on Saturday speeding up reviews of certain psychedelic drugs, easing restrictions for medical research on psilocybin or magic mushrooms, and ibogain, a natural psychoactive drug, even joking he'd be open to trying them.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Can I have some please? I'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Popular podcaster Joe Rogan says he helped push the president on the issue.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

I sent him that information. The text message came back. Sounds great. Do you want FDA approval? Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

It's a far cry from the 1970s. I didn't see that. Richard Nixon declared war.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah. See, see if see if there's in the United States.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

You want like more of his actual uh Yeah, but you know, what I was what I was especially wanting was, you know, where he's he's talking about um using it to treat like uh veterans and soldiers and stuff. I think that that's the most relevant thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

From um did you say it was like a one-minute clip? Because I have a one-minute clip here.

SPEAKER_06 6:29

I think that's yeah, I want to say I want to say it was it was about one minute, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

This one works then from signing. We're actually signing the executive order today, is uh really a moment it directs the FDA to expedite their review of certain psychedelics already designated as breakthrough therapy drugs, they're very much um being discussed. I guess that's one of the hardest things I think you're talking about, Alice, right? It's nothing. If if these turn out to be as good as people are saying, it's gonna have a tremendous impact on this country and other countries too. These treatments are currently in the advanced stages of clinical trials to ensure that they're both safe and effective for the American patients. And the nice part is we're actually doing this early, but it has been going on. Research has been going on. Hi, Bogan, because it's so important and experienced an 80 to 90 percent reduction in symptoms of depression and anxiety within one month. Can I have some, please? I'll take some. I'll take whatever it takes. I don't have time to be depressed. You know, if you stay busy enough, maybe that works too. That's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

You didn't mention the soldiers in that one.

SPEAKER_06 7:57

Okay, I mean it's yeah, I you know, I I don't know. I I um we we probably could could find it, but basically in that you know, comp press conference, like he's um basically bragging, you know, a lot a lot of what he's saying is you know that these things are so effective in treating like post-traumatic stress uh in um uh in soldiers and in veterans, and that that's like you know, um why he chose to you know um issue the executive order to fast track the you know um research uh but by the FDA into these substances is to you know for the benefit of veterans. Um and so uh you know basically that that happened on um April the 18th of this year, so a little bit more than a month ago. And um the the interesting thing about the timing of that is that April 19th and April 20th are both days that um you know relate to like you know, psychedelic, psychotropic drug um kind of um like the celebration um or like uh you know public consumption um of those of you know certain types of drugs um that also you know like correlate with um certain um you know events in in uh modern history that are also like um you know very um bloody and you know have have resulted in you know a lot of like uh mass casualties. And you know, so I think that you know something that that I have um you know speculated on is that uh these days uh April 19th and April 20th relate to these um you know ancient like Dionysian rituals, uh, you know, Dionysus being like the um you know Greek god of um like wine and drunkenness and intoxication. Um, you know, there would be uh these like springtime festivals, there were you know, like fertility festivals, um, you know, bacchanals, um, where you know the the uh communities would engage in um you know mass-scale uh communal intoxication uh you know from wine, uh alcohol, but like you know, whatever drugs were available to them. You know, a lot of these things, you know, we we don't know exactly what they were taking, but they were um you know engaging in uh like mass-scale um intoxication and then like uh you know orgiastic like sexual activity. Um these were fertility rites in the springtime, and you know, these this were like um you know attempts to you know like create communal for you know fertilization. Um, and uh the the other side of that was that there's um the the Sparagamos ritual that was kind of like the other side of the coin of the the bacchanal, which was like a sacrifice, a blood sacrifice, and it would either be like you know, uh there would be animal sacrifice or there would be human sacrifice, um, and uh there would actually you know uh typically be uh consumption of blood or of the actual flesh of the sacrifice, be it uh animal or human. Um, and so you had like this was the kind of like dichotomy uh duality of these uh Dionysian rituals, was you had the you know um ecstatic intoxication and uh you know um copulation, um, and then the like simultaneous uh you know uh spilling of blood and celebration of death is this you know death and and rebirth um you know kind of uh you know ritual that's intertwined. Why is that important? Um because you know, uh April 19th, you know, so so Trump issues the executive order April 18th, April 19th being bicycle day, bicycle day is for those who don't know, is the uh celebration of the uh discovery, uh Albert Hoffman's discovery of LSD in 1943. Um Albert Hoffman, of course, being you know a chemist at Sando's laboratories in Basel, Switzerland. Um he was you know doing research on uh ergot alkaloids. And um, you know, did in 1938 he synthesized LSD 25. It was the 25th iter iteration of you know these uh lysergimides and um you know lys lysergic acid diethalamide is the the 25th iteration of lysergic acid diethylamide, and um he discovered it in 1938 and you know didn't uh you know like didn't you know do anything with it is as the story goes until 1943. He like took it off the shelf. He had some type of like intuitive, um, I don't know, uh uh ideation of uh you know using this thing for some reason. He gets it, you know, basically the bottle off the shelf. He has some accidental, you know, contact with his skin and you know feels like uh above the threshold effects of LSD 25, prompting him a couple days later on April 19th, 1943, to um deliberately dose himself with 250 micrograms, um, which is interesting that he like you know chose like that amount because that's you know more or less like an active dose that you know would be you know, how how would he know? Who knows? Um, but the point is is that he he took he took a bicycle ride from you know Sando's laboratory to his home and you know recorded the effects, and you know, the this was like you know, where you know, like psychedelic, you know, modern psychedelic culture came from is from from that day. So, you know, the this is celebrated basically as a holiday. People all over the world, you know, imbibe LSD on uh bicycle day. This is you know, so that's the like bacchanal aspect of it, but then you know, like the Sparagamos aspect of um April 19th. I mean, you have had like all of these, you know, major, you know, uh, you know, uh many will are uh you know maintain that they these are like staged, you know, sacrificial events. Um you had the uh the the Waco uh massacre in 1993, um, you know, where the ATF you know killed uh 70-something you know branch dividians in uh Waco, Texas, um uh on April 19th, 1993, um uh April uh 19th, 1995, the Oklahoma City bombing, um and April 19th, 1775 was the shot her around the world, the the start of the American Revolutionary War. So you have these like very uh you know conspicuous um you know blood sacrifice events that you know are happening on April the 19th, which you know correlates you know with this bicycle day. So uh you know, like I think that that's you know demonstrative of this point that there you have this like duality of the you know um the Bacchanal and the the Sparagamos. The the following day is April 20th, of course, is the you know global uh celebration day of uh cannabis consumption. And um you also have the you know uh uh the the Columbine Massacre in 1999, uh you know, one of the most you know uh deadly uh you know, like you know, shooting events, bombing events, you know, whatever, you know, whatever exactly happened, you know, one of the most you know largest mass casualty events um you know in American history. Um you had uh uh it's also Adolf Hitler's birthday, April 20th, and uh the start of the the French Revolutionary War in 1792. So um, you know, again, there's this um real you know duality uh you know of the you know kind of Bacchanal Sparagamos that that relates to April 19th and April 20th. So I think that there was a very uh you know uh deliberately timed um you know release of this executive order on April 18th, ahead of these two you know ceremonial dates that I thought was was really interesting and you know couldn't be ignored. Um, you know, so I think that the that the other thing is is that you know we are um you know currently obviously like in this military conflict, uh, you know, on a global scale, um, you know, in Iran, um also in Eastern Europe, things like this, and um, you know, that uh with Trump basically talking about using you know psychedelics for um uh uh to treat veterans, which is which has been like a a big push in terms of legitimizing the the research around these chemicals um in in modern times. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Sorry, sorry to interrupt my friend. I I do have if you do want me to pull it up, I do have the clip when he's talking about um I it it it it couldn't hurt.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

I mean, you know, it's it's it's it's pretty key to some of these points.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, but uh, to dramatically accelerate access to new medical research and treatments based on psychedelic drugs. In many cases, these experimental treatments have shown life-changing potential for those suffering from severe mental illness and depression, including our cherished veterans. Our veterans are having a tremendous hard time, you know, the suicide rate, we have it down a little bit, but they are having a hard time. And I got a call from a number of people, including the great Joe Rogan. And he said, we have to do something about this. And I looked into it. I called Bobby, I called Haas, I called Marty and Jay, and it was really it was uniform support. And I said, so why would we wait three or four years to get it done? Or 10 years, frankly. Let's get it done immediately. And that's what happened. This it's probably never been anything happened so quickly. Everybody is so strongly in favor of this. It's it's for a lot of people, but it's for our military in particular. The suicide epidemic among veterans is a national tragedy. Since 9-11, we've lost over 21 times more veterans.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

That's fine. We can we can cut it off there. That's good. Okay, sorry. Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_06 20:08

I you know, the it basically the you know, the the point that that I was you know trying to make here is that 21 times more, and today we're just bringing them new hope.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

I think you're gonna see.

SPEAKER_06 20:27

But but basically, like, you know, the the thing that um you know that that strikes me about that is you know, using this um, you know, to basically say like we're going to use this to to treat uh you know soldiers for PTSD from you know like the horrors of war. Instead of saying like we're going to not be engaged in war, we're going to treat uh oh Anna, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it. Good to see you. Um instead of instead of saying we're you know we're not going to engage in war, it's you know, it's we're going to you know keep soldiers from feeling remorse, from feeling depression, from you know, their in wars. Um, you know, we're we're gonna we're gonna try to you know use these drugs to you know assuage their their guilt, their shame, their remorse, their depression, their their suicidal ideations from having like committed atrocities in war. And you know, to to be able to like um say, well, you know, this is this is uh a way to create like stronger soldiers to to you know that that don't have these kinds of like you know compunctions of you know about their activities uh you know on the battlefield. Um, or like you know, somebody gets like you know, shell and you know, we talked about uh like the first time we ever chatted that Tavistock Institute, you know, like it started as as a as a um means of treating shell shock in in World War One and you know how to like um uh you know, take veterans off the battlefield and to like treat their, you know, their condition of feeling like these, you know, um, you know, horrors, uh, you know, uh uh experiences uh you know from from you know killing and you know witnessing uh killing and things like this. So uh to me, like what uh you know the subtext here is like we're gonna make soldiers that are you know immune to um to these atrocities by giving them these drugs. You know, and uh I think that uh even when we look at you know who is you know largely behind uh you know a lot of these companies that are um you know looking to uh capitalize on these drugs and on these trials that are being you know greenlit with the FDA you have companies like uh A Type uh life sciences and Compass Pathways um these are largely funded by Peter Thiel um you know Peter Thiel of course being you know like the um you know like the you know at the you know very like top of the the hierarchy of you know the the military industrial complex you know uh private um you know uh uh intelligence gathering to you know um data collection to fuel these you know military technologies be it like Palantir be it andoril um um and and he's the one who like is is personally investing um in backing these companies and so and obviously uh you know uh Peter Thiel himself is like you know really into transhumanism um the the the guy who started a tie uh life sciences christian engel uh engermeier is a German uh entrepreneur is also a major um uh um transhumanist that he started these enhanced games right so where you know people were oh he's the one who started he's the one who started it yeah so that's supposed to be is that still supposed to be this year or is it 2008 or two oh I know I I think I think it I think it's happening I think it's happening really soon. I could be wrong about that. But yeah but so you know you you look and you see so like the people that are that are involved in um you know it in these clinical trials that that they're good that this executive order is going to be you know enabling these companies these are private you know for-profit companies and they're being backed by you know these uh transhumanists who like have deep deep deep connections with the military industrial complex you know DARP uh CIA in Q2 it was today there you go so I knew I knew it was happening right around right so so that's so that's Christian Engermeyer um okay and then and so you have like in a lot of these people that are involved in like the Maha you know I mean obviously RFK um you know has been vocal about his support for um um the psychedelics and stuff but one of his like under secretaries uh that is Callie Means who you may or may not be familiar with um but he uh he's a graduate of Stanford and Harvard his um sister Casey Means is also a you know Stanford graduate of course Peter Thiel went to Stanford you know Stanford being like one of the epicenters of uh you know Stanford Silicon Valley being one of the epicenters of you know psychedelic research and culture you know in the United States of course um but you know Callie Means um and he's been like heavily promoted by Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan all these people um and he has been for years like uh on his Twitter feed you know shilling for a tie and compass pathways like um as a investment uh um vehicle um so the these guys are you know that that are involved in in Maha and involved in you know like the uh national uh the the NIH and you know all of the uh you know like the you know federal um uh regulatory you know uh organizations are personally invested and personally like you know promoting um these drugs too. So um and and another interesting thing is as regards like you know federal agencies the FDA the FDA approved ketamine therapy for depression on the same day that Trump was inaugurated in 2025. And uh it's it's uh it's actually a um nasal spray called I think spriva something spruivato I think something like that um by by Johnson by Johnson and Johnson who of course was manufacturing the um the C19 uh jabs that uh were also um fast tracked through uh you know uh or circumventing FDA approval um by uh Trump's executive order uh six years ago for um operation work speed so to me I see I see this like you know a very definite parallel um you know between uh you know not just like the manufacturers that that are producing you know these uh these drugs the like executive orders the you know f you know circumventing you know traditional like pathways for for FDA approval things like that to you know what what we saw with the uh the C19. I don't know what we can and can't say so I I'll call it C19 is that work right sure that's fine yeah I don't I don't want to get us censored or anything. So so basically like you know that that being you know kind of like the impetus of you know what happened recently to why well you know I thought we should you know start having this conversation and you know basically you know where uh you know where where do these you know like where do these drugs come from um you know in obviously like in ancient times you know these these you know substances have been used uh you know we we discussed like the Dionysian rituals but like in uh the you know um pre-Columbian Mesoamerica you know we're talking about the Mayan cultures the Aztec cultures the Incan cultures all of them use uh you know psychedelic ceremonially but um also very conspicuously um in uh correlation with human ritual sacrifice so you know in the the Aztec culture the priest class you know they you know would consume both um uh psilocybin mushrooms as well as uh morning glory seeds um which contain lsa which is you know um lysergic acid which is you know um is what um lsd is derived from okay and uh you know these they would like engage in these like very bloody you know sacrifice rituals um and that there you know the um psychedelics these tryptamine you know compound psychedelics are a very prominent part of uh yes exactly uh Adam just pointed to something we're we're gonna get into that too um but yeah Elon Musk is a big proponent of of ketamine and um he's also a big supporter of maps um you know a financial supporter um you know pedamine is is definitely like one of these drugs that compass pathways um is really involved in promoting um and uh producing so um but uh but yeah uh basically um in mesoamerica you you also had the the Mayan cultures you know the the Mayan priest class also you know would specifically consume um psilocybin mushrooms during these like human sacrifice rituals um they also like you know um uh in in Incan civilization which is you know more like in Peru um they they uh were giving these um you know the tryptomines um DMT uh ayahuasca to um the victims of the sacrifice uh so it it there's it's not necessarily that they're priests who are performing the sacrifice like in the Mayan and Aztec cultures were consuming them but they were giving them to the the actual victims and we know this because um we have like recently discovered you know like the remains of sack sacrifice children um from you know ink and burial sites that um were you know that had uh the ayahuasca compounds uh in in in the in the bodies and um you know so so what you know what what's really interesting about that is uh you know specifically with giving it to like these the the ritual sacrifice victims is that like we are seeing a lot of um studies uh you know go um that actually precede the you know the this uh executive order and the you know FDA approval stuff um designed by like Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore um that relate uh they they're they're one of the only places the institutions that has been doing long-term trials on you know psilocybin um and specifically as relates with end of life anxiety so one of the things that they're studying um is giving mushrooms to people with like stage four cancer and you know demonstrating that it like relieves these people of end-of-life anxiety around death and um so when you talk about like um kind of like ritual sacrifice and things like this you know it gets into now we we have like state supported uh you know uh doctor assisted uh um uh uh life terminations uh suicide whatever um uh like the maid program up in Canada and um you know what's really interesting is so you have these um I have you seen uh the the the the um it's a fashion company have you seen this ad it's for um Simon's fashion it's called and it's called all is beauty and it and I don't know what this fashion company actually like has to do with like you know promoting maid but they have made this whole like commercial um and it's you know it's about like this woman at like the end of her life she's choosing to to to to do maid and they're doing like an ayahuasca ceremony on the beach but they also have this like weird um you know like uh uh blue whale thing it's like a some kind of weird sculpture in the in this video um and so so it's it's pretty obvious that they're like promoting made with like the optics of um you know like these ayahuasca ceremonies um and uh actually the the the blue whale uh is that is that something that you can pull up it the video is probably too long to show but maybe there are like some stills from it it's called it's called all is beauty it's this thing yeah um and uh basically yeah if you I mean if you just want to like run that with the the sound off you know like we we can just we can just kind of like keep that up um but but you'll see you know right here it's it's this woman and um you know it cuts to like the beach and then you know later on in this commercial she's like doing uh you know ayahuasca ceremony with her people and this this right here that it shows this blue whale well what's you know really strange about this is there is this blue whale challenge is this something that you've heard of um you know that there's like a like an internet thing where it's like oh in 50 days you like you know the people are challenged to like progressively you know commit acts of like self-harm ultimately like uh resulting in uh you know a suicide on the 50th day so you know what I guess I guess what I'm trying to you know like point to here is you know it seems to me like you know that there is a lot of like propaganda and uh you know a lot of you know work to justify using psychedelics to condition people you know towards like being comfortable with either being sacrificed or taking their own lives um you know so I think that that the you know speaks to kind of like this eugenic um agenda that um you know eugenic Malthusian agenda depopulation what have you um and you know you have like people like the you know the the Huxleys um you know who have been like historically really you know key to uh you know the Huxley family is you know key to like kind of promoting um Darwinian uh you know uh concepts um you know Malthusian concepts um you know um uh eugenic concepts and transhumanism and also you know like really being like the the the uh originators of like psychedelic culture you know with Aldous Huxley's doors of perception um but you know prior to that like brave new world in 1932 right and you know so so you know what's really interesting about that is you know um you had uh Aldous Huxley and his brother Julian Huxley obviously who was the president of the British eugenics society um he was he coined the term transhumanism uh Julian Huxley uh coined it oh wow yeah he he he literally came up with that term in 1957 something i i believe 57 um and um he he founded unesco the world wildlife found uh uh the world wildlife fund um you know he's a he's hardcore eugenesis he is a fellow of the royal society well their grandfather thomas huxley um was a fellow of the royal society and he is known as Darwin's bulldog and so he was really the you know like the person and and for those who don't know the Royal Society um is the longest running like academy of sciences in in the world um it's you know it's basically like um you know under the auspices of like the British monarchy um and uh it is like it's it's really the establishment of science when they talk about like trust the science that it's the Royal Society they are like the gatekeeper they are like the arbiter of what is like you know scientifically you know acceptable in the establishment and the it goes back the organization goes back to the 1600s and it was originally founded as the invisible college um and what's interesting about that is that you know the invisible college is a term that you know the Rosicrucians use to to describe you know their organization and of course the Royal Society was founded by a group of Rosicrucians you know Freemasons you know people that are you know involved in uh occultism alchemy um in that that's the you know uh the foundation of you know like modern sciences was you know in these like alchemical pursuits um so the the Royal Society is really like um you know spawned out of these you know um occult secret societies um and uh you had in you know the the 1800s Thomas Huxley um who you know he he was um he he founded a group called the X Club and you know this was this was nine uh of his fellows um and they basically uh you know it was like a uh supper club that met you know monthly before they would go to their meetings at the Royal Society and they essentially like conspired to take over the Royal Society um and they did they reformed the Royal Society um Thomas Huxley became the president of the Royal Society um and uh basically you know they they brought in uh and you know his philosophy was that you know science would become a substitute for for Christianity for religion um you know that that science would become you know the people's religion um and you know he was uh kind of like a a proponent of like spiritual eugenics um and uh he he he was deeply you know invested in uh like Malthusianism he preached you know sexual austerity for for the working class based on you know Malthusian theories um and he he was really like the one who brought um you know darwin's theories to to the public and championed them he was called darwin's bulldog and you know is really the reason you know why we you know have uh that as as like the prevailing model and because of you know through his kind of takeover of the Royal Society um you know that became like the you know the the model uh they gave Darwin the Copley uh award uh the Copley Medal um that's when they they started nature magazine i mean you know to to promote yeah the the Royal Society publishes nature magazine um and it you know promote like Darwinism and of course like you know uh Charles Darwin's cousin was Francis Galton who you know it invented eugenics and so they of course like the the two you know theories go largely hand in hand and you you also had um you know the aspect of like um social Darwinism being uh like eugenics and you know saying that like certain um you know groups in society certain racial groups certain you know um genetic groups of people with you know certain types of conditions were basically like a burden on you know the human race and that through um you know forced sterilization through um you know through which would be uh an example of negative eugenics uh an example of positive eugenics would be like controlled breeding which is something that like the uh you know the like the Nazis were involved in with like the labensborn facilities and stuff like this where they were like actively promoting um you know positive eugenics of like you know uh breeding between like people of you know preferred genetic stock to you know perpetuate you know the human race so um you know basically this was um you know this is this is like what the you know the Huxley family you know was was really you know deeply you know invested in promoting um through like the scientific establishment was you know um social Darwinism eugenics you know uh Darwinian evolution blah blah um Thomas Huxley you know was uh went on to become like a mentor to H. G Wells who was one of the founders of the Fabian Society um you know and uh along with a bunch of you know uh other eugenicists like George Bernard Shaw Bertrand Russell um you know the the the Fabian Society as as you you know may or may not be aware um is you know a um you know so social engineering you know group uh in in England that's you know heavily tied in with like um these uh you know uh Rhodes and Milner you know roundtable groups um you know the the Royal Institute the Royal Institute of um uh international affairs R IIA you know uh Chatham House um you know basically like the you know this social engineering you know component that is a counterpart to the Royal Society that is you know the the scientific you know um aspect of of you know these these groups so um and of course HG Wells you know wrote like the war of the worlds and all this you know propaganda about uh um the the New World Order the open conspiracy you know all these things you know but a lot of it had to do with alien invasion so you know again you know this is something that you know it I I'm I'm seeing a lot of you know crossover with the like UFO disclosure um you know alien stuff about aliens um in uh you know regards to like psychedelics you know I think that this is something that is like a uh a a feature of you know psychedelics is that you know with these um compounds they are an interface for you know certain types of you know entities like you know it's it's almost a ubiquitous um you know experience for people that that have you know like high doses of DMT of uh ayahuasca of other you know tryptomines where we the two encounter entities aliens whatever um so I think that you know now that we're having you know all of this uh UFO disclosure at the same time as you know bringing these you know psychedelics into um you know like uh you know increased like legal status um that there's there there's like a you know a crossover so getting into um you know the the Royal Society again um this is you know this is like uh you know kind of a real incubator of the of you know this the whole like LSD and ergot research and uh predating uh uh Hoffman's discovery at Sando's in uh his synthesis in 38 the discovery in 43 and I think that this is really really interesting and I think that you know that this goes uh that there's a uh a lot of evidence that this is a project that they were working on through the Royal Society long term um and that it was being disseminated through like uh um literature through pro you know propaganda through literature and um that there's some some really interesting um connections so um where you know did all of this start um Arthur Stoll was um uh a a biochemist he he is he is Swiss and he he was um uh Albert Hoffman's like mentor and and director at Sando's um he was a graduate of Ingolstadt uh of uh it's the University of of Munich now but it was Ingolstadt University which is actually where Adam Weishhop was on faculty when he um founded the Bavarian Illuminati in 1776. Interesting very very interesting yeah because they because because there are there are actually other people involved in this you know that that were um uh graduates and faculty members at Engolstadt um but basically Arthur Stoll performed the first isolation of ergot alkaloids um he you know was the first person to create ergotamine which is like you know uh necessary or uh you know in in like the most common lsd synthesis is you know uh ergotamine is your precursor ergotamine tartrate and um so he when he was doing this this um research Arthur Stolb uh you know he uh he got um through sando's they they financed uh the production on a mass scale of ergot fungus and for those who don't know ergot fungus is um it's a it's a blight on on wheat or rye so what it is is it's actually like a a fungus that that produces a mushroom fruiting body that infects wheat rye certain types of grasses but you know um basically like um you know mostly like edible grains and that's why you have um you know these uh reports going back through antiquity of like St. Anthony's fire of you know people who have consumed ergo ergotized uh you know uh grains and have had like these uh you know psychotic episodes what whatever documented um you know they they they said that you know a lot of the um like you know witchcraft trials like in Salem and stuff you know were predicated on you know uh episodes of ergotism you know of you know people like can consuming ergotized you know uh uh grains whether intentionally or unintentionally and having these effects um so so what's really interesting is is that like Sando's actually so they were involved um going back to the 1920s um in uh a region of switzerland uh called Emmental which is actually where like Swiss cheese comes from emmental um it just whatever uh but um they were they were producing ergot on a mass scale so they were like uh giving farmers they were they're subsidizing their crops and giving them you know money to in deliberately infect their their grain and rye crops with with ergot fungus oh okay and so and of course um Arthur Stoll was a fellow of the Royal Society um and at the at the at the time um sando's uh became part uh it was part of like so all of these chemical companies in in europe uh uh were like forming these cartels they called them cartels um and so there were there were like four companies in switzerland that that formed is called the Basel cartel and it was sandoz uh geige siba uh I don't know there there there are a couple more um but they joined in a uh they called it the quadripartite cartel with IG Farben which was the the German cartel um the chemical cartel um and um this is going back to 1929 um like between 1929 and 1932 this quadripartite cartel was formed between the Basel cartel in Switzerland IG Farben in in Germany and certain like British and French chemical corporations um and it was um basically like in it the quadripartite cartel was in existence until 1939 um which is you know when uh you know like uh you know but but before world war two started um you know and and these other companies these other companies in the cartel like disassociated themselves from IG Farben because of you know IG Farben was essentially like the industrial backbone of the the Nazi party okay and you know and they were they were using you know like these um you know concentration camps for you know forced labor to create their products they were using you know they were developing these nerve gas agents they were actually developing them as pesticides originally um have you have you sorry to interrupt have you just because we're talking about IG Farbin and and drugs and stuff have you ever read the book I forget the author's name but have you read the book uh Blitzed actually I haven't but I but I am aware of it and and I think that there's definitely some stuff that's in that book that highly recommend that yeah yeah yeah um do you have do you have that key show me the the cover of it I I think I know which one you're talking about anyways um yeah I'll find it yeah anyway the point point being that like Ig Farben um was involved directly with sando's and you know so you had this like cross pollination between you know like what became um you know the the the Nazis uh you know uh industrial cartel um and you know the the the um organization in Basel that was doing all of this work to develop the the ergot um you know based drugs you know of course Arthur Stoll being a member of the Royal Society and um you know uh another very like prominent biochemist was Max Perutz. Um Max Perutz you know was um you know he he uh he you know was into like crystallography and um okay all right that that's not the one I was thinking of but I but I but I had I do I am aware of this and I know this guy Norman Oler. Okay so yeah um so basically uh you know Max Perutz what's interesting about him uh you know he was a fellow of the Royal Society he was like the um you know doctoral advisor to Francis Crick um who ultimately like uh discovered the double helix you know nature of DNA while on an LSD trip in the 1950s yeah um and and so yeah well so Perutz's first cousin was a guy named Leo Perutz Leo Prutz um wrote a book in 1933 that this is an interesting one it's it's a really short novel and you know if you're interested it's it's a good it's a pretty good read. He wrote this book in 1933 um called uh Saint Peter's snow and the book is about a German noble baron um outside of Berlin who recruits chemists to uh come to his like estate uh you know in the country and um take like ergot like you know I mean it it it's not like specifically called ergot fungus in the book but you know they call it St. Peter's snow um but it's it's a you know it it's a it's a it's a wheat it's a wheat blight um and to use it to create this like yeah this book this psychotropic you know like drug this is you know fully 10 years before LSD was discovered you know uh it was five years before it was synthesized 10 years before it was discovered by Albert Hoffman and just by some crazy coincidence this guy wrote this whole book about how you know this uh German noble was using you know um scientists to develop this drug so that he could give it to his you know um people to uh you know the people that lived you know and and worked on his lands to like engender their loyalty by like brainwashing them um ultimately it had like the opposite effect and they rebelled but you know this is kind of this you know uh dual nature of what these you know psychedelics do do they you know engender loyalty and compliance or do they enjoy engender like rebellion and um you know uprising or or you know both um and so uh yeah so so Max Perutz you know Leo Perutz's uh first cousin was a fellow of the Royal Society with Arthur Stoll who was you know doing the all the ergot research at Sandoz at the same time that Leo Perutz is writing this book. So it's just like you know it it it can't it that can't be a coincidence. You know the the implicate the implication here is that you know this was something that was like circulating in the Royal Society. They were like actively working to develop these drugs you know this was you know and um they were using like propaganda to you know like put these notions into like the public consciousness at the same time you know the or the year before um uh St. Peter's snow was released uh um Brave New World was published and of course also Aldous Huxley's brother uh you know Julian Huxley was a fellow of the Royal Society their grandfather was the president of the Royal Society you know um so you know of course in Brave New World it's called Soma and you know it has you know these various properties of like keeping people you know um you know in a uh you know psychological you know prison pr prison without bars uh you know they you know they're content they're you know uh able to be you know controlled there's also a religious component like the Soma is like their religion and they engage in orgies that's this Dionysian back and now that we were talking about before at the same time the book is about eugenic engineering right and using um you know like creating like uh you know uh a hierarchy of uh human beings um you know based on like predetermined genetic outcomes you know the and um so you really have you know all of these you know subjects you know contained in in Brave New World in um uh St. Peter's snow uh coming out in 1932 and 1933 like a decade before bicycle day um you know you have the you know the familial connections between you know the the people that are writing these um you know books and the Royal Society. And so I think it you know it stands to reason and you know the Royal Society being also you know this uh you know incubator of all of the like you know genetic uh uh eugenic um you know research and and theory and theories becoming like mainstream um you know uh you know a hundred years before that so um you have um uh Arthur Stoll's son though was Werner Stoll and he was a psychiatrist and um so he and he was the first person to publish uh you know uh scientific uh literature about um LSD uh you know with Albert Hoffman and he uh actually like gives um Werner Stoll gives uh uh LSD to um um for goodness sake uh um Richard Kuhn who is a Nazi biochemist um who was he was getting uh ergotamine and LSD from Sandoz uh uh via Werner Stoll as early as 1943 like literally the year that you know uh Albert Hoffman made his discovery on bicycle day um it went directly it went directly to the Nazis um they were you know they were the first to get their hands on it um we know that um even before this that um you know uh a a um German um um psychiatrist of like very renowned uh psychiatrist who also was um a uh graduate and professor of uh at Ingolstadt University you know University of Munich Engolstadt University you know um uh like uh Arthur Stoll. I don't know if he and Arthur Stoll were there at the same time I don't doubt that they were um his name is Emil Kraplin um and he was heavy into uh eugenics and social Darwinism from a psych uh psychiatric psychological perspective and a lot of like um his um research and you know uh his his writings really influenced like Hitler and you know uh Himmler and you know the the Nazis um in developing like their you know theories on on race and eugenics that came from Emil Kraplin um and he was the first person to use uh mescaline in psychotherapy so like this is yeah so the you know this is like you know this kind of like lineage yeah using you know again like you know people using this um you know these psychedelic drugs in combination with uh you know uh psychiatry but you know also you know people that have these like very specific eugenic ideations and and leanings that are using these things now um crapelin was getting uh I believe the the mescaline from for his studies from Park Davis I I believe um because they were the first to actually extract mescaline from peyote is a a pharmaceutical company in Detroit uh in the United States and going back to 1887 they actually began um like distributing via the mail uh dried peyote buttons and I'm not sure exactly like the origin of of why they were you know um you know selling peyote through the mail but um you know they they got involved in um extracting mescaline making like the first actual like um you know like uh like specific you know mescaline concoctions uh available um and they this this company went on to you know like in the the 50s to develop pcp uh and also ketamine which is actually derived from um um pcp and park davis is currently owned by pfizer just saying um yes right um um quick question yeah uh i don't think i know the answer to this what is like what is a peyote button and how is it taken is it like a yeah so pay pay peyote is uh loafophora williamsy it's a it's a loafophora cacti cactus um it's it's native to like you know the southwestern you know deserts um in the United States and Mexico like in Texas Arizona New Mexico um like northern Mexico um and uh you know it's uh a heavy heavily like mescaline bearing cactus but there are a lot of other cacti that are mescaline bearing um that are uh trichosarous uh is is the the uh genus um so those are like your san pedro cacti right yeah um so you can you can extract mescaline um pure mescline from peyote you can also extract it from the trichos uh trichoseris from san pedro um and basically um you had um uh uh so okay all right so that this is really interesting too uh did did i did that kind of answer the question does that make sense yeah for sure yeah oh sorry yes um but uh how do you uh I don't think you answered uh the second part how is it um taken is it ingested like is it yeah is it processed into some a pill or like a powder or a um so so traditionally um like in native cultures you know they like you actually eat the the buttons um although it can also be prepared into like a decoction it can be like uh you know turned into like a a excuse me like a liquid preparation um and so what do you mean by a button is that like something that grows off so that so so the so the cactus is like a round little like stumpy cactus like this and when you when it dries up it you know results in like a little disc like a little flat disc is what the actual you know cactus reduces to when it's dry and and so it's a button um and that's that's that's what you refer to as a you know a a peyote button um so um alistair crowley um in uh 1907 actually got mescaline directly from park davis and so this is you know alistair crowley is doing um you know all these you know rituals um you know of course he's also you know involved in um you know like weird things um that you know really relate to like eugenic engineering you know doing these like you know writing about doing these like moon child rituals um you know basically that you know that there are like you know spirits that influence our um you know like evolution on a genetic basis um uh you know as regards to like uh you know creating a race of super beings so they're like aliens you know and there's you know these uh aliens or spirits uh are you know fulfilling these um you know like eugenic aspirations uh to create like human superbeings like this is what Alistair Crowley was into of course and you know he was channeling um you know all of these entities things like Iwas Karanzen Lamb who you know the you know famously you know looks just like our you know depictions of gray aliens so again you know we're we're talking about this like convergence of you know these like you know psychedelic drugs rituals and aliens um so uh Crowley was in um Berlin in the 30s he spent like years in Berlin uh he was you know absolutely like in personal contact with uh Hitler and Himmler and a lot of the you know like the higher ups in the the Nazi party um you know we don't you know we can only speculate on what he was advising them on but Aldous Huxley actually had a like personal meeting with um uh Alistair Crowley in Berlin in 1930 uh like a year before yeah a year before he published Brave or he wrote Brave New World two years before it was published so you know what you know we can only speculate but you know what was um you know Crowley telling you know Huxley about mescaline you know I mean uh allegedly you know Huxley didn't try mescaline personally until years later when he wrote Doors of Perception but um you know what what did he know you know like had he you know uh consumed the you know mescline had he consumed you know ergot uh you know uh preparations I mean you know who knows he he wrote Brave New World like I said you know it it's just so like on the nose with with so many of these other things um his affiliations to the Royal Society and connections that you know that would connect him to Arthur Stoll and Sandoz um uh Alistair Crowley and Park Davis like um you know it's it's really you know crazy um so then you know as regards like mescaline um you know we know for a fact too um and you know to you know who knows to what degree like Crowley actually was involved with this but that they were using you know mescaline specifically um you know in experiments um on um on prisoners in Dachau and um Auschwitz uh Kurt Plotner was um you know running these experiments um he in at Dachau and he was uh uh an SS officer who was initiated by uh Heinrich Himmler um and he actually you know um was affiliated with Leipzig University which is where uh um Emil Kraeplin you know again um the the first person to administer mescaline you know you know uh for for psychotherapy um you know that that that was his alma mater also so you know there there seemed to be these like institutional connections you know between these guys and and using this stuff of course like um you know in Dachau and and Auschwitz and they were you know specifically using these to you know to torture people to use them like as truth serums as mind control you know uh you know conduits for mind control things like this um to uh you know you know like legitimate you know uh you know torture um implements but we know we know that um you know there was uh let's see you know now we're kind of getting into probably a lot of stuff that's like covered in that um blitzed book I'm guessing you know if if any of this sounds familiar um but uh you have you know you have like um you know um uh General Charles Lukes um you know he he goes over to Switzerland um he m meets with Richard Kuhn um who is the the um you know the Nazi biochemist um who is uh chemical warfare specialist for Ig Farbin he meets with him and Werner Stoll um Arthur Stoll's son in Switzerland in 1948 and gets LSD and brings and brings it back to the United States and like that's you know it starts with like um this project charter but you know eventually it like morphs into Project Artichoke and MKUltra and so you know now we're getting into you know um after the war of course um and you had uh you know you also had um so for for example Alan Dulles um who was you know he and um his brother John foster Dulles were um you know partners at some uh Sullivan and Cromwell uh a a law firm who um actually you know worked um on behalf of IG Farben was one of their clients and um then you know Alan Dulles was um actually operating you know for the OSS in Switzerland um you know at the same time that Sandoz was was you know doing all of this work on LSD um and you know with uh actually like in partnership with IG Farbin um you know so obviously like when Alan Dulles becomes head of the CIA in the 50s you know he's integral in you know bringing a lot of these you know um drugs into the you know mK ultra projects and to like implementing them um you know and of course we're talking about um you know a widespread program i i don't I I don't think I have to like explain what MKUltra is um you know I think most people watching this are familiar to to some degree right um but you know we're you know we're talking about like a a broad range of you know mind control um experiments that not limited to psychedelics but like heavily involved psychedelics and um you know one of um you know one of one of the um you know one of eventually they actually got cut the CIA got cut off by um uh sando's they said you know you're buying too much of this uh you know they they were trying to uh essentially buy like their entire supply and they said you know we we don't feel comfortable sending so uh selling all of this to you um and eventually they um contracted with Eli Lilly um who you know to produce um oh thanks Adam appreciate you bro um they contracted with Eli Lilly uh you know it was a major uh pharmaceutical you know company in Indianapolis to begin producing LSD domestically for the CIA um and it was actually uh uh Ed Cornfield uh was the the head chemist on this project and um Eli Lilly actually published uh the formula for LSD uh and that is how Awsley Stanley got the like the formula um at Berkeley it was you know it was it was like available to him at the University of California. What's interesting is uh Ed Cornfield his um he he mentored David Nichols um David Nichols is like big um uh you know in like the modern you know psyched as a as a chemist in the modern you know psychedelic scene he's um you know big uh you know uh a fellow of the Hefter Institute which is um actually based in Santa Fe really close to Santa Fe Institute Zoro Ranch um uh you know like a uh you know a lot uh hefter is is named for for the person who discovered mescaline he was he was another German scientist back in the 1800s but um anyways yeah David Nichols um he's synthesized mdma for like for maps for their clinical studies um dmt for Rick Strassman's um you know spirit molecule studies and the spirit molecule studies are interesting uh I mean that he he they weren't called spirit molecule studies but they were you know it was re research on DMT um that Rick Strassman performed in the 1980s and they were the first like sanctioned government sanctioned um uh uh psychedelic studies since like the 1950s 60s something like that um and this was in the 1980s uh uh at University of New Mexico and um it was actually underwritten like he was funded to do his DMT research by the Scottish right uh foundation for uh like schizophrenic studies so this is this is really weird like why would you know the the Freemasons be funding Rick Strassman's DMT research uh you know that's this you know these are these are questions that that we want to ask you know it's it's it's really wild stuff but um you know like as regards mdma you know um you know mdma was created in in 1912 um in germany of course uh you know uh uh at Merck you know Merck being like a you know a pharmaceutical chemical company that goes back to like the 1600s it's you know the you know one of the oldest uh or the oldest pharmaceutical company in the world um and um they obviously weren't part of the the IG Farbin cartel but definitely were involved with you know the the Nazi Party in a you know direct way um they're uh you know one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world still um and they published their you know um formula for mdma and it was um synthesized in you know um the 60s uh by alexander shulgin and that's like when it became popularized so you know let's let's kind of like talk about him because it you know uh I I think we touched on him in the first episode that you and I did last fall you know when we were talking about the Grateful Dead and Tavistock and stuff but um Alexander Shulgin and and sorry it's it's it's you know it there's a lot of jumping around in this but it they all all these people relate and and it's all you know pretty integrated. But um and and sorry I I I definitely uh you mentioned our first episode together uh I forget the number but uh highly recommend people go and check that out because you you did a really good job in there and you dropped a lot of good stuff and uh yeah a lot of it connects relates to this yeah and and and so that's why that's why it's cool to be able to like do do this now and you know kind of um expand on it. Um and so so basically you know um Alexander Shulgin is in many ways like the key figure when it comes to like you know psychedelic drugs and you know research um and like the actual like promulgation of these drugs and like the invention of them because uh he has invented almost all of the psychedelic drugs that exist you know with the exception of you know things like you know mescaline LSD MDMA you know things things that either like existed you know prior to the 1950s um or um you know things that are like compounds that are found immediately in nature i mean he invented literally you know every tryptamine every phenylethylamine that you know pretty much exists right and um he yeah uh and he has published the books you know uh p cal and t cow which are phenolethylamines I have known and loved and tryptamines I have known and loved so you know those are the two basic categories of psychedelic drugs um you know the phenolethylamines being you know um kind of the the class of drugs that would include um mdma and mescline and mda things that are you know similar to more similar to like amphetamine you know kind of like compounds um and tryptamine and so that also includes like he created like all the 2C compounds so you know two c i two c b you know all of these things um you know there's there's a big series of them he created all of them um and uh the tryptamines are gonna be like um lysergic acid you know like lsd but like lsa any any of those compounds psilocybin psilicin uh dimethyltryptamine dmt uh 5Meo dmt you know uh any of those things right um so so those are those are all like um you know tryptamines and phenolethylamines so those are those are like your two you know basic categories everything you know that that pretty much is like a uh what would be categorized as a psychedelic falls into one of those categories and um you know like I said he you know he published these these books it's something that you can actually buy if you wanted to um actually like produce any of these things like you know and and Alexander Shulgin had a DEA license for years and he's been a consultant to the he's he he died in 2014 but he's been a you know consultant directly to the DEA on like every matter relating to psychedelics you know for decades um and uh he actually got his DEA license revoked in I think 1993 or 1994 um because uh they you know at all of these like illicit drug laboratories they found his books and they were like all right dude it's you know it's a bad look for us no I mean like every every single bust everybody was using you know like P Cal and T cal as like a cookbook and you know like I think that's the intent. Yeah well you know and and Alexander Shulgan of course like we talked about before you know this guy is like a member you know for like four decades a member of the Bohemian club and going to the Bohemian Grove and like you know what are they doing out there like oh gee you know who knows um you know maybe maybe some some weird you know rituals with uh um yeah with with these things and you know burning effigies and you know you know baby sacrifice you know blah blah blah you know we we we know about this stuff um but so but but shulgin it's it's very very interesting um you know like his origins are with the Dow Chemical Company he went to Harvard so you know and of course like Harvard is you know where um you know a lot of uh you know a lot of these people you know Rick Doblin who founded maps uh um he uh Leonard Picard who was like maybe the most prolific acid chemist um you know uh in history um uh up through like the year 2000 when he got busted um he um uh they both went to the Kennedy School of Government. Rick Doblin and Leonard Picard both went to the Kennedy School of Government uh at Harvard. Um of course they both were like very very close with Sasha Shulgin and you know would go to these like Friday night dinners that the Shulgans would host at their property in uh Lafayette California like outside of Berkeley um in the East Bay uh every Friday night and you know all kinds of you know people would go to these including Buzz Aldrin which I think you know I can't remember if we talked about this or not um on a show but I think we've talked about it privately like why in the heck was Buzz Aldrin the 33rd degree you know Scottish right Freemason you know astronaut second you know man to allegedly walk on the moon going and hanging out at Sasha Shulgin's farm every Friday night with uh Rick Doblin and Leonard Picard and all these you know people um including John Weir Perry um you know another guy that that you know I'll try to try to get into before we run out of time I know this is you know maybe going a little bit long but um man take your time do what you gotta do buddy I'm I'm trying I'm trying um so uh Sasha Shulgan started out his career after Harvard um in the 50s with Dow Chemical um you know Dow being like you know it was uh formerly like a totally private family owned company it has now um merged with DuPont which is you know another uh yeah it exactly the Adam Adam Adam nailed it with Picard we should do a uh an episode about that it is totally crazy that whole story Picard and Todd Gordon Skinner and um it was it was actually Todd Gordon Skinner's um girlfriend this crystal whatever her name is that made the neural soup videos that that snitched on them but um it's it's a crazy crazy story and actually what what's really interesting too is before before they were manufacturing the acid in um Kansas in the missile silo they hew he had labs like in Mountain View like literally next door to uh like Google's headquarters campus like in Mountain View California that's where he was cooking the acid um yeah literally like right next to alpha it's you know called alphabet right um and and also the the um also the NASA Ames Research Center which is like one of the the biggest NASA facilities is right next to Google is right next to where Leonard Picard was cooking all the acid like it's you know why not right why not it it it's over the top um but yeah so um so so you had um uh shulgin was working for Dow and you know uh it was a family company um the Dow family itself actually you know and I think that I mentioned this at some point but you know they are the biggest funders of the Interlochin Academy which is where um Jeffrey Epstein actually you know it's a it's a music performance academy for for kids in the summer who are like precocious musicians um and they you know get these like scholarships and and you know spend the whole summer there Jeffrey Epstein was a an Interlochen student um in the 60s and he actually became one of you know their like big benefactors and he had his own like cabin um at Interlochen that he that he had you know donated all this money for um and that was like as as you know the record goes according to to Gisley Maxwell um that's where he and uh Epstein and Maxwell recruited their first victim was at Interlochen in 1993. So the Dow family who owned Dow Chemical um actually was you know like they're the biggest benefactor of Interlochen. So that's that's another interesting point. They've they've their name is on like every building there they've given all the money um millions and millions and millions of dollars over the years. And the Dow the the Dow Chemical company was actually involved in like a like a cartel of sorts with IG Farben you know pre-World War II where they they were actually doing like it was a price fixing scheme um between uh Dow Chemical um Alcoa who is like a you know a a metals company um they're involved in mining and refining um gigantic um and um and IG Farbin and what they were doing was you know they that um Dow Chemical had invented a process to get magnesium out of seawater and so they were able to be producing all of this magnesium uh you know um in a novel way for like very cheap and they they set the price for Igfarbin to be using for you know to produce you know goods and and weapons and equipment for uh the Nazis at like a significantly lower rate than what they were selling it for in the United States. Like they were undercutting their price here they had a contract you know like um you know a monopoly with with Ig Farben they had a monopoly on on on magnesium and they they they had this deal with um IG Farben where they were selling it to them way below what they were selling it in the United States and Britain for you know like it it's it was it was a it was a pretty big deal they got they got in they got in big trouble for that um and actually like this all came up like at the Nuremberg trials and all this stuff and um yeah and of course you know um you had uh uh Otto Ambrose was you know the most prominent um chemist at uh um at IG Farb and he was involved in um developing the sarin gas tabin uh Zyclon B uh you know all of these things that you know were these you know deadly nerve agents that you know that they were able to you know kill a lot of people with and um they were developed originally as insecticides uh as pesticides right and they what they discovered was that these things are not only like so effective as insecticides at such low doses that like they that they're really like in they're they're really like you know too powerful to be used on insects because you know they were they're so deadly um but they were really good for killing larger organisms like humans. So anyways um Otto Ambrose he did get convicted at Nuremberg and you know was served like eight years for you know these insane crimes against humanity um you know so but he was he was out of um you know jail like in the early 50s uh or uh you know in in the in the yeah in the early 50s and he came over to uh the United States on uh Dow's dime he became like a long term consultant for Dow Chemical and well who was working for Dow Chemical at that time Alexander Shulgin. It's a really interesting coincidence because what did Alexander Shulgin make at Dow that became like you know his signature product it was a an insecticide pesticide called Zactrin. Um and it was so successful. You know, and and who knows, you know, I mean it's it's not like written, you know, that that's that that's what happened, but you know, uh there's you know probably a pretty good chance that he was working with Otto Ambrose, you know, um to to develop Zactrin, I think. But then, you know, what's really interesting is as soon as he you know became very successful with Dow, um, you know, for for Zactron, they said, all right, um, we're gonna give you like basically, you know, this was a a huge hit. You you made us a lot of money and now we're gonna let you do whatever you want and you know give you the money and give you the resources. And for some reason, what does Shulgin say? He's like, oh, I want to you know start making psychedelic drugs. So he the first thing he and yeah yeah you know um he goes from from the pesticides you know like you know like the the Igfarbin you know pesticides to the Igfarbin psychedelic you know it's there's there is this continuity is is what I'm saying. And um so he invents this thing called STP um which is like uh it's like an amphetamine based uh phenylethyamine um but they would like pass it off as like acid back in the 60s and so like a lot of these like acid casualties like in the Haight Ashberry um and uh like at these big festivals like you know the brown acid at Woodstock and stuff it was STP and that's what and that's what people were like freaking out on really bad and it you know was really weaponized and you know you could say like oh you know there's some plausible deniability with Shulgan like he didn't you know know how it was going to be used and that there were people like you know Ouse Stanley and you know these uh you know illicit chemists uh you know who underground chemists who were making it based off of his formulations and stuff like this but you know like I tend to think that it was it was something that that he conceived of in a very deliberate way and that you know like knew you know what the the potential you know effects were um and that this was something that like you know was heavily weaponized and um you know so so a lot of you know a lot of the like the bad trips in the the 60s were were STP that people thought that they were taking LSD and and um you know and it wasn't um so eventually um uh you know there's kind of like a little too much like publicity about this stuff for Dow and so Dow lets him go and then you know he's he's just like um making all of this stuff at his private laboratory in um Lafayette in in California um this the the the laboratories you know still exist they're still using it for research um the the the shulgin foundation it's being run by this guy named Paul Daly who is um uh you know like a like a former um uh intelligence officer for the Church of Scientology really interesting he can't I think we talked about this at one point but that you know he came up in the um Epstein files uh he he was in uh communication with Paul Krasner um you know real real creepy you know figure who is like you know prominent in these psychedelic circles too um who was a you know close friend of Epstein's and um Paul Daly was telling him that he was actually um you know being commissioned by the um Church of Scientology's intelligence office um uh to spy on him while he was you know working for Sasha Shulgin very very crazy stuff um he he he is now running the the sh the Shulgin Foundation's like research arm but um yeah like he he was working you know as Sasha Shulgin's um um um like lab assistant while he was still alive yeah for years um but also like a like a spy for Church of Scientology so weird stuff and that's and that's that's who's in charge of um you know the the the Shulgin Foundation now um you know they are obviously like really heavily involved with um with maps and um you know we should uh we should try to you know I'd like to hear more about maps okay we yeah we should get on maps and we don't have to do it today if you don't if you're not ready but we know we we gotta no we gotta get I know I know we're at like you know 90 minutes but we gotta get into it that's okay another half hour if you want it's good cool man no this is I mean it like I said this is why it took me like so long to try to get ready for this episode because I'm like man how do I even like get all this information into you know into like one thing into like a way to present it coherently and and I've already missed so much of like what's in my notes but let's talk about maps um maps was founded by a guy named Rick Doblin um we mentioned him because he is a graduate also of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University which is you know kind of like an epicenter of a lot of this stuff and uh and um he his career like he he was um he was from Dallas um he is um he in Dallas happens to be like uh when after like Shulgin went back and and synthesized MDMA um it kind of like became uh popularized uh you know and I don't know like through what exact you know channels um but in Dallas in like this club scene in Dallas in the early 80s um that's that's that's when you know like it became termed ecstasy right in these dance clubs um it was legal at the time and um you know this is you know this is like the culture around um mdma as like um you know like a party drug and you know like something that's you know like outside of the you know you know laboratory outside of uh you know clinical offices and stuff like this um it was it was in Dallas and uh Rick Doblin um you know became like a big distributor in in Dallas this is this is his background he's uh he's a drug dealer all right and um you know I I couldn't say you know precisely you know where you know that he was getting it from but we you know we we can say for a fact that like the biggest like um you know mdma trafficking networks like historically um you know are via like well they you know that are uh via like um laboratories in the Netherlands and like Israeli mafia um you know Mossad Israeli mafia whatever networks um you know distributed uh worldwide like they they have largely controlled the uh the MDMA trade um so I think it's you know probably safe to say that this is you know um you know uh Rick Doblin is part of this this network um you know CIA Mossad you know mafia whatever um I you know I think it's I think it's pretty like safe to um uh you know to to reckon that that that that that is like actually you know his his provenance um and um so they he formed uh um maps in I believe 1986 around the same time that um uh mdma was scheduled uh uh you know uh by the uh DEA by the uh yeah by the DEA um and and became illegal and um you know so so they've like obviously been the the biggest proponents for um you know legalizing uh you know psychedelics and and you know psychedelic research and stuff and and most of the you know the things that they have like um tailored their research to a lot of it is you know um for soldiers um for PTSD you know like it stands to reason like this is something that you know people are largely in support of you know it's like something that that you know people can like um in the public you can get people who are like you know otherwise adverse to you know to drugs saying like well if it's something that we can use to like help soldiers and you know you know uh veterans and stuff like this um you know it's it it it it's a good it's a good it's a good cover for for you know you know what they want to do so um you know they've been they've been doing that that kind of stuff for a long time they actually like have used kind of like going back to what we were talking about before to you know kind of like uh you know use this stuff um in a way to kind of like abate PTSD to like make people like uh inured to like the horrors of war or you know to to make like super soldiers um in uh one of the things that they you know have like done recently is a trial um in it with their Israeli branch um using MDMA um to uh uh you know like cure or treat PTSD um for 400 individual survivors of um uh october 7th um uh the um whatever you want to call it the attack um so they're they're using they're using mdma um you know to to to treat those people and um they they recently so so they spun off like a um like a commercial you know like um for so uh uh a maps is nonprofit although they have raised an insane amount of money some like you know 140 million dollars you know over the years like it a lot of money for for a nonprofit right um and a lot of it is uh you know coming from some like really serious uh you know like oligarch um you know uh politically connected people you know um the Rockefellers have given a lot of money to maps um uh Richard Rockefeller who was also who who was a doctor he is the um the son of David Rockefeller um he uh was uh a heart he was a doctor who also a graduate of Harvard um and he was um a big supporter he i think he was like a board member of maps and you know after he died like um his kids have have gotten involved with the the board at maps and they're giving tons of money um the Rockefeller Brothers Foundation is giving money to maps um Nicholas Pritzker one of the Pritzker cousins uh you know um that who was he was the um I believe Nick Pritzker was actually the CEO of Hyatt at one point um he he is one of the big supporters of maps Elon Musk um has given them a lot of money the the Mercer Family Foundation so uh you know that's like Rebecca Mercer uh the daughter of Robert Mercer who you know they were funding you know all of like the MAGA Breitbart uh Cambridge Analytica you know all of that stuff right like that you know they they are heavily funding maps so you know people that you like wouldn't necessarily think of as like these you know trippy you know psychedelic bros like no it's um you know it's these oligarch you know families um you know it's these um you know uh billionaires it's you know conservatives uh you know um lot lot of lot of really strange bedfellows in there that are putting up the money for for maps and um what's interesting is so so they spun off a for-profit division and um it's called Lycos and they uh have been doing like mdma therapy trials and um it actually they actually got rejected by the FDA in 2024 and this was I don't is this something that you heard about Jordan because it was it's actually a pretty big deal um so I'm I think so and um does sound a little familiar 2004 2024 like it just it just happened they had 2024 my mistake yeah it happened really recently they have been doing these um clinical trials for years and this was in like the phase two or phase three of the trials um and you know they were like right on the verge of getting like FDA approval for MDMA therapy that would have been actually like something that they could have then like brought to market through Lycos um and made insane amounts of money on it right and um and it was actually David Nichols the guy that we were talking about before who worked for Eli Lilly um who's a professor at Purdue University in Indiana um who was making um you know he was synthesizing the MDMA for for these trials so again you know the closed network with all these you know chemists and these these um institutions and stuff but what happened was and and they you know I I don't I don't know you know because this some of this stuff is uh classified and confidential you know the FDA records of like why you know they um why they denied them you know the the approval but um we know for a fact because you know this came out that in the the clinical trials um this there that there's some pretty serious abuse um and this was directly like related with people who um you know were um therapists that they were administering the therapy like as actual clinicians for the trials but that were like also you know pretty heavily involved in like the organization of maps from like a um you know on the nonprofit side of it right um and so it was um this this woman named Megan buyson she uh was a volunteer in the clinical trials um and she was um out in um um in bc um and doing doing clinical trials with this couple it was uh Richard Jensen and Donna Dyer they're a married couple and that they were administering the the you know mdma the uh mdma treatment protocol um you know for for the clinical trials for lycose and um basically like they were you know she sh this this is a woman who had like severe um you know physical trauma sexual trauma like you know horrible things that happened to her and they gave her uh mdma in you know the context of the this this clinical trial and she was she was like freaking out and like instead of you know providing like a normal supportive environment this this yensen guy and there are videotapes of this like you know like this is this is in in the public record he he puts her on a bed in in their house puts her on a bed and lays down on top of her and while she's like experiencing this like you know recurrence of like a you know past sexual trauma and she's like yelling at him like get off get off like get off of me and he's like no and he starts like holding her down like on a bed dude this is all on you know film that's dramatic dude oh it's it dude it is crazy and um and so you know she she was like freaking out and he's just like restraining her like literally laying on top of her touching her you know and then in like all the other um like sessions that they had he's like touching her and doing like weird stuff and um the wife is too like his wife is in on it and ultimately oh yeah no it's it's really really fucked up and um like ultimately after the trials finish um she ends up like like going to live with them at their house and being kind of like their assistant and they're like taking advantage of her sexually and you know like she she's you know she she's like under mind control of these people you know they they had used um you know these like MDMA sessions to like you know uh like re-traumatize her and you know basically turn her into like uh I don't know you know some kind of like you know program mind program kind of like sex slave and um she she basically um you know was like like living with them and in a in a um uh uh you know relationship with them she she eventually tried to like get away from them and this Dr. Jensen guy was like gaslighting her uh you know saying you know like telling her that she was like crazy and that you know he hadn't done anything wrong and all this stuff. And you know eventually uh this she got away um and broke you know broke free of them and filed uh ethics complaints against maps and like this is probably like you know what led to the um you know the the FDA like you know rejecting their um their trials for mdma therapy and this you know points to like you know the um pitfalls of this this kind of therapy is that it can be like really used to take advantage of people and not just like not just in the session but like on an ongoing basis and you know that you know people become like attached to these um therapists and uh you know that they're that they're being like mind fucked and um they are um you know being being taken advantage of like physically sexually and and monetarily too you know it's um this is this is just from like a personal note um you know because uh you know you you talk about like the uh you know abuses of these facilitators and you know like I was saying at the start you know I've I've been involved in you know uh a a lot of different aspects of you know like you know psychedelics and um you know was involved uh you know with a with a group um here like in Oregon and California um you know that were like you know part of this uh you know network that goes down to you know that is part of this Peruvian network you know with like one of the the biggest like you know most renowned ayahuasca shamans in the world um and uh but but you know has like followers here in the United States and you know people that he's trained and you know they they have uh they do like ceremonies you know all over the the West Coast and you know um these are people who you know they they've recruited a lot of like uh you know powerful people you know from what I understand like in in um in Los Angeles you know they they've had like Oprah and uh you know they've had like people like that you know in in these circles um I've you know been told that like Bill Gates you know has been in in there ceremonies stuff like this like people of like extreme means and you know and influence and the craziest thing that that I saw you know it just like in the the groups that that I had sat with and this is years and years ago you know when when I personally like experienced this it it it really wigged me out and it's you know one of the things that that really turned me off to a lot of this stuff. Um but um they were doing you know these uh it was it was like a straight up like mlm like pyramid scheme and they you know it was like right after like ceremony um they were telling people in and you know they they they really targeted the women um and they they had said okay you know we're gonna we're gonna have this like women's gifting circle and the way it works is um you know we have like the you know the all the women that are like involved in this group and if we invite you in you've got to pay us $7,000 right and we're gonna like chop it up and split it up you know between us but when you you know like bring in new people when we bring in new people you're gonna get a share of their $7,000 like literally you know like a like a pyramid Ponzi skin and um and and it was so like disturbing because you know they would present people with this like after like after ceremony you know when people were still like definitely under the effects of of the drugs and in in an ayahuasca ceremony is not just like the drugs like uh you know the facilitators most of them are these insanely talented musicians right so there it's it's a big performance you know and and there's songs and there's you know like instruments and like it is it's a big production and when you get done with the ceremony and everybody's like together and it's this you know like it's this weird bonding thing you know people feel like they're part of a group people feel you know you know highly like engaged with the group you know spiritually engaged whatever And they're they're like approaching people and being like, oh, we want to invite you into our gifting circle. And all it's gonna cost you is seven thousand dollars. Yeah, that and that's seven thousand dollars in like 2013 money. Um, so I don't know, I don't I don't know what they ask for now. It's I'm sure it's more. This this is still going on, and um they actually have like tax exempt status now. You know, it's like uh um you know, does like who does these this this organization, yeah. That's they they're like incorporated uh, you know, like as a as a church, no. And so so I'm sure that you know it's like it's big, big money. I don't I don't want to like say the name or anything like that, but you know, some people some people you know might be able to figure out who I'm talking about, but um it it's uh it's it's not UDV and it's not Santa Dime, but um anyways, it's uh it's another organization and um yeah, like big, big money. And like um, I saw people just being like, oh, thank you, you know, like being like thank you for this opportunity, and just like opening up their pocketbooks and just, you know, I mean it it was really crazy, man. And and so I think that, you know, my my point here being that you know, that's not like you know, necessarily like a physical or sexual abuse, but it's like certainly like a like an abuse of trust and uh you know means of like mind controlling people. And I, you know, I've seen it like in practice. I you know, I also saw like, you know, in the course of you know, like being involved in these groups, like, you know, definitely, you know, especially you know, vulnerable women being like you know taken advantage of too, you know, by you know, older men, uh, you know, who are like, oh, you know, I'll mentor you and I'll be your you know spiritual guide and this and that. Like, you know, I I've seen a lot of this stuff. So, you know, I think that that this is um, you know, like a like a like a big aspect of of what you see in these you know communities in these circles is like people are you know um taking advan taking advantage of other people. It's a you know it's a it's a it's a way for you know people who are like you know have their minds open in in certain ways and are you know like easy easy prey. So uh you know, uh yeah, you know, I hate I hate to put it in those terms, but like that's what I say.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:20

No, it's it's that's yeah, dude, that's the way it is. I mean, it's not a matter of you know, not wanting and putting it away that doesn't sound you know, it's just the way it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:32

And you know, to to you know, like as a kind of like a final point is you know, it's not just like you know, other people that you're opening yourself up to, but like that this this is potentially, you know, kind of going back to you know, aliens, spirits, whatever entities, like you're opening yourself up to something else that's out there, you know, and and maybe not in like lower doses, like microdosing is you know, it's different. Um, but in like higher doses of just about every single one of these, you know, um, at least you know, tryptamines for certain, um, and and mescaline, I would say as well. Maybe not, you know, so many of the other phenylethanes, but most of the powerful tryptamines, um, like you are gonna encounter some kind of like entity out there, you know, when when you like interface with high, high doses, your heroic doses and stuff like that. Like it's it's it's a feature, it's a fact. And like, you know, um I don't know what this stuff is, and I don't know like where it exists. Uh, you know, right, you know, they these are like aliens, these are whatever, dude. I mean, um, it's it it's a real thing. And you know, people are like are subject to their influence. And, you know, I mean, people like come back from these experiences and they, you know, they've had these contacts and they they are like influenced by whatever you know they've made contact with um in in these like realms. And um, I don't know, you know, like maybe they're benevolent, maybe they're not benevolent. And you know, like how does it relate with um, you know, all of this disclosure and um, you know, all of this new UFO stuff and AI and and all of these things. And we didn't even we didn't even scratch the surface of like, you know, psychedelics and Silicon Valley and you know, all of this stuff. And that's gonna that's gonna be a uh you know a whole other thing because you know, I didn't I didn't even didn't even get there. But like um yeah, the the AI and the psychedelics like are really going hand in hand and you know, like what people are you know seeing in in one realm, like you know what the you know, what they can be like influenced by, you know, in in a you know, in another realm. I mean, um, if if that makes sense, you know, like the convergence, the convergence of like their you know, psychedelic visions and you know, something that they're interfacing with, you know, in a GPT or on social media, and you know how you know, potentially like um, you know, even how like the you know they could, you know, now can use um you know devices to like pick up on like biometrics and potentially be like reading, you know, some of your you know um your data of while you're having these experiences to be able to like feed you AI, you know, stuff to to influence you later. Uh you know, these are things, these are things that I think that we you know have to be really aware of. So um that's that's that's probably a good place to wrap up if you think if you if you have any other thoughts or you know questions or anything like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:43

No, that's man, you kind of you nailed it, man. You nail, I mean, as for my question, I mean you fucking nailed it all around, but um and the chats the chat, I mean, I didn't want to interrupt, but the chat throughout, I tried to throw out some comments for you to see. Uh they're just loving it, man. Um I appreciate your your hard work on this, man. You uh I don't think I have any questions right now. Um if I do, I'll kind of jot them down and we can carry it over if we do a part two or something. That way the audience can benefit from it as well. But um, no, man. Um like you said, it's just a lot of connections. Um a lot of names and um, you know, lots of companies and um and you know, people hiding behind companies and names and brands and stuff. It's just wild, man. Um I I commend you that you're able to break that stuff down and and keep that stuff together like other uh just trying to think it's like um uh Ran William Ramsey's pretty good at that, or Ian Carroll, uh Ryan Dawson, and and yeah, it's it's a great skill to have because um it's good to it's one thing to know like the general history and background of stuff, but yeah, to be able to nail down names and and stuff like that, it's uh dates and stuff, it's really helpful.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:13

So you know, this is something that like man, you know, when you start kind of like seeing these threads that you know weave through um when when you when you start seeing these like threads that that weave through all this and all these people and all these organizations and you know things that you know are kind of like hidden and you know you can like draw your own conclusions if you know if you look at it like analytically um and you know see like, well, yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of history that that you know you know we can we can read that, but man, there's so much more that like is pretty obvious, you know, when you know when you look at it, and especially like, you know, I think you know, one of the things that that I've like kind of clocked that I've never heard anybody else talk about is like these connections with the Royal Society, uh, you know, with Sando's and with the you know the Huxley's and the Perutz family and like you know, literature and um you know the science and and these these drugs, uh, you know, before like way before uh you know LSD was officially like discovered. Um, you know, that's that's just such a crazy story. And and that, you know, that they wrote these books about it and you know that they were telling people like years before it happened. Um that's you know, that's just like uh it it's it's totally mind blowing. And you know, um, so dude, I I I really appreciate it. And just you know, I I I I did you know see, you know, the a lot of um, you know, cool you know comments and and you know communications that you share from the chat. I I didn't see the the whole chat or anything um uh in in my um view, but like man, I I really appreciate you guys following along and being engaged. And it was great to have Adam in, you know, in the chat and you know, definitely would like to, you know, maybe have Adam, you know, like get with us sometime. I know, you know, I know this is something that he's interested in. And um really appreciate uh Anna Nicole uh wordsmith, you know, for dropping in. She's awesome. You know, give her a follow shout out, Anna. Um, and um, yeah, if anybody's interested, like or has any like thoughts that they would like to share privately, you can uh like you know, feel free to contact me on my Twitter at accountable to me. You can DM me. Um, I will you know get back at you know, uh, this is stuff that I'm like really interested in. And if you know anybody has any, you know, additional perspective or information or leads, like you know, get with me. I I totally appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:52

Absolutely, man. We love uh we both love hearing. We love but yeah, we like to uh um we like the feedback and we like to kind of connect with other people and uh hear what other people have to say. I mean that's how you and me met, and that's how we hooked up and and look at where we are now. Um yeah, so that's cool. So yeah, much appreciated to the people in the audience and the uh the listeners and the people that that do reach out. Um yeah, we definitely have some very interesting ideas for some episodes for you and me to do, as well as um some that we spoke to Adam about. So um, yeah, that'll be really cool. Um let's see for the future we have uh Wednesday. I think our next show will probably be Wednesday. Uh we'll have Ethan from Ethan Indigo from the Occult Rejects coming on. Um we on June the second, we might have something booked before then, but I'm just trying to think of everything I can remember. June the second, we have uh gentlemen coming on to talk about serial killer patterns uh through archetypes. Um what else? Let's see. I think we can share it. I think it's pretty safe to say, yeah, I think it's safe to say, um, the individual who is the was the mistress uh dominatrix for Brian Gnome, uh Christy Gnome's husband. Uh she says she's willing to come on and talk about that experience, so that should be very interesting. She seems she seems very down-to-earth um and fun. So I think it yeah, it could be a fun time. Interesting time.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:53

Um when when when is that? Do you did you have to do that?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:58

I was thinking maybe I I asked her about the first or second week of June. So I I think we'll we'll shoot for some somewhere around there. And then I think on the 6th, uh I I have to connect with you first, obviously, but uh JJ's ready to come back on the sixth. He let me know.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:19

Yeah, so we can yeah, yeah, let's let's let's do yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:24

Cool. And um yeah, and then the the rejects are coming back. Uh Austin Wade Picard is uh gonna come back. He said the first week of June, so I asked him about the third, fourth, or fifth. So we'll see what he says. And uh yeah, yeah. So uh a few other few other new people and then some people I'd like to bring back. Uh Bart Sabrell says he's gonna come back um in June or July, whatever we pick. Um, so I'd like to bring Adam back, and we I'd like to do another kind of NASA space moon episode um before we before we bring him back. And um yeah, I think we'll have some cool stuff for the summer. But uh yeah, that's kind of a little bit of a snapshot of um what's coming up. So uh anything else, my friend?

SPEAKER_06 2:03:15

Oh no, I you know, I didn't I didn't mention him at all, but then I know that um me and Adam like uh off air had you know uh talked about it a little bit, but um Puff Stametz, we gotta get him on so we can we can do you know on on air, like you know, like put you know, put him on blast a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:34

Yeah, that is another one. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna uh I'd like to do that this summer to get everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:42

We yeah, we we we gotta we gotta we gotta put that dude on blast and and um yeah let's see if Adam will get with us because I you know I think I think it'll blow his mind. Yeah, yeah. For sure. That'd be cool. Yeah, so cool, dude.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:00

Thanks, man. No, man, that was that was fun. Um, you know, shoot, like I like I said, I only like I only got like through a fraction of the material. There's so much more, so we we will like revisit this, we'll we'll get it on.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:12

So that's cool, man. I think I think that's good. I think the people uh will enjoy that. Um everyone here seems to uh be down for that. So um for those here, yeah, look forward to that. And for those who listen to this after the fact, uh yeah, keep your eyes peeled for that. We'll uh we'll definitely let you know when that's coming up. But yeah, in the meantime, uh if you can do what you can uh to um help us get up to a thousand subscribers on YouTube and help us bump up our numbers on Rumble. Uh I was gonna wait to I'm gonna wait until the next show maybe to give away or to to uh no pun intended, give away the um details, but we do have a brand new iPad and a uh a case for it to give away. Uh so I think I'm gonna connect that to um just getting some people to subscribe. So uh make sure you subscribe, get some people to subscribe because it will help you in the draw. Uh, and I will I'll I'll make sure any any any subscriptions that people that have are already subscribed or any people that you get subscribed uh from now uh just keep the receipts and uh I will uh grant that uh in in the in the raffle, so to speak. Um yeah, I'll give more details on that next time. But uh yeah, we got a brand new app iPad to give away. So um yeah, stay tuned on that.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:46

And um that that's a that's a big come up for somebody.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:50

Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, fuck.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:53

I want to win.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:54

Yeah, man. There you go. Maybe you can win. No. Um, but yeah, other than that, uh also make sure to check out the Scott Horton Academy. Um, brother was on Joe Rogan the other day, so that's cool for him. Uh, go to Scott Horton Academy.com slash divulgence uh for a discount for you guys. Um, and I think that's it for now.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:17

We didn't we didn't even dish on Rogan, man. Jeez, there's a lot we didn't get.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:21

Yeah, we did it, eh? Shit, I didn't even think of that. Well, we we that is something that we do want to get into. And big time. Uh I think Adam's Adam's interested in that too. And uh because I think there's a lot to talk about there with Rogan, so that's something else we can chew on. But um, yeah, in the meantime, um, yeah, do got do what you yeah, go make sure you're subscribed, uh, rumble YouTube. If you are, um, then get someone else subscribed, and uh yeah, like I said, we'll we'll share some details about the uh um the giveaway next time. And um yeah, sending you guys uh the best. It was uh this was fun, man.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:04

So um I I wish we had uh I was gonna say we gotta get like some sound effects because I wish we had like a nice give you a nice round of applause because that was you know what I just thought of this funny, you know, we wish everybody like a happy memorial day, but like Memorial Day, we do the show where it's like you know, everything is about like PTSD and veterans, and you know, like you know if war war is bad, war is sad, give them the drugs, give them the drugs.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:32

Yeah, true to that, man. I forgot it was Memorial Day, so yeah, happy happy memorial day, everyone. And and uh I hope everyone enjoyed the enhanced games, so you know so there you go, dude.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:47

That's your that's your boy Christian Engermeyer. Buy some A-TI life sciences stock, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:54

Love it, man.

unknown 2:07:55

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:56

Well, yeah, props again, brother. So um thank you for that. Um stay tuned for a part two, and um, yeah, all the best to you guys. We'll uh we'll see you guys uh we'll see you guys on Wednesday. Peace and love.