Dealing With Idolatry and Setting Boundaries

Emeal Zwayne 1:05

Paul and Mars Hill was . you know , he was dealing with idolatry and he was provoked , which is good , But then he showed us how to handle it .

Mark Spence 1:14

Okay , wait a minute . You built that up and it's a great analogy , right . I mean , your transition is really great . But I can't help but think somebody's on the edge of their seat thinking , well , what do you do when ?

Ray Comfort 1:26

Ant Gertrude comes over and is now showing that . George . George , I had the same thought . I can understand you being upset and going to the apostle Paul from there is like a little drop .

Emeal Zwayne 1:37

Yeah , Well , okay , look , let's touch on that a little bit . We don't know what we're doing anyway , Just do that . I think and this is what I was sharing with this brother I mean , I think that we do have to draw the line somewhere and where we do things and love , And here's the thing . right , We wouldn't ask that question if our sibling was coming over with their new dog husband and we're going to treat them like they're really a couple and they're going to sit and be affectionate in inappropriate ways in front of I mean , you know what I'm saying . Or if one of our relatives says oh , you know , I'm coming over today with my dad , who's also my new husband . Right , I mean we would , and because you're thinking about kids too and normalizing this , And so I don't know .

Mark Spence 2:18

Does this go across the board ? whether they're a Christian , claiming to be a Christian , or a non-Christian , are you saying that you would not allow them to be inside your house Or if your kids weren't there ? depends on the age of the kids .

Emeal Zwayne 2:30

Yeah , i'm saying that . Well , if they claim to be a Christian and they're living in sin , scripture's clear We're not even eat with such a one , right , We're not to have a regular , normal fellowship . We're still to love them and try to reach them , calling them to repentance . If it's an unbeliever , it depends on the context , right ? I mean , am I going to , i think , relatives and close family members , because of how that impacts , especially the next generation ? I think we have to be careful . Gift , gift , wonderful gift . We all love gifts , and if anyone tells you they don't love gifts , they're a big fat liar . You guys have heard people say they don't like gifts . Oh , i don't like gifts . Don't give me gifts , don't give me gifts .

Mark Spence 3:11

Well , it's kind of like you with your birthdays . You don't like anybody to acknowledge your birthday . But is that actually true ?

Emeal Zwayne 3:16

It is true , i don't like people singing happy birthday to me , but you want the gifts on your birthday .

Mark Spence 3:22

Ray , you hate it too , I hate it .

Ray Comfort 3:24

I'd rather people just pop the gift in the driveway and leave .

Emeal Zwayne 3:26

Yeah , give me gifts , Say a nice , quiet , gentle happy birthday , but don't get around me and worship me . As you like candles to me and sing . He's a jelly good fellow .

Mark Spence 3:35

Yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 3:36

But I love gifts and I have a gift in my hand that has forever changed my life , one of the greatest gifts I've ever received , and changed my status . Look at it and weep gentlemen .

Oscar Navarro 3:46

Look at it , look at it And weep , who gave you that yourself , dad joke champion , dad joke champion .

Ray Comfort 3:52

So you bought that for yourself ? No , this is a gift from .

Emeal Zwayne 3:57

Janelyn , my son Luke's girlfriend for Father's Day .

Mark Spence 4:01

The misspelled bad Bad joke champion . That's good , Mark .

Emeal Zwayne 4:05

Oh , i love this thing . And what's more fitting than to tell dad jokes to kick this off ? You don't have to , i will .

Podcast Humor and Impact

Emeal Zwayne 4:15

What did one hat say to the other hat ? Stay here , i'm going on ahead . That really is good . What do you call someone with no body and no nose ? Nobody knows What's the best thing about Switzerland . Yes , i don't know , but the flag is a big plus .

Ray Comfort 4:43

Oh yeah , the educated one , That's good .

Emeal Zwayne 4:46

What did the baby corn say to mama corn ? Where's popcorn ? Oh , it feels so good . Oscar , you know you're laughing inside , So like you , just you could reread the same joke over and over again .

Oscar Navarro 5:00

It gets you every time .

Ray Comfort 5:01

They're so funny , that's true , they all may be funny , so I am the champion .

Emeal Zwayne 5:04

Now , i selected them . They're not original .

Ray Comfort 5:06

I was just going to say Yeah .

Mark Spence 5:08

I was hanging out with my kids the other day and they have so many new words in sling . I think only Oscar would be able to know what those sort of like L-Riz Yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 5:16

And things like . I'm like what You know that same word . They said it to me , the other day , l-riz What ?

Mark Spence 5:21

Or W-Riz Seriously .

Emeal Zwayne 5:23

And I get frustrated and Rachel goes A . They don't do that . We once had weds .

Oscar Navarro 5:26

People didn't know , is it co-oculism ? She still has words . People don't know .

Emeal Zwayne 5:30

That's true .

Oscar Navarro 5:30

That's bussin .

Mark Spence 5:33

And then they just start laughing like oh yeah , they're rolling their eyes forward , but I mean where do words come from , like who gets to decide ? Well , enough people have used this word . Let's put it in the dictionary . Right , yeah , web .

Emeal Zwayne 5:43

Webster's dictionary . Well , you know who shocked me a lot is Oscar , because he used to say the word rad a lot .

Oscar Navarro 5:48

I still say rad , that's a 90 . I'm keeping that one .

Emeal Zwayne 5:50

That was an 80s word . No , no , i thought it was before 80s .

Ray Comfort 5:53

It was before 80s , it was 60s .

Emeal Zwayne 5:56

It's coming back , though You guys said rad , of course .

Ray Comfort 5:58

That's the surfing term .

Emeal Zwayne 5:59

Yeah .

Ray Comfort 5:59

That's like tie-dye is really in .

Oscar Navarro 6:02

Burn And also it's coming back .

Ray Comfort 6:04

They had it in the time of Christ tie-dye .

Mark Spence 6:07

You know I've created a word . I wanted to tick off .

Ray Comfort 6:10

I don't think anybody else has used it . Play journalism .

Mark Spence 6:15

Well , that's true , nobody .

Emeal Zwayne 6:18

That's a really good one , Mark .

Ray Comfort 6:19

How long have your kids been rolling their eyes ? That sounds very strange to me .

Emeal Zwayne 6:24

Oh man , that's crazy , but yeah no rad .

Oscar Navarro 6:28

Yeah , rad's coming back . I held onto it , since I was a kid .

Emeal Zwayne 6:32

They said rad when you were a kid too .

Mark Spence 6:34

Yeah , that was . I think he has a shirt with the word rad . Do you remember the ?

Oscar Navarro 6:39

movie rad Tubular . That's probably where I was . It was the BMX movie , See .

Emeal Zwayne 6:42

That's probably where I was , Also did you guys say like burn in your time , oh , burn or face Remember face Mark .

Emeal Zwayne 6:49

Speak to the hand , talk to the hand . The face don't want to hear it , but you remember face Mark . Oh yeah , oh , face Burn , i got that one . Yeah , we'll teach you a few things We have . We have Comment . By the way , guys , the band is back together again . It's been a while . It's been a while . Yeah now , friends , you may not know , we may have deceived you . You may think we record these Instantly every week . We don't . You're letting them behind .

Emeal Zwayne 7:14

Yeah , I'm letting them behind the curtain . They're seeing the Wizard of Oz . Yeah , we pre-record these . We can't do them all like on the fly , so there's times we take breaks , but we have some in the can , and it's been a while . A Few weeks Oscar and I were at NRB in Florida .

Ray Comfort 7:29

This is on the fly in the can you like that on the fly in the can Sounds like the tea I had this morning Sounds like insect repellent .

Emeal Zwayne 7:38

Mark , you're in England twice .

Mark Spence 7:40

I was in England twice within a month .

Ray Comfort 7:42

He left something there . Ray , you were in what ?

Oscar Navarro 7:45

you were in Serena's right back to you .

Ray Comfort 7:48

Saratoss , i'm not moving away from home .

Emeal Zwayne 7:51

Yeah , you've been reveling Ray and being home after Ken Ham told .

Ray Comfort 7:55

I'm even a feet up watching TV when he's stuck in an airport .

Emeal Zwayne 7:58

Oh , yeah , poor guy , all for mate-pies . All right , friends . We have a comment .

Ray Comfort 8:04

This is for that necessary .

Emeal Zwayne 8:06

Very much so one more time Faith has faith in Christ . That's a cool title there for them life changing . I'm 15 years old and love this podcast . Each and every one of you did something different in my life . Easy . You made me realize how important it is to have a good Christian husband . You talk about you and Rachel and the things you did and It makes me want someone who will treat me as you treat Rachel Ray . The biggest way you impacted me is with my passion to spread the gospel . I always knew I would go on a mission trip at least , but you brought that to a higher level . You're my role model , mark . You remind me of my dad and my grandpa and my great , great , great , great great .

Mark Spence 8:49

I'm adding , and I never met them .

Emeal Zwayne 8:52

My dad and my grandpa , both very passionate and wise . You have taught me so much and I find myself Throughout the day of quoting you .

Mark Spence 9:00

That's just like , it right , hello , oscar Oscar .

Emeal Zwayne 9:06

Oscar , i detest everything about you . Oscar , i love your humor . The biggest thing I think you've helped me with is a realization that prayer impacts . God listens . You told the story of your grandma and how she would always pray for you , and here you are now . I've been praying for many people ever since . Thank you all so much for everything you taught me . Wow , that's a great one . Yeah , you're gonna cry . Thank you so much . Faith has faith in Christ . Awesome , that was really a blessing . Yeah , my man ,

Paul on Mars Hill, Cultural Challenges

Emeal Zwayne 9:39

all right . Francis podcast has brought you by the starter kid Man . The starter kid's been doing well right , i love this .

Oscar Navarro 9:47

If you've ever broken down on the side of the road , the starter .

Ray Comfort 9:53

You know , you're broken down . You need the starter . Kid put those Answers in general just ordered a hundred of them , which was encouraging . So yeah yesterday .

Emeal Zwayne 10:01

Yeah , they . But we even recently we were emailing about just different resources and how they're doing , and this one is just really doing well , it took off .

Ray Comfort 10:09

This was your idea , right .

Emeal Zwayne 10:11

Yeah , one of your few . Very good , no , it is doing really well . And friends , this contains million dollar bills , ten commandment coins , comic Are you a good person ? a small version and 101 of the world's funniest one-liners 350 tracks total .

Oscar Navarro 10:27

It'll get you started , yeah , if you don't listen . If you've been listening to the podcast and you feel encouraged to start proclaiming the gospel and you Don't know where to start , this is literally the best place to start . Often you might have like choice anxiety . Going to our website and seeing so many tracks Available , you might be wondering which one is the right one for you . Honestly , we don't know which one's the right one for you . Whatever one you find most comfortable and the one you enjoy handing out most it's different for everybody , but a great place to start is the starter cake , because it's some of our more popular ones . Once you start there , you'll discover which ones right for you and you'll you'll start handing out tracks .

Emeal Zwayne 11:03

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Oscar Navarro 11:40

Oscar , what in the world ? Wednesday night I tore a ligament between these two fingers here Basketball listening when you say these make us plain basketball playing basketball .

Emeal Zwayne 11:50

Dude , you're destroying your life with basketball .

Oscar Navarro 11:52

It's not two fingers , so here's what happens if okay , so yeah , for those who can't see , my ring finger is currently taped to my middle finger , Because if I go like this with this hand , this one just flops up and down .

Ray Comfort 12:04

This doesn't mean anything and you're gonna keep playing basketball , right ?

Oscar Navarro 12:07

Yeah , I played last night .

Ray Comfort 12:10

I still .

Emeal Zwayne 12:13

Walk in here . One day my head fell off , but I gotta go play basketball .

Oscar Navarro 12:17

Yeah , i played yesterday , yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 12:19

All right , friends . There you have it , man , lots of good stuff . But today we are talking about Paul , or , as we say in Arabic , boulos , bullos , bullos That sounds like that , i think I think that in Spanish It's a woolos but in Arabic bullos . Paul on Mars Hill had attacked fully reach a pagan .

Ray Comfort 12:38

I want to know who my was and why did she have a hill ?

Emeal Zwayne 12:41

Where's Mars Hill ?

Ray Comfort 12:43

I've been on Mars .

Emeal Zwayne 12:44

That's the problem , ray , because you guys blend in ours with a lot of your words . You think that that's how we would say it here .

Ray Comfort 12:50

That's how you're supposed to say it Mars .

Emeal Zwayne 12:52

Mars , mars . And every time I try to remember the words you guys blend ours with , i can't remember them . Ma , i try to catch Rachel whenever she does the car in the dark mark . Now , not that one , park the car . Why can't you say it normally say park , park , park , impossible . All right guys . Paul on Mars Hill was , paul in Mars Did you always crack right there , yes .

Oscar Navarro 13:17

It was I just want to know when , when Ray talks about lines roaring , do they actually not roar , or ?

Emeal Zwayne 13:31

So , guys , paul on Mars Hill , you know this is probably one of the sermons that you've quoted most .

Ray Comfort 13:38

Ray , yeah , at least part of it , love it .

Emeal Zwayne 13:40

God now commands all men every way to repaint , repaint , repaint and then no more . But this is really a phenomenal Passage of scripture because it gives us a glimpse .

Ray Comfort 13:51

So there are passages that aren't phenomenal ?

Emeal Zwayne 13:53

Yes , Yes , in the Quran Mormon . But it gives us a glimpse into fly on the wall Experiences of one of the greatest men that ever walked the earth . Preaches Not as good .

Ray Comfort 14:09

There's no to be on the wall . It's always a fly . Why is it a fly ? right by the most creature you can imagine .

Oscar Navarro 14:15

Well , i've you just to be a Nat in your food , i Yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 14:19

Yeah , so Paul and Mars Hill , i mean , this is such a great example for us who are living in hyper-paganized times to really get a grasp on . Hey , how do we relate to the culture ? My biggest struggle , honestly , is , i don't know , it's anger , it's lack of compassion We've talked about that a lot , you know a lot but Towards your hosts Always . But you know , when we're seeing such rampant sin and debauchery and blasphemy toward the Lord , and especially when it gets into things like you know what we've been seeing lately reassignment surgery , you know , as kids are being mutilated , it really does . Just , i do wrestle sometimes Like Lord , how do we deal with that ?

Emeal Zwayne 15:05

I was talking with a brother this morning and we were talking about how do you deal with family members that are , you know , beginning to go in the direction of homosexuality or transgenderism . How do you relate to that ? Where do you draw the line ? Like , do you just hang out with them like it's normal ? Do you let your you know your sister who's been your kid's aunt since they were little and now they're 5 , 6 , 7 , do you let her come over And her name is George now and she's got a beard and like , what do you do ? Like , how do you handle these things ?

Emeal Zwayne 15:36

And we're getting more and more desensitized . If I met who George , i'll bring her over , him over . In the midst of trying to figure out what to do , i also find myself getting unrighteously angry and agitated in a way that I shouldn't , because I lose focus of the lost and where they're at and what's going on . You know , and so Paul , and Mars Hill was , you know . He was dealing with idolatry and he was provoked , which is good , but then he showed us how to handle it .

Mark Spence 16:07

Okay , wait a minute . You built that up and it's a great analogy , right . I mean , your transition is really great . But I can't help but think somebody's on the edge of their seat thinking , well , what do you do when ?

Ray Comfort 16:19

Aunt Gertrude comes over and is now showing up . That'll be George . I have the same thought . I can understand you being upset , and going to the apostle Paul from there is like a little drop .

Emeal Zwayne 16:29

Yeah , well , okay , look , let's touch on that a little bit . We don't know what we're doing . Anyway . I think and this is what I was sharing with this brother , i mean , i think that we do have to draw the line somewhere and where we do things in love . And here's the thing right , we wouldn't ask that question if our sibling was coming over with their new dog husband and we're going to treat them like they're really a couple and they're going to sit and be affectionate in inappropriate ways in front of I mean , you know what I'm saying . Or if one of our relatives says oh , you know , i'm coming over today with my dad , who's also my new husband , because you're thinking about kids too and normalizing this . So I don't know .

Mark Spence 17:10

Does this go across the board whether they're a Christian , claiming to be a Christian , or a non-Christian . Are you saying that you would not allow them to be inside your house or if your kids weren't there ? depends on the age of the kids .

Emeal Zwayne 17:21

Yeah , I'm saying that . Well , if they claim to be a Christian and they're living in sin , scripture's clear we're not even eat with such a one , right ? We're not to have a regular , normal fellowship . We're still to love them and try to reach them , calling them to repentance . If it's an unbeliever , it depends on the context , right ? I mean , am I going to , I think , relatives and close family members , because of how that impacts , especially the next generation , I think we have to be careful .

Emeal Zwayne 17:47

It depends on the age of the kids , obviously , yeah , i don't know how much I would allow it to be normalized Like , yeah , come over and let's just act like this is normal and fine . One of my kids got forbid . Hey Dad , i'm a girl . Now one of my sons call me Linda and say she and I can't do it . I won't do it , you know . And this is the problem , like I think we've been so desensitized that immediately people are like oh , that's not really nice , that's not loving . And I think the nicest and most loving thing I can do is be real and not go along with their fantasy . That is destructive .

Ray Comfort 18:22

So they can go to kids' home and take them out for a meal and witness to them for the meal and make it a long meal .

Emeal Zwayne 18:28

Yeah , and look , i'm not against . we got to educate our kids . Society around us , of course , is changing . They need to learn how to interact in that realm . But there is an age at which you know I think it's both an age and a principle , too Like there is a principle about not giving them the sense like this is you approve of it and this is all fine , you're going to go on like it's normal , you know .

Mark Spence 18:48

We're going on a tangent right , i mean . I think we definitely need to address this on a future podcast , because I think this is the culture , this is the day and age , this is our society and it is being rammed down our throats , yeah Right . So we are seeing secularists leave secular school systems because of this issue Not just Christians , not even those who are religious in any way , shape or form , but it is very prevalent in today's culture . We have to address it on a future podcast .

Oscar Navarro 19:14

I'm going to bring it back to Paul , because I think where you started was really good , which is we tend to live in the tyranny of the immediate . The tyranny of the immediate is by looking around at the news cycles , at the reels of the very real things that are happening now , and we think like man , we live in unprecedented times . You know , you use the phrase hyperpaganistic and we think like that . We've never seen this before , the world has never been in it , and it could just feel like the tyranny of the immediate , like , oh man , this is the worst it's ever been

Christianity's Birth in a Pagan Culture

Oscar Navarro 19:49

. But as we look at the scriptures and as we understand church history , what we find is that the birth of Christianity was born into a pagan culture . That makes our pagan culture look minor , minute , look mild . Right , you had Nero the Caesar . Essentially , he was married to a woman , but he also had a openly male sexual partner . That's like the president of the United States being in a polygamous relationship with both male and female . While we could argue that that might one day happen , that wasn't a conspiracy theory , that wasn't under the radar , it wasn't like big news . It was simply a part of his right as a Roman male citizen to have a male sexual partner . And so the point I'm making here is that we can actually find hope that the early church thrived in an anti-Christian culture , far more anti-Christian to us .

Oscar Navarro 20:50

And Acts 17 puts on display how Paul presents the gospel in slightly different ways when he goes to people in the church and he goes to people outside the church . And that's one of the reasons why I love Acts 17 , because in this same chapter we've got Paul arguing from the scriptures when he's talking to the Jew , but then we see him in the Greco-Roman world and it doesn't say he's arguing from the scriptures . Instead , he chooses to quote their own poets to point them towards truth . So the gospel never changes , without a doubt , but the way in which we proclaim the gospel can shift a little bit based off of our audience , and that's what Paul displays here in Acts 17 . You've got the cloth to fit .

Emeal Zwayne 21:38

Yeah , there you go . Yeah , and Ray , i'd love you to chime in on this point . We're talking about what is grotesque sin , obviously a Romans one type depravity , but in light of what Paul's doing here on Mars Hill and we'll get into the text but he's addressing idolatry . We can't downplay the severity of idolatry in the sight of a holy God .

Ray Comfort 22:03

I tell you he's the root cause of all sin . When it comes down to it And I've often said , people like Richard Dawkins are idolaters by nature . They're not atheists . He's got a wrong concept of what God is like . He's gone through the Old Testament and created a God that's ghastly horrific , taking it all the judgments and wrath of God and says well , that's what you guys like , i don't want anything to do with him , and he's thrown out the God of his own creation . But the God of the Bible is balanced in nature . He's just and holy and love and mercy . So when anyone gives themselves to sin , it's obvious they don't fear God . Because they don't fear God because they've got their own concept . Psalm 50 , i think it is says you thought that I was altogether such and one as yourself , and so people really do think God is wearing pink nighties , got long hair , sitting on a cloud , playing , touch fingers with Adam .

Oscar Navarro 22:48

I see what you did there , hmm . There's not one in the image Pink nighty .

Ray Comfort 22:54

You look at his pink , it's Michael Angeau . I was just having , he had a propensity for a pink nighty .

Emeal Zwayne 22:59

I love that description right .

Oscar Navarro 23:00

Well , just to go on what Rage has said too , by the way , calvin has this quote where he says that , where he says you know , the reason why the first two of the Ten Commandments addresses idolatry is because it is the root of all sin . If we didn't have idolatry , the rest of the commandments wouldn't be necessary .

Emeal Zwayne 23:16

Oh , that's true , yeah , and Mark . Often we're deceived into thinking idolatry is merely the bowing down before a sculpted image , but it takes all kinds of forms with whatever we put before God .

Mark Spence 23:29

Yeah Well , it definitely starts inside the mind , right , we saw that thought . It reaps in action . So it is in the place of imagery inside of our mind where we listen . If you're not meditating through God's word , you're going to believe lies are true . So this is why it is so important to meditate day and night through God's word , because it is not difficult to stray from the truth of God's word . Remember , we are sanctified by his truth . His word is truth . We must always go there . You know , as we're talking about Mars Hill here , it's important to know that Mars Hill was a place where you would have different people come together and they would discuss philosophy and religion .

Mark Spence 24:05

I was reading an interesting thing about this earlier , that Mars Hill was the Roman name for a hill in Athens , greece called the Hill of Ares . I've been on it . Ares was the Greek God of war according to Greek mythology , And this hill was the place where Ares stood trial before the other gods for the murder of Poseidon's son . In other words , here's the apostle Paul going up to wage war against the culture and the society and the philosophy and vain religion of the day . And that is exactly what happens when we go open air preaching . When we go to contend for the faith in an open square , we are waging war , recognizing that there is a spiritual battle at play . Yeah , so we cannot take it as a light thing . Well , i'm just going to kind of proclaim the gospel Note get ready . You need to guard yourself because this spiritual battle is way stronger than any physical battle will ever come across .

Emeal Zwayne 25:00

Amen . I was also in my research mark reading that the Areopagus , which we call Mars Hill , was really kind of the supreme court of that day And that's where people would come together for civil , criminal , religious matters even , and so Paul was using that as a springboard . I mean , that's what we used to do , you guys remember , back in the day , with the courthouse , people standing in line waiting to go into court , and we would tie that in And that's what Paul was doing , and people would gather there . They talk about religious things , philosophy , the issues of the day , and so it's like you couldn't have set up a better scenario or a better location for an open air preacher than this . I mean , we're always dreaming about places . Where can we go ? This was like . This is kind of like almost like the square , but on steroids , dad , back in the day , yeah .

Ray Comfort 25:47

I mean , you think of Paul's courage . He's gone alone , yeah , he's not going with a bunch of guys to encourage him , to pray for him . He's there alone , isn't he ?

Emeal Zwayne 25:55

Yeah , yeah .

Ray Comfort 25:55

Yeah .

Mark Spence 25:56

That's what we know for sure .

Emeal Zwayne 25:57

Yeah . So let me read the text . It's Acts 17 , 16 to 32 . And then we'll jump in on different sections of it . Now , while Paul waited for them at Athens , his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols . So that's a first note there . right , it's okay to be provoked , and we should be . Anything that grieves God's heart should grieve ours . Therefore , he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers , and in the marketplace , daily , with those who happened to be there . Now , ray , that should be the heart of every Christian , shouldn't it That ? longing to want to see people brought out of darkness and light . So we reason with them .

Ray Comfort 26:31

Absolutely . I love the word reason . Paul reasoned with Felix and Felix trembled , because judgment becomes reasonable when you open up that law . And that's what Paul did when he met the Jews to the Jew , he became a Jew To others . He opened up the law , as we see in this sermon . And when the law does its work it really makes people tremble because the neuron personal earthquake , like the Philippian jailer , because suddenly it makes sense , like an echo goes in the mind oh no , this could be true .

Emeal Zwayne 27:02

Amen , all right . So it goes on to say . then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him and some said what does this babbler want to say ? Don't you love that as babbler ? Terrible , but it's funny though , like that's kind of how we appear to the world . You know , once you come to Christ and your eyes are open , you really do see your folly from the past . but to the world we sound like we're just a bunch of idiots .

Mark Spence 27:26

Yeah Well , the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing , you know ? let me point out something here in Acts 1726 , where we see the apostle Paul , he says for one man , he made every nation of men and that they should inhabit the whole earth and he determined the time set for them in exact places where they should live . What Paul is doing here is something that I think we need to do more within our gospel proclamation , and that is who are we talking about ? And that is he is starting with the God of the Bible . Yeah , he can go very deep concerning the character and the attributes of God , and right here , he just eliminates all gods , all idolaters , all anybody and everybody that is going to think that they have a right handle on who God is , by just saying the God of the heavens and the earth . No , the creator of the heavens and the earth . This is the one that I proclaim to you , and I think that we would do , did you want to say that again , Oscar drops his phone .

Mark Spence 28:22

Sorry man , I'm pulling up .

Oscar Navarro 28:24

I was pulling up my digital Bible and then dropped my phone .

Mark Spence 28:26

Yeah , i just think that we would do a better job if you would that , if we go off on the character of God when we start going through the gospel message itself , because it eliminates all other gods .

Ray Comfort 28:37

So the common argument against Christianity by many atheists is there are so many gods , but there's only one creator , and that eliminates all the other man-made gods . There's one creator . He's the one that spoke the heavens and the earth into existence .

Oscar Navarro 28:51

My man . Let me point out , too , that Paul recognizes that these pagan people are religious , and that's really important because we are all ultimately religious , as we were talking about before , that we all have . the whole world is full of false idolatry . And so to say that .

Ray Comfort 29:07

True idolatry .

Oscar Navarro 29:07

True idolatry , for the culture to come back and say we're not religious . one of the things that's really valuable for us is to help them recognize how we are all worshiping something We are all created to worship . In other words , the question isn't whether or not you are worshiping . The question is always what are you worshiping ? And Paul understood that . he went into a pagan culture and pointed out the false idolatry that's in there . And it's the same thing the secularist , the atheist , the regular old guy who's hustling and bustling with his career . everybody is worshiping something And in order for them to come to the belief and knowledge that Jesus is their Lord and Savior , they have to put to death those false idols , repent from them and turn to the one true God which is our Lord and Savior .

Emeal Zwayne 29:58

Because we were created to worship . I think when we put it to people like that , oscar , that everyone worships everything , i think there's something in their heart that bears witness with them . They recognize oh wow , that kind of is what I'm doing , you know , and I think the Lord can use that to open their eyes . Oh , absolutely .

Ray Comfort 30:14

Yeah , so you cannot serve God and man when you look at what money does . Money takes precedent over God , becomes the supplier of our needs , becomes our supplier of peace and joy , in believing that money can protect me and take care of me in the future .

Emeal Zwayne 30:29

Yeah , Yeah , that's what happens . We turn from God being the source of supply for every need and we begin to look to other things . and they do become our gods , but again people at the same time deny that because they have a misconception of what worship is . Again they envision it as bowing down and doing some kind of religious practice . But no , it's the devotion of your heart and your life and your time and your energy to something before God .

Oscar Navarro 30:57

Yeah , this is how Augustine talked about it .

Oscar Navarro 31:00

He talked about sin as disordered loves . In other words , augustine said that we were all lovers at heart and our issue in the world is that we love the wrong things in the wrong way at the wrong time . And so you think about . You know , actually I have a friend who's incredibly successful in business , but he got so enamored with his success that he ultimately created an altar , which we would call business , and sacrificed his wife and children on that altar . And now he's dealing with divorce and he's dealing with the repercussions of his kids going through , you know , this destruction in their family , and all because he pursued success in a way that it became his God . Or to put it in Augustine's way , he loved money , he loved his reputation so much that he devalued the love of his family . And so what Augustine argues is that , in what we talk about , false idolatry is ultimately a rearranging of our loves , and the first priority is the love of God , and then , once that becomes your primary love , everything else begins to be rearranged in the right , orderly fashion

Evangelism and Engagement With Cultural Elites

Oscar Navarro 32:08

.

Ray Comfort 32:08

Shakespeare said flee ambition , for by such sin fell the angels .

Mark Spence 32:12

Oh , that's good . That's good . Now you know , tozer . He said Christians don't tell lies , they just go to church and sing them .

Emeal Zwayne 32:20

Oh , I got to put that in my notes , man . Yeah , Wow , Oscar , great quotes . Augustine was brilliant . And then it went on to say here other said I thought we got over it .

Ray Comfort 32:29

Oh , no , no , no , never , never .

Mark Spence 32:32

We just passed this . It's going to be the death of you easy .

Emeal Zwayne 32:34

Never , never . What does this babbler want to say ? Others said he seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods , because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection . And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus saying may we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak ? Oh , to have sinners bring us and tell us , tell me , so we can stone you to death . The trap . But , guys , seriously though , we've had those very , very rare moments where people have said that And that's what happened in England .

Mark Spence 33:02

Yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 33:03

Mark , can you just tell us that , because this ties in all this .

Mark Spence 33:06

Well , listen to my embarrassment , to my shame . I took them to the end , as I normally do when going through the gospel , and there were people , person after person , just saying all right , so what do I do exactly to become a Christian ?

Emeal Zwayne 33:20

Now , this was on your second trip . We talked a little bit before on your first , so you went again and you were there with doing an academy for water Right .

Mark Spence 33:27

We have our master's academy with John Harris , and so I was talking to different people and I remember this one lady specifically . She was saying so , what do I got to do ? And I said well , you need to cry out to God . I mean cry , cry out to God . What do you mean by that ? I go , well , you need to be willing to , you need to turn from your sins and you need to place your trust in Christ . Okay , but what does that look like ? What do I ? what do you mean by that ? Well , you got to be born again , born again , all right . So it didn't matter what angle I took , she was just , she was eating it up And at the same time , I was at a loss for words .

Mark Spence 34:02

I was not ready for that , for her to continually drill me , and she wasn't . She didn't mean anything by that , right , oscar , she was . She was simply saying all right , i have two little kids here with me and I want to lead them . What does it mean to be born again ? Lay it out very simply , very clearly . And it didn't matter what angle I took , i was just like at a loss . I could listen , all right . Hey , hey , hey , listen , go get alone with the Lord . Well , will you watch the kids ? Okay , listen It . Just it was . It was beautiful .

Ray Comfort 34:35

She was a natural English citizen .

Mark Spence 34:37

Is that normally ?

Ray Comfort 34:38

very conservative .

Mark Spence 34:39

Yeah , oh , i don't know , i didn't ask her She sounded .

Ray Comfort 34:41

Did she speak English ?

Mark Spence 34:42

She sounded like your wife .

Emeal Zwayne 34:44

Oh , okay , very English . Was she from Bonsley , bonsley A ?

Ray Comfort 34:48

Northern District I .

Emeal Zwayne 34:50

Wow , mark , that's so , that's just so awesome . I love that . And you know we did the 13 countries in 13 days , way back when , and you know there's a lot of complacency in Europe , a lot of kind of whatever .

Ray Comfort 35:02

So it's just I had to think of what Mark was saying . when the Philippian jailer called out what my students be saved and forces believe on the Lord Jesus , did he say what do you mean believe ?

Emeal Zwayne 35:10

What does that mean ? Who's going ?

Ray Comfort 35:12

to look out for prisoners .

Emeal Zwayne 35:14

Yeah , But anyway , that's , that's just great . So what were ?

Ray Comfort 35:17

you saying when interrupted really easy , You forgotten .

Emeal Zwayne 35:19

I don't remember It's gone . No , just saying there was so much complacency there . It's so , so refreshing to see someone you know , especially when , when you know they're engaged , like give me someone , even if they're not necessarily positive , give me someone antagonistic any day over , someone who's just like you know , you know what I found working more than one-on-ones was open air preaching . Yeah .

Mark Spence 35:40

Open air preaching , with people on the outside on the outskirts watching and listening to preacher after preacher , after preacher .

Ray Comfort 35:46

So we told them about you .

Mark Spence 35:48

And yeah , they're specifically in London and central London and then up near Lincoln where we had our Academy , where they have our Academy every year . That's awesome , Love it . People listening and people not wanting to really engage until afterwards , where people would go up and talk to them .

Oscar Navarro 36:03

They were listening to the gospel , that's great , just real quick , because you mentioned the Academy multiple times and we have the Ambassador's Academy here . Easy , do you want to explain to our listeners what the Academy is ?

Emeal Zwayne 36:13

Yeah , the Academy has been going on for a long time . It's number 27 , isn't it 28 ?

Emeal Zwayne 36:16

Yeah , it's so many we've done over the years And basically people come from all over the country , some from different parts of the world . We limit it to . It used to be 50 . We opened it to 100 . And so we have very intensive focus training where we're in the classroom for a few days teaching practical elements of sharing the gospel And then we go out on the streets and we actually do it . We have team leaders , people broken up into teams . It's one of the highlights of our ministry .

Emeal Zwayne 36:42

I mean , this is how Eddie Roman , our producer , came to be a part of Living Waters . He was stirred about evangelism , looked it up , learned about the Academy , came , experienced it and then became a passionate evangelist , now part of the ministry . So , yeah , look on our website . We announce whenever those are happening . So in fact , we have one in town now , so we're excited . May we know what this doctrine is of which you speak , for You are bringing some strange things to our ears . Therefore , we want to know what these things mean For all the Athenians and foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or hear some new thing .

Ray Comfort 37:16

And we think what a pack of idiots sitting around waiting for a new thing . And we have a news media that just inundates us through television , through social media , where news sounds . And I'm the same , i want to find out what's new , what's news , what's news , what's happening .

Emeal Zwayne 37:28

Yeah .

Ray Comfort 37:29

And we just if it's new , we want to hear it . If it's like an hour old , it's gone , Forget it .

Emeal Zwayne 37:33

Well , and this should stir us to say let's fill that void , right ? I mean , people want that . Let's bring in the good news of the gospel . It's new News .

Oscar Navarro 37:44

I think it's important to recognize that these are the cultural elites of the Roman , the Greco-Roman world . Yeah , and it might sound weird where it's like well , how could the cultural elites be sitting around doing nothing up into that point ? They had their phones .

Oscar Navarro 37:56

They had their phones with them , that's right Up into that point your elevation of status was all about how much time you had to philosophize . So in our cultural precedents you are considered more value the busier that you are If you're an attorney or whatever the case , and you're running a business the busier you are , the more it seems like you are of value and worth . But in the Greco-Roman world the cultural elites got to a place where they're hired servants to take care of all of the busy work and they got to sit around and philosophize and plan legal proceedings and matters and things of that nature . So Paul is talking to the cultural elites in Athens at this point .

Emeal Zwayne 38:36

Yeah , the intellectuals . Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said men of Athens , i perceive that in all things you are very religious , for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship , i even found an altar with this inscription to the unknown God . So let's just pause there real quick . When we , especially as evangelicals , hear the word religious , it kind of makes us bristle a little bit , right , a little bit . Yeah , but this was a compliment . I mean , paul was complimenting them . He wasn't like you guys are religious . Just for anyone listening who has that lodged in their minds . He starts off with this tact . He's not . He was provoked , obviously . He was grieved by the idolatry , but he didn't get up , you stupid pagans you know , and start rallying on them . Ray , how important is it to be congenial and civil and tactful when we preach the gospel ? So we know that there are some who do the shock and awe method , where they get up and just blast people like crazy .

Ray Comfort 39:35

If you want to be heard and you want people to receive your message , you've got to do what the scriptures say and not strive , but be gentle to all men and meekness , instructing those that oppose themselves . And so it's essential to watch your tone , especially with your opening words . You know to show respect , and often I stood up on Waikiki This is 1986 , a group of American people wanted me to teach them how to evangelize women straight to Waikiki , and I had to preach to this bathers on the beach as they sat there , and I thought how am I going to start this ? And so I just said you know , it just seems like a wonderful dream to be lying on the beach at Waikiki and want a nightmare for some preacher to stand up and preach to you . But please bear with me , i'll be really quick . I've got something super important to share with you , and I remember a police officer came up to me and he said eight people have complained . I thought I'd better come across and say something .

Ray Comfort 40:29

So , he waited for eight people to complain before he said anything . So I had about about 10 minutes of just going through the gospel and thanking them for listening . And just go back to your dream . The nightmare is over . Is that the ?

Emeal Zwayne 40:40

one with the picture of you standing on the trash can ?

Ray Comfort 40:42

It's around that same time , Yeah standing on the trash can .

Mark Spence 40:48

And it says trash .

Emeal Zwayne 40:49

Yes .

Ray Comfort 40:49

Because I remember when a police officer came up to me when I was standing on that trash bin , he said you cannot stand on the trash bin . I was going to say , god , i stand in it . But I did it . I didn't . I said , yeah , i'm off .

Oscar Navarro 41:00

Let me point out also what Paul's doing here , which he's finding common ground . A part of being reasonable and winsome with the gospel is to find common ground , And what we know about common ground is that people tend to be more willing to change their minds on things they don't agree with you on if you first find common ground with them on things you do agree upon . And that's what Paul's doing here . He's finding a common ground with them . He's beginning to sort of woo them with reason over to the one true God by starting with recognizing something that they're doing .

Ray Comfort 41:37

Yeah that's going to sound a little dumb but I do that with dogs all the time . I take my dog and his immediate common ground with people , immediate common ground .

Emeal Zwayne 41:45

You're saying your reason with your dogs in front of you . No , I don't .

Ray Comfort 41:49

Creeching the gals wherever you're creaching . No , i've just got my dog there and people come up and say do you have a dog ? What sort is it ? You know , da , da , da , yeah , and I've got immediate common ground .

Emeal Zwayne 41:58

Man , you know what ? It's not hard to be a nice person .

Mark Spence 42:02

Why don't you do it ? Yeah , goodness me .

Emeal Zwayne 42:04

No , i'm serious , Like especially now we've talked about it before how , how customer service has just gone down the drain since COVID , you know . And just people are so not nice And it doesn't take a lot of work , just a smile , a friendly compliment , and we need to learn from that . With unbelievers , rami , you've talked about it before . There have been times when you've walked up to someone , try to get them attracted . I think it happened with Arnold And you ended up learning just to greet someone first . Yo , i was struck that day . Yeah , good thing you weren't struck by a star .

Ray Comfort 42:37

I know The thing is I couldn't have said to him I love your movies because I've never seen one .

Emeal Zwayne 42:43

I do never seen an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie . No .

Ray Comfort 42:44

I've seen little things with a mook going .

Emeal Zwayne 42:46

I'll be back .

Ray Comfort 42:47

And all this sort of stuff . But I've never seen a whole movie because they're pretty nasty . So I probably would have said hi Arnold , i like your wife . Oh man , next wife now .

Engaging the Lost With Common Ground

Oscar Navarro 43:00

Give an example of common ground . I don't know if I've shared this story before , but this one time I was walking out of a store and there was a group of young ladies there And they were in green piece type shirts . I think it was like Save the Dolphins Green piece Green piece I knew you couldn't let that go .

Emeal Zwayne 43:14

I can't say it .

Ray Comfort 43:17

Izzy , what do you read ?

Mark Spence 43:17

me so well I actually love this story from Moss Girl okay .

Oscar Navarro 43:25

So she's like hey , can I tell you about dolphins or something like that . And honestly , in that moment I didn't want to care about dolphins . I don't care about dolphins , no offense to the dolphin lovers who are out there . And I say to her It tastes like chicken .

Ray Comfort 43:41

Terrible .

Oscar Navarro 43:44

But I was convicted , because here's this moment to proclaim the gospel . And so I say to her yeah , you tell me about dolphins as long as afterwards I can tell you about Jesus . And she kind of like , okay , so she goes on this 10 minute conversation about dolphins that are being slaughtered , and it was compelling . She wanted me to sign something And I don't know much about the law , but I knew that what she was coming from was maybe more of a liberal position And so , while I sympathized with her concern over dolphins , i wasn't really ready to sign the document .

Oscar Navarro 44:17

But when she was done I didn't get into some like big argument about liberalism and conservatism and politics .

Oscar Navarro 44:24

Instead I was like , hey , in a way you're doing the Lord's work . And she was like , huh , i said , well , in the scriptures God calls us to steward the land well , to care for his creation , and if there's this thing happening to dolphins that is atrocious to God's beautiful created order , then you advocating for that to stop is , in a way , doing the Lord's work . And I began to use that as sort of a common ground launching pad into how all the work we do is leading up to Jesus coming back and reconciling the world to himself making all the wrong things right , and ultimately , i ended with telling her like the only world that you'll ever live in where all of these wrong things are made right is heaven . And then we got into the gospel . From there is , basically , you know where are you going to go and you die , and so the point is , there's ways in which we can find common ground in these conversations with people that draw them into the promises of the gospel .

Emeal Zwayne 45:28

That's good . I love that , oscar , and that's exactly what we need to do . We need to again show tack . So let me we're almost out of time , but let me just give us that example through what Paul did . So he said , for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship , i even found an altar with this inscription to the unknown God . I mean , these guys were so idolatrous in case we missed one , let's just make sure we cover our bases .

Emeal Zwayne 45:50

What's baseball have to do with this ?

Emeal Zwayne 45:51

Therefore , the one whom you worship without knowing him , i proclaim to you God who made the world and everything in it , since he is Lord of heaven and earth , does not dwell in temples made with hands , nor is he worshiped with men's hands as though he needed anything , since he gives to all life breath and all things , and he has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings so that they should seek the Lord in the hope that they might grope for him and find him , though he is not far from each one of us , for in him we live and move and have our being , as also some of your own poets have said , for we are also his offspring .

Emeal Zwayne 46:31

Therefore , since we are the offspring of God , we ought not to think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone , something shaped by art and man's devising . Truly , these times of ignorance , god overlooked but now commands all men everywhere to repent , because he has appointed a day on which he will judge the world and righteousness by the man whom he has ordained . He has given assurance of this to all by raising him from the dead . And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead , some mocked while others said we will hear you again on this matter . Wow , what an excellent example of how to engage the lost . Paul could have blasted them , he could have railed on them , he could have , but he related and Ray , you always talk about how he even quoted pagan poets , yeah , and they were probably their idolaters .

Ray Comfort 47:18

They're probably adulterers and fornicators and blasphemers . Why did he do it ? It was to build a bridge to his hearers , that's all . And when we went to London , we did that with coronation and it worked .

Emeal Zwayne 47:28

Yeah , but he also showed no compromise , And I think that's where the modern day preachers fall short , Mark . Don't you think they'll get up and they'll speak , they'll relate , they'll springboard , but they'll never get to pointing out sin and hitting them with the gospel ?

Mark Spence 47:44

Nor will they connect with the people in a conversational way , and I think that is very important that when you speak , when you ask a question , give them a chance to answer the question and then give them a chance to bring a question themselves . You let people see that you're normal in a conversation and I think you'll have a better conversation .

Ray Comfort 48:03

But isn't it good when someone asks a question because it gives you a springboard to go in different directions ? bring out the truth to them .

Emeal Zwayne 48:09

Yeah , no , but Mark , i like that . That can't be overlooked or undervalued . Making that relational connection of showing them that you're a normal person , you're not some , because I've seen videos of open air preachers and it's maddening , you know like someone will try to talk to them And they'll just like what are they saying ? Remember that guy right ? Santa Monica Friday night .

Ray Comfort 48:36

Santa Monica . He's driving me crazy .

Emeal Zwayne 48:40

Anyway , i digress . But yeah , and look this . What I love is Paul is practicing what he preaches . in the word right , i mean Philippians . You know , in Second Timothy he talks about the importance of the Lord's bond servant . Second Timothy 2 , 24 to 26 . And the servant of the Lord was not quarrel but be gentle to all , able to teach , patient in humility , correcting those who are in opposition . That's what he did . He showed humility , he showed gentleness , he showed tact .

Emeal Zwayne 49:10

Colossians 4 , 5 through 6, . Make the most of your time with outsiders . Let your speech always be with grace , seasoned with salt , that you may know how to respond to each one . You know those things are so important And , friends , this applies . We're living in pagan days . Oscar pointed it out . Well , we are living in times that are wicked , just like in biblical days , and they had really heinous and extreme things going on . We need to be provoked and we need to be angry , but not sin and our anger . We need to remember we were once lost , we were once blind , we were once dead , and the Lord redeemed us and transformed us . Amen , amen , amen . All right , friends , don't forget the starter kit at livingwaterscom . Don't forget the mugs , don't forget the evidence Bible . Thank you for joining us . Hey , guess what ? We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast , where we have no idea . Dear , do you say idea , right ? No , what we're doing .