31. Save Money & Time with Creative Briefs with Mary Czarnecki

I work with so many people who were hesitant to hire outside creatives, contractors, or freelancers for one reason: They didn't know how to manage them.

A big part of a successful relationship with outsourced help is the perfect creative brief.

In this episode, I’m talking to Mary Czarnecki, a MAC Marketing Partners marketing consultant who creates PERFECT creative briefs for her clients. She tells us how she builds creative briefs that save her clients money and time because projects get done right the first time.

You can grab her template here: https://tinymarketing.me/brief

Show notes: https://tinymarketing.me/ep31

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Transcript

Transcript: How to write the perfect creative brief

[00:00:00] Sarah Noel Block: If you are a freelancer or a creative, then you have inevitably gotten a terrible brief. You get it and you're like, oh, what the hell is this? What do you want from me? And. How do I get this done right the first time when there's no clear direction? And if you are a solo entrepreneur or a strategist or a marketer and you work with creatives, then you're likely putting together these briefs and you're not a hundred percent sure what they should look like.

[00:00:32] Sarah Noel Block: What makes a creative brief success? Now, today I'm talking to Mary Zarnecki and she is an amazing marketing consultant. She is a strategist, a speaker, a business advisor, a corporate trainer, a course creator with Mac Marketing Partners, and. Better yet, she's going to be teaching us how to create the perfect creative brief with the right creative brief.

[00:00:59] Sarah Noel Block: You are [00:01:00] going to save money, you are going to save time, and you are going to end up with a successful project. So dang, you're gonna wanna listen to this episode, trust me on this. Stay tuned.

[00:01:15] Sarah Noel Block: Hello, and welcome to Tiny Marketing. I'm Sarah No Block and I teach small marketing departments that are tired of feeling overwhelmed and under-resourced. How to build and manage effective and efficient marketing strategies that work for them. Get ready. It's time to dig in and get a big impact with your tiny team.

[00:01:40] Mary Czarnecki: Hi, I'm Mary Czarnecki. I just forget the C is there and my last name, and it becomes pretty phonetic. I am a marketing strategist, speaker, business advisor and coach, and my podcast is Sticky Note Marketing. And really my goal in my business and in my podcast is to share what's working now in marketing in a [00:02:00] way that allows business owners and marketing leaders to take action in a simplified but strategic.

[00:02:06] Mary Czarnecki: So what's working now small enough to fit on a sticky note. 

[00:02:10] Sarah Noel Block: I love that. I did not realize that that was the reason that you, it's kind of like tiny marketing in that let's just focus on what's working . Exactly, exactly. So what kind of customers do you typically work with? 

[00:02:25] Mary Czarnecki: So typically the folks I'm working with fall into two camps.

[00:02:28] Mary Czarnecki: One are small to medium sized businesses that the, either the owner or one of the marketing leaders is looking for additional help. Sometimes it's hard to figure out. What we should do in a vacuum. So I provide business advisory services, coaching and consulting for them. And then I also still work with, uh, large corporate enterprise organizations, their marketing teams, specifically training and upskilling their teams on everything from customer-centric marketing to creative briefs.

[00:02:59] Sarah Noel Block: Yes, and [00:03:00] that's what we'll be talking about today is creative briefs. I was on your podcast not long ago and we started talking about creative briefs, and I'm like, okay, girl, I need to have to have you on mine so we can dig in deep about creative briefs because it. Saves you so much time and money. If you're giving the contractor exactly what you need, you have a plan there in place and no one's left guessing

[00:03:25] Sarah Noel Block: I think that's where the problems come in is if you are like, I think they mean this, but a brief really identifies that. 

[00:03:33] Mary Czarnecki: No, exactly. I mean, creative partners are incredibly talented. We're hiring them for their zone of genius, but if we don't give them the right ask, if we don't actually help them understand what it is we're looking for, we're kind of putting them at a disadvantage.

[00:03:48] Mary Czarnecki: Yes. 

[00:03:48] Sarah Noel Block: So I'm excited to to hear how you do them. I am a big fan of creative briefs and it's funny because sometimes they're just for me, . Sometimes I'm creating them for [00:04:00] myself to keep me on point, and sometimes I'm handing them off, but I still want them done. 

[00:04:05] Mary Czarnecki: A hundred percent, yes. 

[00:04:07] Sarah Noel Block: So let's just start off real simple, and for anybody who is watching or listening and doesn't know what a creative brief is, can you explain what it is?

[00:04:15] Mary Czarnecki: Sure. The way I think about it is it's pretty much the assignment plus. So anytime you're working with someone who's helping you in a creative capacity, whether it's a copywriter, Graphic designer, website developer, they are bringing to the table their expertise, their experience. What I see the brief as is our way as the the marketer or the business owner being able to put what we want into language that will translate.

[00:04:43] Mary Czarnecki: From the strategic side over to the creative side. So it's really that translation document of here's what we want based on our business goals or our marketing goals, but what does that really mean for the creative partner that we're hiring? 

[00:04:58] Sarah Noel Block: And why are [00:05:00] they important? Why, why do we need them? Um, 

[00:05:04] Mary Czarnecki: yeah, I think that that, um, it really keeps people on task.

[00:05:07] Mary Czarnecki: So the biggest mistake that can happen if we don't use briefs is that. The person that we're hiring, take for example, someone who's writing an email newsletter for you, right? A copywriter that you're bringing in to write a series of emails. If they don't clearly understand who it is you're talking to, what do you really want them to do?

[00:05:28] Mary Czarnecki: And all of these other pieces of information that we include in the brief. They don't have enough information to actually do their job. They're just gonna be winging it, and there's that huge risk of them spending time creating something that isn't what you wanted to create in the first place. . 

[00:05:44] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. And it's so frustrating for both parties.

[00:05:47] Sarah Noel Block: They're doing something that they think, they're like, okay, I think this is the angle they're going with. I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And they go with it and you get the content or whatever it is [00:06:00] back, and you're like, that isn't at all what I envisioned. And it's just a lack of communication.

[00:06:05] Sarah Noel Block: It's not having that foundation in place before the project begins, and that's where the disconnect happens. 

[00:06:13] Mary Czarnecki: a hundred percent. And I think that's the, that's the little bit of challenge with briefs is that you do have to do some thinking before you write this, which I think is the, the part of it that keeps us as a business owner, the marketing leader on task, because these are things that we're supposed to be bringing to the conversation.

[00:06:31] Mary Czarnecki: It's not on our creative partners to figure out, well, who should be our target audience, unless that's specifically what we're hiring them to do. 

[00:06:37] Sarah Noel Block: Right? Yeah. You have. A strategy that needs to be in place before that creative partner can come in and execute. But usually the strategy person is not the same person as the executor.

[00:06:51] Sarah Noel Block: I think that's a weird way the executor, but you get what I mean, ? 

[00:06:57] Mary Czarnecki: A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, you're hopefully bringing [00:07:00] people in because they have a certain area of expertise like you were saying, and there are. Beautiful unicorns out there that can do multiple things really, really well. But more often than not, like you said, it is two different roles really within the organization.

[00:07:14] Mary Czarnecki: Yeah. 

[00:07:14] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. So I know that I create briefs for at least all of the writing projects that I have because there's just so many elements to it. But what other kinds of projects really require creative. For 

[00:07:29] Mary Czarnecki: sure. I mean, I would say I love using them. Anytime you're working with a creative partner and we're trying to translate business strategy or marketing strategy and objectives into, well, what does that actually mean?

[00:07:41] Mary Czarnecki: We need to see. So it could be, uh, updating a website page. It could be. Writing any kind of copy, whether it's for ads, even a Facebook ad or Instagram ad campaign, I think would be great and benefit from having a brief, even things like, uh, updating your [00:08:00] brand look, right? So if you're rebranding or refreshing a brand, that would be a really essential project to have a brief for, to keep it on fast.

[00:08:07] Mary Czarnecki: So 

[00:08:08] all 

[00:08:08] Sarah Noel Block: of 'em. All of 

[00:08:09] Mary Czarnecki: the projects. Yes, pretty much all of 'em . Now, do they all have to be as in depth, right? If you have a small project, you can. , how about more lean brief, but I think that the most important thing is making sure that we're giving the people the information they need to do great work.

[00:08:26] Mary Czarnecki: Mm-hmm. . 

[00:08:27] Sarah Noel Block: So what do you include in your briefs? 

[00:08:30] Mary Czarnecki: For sure. I'd probably say that the most important elements, whether it's a small project or a large project, are gonna fall into topics like the target audience, that audience. The behavior objective. What is it that we actually want this thing to make them do or to invite them to do the benefit promise and the reasons to believe, and then brand character.

[00:08:54] Mary Czarnecki: So all of those other elements other than brand character. I really encourage people to [00:09:00] write specifically for this project, for this brief, the brand characters, that one element that I like to see in briefs that can be copy and pasted because our brand character really shouldn't. Changing with every project that we're doing.

[00:09:12] Mary Czarnecki: It's the one part that I give my clients permission to copy and paste between Brie. 

[00:09:17] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. That's like your personality, your brand personality. And if you're changing, then no one knows what to expect from 

[00:09:25] Mary Czarnecki: you. . Right? Exactly. If all of a sudden over here you're snarky and you're cursing and you're copy, and then over here, it's very tailored and straight laced.

[00:09:32] Mary Czarnecki: People feel like they're talking to two different c. . 

[00:09:36] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. There's a complete disconnect. And you're like, who are you? ? Yes. . And when, when you're figuring in that No, like trust factor. You lose all of that. You lose the know, the like and the trust when you're changing your voice and your brand personality a 

[00:09:54] Mary Czarnecki: hundred percent.

[00:09:55] Mary Czarnecki: That's the one place you get to copy and paste, but everything else, it should be thought [00:10:00] through as you're providing it to the 

[00:10:01] Sarah Noel Block: team. Yeah. For my own creative briefs, I have a template that I follow, but yeah, if you're working. A single client, then you can have that template specific for that client. So you can have that brand personality in there, or linking to their brand guidelines, their content voice, those ki types of documents directly in there.

[00:10:23] Sarah Noel Block: And then you can save time because you already have it templated. . 

[00:10:27] Mary Czarnecki: Mm-hmm. . No, I mean, I'm a, I know you're a big advocate for making sure that we make this as simple and easy on everyone as possible. Right. What can we automate? What can we have set up ahead of time in a template? And that brand character is a great one to just make sure that we're agreed on it.

[00:10:41] Mary Czarnecki: We're not changing it. It's good to go. 

[00:10:43] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. And it makes it super simple if you're linking directly to that brand document that everyone can access, and that's right in the template. So when you create from template, it's there a hundred percent. Save yourself some time. So when you're creating creative briefs, it's a lot of word echoes there,[00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] Sarah Noel Block: Um, , what is your process? Do you interview the customer first? What kind of questions do you ask? 

[00:11:08] Mary Czarnecki: Yeah, for sure. So a lot of times what I'm doing is writing it alongside, uh, the marketing leader and the marketing team within a, within a brand or a company. And I love to make sure that they're pulling on what they know works.

[00:11:23] Mary Czarnecki: So, for example, I mentioned one of those elements. That I think is essential to have in every brief is a clear target audience description. So most business owners, most marketing teams have either their I C A or their persona or their target segment, that description, and so I'll work with them to take whatever it is they've got.

[00:11:43] Mary Czarnecki: And make sure they're looking at the most robust picture. We're not just talking about demographics or psychographics, but we're really making sure we're painting the full picture attitudes. What's their current usage? What are the dissatisfactions? So that when we put it into the brief, and then work with the creative partner to bring [00:12:00] that to life in the creative execution, whether that's copy or visual.

[00:12:04] Mary Czarnecki: We're able to really give them a, a clear perspective of who is this so that they can bring their expertise and what, what creative, what visual execution is gonna work to really resonate 

[00:12:15] Sarah Noel Block: with that. I like that a lot. That makes a huge difference in how a project is created, is who you're talking to, what problems they're currently experiencing.

[00:12:28] Sarah Noel Block: And the reason that I'm always shouting from the rooftops about quarterly planning is because you can be agile while still planning ahead of time. And I would say, you know, what's trending, what issues are happening in the world? three months ahead of time. It's good enough. . 

[00:12:47] Mary Czarnecki: No, definitely. I mean, I, I'm a huge fan of the quarterly process making sure that we're getting ahead of it cuz the last minute executions are always the ones that I pick ups,

[00:12:56] Sarah Noel Block: Oh my gosh. Aren't they ? [00:13:00] You're like, Anne, we need this done yesterday. Okay, let's try and figure out how to make that happen efficiently. . Exactly. Okay, so one right before we move on to the next question, I also wanted to bring up that you can have these customer avatars within let's say a p and g or a slide or something, and you can link those directly into your creative brief if you're using something like.

[00:13:26] Sarah Noel Block: like I use Google Suite for everything, but I think it would also work really well in Airtable if you had your customer avatars in one table and then you could link directly to it in the creative brief so people can gain access to all of the insights around that customer avatar. 

[00:13:41] Mary Czarnecki: No, a hundred percent.

[00:13:42] Mary Czarnecki: You know, having those and then having that access to bring them in so that we're staying consistent to who we're speaking to over time is, is. , 

[00:13:51] Sarah Noel Block: yeah. Makes it so much easier and you don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time. For sure. So who's [00:14:00] involved? When you're putting together a new creative brief, what stakeholders do you keep invested?

[00:14:06] Mary Czarnecki: Yeah, definitely. Well, depending on how the marketing team is structured, it really could be the brand manager or the brand management team, and then also usually anyone that's the owner of the information. So if you have a research partner or someone that's helped you do any kind of audience, Information research, those are definitely folks that I would have involved and participating in, putting together the information.

[00:14:30] Mary Czarnecki: And then I also make sure that the, the agency or the creative partners are also getting involved because things like, where are we gonna bring this to life? What are the media touchpoints we're gonna leverage for this campaign? For example, the agency or the creative partner might have some great perspective on what's working now, right?

[00:14:50] Mary Czarnecki: Where should we be showing up? based on what you're telling me about this audience, where they are in their journey with us and what we want them to do, what's that next step we want [00:15:00] them to take on this journey? 

[00:15:02] Sarah Noel Block: Okay. That just made me think of something. Usually I create my briefs in somewhat of a vacuum.

[00:15:07] Sarah Noel Block: It's an initial stakeholder call where we're doing the quarterly planning, and then I'll put together the briefs based off of that call. But for a larger project, I can see it making sense, having a kickoff call with every stakeholder involved in that project to put that brief 

[00:15:24] Mary Czarnecki: together. Yeah. Cause a lot of times, you know, I've been working on, you know, small projects, but then I sometimes I'm working on these very large, um, creative briefs for an enterprise level organization.

[00:15:36] Mary Czarnecki: And for them it is important to say, okay, the marketing side is going to bring forward, you know, here's what the business is subjective is, here's what we want this target to do after engaging with this campaign or this creative. And here's where we think that needs to then come to life. The executions, the places this needs to show up.

[00:15:55] Mary Czarnecki: But you tell us, right? You are at the cutting edge. You know what's working now in [00:16:00] terms of, you know, social media or digital marketing. So having a little bit of that openness to collaboration in creating some of those pieces of the brief has been really beneficial at. . 

[00:16:12] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And I really like the idea too, of bringing in some people from the sales side or the client facing side because they have the most personal insights.

[00:16:24] Sarah Noel Block: Mm-hmm. on what that customer avatar cares about in the moment and what questions they're being asked. So they would have really great insights for the 

[00:16:33] Mary Czarnecki: project. Yeah. And actually insight is one of those, , one of those terms that drives me nuts when people say, oh, here's our insight statement. And it's something like, you know, 80% of her purchases are made online and 23% of them are on mobile.

[00:16:48] Mary Czarnecki: I'm like, that is a fantastic data statement, , that's not, that's not the insight we're going for. And so that's one thing that I do see teams have to get a little used [00:17:00] to is we want the data, the data's important. But when we're really looking for those insights, like you said, sometimes the salespeople or the client facing teams can be really beneficial.

[00:17:09] Mary Czarnecki: Cause what we're trying to capture there is in the words of our audience, how are they describing that biggest pain, that deep, frustrating thing that's going on in their mind that's keeping them from achieving their picture of. 

[00:17:24] Sarah Noel Block: See, I love what you said right there. It's in their own words. That's something that I always try and capture when I'm doing a content or a messaging strategy because.

[00:17:35] Sarah Noel Block: If the customer is using a certain phrasing or a certain type of word around their problem that they're having or the solution that you provide, then it's likely that other people like them are using the same phrasings Googling it, and that needs to be part of your vernacular within your company. 

[00:17:55] Mary Czarnecki: No, a hundred percent I've started calling them Vortex words, these words that we as the [00:18:00] expert, right?

[00:18:00] Mary Czarnecki: The provider tend to use to describe what our audience might be feeling or their problems or even the benefit that we provide. But like you said, They start to just sound very similar to what other competitors or substitutes might be using. One example that popped up recently in a a couple conversations, I've been working with some brands in the beauty industry, and so they kept talking about, oh, well, We really deliver confidence after they use our product, she's gonna have so much more confidence.

[00:18:31] Mary Czarnecki: And it's a, it's a trap that word because it could mean so many different things. Right? So are you telling me this is the kind of confidence I'm gonna walk into a room and have confidence that everyone's eyes are gonna be on me because I used your beauty product? Or is this the kind of confidence where I don't really care whose eyes are on me cuz I feel awesome?

[00:18:49] Mary Czarnecki: Those are totally, very 

[00:18:49] Sarah Noel Block: different. Yeah, that is a good point. . Yeah. And I would say, hmm, the last one is what True [00:19:00] confidence is. I don't care what you think 

[00:19:02] Mary Czarnecki: about me, . Right, exactly. But depending on who you're talking to and how you want this to come across, we may wanna unpack that word a little bit. . 

[00:19:11] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah.

[00:19:12] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. What does that really mean? Is there anything that you want to go over that we haven't talked about? Do you have a brief that you want to share? Anything like that? 

[00:19:23] Mary Czarnecki: Yeah, I could definitely share a little snapshot if you want. Um, there's kind of an outline that I use as a best practice approach to give teams to just kind of make sure that when they're looking at, maybe they have a brief template or maybe they've never.

[00:19:38] Mary Czarnecki: Used a consistent creative brief template. These are the ones that I've seen when they're included in briefs. Turn the brief into a really powerful tool. So the way I think about it is, uh, the best practice approach to writing these briefs gets divided into two sections. The strategic of the mechanical, the mechanicals, really the boring section.

[00:19:57] Mary Czarnecki: Here's the assignment. Here's where we want it to show up. If [00:20:00] you've got any kind of legal or regulatory mandates, and then the approvals, who needs to sign off on this? Those things aren't up for debate. Art and science blend comes in, in that strategic section. Do we have a really clear picture of the target audience?

[00:20:13] Mary Czarnecki: That's not just demographics? Do we have a really clear picture of where we want them to go? What is the behavior objective we want them to achieve through consuming this content or experiencing this campaign? We already talked about that target insight, but in here, I don't just want that data statement.

[00:20:31] Mary Czarnecki: I want that true insight statement in their words. And then the benefit, promise and reasons to believe. The best practice here is that make sure they link . So when we're saying, here's our core benefit, this is what we promise that you, the audience is gonna be able to do and feel. , it should be paid off by some very specific reasons to believe.

[00:20:52] Mary Czarnecki: So a lot of times big mistake. I see there is brands giving their creative partners all these amazing reasons to believe all these different [00:21:00] features and ingredients and yeah, all the features set, but they're not specifically tied to the benefit that this campaign or this execution is meant to bring to life.

[00:21:08] Mary Czarnecki: And so really it just overwhelms the creative team and it's left to them to pick and choose which of these are we gonna. and then the media touchpoints is really not so much where is this campaign gonna show up? But giving the team a perspective of where does this audience consume information? Who are they listening to?

[00:21:25] Mary Czarnecki: What kinds of formats are they really engaging with? And then the brand character being the, the one thing we wanna make sure is super consistent across our campaigns who. When your brand walks into the room and your business walks into the room, when your products walks, walking into the room, if we were gonna personify that, who is that character that walks into the room?

[00:21:45] Mary Czarnecki: So when this comes together, it usually provides the best toolkit for that creative partner to kick off with . 

[00:21:51] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, I really like that you have the media touch points and what mediums they like best, what channels they like best, and that is [00:22:00] something that can certainly be linked with the customer. Like that certain avatar also prefers these mediums and these channels, and it can also help you with your repurposing process afterwards.

[00:22:15] Sarah Noel Block: One thing that I always include in my creative briefs is how can we repurpose this? What assets can we create from this initial project? If it's a core piece of content or a core project, I'm sure it can be, you can usually think of at least 12 ways to be able to use it a new way. 

[00:22:34] Mary Czarnecki: Well, a hundred percent.

[00:22:35] Mary Czarnecki: And it's not just so much, you know, obviously we wanna know where they're showing up, right? So they love these channels or they love these social media platforms. But I always love to know a little bit more about, well, who are they listening to? Is this target really resonating? They want short, snappy, little things.

[00:22:50] Mary Czarnecki: Do they really react well to social proof or is this the kind of audience. You know, a fully blown up white paper, right? Do they want all the information before they're gonna be ready to [00:23:00] move forward? So I think that including those in media touchpoints is really, really valuable for the team. . 

[00:23:05] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, I really, I really like that.

[00:23:07] Sarah Noel Block: And it would help you with any future projects that are springboarding off of this one. And now I'm going to start including the media touchpoints into mine. . 

[00:23:17] Mary Czarnecki: No, it's really fun. And another thing that I work with a lot of my clients on is looking at their target and the journey, like really journey mapping.

[00:23:24] Mary Czarnecki: What is this audience journey that we want them to have with our. And the media touchpoints is really just like a little mini snapshot of that kind of work that can be done and brought into this campaign to give the the team perspective on where does this fit really in this whole journey. 

[00:23:38] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[00:23:40] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Within a messaging and content strategy, I create that customer journey map in there, but I don't link it to my creative brief. But that's brilliant . 

[00:23:52] Mary Czarnecki: No, it, it definitely helps. I've seen it. I've seen it do good things. . 

[00:23:56] Sarah Noel Block: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Um, is there anything else that you wanna [00:24:00] talk about before you share how people can find you online?

[00:24:04] Mary Czarnecki: No, I'd say just, you know, some parting thoughts. You know, if there are three things that people could take and I. That's not complex, not overwhelming right away is look at how you describe your target audience. Do you describe their attitude toward the category? Do you go deeper than just psychographics and demographics?

[00:24:23] Mary Czarnecki: Do you have a real insight, not just a bunch of data points, and when you're thinking about sharing a new project with your creative team or getting them involved, Yeah, I invite you to think about using a creative brief template. It doesn't have to be overwhelming or complicated, but few key pieces of information can make it a whole lot more efficient.

[00:24:44] Sarah Noel Block: yeah, you had amazing insights. How can people find you online? 

[00:24:50] Mary Czarnecki: Definitely the best place to find me is literally just my name.com. So Mary's our nike.com and I'll also make sure that your audience has access to [00:25:00] one of the brief templates that we talked 

[00:25:02] Sarah Noel Block: through today. Awesome. Thank you so much. And do you have a favorite channel that you go on?

[00:25:07] Mary Czarnecki: So I've been a big fan recently of Instagram, so if you wanna know a little bit more about what's happening behind the scenes in my business, Instagram stories and reels are a great place to to find me online. 

[00:25:18] Sarah Noel Block: Perfect. So go find her over on Instagram. Thank you again for chatting with me today. Thank you so much for joining me and Mary on this amazing carpet ride.

[00:25:30] Sarah Noel Block: No, it was just a podcast, , this podcast. This is the Tiny Marketing Show, and if you enjoyed it, make sure to tell a friend about it so we can grow our audience. We want to hear from you. If you had questions about this episode, head on over to my website, sarah noelle block.com and go to the Tiny Marketing Show There.

[00:25:53] Sarah Noel Block: You can submit your questions and we'll answer them right live on the [00:26:00] podcast. It's not live. It's a podcast. It's pre-recorded, but you get it. I'll see you next time.

[00:26:10] Sarah Noel Block: Hello, and thank you for joining Tiny Marketing. I help tiny marketing departments create consistent content that builds trust with their audience. Book done for you content marketing@sarahnoelblock.com. Don't forget to follow, write and review the podcast on your favorite podcast app. See you next time, friends.