Ep 177: Bridge The Gap: Run Sales Calls That Close | Guest Expert: Jonny Holsten

We show solo consultants how to run sales calls that feel natural yet drive clear outcomes. From scoring fit without a CRM to handling budget early and locking next steps, we share simple pivots that raise conversions without chasing more leads.

• three recurring sales call mistakes and how to fix them
• four fit factors to qualify buyers fast
• simple bridge score you can run on a notepad
• use intake forms for pre-qualification
• magic pivots that make money talk easy
• build conviction by tuning offer and price
• position outcomes, not hours, to raise perceived value
• lock momentum with three next steps
• ask 11+ clarifying questions to find real pain
• reflect back pain, impact, and stakes to align
• why timing questions shape the right next step
• book: Fix Your Broken Sales Calls and how to work with Johnny

Jonny Holsten – BridgeSelling

In this episode, Jonny Holsten of BridgeSelling.com shares a smarter way to run sales conversations—without scripts, pressure, or awkward tactics. As the author of Fix Your Broken Sales Calls, Jonny teaches solopreneurs and sales teams how to close more deals by improving the structure and clarity of their calls. Instead of chasing more leads, he shows how better conversations naturally lead to better outcomes.

🔗 Connect with Jonny on LinkedIn:
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyholsten/

📘 Get his book Fix Your Broken Sales Calls:
https://www.bridgeselling.com/book

Learn more at:
 https://www.bridgeselling.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Audience Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Tiny Marketing Podcast. I'm Serena Off Block. This show is made for solo consultants who want to get booked out without burning out. If you've ever thought, I just want this to feel easier, you're not alone. Around here, we focus on simple, sustainable growth that actually fits into your life so growth feels doable instead of overwhelming.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

My name is Johnny. I'm a sales trainer and strategist from Bridge Selling.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Awesome. That was straight to the point. Thank you for joining me today. And we are talking about how you can have a better sales call. What would you say are the three things that people are doing wrong on sales call?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

The big one is just going into it with no strategy at all, like no set game plan for how that call is going to be run. And because you're doing that, you don't have a game plan. Because you don't have a game plan, you don't have a way to score and assess where you're at. And then because you don't have either of those two things,

Three Big Sales Call Mistakes

SPEAKER_01 1:05

your follow-up and your next steps are usually sort of random and sporadic. And so I think those are three of the big things. No, no set game plan, which means you're you're grading and you're scoring your deals differently from one to the next. And then it helps, it makes it impossible to have momentum moving one conversation to the next to a closed deal. So that's sort of three things lumped in one that all come from just having no game plan, having no strategy or structure for a call.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

And so most of the audience here are solo consultants and they're small teams. How should they be assessing if someone is a good fit or not? Like how do they score when they don't have maybe a CRM that would typically be scoring?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, well, it's super simple. When a lot of times when people hear scoring or like analyzing deals, we're thinking tech, we're thinking CRM is a good thing. No, yeah, this can be done on a spreadsheet. This can be done in your brain. This can be done on a notepad. And the way we like to look at it is anytime you're closing a deal, you're crossing a bridge. You're getting your customer from one side of the bridge to the next. And the way we approach it is across that bridge, there are six different steps. And how we score a deal is whether or not that deal, that buyer,

Simple Deal Scoring For Solos

SPEAKER_01 2:24

how how they got through those six steps. And so we part of that is what we call the bridge score. And the way you should be looking at whether or not someone's a qualified buyer, and it's different for everybody because we all sell different things to different people, but the four main ways to look at it. One, do they have a problem that you can solve? So the first thing we look at is do they genuinely have the right problem for you to solve? The next is do they have the authority and the budget to make the buying decisions? So are you talking to someone, if you're selling, especially in B2B or larger B2B? Oftentimes you won't be speaking to the decision maker. But if you're a solopreneur and you have smaller offers, likely you're speaking to the decision maker. So that's just something to keep in mind. The third piece is does their timeline align with yours? So do you have capacity for now or later? And does that line up with the buyer? And the fourth thing is how what is the likelihood that that buyer is going to be a raving fan or a huge success story? So be thinking of it in those four categories. Does the does this person have a problem you can solve? Do they have the budget to pay full price and make that decision? Do they have the timeline that works with yours? And will they are they likely to be a success story?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

So that could be easy enough done, like uh if you have a Google Doc and you just have a checklist on there where every time you have a sales call, maybe you have your little spiel on there, or at least the questions that you want answered, and then you can have that checklist. Do they hit these? And that can be great idea to school.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Most of those things can also be can be sussed out on an intake form. A lot of them can be. So you can have a really good idea, even coming into a call. Does this person check those boxes or not? And even in in conversation with someone, you can be really honest and say, hey, as we dive in, the best fit for this program or for this offer is this, and give them a bit of a rundown, save everybody's time by being clear like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, that's such a good idea to like bring to the forefront is allow people to self-identify in or out from the beginning. That makes it so much easier and saves everybody a lot of time. Okay. So when I think about like we need to score, we and so we need to score, we need to find out this information about someone. I automatically think either we have like a beat sheet that we're trying to hit or a template or a script. So what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah, we you don't want to have to follow script. You shouldn't have to follow script typically. What I like to think of is what we call magic pivots. So there are different checkpoints and different steps in a sales call. If it feels overly scripted and the whole thing is being run by a script, no one's gonna feel connection. So instead, I would focus on

Qualifying With Four Fit Factors

SPEAKER_01 5:20

what are the parts of the call that feel feel most difficult to you? And can you really work on some language, some pivots that are gonna help you guide the conversation in that direction so that you don't feel tense and you don't feel stressful? Maybe you have a hard time asking for the sale or asking or talking about the finances. Can you create some magic pivots that you do get rehearsed and scripted within those pivots, but the rest of your call should feel organic and the ultimate end place with any any magic pivot or scripted language is that it never comes across like a script.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah. Yeah. I always find scripts or even pitch jacks, they they all feel like this is not my vibe. I'm not invested in this. I want to talk about those magic pivots. So let's say I'm on a sales call and it's come to that point where I need to figure out do you have the budget for this offer? Like, is it worth moving you forward into like the next step? But I feel awkward. I don't know how to do it. What do I, what are some pivots I can I can use?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

In the scenario you're talking about, I'd ask you, where where are you in the call typically when that situation might come up? Are you at the end? Are you in the middle? Walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, for me, it's probably like 75% through the call is when I'm usually asking about the budget. Probably should happen earlier. But let's say it's at 75%.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Well, when sure, 75%. One way to go about this is you can mention it early on. So mention it as early in the call as possible. That can help disarm the situation because if you wait too late and you wait till the end, what usually happens is the buyer, they might one, they might have sticker shock, or two, they just haven't put any thought into what they're willing to spend. And so if you wait till the end and you only have five minutes, six minutes left in the conversation, the natural thing to say is, thanks for all this info. Let me put some thought into it and get back to you, right? The better way to go about it is as early as you possibly can, say, hey, typically the program or our services cost this, or hey, our program is this, and we'll talk about the specifics about it, but just want to get that on your radar. Is that something that could could potentially work for you? What you'll find is usually people will say, Yeah, we might be able to make that work, or that shouldn't be a shouldn't be an issue. Or they'll say, No, that's completely not an option. Now, the the beauty of it is if you get that last result where they say, absolutely under no option, like under no world would I be able to afford this, then you end the call or you say, Well, great, you've got my time for the next 20 minutes, and maybe you do some free coaching or something. But most of the time, people will say, Yes, that that's a possibility, or we could probably make that work. And what happens to the buyer is when you confront that earlier on in the conversation, they now have the time to talk themselves

Scripts Vs Magic Pivots

SPEAKER_01 8:20

into why it's worth that as you go through the rest of your value prop and the rest of your program. And so now they know the price and they're sort of adding up all the things as to why it may be worth that. So one way to get better at it is squeeze it in earlier, hit it head on. And then if you wait till the end and you're nervous, that energy comes off on the buyer. So typically I would just say, get ahead of it early, be be right up front with it.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah. And you know, they're always wondering, like they're on that call because they're curious about money is part of that. So you just like break the ice and say, okay, you're probably wondering about the money. So let's talk about that first.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I love that. And the way you just said that right there, you're probably wondering about the money. Let's talk about that first. That is a perfect magic pivot right there. And you might just get really good at saying that and way to go. For anybody listening, if you heard that, that is a great line because listen to how Sarah said it there. It sounded organic because it was. We're just having a conversation, but she didn't say, let's talk budget, let's talk price point. She said more casually, you're probably worrying about the money. Let's talk about that first. That is a magic pivot right there. So something to tuck away and use.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Excellent. I'm gonna use that from now on. Okay, so we're on a sales call. And okay, I feel pretty comfortable on sales calls, but let's say I'm not. I'm nervous, it makes me so uncomfortable, and I hate talking about money. I hate feeling salesy. It's all gross to me. How do I make this feel natural and conversational when that's not how I feel?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

One thing to think through is do doing some soul searching for anyone on the other side of this that feels feels like that is like it's it's grimy and slimy, is maybe making sure you're selling something that you really like to sell and you really enjoy selling makes all the difference in the world. And the other part of it is often that money side of it. We don't want to feel weird about taking money from somebody else. And so when we get really in a good state of mind that the money being spent is money well spent, it be it gets a lot easier. So I would say if there's something, let's say you're listening and you're in charge of if you most of this audience is not like a sales rep at a larger company, you're selling something that you've developed yourself, an offer.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah, most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And so, what can you do? Yeah, what can you do to that offer to make it that much more convicting in your soul? And when you're starting out early on, I've been in business for myself my whole professional career. There are some times when you need to lower the price of something so you have that conviction behind it because you know it's a home run deal. And there are times when you need to raise it because uh it's worth way more. So if you're selling something, maybe you can enhance the offer to get more excited about it. But sometimes you need to sell it a little lower to really get that confidence and see it work and stack those wins before you can raise it. Uh, I think anytime I've had apprehension in selling something because of like just it's felt weird, it's because I lack some form of conviction

Talking Money Early And Calmly

SPEAKER_01 11:30

behind the sale. And those are some ways to get around.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

That's spot on. That's what I've always seen too. Like, if you don't believe in the offer, if you don't think that that value is truly there, that's when you start feeling uncomfortable. So looking at the price, that's where you can start because it's usually like I feel like I'm robbing them, or you have a hard time on the other end where you're like, I feel like I'm giving this away at this price point. So like I don't even want to bother. Like those are the two extremes that I'm constantly seeing where when I'm really comfortable selling an offer, it's usually it falls into I feel like they're getting way more value than they're paying for, but in like a good way. Like it's not taking advantage of me, but like I feel good in giving this to them.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, that's where you want to be. That's the sweet spot. I think it should always feel that way. Because if your buyer feels that same way too, they're gonna pass along words to other people, they're gonna want to buy again. You always want to feel like you're on that side of the value scale, that you're over-delivering.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah. And I think like on the consultant end, like the people who are listening to this right now, you can usually get to that point where you feel like you're giving something away that's really valuable for a fair price point when you're looking at your offer and you're you're fixing any like deliverability issues, like things that take up extra time that don't need to. So just looking at that offer and taking out anything that's unnecessary. So it's not eating up your time so much, but it's high value. So it looks, it's, I feel like it's usually an operations adjustment that can get you into that place.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I agree, or even a slight positioning, slight messaging thing. I think of working with one client on a project where they're selling a single-day workshop and they would position it as a single-day workshop. But the reality was there were a couple follow-up calls. So really it was a 30-day engagement. And even making that slight shift on saying, hey, rather than this is a one-day workshop that feels high pressure. Like, what if we don't get everything done in one day? And and without even changing much, repositioning it to a 30-day engagement, close rate went through the roof. So those are some tactics and things to do to one, increase the service, the quality of service, over deliver on value, and make it seem like a no-brainer without really changing much at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

That's a really good point. Because when, well, one, when you set time parameters around your offer, people start doing the math and thinking, so it costs this much per hour to work with that person. Whereas if you give the offer a name and it's not so much around the parameters, like this is a sprint or this is an intensive, instead of this is a four-hour workshop, mind shift. There's people are no longer doing the math around your time. They're looking more at the outcome. This is what I'll get at the end.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yep. Spot on.

unknown 14:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Let's look at the next point. So you said, how do you close more deals without more leads? So, how do you improve your conversion rate, which is something all of my clients are wanting right now. I just brought in a whole bunch of new people into Book Down Six, and they're all in that point where they're they're selling their gateway offers. So they're gonna, everybody scoot in a little bit closer right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah. Love it. Well, I like to think of the concept of revenue hiding in plain sight. So if you didn't change your offer, let's assume your offer's down, let's assume you kind of know how you're getting your leads, but maybe your close rate's struggling and suffering. So rather than stressing about how can I get more leads, now the question is how can I increase my revenue by just being better in conversation and better in the calls? And there's really two ways to do this. We talk about you need to have a game plan and a strategy. And some of the things we've already talked about earlier, the magic pivots, the ways to hit the money side head on, all those work. All those are super helpful to build out sort of your game plan. One thing that so many people forget to do is locking in next steps and locking in momentum because they're afraid of getting a no. We'd almost rather our human insecurities would rather live with a deal in maybe, maybe they'll get back to me. They said they'd get back to me, or I'll follow up. Deal purgatory. We'd rather live in that space. Yeah, we'd rather live in deal purgatory or follow up hell, like I like to call it if we want to use the different naming of it, but following up constantly because we don't have a yes or a no. And so the way to eliminate that and spike your close rate is to get really good at when there's five, six minutes left in the call. Hey, what are your thoughts? And you, you know, what feels like the right next step for you is something you may ask the other party. And

Build Conviction And Price With Confidence

SPEAKER_01 16:30

then never let that conversation end without one of three things happening. Either deciding it's not a good fit and clean break, or closing the deal or scheduling the next conversation. If it's anything but those three, the deal is good as lost. And so I would get very good at just implementing what are our next steps and what are we doing after this call. That will probably double the close rate of many people listening here. A simple tactic or strategy you can try is what we call three next steps. My step as the salesperson, your step as the buyer, our next step together. It clicks really well together. So as you wind down a conversation, you can say, uh, you suss out where they're at, you see what they want to do. First step, I'm gonna send the contract. Next step, you're gonna sign, and then we're gonna schedule our onboarding together. That could be for someone ready to buy. For someone in the middle, it might be, hey, first I'm gonna send you this case study. Next, you give it a read and let me know all the questions you have about it. And third, let's meet again in two weeks. How does that work for you? And if you can get past the fear of them saying, no, I don't really want to meet with you again, if you can get past that, you're gonna get so much more clarity and and way more closed deals.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah, I really like that framework. Um, I'm also a believer. You need to have that next step on that sales call. That's why I love gateway offers. Because once you have that call, it's like, okay, the next step is to book your gateway offer. We can get a time now. The next one I have available is this date and this time. Does that work for you? And it's an easy way to ease someone into an entry point offer.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Spot on.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Okay. And the last thing we wanted to touch on is how to stop guessing on discovery calls so you can guide your prospects through to the next step. That sounds like this. Is that Beth?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah, this is a huge part of it. The other part is none of this is possible if we don't understand the real pain point or the real problem behind what the other person is trying to achieve. And it's very um, it's very easy to start a conversation with, hey, talk to me a little bit about, you know, what you'd like to learn or tell me what caught your attention and what led you to this call. But the best sellers we know are asking 11 or more questions in their calls. And close rates go up to set, go 74% higher when a sales rope can ask 11 or more questions.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

And that's for a whole bunch of reasons. Yeah. And if we really think through that, is you know, why is that? It's because people are getting to real pain points by 11 questions.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

You may not need to ask all 11 questions, but if we're thinking about how can we uncover pain points, that makes our positioning of our service, our three-step plan at the end, it's all relevant to a pain point rather than trying to figure something out and hoping and making, you know, hoping it works out. So really, you can't guide anyone to the next step unless you have a very, very clear idea of the pain point and you've repeated it back to them. And you've said, hey, based on what you've told me, what I've got here is this. This is your situation. This is the outcome it's creating. This is what's at stake if you don't do anything about it. Is there anything I missed? That's one magic pivot that I would recommend a lot of people to use is is that what's I missed? Is there anything I missed? Because once you get used to saying that, people will open up with a lot of gold. And between all the different tactics we've talked about today, you should have enough to guide forward in the next step. And don't be afraid to tell someone it's not a good fit. I think that's another really important thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, I like that actually reminds me of when I was just interviewing people for content. Is there anything that I should know that I haven't asked you before? Is like a perfect question that you could ask on a sales call.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah, yeah. Use that one.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah, I will. I'll take that over from my article writing days. Oh, I remember what question I was going to ask you. So you said that you should have at least 11 questions. Are there any specific questions that we never want to miss?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

What I always lean on, or what I think everyone who's selling anything

Positioning Offers For Perceived Value

SPEAKER_01 20:40

should lean on, is what I call cheat code questions, which are really clarifying questions. There's three of them. Why, why is that? Can you tell me more about that? And can you go a little bit deeper on that, right? Just going the same question. There's three different variations. And you can ask those questions over and over again. You could ask, can you tell me more about that three or four times in different ways to get to your 11 questions? So, what for sure uh you want to ask, like, what's the surface level reason we're having this conversation? What uh tell me a little bit about your situation. Beyond that, you want to ask something timing related. So, why now? Why are you interested in this process now, or what led you to book this call now as opposed to six months ago or three weeks ago or the future? And that's a really important one because that will help you fill in the gaps of your next steps at the end of a conversation. If you're not sure where to lead them next, timing will help fill in all those gaps. So don't forget your cheat code questions and don't forget to ask about timing.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Okay, that's perfect. Now, for anybody who wants to go deeper with you, you have a book. Fix your broken sales call right here. And can you tell me a little bit more about that? And we'll have the link in the show notes too.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Sure. Yeah, fix your broken sales calls. It's a book on how can you You design your ideal sales call? How can you make one that works well for you that accomplishes all the steps on the bridge we talked about earlier? And then coming out of that, you're going to have your own like secret scoring formula for how to rate a deal in a sales call. And it's not super techie, it's super simple and easy to execute on. And the book will give you examples on how other companies have used the framework, how other solopreneurs have used the framework and how you can build it for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I am so excited to get into that. I told you, I'm in the middle of a launch right now. So I haven't read anything for pleasure or business, but I am so excited to dig into this. Like I can't even explain how much I love content around sales because it felt like such a mystery to me when I started my business. So it just excites me so much to understand like the psychology. And it's just, I actually enjoy it now.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Good. Well, I hope you enjoy the book too.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yes, I can't wait to get into it. Before we wrap up, how can people find you online and how can they work with you?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yep, bridgeselling.com is the best way to book a time. You can talk with me if you're having struggles in your sales process. We'd be happy to learn more about it and see if we can do something to help you out. LinkedIn, Johnny Holston, you'll see my name in the show in the show notes. That's a good place to connect. Also, our work is a mixture of training, coaching, and strategy. So wherever you fall in that spectrum, be happy to have a chat and see if we can help you get dialed in on your sales.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Awesome. And who are you typically working with?

SPEAKER_01 23:27

We're working with sales teams. So a mixture of uh people who have larger sales teams where maybe they need to level up the skills of their people. But we also do have options for solopreneur and small businesses. If you want to

Raise Close Rates With Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 23:40

do a workshop that's maybe half a day or a full day where it's 30-day engagement, like we talked about earlier with the uh couple check-ins after that workshop, we can help you to just uh let us know where what situation you're in, and we're happy to happy to have a chat either way and point you somewhere else if we can't help.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, awesome. I needed to know because I talk to so many people and they're always asking for referrals. So that's why I was asking. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

The most important thing is, you know, you've got to know what you're selling and you've got to have your lead flow figured out.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah. That makes sense. Thank you. If this episode made things feel a little more doable, I'd love to help you take the next step with the booked out blueprint. It's a practical, low pressure session to clarify your offers, your marketing, and what actually moves the needle. You can book yours through the link in the show notes. You don't have to figure it out alone.