Speaker 4

yeah, we were able to share how Jesus, just destroys shame, and how He sees you- Mm for who you really are, and how especially in a culture where women are sometimes seen as slightly lesser We were just able to share how God sees women as being of equal value to men and of being equal, children of Him, and just so loved and worthy of His love. And she ended up crying in front of us- Mm being like, "Oh, I just really, like, want to know more about Jesus," and she was telling us how she'd read the New Testament, and- yeah, we just had just such an amazing conversation. We were just honestly shocked.

Speaker 2

Hey, guys. Welcome back to Raw Mission, The podcast where we hear from

Ordinary men and women who have experienced the goodness of God and who have responded to His call and His command to take the good news to the least reached. I'm Matt, your host, and today I'm joined in the studio by Zach and Hannah, who earlier this summer joined me and several others on a trip to Pakistan.

Matt

Well, it's a real joy to have Hannah and Zach in the studio. Hi, guys. Welcome to the office. Welcome to the studio. It's great to see you again.

Zach

Great to be here.

Matt

And it's a little bit of a reunion for us, a mini reunion, because, we just spent some time traveling this summer together. we did this amazing week out in Pakistan. For me, first time back in 15 years. And for you guys, a different experience, and we're gonna hear all about that today. So let's start with a little bit of your own intro, your own background. Hannah, tell us something about, where you grew up, what kind of home you grew up in, and how you got interested in global mission and Muslims and things like that.

Speaker 4

Yeah. I grew up in a Christian home in the UK. gave my life to Jesus when I was 12. And then I got really interested in Middle Eastern history throughout school, and ended up doing a master's in Jerusalem. And there, I really enjoyed kind of the cross-cultural, experience, and meeting lots of people from different backgrounds and different beliefs, and had some really great conversations with some Muslims out there. And from that, I then ended up getting in connection with Frontiers. And then ended up volunteering for them at, the office, and I've been doing that for about a year. So I heard of the Pakistan trip through that, and then I was praying about it at a worship night one day at church. and I just really felt God pushing me to step out in faith and go. Um, did a classic sort of crying whilst worshiping moment, where I was like, "Okay, I think you're actually speaking to me, Lord." so- I ended up deciding to go on the Pakistan trip.

Matt

Yeah. And we're so glad you came, and it's been great having you volunteering here in the office, one day a week as well, while you've been studying at the same time, right?

Speaker 4

yeah. I study law at the moment, so yeah, training to be a lawyer, hopefully one day. God willing.

Matt

Yeah. Brilliant. And Zach, how about you? Give us a bit of your background as well.

Zach

So I also grew up in a Christian family, where mom is English and dad is Pakistani. and Dad actually came from a Muslim background, but came to faith in Jesus in his 20s. So similar to Hannah, I came to faith properly when I was about 18 years old, and began following Jesus then. and because of my dad's family background, I've always had the desire to reach out to Muslims. growing up, having Muslim friends, but also interactions with my family a lot, particularly with Pakistani Muslims.

Matt

And we met, what? A couple of years ago, was it, Zach, at a conference for student leaders called Forum here in the UK, which I love, and we're about to go to again, next week, aren't we? Well, this week. yeah, so you've been studying in London, right? What have you been studying?

Zach

Yes, so I've been studying at King's College London. I've been studying a course called International Development- which has been really great.

Matt

Awesome. yeah, so Hannah, Jerusalem, I mean, that's a pretty awesome city, interesting experience. did you have any troubles out there? Was it all plain sailing

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think I just generally sort of realized how much of a child I was, and that I was just, acted like a bit of an idiot quite a lot of the time, and actually had to be a bit more switched on and It was sort of pre the kind of Gaza-Israel conflict in 2023, but it was leading up to that, so you had to be quite aware of what was going on around you, in terms of sort of, yeah, bombings and, general tension in the city, which I think was really helpful in the conversations you had with people. people were so open to talk quite politically, but that also meant they were open to hearing about Jesus as well, and, So I think I was really blown away by that. similar to what happened in Pakistan, just really blown away by the openness of people. Mm-hmm.

Matt

Yeah. So we planned this trip, and there were nine of us all together going on the trip. and for you, Hannah, Pakistan compared to being in Jerusalem, it's a completely different world, isn't it?

Speaker 4

yeah, completely. I think in Jerusalem I could sort of wear fairly normal clothes still. and my interactions with different genders were still quite normal to me. Mm whereas in Pakistan I could treat women very much like how I treat women around the rest of the world. But when I was speaking to men, I just was quite aware that that felt very different and there was a lot of respect for one another on the one hand, like, of not sort of like looking right into each other's eyes and that sort of thing. but also, yeah, a lot more kind of conservative dress, wearing our, scarves over our head sometimes when we went into mosques or when we went into specific, more conservative areas. but then also there were struggles with just sort of being stared at the whole time. Mm. There were, yeah, lots of stares. I sadly experienced some inappropriate touching at one point. but other than that, it was mainly just, stares and sort of getting used to kind of how that kind of worked. But yeah, I think God really wowed me though, and just changed kind of my view from the start to the end of the trip 'cause I think at the start I was feeling very- Angry and, kind of upset by how I felt I was being treated by men. I finished the trip feeling just so released from that and actually having a lot of love for the men around me. And yeah, there was this beautiful moment towards the end where I was feeling quite upset on the street one time, and this lovely elderly gentleman just, pulled up this stool for me and, offered me a seat and offered to get me, some water and, was trying to show me the nearest pharmacy. And I was like: "No, I'm actually fine. I just, like, need a moment." But yeah, that was just amazing- for God to just give me that experience and be like, "These are my people. These are the people I love." that really helped me love them as well. Mm.

Matt

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. it's definitely one of the big challenges of many places around the world. It's not unique to the Muslim world. There are many places around the world, of course, where, women have difficulties, you know, where the gender interactions are inappropriate and that kind of stuff. But South Asia is quite well known, for, women having to be quite careful, and to dress more modestly than other parts of the world sometimes. but even if you're utterly respectful of the culture, some of these things can happen. And it was hard to see you go through that moment on the trip, but amazing to see how God just redeemed that in you, through the trip as well. you came out with a really, positive love for that nation, which was special. Thanks for sharing that. we might come onto more of that later, as we discuss some of the, the overall feelings of, yeah, life out there in Pakistan. But why don't you, Zach, just give us a rough outline of what were we doing? Why did we go? What was the plan? and how did it all sort of start off once we landed there?

Zach

Yeah. So for me, it wasn't actually the first time that I'd been to Pakistan. I went a couple of years ago working with an organization there, which was kind of my opportunity to sort of explore this passion for Muslims that God has put on my heart. But when I went out there, I actually found it really challenging in a lot of ways, particularly when it came to the language, and when it came to eating the different types of foods that my body wasn't used to, and I kind of learnt a lot about myself, a lot of the things that struggled with whilst I was there. so this experience was kind of, for me, a chance to redeem my experience of Pakistan. so for this short-term trip, was a chance for all of us to kind of explore what Pakistan was like, what life in Pakistan looks like, what the Muslims are like there, what the Christians are like there. Mm. And kind of just experiencing all of the culture itself. interacting with people, talking with people on the streets, praying for towns in Pakistan, praying for cities over Pakistan, which was really, really encouraging. And it was kind of encouraging to see that we all came from very different backgrounds. Obviously, myself coming from a Pakistani background. Some of us had been on other short-term trips in other Muslim countries before, and some of us had never been on short-term trips at all,

Matt

'Cause it was what, about a year ago, you went on a short-term prayer trip into Turkey as well?

Zach

Yes, yeah. So that was my first kind of exploring God's calling for my life, to go to the nations, to go to other Muslim countries, and it was absolutely incredible. where we were going around towns, praying for the towns, talking with people on the streets. So we sort of had similar expectations for this trip.

Matt

Yeah, definitely. All right. yeah, Hannah, so What did we do when we were in the big cities, and what were some of your highlights from those times?

Speaker 4

Yeah. So we started in Islamabad, in the capital city, and we spent most of the first day sort of just exploring a little bit. I went to a shopping center, um, then we headed to the mosque later in the evening. And one of the other girls on the trip with me, we actually decided to kind of intentionally walk round the mosque seven times, um, just pray over, over that mosque as people were coming in and wandering around, washing and, going in to pray. once it was time to go and pray, the guys on the team went into the mosque. and then we stayed outside, us three ladies, and just sort of watched the women as they were praying just outside. then once prayers were over, three ladies actually came over to us and we were able to have a conversation, and they spoke, fluent English, which was amazing, 'cause none of us could speak Urdu. that was just a beautiful conversation to happen on the very first night as well. one of the ladies was planning to move to Germany, and she was really interested in kind of Western culture and that sort of thing. And then through that, we were able to ask her some questions about kind of her faith and about Islam, and she asked us whether we were Muslims. and then we told them that we're actually followers of Jesus. And that then led to a really great conversation just about kind of morality. We asked her whether she felt, God answered any of her prayers recently. Mm. We asked her if God could do a miracle in her life, what that miracle would be. and she said things like, you know, cohesion for her family, but also, like, safe trip to Germany and that sort of thing. And, that then led to a chance for us to pray for her and for her two friends as well. and yeah, it was just a wonderful gentle introduction that God gave us into kind of chatting to people, and gave us so much confidence- step out in faith and chat to women further on in the trip as well, because we actually came across so many women who could speak English or who just wanted to chat to us. I think also we had the question of, do people actually even wanna talk to us? Like, in the UK Mm-hmm whenever I've done evangelism with strangers before, it's been really scary and no one's really, wanted to be that into the talking about Jesus and that sort of thing. but yeah, there, people just came up to us and we quite quickly Mm-hmm often got into conversations about faith. So, that was really encouraging.

Matt

Yeah. I think in the taxi ride, actually, when we came out of the airport- Mm we jumped in different, maybe a couple of taxis. And on the way to the hotel, I spent, I think, half an hour chatting with the driver about faith. He was a Shia Muslim. He was telling us all these crazy stories about, the early history of Islam and some pretty interesting things I'd never heard about before. But it is so easy. they love to talk. They love to talk about faith out there. And yeah, I think that was something for all of us, wasn't it? All the way through the trip. Mm. It was just very easy, to get into conversations with people. Yeah. What about for you, Zach? I certainly remember big crowds of young guys around you chatting away- in some of the busy areas.

Zach

Yeah, it was such an interesting night, that particular night, where we'd been traveling all day. We'd gone to the restaurant and I just remember being absolutely exhausted, hungry, tired. All I wanna do is just go to bed right now. and then I remember you sort of mentioning to me, "Oh, should we go out onto the streets?" And I was kinda like, "Oh, yeah, I guess I have to say yes then." this is what, this is what we're here to do. Yeah, true. but it was just one of those incredible moments of how God uses us in our weakness. Like, His power is made perfect in our weakness. Because as we go out into the street with this big group of us, we just see crowds and crowds and crowds gather into this courtyard, and it literally, it felt like we were walking around in New Testament times when we're walking in the marketplaces, speaking Jesus into people's lives, and they're gathering around and gathering around, wanting to hear more and more. and me and my friend bumped into a few guys who spoke great English. And again, it's another way of how God uses humor and jokes and stuff to actually really build a connection and really build a bond between guys. Mm. So we just had a great time with these guys, just laughing and joking and talking about life. And they then invited us up for a meal at this restaurant. So we went and, basically spent three or four hours chatting with them, Asking them about what Islam means to them, asking them about what they live their lives for, what's important, what's not important, how do they get to paradise, what does that look like? And it was so cool seeing how God was just leading our conversations and prompting thought after thought in myself I was speaking things where I was like, "I don't even know how this is coming out," but God is just providing the wisdom again and again. and eventually after we'd asked all of these questions, they then began to reciprocate the questions and ask us, "So what do you guys believe in? So what does the Bible teach about this? So what does Jesus say about the way into heaven?" And we then got opportunity to be able to share the gospel with these guys and be able to share, "Look, this is what Jesus teaches. This is the way to heaven. He is the truth, the way, and the life." We got to share our own personal testimonies as well about how we've come to faith, how we've come to know Jesus, what he's done in our lives, and it was really inspiring to see their hearts just opening up to this. we eventually ended the conversation by just saying, "Look," I said to these guys, I said, "Why don't you guys pray for us, and then we can then pray for you?" And it was a real bond of like- Solidarity between us, but we also know as believers there's power over the words that we're speaking and there's particularly power over the prayers that we're doing over these people. And we're in this big restaurant just speaking out the name of Jesus in prayer, and everyone else around this restaurant is just looking at us like, "What are these guys doing?" Yeah. but it was incredible and a real moment where we just came away rejoicing of like, "Wow." Mm. "God, we did not expect to encounter anyone tonight. We just wanted to get some rest and that's it, but you had different plans," and He is good.

Matt

So good, yeah. There were so many times, weren't there? We were just buzzing going back to the hotel and saying, "Oh, wow, what amazing conversations." and often things we hadn't planned, like you said. Yeah. You know, uh, kind of feel like the day's done. This was a travel day or whatever. So many times the Lord just redirected us. And that wasn't just on the day, it was like from city to city. We thought- Yeah "Okay, we're gonna head up to this mountain, meet a bunch of tourists who go up this, this amazing mountain lake where I wanted to take you guys and show you," but no, the police were all over us in that province, in KPK. "No, you need this permission, you need that permission, and you can't stay here, you can't go there." And we're like, "Okay, fine." So we had to redirect. Mm. But the Lord had so many of these conversations you're talking about ready for us in the place we hadn't planned to go to. That was definitely a highlight for me. Okay, yeah, so there were these visits to big mosques where we got into conversations. There were the conversations with people just on the streets, Mm without anything planned, we weren't giving out literature or anything like that. We just, people are so friendly and they love meeting foreigners. for you, I mean, you look like you're a Pakistani. Was it difficult where they sort of assumed you speak Urdu and so on, Zach?

Zach

yeah, a little bit. So people would obviously come up to me speaking Urdu, and my Urdu is very basic. Very basic. And I struggled with that obviously in the years that I've been going to Pakistan. Mm. but for these guys, it was just encouraging. And even just the slight little bits of Urdu that I would know would bring such a connection. So there was one phrase that I learned, which was to say, "What football team do you support?" and how God used that was just incredible, we would just go into this conversation about football. Somehow we don't really know each other's language- but we can bond over that, and then they're able to ask the question, "So what are you actually here for?" And then that's the real opening of being able to share Jesus with them.

Matt

Yeah. And I think people assume that a country like Pakistan, which is an Islamic republic and often is in the news for the wrong reason, for violence and difficult things, um, or political troubles, you sort of assume we can't speak freely about Jesus in a place like that. But it's not true. It's actually, like you said, really easy to do that. Yeah. And people are so open, and they hardly ever met a follower of Jesus like you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and there are minority Christians in the country, but they're so few. and many of them don't have the confidence to talk either. Mm-hmm. certainly on the streets like that. Yeah. Hannah, what else did we get up to? Do you wanna talk about our- Yeah other trip up to the mountains?

Speaker 4

Yeah. I actually think something that's just come to mind was, when we were on this minibus driving, from Islamabad up north, and, we just started worshiping. We just started singing on this public bus. Mm. and just singing praises to God and singing blessings over Pakistan and the land. And the people who were in the minibus with us were obviously just looking at us like we were crazy. And it was one of those moments where you just think, "Wow, we are clearly looking so weird right now," but we just do not care because we're just praising the one and only God. Mm. And just feel so filled with joy for him and filled with, enthusiasm to share him and share, like, his goodness and his love- Mm with these people. And out of that came con- a couple of conversations, I think, in the bus where some of the guys were asking, some of our guys on the trip, "Oh, you know, what are you singing about?" Or, Mm what's going on?" And, one of the guys on the trip who could speak Urdu was able to share that we were talking about Jesus, and that we were blessing them and the land of Pakistan. And- one of them responded really well to that. I mean, all I could see were just smiles from this guy's face. But, yeah, the guy on our team, told us about it later and said that, yeah, it was clearly a, wow moment for him, where he hadn't really ever heard anybody singing about Jesus. But yeah, hadn't really heard about Jesus outside of the Quran before. So it's just those opportunities to kind of share in quite a radical way for me definitely. Like, I'd never kind of experienced, that kind of confidence to kind of do something like that before, and it just shows, the power of the Holy Spirit when you're in- Yeah a place that you don't know and you're kind of scared, and then the Holy Spirit just gives you this boldness to do that, and it's just beautiful seeing God's love, like-

Matt

Mm

Speaker 4

work that way.

Matt

Yeah. And we had a Pakistani Christian with us at that point, and even he was just so encouraged by what he was seeing. Um- Mm. And one of his comments at the end of the trip was, "Is this Pakistan?" I hardly remember this as the Pakistan of my youth," 'cause he just felt that the atmosphere has changed a bit over the years, and people are really open right now, which is great.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Would you also like to share, Matt, about how you felt the atmosphere had changed or stayed the same? Mm. 'Cause obviously this was, what, many, many years after you'd- Yeah worked out there, and kind of your experiences in Hill Lodge and well, seeing places where you've been before and stayed before.

Matt

Yeah. Thanks. Um, I mean, going back after 15 years was such a joy for me, such a privilege in so many ways. And this wasn't a memory lane trip. It wasn't planned like that. This was designed for you guys, who were new in the country. But again, part of, I think, God redirecting us was, we just came a- across people who were connected to people I knew in the past. so many little moments. On a snack stand with an old guy whose cousin had been killed in a terrorist attack, that I knew people, in and I just was able to thank him and say, "Please send our love to your family because your cousin died in that attack protecting, s- in a sense, our children." Um, not my personal children, but the missionary community's children and so on. So little moments like that, that just, how on earth did we meet this guy? It was so random and such a God thing. That was very precious for me. And, and going back to some of the places I used to live in and work in and, yeah, it was very, very special. And I think, yeah, having you guys alongside me, for me, a little bit of a closure tour, thinking back on so many years living out there. Yeah. But just praying that a new generation of workers might come in the future, whether some of you guys or others in the future. That was a big part of some of those prayer times, wasn't it? Mm. That new laborers would come for Pakistan and, just bring good news wherever they go, and bring that joy that you were just talking about. So yeah, it was really, really precious, traveling to some of those areas. whether it had been the earthquake area, 'cause we did, we went up to the mountains a little bit, and that was where I lived and worked during the earthquake response time in 2005. yeah, tell us, Zach, about that evening in the hotel, where we came across those Pashtuns

Zach

Yeah. So we'd essentially met this group of Pashtuns earlier in that day, and they'd just loved this interaction with us and invited us for a meal, all nine of us, to pay for it, which was pretty ridiculous, but incredible. So we had a meal, enjoyed a meal with all of these guys, enjoyed some great conversations, and then afterwards we all sat outside in the garden together whilst the girls were inside sort of praying over us, um, which was really great. And we just, got to share stories. That's all it was about, is us just asking them questions and questions, And then after we'd asked them these questions and they'd shared stories with us-

Matt

Yeah, 'cause didn't they tell us all these stories about AK-47s- Yeah and weddings and shooting- in the air and all the bullets coming down and that sort of stuff, and people getting injured. They were just talking about Pashtun culture- Yeah and gun culture and revenge and violence, and it was a fascinating cultural experience for us.

Zach

Yeah. Yeah, it was really great. it was awesome hearing these stories and So then Matt was able to then speak to them and say, "Look, we've actually got a story to share," and pointed to one of our team members, who then began sharing the story of the prodigal son in English. And as he shared it in English, Matt would then translate to them in Urdu. and we were able to just sit there together, just listening to this story, listening to Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, and hearing about how his father had his arms wide open for that son. and it was just an amazing moment of being able to share, share something of, the Bible, but share something of Jesus with these guys, Especially with these guys that came from the tribal areas near Afghanistan, where they would never interact with these kind of people or never hear these kind of stories before. So it was really, really encouraging to see.

Matt

And what I love about it as well is these days, we can just exchange WhatsApp numbers. Yeah. So we're still in touch with these guys. Actually, almost daily, I still get a little message from them and yeah, it's really nice to still be able to just be in touch with some of these guys we met on the trip. It was a powerful night, wasn't it? Yeah. It was really special- Yeah sitting at night in the garden, sharing the stories, the parables, and we'd been preparing parables, hadn't we? We'd all trying to think of a parable we might be able to use on the trip.

Zach

Yeah.

Matt

Which was cool.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Matt

the great thing is we seemed to meet people from all over Pakistan. And Hannah, one of those people we met, who was sort of doing their own tourism was a Punjabi lady. Tell us about that night, 'cause that was a powerful night.

Speaker 4

Yeah. So this was our, um, second day in Murree, a tourist town maybe a couple of hours north of Islamabad, and we sort of started that evening praying all together, and one of our team members shared, an image and, a word, and a Bible passage actually, that, someone from our support group back home had shared with them. which was incredible just first, having an amazing support group praying for us. And not only having that, but also having people from our support group share images with us- Yeah that God had given them in dreams the night before. Like- Mm this was, some serious work that God was clearly doing- Mm through our supporters. and it was incredible to see. I think they'd actually drawn a sketch of what they'd seen- And they, yeah yeah, in the dream. Yeah. They'd drawn a sketch of what they'd seen in the dream, and they described it to us, like the dream, throughout. So yeah, one of our team members shared this with us that night before we went out. We were praying together as a team, and it was a sketch of sort of an external staircase next to a building. And they had sort of said, "Oh, I feel like God's saying that there's a lady who is seeking, down this sort of dark alley staircase kind of area, in the town that you're currently in." And so we prayed over this dream, and we had a couple of passages and words come to us as team members, about sort of starting in the center of the town, and just, like being faithful and following where God was leading. So we got an image of being in the center in the kind of post office building area. And so we set out, and we headed towards the post office. We went up the steps, and we looked out over the town, and then we just prayed as we were at the top of those steps. And various people got images of, the signs down like one of these particular roads. And then someone had a word to go to that sign and then ask the shopkeeper in the shop opposite about the image. So we had the image, the drawing with us that this supporter had shared with us. So we went to this sign. We went to the shop, and as the guys went in to go and show the image to the shopkeeper, us girls sat on the steps next to the shop. And we suddenly realized we were on an external staircase down this sort of darkened alley. And we were like, "Oh my goodness," like, "What's going on, Lord? Are we, and then Matt said, "Oh, there's a cafe up there." Like, I think you should go up to the cafe." And so we went up to the cafe- And we saw this lady sitting at a table with two other people, and she just turned to us and gave us the biggest smile. And so we thought, "Right, okay. she's clearly welcomed us in, so let's go and sit right next to her." Mm. So we sat right next to her on the table, and we started having a chat with her about, what all our names meant, and luckily, that kind of led to a, a conversation where we could sort of bring in Jesus a bit. And we were able to actually kind of almost immediately share who Jesus was. only to then find that her friends then spoke to her and she had to turn away, and then we thought, "Oh, no. Like, maybe we've brought it up all too soon. Maybe we've ruined this. Like, what are we doing, Lord?" Um, we were all feeling a bit, like, anxious and, yeah, just so classically human about it all. And then she turned back, and her friends actually left to go shopping for a bit, so that just gave us a massive opportunity to then share a Bible passage with her. She shared with us her favorite story from the Quran about, the angel Gabriel coming down to Mary and telling her about Jesus. Mm. And we were able to share, the story of when Jesus healed the woman who had been bleeding for 12 years. Mm. And so we gave her an Urdu copy of that on our phones, and then we read her favorite story from the Quran. And then after a while, we exchanged, thoughts on them, basically. And yeah, we were able to share how Jesus, just destroys shame, and how He sees you- Mm for who you really are, and how especially in a culture where women are sometimes seen as slightly lesser or, yeah, there's just a lot of tension between how women are viewed and... We were just able to share how God sees women as being of equal value to men and of being equal, children of Him, and just so loved and worthy of His love. And she ended up crying in front of us- Mm being like, "Oh, I just really, like, want to know more about Jesus," and she was telling us how she'd read the New Testament, and- yeah, we just had just such an amazing conversation. We were just honestly shocked. We were shocked that she'd read the New Testament. And to begin with, we didn't actually believe her, which was pretty rude of us, but We just didn't really believe her. And then obviously, it was clear that she had, 'cause she, knew a few stories from it, and she clearly had been quite hit by Jesus' love, and particularly in this moment when we were able to pray for her as well afterwards. she had her hands out. She had tears streaming down her face- and smiling just so broadly. Ah, we're just so thankful to you, Lord, for that time. That was just such an incredible conversation to have with her. and then her- Friends came back just before we were actually going to pray for her actually. So we were a bit worried that we wouldn't be able to pray with her., But then they had to go back out again to go and get something else. So then we were again able to have this, like, time of prayer. So God just timed it all just so perfectly. Mm. And yeah, just led to a fantastic conversation with that lady. And she... Oh my gosh, I missed out something amazing as well. Her friend, she's actually reading the New Testament with her friend who is a Christian- Oh, yeah down in Islamabad, and she meets up with her every Sunday and does that. Mm. And so not only were we able to share a bit of Jesus with her, we also discovered that she was already being discipled by somebody. Mm. Which was, yeah, incredible to see. Yeah. And we've been sending her some WhatsApp. things since then as a group of girls-

Matt

Yeah

Speaker 4

which has also been amazing. So, yeah.

Matt

So good. Yeah, it's just that partnership between what God's already doing in someone through Punjabi Christians out there, and then bringing you guys to meet her through that incredible dream, then the picture, then us seeking the Lord, where do we go in the town? We don't know where to go. Where are these steps we're supposed to look for? It was incredible. And at the same time, so we guys went up a few minutes afterwards, right? yeah, pick up the story from our perspective, Zach.

Zach

Yeah. So we'd obviously gone up. Even just seeing this interaction was absolutely incredible, and actually brought me to tears afterwards where I was just like- Mm "Hallelujah, God. You are so good for preparing every single. Good work in advance for us. so we're sat at a table a little bit further away, just praying as guys. Mm. And then I see a table next to me, and I start praying over that table and say, "God, I pray that you would just bring people into this table." And as we're praying and as I'm praying, we see two guys that then walk in and come and sit at that table. And I was like, oh, great. Thank you, Lord."

Matt

I didn't know you were praying there.

Zach

Yeah. And then at the same time, as I'm praying that, Matt goes over and just starts talking to these guys. Mm. and I was like, "Wow, he is just like, he is in tune with the Spirit." and I then got- I'm just,

Matt

I'm just friendly. I don't know about that.

Zach

Yeah. But I then got to go and join this conversation with these two guys, and the entire conversation- Mm was in Urdu, but Matt was just incredible. You were incredible with how you were animating these stories and how, even though everything was in Urdu, I was still able to follow along and understand what was going on. But- Mm obviously you can share of, the conversations with these guys and the background that they came from as well, which was just- Yeah incredible.

Matt

Yeah, I sat down, started chatting to them. You know, they're so hospitable, of course. They're like, "Yeah, do sit, do sit. Do you want to eat with us but soon turned out they were from a place called Waziristan, which is real tribal areas. I mean, that's way out there along the border with Af-Afghanistan. and I was amazed, like, "Oh, you guys are just, yeah, traveling. It's quite rare to meet someone from Waziristan, so you're Pashtun also." and as we got chatting, I can't remember how it came into the conversation, but at some point I mentioned the Injeel, the Gospel. And the guy there just said, "Oh, I've been reading the Injeel." And literally my jaw just dropped. I was like, "What? How have you been reading the Injeel?" Like, what? How, in Waziristan, how is anyone... I was so nonplussed. I was so confused, like, this is amazing. And he just said, "Oh yeah, I listen to this thing called Pashto Radio, and it's really good, and it tells stories from the Gospels and so on." And I just thought, that's just incredible. This guy's found a radio app on his phone. He listens to basically, you know, something that the workers must have produced years ago. Um, and he's on a journey. and yeah, we've had lots of conversations since over WhatsApp since we've been back in the UK. And yeah, it's been great. even this week, his dad sent a message to me, "Oh, I was so happy my son has got to know someone who can talk with him and share things about faith and life with him." And it was so cause most Pashtuns, they're very strict Muslims. it's the most strict part of Pakistan in terms of Islam, right? And he said, "Yeah, no, I, I don't like a lot of what Islam is teaching in that part of our country, and the, the mullahs are too strict, the imams are way too strict. I don't like it. I think there's something different we need to understand about God," and so on. And I, I was like, "Wow, this guy is really open." and that was really powerful. Yeah, so the Lord had led us to that particular cafe on that night to meet the lady you guys spoke to, the girls all spoke to, and then these two guys who we got to meet, and we were just, yeah, buzzing when we went back to the hotel, weren't we?

Speaker 4

Yeah, absolutely buzzing.

Matt

Very cool.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Matt

and the fact that I suppose it was the very same location where a couple of nights earlier you'd had that interaction where it really stressed you out, and it was really uncomfortable- Yeah and difficult, and the Lord just redeemed so much of that- Yeah yeah um, through those experiences. Mm. Yeah. It was very cool. Good. now at the end of our time in that town, Zach started to feel a bit of the dodgy stomach, which is not unknown to those of us who've lived in South Asia. Yeah. What happened there, Zach?

Zach

I think it was just classic. I knew it was gonna happen because as I mentioned, two years before when I went to Pakistan, that was one of the biggest things that I struggled with, was- Mm constant food poisoning and food poisoning. Mm. And last time I, I kept getting food poisoning, and then I thought, "I've had enough of this Pakistani food. It's making my body sick. Let me go to KFC." And then I got more food poisoning from the KFC, which was even worse. Oh. So this time I was a lot more on guard when it came to the food, and I was like, "I'm not having any of the curry. I'm not having any of these foods. I'm just gonna stick with just simple, the most English foods I can possibly find." And everyone on the trip was like, "Come on, you're in Pakistan. Make the most of this experience." and somehow I still managed to be the first person that got sick, so- Mm that was kind of funny but also frustrating at the same time.

Matt

Yeah. Yeah, it was a rough couple of days for you, and it included traveling as well. We had to get on a bus, go down a couple hours back down to the capital. So yeah, we felt bad for you, definitely. And n- no one likes being sick, especially when you're a long way away from home. You're not quite sure what the facilities are like or where you're gonna be staying the next night. But as you reflect back on that time, do you feel, God was sort of teaching you anything or just, I don't know, giving you a bit more of a reality check of life out there, reminding you of some of the hardships?

Zach

Yeah. Yeah, I think that was exactly it, of a bit of a reality check that I came to the trip with expectations of, if I come to this country, I don't ever wanna be sick, ever in my entire life. And if I potentially move to this country later on in life, I don't ever wanna be ill or sick. But God just reminded me like, these things do happen and it's okay. But it was a real blessing to be surrounded around a team that showed such love and such grace, that really just encouraged me massively,

Matt

Yeah. And Hannah, you had a, a bit of sickness too, didn't you, later on?

Speaker 4

Yeah. I feel like it's one of those things that you just look back on now and just sort of laugh and Zach's actually laughing at me right now. And we actually played paddle though the night before I got ill. Yes. And Zach literally played paddle and he was really quite ill, which was quite impressive actually. So-

Hannah

That's

Speaker 4

true so yeah. And then yeah, after paddle, me and one of the other girls, we sort of felt all right, but then yeah, we woke up in the morning feeling really awful and yeah, just- Mm constantly having to visit the bathroom, interchanging as well, because it was- Mm just one bathroom obviously. So we got to know each other really well. But we're really good friends now, so it's all, it's all for the good. So yeah. What can we say?

Matt

Yeah. it's always rough. Sometimes on a short-term trip you get away with it. Um, if you live out somewhere like that longer term, you're definitely gonna have some times Yeah, with a bit of sickness. You do learn to adjust to it a bit. but yeah, I'm glad you said that you felt the team came around and were really, you know, encouraging and supportive. Mm-hmm. 'Cause for me, that was one of the massive highlights of this trip. the camaraderie, the unity, the laughter, but the supporting one another as well when some of the guys- Mm were down and down and out with sickness or whatever.

Speaker 4

Yeah. I think that was particularly, like, prominent for me as well. Like, when we were sick, how much people looked after us and went out to go and get stuff for us and- Mm yeah, support us through that. And I think also just, like, the team unity, how everyone had something to bring and, God has given us all gifts, and that was just so obvious on the team. He'd just given us different personalities- Mm different spiritual gifts. Like, something that everyone had to bring to the team and everyone could bring, to any kind of situation, which was wonderful. And just how we got to know each other pretty quickly and pray quite personally over one another quite quickly. Mm. That's so fundamental and so central to, yeah, having a successful trip and just being in step with God. and just, yeah, as a woman on the team as well, just having the guys being really supportive of, of us and, like, listening to us and really kind of gathering round us, like, physically when we were on the street. Mm. Just that sense of protection was amazing and something like I've never experienced before in my life. So yeah, I think God just provided such an amazing team and yeah, just so thankful for that on this trip as well. Yeah.

Zach

yeah. For me personally, this trip was a real encouragement, and Obviously, coming away from having a quite a poor experience, I thought to myself, "God, I don't wanna come back to this country. This is not the one for me." And then over the past year, God's just been stirring this fire in my heart for this nation. and that's why when I heard about this trip happening, I thought, "Let's take a step of faith. Let's go on it. Let's have a good experience of, of going to this country." And it's been a really, really awesome experience. And I think for me, it's just to figure out in the coming years where God is leading me, where He's prompting me, and whether He's calling me to go to this nation long term. and that's gonna be a wrestle I know- go and there are gonna be things that I've gotta let go of and things that I might need to sacrifice, but I know that He has good plans and that He's, like I said, prepared these good works in advance for us to do. I think one thing particularly that stirs me is even just having a Pakistan identity card, meaning that I can go in and out the country without having to have a visa, was a real gift and a real like, okay, God, you've given me a golden ticket to get to this country. I might as well use it. And particularly when we met the long-term workers out there, and they shared about some of their struggles with visa applications and with getting kicked out of the country and those sorts of things.

Matt

Definitely. Hannah, what about you?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think it was amazing to meet some of the long-term workers actually. I think... So I was actually ill for the first, long-term worker family we met, um, so I didn't get to go and meet them. But then amazingly, we ended up meeting another family of long-term workers, which was totally unplanned. But it's another one of those- Yeah crazy things on this trip, where all of a sudden it was like, "Oh, we can go and do this," and, "Yeah, let's do that," and have that conversation. So yeah, on the last day, we went to go meet this family, and I think what struck me the most was that I loved everything that the family shared with us, but then there was a single lady living above them, who was, who knew them, like was very close to them, and she came down from her flat. And she shared a bit about her, kind of, path to Pakistan and how that had all worked, and I just found that so inspiring and hard-hitting 'cause... But in a good way. because I think we're about the same age. And I just felt that we'd had similar triggers. We both sat there, age sort of 14, watching, things that were happening in the world at that time, really sad things about ISIS and, yeah, things that happened in Egypt at that time between ISIS and the Egyptian government and the churches there in particular and the Coptic community. And yeah, we both spoke about that story, and how that sort of was the beginning of God leading us to, look into the Muslim world more and, connect with Muslims, like just on a very kind of starter level. and then for her to then say that she studied a master's, and then continued that master's a bit in Pakistan, and then started learning Pashto, and then ended up, yeah, being a worker out there, with this family and joining their team, and how that sort of steppingstone process with the Lord happened for her- Mm I found so encouraging for myself, 'cause I feel like I'm very much on a, kind of a steppingstone process with God right now, I can see the next steppingstone, but then I can't see the stones after that. And I think that's quite a prominent image for me at the moment, and the way she described her journey, I sort of felt, yeah, just super encouraged actually. It's okay that we don't know the next steppingstones ahead, because he's totally in control of that plan, and totally just got that pathway laid out for us already. so yeah, even though I'm not quite sure what is gonna happen with my law studies, I definitely feel like God's gonna use that law in the future on the field somewhere, I think. But I don't know in what kind of way, and I think that's kind of the excitement and the beauty of our journey with God though, isn't it? Like, we just don't know. Yeah. We've just gotta trust him.

Matt

Definitely. And the good thing about meeting the long-term workers there is You can imagine yourself because you've seen a single girl who's made it out there- Yeah and is living out there and learning the language, and we've met families who've done it with kids and so on. So at whatever stage of life you might end up in before you go, if that is what God has for you, you now can at least picture someone out on the field who's been there ahead of you- Yeah and done it before you. Yeah. Which is great. Guys, this has been awesome. it's I can't believe the time has flown, but, thanks for coming in today. Thanks for joining me on the podcast in the studio. I hope that this will be really encouraging for those out there who are thinking, "Yeah, could I do this? Could I do a short-term trip? Could I end up long term in the Muslim world?" And we do several trips each year, so do many other organizations, and we would encourage our listeners, wouldn't we? Students out there- Yeah or folks further on. perhaps their kids have left home, gone off to university. Maybe you guys out there also could do a short-term trip and explore the Muslim world, and think about going one day yourself, to where the gospel is most needed, To where there's least access to the gospel, where people really don't know much about Jesus. Great. Mm. Thanks for being with us today, guys.

As we close, I want to offer you a gift. It's an invitation to come and join in with the mission of God. Remember the Lord asks in Isaiah: Who will go? Whom shall I send? Well, could it be you? Might you be willing to lay it all down? To give up everything for the one who gave up everything for you? To join one of our teams in the Gulf, in Africa, in Asia, the Balkans or the Caucuses, or to support some of our work through prayer or finances. If your heart is stirred to respond, you can email me anytime, matt@frontiers.org.uk And here's a great quote to end with from Hudson Taylor, "An easygoing, non-self-denying life will never be one of power. Fruit bearing involves cross bearing. God bless, and do join us next time for some more inspirational and challenging stories from some of the toughest parts of the world