Discerning a Call to Ministry

Emeal Zwayne 1:05

All right , Mike , we have a bunch of questions for you . I want to talk a little bit about the books you've written . I want to talk more about your radio program , but we want to get into some questions about ministry . This is a big question for believers , especially as they're trying to find their way through , figuring out what's my place in the church . Obviously , your heart is to raise people up , train them up and to multiply discipleship , teaching others what we've received , as Paul talked to Timothy about . But , Mike , how does someone know if they're called to full-time vocational ministry ? Obviously , we're all called the minister to serve in the church . We all have a part in the body . But when it comes to full-time vocational ministry , how would you encourage someone to go about finding out if that's what they're called to do ? It's a great day . We're here with us on the Live and Watch . We love you all so much . Thank you for being here .

Oscar Navarro 1:53

No , you were doing .

Emeal Zwayne 1:55

How was that ? Yes , friends , as we told you on the previous podcast , we're doing a series of podcasts where we interviewed people at NRB . This one in particular went longer than we thought because it was so fascinating . It was with our dear brother , Mike Fabarez , and it went like 55 minutes , and most of our podcasts are like 45 , so that's why I'm being real quick here .

Ray Comfort 2:16

I read a lot . I'd love to have an introduction , because I've been listening to tapes double-speed lately and it's really really good , yeah , Listen to the videos you adjust after a while . Yeah , you do yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 2:26

but yeah , mark , mike Fabarez , you're familiar with them . We've heard them speak at our church in Kindred .

Mark Spence 2:31

Yeah , compasschurchorg , I believe his website is . We recommend his teaching . He's here in sunny Southern California .

Emeal Zwayne 2:39

Yeah , and he's planted a number of churches and , yeah , we talk about all that on the podcast . Real quick , here's a comment from friends . And who says dogs don't fly ? Jesus equals love . Quite enjoyable . I'm thankful for how the videos and the episodes help one to feel encouraged and reflective . Amen , thank you for that , friends . And who says dogs don't fly ? And don't forget to check out friends' Tough Questions DVD course , where we answer questions like who made God ? Why is there suffering and evil ? How can the loving God send someone to hell ? Isn't the Bible filled with contradictions and a whole lot of other things , the evidence study Bible and the Living Waters podcast Mogs at livingwaterscom without any further ado . Man , that was fast . Here is Mike Fabarez . So we're here at the NRB convention . Here it's a bit of a circus , as you can hear friends from all around .

Oscar Navarro 3:30

I mean all sorts . Literally , there's jugglers right behind me .

Emeal Zwayne 3:33

I think I had SpongeBob almost bump into me earlier . It's kind of like that . But one of the highlights for me is the fact that we get to sit down here with our brother Mike Fabarez . Pastor Mike Fabarez . Doctor , pastor Mike Fabarez . Any more titles in there ? Mike ?

Mike Favarez 3:46

Bishop , I'm aiming for the Pope . Yes , the Pontiff .

Emeal Zwayne 3:50

The Pontiff is here with us . The .

Mike Favarez 3:51

Pontiff Vicar . I prefer Vicar .

Emeal Zwayne 3:53

Yeah , I'm excited because Mike .

Mike Favarez 3:55

It's good to start my interview with blasphemy , isn't it ? Let's just start .

Emeal Zwayne 4:01

We've got to give him some expectations . A .

Mike Favarez 4:02

Protestant preacher .

Emeal Zwayne 4:04

We've got to get creative somehow . But , mike , one of the reasons why I'm so thrilled to sit down with you is not only am I excited about your ministry and what God is doing in and through it , not only am I blessed by the friendship that the Lord has been developing between us and partnership and ministry . We'll get to that , but it's been a delight for me because God has used you to directly minister to my beloved cousin . Nancy and her husband .

Emeal Zwayne 4:27

Matt , so great . Yeah , they were at our house maybe eight years ago . They had just moved to Liso Viejo , the area down there , and they're looking for a new church , and so I jumped on , looked up Compass because I was familiar with you as I'm at Kindred Community Church and you've been there and spoken and so found Compass and said man , it's seven miles from your house , and so they've been there ever since and it's been such a blessing to see how God's been using them there and building them up there at the church .

Mike Favarez 4:52

Well , it's great , it's been great to have them there in church discipline right now which is sad .

Oscar Navarro 4:57

Well , they're in easy family . That's not a surprise . Well , that's a little bit of a surprise we can get over that hump , we'll be fine . Yeah .

Mike Favarez 5:04

No , they're a blessing to our church . We love them so much .

Oscar Navarro 5:06

Mike , for a point of reference , you're the founder of Compass Bubble Church and when did you guys start and where you were at today ?

Mike Favarez 5:13

We started about 17 and a half years ago . Yeah , it was a rolling start and we had a good little core group and God has been gracious and it has grown and so , yeah , we're busy planting churches and we've kind of just gobbled up a business park . It's not a cathedral , it's a lot of tilt-up buildings .

Mike Favarez 5:35

It's not as pretty as Kindred Church but , it's , you know it works and we've got about 100,000 square feet of space . We've got a college now Compass Bible Institute , training people to maximize their giftedness for work and ministry . We've got a radio ministry . We're planting churches . We've just planted a brand new church in North Dallas . This summer .

Oscar Navarro 5:55

Ok , that was going to be my next question . I know you guys have some churches in Southern California , or else for our listeners , where else could they expect to find a Compass Bubble Church ?

Mike Favarez 6:02

Well , the first thing I should say they're not campuses , as a lot of churches just kind of put the pastor on a screen . I want to make sure , if I get hit by a bus , that all these church plants will have their own leadership , their own pastor . And so , yeah , we started in Huntington Beach . That was our first church plant and we've done some internationally Guatemala City , amon , jordan but domestically we started in Huntington Beach and that's thriving . Then in Tustin , california , not far from where we're at , between our churches .

Mike Favarez 6:29

And then we started out of state because we looked at the mass exodus of people leaving California and we said , well , where are they going ? And they're going to these places that the population is just exploding and even if the good churches in those areas that are preaching the Bible , even if they were to double time , it can't keep up with the growth . So we targeted those areas , went to the Treasure Valley of Idaho , in Boise , and we've got a church there that's thriving now , great pastor , great pastoral team , multiple services , and they're doing great

Bible Institute and Church Planting

Mike Favarez 6:57

. We went out to Texas and one of the fastest growing areas in Texas at the time was New Braun Foles , outside of San Antonio . So we planted there . We got them in a building , got them situated and they're thriving and growing and the most recent one this summer is in North North Dallas . It's way up in what they call North Texas McKinney Prosper , right there , frisco .

Mike Favarez 7:19

So , that's just . It's growing . They say it's going to grow by 3 million people in the next eight to two years .

Emeal Zwayne 7:25

That area is exploding . It's exploding . A good friend , emilio Ramos , is out in the area and it's been growing like crazy . You know , mike , we want to talk to you a little bit about church planning . But I had the opportunity to go and visit your church recently . You know I'm going to be speaking with that adult Bible fellowship my brother Kellan there such a dear brother . But I was blessed to see the Compass Bible Institute . I got a tour of it and I was radically impressed . I mean , you guys are serious about training people up . Tell us a little bit about that .

Mike Favarez 7:50

Well , you know , in the late 19th century there was an explosion of what were called Bible institutes and they saw themselves as serving a gap between whatever training you could get in church . And then , with the seminaries we're doing , Most of these Bible institutes developed into something else . You know , like the Bible Institute of Los Angeles became Biola and they became like normal universities and you'd go there and you could train for whatever you wanted to do in life . But the real niche where these started ?

Mike Favarez 8:19

I had a passion for this . I read a lot about it . I just love the concept of how do you take a guy who just wants to be maximally useful in the church and give him more training than just saying , hey , take notes on a sermon here or go to Sunday school and see what you can learn , but tests and books and papers , and how can you get them to really have a competency in doing whatever they're called to do in the church ? And so that's what we set out to do . It's kind of really in the spirit of the great Bible Institute movement of the 19th century and we said let's just recreate that and try and do that . So we've got about four different key target audiences and one I'm happy to talk about briefly is we just announced this last month .

Mike Favarez 9:01

What we're starting in the fall next year and this was part of my vision for this is to have a gap year program , one year where you can send your 18-year-old before he goes to his university to get his dental degree and learn Christian worldview , apologetics , bible survey , bible study methods , hermeneutics , and then we end the first semester with a trip educational trip to New England to study the history of America and the Great Awakening , and then they come back for another semester on campus and then we send them to Jerusalem to study for a month . And so we've got it all set up and we're going to launch it a year from now and we're going to see if we can get parents to do what I think and I know this is a big statement Do the right thing by not sending their kids off to college without grounding them first in a more formalized training where they're getting good education about what they believe and why they should believe it .

Oscar Navarro 9:56

Two questions real quick . That is all of that in one year . One year , that's an incredible year let me just say Well , we need it . Yeah , I 100% agree . Second question is the Bible Institute . Is that in Southern California , near you ?

Mike Favarez 10:07

Yes , we bought a building right across the street from our church and that's what you were just saying . You visited and that is a place where we've just said let's just see if we can invest in a place that will not only train our gifted leaders in the church to be more effective and other churches that want to send their leaders , but let's take our young people and get them prepared for adult life . And so that gap year program all takes place right across the street from our church .

Oscar Navarro 10:33

The reason why I ask that second question is because I think Bible Institutes have a very important role to play , developing a pastors of the future . One of the things that I've noticed in seminaries is that sometimes not all the time , but sometimes students will go off for an education but they'll do four years of no discipleship because they're disconnected from a church and they're just there going to school . How important is it to have these Bible institutes connected to a local church ? I guess the question is what happens when we stop discipling and only educate pastors ? How is that a problem ? 100% , it's a gigantic problem .

Mike Favarez 11:08

As a matter of fact , if you go back to the history of the Bible Institute movement , like when Ruben Archertori came out to LA from Chicago he was the president of Moody in Chicago . He comes out to LA , he said I won't take the leadership of this nascent institute , this Bible Institute of Los Angeles , unless it's connected to a church . And so they actually started the church in LA , church on the way , and that's how it became . He had to say this is a laboratory . You don't just learn in the classroom . This is really in . Some of the early working titles of these institutes were like a training , a workers' training institute . It was all about making sure that you learned something in the classroom and you immediately put it into practice within the context of a local church . So the reality of church being connected to school is essential .

Mike Favarez 11:53

I mean , how can I teach someone to do like one of our tracts is on being a certified biblical counselor ? Why are you going to do that if you're not involved in the church and dealing with people's lives ? Or we say , well , you want to learn to teach the Bible . I went to traditional seminaries . They had no idea whether I was a good preacher or not . And that little 10-minute thing you did in class and homo-letics , I mean no one knew if I was any good at it . Well , in a Bible Institute , a traditional old school Bible Institute , you're going to go into a real situation where you got 100 people sitting there and they're coming to church and here comes this guy who's in training and they find out whether he's gifted or not to do this .

Mike Favarez 12:30

And the great thing is , we're not in it like a university where we just want to make sure everyone's check clear and we fill our classrooms . We don't have a problem coming up to someone and saying hey , we don't think you're gifted for this .

Mike Favarez 12:42

We don't think you should be a pastor , so we don't think you . And it's not just about pastors , it's about counselors , it's about Sunday school leaders . Even we got small group leadership track how to lead a small group . I mean , you've all seen bad small group leaders , so we want to make sure you know how to do it and on top of gifting , real quick , on top of gifting .

Oscar Navarro 13:00

One of the other things being known and loved and discipled in local church is that it's not just about gifting , it's also about fruitfulness . Are they growing to be more like Christ as they grow , to learn to become disciples ? Because often there's a gap between someone's gift and someone's fruit and that can be a devastating effect on the church . 100% .

Emeal Zwayne 13:18

Yeah , mike , I love the gap year concept . One of my favorite words in the English language is the word provident Thinking ahead , planning before you reach a certain destination , and the thought of young people graduating high school . As much as we may have equipped them at home before that and hopefully we have as parents , even if we homeschooled them , even if they were a part of a Christian school oftentimes they're not going to be ready for the barrage of godless philosophies that they're going to be inundated with when they hit the university level . And so that's what I'm going to do idea of , hey , take a gap year , get rooted , get equipped and then go out , not just in a Sort of passive sense , but even in an offensive sense , to go out and to Proclaim the gospel and be light as well on these campuses . That when did you guys come up with that idea ?

Mike Favarez 14:04

Well , it's always been what I call a back page prayer request in my prayer book and it's been there for years . And I just finally got to the place where we planted enough churches , where we kept saying where are we going to find all the youth guys and the associate pastors ? And you know we need a training center to do that . Well , that just perfectly comported with my prayers over years . Right , and we had an opportunity and , and literally the building across the street was the key . It's awesome . I got a call from a guy who works in the building and he said and he goes to our church . He said pastor , mike , this building across the street , mutual , is not on the market yet , but I know it's going to be for sale . Do you want to talk to the owner ? And it was like this is an open door right here .

Mike Favarez 14:47

And and we needed the space . We were maxed out in our church space and this was perfect and you've been there , you've seen it , we've got library , we've got study halls , we've got classrooms .

Emeal Zwayne 14:56

Well , you know , this is another thing . It's kind of a side note , but it's . It's relevant . It grieves me when Christians don't do things with excellence . When I walked through that place , just from an aesthetic standpoint and and you know that could be frivolous and it could be vain , but it wasn't in connection with what you guys are doing this place is set up with excellence . I'm excited to hear about the fruit that's going to come from it .

Oscar Navarro 15:18

When you mentioned Christians being grieved by Christians that don't do things with excellence , I thought you're going to reference the shirt Eddie Roman decided to wear today .

Emeal Zwayne 15:25

I was going to reference you , but I Was trying to be humble .

Mike Favarez 15:30

Eddie didn't even have a collar . You got to pay this guy more .

Emeal Zwayne 15:34

That's true . Wow , oscar , look at that , he chimed in

Full-Time Ministry and the Value of Work

Emeal Zwayne 15:36

on us . All right , mike , we have a bunch of questions for you . You know , I want to talk a little bit about the books you've written , want to talk more about your radio program , but we want to get into some questions about ministry . This is a big question for believers , especially as they're trying to find their way through , figuring out what's my place in the church and obviously your heart is to raise people up , train them up and to multiply Right discipleship , teaching others , what , what we've received , as Paul talked to Timothy about . But , mike , how does someone know if they're called to full-time vocational ministry ? Obviously , we're all called the minister to serve in the church , we all have a part in the body . But when it comes to like full-time vocational ministry , how would you encourage someone to Go about finding out if that's what they're called to do ?

Mike Favarez 16:19

Yeah , well , you can watch American Idol and you can see a lot of people that want to be singers and their parents go yeah , you'd be great at this , and and and they're not . I mean , I don't know if they still do that . I haven't seen the show for years .

Mike Favarez 16:31

But still going but you know the idea of you saying , well , I think I want to be in ministry professionally . That really means very little to me . It's part of it , but it's like one small part of it and I know that comes from you know , first Timothy , chapter 2 , verse 1 If you desire the work , that's a noble thing you're desiring , but the reality is you've got to look at so many other things . Of course there's character requirements within Titus and Timothy and there has to be an engagement In something that shows that you have an endowment from God that makes this productive . Yeah , that's going to come from seeing a giftedness that works out , where people say , hey , you're trying to help the church , your help is helpful .

Mike Favarez 17:11

And I know a lot of people say , well , I want to help the church and I want to do it more and give me more time and more opportunities , and it might be well . Your help is really not helping us , right , you know playing the accordion , you know before communion . It's not helping us right now . You just got to realize that your help is helpful and that's going to come from Pastors that already are doing the work , congregants that are receiving the work that you're doing and a sense that you're affirmed that God has gifted me to do this and I'm qualified and I have a desire to do it . Like all those , five things have to come together , and I think you always need people that are coaching and affirming the way through it .

Oscar Navarro 17:46

Yeah , I'll real quick . Can we talk about this guy that's playing the accordion drink ? Yeah , I shouldn't .

Mike Favarez 17:51

I always picture that I did have a guy once say can I play the accordion in the worship group ? I'm like , well , you have to talk to a worship director , but I'm I'm thinking the answer is going to be no .

Oscar Navarro 18:01

We have a polka .

Emeal Zwayne 18:04

That's the polka church right well , I love the fact , mike , that you said earlier that you guys don't hesitate to tell people hey , you really shouldn't be doing this , and that's the major disservice that's going on in the world . Like you said , american Idol and nobody cared enough about that guy to tell me you shouldn't be doing this how much more important it , you know , is it in the church , obviously should be of maximal importance .

Mike Favarez 18:24

think about it . What's more important than someone Leading in in learning the bible ? I mean , that's what ministries Everyone's got to be apt to teach , yeah , if you can't do it , well , if you're not gifted by god to do it . So fruitfulness is important and discipleship means it's not you just sitting around by yourself figuring this out Are you even learning in a book or going to a class ? It's someone putting their arm around you and saying Let me help walk you through this process . I just think we've got to have that kind of one-on-one counseling through education , where people are mentoring you to decide where your place in ministry is .

Oscar Navarro 18:58

Yeah , yeah , I also think , real quickly here , that we need to have a better understanding , a theology of work . The problem is that , you know , in the 1500s the roman catholic church made the work of the priest's sacred and everything else Secular , and something that we forget , that was a part of the reformation , is that they sought to To remind us that all of the work that we do that is glorifying to god can be sacred , which , of course . There's this the famous story of a Shoemaker writing you know , martin luther a letter saying hey , how can I make shoes to the glory of god ? Or what can I do to the glory of god ?

Oscar Navarro 19:33

and his response was simply make Excellent shoes and so for some of these young men that feel the call to glorify god and all they do . Maybe it's not full-time vocational ministry , but that doesn't mean the work that you are called to do is not Sacred . Whether it's sacred work of picking up chairs and putting them the way after services , whether it's sacred work of going and being an electrician Monday through Friday and then serving your church on the weekends , that is also sacred work that god calls us all to do .

Mike Favarez 20:03

Let me comment on that , because if you think about the , the reformation , part of the legacy of that is even the word that is trickled down into our vocabulary about your job . They talk about a vocation , right , like a vocational counseling vocation , right , that word is calling , that's what it is in latin , a vaquette to call . And and god has called us to be a plumber , an architect or whatever , if that's where we find that we are maximally helpful to the good of society and we can glorify god in the work . Now , the things I can't do to glorify god , right , I can't be a pimp or , you know , a drug pusher , right . But there are so many things that we can .

Mike Favarez 20:42

And we've got to see that the , the clergy , like clayate divide of the pre-reformation world , was a disaster because people thought , well , I'm not living for god here , they're living for god in the monastery , and that's a big mistake . And so , yeah , we need to make let people know . That's why the institute is so helpful , because it's not just and you said it earlier by accident , it may be slipped out of your mouth that this is training pastors . Well , it does train pastors , but that's not what the institute is for . The institute is for not only people that are going to go on to be pastors , but most of the people are not . They're going to find their usefulness in apologetics , christian world view by . They are going to their office every day .

Oscar Navarro 21:19

That's good by cleaning .

Mike Favarez 21:20

You know the toilets as a janitor somewhere . That's fine . It's that we're training you can get you ready for that .

Emeal Zwayne 21:25

Amen . Yeah , you know , back in the day when I was at one of those original institutes viola , actually Uh , in my christian thought class , one of the most helpful things that I learned as a new believer was a whole concept of integration versus Compartmentalization . And that is , believers , we can integrate the lord into every aspect of life and that really is that the revolution that transforms lives .

Mike Favarez 21:48

When we grasp that as believers , so right and and look at eddie roman over here , without his collar on , we couldn't do this without him , yeah , or someone like him , yeah , gifted to do . Or the guys who made this microphone , or the people that bottled this water , or the people that made that , that iPad . But we , we need christians that see everything as we're doing this , to utilize the mandate of exercising dominion over this created world to try and channel this for the good and glory of god . If people can think that way . Now , plenty of people are making water bottles and iPads without ever thinking about that . But , christians , that are right . You start doing turning those dials , eddie , for the glory of god , it , it , elevates everything . Yeah right .

Mike Favarez 22:27

It becomes a , an active worship , which is what luther and calvin everyone else was trying to get people to see exactly .

Emeal Zwayne 22:33

Yeah , whether you eat or drink or whatever you do to all to the glory of god , absolutely Did you just come up with that . Yeah , just on the spot , it sounds like bible to me . So , all right , mike , let me ask you this . So you've got , you've got a young person who's beginning to get involved in leadership in the church . They don't have the opportunity to become a part of compass bible institute . They live somewhere else . How do you advise them to grow in order to become more effective in leadership ?

Mike Favarez 22:59

Yeah , I would say this you need to be fully present and fully engaged in all three areas of what you should be doing in church . And just in terms of how you're there , you're supposed to attend Right at worship services , bible studies your chairs are next to each other . You're looking at someone who's feeding you and worship leaders and you are , you're taking it . Be fully engaged in that , yeah . And then you're supposed to be engaged in chairs face to face , right , we are supposed to have interaction . You can't . You've got to be known , right .

Mike Favarez 23:26

And and think of the distinction between how many people come to a church service and then how many people don't involve themselves in something where their chairs are face to face , in small groups . And if you think about that , that disparity is like people aren't even moving from being a perceiver of what's happening to someone engaging and edifying and sharpening iron and all those things . And then there's one more aspect of church you got to get up out of your chair and do ministry . Now , if all I'm focused on is , I want to find the place where I can get out of my chair and help the church , but you're not fully engaged in your small group body , life of the church or in receiving what's going on in the Exposition of the word and the worship of the of the assembled congregation .

Mike Favarez 24:04

I think you're you're going to be messed up . Some people just think I'm just here to lead , I'm just here to be a leader and I'm saying be a full-blown engaged congregant , be a full-blown engaged small group participant and be a zealous worker for the lord . If you can be fully there for all three Parts of that , I think you're gonna . You're gonna thrive , you're gonna do well .

Oscar Navarro 24:24

Let me also just say you , you didn't just describe a future pastor or leader in the church . You described what a church member period Should be , and I know you know , because we live in southern california . I know this is a global issue , but especially in Southern California there's so many churches in which people want to go to consume right , they want the sermon to serve them , they want the worship music to be entertaining and they want to go and have no responsibility , get their cup of coffee , be entertained for 45 minutes to an hour and then leave . And what you just described is what's called church membership being a family , being known and knowing others .

Mike Favarez 25:02

And let me add one aspect I didn't mention , and pastors don't like to mention it , but do we fully engage when our chairs are side by side ? There's something in that service that involves as giving our offerings to the Lord right , and those people those are usually the people if you were to look up they're giving it . They're not even sacrificially involved in giving to the church . Right Giving is one of the corporate congregation things that we do and and it's funny how , the more we're fully participating in congregational life , small group life , then when we stand up to do ministry , it's just an outgrowth of that .

Mike Favarez 25:35

And some guys who stand up to ministry are like you need to be doing more of that . You need to get more hours to that . We need to train you to do this full time . Well , even if you're doing it full time , you're in a small group , you're in congregation life , you're experiencing preaching and giving and singing . It's just it . That's what life's all about . And if you happen to say they're identifying giftedness to where , when I get out of my chair to do ministry , it's good and they want more of it , great . You just . I guess they start paying you to do it , but it's just Christian life .

Oscar Navarro 26:04

Yeah , and let me just say because I think sometimes really quickly here , when we talk about this idea of what it means to be a church member , it can sound something like you're not doing enough . But also , yes , but also let me poison a little bit differently we're inviting you into something you were designed to participate in . You were saved out of anonymity into community to experience the glory of God , the love of God and the love of other people . This is the thing that our souls desire . So many of us live lonely , unfulfilled lives , and God has called us into the local church community to experience his glory and the goodness of our church .

Mike Favarez 26:45

I thought we were created to sit on a couch and thumb through reels on Instagram .

Emeal Zwayne 26:50

No , that too , it's both , and oh is it .

Mike Favarez 26:53

But think about our culture , so absorbed in these like solitary things Just to get people to think I'm supposed to be a part of a community and people are supposed to know me . If I ask the average man in particular , who really knows you ? No , really , who knows you ? Who are your friends ? Most guys don't even have an answer to that . My cat , it's time for us to get you , like you just said , get more of us to see this is the purpose of our lives , right ? Not just our church responsibilities . This is why we were created , you're right .

Emeal Zwayne 27:26

Good

Pitfalls and Challenges of Church Leadership

Emeal Zwayne 27:26

luck . Well , you know , I think , that what churches often desire they're not willing to invest in producing . They want to circumnavigate the process that it takes to get to a place where there's that real kind of health and vibrancy and effectiveness in the church . Well , that takes a lot of investment in terms of time and effort and unpopular elements that aren't a part of the consumer church that we have today , and so it delights me to see that you guys are doing that at Compass . So let me ask you this , Pastor Mike what would you say are the biggest pitfalls for leaders in the church ?

Mike Favarez 28:06

Well , I guess we've touched on one . I should at least say there's a lot of guys that are involved in church vocationally . That shouldn't be . Some people have said about church planning and I do a lot of church planning they say it's easy to start a church , it's hard to kill one . Right , it's easy to have a birthing party , but hard to have a funeral for a church . Some guys need to say this isn't what I should be doing . I do think that's a starter . But then the other thing is we find a culture where people think I think about this , I'm working for the weekend or I'm living for my retirement .

Mike Favarez 28:39

If you don't have a good work ethic coming into church leadership you're always looking for your Starbucks run or your walk with your dog in the afternoon you're not going to be a good church leader . Paul talked about the spending and being expended for the souls of people . You got to love people . You got to care about people . It's not about you on a stage and you being a great preacher . It's ultimately about you helping people know Christ , conform to Christ , and that's just going to suck a lot of life out of you . You've got to be willing . In my pastoral ministries class I teach you've got to be willing to give up normal life . You cannot just expect to . Whatever you envisioned your life when you were 12 , you thought here's what adult life is like . You've got to give that up because we're going to serve , we're going to enter our rest when we get past this life . Right now we're going to work and I think a good solid it came up at some point a good solid Protestant work ethic that says we need to give I rest to work . I don't work to rest . I'm engaging in sleep so I can wake up and do what I'm supposed to do . The next day , I don't work so that I can get to bed .

Mike Favarez 29:37

The reality of our problem in leadership is so often we've got lazy leaders and ministry life . Here's the liability . You don't have someone looking over your shoulder and saying here's what you should be doing at two o'clock in the afternoon on Thursday . Here's what you've got to be doing at 10 o'clock on Tuesday morning . You have to be self-governed , self-disciplined and a self-starter Particularly a lot of guys that might be listening to this podcast . They're in a small church , right ? They don't even have the accountability of a staff around them in the office . It's like we've got to be workers , you've got to be disciplined , you can't be distracted , and we're so easily distracted . How long is the attention span of people today ? What was that Right ? They haven't even gotten this far in the podcast . So the bottom line is we need to change the way we look at what ministry is Ministry's work .

Mike Favarez 30:22

When I started working as a kid , my dad , when I said , dad , I want to go get a job and I was young he said well , just remember this , son , once you start working , you're never going to stop . And he said number two work is work . And as long as you know that , work is work . And I thought that was a good bit of advice from my blue collar father If you're not ready to work , certainly don't step into ministry , because there's a pitfall there of thinking that you can make your own schedule . Most people think that I'm golfing from Sunday to Sunday anyway and it's a lot of work to do the work of ministry . I think guys need to step up and know that they're called to do it and that they're ready to put in the hours .

Emeal Zwayne 30:57

Yeah , you know , and a lot of times you get these young guys that basically have the perspective of you know what . I'm just not good at anything else . I might as well go into ministries , I hope not . What a tragedy .

Emeal Zwayne 31:07

but you see that I've seen that in young people where it's like oh man , I think I'm called to serve the Lord . Well , how are you doing at work ? How many jobs have you been fired from ? How's your attendance record been ? Yeah , there's this sort of lax attitude when it comes to ministry . I mean , you look at what Paul endured for the sake of the gospel , you know , being shipwrecked and beaten with rods and stoned . And so there is that perspective of oh cool , I get to be a pastor , do my own schedule , like you said , get my latte , go for my afternoon walk . But ministry is sacrificial service . It's foot washing , it's cleaning up messes , it's dealing with the messy issues of people's lives , and if you're not spiritually fit , you're in big trouble . And so that leads to my next question .

Oscar Navarro 31:49

Actually , I want you to answer the question because , Ezy , you've been involved with church planning , you've been involved with discipling . You care deeply about the young men at your church . What are the pitfalls you seek ? I think that's a really valuable question .

Emeal Zwayne 31:59

I'd love to hear you answer it Well , I think one of the biggest pitfalls is pride and it can almost sound cliche , right , I mean , that's the typical go-to answer , but pride in its deceptive forms that leads to destruction , the pride that is unwilling to receive correction from those that you're leading as an example . I think the greatest leaders are those who have the non-negotiable attitude when it comes to who it is that can speak correction into my life , and the leaders that have blessed me most are those that I've seen demonstrate that humility toward their congregants , toward their wives , toward their children , when they come and approach them with something that isn't necessarily pleasant about themselves , that they don't want to look at or think about . So I think pride is one of the biggest destructive factors . And then I think another element too could be believing the lies of others and the lies of the enemy , because obviously we all know that discouragement is one of the biggest destructive elements in ministry , when you're not focused on what Scripture says and I think which leads to the question I was going to ask Mike I think perhaps one of the most overlooked pitfalls is a leader that does not have a vibrant , thriving devotional and prayer life .

Emeal Zwayne 33:24

I think , honestly , that's what I want to know . I've always said that prayer is the barometer that really shows where we're at spiritually , because it's the most difficult discipline , I believe , and it's the one that demonstrates the greatest degree of faith , because we're sitting alone with our thoughts racing with a thousand things we have to do , speaking into the air to a God that we can't see and whose voice we can't hear and whose presence we can't feel . I think that's huge , mike . How do you encourage leaders to maintain that vibrant spiritual dynamic in their lives of prayer and

Prayer and Accountability for Christian Leaders

Emeal Zwayne 33:57

devotion ?

Mike Favarez 33:57

Yeah , and that's the difficulty , I think , of everything in the Christian life . It's going against the traffic of my flesh . Even standing up and saying sin is sin and this is righteous , that's going to be hard in terms of my popularity . But then I think about sitting down and reading books . In a world of people that want to thumb through social media , that's hard for people to do . It's like just to have a linear time of reading a book for an hour . Who does that anymore ? And now I'm going to say no longer . Do you stop reading the book ? Now I've got to , like you said , I've got an unscripted time of talking to God and pouring out my heart . Before it's increasingly difficult . That's why the pinnacle of difficulty is not even just your Bible reading . It is your prayer life .

Mike Favarez 34:37

So all I can say is you've got to do the hard stuff , and the hard stuff is making time for this . It's not like you throw in your prayer time or your study time in the Bible Before you ever get to Christian books . You throw it in with the gaps in your schedule . You've got to schedule it . It's got to be patterned . It's like going to the gym . Your body doesn't want to do it , but you're going to have to learn to do it and discipline yourself to do it . And I like to say you need to have a place , you need to have a time . You need to have that place secured to where you're not getting interrupted . You've got to turn your phone off and you've got to spend time focused on what you're there to do . And for my life and I tell people this , it's not in the Bible , although I think there's hints of it in the Bible you better have some things that you're regularly praying through . I say you've got to have a prayer list because I think it helps keep us on track .

Mike Favarez 35:23

It's like reading a book . It keeps me on track because there's words there to follow . And in my prayer life at least , I want to go subject by subject through things . The top thing on my prayer list every morning , which I kind of hate in my flesh , is like I have first John 1 , 9 there sin If I confess it , god forgives , mike Fobar is what have you done ?

Oscar Navarro 35:42

What is your sin ?

Mike Favarez 35:43

today , and I know sometimes I want to get into praying for this project or that thing or this sermon . But to start even with stuff like that and it's a topic I have to cover it . Okay , now I have to think . I've got to be introspective . I've got to pray Psalm 139 , search me , try me , know my heart , see if there's any evil in me . Those are the things that a prayer list will do for you .

Mike Favarez 36:03

It keeps you moving from thought to thought with God and saying , okay , god , here's what you want . You want me to agree with you about my sin . Now you want me to pray about the people in my life and in my staff and in my team you just got . You need lists , I think .

Oscar Navarro 36:18

That's great . I love that because , as pastors , you've got to wear a lot of hats . You've got to be an entrepreneur in a way in regards to you got to know the finances and plan for the future . You've got to be a leader of leaders , raising up other guys . You've got to be the guy that takes all the phone call and counsel people through depression and death and everything that goes on out there All of this bombardment , plus being able to understand what's going on in the culture and the pressures of the world . As a pastor , if we are not pointing our hearts back to Christ , we will lose a sense of our calling and the reason why we do what we do . And so , ultimately , what you're talking about is a prayer life , a time in God's Word that points our own hearts back to the gospel , because it does not matter how good of an entrepreneur you are , it does not matter how good of a counselor you are . If your heart isn't pointing to Christ , you're headed towards failure .

Mike Favarez 37:10

And let me add a phrase to that that makes it even harder to differentiate , and that is you can be a great teacher of biblical truths , right ? And I think if you're keen to discerning it , you can tell . Sometimes this guy knows Bible . He's throwing Bible out , right , but I wonder where he's at with God , because I don't even sense that this is for a person , right .

Mike Favarez 37:31

Yeah , and so it is . You can do a lot of Christian work and in Richard Baxter you seem like you're familiar with some of these Puritans just in talking in that book called the Reform Pastor , which is not about theology but about having a heart . That's reform . He has a section in there just even about are you sure you're even a Christian ? Yeah , and it's like that's just so good .

Emeal Zwayne 37:50

Well , you know , Mike , you and I are connected to someone very dear to both of us , Todd Freel . Yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 37:55

And your son , John , was a part of Road Trip to Truth , and now you are , which we're so excited about . Todd Freel is one of those guys who was studying to become a pastor . He was in seminary and realized one day he wasn't saved , Right , yeah . And so that's so essential and so key to do that self-examination . I've known others as well . There's another guy that I was mentoring and he came to me and said hey , I'm going to start a church , and you know , I'm so excited that the foundations for the church that are our main core values are going to be friendship , fellowship , fitness , finance and failure .

Emeal Zwayne 38:29

Exactly , I'm like Houston . We got a problem and , by God's grace and I started giving this guy some good stuff . He started listening , reading , and then he realized he wasn't saved and now is has a sound church . And so another element that I think is a massive , massive danger is pastors that don't have accountability . And so how would you advise the Christian leader who wants to be effective to have healthy accountability ? What does that look like ?

Mike Favarez 38:54

Yeah , and you talk about Pastor Kellen . He's going to do a whole thing this summer on that . Men finding accountability , yeah , and you know , you just have to be honest . I like to put it this way . You got to learn to think on yourself , like you know . You've got to have guys in your life that you are , that you trust , because there is a sense of trust in this right . If you told your accountability partner stuff that he got on a stage and and yacked it , you know there's bells that are hard to unring , even if they're not disqualifying . So you have to have guys that you feel like you trust and I find that even the guys that you work with , who know what pastoral ministry is , become a great cadre of guys that you feel like you can walk through life with . You know , they know where you are , they know what you're doing . You have that sense of of even living life so closely together that you you have a sense of openness and transparency with it .

Oscar Navarro 39:40

I think that's key , I think , just to add to that also , you need guys around you that aren't impressed with you , and what I mean by that is that it could be so easy , where you gather together , yes , men that think you're the , think you're the best pastor , the best teacher , think that you're whatever the case , and they become afraid to call you out , to challenge you , to co-disciple alongside of you , and so to have guys around you that aren't impressed by who you are , but rather know you and love you , and love what God is doing in your heart is really important .

Mike Favarez 40:07

Two things will help that One is having guys that are with you for a long time . Yeah , and you watch some leaders . They rotate there . You're number two , number three , four guys . They just keep moving every two years . So I think having long-term associates is helpful because then that kind of helps get the veneer of your amazing . And then , secondly , that you're really bringing your team into decisions Right . I mean , we meet every single week as leaders and we're making decisions together . Often I'm the last one to weigh in on a topic because I want to hear what everybody says and I know there's got to be a Timothy and Ephesus that's leading other elders , but I just think you've got to show them that you really want their input and decisions are made together with a plurality of pastoral elders .

Mike Favarez 40:49

And . I think , that's key , and when you do that it then it keeps this distance , this kind of back to the Laity clergy . Now it's the associate senior distinction , and we can't have that . We need to make decisions together and we need guys that we've been in the trenches with for years and years .

Emeal Zwayne 41:02

Yeah , and I think a huge important element on the part of the leader is intentionality and cultivating approachability . And it's one thing to give lip service to that hey , call me on anything that you see in my life and point it out but to act approachable when you are approached is going to perpetuate the potential for your fellow leaders to speak into your life . But if you bristle the second , they bring something up . If you're defensive , if you're a rights defender rather than a truth seeker , as it's been said , it's not going to happen . You're going to intimidate your leaders and you're going to do yourself a disservice in the church , a disservice in the future . And before .

Mike Favarez 41:40

A lot of people listen to this podcast and go , yeah , my passion needs to be more of that . Every guy who says that we need to ask even as you put earlier , easy within your family , that's good , right , yeah . Do people approach you and think you don't bristle when you say , dad , you shouldn't have done that , or honey , did you do we really need to spend that money on that TV ? I mean , most people bristle by just the nature of thinking . I made a decision , I own it and now you're telling me it wasn't right . That's hard to do , so you've got to give some grace to your pastor that he may take a deep breath when you say , pastor , why did we do that ? Why did you have that guy in the pulpit ? Why did we do whatever we did here ? And I think we all should have a bottom line commitment to that . And yet it's not as easy as someone's going to say when they're looking at someone else's life like my pastor needs to be more approachable . I want us to be approachable and in my heart , that's my commitment .

Oscar Navarro 42:31

That is a tough thing . That's good . Mike , sounds like you have a confession to make . How big is your TV and why was your wife upset about it ?

Mike Favarez 42:37

You know what ? I'm glad you said that . I looked up my TV the other day , said , honey , we've had this TV for so many years . I bought it as a demo at Best Buy . I think , honey , at some point I think we should buy a new TV . So I'm glad you brought that up because currently I have an old TV that I bought off of the wall of Best Buy and Mission Viejo , so you know what I'm doing .

Emeal Zwayne 42:57

all right in that department Sounds like Oscar's been spying in

Balancing Ministry and Family Responsibilities

Emeal Zwayne 43:00

on your life . Oscar's trying to go for it . All right , I have another question . We're going to start drawing no clothes here , but we talked about busyness . Oscar mentioned all the things you have on your plate as a pastor . You talked about the importance of not being lazy as a pastor and and grinding and working hard . But how do you advise leaders on striking that balance , especially when it comes to family , especially those that have younger children , those that have maybe wives that are struggling in being a pastor's wife ? I mean , we oftentimes overlook that when I first got married , I was an associate pastor and my wife , you know , suddenly became a associate pastor's wife and that wasn't her world . And so how do leaders strike that balance ? Yes , busy , hard work , doing all of that , but at the same time , not neglecting your primary ministry .

Mike Favarez 43:45

Yeah and this is first grinty in seven right , if you didn't have a spouse , you could be more effective in ministry . That's paul's argument and he even advocates for it . If you can do it , do it . So once you become a husband , you know you've immediately sacrificed some level of fruitfulness in your ministry , and I've heard a lot of people put flowery language on . More effective , frankly , biblically , you're not . I mean , I would sleep on my couch at the office and get more done right , more books . So we we have to realize we're sacrificing part of our fruitfulness for this , for sanity , because most of us that are gifted to be married .

Mike Favarez 44:17

We would be insane if we weren't married so we need to be married , those of us that are called to that . But balance I want to make sure that we don't use that word is an excuse to say I'm gonna be at every soccer game . I'm gonna , you know , picnic with my wife every saturday . It's like my wife knows , and if you have a wife that's gifted in ministry , that she loves the church , she's ready to sacrifice for the church . When we get a call at eleven o'clock and somebody's got a gun to their head and needs the pastor to talk him off a ledge , you know she's gonna go . Okay , you gotta go , and and so you need a wife that's willing to sacrifice like you're willing to sacrifice for the church and your kids . And here's the bread and butter I think of of real pastoral ministry is that your pk's , your pastor's kids , aren't resentful of the church .

Mike Favarez 44:58

Can you train your kids to say I'm not at every little league game , uh , and dad misses a lot of stuff , but you still see your kids fall in love with the church because you've somehow in your household shown that this is important , really more important than your little league game , even though I'm all for it and I'll be at the games I can be at . Balance can't be a norman rockwell experience of I have a perfect balance between my marriage and my parenting and my church and counseling and books and conference . You can't uh , but I do think if you've lost your kids in the process , uh , something's wrong . And so the real goal is I want my kids to grow up and learn that what I love the church is what your mom loves the church , and I want you to love the church and and by god's grace , at least in my life for the present , you know , my two sons are pastors and my daughter wants to find a pastor to marry and she loves ministry and I feel like that warms my heart as an answer to my prayers has been my prayer .

Mike Favarez 45:54

Our kids get , get dragged along to a lot of stuff through the years and missed a lot of stuff and dad says I gotta make a stop at the hospital before we go home . And they're sitting there you watching some guy with a bandage on his head going I'd rather be at home you watching tv . They learn to love the church if you go at it with a right and this is why I say the table talk at dinner cannot be how much you hate your job , you you gotta love your job and love the people that you're , that you're called to love . Like the average guy coming home from the office , going like anna , the way he unloads on all the negatives of his job , pastoral ministry you can't do that and you shouldn't .

Mike Favarez 46:28

It's the bride of christ . I don't complain about the bride of christ . Does it have warts and wringles ? It's got plenty . My job is to do what I can to iron them out and and so I want my family to love the church and I think that's the goal . But it won't be traditional balance in terms of everything's idyllic and you make every little thing because you won't but I but I love that .

Emeal Zwayne 46:46

You know intentionality and training , like you talked about how you conveyed your children . This is what we're doing , this is what it's all about , and I'm glad you said that , because I've seen the pendulum swing to the other end of things . You know it's like , hey , we , we got to make sure the kids always feel that we're there and we're at everything , but you're not teaching them really the realities of what the christian life looks like , not just in ministry but in life in general . Right , you have those divine interruptions all the time and if you have this attitude of , well , these are the important things , this is the agenda , you're gonna be ineffective in huge ways .

Oscar Navarro 47:18

Well , there's also real quickly the opportunity to invite your kids along to serving alongside you rather than leaving them behind , and so as I go and care for this person in need , I get to invite my kids into praying for those people .

Oscar Navarro 47:31

As those prayers get answered , answered , I come home and let them know how god is listening to their prayers , and so your kids . As a pastor , we have an opportunity . Help them see the role that they have in what god is doing in the local church , rather than but then treating them like a speed bump to the job that I want to go into right now .

Emeal Zwayne 47:50

Good point yeah , and , and you can also again go to the other extreme and saying yes to everything when you really should be saying no to certain things . So your kids also need to see that yeah , you were invited to go speak at this event that you'd love to go speak at , and maybe it's a great opportunity for whatever . You're looking at priorities , your you're also you're evaluating . It's not just this sort of standard approach , but you're you're stepping back , thinking outside of the box and evaluating where have things been at in this season of our lives as a family , where my kids at right now , what , what's my wife going through ? And that helps us , I think , filter out what we need to say no , do when we need to say no to . So excellent , like . As we wrap up real quick , I want you to touch on a few of the things that you're doing . You know , one of the things that I love and I think this was your doctoral dissertation , if I remember partners is that what it's ?

Mike Favarez 48:36

called partners . Partners is our one-on-one discipleship program . I wrote it as a project for my master's degree your master's , yeah okay , got it .

Emeal Zwayne 48:43

So I mean this thing thrills me because my cousin , nancy , as I said earlier , is a part of your church has taken so many women through this I mean I'll talk to you and I'm taking this other lady through partners . Tell us about

Envy and Focal Point Preaching Book

Emeal Zwayne 48:54

that real quick . And then I know you wrote a new book . It's it's not out yet , but it will be called envy . Yeah , like you to talk about that focal point .

Mike Favarez 49:00

Whatever else you guys have going on yeah , and partners is great because it's not the material . That's great . That's not a very , you know you get to the greatest book ever written by me uh , no , it's .

Mike Favarez 49:11

It's . It's just basic stuff about the christian life , likea do I make sure my christian do I know the gospel ? How do I study the bible , how do I pray , how do I share my faith just basics . But the magic of it , if I can enlist that word , is that you're you're forced to one-on-one sit across the table from someone and talk these issues through . A lot of questions in it that we go over their deeper studies in the margins . It's just forcing people to sit down and talk about the spiritual aspects of our christian life and to me I could do that on a three by five card , because the real value in it is getting face to face with people and talk about the spiritual lives now . So it's just a guided method of how to do that and it's available out of churches in around the country are starting to pick it up in terms of their their discipleship programs . I think it's helpful writing a book on envy . I just finished it . It's at the publisher now and it's getting tight set . I'm excited about this .

Oscar Navarro 50:02

Let me ask you a quick on that , because envy is one of those hidden sins , right like everybody knows that it's a sin but nobody realizes that they're probably struggling with it . Everybody knows when they lie , everyone knows when they steal , everybody knows when they look with lust , but often people don't realize how envious their hearts are . So how important is it ? What is envy ? How important is it for us to be able to see that we struggle with that ? And how does the book help ?

Mike Favarez 50:25

and you've said it so well , because I've had a lot of people confess stealing and lost and and lying . I've had no one come in and say , pastor , you pray for me . Uh , I'm confessing my sin of envy . I mean , maybe it's been done , but I've been in ministry for decades . I've never had anybody say that was jerry bridges right , respectable sins respectable sins , sins we tolerate .

Mike Favarez 50:44

I want to the series on that sins we tolerate , uh . So here's the thing envy in the early church . Uh , if you look at the first five centuries of the church , a lot of sermons about envy , because they saw it and they begin to categorize it as one of the deadly sins . They call it a capital sin , and that is a sin that the other sins all find their root in . So envy was one of those sins and they said envy is the cause of a hundred lesser sins . So we got to deal with the root and so I started looking around where the books today written on envy and and the way this book started was because I sat through a series of meetings through the week , and especially in the middle of my week is when I deal with staff members in in ministry problems , and I started really identifying in one afternoon how many of the meetings I was having really based on someone in being someone else . And I , I , I , I took a little , you know , sticky note . I said this is a good book idea .

Mike Favarez 51:35

I happen to be at a conference and I had a publisher that I'd worked with before say , hey , you think I write any books . I go , no , you know , because I don't really enjoy the writing process . I was like no , and he said you got no books on your heart and no , and then I felt bad because I realized just a week ago I'd written on this note we need a book on envy . So I I came back to him , said well , I guess there was one I was thinking of and I told him and then the things started . The message started . He got on his phone , he started looking this publisher about books on it , said we don't have . He said you got to write this book . And so then that set me on sitting down and laying out an outline for the book and writing it .

Mike Favarez 52:08

The book is all about the secret areas of your life where you envy and it goes back to the tenth commandment which is really the fuel for envy , because envy is not covetousness , but the tenth commandment not to covet your neighbor's wife . Your neighbor's house is property , is workers . All of that is the seed of it . When I'm really , as as dr moler says , hankering for something I don't have , it's that now it starts to fuel my resentment for you . When you have it now I don't like you because you have what I don't have . So you know , kane kills able .

Mike Favarez 52:43

And really , when you think about that , this sin of envy was because here his brother had what he wanted and he didn't get . And of course you know the story . God says , hey , sins , crouching at the door , just got a master . He what he didn't master , it right , envy mastered him . And then the . And another thing that got me thinking about this when you look at christ , uh , standing before pilot , pilot says I know that they delivered you over out of envy . I thought to jesus was crucified for this sin .

Mike Favarez 53:11

Where are the books about the sin problem that people have ? So I sat down and wrote one and I will say there's another one out there , but it was mostly written toward women and body image on , which is fine , but I thought there's not a a more muscular book about any man could read it and go . I see envy in my life . So I wrote this book on envy . Half of it is about the problem , half of it is about the solution and that's coming out by moody publishing here in a couple months . But , uh , I hope that it might be helpful to some people ask a really really needs that , actually I was just about to say you're inviting me to confess something and I confess it to my pastor .

Oscar Navarro 53:42

Uh , this last sunday , because we were . We were going to the book of genesis and in preparation for this last sunday , I was to read the chapter over and over again that we're in and I'm looking at the verses that we're going to be going through in the back . My mind I'm like and these verses are right , I wish I got this sermon . This should be my sermon , like I would have so much fun with serenity . And by the time I pass this preaching , there is a minute , a moment of repentance , whereby the end of the sermon . I'm like this is his sermon , I'm so glad he's the one preaching the sermon , you know . But that that can be rooted in envy and I'm . Ultimately it's a lack of understanding of stewardship that god has entrusted you with your portion and he's entrusted others with their portion .

Emeal Zwayne 54:19

Yeah , I think oftentimes Envy can be the firstborn child of discontentment , exactly , and that's . That's the other thing that we need . We need a book on big time . Well , there are . There have been some great ones from , from writers of old . But yeah , mike , you know , there was a lady at our church who just got baptized this past Sunday . She was in her 70s and I was so deeply moved because what ended up bringing her to faith and repentance was her sudden Realization of her big problem of envy . And she specifically highlighted that you , you rarely hear that I rarely hear it but , it was so refreshing she suddenly realized I'm an envious person .

Emeal Zwayne 54:52

How do I , how do I get this cured ? All right , I need Christ , right . So that's great , so that's exciting . Tell us about focal point real quick and what you got going on with that and everything else at the church where people can find compass , website , all that stuff .

Mike Favarez 55:05

Yeah , focal point is our preaching that we put out on . About eight or nine hundred stations across the country run XM , serious satellite network and it just takes the verse by verse exposition and Broadcast it . And it's been a great thing to hear people talk about how it's changed their lives . You know , I had a guy call in say he was about to kill himself . He went and parked his truck in a remote area to get in his glove box , pulled his revolver out , turned on the radar to find a last song to go out on and he hears me preaching Wow , and , and you know so , here's a physical life saved . And then he becomes a Christian and Writes us about his new life in Christ and I think , okay , that's something that never would have happened . We're not humanly speaking for a guy coming to me years ago and saying 25 years ago hey , do you mind if we take what you've said and and get it on this local radio station ? And I'm like , okay , I guess , if it doesn't hurt the church . And so that's what focal points all about .

Mike Favarez 56:02

It's being broadcast in a lot of places and you can go to focal point ministriesorg , or I like to go to fprorg , or if you listen to this . You can't remember that member who is talking , pastor Mike . Go to pastor Mike , calm . Yeah , that'll take you to our radio ministry and kind of show you there's lots of free resources there and our church is is Compass church org and we're in South Orange County , the heart of South Orange County , in Elisa Viejo , and then if you want to hear about the Institute , compass Bible Institute org , you can find all of the , the programs that we have , certifications we have and things you can do with our training center .

Emeal Zwayne 56:36

That's great . Well , mike , thanks for coming on . This has been a real delight , I mean honestly , for Oscar and I , this has been fellowship . Right , we plan to sit down and do a podcast , but it's been fellowship . I'm edified , encouraged , good . So I'm excited to go to the adult Bible fellowship and speak .

Mike Favarez 56:48

Yes , you're coming , helen .

Emeal Zwayne 56:49

I'm really excited about that and friends , if you live anywhere near the area and you're looking for a solid church that teaches Expositionally , that is focused on the call to evangelize and to Proclaim Christ and to live out the Christian faith , compass Bible Church as a church for you , so make sure to check it out . Thanks for coming on with us , mike . Oh my pleasure .

Mike Favarez 57:08

Thanks guys .

Emeal Zwayne 57:08

All right , bless you and now you know Mike Fabbars . Oscar , that was one of the really refreshing ones for us . All of them were no yeah . Yeah , we talked about that afterwards and just discussed that how , how refreshing it was . I mean hearing the heart of a pastor .

Oscar Navarro 57:25

Yeah , towards other pastors , yeah , and the importance on the value of pastoral ministry and the importance of Guarding your heart as pastors and leaders , and what we can do to continue to be refined and grow .

Emeal Zwayne 57:37

Yeah , ray , you did your pastor . Three and a half years , that number , to be like Sean .

Ray Comfort 57:41

Yeah , three and a half years . Loved it , love loved it being over .

Emeal Zwayne 57:46

It's interesting right when you fit into where the Lord has you and yeah , well , I love what John Wesley said .

Ray Comfort 57:50

If he preached to the same people every week , he'd drive them and himself crazy . And that's exactly how I felt . Yeah . And you say the same you say the same joke twice from a pulpit in your senile . As far as the congregation is yeah , I said that right .

Emeal Zwayne 58:02

Yeah , yeah pastors who are in that role love it . You know it's calling mark . You and I Passard for a number of years together . What a joy now to take what God did in us in that season and use it here in leadership at Living Waters . I mean , we still get to do that . We get to preach and speak , still in different places .

Mark Spence 58:16

Yeah , you know , and I do stand amazed when I listen my pastor prepare a new sermon week after week after week . That Continually grips me . Yeah , and my family .

Emeal Zwayne 58:26

Yeah , at home runs . Yeah , if you friends

Church Fellowship and Podcast Promotion

Emeal Zwayne 58:28

. If you're in the area you're looking for a church kindred church , dot org . That's where we fellowship . Or if you're in Oscars area , kings Cross .

Oscar Navarro 58:36

KX dot church , and then , of course , Mike's church .

Emeal Zwayne 58:39

Yeah , and compass dot org .

Mark Spence 58:41

I think we're compass to come to church and then cross , cross , pointing them beaches where I go , where cross point HP and yeah , we've got Pastor Bruce coming in to the studio for a podcast .

Emeal Zwayne 58:52

Yeah , we're excited to have them All . Right , friends , we hope you enjoyed that with our brother , mike Fibarez . Don't forget to check out tough questions , dvd course evidence , study Bible and Living Waters podcast mug all at livingwaterscom . And don't forget to comment and all that good stuff and send us emails at podcast at livingwaterscom , give us ratings and all that good stuff . I said that I'm saying thanks for joining us . Friends , we'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast where Ray , mark and Oscar have no idea what they are doing mostly true .