People vs Inequality Podcast
People vs Inequality Podcast
S5 Ep3: Solidarity in times of genocide
What does solidarity mean to people facing occupation, war, genocide even? And what can we learn from the past 1,5 years when it comes to standing in solidarity with the people of Palestine, and people being oppressed across the globe? No easy questions, but we are exploring them in this episode with three amazing women.
Rana al Qawasmi is a Palestinian nutritionist and public health specialist, Lyla Adwan-Kamara is a Palestinian-Irish disability rights activist and leader, and Michaela Rafferty is an Irish youth worker and activist with a longstanding solidarity bond with Palestine. The three of them will reflect on their experiences with solidarity both within Palestine and internationally, and what we can all do to strengthen our solidarity practice.
From local to international realities, finding a moral compass to addressing fear, and small scale action to systems change – this is an opportunity to learn and reflect. So grab a coffee or tea and listen in on the conversation!
*This episode is part of the People vs Inequality season ‘Let’s talk about Solidarity’ and a project of Atlantic Fellows for Social and Economic Equity (AFSEE) trying to understand, critique and reimagine solidarity in these challenging times. https://afsee.atlanticfellows.lse.ac.uk/en-gb/blogs/afsee-incubation-labs-lets-talk-about-solidarity
Credits: The People vs Inequality Podcast is a co-production between Barbara van Paassen (host, creator) and Elizabeth Maina (producer). This episode was edited by Charles Righa.
Resources - learn more about:
Rana: https://healthequity.atlanticfellows.org/fellows/rana-al-qawsmi/
Lyla: https://afsee.atlanticfellows.lse.ac.uk/en-gb/fellows/2023/lyla-adwan-kamara
Michaela: https://afsee.atlanticfellows.lse.ac.uk/en-gb/fellows/2019/michaela-rafferty
Their work and references in this episode:
Atlantic Fellows for Palestine – Medium
Solidarity action in Belfast Ireland;
-Big Ride 4 Palestine The Big Ride for Palestine
-Cycle for Palestine Ireland https://www.instagram.com/cycleforpal.ireland?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
-BDS Belfast https://www.instagram.com/bdsbelfast?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
More about the Solidarity Incubation lab:
Community reflections on solidarity - https://www.canva.com/design/DAGbiB8gN2Q/KfaoUMAKBy0bnqEUv6dCQg/view
People vs Inequality Season 5 Episode 3 – Solidarity in times of genocide
Barbara: Welcome to the People Versus Inequality podcast. In a time of crisis and fast change. This podcast is a space to reflect and learn with change makers on how to tackle inequality. In this season, we dive into solidarity and we try to understand, critique and reimagine solidarity in these challenging times.
It is a result of two years of conversation with a group of Atlantic Fellows, and today it is time to zoom in on what of course came up a lot. Palestine, what does solidarity mean to people facing occupation, war, genocide even, and what can we learn from the past one and a half years when it comes to standing in solidarity with the people of Palestine and people being oppressed across the globe?
These are no easy questions, but luckily we have three amazing women with us calling in from Jerusalem, Belfast, Ireland, and Accra, Ghana. Rana Al Qawasmi is a Palestinian nutritionist and public health specialist working tirelessly to tackle barriers and strengthen healthcare services for Palestinians, which of course is ever more difficult. Michaela Rafferty is an Irish youth worker, an activist with a longstanding solidarity bond with Palestine, which she will talk more about. And Lyla Adwan-Kamara is a Palestinian Irish disability rights activist and leader, whom you might have heard in the recent live recording. And if you haven't heard that conversation yet, please go and listen.
The three of them will reflect on their experiences and what we can all do to strengthen our solidarity practice. My name is Barbara van Paassen and I'm the host of the People Versus Inequality podcast, and I'm very honored and grateful for today's episode and guests. So please grab a coffee or tea and listen in on the conversation!
So welcome Lyla, Rana, Michaela, thank you. Welcome for being here. [others: Thank you for having us, Barbara. Happy to be here.] So as said, I'm, I'm really grateful because it's not easy to bring. The three of you together. Um, and especially also Rana you are in Jerusalem. Uh, we hear the pray, the call to prayers in the back, I think.
And, um, maybe Rana, we can start with you whether you would like to introduce yourself a little bit. Um, maybe tell us where you're sitting and what you're seeing. Um, and if you wanna already dive into what solidarity means to you. And it's a big question, but if there is like a word that comes to mind or something to kick us off, please do. Cool. Thank you.
RANA: Uh, my name is Rana Al-Qawasmi. I am now seated in Jerusalem. And as Barbara, the call of prayers as in my background, uh, I actually see exactly the background, that when you Google Jerusalem, it just shows up directly. I can see here the main touristic and religious, places and figures and our beloved city, uh, of, uh, Jerusalem. I hope that you can come someday and enjoy seeing this. I am an AFHE fellow, Atlantic Fellow for Health Equity, and I ask myself every single day what the meaning of equity is. Is that really the meaning that we learned about in dictionary and when we search the meaning of equity, or is it something that we live or something that we experience?
Living in Palestine makes me question myself every day about, many terms that have been, uh, rising up through the last year and a half or more. And for me as a Palestinian, it's more like 76 years of occupation. So it's not only during the year 2023 and, and ahead, um. I do work on helping Palestinian patients to seek better medical care.
I focus on health systems strengthening for the Palestinian, uh, health system, which needs restoration now and rebuilding even in some parts of Palestine and especially in Gaza, where everything is destroyed. And, uh, a great part of, of this destruction as the health system. hat solidarity means for me. Um, as a Palestinian living in Jerusalem and being all around Palestine before, and it's a kind of a bit different than the solidarity and the international understanding.
Here in Palestine we stand in solidarity with each other every single day. There's no Palestinian house that didn't face trouble and oppression because of the Israeli occupation, then solidarity for us as Palestinians is a commitment. It's a lifetime responsibility and commitment towards each other. Um, it doesn't matter where we live as it was bank, as they were Jerusalem.
Um, so we stand in solidarity with, with each other in every single moment of our lives. Starting from houses, demolished, displacement, um, even food sharing, uh, standing with each other when we get one of our, uh, kids or men or girls shot or when we have any, people in the hospital or any attacks by, uh, the occupation?
I started experiencing the solidarity on international level while I was with, uh, my colleagues friends and my big family of the Atlantic Fellows and other colleagues of mine, uh, from different parts of the word. Uh, it's a different meaning for me and it's, um, it's, it just keeps reminding me that we are heard.
In some different places in the world, we do exist in the minds of people that stand, uh, in solidarity with Palestinians.
I do think that people are doing great job that we've never experienced before, and I'm not sure about historically how this happened before. Uh, supporting a specific case with different, you know, oppressions and different political, um, conflict all around the world. But for us it's very meaningful and it's very helpful, uh, spreading the knowledge about the Palestinian case and what's taking place now in and has been taking place for more than 76 years for now.
Um, it's a huge, uh, meaning for us and very important.
BARBARA: Yeah. Thank you so much Rana, for sharing that, and there's already so much there I'd, I'd like to, uh, follow up on. Um, yeah, I think first of all, it's in incredible, of course, what's happening now and what's been happening for 76 years. Um, and you're right, it's it's not recent. We're in this, in this conversation, we look at what can we learn from this, you know, past few years, but maybe there's also a lot to learn from the years before and, and what maybe has or hasn't worked.
And, um, and from what's happening within Palestine because, I think that's something that's also don't, not many people outside can even imagine, or these people if sitting in places like myself in the Netherlands, don't have no idea about the level of hardship and solidarity that, uh, that exists in other places.
So, um, I'm, yeah, I'll be interested to hear a bit more about that later as well. Um, Michaela, would you like to go and, uh, share something about.
MICHAELA: Yeah, sure. Um, so my name's Michaela. I am a senior fellow with Atlantic Fellows for Social and Economic Equity. Um, I live and work now in Belfast. Um, I work as a youth worker, mainly on peace and reconciliation work. And I'm also a dedicated advocate for peace and freedom, equality and justice for everyone in the world. But, particularly with the people of Palestine. And I would say I have been, since I was a child myself, um, I suppose growing up in, in Belfast, it's, it's quite a politicized society. Um, we have institutionalized segregation.
Um, and for anyone who doesn't know our society is quite carved up on, on religious divide, um, between Catholic and Protestant. Um, and due to British occupation in the six counties of Ireland, we have, um, a devolve government who have, for their own self-interest, maintain this entrenched segregation.
Um, and I work with young people who are growing up in these communities and, and in her this, this siege mentality. Um, but back when I was younger, my, my daddy was very politically active and spent time in, in jail for his political act actions in, in fighting British occupation. Um, and as a family, we suffer quite a lot from police harassment and intimidation.
Um, and the kind of othering within society because at that time, um, political prisoners were, were demonized. And while my daddy was in jail, I went to a youth group and was given details of a young person in Palestine whose father was being hailed in an Israeli prison.
And we became like pen pals, um, sharing insights and thoughts and, and bits of our reality. And I remember back then, even as a child realizing that my friend in Palestine's reality was very different than mine. And although we did have what I've, what felt like real injustice, um, in coming in, in, into our house and police being able to turn our house upside down, and you just that constant worry of when it was going to happen again or how when my daddy was, how long my daddy was gonna be held for and these kind of things, um, I realized through the, this girls telling of her stories that the horrific day to day bombardment that she was facing, that her family was facing her communities, um, sirens, waking people outta their sleep, all boys and men being removed from their homes, some return, some did not return. Um, and just this, this lack of, of power and control over her day-to-day life.
And at the mercy of a killing machine that had nothing but their own self-interests in, in behind their, their intention of what they were doing. Um, and we, we exchanged letters like quite sporadically for, for a number of years, and then the letters just stopped. And, you know, I off wondered what, what happened to her? Was she killed, was her family displaced again? Did the letters get in, in intercepted by Israel? Um. You know, and I, and I guess like that was just me kinda having a, a quite distant contact and friendship with this girl.
And then I went to Palestine with my sister in 2016 and we lived in an nonnery for three months and I volunteered on a youth right. With a youth rights organization. And my sister Anna volunteered in a maternity ward. So we, we got to see that just the what, the day to day occupation, how much of an impact that has on Palestinians, right to live in that they don't. Um, and, and they're, um, what we kinda take for granted, I guess, um, in just your sort of freedom of movement, your access to healthcare, to food, to school, to all of the things that make, make life, life, um, for a lot of us in our parts of the world was just continuously, um, disrupted.
But what I did learn in the time that I was in Palestine, it, I Also spent some time in the Desha refugee camp in Bethlehem and Abdaa Center, which is a cultural center celebrating cultures from the hometowns of where people had to leave in the, in the illegal creation of the Israeli state. And this was three, four generations.
So kids knowing their dialect and how meals were cooked slightly differently in, in the part of Palestine that they came from. Um, what their cultural dance and, and dress was, and keeping these cultures alive and holding the symbol of the key, um, with their, their right and their will to return to their homeland.
And I just have never met a, a stronger nation of people and, and at that real determination and, and fight for life in their, in their day to day just trying to live, but also with the, the hope and the vision that they will run one day return and justice will prevail. And I learned so much the strength, the love and determination for life under the most barbaric situations.
Um, and I remember when I was leaving Palestine and feeling like completely riddled with my own. With guilt of my own privilege, why did I get an Irish passport, that that can go back to a, safe land? And, and I remember asking my friends in Palestine, please tell me what, what can we do, um, to really properly stand in solidarity with you?And, and the, the general consensus was, don't let the world forget that Palestine exists and to do what you can to stop Israel in their tracks. And yeah, I suppose I made a promise with myself then that, that that's what I do, whatever, whatever I can to be at service.
BARBARA: Thank you so much, Michaela, for sharing. Um, also your own personal history, um, and how you came to, I guess, a different understanding than some other people in, um, this part of, the world when it comes to, Palestine and the experiences of oppression and not being able to do what for some are very normal acts in daily life.
And I'm, I'm also curious because that promise that you made to yourself, I think I've seen some things happening in the past. You know, you've been mobilizing in your own local spaces, so I'd be curious to hear it a bit more about that later as well.
And Lila, uh, not a first on our show, but some people may not have heard the other episode yet, so Please, yeah. Do you wanna come in and share a bit about who you are and, um, how you look at the issue of solidarity in a, in a nutshell.
LYLA: Uh, thank you, thank you so much. Um, I mean, look, I, I, I'm Lyla Adwan- Kamara, and, um, I honestly, I see myself as a really ordinary person and, and I'm a little over awed with, um, you know, just being here, being able to speak with, with yourself Rana and, and Michaela. And I think I'm just gonna really learn a lot from the, the conversation.
My work is, is really in, in disability and mental health and social justice and, um, it's really interesting 'cause one of my areas of work is, is about exploring burnout among disability activists. And, and actually one of the drivers of burnout that, that I'm seeing through that work is around a lack of solidarity.
And, and I guess you can also flip it and, and look at. The extent to which solidarity is something that that really keeps us going and motivated and, and able to carry on and. I am Palestinian Irish, so I feel like I'm a good of a connection point between Rana and, and Michaela. And, um, uh, of course there are just, uh, these really clear interlinkages between justice work and Palestine and these clear interlinkages, um, and sometimes sort of very explicit historical linkages between Ireland and Palestine.
And, you know, the, the stories that, that both Rana and Michael were telling, you know, these, these experiences really resonate with me. And, um, just, just from my perspective, I'm, I'm very involved in sort of many different ways across multiple groups. Um, I guess just campaigning for an end to the genocide and, and for a free and peaceful Palestine.
And, um, I'm just really happy to be able to talk about some of these issues and, and to reflect on, on what solidarity means and. I really liked what was said earlier about, solidarity really being about being heard about uplifting people's voices and, and I also think there are just some really practical things that we can do as well in solidarity too, to support each other.
And yeah, I'm really looking forward to talking about some of that.
BARBARA: Yeah. Thank you so much. And actually the, the, what you're referring to in terms of solidarity, um, keeping, keeping people going, that was one of the first thing that stood out for me in the conversations we had, just how important it has been to people to know that there are others, um, out there that care, for their struggle.
You've been sharing already some insights coming from your personal histories. Um, and in our project, as I mentioned, Palestine came up so much in the conversations we've been having with fellows, both when it comes to the limits of solidarity, but also the examples of building bridges, of, of building more intersectional movements, of making links between LGBT movements and, and those fighting for Palestine.
And, um, but, and, but also a sense of being lost, how do we feel even about solidarity or the world more generally as all these things are happening and continue to happen. I'm curious to know, um, from where you're sitting, what are some of the insights. What have you seen happening that has maybe surprised you or, um, yeah, generated kind of new insights on, on what solidarity can look like and um, how we can foster it.
Rana, do you wanna go first?
RANA: Yeah, actually it was thinking about what Michala was saying about the refugee camp that she's been to and the sort of life, uh, that people in refugee camps live in. Actually, that Dheisheh refugee camp is one of the fine refugee camps. We do have much more miserable refugee camps in old Palestine and hopefully.
Uh, no refugee camps will be very soon and everybody will be living in proper land and return to their houses. And the symbol of the key, the symbol of the key is very much important for all Palestinians. And you can see it in refugee camps, not only in Palestine, but all the Palestinian diaspora and Jordan, Syria, Lebanon.
Everywhere you see Palestinians, you can even on, on the embroidery pieces that we, we put in our houses or the dresses that we have, we always have symbols of us, um, our culture and returning back. And when a grandpa dies when he left or she left the grandma in a 1948 in the Nakba and the catastrophe, the Palestinian catastrophe, or in the Naksa afterwards, in 1967, each grandparents give this key to the coming generation.
So they keep the memory of the house. The house doesn't even exist now with the, with the Israeli occupation, expansion and buildings. So though the, the meaning of the key is very important to us, which is a symbol of us returning, uh, and the refugees return to their places where they were, um, uh, displaced from forcefully.
Surprising is that the numbers of the people, the huge solidarity movements, um, we, we call it the waking up. We calling the waking up of millions of people that didn't know about, uh, much about, uh, Palestinian conflict and, uh, the occupation that we've been living.
The other surprising, uh, thing for internationally, but for us, it's not as, as Palestinians, we're not that much surprised of the complicity of many, many, governments and, and bodies all around the world with this genocide that is taking place for us. We know ourselves. We know that how much we shout and call for support and advocate for ourselves. We're still not heard the way that we would like to be heard and surprisingly, and that there are still millions of people all around the world that don't agree on our rights of returning our rights, of living our, the right of people to stop being in this genocide that has been taking place for so long..
Um, so these are like some different things that I thought about when Michaela was speaking and then when Lila was, was speaking about, uh, how she relates to this. And we do much. Um, appreciate, um, Irish people's movements actually. We know that we have different, we had different conflict. I mean, for sure we do. We do have politically and the whole concept of the conflict of, of, uh, of Palestine, Israel, and, and, uh, Ireland is different, but it's still living some hard situation out of your hands and you cannot help yourself or your people in the level that you would like to. But it's still, it's still hardship and we actually value every single experience and every single person that speak about an experience of being oppressed or being occupied or being under military, uh, ruling that is not equal or equitable for, for them. Uh, freedom of movement, water, electricity, health system, uh, sovereignty over our lands. Even olive harvest, like everything is, is controlled. Um, and, uh, it just makes our lives harder every single day. But. It doesn't mean that we forget about our key and we don't forget about our, about our rights to get back actually to our lands and to our beloved, uh, people.
LYLA: Rana. I, I really loved hearing you talk about people waking up because it, it really feels like that. You know, I remember many, many years ago, I, I worked at a place where my, my boss, um, got a new boyfriend who, who happened to, to have been a soldier in the Israeli army. This, this was in the UK, right. Um, and when she went on maternity leave, the boyfriend became my boss and he found out about my Palestinian heritage.
And then every meeting that we had, for any reason, he, he would tell me how many Palestinians he had killed when he was in the Army, like he really relished it, you know, and when, when I went to complain to, to, you know, human resources, they, what they told me was to take him out for a coffee and to clear the air.
And, you know, I feel like that that actually could still happen today. The change hasn't been that profound that it couldn't happen. But I think that the difference is, is that today people would stand next to me, shoulder to shoulder, and help me push it back against that level of harassment.
And I think that for me is, is a huge, huge change. I mean, I remember as a child, um, walking in demonstrations and they were not of the scale of what you see today. I mean, there, there has been this huge kind of surge in, in support and it's, it's, it's very heartening and I think, you know, being, being able to be like in community with others has really helped a lot, like in terms of sharing ideas and working towards this common goal.
And then also just having a, a range of people to take on the load of organizing or, or even, you know, who speaks up at different times. Like, it doesn't always have to be one person's voice, but you find strength in different people speaking up in different voices at different times. And I, I think that's been really, really powerful and, and it's just this evidence that, you know, you don't have to do everything alone and that others are alongside you. And, and you can kind of take a breath now and again, and you can, just recover now and again. You can take that space and, and you know, I think that really, really enables me to, to sort of keep going that level of, of support and sharing.
You know, there are challenges, particularly when, when you are, we are trying to act in solidarity with people, but you're really far apart in time and place.
I mean, just practically that, that is really tricky. Um, but I think fundamentally one of the hardest things that I've experienced, and it's been both practically but also emotionally difficult is, is resistance by the people who are supposed to lead us. Right in our institutions politically, how are these people in charge, you know, and they hide behind neutrality and both-sidism and they're running scared of weaponized accusations of antisemitism.
And what they actually are is like complicit in genocide. You know, e even leaders that you, you know, they've experienced their own oppressions in their own lives, and yet they still will only speak for empire.
MICHAELA: Yeah, I think I've, I've definitely seen exactly what you're explaining there, and I think that the level of fear amongst people. if I speak out my job might be under review or I might lose some friends, or I might, I'm actually starting to wonder, and maybe because I'm really trying to understand people, understand people who are able to look the other way or who kinda say, yeah, I care about humanity, but oh no, don't ask me to act on, on that. And I'm trying to hold, just hold it as an observation and, and keep track of my own judgment on things, because I think that that's not necessarily useful in bringing people in. Um, but I do, I mean, it's, I do judge, you know, because I think that we all should feel this level of urgency that Palestine is a moral compass for us all. It's an opportunity for us all to look at the oppressive systems that we are all governed by and that we're all conditioned through. And that we really need to get to the root cause of, in order for us all to live in freedom.
I'm starting to now try and shift my, my and how I speak about these things a little bit and to, to kinda make people feel that level of urgency that, okay, if you don't care about Palestine today.
I mean, pretty sure it's gonna come to your pretty soon. It for sure it's gonna come to your door. So then maybe you should start current, you know, and if it's not through a level of empathy and humanity, which I think we all should have and we all do have, that's been kinda wired out of us through the capitalists in just unequal society that we've become normalized to.
But I think that then if we're going down the individual route that has been promoted so much, um, through these systems, then we need to actually start making people realize that soon it's going to come to our door. And if the UN and all of these mechanisms that have been put in place to try and protect, um, human life isn't able to stop the most well-documented genocide in human history.
What makes people think that whenever it comes to our streets that it's going be any different? Who's going to be there to, to speak up for us?
BARBARA: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing those reflections that really, really resonate. We're having some similar conversations also here in the Netherland, including on other issues and other people being oppressed in our society and people not standing up. And uh, and I think in terms of morally clarifying moment, what I've been really sitting with is this question of privilege and. It seems to me that it's harder, the, the more privileged and power you have, the harder it seems to be for people to actually do, do something or stand in solidarity, either because they're not used to it, they don't, they, it's, it feels further away. There is more to lose. And, and then how do you, how do you call these people in, in a way that makes them overcome their fears and, and not only build empathy and care, but also agency, uh, because that's also something that I feel many people are lacking. So, and that's sometimes also holds people back. So sometimes I see people caring, but they don't have a history of activism or they don't have a, they don't kind of relate to that way of, of thinking and working.
Rana, you talked a little bit before about like within Palestine there is, you know, such a strong culture of, of solidarity. Is there something there that you feel, other parts of the globe can learn from?
RANA: And I do think that this solidarity between each other has spread all over the word. And whenever I see people that. Go and when it's freezing or snowy or raining, despite weather, despite all barriers and borders and oppressions, some governments do on demonstrations and people still go out and they still demonstrate even one person by himself or herself, they demonstrate.
We can say that maybe this solidarity that we have with each other maybe has spread. To different parts of the world and people stand for each other, even in demonstrations. People in Europe stand for Halil that is being oppressed in the States, for example, or somewhere else in the world. So, um, this is, uh, spreading internationally and this gives us hope.
This gives us hope that something will change and, and maybe nations and populations all over can not only stand for Palestine, but only stand for other conflicts and other issues that are in need for our support, uh, all over the world. We still believe that we need to stand for ourselves and, and advocate for the people who can't do it for themselves. For sure. Yeah.
BARBARA: Thank you so much, Rana. The three of us really appreciate, um, that you are sharing with us.
Lyla: I really want to reflect on, on what Ranna was saying and, and to circle back on what we were talking about earlier about, you know, Palestine being like a, a moral compass or, or I've heard it described as a litmus test or, you know, and part of me wants to reject that because I feel like honestly Palestinians have enough to carry without also being considered, you know, a litmus test or, you know it's not actually our, our responsibility on, on top of everything else.
And, and especially hearing some of the stories that runners telling. But, but you know, in a very real sense, it, it is a morally clarifying moment. You know, people I looked up to and respected, refused to take any meaningful action like that. Many of them won't even say that killing Palestinian babies is wrong, which is the bare minimum by the way.
Right? Because killing our men and women is also wrong. So they won't even do, do the bare minimum. And I've, I've been told to be more polite and less strident and not to use the word complicit and to watch the tone and all of that stuff, which is, you know, it's actually gendered and, and racially charged feedback, right?
And, and it's a way of invalidating the message because how am I supposed to more politely say? Like, like, what? Pretty Please stop genociding us. Like, I mean, it's ridiculous. And um, there's this quote, right? Nobody in the world, nobody in history has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.
You know, that's Assata Shakur and you know, I actually self-censor a lot. I do, I self sense and I think a lot of Palestinians in the diaspora do. And, and I'm trying to do less of that because my, my mind was infected for a long time with like the politics of respectability. And one thing that has been like this really huge source of solidarity for me is having colleagues who, who not only speak up like on their own account, but they also challenge these more like subtle repressions around speech and tone.
So for us now in terms of solidarity, I think it is about just really seeing how our, our struggles are and how we do need to sort of band together in this very broad based movement and, and, um, just, just keep sticking together.
But it's not easy. It's not easy at all.
MICHAELA: I really think I, I totally agree with you le I think that we have to move to, even in how we frame our, uh, I'm just trying so many different tactics because I'm kind of feeling like things are, that aren't working or that aren't working at a fast enough pace.
I'm like okay, let's try this. And I really think. And acknowledging like the Zionist killing machine is the same beast as the huge corporations that are killing our planets and the Andrew Tates and Connor McGregors of the world who are poisoning our young people's brain with misogyny or the slum landlords who are victim families onto the street or the same beast that's made the political choices in Britain to privatize the NHS and to cut disabled and sick people's benefits. And a, a recent, I just read yesterday a report that was done. Um, in parts of England were that, find that eight out of 10 primary school teachers are using their own money to buy food because there's so many kids coming into school hungry in Britain, the fifth richest country in the world who last year spent 53.9 billion on defense.
You know, and I see here in Ireland, there's a huge recruitment drive for the Irish Army. I see it on British tv, a huge recruit recruitment drive for the British Army. They're using very, um, appealing terms, like this is where you belong, and I, having worked my whole career as a youth worker, I can understand that need for belonging, that need for self-importance. That somewhere that you're getting acknowledge for the person that you are and you're able to develop skills and, you know, I, I just, it maddens me because the systems that are put in place, our education system, our economic system, our labor market are all not fit for purpose any longer for so many children and young people.
And here is the army and the militarization of our youth just, just going at an exponential speed. Um, the same with our police service here in the north of Ireland as well. They're on a huge recruitment drive and I really worry that our, societies are becoming more and more militarized and. That all that's doing is, I mean, genocide is a lucrative market.
Not to oversimplify things, but I really sometimes think that people forget high. We have got to, where we have in the world is through human choice and a different world can be created by different human choice. You know, it's, it, it, of course, it's, that's a very crude, simplified way of looking at things.
But I really do think that we need to be reminded of our, our power as individuals and even more sure our collective power. Um, if we can just get our heads together.
BARBARA: Thank you so much. That's also, uh, a really strong, call for direction moving forward. Um, and it's so interesting that these intersec, the kind of intersections or the root causes of what's, what we see happening and what you paint the kind of militarizing picture in our, in Ireland, we, I see something similar happening here. I think one of the biggest, the most difficult things to do when calling people in, because that's what, you know, a lot of people really find very difficult when you're at a demo and there's being things that talked about, um, that they, they're like, well, I didn't come here for, uh, a conversation about colonialism. I'm here for the climate. We had, you know, we had those kind of moments. Um, and at the same time, that is, you know, those are the conversations that we need to be having be, besides all the other tactics, um. That's, yeah, that I, that I think also come back to the project that we've been doing on solidarity is. It starts with talk, talking about these things, let's say, and thinking together about how to draw people into a conversation that might be uncomfortable, that might be, uh, painful at times.
But that's, I, I mean, I think it's, it's an important part of, of moving forward. There's so much more to talk about, but I think we're gonna have to move towards rounding up, but of course not. Before I ask, uh, all three of you, if there's something else you would like to share, um, before we close off, and also if there is a, a particular call to action or a particular hope, um, of moving forward and, and fostering solidarity in these times.
MICHAELA: Um, I, I'd just like to share that my, my call for action is for people to, um, really inform themselves of how the Zionist state is uh, operating in your own. Place wherever you're based. Um, you know, we have um, Israeli products on our shelves and supermarkets. We have a right and actually a duty to go in and remove those products and disrupt profiting of the, the Zionist machine when, when war crimes are being committed.
I think that we need to be reminded of our responsibility to do what we can. It's not only you've been to Palestine or you have this shared history, so that's why you're acting on it. No, it's not. It's our human responsibility to use our privilege and our, and our place of safety to do what we can to disrupt, um, war crimes from happening.
And I think that if we, just like a very light Google search will tell you, even though we're meant to also boycott Google. So yeah, we need to, it's everywhere. Um, but we'll tell you what, what you, what we should be boycotting for, for most effective impact. Um, and I think we should do all that we can to do that.
Um, I also organize a cycle for Palestine. Um, we cycle once a month around, uh, Belfast. And we do that in partnership with Gaza Sunbird, who are a power cycle team in Gaza. And there's cycles happening all over the world now, so I think that's another really tangible, um, thing that people can, can pick up and, and run with. And if it's not cycling, could it be running? Could it be walking? Could it be something that gets people together to talk, um, about these really important issues and to keep Palestine on all of our radars, whenever the dominant narrative is, is trying to sell silence and, and demonize it. We need to be twice as, as strong and as loud and, and keeping Palestine at our forefront.
RANA: As much as we care about us and Gaza people especially, and people in the West Bank that are facing very undercovered, reflecting and streaming, what's taking place now in the West Bank? Very hard stuff are taking place, but no journalists are allowed to film or to stream what's going on.
As, as much as I care about, um, my people and, uh, my, my family and my population to, uh, stay safe. I do ask each and every one of you to keep yourselves safe and, and really appreciate your, your lives and your voices because they are super important to us.
I always want you to be as, as safe and happy as, as you can because, um, not only for you, but you guys, but it's only for you being able to continue speaking about Palestine. This is the main call of action. Speak about Palestine. Don't forget about these people that are, they're not numbers. They are real humans that need your help and support and solidarity while being very careful, careful to yourselves, wellbeing, security, and safety.
Because we want you also to be safe. We want Palestine to be free and all of you being able to be there. I know that there are very much strict barriers and, Restrictions and measurements that are being taken, uh, against, uh, solidarity for Palestinian movements. So, and sometimes they cause harm, uh, to people.
We as Palestinians, were not happy of anybody Being harmed by whatsoever means to, to defend us and speak up for us. And we highly appreciate all efforts that have been done. Thank you for everything and, uh, we cannot ask a few much more even. Um, we highly appreciate every single word you say. Thank you.
LYLA: Thank you, Rana. Um, to wrap up, I, I often think of the words of Rachel Cory, and Rachel Cory was an American who was bulldozed to death by Israel. Right. And she, she said that we should drop everything and do something. And that comes back to that sense of urgency that Michaela was talking about.
That, that I think we do, we do need a sense of urgency. We do need to drop everything and do something. And, you know, I, I really believe though, in having a variety of, of strategies and approaches, right. And in people doing what they can, where they can, because, you know, and I've said this before in other forums, it's like, I, I can't stop the genocide.
But there are things that I can do in the spaces that I'm in right to, to kind of chip away, to, to try and make, make a change. And, and I think so many people are doing that. They are doing something. They're, they're joining a groundswell of voices calling for a free Palestine. They're making choices around who they vote for.
They're making consumer choices, right? About what they buy. And the boycott movement is having a, a huge impact right now on, on, on some key brands. Um, you know, so those choices do matter. And, and many groups, um, like we've done within, you know, the Atlantic Fellows, where we are banding together to influence how our institutions invest their money, because those investments often amount to many millions, and they can be funding.
The genocide and they can also be funding, uh, you know, climate breakdown and, and all of these other and, and related issues, right? So, so I think all of these actions that, that we take, you know, these things chip away at injustice, but it's, it's really slow going and the, the rate of killing just, just seems to ever increase.
And so maybe my final reflection is that, you know, solidarity to me is, um, it's also about holding each other up when, when the pain and the sadness and the frustration get too much and, and, and sometimes that is, uh, I, I guess just a really important role and feature of solidarity because that's what enables us to get up again tomorrow and to do it all over again and to keep, to keep moving forwards and, um, hoping for, uh, a positive change. Thank you.
Barbara: Thank you, thank you so much. And actually, that circles back to where we started a little bit, um, the importance of solidarity only to keep us going. Um, but of course, uh, whilst trying to dismantle oppressive systems and tackle root causes and, um, build, build a world that is better for everyone.
So thank you so much for being with us today, Rana, Lila, and Michaela, um, for sharing your, your wisdoms, your experiences, your feelings, your, your anger, your hopes. When it comes to solidarity in, especially in the face of violence and oppression of the Palestinian people, but also looking beyond, there are valuable lessons for anyone looking to foster or practice solidarity in these times.
Thank you again. Thank you for having and thank you listeners for joining us in today's episode. If you enjoyed, were touched, inspired by the conversation, please um, subscribe, leave a review and spread the word so more people can join. This really helps us. Also check out the resources in the show notes with more from Rana, Lyla, Michaela, and of course, watch this space for more inspiring episodes coming up.
Ciao.