Divulgence Podcast
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Divulgence Podcast
#136: Right Wing Media w/ Howard Polskin
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I welcome media expert and President of the Righting, Howard Polskin. We discuss the making and the genius of MAGA, journalism and news media, right wing news media (including trends and obsessions), the Iran War, Trump and the right, Trump's relationship with and behaviour towards women, being a centrist and shooting down the middle, Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein Files, conspiracy theories and going down rabbit holes, the Clintons, the 2028 mid terms, and more!
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Hey everybody, and welcome back to Divulgence. Uh today we have uh right wing media expert Howard Polskin with us today. Howard, how are you, man? Thanks so much for being here.
SPEAKER_01It's all good, Jordan.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. So, you uh I mean, uh we spoke we did speak briefly um before this, and we've we've had a little bit of back and forth over email. Uh I I know you've been in the the media game for quite a long time. Uh I know you you you run your own website called The Writing. Um, but can you just give us a little bit of uh your background and then just tell us a little bit about um starting starting the website and and um and what the website kind of deals with?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um I've been in the media business for several decades now. It's the only area in my career where I spend time. Um I've always loved writing, I've always loved media. I've um written, I got my start uh writing about TV news for uh TV Guide magazine back when it was the biggest magazine in the world. Okay, man. Yeah, that's amazing. Yes. Um and um so and and I've also worked in in media. I've I've been an executive at CNN and Sony and for the consumer magazine industry. But I'd say nine years ago I became fascinated with right-wing media after Donald Trump was elected president. Um, why did I start focusing there? Because I could not understand how America could have elected such a man. It I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I read the New York Times every day, I read Time Magazine, I read Newsweek, I read The Economists, I watch the NBC Nightly News, I watch CBS Sunday morning, I think I'm an informed individual. What did I miss? And I started going the day after Trump was elected in 2016. I started visiting a few right-wing websites like Foxnews.com, the National Reviews website, Breitbart, InfoWars, places I had never ever been to. I kind of looked down my nose at these sites, and it was an alternative universe. Uh, and it fascinated me. And I kept doing it, and I thought, why did I wish someone could put the headlines of all of these sites together every day and just push it to me in a daily email? And that's when I thought, well, maybe that's what I should be doing, and that's how I got the idea. And that kicked around for a few months because I was, you know, that was that was really felt like a big undertaking. Um, and it was real, and through the first few months of Trump 1.0, I was monitoring right-wing media, but it was only until the summer of 2017 in Charlottesville that I decided I've got a real if I'm gonna do this, I this this was it. This needs this needs to be done. And I launched in um in September of 2017. And if it wasn't for my two sisters and a few friends, I would have had no subscribers to start. So I really started I really started from nothing.
SPEAKER_00Good for you, man. That's awesome. So you've uh so based on that, I'd you are pretty close to um being uh you know a full decade of since you started it. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and and right now, yes, it'll be a year from September, it'll be 10 years, and I'm going like, um, do I hold a party? Like, what what how does you do how do I how do you're on the list? You're on the list, buddy. Um you know, how do how do I how do I do this? And what happens, and of course, the existential question, what happens if I throw myself a party and no one comes? So we'll have to wrestle with that. So I I I I have 14 months to ponder this problem. It's a good problem to have.
SPEAKER_00That's a good problem, exactly. Yeah, fair enough, man. Well, uh, props to you, man. Uh that's that's a that's a great story. Um so did the uh did the writing start off as a newsletter? Or did you did it did you make it a website, right? Oh, a newsletter, okay.
SPEAKER_01It was always conceived of as a website, because I always felt that you needed uh what I call a home base where people could learn about you. Um you drive people to that site to learn more, but it was also the gateway to subscribe to the newsletter. And ultimately, I was trying to sign up as many subscribers as possible. It's free, um, but I still wanted uh I wanted that big list, a relatively big list of subscribers. And it was pretty um, it was it was very slow going the first year, no question about it. And I just did it kind of as a journey of discovery. Um, because every every day, even it exists to this day, every day when I start my process of going through right-wing websites at 8:30 in the morning, I'm like, what am I gonna find today? What what are they gonna say? What's gonna shock me? What's gonna revolt me? What may even enlighten me? And because that's really when sometimes magical things happen that you may find that your opinion might be changed. So I like to approach this as thinking my opinions are all not completely locked in stone. Um, I can change my opinion a little bit. Doesn't happen too often, but it does happen.
SPEAKER_00Uh you you kind of just started off uh answering my my next question. It's I was gonna ask you what is the general process from you know, it sounds like that you you just kind of start your day off, you wake up, do your morning rituals, and you kind of start your day off with scouring the new posts and news articles. Uh what do you do then? Because I and before answering, I'll also say um I understand that is that is a very sometimes grueling task. Um sometimes the articles are very interesting and stuff, and you're you're willing to go through it, but I used to and and I've been starting doing it again. Um I used to go to like a a new I I forget what you call it, but um like a news conglomerate site where the aggregator, thank you so much. And um I found one that I thought I really liked, and uh, anyways, I would go through those and and just post some of the headlines and dates uh into uh a notepad just so I can keep keep timelines and talking points and stuff. And it man, it's a lot of work. Um especially if you want to do it to a qu to an extent of quality, which it seems like you're doing, it's a lot of work. Um so so hey man, that that's that's a lot. So so here's my secret. Here's my secret. Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01I'd love secret. All right, no one. So first of all, I start at 8 30 in the morning after I've had a cup and a cup and a half of coffee, a third of a bagel, a little bit of granola and skim milk. Now I'm like, I'm ready. Okay, sit down. I have a list in front of me of maybe 90 right wing websites in alphabetical order. Okay, but the key is some of them, a good deal of them, don't have good headlines or good stories. They're just rewriting stuff that other right wing sites have. So I'm not really that much interested in those sites. Um, but some of them um are almost always have great stories, colorful, shocking, analytical points of view that may make you want to puke, but that's what you're looking for. You want something then that's gonna provoke an emotional reaction from your reader, but not so much of a reaction that they're gonna unsubscribe, because you don't want that either. Sometimes I've had stuff in there that's been too vile, and I can see like 10 people will unsubscribe, and that's not what you want to do. But you you what you what you're ultimately looking for is something that's gonna reveal what the right is thinking. Um, so usually it that telescopes down to about 35 websites that I go to on a on a regular basis, looking for those headlines. And usually you can I try and clump clump them together thematically. So, for instance, this past week you might pick three or four stories um insulting Obama's presidential center. So that's so that so that's a good one. Um certainly on Iran um would be good. Anything on Iran defending Trump's policies in Iran, um uh anything pointing to the um so-called vandals of the uh the reflecting pool. So so right then and there you've got you you've you've you've got a good 10 articles and you all clump together, and then you have some random ones at the end. So that's pretty much how I how I put that together. And you could see you know when you when you start to do this, you realize what you're looking for sometimes even before you open up some of these sites.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you try to um do you try to appease? I mean, it's kind of hard, obviously, to appease both sides of the aisle. Um, but do you try to do so or do you when you when you say that you don't want to um upset subscribers, uh are you speaking mostly to one side of the aisle?
SPEAKER_01It's not that I don't I don't care about upsetting them. I just don't, you know, as you the the the audience is precious in this business. Absolutely so when when someone tunes you out, when someone unsubscribes, it's adios, they're they're not coming back. And you know, they have so many so many things to to um that will capture their attention. So I don't want I I want to provoke a response, but I don't want to um provoke them to hit the exit ramp. Um, so that's generally what I'm what I'm looking for. And if you know if the headlines are too bland, they're not gonna come back either. So you so you have to try and strike a balance. The other thing that I that that bears worth mentioning, Jordan, is so the first year and a half that I was doing this, I just sent out the headlines. Um and that was it. And then I thought, like, why don't I put a commentary at the top and let my voice come out? Because I was hiding by, you know, you really didn't know it was Howard Polskin behind it. You could, if you went into the about section of the site, and partly that was driven by um a fear, I didn't want to be attacked, I didn't know what forces on the right might, you know, could be crazy people out there. So I was being, I was being cautious. It was also um, well, what am I saying? How do how do I say this? Um, do I have the time for this? And I realized that I came up with a format for my introduction every day. Um, I'd write 250 to 300 words, and I'd write it in a format that was a little bit kind of off the top of my head, and I would just do two or three sentences on something, and then dot, dot, dot, two or three sentences, link to something, dot, dot, dot. And it would be, and I could inject humor in there because a lot of these sites that I'm on, for instance, you'd go on a site and you'd see advertised on a site like Daily Caller, it might be like Donald Trump cologne. And I would like, what? What is that? And it would sell for like $2.99. So that's not a news story, and you know, so I might write an item that goes, smells fishy, okay, you know, colon, you know, if if you're in the mood for it, Trump cologne, like I don't know. So, and then a link to that. And people like that, it got a good response and it was light, and was also a way to inject a certain kind of levity into it and kind of a little bit making fun of stuff. And when whenever Trump would do stuff that would be um, I'd uh yeah, I'd point out a lot of stuff that Trump was posting on True Social. For instance, he would post pictures of Bruce Springsteen that were um obviously created by AI as a toothless, bald old man with a grizzled beard. And you know, and then Trump would write something like has been. And so I'd link to it. I'd I'd always call something like that Department of Sticks and Stones. And then I would say, look at what Trump posted about Springsteen, and then I'd add, keep it classy, Donnie, keep it classy. You know, that would be an item. So the audience liked that, and they were they they were my audience was into it, and that's what I do every night. And that that actually is a is one of the more challenging parts of it, of what I'm doing, um, rather than just the aggregation, because it you got to come up with the words, you got to come up with what you're looking for. You try to be funny, you know, you you you gotta be accurate, you gotta be truthful. So, um, you know, and so it's a good way to get yourself sued if you're not paying attention to the facts.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough. Have you have you gotten any uh kind of blowback or deep criticism that has um you know that has been significant to you?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no, nothing that has I have not been um attacked by the right. A few times I have um some right-wing websites have said, we're not gonna talk to you, you're the enemy, or something like that. I get that a little bit, not so much anymore. Most places listen, at the end of the day, I am exposing their content on the right to thousands of of people in the mainstream or progressive, and they might change some opinions and they're you know, it's like you know, you're in the content business, you love it when you're when your brand gets exposed to a wider audience. So it's so it's a good so it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. Um something else that's that's interesting, especially since you've I mean, since you've been uh almost 10 years since you've been doing this portion of your work alone. Uh are there any well I'm sure there are, but you know, can you explain maybe some of the significant trends that you have found in right-wing media throughout your time doing this kind of work?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um well they hate Michelle Obama. Right. They hate um uh they hate Hillary Clinton. That that that's for sure. Um now the the number one piñata, especially after the um New York primaries uh let this week, um Mayor Mund Mamdami. Uh they don't like him. You don't call him Comrade Mandami, um call him a communist. Um James Talerico or Talerico, however you pronounce it, he's gonna be he's gonna be he's definitely gonna be in the crosshairs. Um there is widespread um dislike, and I'm using a mild word here, for um powerful um women of color. That does not sit well with a lot of right-wing outlets. Um and and a lot of that is also driven by um Donald Trump. He's he's he's the leading cheerleader against that. Um so um there's also I I detect strains of definitely anti-elitism, anti-cultural, anti-higher education. And certainly um anti um uh I find a lot of anti-gay, certain, and and you know, June is Pride Month. Uh it's not as pronounced as it's been the last two or three years, but there's a there's a lot of negativity directed at Pride Month.
SPEAKER_00Well, can can you explain that a bit more? Obviously, that's uh why why it is, why there is yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, well, I would say this. So I would say, so when we look at MAGA, MAGA stands for make America Great Again, right? So I think that the term really means make America white and heterosexual again. That's really you know, it's people think it was really like you know, instead of looking forward, trying to be aspirational, it was kind of like a look back into the 50s, and we're trying to be like looking back great, you know, when was America great? You know, maybe from the 50s when we thought of everyone was you was white and heterosexual. Maybe, maybe that's what that means. So I think a lot of that gets driven gets driven by that, um and and um and and the fact that the um um you know certain things like drag queen story hour really tend to piss off the right. That does not sit well at all.
SPEAKER_00Well, what if you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts on having a drag queen read to little kids like that?
SPEAKER_01I'm against it. Okay, um, I I think I you know, and I I also think just even politically, it's like why would what as a for democrats, why you getting positioned as the party supporting drag queen story hour? That is a how are you gonna win over the middle? You know, if you have that, if you have that position, you're pushing people who are in the middle into the arms of MAGA. So I think it's a politically losing proposition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Fair enough. Um, but yeah, that is a that is a big one. Um I remember when that first started. Um you would kind of see it in the social media and stuff, people harping on it, uh, and you still do. It's definitely one with I mean, with I would say with good reason. I think there's a lot of problems.
SPEAKER_01Jordan, I really and Jordan, I commend you for bringing that up and having that point of view. And it's hard to have that point of view because you you know, two years ago, I think I might have been nervous to express that, but I th I think it's I think it's okay, I think it's okay now to say that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think not to get off topic, but I think when it comes to that, I think that it's almost it almost feels like it's turning into um uh like if you if you criticize Israel, then you're anti-Semitic. Like, oh, if you criticize something that has to do with the LGBT 2 plus community, uh homophobic, you're homophobic, you're anti-trans and all that. And that's uh when you start acting like that or talking like that, I f I just find it completely ridiculous because it's not common sense, you're just making assumptions. Um it it it also goes with um I try to I try to shoot it right down the middle, and just because I'm talking criticizing one side, it it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm sticking up for the other side, and vice versa. Um, and I and I really hope that that's something people kind of uh clarify more in their minds when they consume media over the years, uh, because it's I mean, it's a really important thing to understand, and it's something that I don't think people do, because you you just see people getting called homophobic, Nazis, uh racists, and all that. And I know there's a lot of it out there, uh, anti Semitic, but to just call anyone that. For any reason, it I think it just waters it down, and then you can't really pick out the the real bad apples, uh, and you're just lumping people who are trying to criticize something um generally, uh, you know, in with those people, and it just causes division and chaos, and so yeah, and it's yeah, well said.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you don't want to divide, you want to unify. I think that's yeah, that's that that's where we want to, that's where we want to be. We want to heal the country and and not not divide it. I think that's important.
SPEAKER_00Do do you think uh what's what are your thoughts on the obsession with like Michelle Obama? And you mentioned Hillary Clinton. Does that kind of go in like I know the right also hates uh Barack Obama, so it could have a bit to do with that, obviously, but um there's just that whole you know misogyny, and uh I mean, Donald Trump's you know record with track record with women treating women, it's really not good. I mean, I really don't care how many articles or you know, press conferences you show me about him making announcements for things that are gonna be good for women, or him talking about how much he loves women. I mean, I read a book, uh, I think it's called All the Presidents Women, and it and it basically just does a good job of just you know reminiscing on his whole history of how he treats women. So I you know, I don't care if he's signing some executive order or making a press conference where he appears to like women, uh, I think he has I I think there's some issues there with him and women and how he sees them and how he treats them and uh how he acts towards them.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I agree with you all the way.
SPEAKER_00So uh is that is that where this hate for Michelle Obama, you know, Hillary Clinton, uh I'm just trying to think of some others I can off the top of my head, but uh those they get like up to Gavin Newsom's Gavin Newsom's wife now, Jennifer, yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_01She's starting to do that. Certainly all the the members of the squad. Um, yeah, that's true. Yeah, I I put them in there. Um, yeah, I mean there's there's there's there's so many, yeah. Nan Nancy Pelosi. Um, so there's there's there's a there's a lot of women in there. Um and listen in the right wing media they celebrate what's called trad wives, traditional wives. Um nothing necessarily wrong with it, but it's that that is seems fully embraced by the right. And that's you know that that's that's kind of the a unique phenomenon.
SPEAKER_00Um that's interesting. There's quick one quick question, like what are you what's your thought on the I mean like the the classic question of the you know the two-party system. Uh do you think there needs do you think it it's working? Do you think there needs to be more parties? Do you think there needs to be a different like a tweak to the system? Or I mean I just I don't know, man. I mean it's it's great that that uh you know countries like uh the states have the freedoms and everything, but just when it comes to how things are being dealt over the last I mean you could look at any decade really. I mean, is it really the best method? Is that something you really think of? I'm not a big question. It's a big question.
SPEAKER_01I'm not a I'm not a political scientist, I'm certainly not a political scientist. Fair enough. Yeah, I spend I spend a lot of time looking at the political system. Um, it certainly feels broken to me. Um I don't like what's happening to the Democratic Party, and certainly it it feels like um the the uh the more progressive wing is pulling the the the party far from the center. That's doesn't feel good. The you know the right, the the the Republican Party's certainly been pulled, yanked, yanked far to the right. So, you know, and I'm I'm a centrist. Like who's bringing us back to the middle? That's where that's where I that's where I think we should be. Um, unfortunately, it feels like the um the political leaders who get the attention are on the fringes. You know, that's upsetting. Um, and that the so-called boring, you know, the boring political leaders are more in the center. It's more exciting to be crazy, you know. I think that's it. It goes back to what I said about my the headlines I was looking for. You want the you're looking for something that's gonna really wake people up without completely um sending them to the exit ramp. But don't forget, Jordan, we can't forget that 1968, there was a third party candidate, George Wallace, a segregationist from Alabama. He got almost 14 percent of the popular vote, an avowed segregationist. So we've had this in our system. This is part of America, this is part of who we are. Somehow, though, the country withstands the shock of this division. Um, but I think it still doesn't make me sleep well at night, let's put it that way.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. Fair enough. What uh what are your another thing I just thought of what are your thoughts on how the media has handled I mean at any point in time of the Epstein case? That's a really I think that's a really important story, a story of stories, and I really don't think these stories are being told, and I think there's a reason for that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, tell me what's the reason? What do you think?
SPEAKER_00Well, aside from these companies, you know, being bought off and uh you know having strings pulled themselves, you know, these elites don't want the the stories told. I mean, these news companies run on clickbait and clicks and drama, you know, if it bleeds, it leads, that kind of thing. I mean, the Epstein case has so much drama and heartache and emotion, and there's just so much content there for um these corporations to roll with, and they're not touching it, they don't even want to touch it.
SPEAKER_01So you're saying that there's a deep, darker story that has that needs to be told.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Suggests, yeah, meaning that you we're it's that's the names of the of the offending men, like the bad, bad stuff is gonna come out. And I'm not challenging you, I'm just I'm just trying to. Oh I don't think it's gonna come out. I sure hope so, man. Will it? I mean but you're saying it's being suppressed on purpose or they can't get it?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. It has to why would I mean why would you why would you there's all these children children whose lives have been ruined, and even adults whose lives have been ruined, and just there's so much tragedy there that why why why would it not why would people not want to get to the bottom of it unless they're being told not to, it's some degree.
SPEAKER_01Well, I let's put it this way. I'm not in a uh conspiracy theory camp generally. Okay, I I don't um I you know I I think like with Trump, like we keep waiting to see like what what's gonna come out with Trump's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, I think that what what everyone is thinking could be is like he's gonna be named, and it this is just alleged, I'm not saying this is a fact, that he had it was sex with an underage girl. I think that's the that's the holy grail of this, if you're if you're on the left. Um and nothing's nothing's come out that way. And do I think it's being suppressed? I don't think so. I and do I know, yeah, and I can and I and it's not like I've spent dozens of hours studying it and come to that conclusion. It's just what seems like so much has been written about it. Um, you know, I got you know very deep into the JFK conspiracy theories as well. And that that was like a rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, there's a lot going on, there's a lot going on there, man. Like like it's it's like 9-11 and and JFK and Epstein, they're all really big holes.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot and you know, with the Clintons, it was Whitewater and stuff like that. So I you know, maybe it's because I I I I tend to lose focus after a while. It's my I just do not have the appetite to do those deep dives into it. Um, and it it could be right, but but so so far my instincts have have been okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, I'll just throw it out there that there are in the documents there are um there have been some FBI documents released that that with with some witnesses and and uh abuse victims that do that have named Donald Trump and and people are asking why aren't these people being reinvestigated? Why aren't these tips being followed? Uh so there is some stuff there. Um, it's just the fact that these agencies never followed up or they never seem to care to document it properly, that I think he's just kind of slipping away from that one. Um, but we don't, you know what? We don't have to get bogged down with that. Um, I'll just I'll just throw that out there. Um and it's uh it's it it's a it's a good thing to uh there's kind of two sides of the coin to being in the whole conspiratory world. It freaks you out a bit, it's a lot, but um it does kind of open your eyes to things. So um, but I mean that's kind of a conversation for um a whole other day. Um let's get back to to your work for a bit more. Um do you have any comments on the the growth of right-wing podcasting? Because that has just blown up. Obviously, you see, you know, Tucker, Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, you know, the list kind of just goes on, and they're you know, they all they all um start a podcast at some point or another, and they just you know become these influencers. We we talk about it a lot on the show, and you know it. I think it's very I mean, it's not just right wing, it's it's all these influencers that are you know being paid or influenced to some degree to to influence the masses, and I find it very problematic. But I see the the back to the right wing. Obviously, it's it's grown quite a bit with a lot of prestigious uh people. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I I I agree I I completely agree with you, and and by by the way, the the biggest right wing podcaster is Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro Ben Shapiro, and because I track um subscribers to right wing podcasts, and Ben Shapiro in a quarter will sometimes add more subscribers than the number two than the number two conservative podcast has for a decade, just in a quarter. Ben Shapiro could add 200,000 subscribers to his podcast. So he is a huge force, not only in right-wing podcasting, but in political podcasting. So he casts a long shadow. Um, and and now you have um Tucker Carlson just started a podcast a year ago, and already he has hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Megan Kelly has been enormously successful. Um, and um um uh and and Matt Matt Walsh is is another one as well. Those are some of the leading right-wing podcasters, and it shows that there's a tremendous appetite for this, um, for this content. They're very successful in reaching their audience, their audience is growing. Um and I think these podcasts actually uh impact the political process and get get right people on the right elected to office. And and and and it's probably a good way to reach young men as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, and now you have these these like like I can't even think of like Amfest and just these like political like festivals where yeah, some politicians might be there, but like the poll is just having all these podcasters and political influencers who aren't actually politicians, you know, being there and doing panels and podcasting live and doing interviews, and it's it's just it's really um you know, for the younger base, it's really getting people more interested, I find, in politics and world affairs, and uh even you know, local municipality stuff. Like, I really think it's having a huge a huge influence. Um, and like you said, a huge pull on this audience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, if you go back 15, 20 years, none of these podcasts existed. And to your to your point, I I think more people are paying attention to politics now than they ever did. You know, part of part of it, it may be the age of Trump that um, you know, in a in a way I wish I could turn my brain off and and and not and not pay attention to it and not have my antenna pointed in that direction. But it's not just me. Millions of people are doing that. I said rather, you know, I was very prescient in this. Um, I said in 2015, I was glad Trump was running because he was colorful and he made people aware of what was happening in politics, thinking like there's no way in hell he would ever be elected president. Like, who how how could that ever happen? Well, I was I was right that it got people interested in politics. I was wrong, then I I really whiffed on it that you know I didn't think his message would be appealing at all.
SPEAKER_00And to to just to cap off what you said previously about you know the existence of these podcasts and whether it's the Trump effect, I mean I look at a lot of these shows when I see clips, and and it's sometimes like if they're not gonna when Trump is gone and they don't have Trump to just glaze and love, and like I mean, what are they gonna talk about? Like, I mean, you can only assume that they're gonna hope that uh you know whatever Republican entities or supporters or you know, whatever umbrellas will continue to you know funnel them money. And but I mean, are they still gonna be as interested? Because like Trump is a character, right? He's not you know a normal politician by any means. Um he's fascinating, right? He's so fascinating, he's so entertaining, man. It's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01And and the thing is as well, Jordan. Here think about this. So he is, you know, after after Trump 1.0, you thought, like, okay, this was a one-off, like this is some weird aberration, but then he came back. So now he has become one of the seminal figures in US history. He's gonna be studied for generations. Yeah, like, oh my god. And and I think that's part of the reason why he keeps wanting to, you know, build his ballroom and and and all these monuments to himself, because he knows he knows that he's gonna have a place in history. It may not be in the top of the shiny mountain the way he thinks it, but he definitely will have a place in history. And you know, no, let's put no one's talking about Mitt Romney. You know, even when Mitt Romney was running, no one really cared about Mitt Romney.
SPEAKER_00With the dog on the car. Exactly. Exactly. Oh man, that's all I really remember from the Mitt Romney days. I think that's all I really remember.
SPEAKER_01I could barely bring myself to read an article once a week about about his his campaign. Yeah. So Trump now you read you read everything, and he he knows it. He absolutely knows it. And and it and it is he's it he's brilliant in that. I I I always say Trump should definitely step down as president, but we should make him the country's first chief marketing officer, because this is a position more aligned with his interests and his talents. That's what he's good at. Packaging this.
SPEAKER_00I've never even thought of that, man. That is an amazing thought. Like, if you can create a position for him, if I mean, at this point, it's just not gonna happen because he's so bloated with uh pride, and you know, he's he's his head's huge. But I mean, if you could have if someone could have been smart enough to before he even like thought of running, or during the time, I mean, I know there's a long history of that with Roger Stone and everything, but if someone could have said, Look, you don't want to be president, you want to do what you want to do. So, what if I make you this position and if history worked out that way, um wow, that could have been very interesting. That could have been very interesting, but but yeah, he is he's taken that that that business uh that business environment, that that television environment, and that world wrestling environment, and he's just flipped it into the White House, and it's um Trump 2.0 is definitely a completely different monster than um Trump 1.0.
SPEAKER_01I'd I'd say and Jordan, has there ever been a better political slogan than MAGA? Make America Great Again. I mean, you're hard pressed to think of that. Something that's enduring, something that's as fungible, um, and it spins off little brothers like Maha, Make America Healthy Again. Yes, it's just yeah, it's enduring. It is enduring, it will live beyond Trump, I predict. And if it's on a baseball cat, it's perfect. I mean, it's marketing brilliance.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes. It'll if it dies down, like there'll be someone eventually that'll it'll they'll bring it roaring back or something like that. Because, like, didn't who started that? It was that Reagan, was that some a Reagan?
SPEAKER_01Reagan had let's make America Great Again. So that's so that's yeah, that so again, this is Trump's brilliance that he just lopped off the lets, and then he could telescope it into MAGA and turn it instead, and you know, I would have called it MAGA. I mean, it's it's not M-A-G-G-A MAGA, it's it's it's a short A. Like even that works better. It's all it's just brilliant. It seems, I mean, it's that's what simplicity, it's so simple, and it's it's a bumper sticker, it's a baseball cap, it's a temperature, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It fits everything, it's a comic book, it's uh it's fits on a pen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, crazy, man. Um just before we wrap up. What around now and uh in in in history, what have you found to be the sites that are getting the most? I mean, not in history, but but now I guess you could say what are the the right wing sites that are getting the most traffic? Are you privy to that?
SPEAKER_01Oh, sure. I'm the only one who's monitoring it. I've been doing I've been doing it for eight years. Yeah. Um, so right now, first of all, every um right wing site in the last month has lost traffic. And so have all the mainstream and progressive sites. Um, so why is this happening? Yeah, why is this happening? Well, there's a war going on, there's so much going on, you would think that traffic would be increasing. Um I and I do think it's it's a number of factors. Uh um you could say it's news fatigue. I think it's more. I think it may some of it may be technological. I think that um um AI is stealing traffic. Um instead, you know, when you Google something, it would take you right to a site. And now uh this year, uh more than ever, it's all it just you just get a little AI summation, and you don't you never have to go to the site to get the I think that I also think that um for every uh fired journalist, there's a new Substack is born. So I think all these alternative platforms are pulling people away. I think there's more um there's more podcasts, right? Um out there. So the the commodity is attention and it's it's being pulled away from everything. So you know that's that's what's that's what's happening. I'll be curious to see as we round the corner into the midterms, um, and uh um uh when that heats up in October and November, if the traffic returns. But so far it has been shockingly um uh on the negative side.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of like what and I imagine like what you do, it's almost like people are who want to go to a mall and and and they don't know what's there, they're gonna go and they're gonna spend more time, there's gonna be more traffic. But you what you do, you kind of like give them a little cheat sheet and say, Well, here's at the mall, here's what's at the mall, and here's where you find it, and all that. So they just go to the mall much more quickly, get what they need, and they get out.
SPEAKER_01That's that's right, that's right. Or or or I'm just so here I am in New York City, and it's like there's a lot of little fruit stands on the corners, stuff like that. So you go to the supermarket to buy something, but then you see it right there on the curb, and you just get your few things there, you never go to the store. Yeah, that's that's what and incrementally you take that away, and that's how you lose business.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. You know what, man, is Howard? It's been a it's been a real pleasure meeting you, man. I've I've really enjoyed our talk. I I really hope we can do this again. I would love to pick your brain about um all sorts of different things. Um, before we go, is there anything else that you'd like to share? Uh, anything you'd like to let the audience know?
SPEAKER_01Just um visit my site, the writing.com. Um subscribe, it's free. You'll get it every day, every weekday, and I'll try not to scare you with uh with terrible headlines.
SPEAKER_00That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Oh beautiful. Look at that. There's that blue subscribe button. I love it. You're the man, Jordan. Thank you. Look, I have a I have a I have a midterm countdown ticker. Absolutely love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um what um any thoughts on the midterms, or is it still too early to say? I mean, I guess it's uh I mean I still a little ways away, but I mean it doesn't look good for the Republicans, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01It still doesn't look good. You can't it you just can't you just can't tell. You know, if if gas I think a lot will depend on gas prices. I think I think that's gonna depend. That that that'll be a big factor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And what and what happens with you know Iran, that that's certainly that's I mean, if if all of a sudden the situation with Iran, it really gets it really improves dramatically. Um JD Vance looks like a hero. It's it's it all you know, anything could happen.
SPEAKER_00So interesting. Well, Howard, um, it's been a pleasure, my friend. Um, I'll I'll I'll definitely have to reach out again if you ever want to come back.
SPEAKER_01Please, I don't know. I'd love I'd love to. You were great. You asked such smart questions. Very good.
SPEAKER_00If uh if I haven't hit you up uh recently and you feel like you want to come back, just let me know. Otherwise, uh yeah, we'll we'll talk to you soon, my friend. You uh you have a good day, and um again, thanks for thanks for your time and thanks for what you do, man.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me. Big appreciation.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Howard. All the best, man. Okay, guys, that was uh that was fun. Um sorry about the uh the kind of last minute drop. Um and sorry about just the lack of episodes lately. We've we've had a lot going on. Um not just we've had a couple people changing their schedules, but I've just had a lot of different personal stuff going on um that we don't need to get into right now, but it's just it's just caused some some uh focus changes and pressures, and I've just had to juggle a lot of stuff around, but um, I will make sure to be getting out a lot of good stuff over the summer, and uh once the summer wraps up, uh I think things are gonna be picking up a lot more. Um for those who are still watching, uh I'll um we are um we are still giving away the iPad, and we're trying to get us up to a thousand subscribers. Um what I'm gonna do if you guys are watching right now, I'm gonna I'm gonna honor this for the next 24 hours. So for those watching live and for those who watch it, um yeah, in the next 24 hours, uh, if you're entering the contest, um if you've already entered, just shoot me an email. And um uh sorry, if you've already done a uh referral, shoot me an email and I will uh I'll add it to I'll uh retroactively add it. But if you haven't entered yet for the pod the iPad, um all you gotta do is subscribe to the YouTube channel and then um send the screenshot of proof to divulgence mail at gmail.com. For those of who haven't done it yet, if you do it right now, um I'll give you um five bonus entries as opposed to one, and for every referral you do before the 24 hours, I will give you 15 bonus entries instead of five. Um, and because it's such a tight window of people, uh that really increases your chances quite well. Uh, you get the you get the iPad, you get the case, and I will send it to you. Um, I'll pay the charge as well. Um, so yeah, if you want to do that, you can take advantage of that. Um I'd like to, it's weird because I've been having people subscribe, but my numbers have been actually going down, and I think um a certain company is might be may or may not be screwing around with me. So I'd like to just take a little test and see. So if you guys could help me out with that, that would help me greatly. And you have a kick-ass chance of uh winning an iPad. Uh, and I do have some runner-up prizes as well, uh, at least two, maybe more. So um, you know, you have a pretty good chance of winning something if you take advantage of this. Um, other than that, thanks to everyone in the audience. Uh, all the subscribers and supporters, much appreciated. Uh, make sure to check out Scott Horton Academy as well. I've been I've been uh looking into the content on there lately um with some of my free time, and it's actually really good. Um, it's really awesome. So um I think Scott's great. Um, that's why I you know bought some of his gear. Uh I always like to support the great ones. Um, yeah, if you want a discount as well, um, you can go to Scott Horton Academy.com slash divulgence and yeah, you get a nice discount. I recommend the uh lifetime subscription, just makes sense. Um and I think that's about it right for now, guys. Uh, make sure to please subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, uh, also uh audio podcasts are available on Spotify, Apple, wherever we get your podcasts, and uh yeah, greatly appreciate a thumbs up, uh a heart, five star, a nice comment, review, anything you could do to help us grow. We'd we'd definitely like to get up to the thousand subscribers on YouTube and help grow the channel uh over the summer so we can start bringing you something even bigger and better. Um, but yeah, I think that's about it for now, guys. We have Scott Horton in the house tomorrow. Uh Friday, I might be booking a show as well, and then we might do another uh weekend show. So I'm gonna try to throw you guys a bunch of bunch of new episodes over the next week uh to make up for some of the lost time. And then uh Monday we might be bringing in uh Susan Bradford, who has done a lot of really good books, including Royal Blood Lies, and she has the new book out uh The Black Rock Bamboozle, which I just got, so I'm gonna be checking that out. Uh yeah, and then we have uh, you know, all your favorites, Austin Wait, Picard, uh JJ, Colt Rejects, Courtney, um, Courtney Turner, William Ramsey, uh Billy Ray, Darnold, Jeffries. Uh, we're gonna be bringing them all back soon and much more. And um, and yeah, we'll bring Bart Sabell back to uh continue our moon chats and our space chats. Um, yeah, I guess that's it, guys. So all the best, peace and love. Make sure to subscribe, take advantage of the 24 hours. Um, I I you know I don't want to give away the numbers and make it too easy for people, but if you take good enough advantage of what I'm throwing out there for the next 24 hours, um you can. I won't say that y'all guarantee it guarantees you the iPad, but you could probably almost guarantee yourself a prize. So um take it for what you will. Uh all the best, you guys. Uh take care, peace and love. And uh yeah, share the episode, share the channel, help us grow, and just appreciate your support, guys. Take care.