The logic of the scripture is clear . Think of a passage like Deuteronomy , chapter 6 . And there's a passage that Christians will understand with the ring of the familiar , but I don't think they often pause to understand what the Lord said through Moses to Israel . There , the children of Israel who are after the generation of rebellion are getting ready to enter the land of promise .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd you'll recall that God speaks through Moses and says after the re-giving of the Ten Commandments he said when your son comes to you in days to come , say what are the meaning of the statutes in these commandments . Then you shall say to your son and then he speaks to the diligence that Israel's parents are going to have to teach their children . And it says and you're going out and you're coming in , and you're standing up and you're sitting down . That's a Hebrew way of saying all the time .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , all the time .
Dr. Albert MohlerYou know when you're breathing , when you're not breathing you know you need to be teaching your children the law of God , teaching your children the Word of God , and so I turn back to that text over and over again .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd you know the other sweet thing there is that phrase which comes up again in Joshua , chapter 4 and elsewhere . When your son asks you , in days to come , what is the meaning of these stones , these laws , these commandments , then you shall say to your son Notice the pronoun there your son , this is your responsibility . The future of Israel depends upon one father rightfully answering the question of one son .
Emeal ZwayneThis is a Living Waters breaking news alert . After 50 consecutive years of ministry , Ray Comfort is calling it quits . Along with establishing a 5 million acre banana farm , Ray Comfort is pursuing his lifelong dream of chicken coop building . His new business is called getting you all cooped up .
Ray ComfortOh , that was so good . Oh , that sounds like a dream , seriously .
Emeal ZwayneSo , Ray , you've gone on this new adventure . Banana is a chicken coop .
Oscar NavarroWhat is it ?
Emeal Zwaynewith you and chicken coop , 24 chickens . You just helped Daniel , your son , my son Daniel , Expand his chicken coop , expand his chicken coop . So what was that all about ? I get pictures of this chicken coop .
Ray ComfortIt was just wonderful bonding with my son as we worked on this chicken coop last week for a whole day and making the chickens happy , because chickens like eggs . I don't know if you know that's true . You can put , fry , scramble or boil them and they're good for you . Eggs .
Oscar NavarroHow many chickens does he have ?
Ray ComfortAbout 18 , I think .
Oscar NavarroOh , what a young buck .
Emeal ZwayneAre you going to be influencing him to get more Ray ?
Ray ComfortI would like to surprise him with more , maybe for birthdays and things like that .
Oscar NavarroHow many do you have ?
Ray ComfortRay 24 . One died yesterday .
Emeal ZwayneOh , where are you , sad Ray ?
Ray ComfortOh , I don't have to handle it , sue does . Do you need them ?
Emeal Zwayneall he makes his wife dispose of his dead chickens . Finger licking and things like that . Fried and crispy and tinda . Yes , yeah , you still have the axe up in the coop .
Ray ComfortI used to but I needed that .
Emeal ZwayneWhat will it be ?
Ray Comfortladies . Yes , eggs Chicken .
Oscar NavarroHave you ever had a possessed chicken ?
Ray ComfortYes , yeah , that was what was her name Betty .
Emeal ZwayneWhere'd you get her from Ray .
Ray ComfortOscar Gay .
Emeal ZwayneYou pawn off your possessed chicken , right ?
Oscar NavarroWe did , we thought well okay , so here's what happens when you have , like , an aggressive chicken and you introduce them into a new flock herd I don't know what you call them .
Ray ComfortA herd of chickens ? Yeah , that's not right .
Oscar NavarroA new flock . She's supposed to be at the bottom of the pecking order , but crazy Betty showed up at Ray's backyard and just immediately moved to the top of the pecking order .
Ray ComfortYeah Right , she'd sit right up top and look down on all the other chickens she's still happy . No , we got . You got rid of it and you threw over a farmer's fence . I donated it .
Mark SpenceYou did .
Ray ComfortTo heaven , to the rears .
Mark SpenceTo heaven . Did you kill Betty ? Stop , you killed Betty . I don't remember . Is that the one I donated to heaven ? Or that might be the one I donated to the farmer ?
Ray ComfortYou just put it on the fence .
Emeal ZwayneRay , if you could , because I know you can't in your area , but if you could , would you get a rooster ?
Ray ComfortRooster ? No , because they don't know what the time is . They start crowing at about 3 am . Yeah , they're really annoying .
Emeal ZwayneRoosters are pretty vicious too . Yeah , yeah I don't know why . I'm getting visions of Mark being chased by roosters . Is that a rapindy Mark ? I don't think so . I can see it , though , happening For some reason . Do they taste ?
Ray Comfortlike chicken . The roosters taste like chicken .
Emeal ZwayneMark , when we went to Africa , to you go on down the fence . I don't stunk of that story . Did you kill a chicken ?
Mark Spencetoo , or no ? No , I purchased a chicken for , I think , three pennies . We went to a gas station and they cooked it for us .
Emeal ZwayneIt took like three hours . You're serious , it was really the gas station .
Mark SpenceI was with Dave Zavala .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , dave Zavala .
Mark SpenceI thought you were with me . No , no .
Emeal ZwayneI would not have participated in such a thing .
Mark SpenceHe was haggling over three pennies , I went wow , that is amazing .
Emeal ZwayneDave lives to haggle . Yeah , it haggles to live . Yeah , that's true . Well , friends , here's a comment . This is from Jesus , v 2323 to all you guys . Podcast is great . I feel like it's fresh air . I do long drives throughout Dallas and I'm able to hear your episodes and it keeps my mind occupied for the things of God . Well , cool , the thought of people actually driving on long trips . My cousin Tina , mike , who Tina shout out to Tina . My cousin Mike , cousin , mike , cousin I'm sure there's someone with the last name cousin I'll get a letter from them .
Emeal ZwayneBut my beloved cousin Tina just left me a message the other day . She's on like episode 100 and something and she's just still listening and getting encouraged .
Oscar NavarroThank you , Tina .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , thanks for listening there , tina , but yeah , but she says she listens a lot when she drives what's ? That she can't hear anything .
Oscar NavarroShe listened to it in Braille .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , but yeah , it is encouraging . So thank you for that , our dear friend . Thanks for listening . This podcast was brought to you by Divine Dining Foods from the Bible . This unique cookbook by award-winning chef Lance Nittahara and award-winning filmmaker and author Ray Comfort utilizes foods mentioned in the world's best-selling book of all time . Ray , what is it with you and a cookbook ?
Ray ComfortIt's so tasteful .
Emeal ZwayneTastfully done .
Ray ComfortAnd it really is . It's very classy . Lynn Copeland did a wonderful job .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , it's our editor .
Oscar NavarroYeah , it's really good it is . It does have like a papery finish , though .
Ray ComfortYou can actually scratch and sniff it , but , ray , why are you so random ?
Emeal ZwayneA cookbook .
Oscar NavarroHave you met Ray ?
Ray ComfortComfort 101 things by all means by all means Maybe something . This cookbook has the gospel of it . That's what gives us a taste .
Emeal ZwayneI gave someone your book on panic attacks and they were .
Mark SpenceThey said it tasted terrible .
Emeal ZwayneHe said it was just really impactful .
Ray ComfortOh , this is wonderful , really helped them .
Emeal ZwayneSo and yeah , ray , you're a very random person . All right , friends , don't forget to check that out , along with the Evidence Study Bible and the Living Waters Podcast Mugs . You've heard Oscar talk not long ago about how we're doing newer mugs and stuff like that , so check it out .
Oscar NavarroLimited edition mugs .
Emeal ZwayneGet them now Get them while they're hot . Yeah , and don't forget the Evidence Study Bible all at LivingWaterscom . All right , we're talking about NRB .
Oscar NavarroNERB , I just want to point out that somewhere out there , Dr Albert Mohler is going to give you a call and be like you started my episode talking about chickens and books that you're going to eat .
Yeah , yeah , we interviewed Dr Albert Mohler , and what an experience . First of all , as you're going to hear , during the interview , I was utterly shocked that he does not write out the briefing . I thought for sure his staff writes it out , but no , he doesn't even write it out . I'm sure he has some little notes or something , but he basically goes off the cuff . It's unreal . I'm convinced he has at least three or four brains , because just the brilliance he's sitting here . How long did you guys spend with him ? We had it about 35 , 40 minutes . Oh , but who is Albert Mohler ? Yeah , because for anybody who's , yeah , he's a president of the Southern Baptist Seminary , which is the largest seminary in the world Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and he is an author and a speaker and just a very impactful Christian leader .
Ray ComfortDoes he have chicken ?
Oscar NavarroProbably not , yeah , but my favorite moment in the entire recording is that we're sitting there , we're talking and Dr Albert Mohler , president of the biggest what did you say ? President of the largest seminary in the world , says Augustus , and then I look at .
Emeal ZwayneRay Wait , wait , wait .
Oscar NavarroHe says what he says what Augustus , excuse me , augustus he says Augustus . He says Augustan , and I look at EZ and then he says it again Augustan , and I was like let's go .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , it just shows that someone , even so brilliant , can sometimes get something wrong . Yeah , as you just did , by the way . All right , friends , there you have it Without any further ado , and boy was it encouraging . I'm sure it will be to you as well . Here is our dear brother , dr Albert Mohler . Well , friends , as you can tell by the background noise , yes , we are still at the NRB .
Emeal ZwayneEarlier I was calling it a bit of a zoo . It's a bit of a blessing , and that we get to interact and connect with a lot of people , but it's also a bit busy , as you can tell . But I'm happy to say that we were able to grab hold of someone who's extremely busy . He's no stranger to many of you , our listeners , because I'm sure you've heard him on the briefing we have with us today , dr Albert Mohler . Dr Mohler , it's such a blessing to have you here with us today . Thank you , it's great to be with you . Yeah , thank you for your ministry and for the ways through which you've allowed the Lord to use you . And not only do you host the briefing , which , like I said , most of our audience would be familiar with , but you're obviously also an author , you're an international speaker , and is it right ? The ninth president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary .
Dr. Albert MohlerYes , and just completing 30 years in that role , wow 30 years amazing .
Emeal ZwayneI read somewhere you were in your 30s when you took the role .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , so add 30 to that and you've got pretty much where you're at we got your age .
Emeal ZwayneWow . Well , what a blessing , and obviously I mentioned that you're an author as well . You've written such books as the Gathering Storm , tell me , the story of Jesus he is not silent , the conviction to lead , and many others . By the way , how many books is it now ?
Dr. Albert MohlerI don't really know . That's an interesting question .
Emeal ZwayneI haven't really added them up . You know , you're like Ray Comfort he hit , he's over a hundred now , so he's just he stopped counting yeah well , that in itself is an amazing number .
Dr. Albert MohlerIt's a long path of faithfulness there , for anybody who hasn't read any of his books .
Oscar NavarroIf I can recommend one to you , which my favorite one , it was convicted to lead and it kind of gets into the story a little bit about you becoming the president of the seminary . My biggest advocation for this book and what I can say is you know , when I work in finance I was . I was blessed to be a part of a leadership program and they brought guys in from MIT and Stanford to help us develop as leaders and with all of the books that I got to read in that program and all of the seminars that they had me attend your book wasn't in it , but I read it afterwards and if I was gonna recommend one book on leadership , it would be convicted to lead .
Dr. Albert MohlerThat's incredibly kind , thank you , and the second addition to that book is coming out in September .
Oscar NavarroOh really .
Dr. Albert MohlerBecause of some of the events that have taken place in the culture , yeah , in social media , just one thing , and then lessons from the , the entire chaos of the last three or four years with COVID and everything else massive challenges to leadership and I think , once again , the only leadership that matters is conviction leadership , yeah , I mean .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , that's great you know , dr Mueller , I wanted to ask you I mentioned the briefing already that has had such a massive impact . I'm blown away that you do this thing daily , and the main reason why I'm blown away is because of the quality of the production . And then you combine that with the fact that it's daily . I don't know how you do it . You know we do . We do a couple podcasts a week and that's a lot . But do you write those as your staff write them ? They're just so well done Well .
Dr. Albert MohlerI appreciate that they're not written at all . I'm doing it entirely extemporaneously every single time .
Emeal ZwayneSeriously .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , there's . There's no script , there be no time to develop one . I sometimes don't know exactly what issues I'm going to discuss when I sit down to record in the studio . Yeah , it's , because events happen sometimes right up until we end up . You know recording , yeah , and so I did live national radio for a decade .
Mark SpenceOkay , and there's no script for that .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , and I kind of and , by the way , I use very few notes when I preach I just I seek to to operate without a manuscript .
Emeal ZwayneReally , and for the briefing , I just have to have you always preached like that or did that ? Is that something that came later on it ?
Dr. Albert Mohlerdeveloped . Just , you know , over time I was more dependent on you know . Some notes in the beginning , yeah , and there's nothing wrong with having them , especially if you know you're citing something .
Emeal ZwayneYeah .
Dr. Albert MohlerYou know , have a reason for you know . Some organizational reminders there .
Mark SpenceYeah .
Dr. Albert MohlerBut the point is is that I don't find it most effective to be tied to something that's written before I'm gonna do it .
Oscar NavarroYou know , something I love about the briefing , dr Mohler , is I want to stay up to date on the culture and what's going on . I just don't have the time to hop on to all of the websites to follow all of the things , and something that's incredible and to know that it's not written is how concise yet thorough you are in such a short period of time . On the briefing . It really it's like if you are , if you've got a short period of time and you want to be up to date . It's a great resource for that . So thank you for for your work .
Dr. Albert MohlerWell , thank you for that word . You know , sometimes I feel like I just drone on on things because , because some of these issues are so big , sure , and I want Christians to be thinking about how to think christianly about these issues . And you know , the world's not throwing as many small issues these days , they're all the big ones , yeah , and that tells us something about the times in which we live . There . There are very few small skirmishes Now . Everything is a pretty big issue .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , yeah , for sure
you know . I wanted to ask you , as as the president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary , which is one of the largest seminaries in the world , how would you describe the current state of the Christian academic world ?
Dr. Albert MohlerWell , all those words are loaded , aren't they ? Christian and academic in world , and so I think the biggest problem is not whether or not these institutions are academic . There's certainly some questions there , but by and large they're very academic . The question is whether they're very Christian .
Ray ComfortYeah .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd I think we have a great sift going on right now . We're about to find out who's going to stand . Just to take the LGBTQ issues alone , you're going to see massive capitulation , and it's a reminder to us that vast cultural shifts often come on unpredicted issues . So if you were , you know , sitting in an evangelical strategy room 40 years ago , you wouldn't have come up with this as the issue Right . But here we are , and even 15 years ago you wouldn't think that we're at the level of , you know , people denying that there's an inherent creational distinction between male and female . We're in a society that wants to say a boy's a girl and a girl's a boy .
Dr. Albert MohlerOkay , so that was not something that could have been foreseen just a matter of decades ago . Not so much in that people wouldn't make the argument that's pretty old in human history , but they would have cultural traction and gain maximum cultural momentum . That's a very different thing . The challenge to Christian higher education is how in the world to hold to Christian truth and remain in that world of academic let's just say self-referentialism , because the academic world tries to reference only itself in terms of defining who it is and what an academic institution should look like .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd this means that the dominant elite liberal institutions really set the pace . And you know , it's not just that they do what they do , it's that every little community college wants to look like a little Harvard and the way to do that is , by the way , they're not gonna get Harvard's buildings , and I get Harvard's campus . They're not gonna get Harvard's logo .
Oscar NavarroSo what they try to do is use Harvard's ideas , you know you said something that reminds me of Carl Truman's book the Rise and Fall of the Modern Self , in which he talks about his grandfather coming , coming home from Vietnam war . And if you were to say to his grandpa something in effect of you know , I'm a man living in a woman's body , he would have been like . That doesn't compute in my mind , and yet that's such a familiar phrase and surprisingly acceptable in this modern age .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , you know . By the way , one of the one of the issues before you get to male and female there , the I am a formula is something that is extremely new .
Mark SpenceNo .
Dr. Albert MohlerBecause Throughout all of human history , you were told who you are . Your parents told you who you are , your tribe told you who you are and increasingly , as I say as a boy , it was not just my parents told me who I am , such as that . My extended family told me who I am and teachers told me who I am and , by the way , they were all agreed on that . But it was that a sweet , gospel-minded , bible-believing local church told me who I am . So the people around me did not say look , you're on an endless quest to try to discover who you are . Instead , it is like Luther's small catechism for children .
Dr. Albert MohlerYou know , here's who you are . God made you little one .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , you know , dr Mohler , my dad . He's 112 . He is right now . By one website's account , he's one of the . He's the oldest man in America and he's gotten older , so his mind isn't all fully there . But he doesn't even really know about what's going on in our world today the whole LGBTQ insanity , the whole transgenderism , the wokeness , all of that . It's just not even so . It's almost like taking someone and transporting them from history and bringing them here . He was born in 1911 .
Dr. Albert MohlerYou know incredible .
Emeal ZwayneAnd so Ray and I constantly step back and we say what is going on , like we're conscious of what's happening . But it's surreal . You have adults playing make-believe , playing dress-up , and everyone's going along .
Dr. Albert MohlerIt's like the Emperor's got no clothes and you know it'd be bad enough if that's where this issue stayed . But that's not where this issue stays , because any issue like this gets downshifted generationally . So right now , obviously Christians should be concerned about a middle-aged man confused about this issue . Yeah right , but there's a far greater tragedy when this confusion is being ideologically forced down on nine-year-olds and 13-year-olds and 17-year-olds , that is . That's really a form of the well , let's just say it's a form of abuse .
Mark SpenceAbsolutely .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd one of the things , by the way , that Christian parents always need to keep in mind is that God put you there to tell you who your children are , to tell your children who they are and to point them to Scripture , to know who they are . The Creator to know who they are . The Redeemer to know who they are . The idea that we're on this endless personal quest is going to end in absolute disaster for all of humanity . Yeah , we're not capable of this .
Emeal ZwayneWe're not competent , Right . And you throw on top of that the fact that these younger generations aren't being taught to think critically , and you combine that with the pressure that's being put on them from adults , it's like what's the next generation going to be like ?
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , this is a very , very odd thing . So you mentioned that a lot of them don't think critically . I think you could argue that most human beings without human history have at least tried not to have to think very critically . That's just a part of the human condition .
Oscar NavarroIt's like you know me .
Dr. Albert MohlerWell , and it's also you know , most human beings , most human history , lived lives in which they didn't have to face conversations about these issues it was a received world .
Dr. Albert MohlerIt was an inherited world , it was a defined world , so this is something new in terms of it being like everybody's responsibility , but the fact is that critical thinking is now defined by this culture as holding any claim of absolute truth as oppressive , and so , in other words , critical thinking is something that Christians have to capture and understand . This is a part of the discipleship of the mind .
Dr. Albert MohlerI was one in the generation so shaped by Francis Schaefer and others about how to think as a Christian and I fear that I was actually a part of a generation that was better taught than so many young people now and what they're receiving even in supposedly Christian churches . I think it's a sad commentary that evangelicals kind of achieved a certain consensus in the 1970s that in the 60s we're going to have to think seriously as Christians . We're going to have to actually teach young people some serious Bible . We're going to have to help them think in novel and novel terms and now it's kind of like gone back to .
Oscar NavarroRoper Room .
Emeal ZwayneYeah
.
Oscar NavarroPractically speaking , what wisdom would you give , what counsel would you give to parents ? Because the reality is that it's obviously happening in the public school system , but it's even beyond that . I mean , someone just sent me a video clip of , like this cartoon of the Transformers , and there was a robot telling a little girl that she's not a boy , not a girl , and the little girl was like man , that that you know you have to be a boy or a girl in my world . And then the robot says something like oh , that's so strange and so weird . And so my point is that is that this narrative is all around us . So what ? What advice do you have to parents out there that want to give their children a biblical worldview and to prepare them for for the world around them ?
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , my advice is do it . You know , that'd be my first advice in an admonition and very strongly so .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , I mean , do it , you know what you need to do . Do it , you know . Christians need to recover the biblical conception of the fact that the family is to be the first school , the first church and the first government . And parents are God ordained to fulfill that role in the first school and in the first church and in the first government . And so parents just just do what Christians have understood Christian parents were responsible to do from the very beginning . It's not like this is new stuff .
Dr. Albert MohlerYou know I tell people look , Christian moms and dads had to get 15 year old kids ready to go out on the streets of Rome . When you had prostitutes advertising you know they're in the marketplace and when you had emperor worship as dominant in the age and when , when you had pornography , you know , as a matter of public art , supposedly , in other words , christians , christians in early centuries had to figure this out . It's not like . This is entirely new .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , a lot of people think that , yeah , that it is new . Obviously it takes new shapes and forms and technology helps it to advance in new and , I think you know , very destructive ways . But , yeah , Christians have been dealing with the common temptations to man throughout the centuries and I think the problem is especially in our day and age is a lot of parents are Christian . Parents are raising their kids by default rather than by design . There's no plan .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah right , and , and you know , you mentioned technology . That's not an irrelevant factor by any means , because it is also true that parents in the home used to define the reality that the child was exposed to , and I wouldn't encourage parents to do that , by the way .
Dr. Albert MohlerBut , I also want to encourage parents to recognize there are more limitations on that than you may recognize , and so you're fighting a much bigger battle and more urgent battle than it may seem . Because you mentioned cartoon characters and all the rest , I will tell you , as a parent and as a grandparent , it's very shocking to know what kind of conversation could go on in a playground .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , unreal .
Oscar NavarroSomebody maybe it was you easy mentioned that this isn't new information in the sense that we've been facing these lies as Christians for the last 2000 years . Larry Hurtado , the historian , does a really good job of explaining what Roman culture looked like in his book to story of the gods , and so that I guess the point is there's nothing new . We've been able to raise children in a godly manner in anti gospel cultures before , and I think what you're getting at here by saying just do it is . One of the things that I talk about often is is the importance of a family liturgy , because if you think that you know why take our kids to church and they're there for 45 minutes and they get their Sunday school download and they go home and then , to your point , they're on TikTok , they're on Instagram , they're playing video games , they're on the park , and if that 45 minutes is your liturgy , you're being out , discipled by the world around you .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , you know it can take many different forms , but the logic of the scripture is clear . Think of a passage like Deuteronomy , chapter six . And there's a passage that Christians will understand with the ring of the familiar , but I don't think they often pause to understand what the Lord said through Moses to Israel . There , the children of Israel who are after the generation of rebellion are getting ready to enter the land of promise . And you'll recall that God speaks through Moses and says , after the re-giving of the 10 commandments , he said when your son comes to you in days to come , say what are the meaning of the statutes in these commandments . Then you shall say to your son , and then he speaks to the diligence that Israel's parents are going to have to teach their children . And it says and you're going out and you're coming in and you're standing up and you're sitting down .
Dr. Albert MohlerThat's a Hebrew way of saying all the time all the time when you're breathing , when you're not breathing you know you need to be teaching your children the law of God , teaching your children the word of God , and so I turn back to that text over and over again .
Dr. Albert MohlerAnd you know the other sweet thing there is that phrase which comes up again in Joshua , chapter four , and elsewhere . When your son asks you in days to come , what is the meaning of these stones , these laws , these commandments , then you shall say to your son notice the pronoun there your son , this is your responsibility . The future of Israel depends upon one father rightfully answering the question of one son .
Emeal ZwayneThat's so good , yeah , and we see that outlined in the Proverbs , you know , and just that example a father instructing his son . You know , I do have a question for you , and this would hit close to home for you as a seminary president with all of these regulations that keep coming down and , short of divine intervention , it's going to keep getting worse how do Christian institutions like seminaries , christian universities and churches survive ? I mean , what do we do when we're commanded to do things that obviously violate scripture , like you have to hire people from the LGBTQ community , or you have to do gay weddings , or what have you ?
Dr. Albert MohlerWell , if the law comes with course of force to say you have to do that , then disband the institution , because the church of the Lord , jesus Christ , is what is central here . Jesus said upon this rock I will build my church , and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . The church is fully empowered to accomplish everything that is assigned to it by the Lord .
Oscar NavarroJesus .
Dr. Albert MohlerChrist Seminaries are an extension of multiple churches , saying you know , we can pool our resources , we can pool our faithfulness in order to train pastors together . If the state says that institution has to be unfaithful , then just kill the institution . So I will say this as the president of what is arguably the largest theological seminary serving the largest evangelical denomination If they say it's compromise or die , then kill it .
I don't think it will come to that for all institutions , for one reason , and that is we are entirely basically just owned and operated by the Southern Baptist Convention and its churches . Our trustees are only the trustees elected by the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention . In other words , we've got nowhere to go if the Southern Baptist Convention does its job .
Dr. Albert MohlerThe other thing is look , let's be really clear . We do not at either the college or the seminary . We do not and have never taken a penny of tax money the moment you take Caesar's money , guess what ? Caesar's means it tells you what to teach . So a lot of Christian academic institutions are just absolutely dependent upon that federal funding through student loans and everything . We never played that game . So they can't even come at us retrospectively and I would say , just stay not only connected to the church but absolutely accountable to the church .
Emeal ZwayneI think that people rule out that thought . I think a lot of times , unfortunately , christian leaders of institutions and churches have this mindset and attitude of well , obviously we have to keep going .
Dr. Albert MohlerI have , especially college and university presidents say that to me and I just have to say no , you don't , I love that .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , and that's the problem , right , it's like no , no , no , obviously we've got to figure away how can we still stay and not compromise . But it always ends in compromise inevitably . If you're not willing to say well , then let it die because we're not going to compromise . God's Word .
Dr. Albert MohlerThat's right , and you know we're about to find out where everybody stands . The great sift that's going on right now is going on so fast . One of the things I write and talk about a lot these days is the notion of social velocity , because you know through most of your history that velocity has been really slow . You know , basically you did what your father did , who did what his father did , who did what his father did . You're a blacksmith because your whole family's made up of blacksmiths .
Dr. Albert MohlerYour last name's blacksmith , Right exactly Exactly , but social velocity now is so fast that within a seven-year period in the United States . So whatever you think about the polls there at least I think we know intuitively they're onto something here . When , in within a seven-year period , when we went from 70% of Americans saying same-sex marriage should not be legal to 70% of Americans saying same-sex marriage should be legal , well , those by definition are kind of the same people , and so that just shows you how the velocity of social change has utterly transformed our times , which is one of the reasons why people who think they're up-to-date need to understand that up-to-date is , in terms of addressing these issues , a fatal assumption .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , no , yeah . Doctor , let me ask you this In light of the growing hostility toward Christianity in America , do you personally sense that there is going to be nuanced persecution coming our way ?
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , it's interesting the way you put it nuanced persecution . That's sort of like you know , liquid ice , you know . In other words , I don't know what , I know what you mean . And I think what you mean is we're not at this point honestly talking about persecution as in the scripture , which says you've not yet been persecuted .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , that's exactly what I mean . I mean we're seeing forms of it here and there , but I'm talking in a major sense .
Dr. Albert MohlerNo , no , I get that , and so I just want to say I'm always a little embarrassed in answering this question when I've been in parts of the world where people are dying . That's good . That's good Because of their commitment to Jesus Christ . I think what we're going to face is the loss of social privilege , social status , social standing , our social capital is going to be completely cashed out . We've got to raise children who are going to pay an enormous price professionally , personally , relationally and culturally just for identifying as a Christian in a serious way , and that's a radical reversal of the situation in this country just over the last half century .
Dr. Albert MohlerTo make your point , I think the very organized ways of attempting to marginalize Christians are already very much in play , and so that is a form of persecution . Yes , I just humbly want to be careful with the language I'm saying . They're going to try to marginalize silence . They're going to make it as costly as possible to be a Christian . I don't really foresee the day when armed troops show up at the door of the Calvary Church and say you can't preach the gospel anymore . I think what they're going to do is the professions are going to say you can't be an attorney anymore . I think the prestigious universities are going to say you can't be a student here anymore . Some neighborhoods are going to say you can't live here anymore , and so that's going to be an enormous cost .
Emeal ZwayneYou know . Sorry , oscar , I just want to say this and I'll let Oscar jump in but not long ago I spoke at a pretty prestigious Christian university and I wondered after I left there about the name and how that's going to look on the students' resumes as things get worse for Christians . Because it had a very pronounced Christian name and I just saw , man , how's that going to look ? Oh , you graduated from such and such Christian university . Right , we've got a problem .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , you know , that's a brilliant thought and it's something that I'm watching right now . So , for instance , the New York Times had a big story about a Christian college historic Christian college in New York that had fired a couple of people over LGBTQ issues . And the interesting thing is and this is a phenomenon you're going to watch the press immediately went to the LGBTQ alumni of that college , who had already organized and so you can see .
Dr. Albert MohlerOkay , so this is an effort just to try to shame this college , supposedly with its own alumni . Now I want to say in defense of any college okay , doesn't mean to say this , just like of any pastor , there are going to be some people who are former members of your church for whom you are simply not responsible , except for the former part . Yeah right , you know , and there are some graduates of every institution that know if you're of any size . But it depends upon what does the institution believe , what does it teach and what does it hold without reservation , without hesitation . And that's where I think you're going to see an awful lot of these schools where people are going to say you know you're hurting my professional chances when the school takes this stand . You know you are discounting the value and this can get delitigation you're discounting the value of my degree when you take that kind of stand . And we're about to find out where everybody is . It's not only the schools , but the alumni of those schools . We're about to find out where they are too .
Oscar NavarroWe're talking a lot about all of these cultural issues , whether it's LGBTQ , education . Students , as the conservative in me , could get scared and hopeless . But the Christian has hope . Talk about because you are on the front lines . I feel like you , better than most , know the dangers . How , in the midst of all of the news that's coming out , do you have ? How does the gospel inform your hopefulness in the midst of all this ?
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , this is where I want to put two words and say they're not identical , but like a Venn diagram , they overlap a lot . And so use the word conservative and the word Christian . People don't recognize that both Christianity and conservatism are based upon the understanding that things are about to get worse , and that is simply because of the effect of sin and the consequences of God's judgment . And so the whole essence of the word conservatism comes down to conserve , and it's the attempt to conserve the principles , the first things , the truths that are endangered by those who want to unravel them . So you're trying to conserve them . You're trying to conserve marriage , conserve the family , conserve religious liberty .
Dr. Albert MohlerChristianity is based in a biblical understanding and I think it was Augustine , the early church father , who really got to this more clearly than anyone else which is the world is about to get worse . So preach the gospel , raise your children in the nurturing admonition of the Lord and buy a , buy a piece of property and Plant seeds and show the glory of God , because Things can get a lot worse in the society and actually get better for the church and better for the family , simply by contrast .
Dr. Albert MohlerThe issue is , we've got to see what is the coming thing and what is the passing thing and make certain that we are Staking our lives on the coming thing , not the passing thing .
Oscar NavarroYeah , and I love , I love to look at that , love
the . You mentioned Augustine , and I love to look at the early church because , as mentioned before , they faced an anti-Christian culture in Rome , right Like they were at one point after Constantine . They were kicked out of the public sphere , they were kicked out of education , and yet it was in the midst of that . Let's call it social persecution . Yeah , in the midst of that social persecution is where the church Exploded because the gospel , faithful Christians Proclaimed the gospel and raised their children in the midst of that . And so in some ways yeah , you mentioned sifting , and I think of first Peter , the refining by fire One of the the hopes is is one of the good things is , while the fire hurts and it's burning up the impurities , it also creates something way more refined and , dare I say , way more potent . And so the hope , I think , comes from from history , and it comes from a promise , of course , of our savior in which he says the Gates of hell not prevail right and the .
Dr. Albert Mohlerthe scripture gives us an Understanding of the unfolding of history , so it's not like we're left in a great mystery , as to how the story ends right with , but with creation , fall redemption and new creation . We know two things in a Christian eschatology . We know number one this world is going to pass away . We also know that in the kingdom of Christ all things will be made well . We're never promised that in this world all things will be made well .
Ray ComfortWe're told the opposite .
Dr. Albert MohlerNow and , and it's gonna be a fight to the very end . You know , you read the book of Revelation yeah , things just don't get better and better . That was the old Protestant liberalism of the 20th century I mean , which , by the way , was pretty much destroyed by two World Wars in the Holocaust . I one other thought here for a Christians is that there , this is really good biblical argument For finding hope , first of all , of course , in the gospel of Jesus Christ , but finding hope in the fact that God has given us creation order gifts , yeah , which we are to use in the kingdom of Christ in this world as it's visible , and then to show the glory of God .
Dr. Albert MohlerWhat obedience to the scripture looks like so we raise our children in the urgent admonition of the Lord . By the way , if you're gonna raise them , you got to have them .
Ray ComfortThat means we honor marriage .
Dr. Albert MohlerWe go back to the first principles . We live by the first things . We go back to Genesis one and Genesis two . And then , you know I think of Jeremiah , because I mentioned Augustine one of the heresies that Augustine had to face in the late Roman Empire Was Christians who said none of this matter , so don't plan any more crops right , yeah , you know .
Dr. Albert MohlerAugustine came back Actually , the Pallagians made that argument and Augustine comes back and says no , plant the field . That's what God's commanded us to do , right and ? And , by the way , there are many good things to planting a field . Number one there's an organic reality there . Number two you get to feed your family . Number two you keep the kids busy . But beyond that the other thing is remember that that's in the Old Testament . Even in exile , through the prophet Jeremiah , the Lord says Buy a field , yeah , plant it yes .
Dr. Albert MohlerThere's good work for us to do yeah amen . Love that .
Emeal ZwayneI have one more question before we wrap up here . You know , while we can never sacrifice Truth on the altar of unity , we've seen what's happened in the ecumenical world . We don't want that as Christians , but at the same time , how do we promote unity , especially in these times , between churches , christians who may differ on secondary , tertiary issues , for the sake of the gospel and influencing the culture ?
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah , it's becoming increasingly difficult for the reason that , you know , christians Often do not think about what is the necessary ground of doctrinal agreement . Yeah , for us to do X or Y , like if you want to be a member of my church , you got to go with the entire confession of faith . If we're talking about going to share the gospel with people in a foreign land , I can . I can do that with someone who may disagree with me on eschatology .
Mark SpenceYeah again .
Dr. Albert MohlerWe're living in an age of such theological apostasy . The problem is that there are a lot of churches that , frankly , are the enemies of the gospel right , and so I honestly think that this is one of those situations in which pastors and Christians have to have Just constant vigilance and and constant attention . But the unity of the church , of the church of the Lord Jesus Christ , is in Christ .
Dr. Albert MohlerYeah so we do not achieve that unity . It is accomplished by Christ . The question is how do faithful churches honor Christ in such a way that we will find gospel churches doing the right kind of gospel work ? And I do think the what you talked about is kind of a nuanced persecution . I do think the the context in which we are now is that , pretty fast , we're figuring out who's standing by the gospel . We're pretty much figuring out which churches are ordered by scripture . Yeah , we're finding out the hard way , but we're finding out .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , that's great . Well , dr More , thank you so much for joining us today . I mean this has been pretty much fellowship for us . I know I'm walking away edified . I know Oscar is as well . Thank you again for just standing on the front lines and for fighting and being an example to so many of us , because those examples are getting fewer and fewer , unfortunately , and so we're grateful for you . We know there's the briefing . Is there any anywhere else that people can connect with you ?
Dr. Albert MohlerWell , the entire website , albert Miller , calm the briefings five days a week . We also I also did the program thinking in public , where I'm in conversation with people I think Christians ought to to think about now , and sometimes that means People who are certainly not Christians Hmm , yeah , just to get their ideas out there , and I Think that's one of the fun things that Christians can do . It's one thing that Christian parents can do with their kids , yeah , and that is what's Christians thinking and say well , how faithful was that ? Hmm , what can we learn from that ? Here's a clash of worldviews . We're not afraid of that . We don't understand what's going on there . We want to prepare you for that ?
Emeal ZwayneYeah , that's great . Well , thanks again for joining us and again , I hope we get the privilege to connect again with you in the future . I'm gonna count on it , Thank you . I Love meeting brilliant people , thank you , who , unlike Oscar , are also Godly people who demonstrate that in their lives . You know , I recently saw a post by dr Mohler where he called his wife magnificent Mary , and he was just being very sweet about her . It was , I think it was her birthday in his post , and I love that . Men that are not so busy With the master's work , that they're too busy for the master , and and that's evidenced in the way that they love their family and Others in the morning he wakes up and is like it's June 20th 2023 .
Oscar NavarroHere is your coffee .
Emeal ZwayneOh , mark , the briefing is pretty brilliant , isn't it ?
Mark Spenceit is . It's about 24 to 25 minutes long and I don't know how he keeps up with it , but it's every day , monday through Friday . He does take a , I think , a month off sometime during the year yeah , to tend to his chickens He'll probably get some now .
Emeal ZwayneYeah , ray , I think people hear dr Mohler and they heard what we discussed with him and how he just kind of comes up with those things on the spot . He has to because the news has happened so fast . But we're all so different and I think sometimes people are Tripped out by how quickly you can write a book . I mean , you've written over a hundred , is it ? An urgency to get an urgency to get it done , or do you enjoy the process ?
Ray ComfortIt's an urgency to get it done and I enjoy the process .
Emeal ZwayneYou had your talking points given deep thoughts with a rake on . But , ray , seriously , what is behind that ? Your prolific Kind of approach to writing ?
Ray ComfortI hated writing when I was in school . I was in English , I don't , I just scraped past past English . Yeah , and if didn't pass English , you just didn't move on . He didn't graduate , and . But when I became a Christian , I had something to write about . I think that's it .
Emeal ZwayneThat's it , that's a passion and and that thought of the outcome and the repercussions of doing that people being touched . Yeah , that's good .
All right , france , we hope you enjoyed that wonderful interview with dr Albert Mohler . Don't forget divine dining foods from the Bible the evidence study , bible and living waters podcast mug all living waterscom . Thank you for joining us . We'll see you here next time . Did you just yawn ?
Ray ComfortRay , I saw Oscar yawn and he started me off .
Emeal ZwayneOh , I'm just thinking we're done . Contagious young is being what ?
Ray Comfortfour hours podcast .
Emeal ZwayneWe've done a lot of podcast . It's 9 am . Yeah , all right , friends . Once again , thank you for joining us . We'll see you here next time on the living waters Podcast , where we have no idea although dr Albert Mohler has many ideas what he's doing we have no idea what we're doing you .