On this week's episode, Christine and Shannon chat with Sex & Intimacy coach Court Vox (The Body Vox) about pleasure, sex, and intimacy for men and how to battle some of the myths and stereotypes around male sexuality to achieve more exploration and satisfaction.
References
The Body Vox
Squirm Sensation Toys
Follow us on social @sexeddebunked or send us a message at sexeddebunked@gmail.com
On this week's episode, Christine and Shannon chat with Sex & Intimacy coach Court Vox (The Body Vox) about pleasure, sex, and intimacy for men and how to battle some of the myths and stereotypes around male sexuality to achieve more exploration and satisfaction.
References
The Body Vox
Squirm Sensation Toys
Follow us on social @sexeddebunked or send us a message at sexeddebunked@gmail.com
This is sex ed debunked. A cross generational podcast hosted by mother daughter duo Christina and Shannon Curley, where we talk about all the things you learned
Shannon:or didn't learn
Christine:in sex ed,
Shannon:and where it all went wrong
Christine:from the abstinence curriculum to the monogamy myth.
Shannon:to the vast spectrum of rainbow representation.
Christine:We'll get real about sex positivity, and catch you up on everything from proper anatomy
Shannon:to the holistic benefits of a great sex life.
Christine:Tune in to sex ed debunked wherever you get your podcasts
Shannon:and follow us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Hi, and welcome to sex ed debunked. A cross generational podcast about sex positivity, sexual health and what it means to explore the sensual and the erotic in this episode made, especially for men.
Christine:And of course, this information is important for all genders. As we've talked about exploring pleasure and broadening the concept of sexuality and sensuality in various episodes of the podcast. On today's episode, we're joined by sex and intimacy coach Court Vox to talk about sensuality, performance, anxiety, and what it means to be exploring erotic intimacy and pleasure. Core is the founder of The Body Vox, co founder of squirm toys, which we'll talk about later, and a member of the World Association of sex coaches, he'll be helping us debunk a myth. In fact, a number of myths, including the myth, that sex for men is all about penetration. Court. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Court:Thanks so much for having me. It's exciting to be here.
Shannon:We're excited to have you beyond excited. So before we jump into it core, a question a lot of our followers had was simply what is it mean to be a sex and intimacy coach? We've heard of life coaches, executive coaches, career coaches, but give us the down low on which is sure laid out well, sure, yes, I thought it coaches but give us the download on what a sex and intimacy coach does.
Court:So you know, there there are different types of sex and intimacy coaches, I think it's really important to note that I am a somatic sex intimacy coach, somatic means of the body. So unlike a traditional coach or therapist that solely works with talk therapy, I work with talk therapy, as well as body based exercises and touch to facilitate learning and growth. I would say that my work is rooted in the erotic, it is rooted in sexuality. And so much of what we learn about our sexuality and our eroticism, has this beautiful Trickle Up effect into the rest of our lives. So while I don't consider myself a life coach, much of the learnings and and kind of growth processes that people have when leaving working with me have a way of filtering out into their lives in really profound and meaningful ways.
Shannon:I think that makes a ton of sense. And also applicable with other types of coaches. Right, a fitness coach isn't a life coach, but will improve your life and executive coaches and a life coach, but your life will benefit. Same thing with a sex intimacy coach. So thank you for that summary.
Christine:That's awesome. And I was going to ask you court, about your work and your philosophy when it comes to all things erotic, but I think it kind of came through in that response.
Court:You know, I like to make a differentiation between erotic and sexual. I do consider them two different things. And I think there is a middle ground where they both meet, but I think you know, there is a way that people run eroticism in various parts of their lives. If you think about your life as a pie, a whole pie, and it were cut up into slices, and how you parlay your eroticism into all of those spaces. Really. It's our lifeforce energy, the thing that gets us up in the morning that's we're excited about and that we're in love with, right. And so many of my clients come to work with me and we start to identify parts of their lives where they're already running the erotic. You know, they're very successful and happy in their business. They have beautiful friendships. They have rich travel lives. They are foodies, and then it's what I can't connect to my sexuality or my genitals or my body. And it's really taking all the information around us with them and saying how can we take how you're running your eroticism and all these other areas that's really working for you in a beautiful way and apply it to how you bring it to sex.
Christine:Wow, that's fascinating. I never really thought of that using like eroticism as a as kind of an overarching term for all of our lifeforce and our life energy the way you have. So you kind of channel with people. It kind of connects people to what they already have in their lives and bring it back to their sexuality and their sensuality. That's pretty amazing stuff.
Court:Yeah, I think that there is this western idea that we are broken, or that we need fixing of some kind, that we need to be better than we are. And the reality is that we have all the tools within us to create who we want to be and where we want to go. And so, you know, really, this practice is about coming back to yourself, coming back to your natural body, your natural connection to earth and to, to yourself and to the people around you. And with all the culture and society and messages that we receive throughout our lives, you know, those are barriers and obstacles, and we kind of figure out ways to move them in order to reconnect, if you will.
Christine:Beautiful. Yeah, no, I
Shannon:mean, that's such a holistic way of thinking about it. And I think it's, it's a message we try to send on this show a lot. And we've talked about sort of sensuality and connection to self. But as to sis, women, we've primarily talked about it through the lens of being women. So we're really excited to have you on the show, as well to offer a different perspective as a man to be able to answer some of the questions that frankly, we just are not equipped to, to answer. And when you talk about those Western norms, I think there's specific cultural norms for men as well that have to be considered.
Christine:Yeah, I mean, we do talk a lot about those than social norms that impact women. And we're kind of taken want to devote this episode, at least in in part to the dorms that we know impact men in a different way, especially around the idea that heterosexual sis heterosexual men can talk about sex, but not sexuality, or not sensuality, like those things are not particularly allowed. So what we did here before, because we knew we were extremely excited that you were coming to to give your point of view and your experience, we actually asked some of our listeners and kind of focused on the men to share with us some questions they've been curious about in terms of their own sexuality, so we can ask them for them, where they might not be open and vulnerable to ask those questions themselves.
Shannon:Wonderful. Great. So we actually had an episode recently where we talked about the different types of orgasms and debunked the myth that there's only one kind of orgasm. But I guess we need you to help back that up, because some of our listeners asked again, can men really experience different types of orgasms? Or is the end experience of release always the same?
Court:So I want to first identify that my work with women has actually helped me reframe how I think about orgasm in not only women's bodies, but in my own body. Specifically, with my work with back to the body and Pamela Madsen, who was I mean, we often, she is amazing. You know, we often think about orgasm as climax, right? It's that sneeze at the end of something. And what's possible for women is really to be in a state of high arousal for a very long time. Without that climax, or that tipping over point. And for a lot of women, they really enjoy being in high arousal and high states of arousal for long periods of time. And going into these like peaks and little valleys, right, and going up and down. And that's so delicious, have the feeling that the orgasm, the quote, unquote, orgasm, the climax that we think of, as sometimes becomes secondary. So I almost want to separate the two of orgasm and climax as two different things. And it just in terms of how I'm speaking about it. And what I know about my own body is that those two things are possible in my body and my male body and my penis stone body is that I can have really long extended periods of arousal that may or may not include my genitals. And most definitely include full body touch and full body exploration and sensation. I think what's true about most men is specifically in heterosexual relationships, is they're so focused on doing right, and they're focused on doing their woman and getting it right and making sure she's pleased. And I think on the flip side of it, the women are trying to please their men in whatever way they are wanting to whether that's looking a certain way or posing in a certain way. And so you get to people who are really focused on the others enjoyment without really checking in on what that is. And then in that process, you have to disembodied humans,
Christine:right, right, because they're, they're kind of like we've talked in other episodes like acting out a role. More than anything like what how they're supposed to behave sexually. And I think, I think this question from the listeners was, was kind of like, Can men really do it differently? Other than the, you know, a few minutes of, you know, foreplay for lack of a better term, which we hate. And then, you know, can they do it differently? How do they learn to do it differently? We
Shannon:don't hate foreplay. We hate the fact that foreplay is supposed to be the only fun part until you get to the actual deliverable, whatever
Christine:the clarification is, we think it's all should all be fun, because the the term foreplay implies that what comes after is somehow better. And our view is, it's all play.
Court:I mean, I like what Esther Perel says about foreplay is that it starts the minute you end. So the minute your sex together ends, foreplay begins again. But just to go back to your question about multiple orgasms, for men, I think it looks different ways, right. So as men get older, our refractory period gets longer. So refractory period is the time in between ejaculation. So you know, for somebody who is you know, 16 years old, you might be able to eject collate, and then 510 minutes later, start over again, and do that multiple times in a day. But as men get older, the refractory period gets longer and longer. So you know, that might look like an hour, it might look like 24 hours, it might look like three days really depends on on each human and each body. It's a very individual thing. But to kind of know what your refractory period is. So you know, there is the Multiple Orgasm in the sense that you would have an like an ejaculation and then 10 minutes later have another one. There is also in my body. What I'm capable of having is two to four, back to back, a Jackie dilatory orgasms that just keep getting bigger and bigger as they happen. And
Christine:I know my listeners would stop you right now. Because Are you special? Or can other men learn how to do that? I mean, because you have a refractory period, right? And but in between, can't you still experience pleasure? Can't you still experience that long term arousal? Even if you're may not get to that climax and not get to that endpoint?
Court:You're talking about? Orgasm without ejaculation?
Christine:Yeah, yeah.
Court:Yeah. But I think you know, there's there's breath techniques, like the big draw that comes from Taoism, that many people experience as sort of an orgasmic feeling. And to do that multiple times, you're left sort of like in the state of euphoria. And so many men and women use that breath technique to kind of mimic or recreate orgasmic energy in the body. I think, you know, also what I noticed about my own body, and you know, other men that I've worked with is, you know, utilizing and adapting or not adapting, but touching the prostate. And that doesn't always have to be from the inside the anus, some men can access their prostate from the outside. And so feeling just above the pubic bone, and pushing in and a little bit down, it presses on the bladder, which presses on the prostate. And you know, it might feel a little uncomfortable at first, because it's such a new feeling, and also might feel like you have to pee. But when you are in a state of arousal, the prostate gets larger, it's a little bit easier to find, and see if you can almost look past the fact that you have to pee. Yeah, so fighting the urge to go to the bathroom. And just notice if it's you having to pee or if it's just a new sensation that you haven't felt before. And so, you know, activating the prostate, whether it's from internally or externally, during caulk massage or caulk touch, or even without it for some men can be incredibly pleasurable. And having prostate orgasms are very big for men. It's really a very sensitive part of the body. And men experience orgasm without ejaculation, even through prostate massage.
Christine:But we learned something.
Court:Yeah, and that's like, that's a really sensitive area. Yeah. But do you know the, the, the acid, the acid General and the asshole? They're very sensitive areas and we hold a lot of tension there. And it's a very sensitive place for all people to excavate. And I think for men specifically, and specifically, even heterosexual men, who are, you know, fought fighting against the stigma that they're gay if they like that, or they're into men, which has nothing to do with that. And I think a lot of that actually comes from women to have, no, that's gross, I'm not putting my mouth, they're not putting my finger in there. You know, like, in even like, playing into the patriarchy of, of that something gay men like, and I won't do that. And so, you know, it's again, fighting some cultural norms. To get past the point of, of pleasure, the pleasure that's on the other side.
Christine:So that kind of leads me to another question. From several listeners. It was a myth that men only have one erogenous zone, which you kind of got into right now. And, and before when you were talking about, you know, just the skin and just touch and other areas, but specifically, one listener said, is my experience is that I only feel sensual pleasure through my male parts. Or at least I think that's true. And even then, only with partners for whom I have strong feelings. In your work, helping men find their sexual potential. What advice can you give to men who feel sexually limited? Do you have ideas for helping men find new ways to explore sensual pleasure? So how would you help men like that feel kind of more, more vulnerable, I guess, and more open to new experiences.
Shannon:And it also sounds like more connected with other parts of their body? Yeah, so
Court:first, I want to address something that they named, which was, they only feel this with a partner that they have love with. I already have a connection with and so I think, specifically, when I work with gay men, the thought is that I should be this like, sexual Rockstar, gay, and I should be able to have sex with anybody I want and just walk in the room and like, yeah,
Christine:there's a stereotype for him. Yeah,
Court:like a stereotype that really runs through our community in a big way. And the truth is that some people do need, like to feel safe enough and connected with somebody in order to unlock those things in their bodies. And sometimes that's part of the exploration of like, no, there's actually nothing wrong with you, you do not have erectile dysfunction, you actually just need to be connected to
Shannon:your first connection. Yeah,
Court:yeah. What a beautiful discovery to have, you know, you're not going to be able to have casual sex, as easily as, as somebody else. And, you know, find people that you are connected to, in order to enjoy this play more. What was the other part?
Christine:The second part was being able to be beyond look beyond the genitals and try to find pleasure in other parts of, or other aspects of the experience?
Court:Yeah. So there are 30 Plus erogenous zones in the body. And I think, you know, doing like a body mapping is an excellent place to start of asking your partner will you help me map the pleasure centers in my body
Christine:and starting to play? That sounds like a good time.
Court:I often do with clients is, you know, let's find out where your pleasure centers if you, if you don't know are already, but they include the tip of the nose, the eyelids, the ears, the neck, the throat, the underarms of armpits, nipples, the sides of the body, the lower back, the buttocks, asphalt, the perineum or the men we call it the taint. In men, we have the frenulum which is that point just where the head of the penis starts to meet the shaft. In women, the clitoris for men there is the the corona or the head of the penis. And then even just like in the shaft of the penis, noticing, like on one side, and this is common, one side of the penis is more sensitive than the other. And so you would never know that if you didn't have it. That's true. How does it feel when I touch this side? That feels really good. How about over here? Interestingly, it's not that sensitive on the right side. And also like types of sensation, you know, I so I am the co founder of a company called squirm, which is objects for sensory experiences. And we Pamela and I created this company because we felt there was such a huge market for dildos and vibrators and all the things really focused on genitals and there wasn't really any brand that was focused on sensation in the whole body.
Shannon:So it's I mean, interesting, really interesting product, we, we've talked about sensation play, and the importance of touch and touching different zones and erogenous zones and all those things before. But one question that we have gotten from a few of the men that follow us is, you know, in a world where I'm supposed to be masculine, and ask a certain way and behave a certain way in the bedroom, how can I communicate my desire to play a little bit and pay attention to other parts of my body other other than just my genitals?
Court:That's a loaded question.
Christine:It's just communication is really tough,
Court:you know, this goes to your partner, as well of feeling safe enough to come out, if you will, to express desire. And that's, that's a, that's not just a male centered thing that expressing desire and want is very vulnerable and intimate. And it's that question of like, do I feel safe enough to ask my partner this? And I think, you know, partners need to recognize that not everything your partner wants is going to be something you want. But I think, you know, what, what I would recommend, and what I would invite is, even if it's not your thing, to come out of like, wow, I hear that that is really hot for you. And unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to assist you in that. Yeah, and, you know, could I offer you something else? Right? Or, you know, and this goes into another discussion on polyamory and open relationships. But, you know, maybe that's something that you can find another partner to play with. And that's another discussion for another day.
Christine:Yeah. Well, they will have you on for that one, too, because we, we've done one podcast on that, but we definitely are looking to dig deeper at some point. But I think that part of that question is, is being that vulnerable, being able to say, well, it's not just about, you know, about my genitals. And this is where we get into the podcast a little bit about the research court. And the research actually, that's recently published in peer reviewed studies have actually found that men, especially as they get older, do crave that greater intimacy, do crave that emotional connection with partners beyond the physical, you know, sex act, if you will. And, and I will also say, my own research that I'm doing for my dissertation, which is with emerging adults, young people from 18 to 29. I'm finding absolutely no gender differences between motivations to engage in sexual activity, meaning that both men and women say they want to be emotionally connected, both men and women say they want to feel closer, both men and women want to have it be part of, you know, their love relationship. So I think that there is some breaking down of the social norms that that greater emotional intimacy is something that that men want as well, as well as women.
Shannon:Does that include gender, all genders? In your research?
Christine:My research did have some gender fluid folk, but not enough to analyze separately,
Shannon:right. Statistical significance, but still interesting to just observe. Yeah, no differences.
Court:I think that you know, specifically as we start to talk about gender, that, you know, the masculine however you want to describe the masculine I think the masculine trope is that we're supposed to be doing the we're not supposed to be in a receiving place. And so
Christine:that was another question we were getting to so go for it court
Court:can be really vulnerable to be like, you know, what, I need you to take care of me tonight. And I I want to explore sensation in my body with without the expectation that I'm going to fuck you at the end. Without me even gonna, like get back to you. And I think it's worth like, doing both partners saying that of tonight. It's my night. Right? Tonight, it's my night to receive I want to surrender. I don't want to like think about what I'm going to do you next. Can we just focus on my pleasure tonight? You know, that can be really pleasurable for the other partner too. I mean, so many courses around sexuality for men are focused on how to please women. There's not a lot of programs focused around how do I find pleasure in my own body, which kind of speaks to the cultural norm of, you know, just desirability in general and kind of Like meeting, mating rituals of like,
Christine:evolutionary psychology says that, you know, men are supposed to pursue and women are supposed to, you know, be there waiting. And we're the commodity and, and that's actually, you know, part of the reason court, we really wanted to talk to you to kind of give men permission to be receivers,
Court:not just receivers, there are some men that are just not dominant. There are some men that are submissive. And there are some women that are incredibly dominant. And there are humans that are very dominant in their lives, and they're successful, and they run shit. And then they get into the bedroom, and all they want to do is submit and surrender. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, there's power in that. And there's power in that for men. And there's power in that for women, you know, to take that power. You know, there's, I find, there's more and more. You're talking about equanimity, or equality in the genders of getting up into those roles. And I definitely see more and more women stepping into dominant roles.
Christine:Yeah, I would agree. Research shows that to
Court:and men being more comfortable and stepping into more submissive roles. And even still, people like falling into not falling in, but choosing those paths as ways to reclaim their core erotic theme or ways to reclaim their eroticism. And it doesn't mean that there is not shame there. It doesn't mean that there's not cultural norms and societal pressures, like at, at the tip of everything. And, you know, some of those things are what makes it so hot. Right, yeah. So much pushing the edge. Yeah, I mean, so much of kink, and BDSM is based on transgression. And based on version with those things, all those things go against cultural norms. And so it's like, it's that resistance of like, oh, this is not right. And I find it so hot, and I want it anyway. You know, I worked with with someone this year, and they were exploring kink and power dynamics. And one of the exercises we did was to play in power, he was exploring his submissive side. And afterwards, I said, you know, what was what was great about this experience, and what was hard? And the response was, it was really hard when I had to crawl to get the color and bring it back to you. Interesting, I said, Okay. And I said, what was what was really hot about it? He said, What?
Christine:Exactly?
Court:Like, you know, like, I'm a grown man crawling on the floor. This is ridiculous. And wow, this is so hot. It's like skirting that line of, you know, things that are appropriate, inappropriate, and whether I should have them and whether I shouldn't say the internal struggles for all of us.
Christine:It's true. And I think that part of what you're saying is, I'd like to kind of say to our listeners is we've had episodes talking about kink. In fact, we talked to ran a friend who also spoke to you for I know that you know, her from politically ugly side. I think that we can also talk about this ability to give and receive and take turns, even in the vanilla sexual world, that it's it's something that's open to people who maybe you don't want to put on the put on a collar, but you can still take turns. And tonight's my night. Tomorrow's your night and and that itself has a certain eroticism around it to look forward to like, oh, tomorrow's my night, you know?
Court:Yeah. And also just taking turns of who's planning it? You know, do I work with a lot of couples that had been together for like 1530 years, and you know, a lot of times planning their erotic sessions or their sex dates, is is part of like, holding themselves accountable to connecting in that way. And it's like, okay, this week is your turn next week. It's their turn. And what are you going to plan? How are you going to entice? How are you going to invite and making that part of the fun? Have you know, is it a text? Is it a photo? Is it a sexy note? Is it flowers? Is it a little gift? Or is it just you waiting on the bed
Christine:and it can be whatever you choose? Right? I love that and kind of goes back into what you said at the very beginning court that long arousal, that that excitement that can build over days, which, you know, it's something that happens in a new relationship, and the fact that you're speaking to recapturing that in a relationship that's gone on for some time is really quite beautiful,
Shannon:which is interesting, because we actually just had an episode last week for Mental Health Awareness Month. And we talked to a couple who run a therapy practice out of Providence, and they do couples counseling and LGBTQ counseling. And one of the things that they said was that their advice to couples is often not to reinvent the wheel, but to try to rekindle the spark that they have in the beginning, because you'll often find that the things that drew you in in the first place can be found again, rather than having to start over.
Court:Yeah, I love that. I, I also, like, want to just acknowledge that people that have been in relationship for that long are likely not the same humans that they were 30 years ago. And
Christine:I can I've been in a very long term marriage. So I agree, court.
Court:Yeah. And sometimes when you have two people that are growing together, there's a consistency in what the desire is what the want is, because you're constantly communicating. But a lot of times one will kind of branch out and have this huge growth epiphany, or like, lean into desire, and then come back to the other one. And sometimes it's not congruent. You know, one of them might really be into extreme kind of play, and the other one's more vanilla. And it's like, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that, and how can we still find ways to play together and erotic that works for both. And sometimes getting that additional attention or that additional type of play that's desired elsewhere?
Shannon:I think that's important too. And I know you mentioned it earlier, but I think it's worth reiterating that one partner can want one thing and one partner can not want to give that thing and that's okay. You just work to find a compromise, whether that's opening up your relationship polyamory, or exploring different avenues to achieve the same sensation, or the same type of interest or need, but it's sort of like talking about love languages that people have. And if my love languages, you know, words of affirmation and my partner's love languages, physical touch, we can expect that if I give them words of affirmation, they're going to be as pleased as if they give me words of affirmation. So you're allowed to have your own thing, and it's sexual communication, that'll get you to the point of finding out how it works for both of you, or all of you if you're in an open relationship. Definitely.
Christine:So another topic that our listeners of all genders wanted to cover with you court is, well, how do we do this? How do we get out of our heads, because as the as the research shows, it one of the things that impact both women and men is all of this anxiety around the experience. And obviously, for men, it tends to be more about performance, especially as men get older. And for women, a lot of it has to do about about body image and appearance. So or, or even more recently, of being, quote unquote, too much, right? The opposite end of the spectrum, women don't want to be too much. So I'm curious to say first for men, how do you help men get out of their heads in this area?
Court:I see people that are well, there's two types of people that are in their head. One is, you know, they're running, like scripts of shame and guilt and all those things. And then there's the people that are just like so. Very busy minds, and will try to hamsters.
Christine:Hamsters, yes, we
Shannon:call it an hamster in the brain.
Court:And try to rationalize what's going on. Like, for example, if I if I blindfold someone and give them an object, you know, there's the type of person that will feel it and go, This feels soft, I love this, this feels playful. And then the other person will be like, What is this? Is this is this?
Shannon:That one's me?
Christine:Like, do you feel like
Shannon:like, what is this?
Court:Yeah, so the question becomes, you know, can you let go of the story? And can you focus on the pleasure that the object is bringing your hands and then the other taking it a step forward? Can you let go of the story? Can you feel pleasure in what is being provided to you in touch? Can you let go of the story? And can you feel pleasure in your hands in your mouth, in your genitals in your body as you touch someone else? And it becomes a practice of mindfulness? I think so many people are just bored. just bored.
Christine:Oh, really? I mean, that's why their minds are going places.
Court:You look at all the stimulation that's available to us in media. Tell television, on billboards, in cars we're just constantly bombarded with. It's like an accommodation of the senses. And then we get into the bedroom and we expect just to be like,
Shannon:Yeah, I'm fine, nothing affected me, we're good.
Court:You know, and it's going to take something that's, that's different, that that is going to meet the senses where they already are.
Christine:Right, because they're already on that heightened that heightened kind of level that
Court:heightened level and expectation. And so, you know, finding pleasure in the body is this weird mix of relaxation and excitement. In the nervous system, the nervous system has to be relaxed, just enough, and also has to be excited just enough in order to feel arousal in the body. And how you recreate that for yourself is, you start to understand what makes you feel safe enough? Well, it down regulates you enough to where you're not hyperventilating situation, where you feel like you're in fight or flight mode, where it feels like you gotta get out of there, right? It's too scary. So that could include, you know, you might like to create a mood for yourself, whether that's candles or music or soft lighting, or you prefer night or you perform morning, start to like, take notes of all this stuff.
Christine:Be more aware of be more aware of how you feel in different moments.
Court:Yeah, be aware of, if you're a visual person, and you know, they say that men are very visual. And yes, that's true. But I think it's more of a masculine trait. There are women that are incredibly visual, too, they want to watch everything that you're doing, because they're just taking it all in.
Shannon:Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mine, actually, earlier today. And she said that she recently got the advice that if you're having anxiety, do everything you can to turn it into excitement. And I think that that's a good note here.
Court:I mean, me, for many people, they feel the same. You know, when you ask somebody to somatically locate? Where does it feel? Where do you feel anxiety in your body? A lot of times it's in the belly of the stomach, it's just feels like I have grumbling, tummy and, like, upset. And then it's where do you feel excitement in your belly in your body? I feel it in my belly. Feels like butterflies or it feels, you know, like, a little Gartley. It's like very similar feeling. And, you know, the inquiry starts to become, which one is it?
Shannon:Well, it's sort of like the story you told about the person you worked with who said, the hardest part and the most exciting part, the hardest part. And the part that was the hardest, or the same sometimes is anxiety and excitement are two sides of the same coin. It's just a matter of how you flip it.
Christine:Right? That's great. That's beautiful. So and it's good advice for people to feel when they're feeling that anxiety to kind of stop and observe it and realize what is it and maybe I can just cast it aside for excitement. Sounds good.
Court:The other reason that men are feeling anxiety a lot of the time is because they're worried about getting hard. First of all, I'm just gonna say for all the older men, it's totally fine to take a Viagra. That's nothing wrong with it, just take a Viagra and like, let it be that little boost that kind of like, you know, it's like a little sick, a little friend. You know, like a little helper. And, you know, it's also noting to women that and to partners of of men that Viagra is not a substitute for arousal. It is literally something that helps open the capillaries and blood lines in your body to have firmer erections. Somebody who's taking Viagra still has to be aroused to happen. So it's not like a magic pill. It's like a little helper guy will say that. And the other piece is like take just take it off the table. Like take erection, take penetration off the table every once in a while, or make it an option, but not a necessity. And sometimes just doing that is enough to take the worry away. I'm not required here to do that. And so my body's like, just happy. Yeah, and I'm not saying that works every time. But a lot of times it's like just taking the pressure away. And making it a possibility rather than a necessity is enough for for men to let go a little bit and for the erection to happen on its own.
Christine:So it's once again about getting out of getting out of your head. by kind of like, choices that sexual sexuality and sexual activity and sexual play is all about finding the space where you can make choices with your partner into what you feel like in that moment.
Court:Yeah, and I think, too, I think there's this, the thought that men should just are always wanting sex, they should just be ready. And you know, that's not true. Some men need mood, some men need to be seduced. Some men need certain scenarios for things to get them in the mood. And, you know, I hate the question. Are you in the mood? For the question? I much prefer the question. Could you be in the mood? Right? And like, how could you be in the mood?
Shannon:Right? Can we get there? You don't have to be there right now. But can we get there?
Court:Could you try? Can you give me three minutes? And if you're still not feeling it after I'm
Shannon:done? Well, Netflix and chill, yeah.
Court:Then well, Netflix and chill. That's, you know, in our very busy days, and our very busy lives, it's so easy to say I'm tired. I don't have space for that tonight. When in actuality, just a little bit of, you know, soft, erotic touch for some language arousing language might get you to a place where you're like, Huh.
Christine:And on the other end, on the other hand, if it's just five or 10 minutes of erotic touch, that's pretty great, too. Because it's not all always about the end game. It could just be part of your long arousal, which of something might happen a couple of days from now. Exactly. Beautiful. Do you want to talk CT at all about? I understand that you you work with Pamela Matson on retreats for women, but but you also have retreats for men as well. Don't you? Do have
Court:a retreat coming up? In Mexico in San Diego Bay and New Mexico? For GBP GBT Q men on June 7 through the 13th. So cool. I'll be working with another somatic sex educator named Ron Stewart at that retreat.
Christine:Well, it's good to know those those options are available for men to do offer any retreats or similar type programs for heterosexual men.
Court:I do not but I call it a really good colleague of mine named Cosmo means who's also on the staff of back to the body runs a retreat for heterosexual men called the Apollo Project. And I would say it's very similar to the work that I'm doing with gay men very similar to the work that Pam was doing with with predominantly straight women. And they do amazing, amazing things. Awesome.
Christine:We're all we've learned a lot today court. And we really appreciate all the time that you've given us today. I think we covered several myths today.
Shannon:She covered a lot of this today, which was great. And somehow I think that we weren't even expecting to cover I for one honestly did not know that Viagra, you had to be actually go through the process of arousal for it to work. So that was a great myth for me to learn. I mean, not because I'm going to be using Viagra. But because it's actually kind of nice to know that it requires arousal first. So that was a great myth. Thank you for debunking that, first of all. But I think the other main myth that we talked about that obviously turned into a lot of other important debunking was the myth that sex for men is all about penetration, which is just patently untrue, there are so many more aspects to sex for men.
Christine:And I think the second myth might have been, pleasure means only one thing, or there. I think we're gonna have to break down this episode. And we're going to be highlighting an awful lot of things that we both learned about how to make space and how to make space in your body, how to make space in your sensuality. Everybody, everybody squirm. Well, maybe
Court:everybodysquirm.com.
Christine:And so what we like to say on this podcast Court is when we talk about myths we've debunk we like to say, that's another myth. put to bed.
Shannon:Thank you for helping us put another one to bed.
Christine:Thanks for your time. It was it was really awesome to meet you.
Shannon:Court before we sign off, where can our listeners find you?
Court:Sure, you can follow me at court Vox on Instagram. Or you can find me at www dot the body vox.com which is my website. And you can find the toys that I talked about at everybody squirm.com
Shannon:Perfect and we will make sure to link those out in our episode references as well so that folks can find them with ease.
Christine:And I encourage people to follow your blog because you you cover so many topics in such a beautiful, insightful way and they really are. I really enjoy reading them when whenever they come out.
Shannon:Thank you so much. Awesome. Thank you so much. core and thanks everyone for tuning in. And remember to keep tuning in weekly for new episodes of sex ed debunked, and hate. Give us a follow on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, we'd love to hear from you.
Christine:Okay, take care. Bye now. Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of Sex Ed debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities, groups and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities and behaviors are changing and growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.
Shannon:Please remember that all of us, including us, are learning in this area and may occasionally slip up. We ask that we all continue to be kind to one another so that we can create a truly inclusive and accepting environment. As always, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex Ed debunked is produced by trailblaze media along with myself Shannon Curley and Christine Curley from trailblaze media. Our engineering is handled by Ezra winters